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[PMK]

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/21116/mm709-fairacre-ii

Described in the advert as a Thames Luxury Cruiser, 30" length, but I've opted to enlarge the overall size by a factor of 50%, making the overall length 45" x 11"beam.
In case anyone is interested, I painstakingly scanned each bulkhead using an Epson 3-in-1 printer. With the printer software commands, then able to make the appropriately-sized printout. Each printout then pasted to 6mm ply and cut with the bandsaw. A little weight was skimmed from each b/head, removing most of the centre portions with the fret saw.
Basically, the (now enlarged) hull will remain as per the plan, but the superstructer may well end up different. I've a few idea that I'd like to try, but otherwise just making it up as I go along. The power plant will be a MMB900 motor with appropriate ACTion ESC, possibly running on 18 volts. Mark from MMB is already working on the custom-sized M5 propshaft, and our very own Bluebird has suggested that I try running a 3-blade 40mm prop.
Here're a couple of photos on the buildboard so far...

[DickyD]

Looking good dude, nice to see you using that workshop. 

[barryfoote]

A good clean start, but that workroom is far too tidy.....

[ACTion]

Even the vaccuum cleaner is spotless. A model to watch - I gather there are some unusual things planned..................
DM

[DickyD]

A good clean start, but that workroom is far too tidy.....

You think thats too tidy Barry, I have photos of the rest of the workshop that would make you really envious.

[Youngat65]

Can't see any tea-pot there PMK trust you are well
                             Cheers
                                   Bob

[PMK]

Thanks, Dicky. Nice to know that you're still with us, in spite of all your recent traumatics. Keep on keeping on, my man.
Baz: I have one of those Proxxon table saws, similar to yours, and as you know the exhaust port chucks out a heck of a lot dust - as too does the band saw. It's just by luck that the vacuum cleaner nozzle fits snugly into both ports, thereby saving me agro of using the dustpan and brush.
Bob: you won't see that teapot because I don't drink the stuff. You and your XYL will be the first to use the thing if you decide on another visit. Am as well as can be expected, under the circumstances - thanks for asking.
DM: Forgot to say thanks for the self-locking tweezers. I'm not sure how I managed without them all this time.

Quickie update:
I had a chat on the blower with a gent by the name of Simon from PropShop. He has suggested that I go with a 50mm or 55mm 3-blade prop, making sure that I leave at least 1/8" clearence between the prop and the hull. It means I only get one chance of drilling the angle for the propshaft just right. Not a job that I'm looking forward to.

[ACTion]

Quickie update:
I had a chat on the blower with a gent by the name of Simon from PropShop. He has suggested that I go with a 50mm or 55mm 3-blade prop, making sure that I leave at least 1/8" clearence between the prop and the hull. It means I only get one chance of drilling the angle for the propshaft just right. Not a job that I'm looking forward to.

That's much more the size you'll need. I don't think Bloobs has handled one of those 900 motors yet, do you?

Ref the hole; now that I've persuaded you that s/l tweezers are useful, how about a rat-tail file? I have a few of my old Grandpappy's, one of which is approx 8mm in diameter and almost as coarse as he was..............it's just the job for "adjusting" shaft holes.

Verso is now OK BTW - who left the rear interior light on for a week, then? Those AA guys are pretty good.

DM

[Colin Bishop]

Shaft holes.......?

[ACTion]

Yep, Admiral - as in "the hole(s) through the keel or hull where the shaft tube(s) fit(s)".
'Fraid my nautical technospeak doesn't run to the exact word - if there is one.
If there is then it's probably one of those words that some clever XXXXXX will imagine another word in front of and have me keel-hauled for moral turpitude...........again..............
DM

[Colin Bishop]

Sorry Dave, I'm a bit deaf - must have misheard you.....

[DickyD]

 

[PMK]

Ref the hole; how about a rat-tail file? ..........it's just the job for "adjusting" shaft holes.

Mate, is your Grandpappy still with us? In which case, tell him I appreciate the offer of the rat tails, but in the meanwhile I've found an alternative way (read much more professional way) of doing it.
I've just had a very, very informative natter on the blower with our man Bloobs. Basically he's telling me to quit being such a prat and referred me to this:

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7668.0

From within that link is all the info. that anyone should need - especially if you concentrate on photos #10, #11, #12 and #19. It's a simple case of first cutting the keel at the approximate location of the propshaft, then gluing a doubler either side of the cut, making sure to allow for a bit of play in which to adjust the shaft for the exact angle prior to epoxying the thing in place. It's miles easier doing at this stage as opposed to guessing/drilling the hole after the hull has been skinned.
I know that Bloobs is following this thread; I suddenly feel 1000% more confident knowing that he's looking over my shoulder, ready to freely help with all his know-how.

Mr Bish: Your mind is even muckier than mine.

[John W E]

hi ya Dude, it was good to chat on the phone with you this afternoon  

looking at the pics of your boat and your workshop, I am sure you have photoshopped that workshop from a magazine - not envious of your workbenches much!!!!! nice n clean man....

Right, just an observation - me not knowing the plans - so this is just guess work.   On the original sized drawings, does it show an intermediate stringer (a bit of square wood) in between the keel and your outer chine?

If it doesnt it may pay you to put one in on your model - on each side of the keel - with it being 50% bigger.   Also one from the deck edge to the chine stringer.

This will enable you to reduce the skin thickness which you cover the hull with - therefore making the  hull a lot lighter.

With regard to the 900 motor, I am always a bit dubious when you have to shove 24 volts into a motor to get it to do 13,000 rpm!   I much prefer a motor of the Mtroniks viper 600 range which will do 15,000 rpm on 12 volts and it will push your boat along quite happily  O0PMK.

Did you manage to get your plastic props sorted out?   Also your pin drill?

aye
bloobs

[ACTion]

With regard to the 900 motor, I am always a bit dubious when you have to shove 24 volts into a motor to get it to do 13,000 rpm!   I much prefer a motor of the Mtroniks viper 600 range which will do 15,000 rpm on 12 volts and it will push your boat along quite happily  O0PMK.

What? On a straight-drive in a four foot hull with a 3bl x 50mm prop? You is winding me up, my man. Dat 600 mo'ah is gonna be about as 'appy as a very un'appy fing in a miserable place on a sad day, innit? It's gonna take a shedload of amps, too. Da boat is a smooth cruiser not a crude bruiser - it is torque what is da meaningful fing 'ere, Bloobs my man. Respect for Sir Isaac an' his laws - and Mr Ohm and his, too.

I reckon on 18v that thing will fly anyway; I'd start with 12v if 'twere mine.

PMK - Gramps left us in 1978, sad to say.
DM

[PMK]

Bloobs, to answer your question regarding those stringers, the original plan calls for just the ones that you see in the above photos. But now that you mention it, I reckon it's not such a bad idea to maybe add one more between each side of the keel and outer chines - especially now that each bulkead is placed farther apart. The hull will be skinned with 1.5mm ply so adding the extra stringers makes perfect sense. Thanks for the heads-up.
I'm not sure how best to notch the grooves for the added stringers at this juncture. I have one of those Dremel-type Proxxon drills with came included with several cutting disc. Maybe I could use that to gently make those notches where needed (unless you have a better solution, of course).
Although, just for the record, the hull is already surprisingly strong with just the deck edge stringers and chines in place. Nevertheless, I shall seriously consider your suggestion - even if it's only to allow the outer skin to come into contact with more surface area/stringer material (if you get my drift).

Regarding your other questions, I found a nifty pin drill on the Cornwall Models site. Also, I did after all manage to find the appropriate rudder/rudder post from the same place. I ordered the drill/rudder at the same time as the mini palm planer.
Unfortunately, the link that you PM'ed me regarding the props were for M4 threads, which is a bit of a bummer because I need M5 size. Hence I'm still looking for a source of plastic ones.
Thanks once again for your help and advice.
By the by... Workroom photos were not Photoshopped. Just bog-standard 38mm kitchen countertops and cheapo kitchen cupboards. The one nice luxury is the insulation material behind the wall/floor/ceiling panels. Peter HS93 recommended "Superquilt" insultion from Screwfix. A tad more expensive, but well worth every penny.
Besides, what's so bad about your own workroom anyhow? From where I'm sitting it looks nice and snug in there. Some nice quality works emanates from that shop of yours - makes most of us dead jealous.


Mave:
Ref Verso: See?... I told you it was the battery didn't I?
A? A?
And yes - I'm hearing you regarding beginning with a 12v supply.

[ACTion]

PMK
Why not ask MMB to make you two prop shafts to fit the tube? Same O/A diameter and thread at the motor end but one each M4 and M5 threaded at the prop end? Saves mucking about looking for M5 plastic props.
Bluebird
In all seriousness, that 900 and a large prop will be a much better choice for the model than a smaller one revving its nuts off. Current draw on 12v isn't going to be much more than two or three amps, yet the power will be there to plane if required.

AA used to stand for Automobile Association until they went commercial and ended up trying to mend everything, including John Cleese's bank balance. Any other connotations are strictly coincidental. 

DM

[DickyD]

Dont know what size plastic props you are looking for dude.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/plasticm5.html

[Roadrunner]

Perhaps its worth speaking to model slipway they sell 40mm props in M5 thread with there club 500 model im not sure if 40mm props are what you require but they have a sorce for them i expect.

The other option is to take the size prop you want in an M4 thread ( since you can get most sizes easily) re-drill and 'tap' the hole to an M5 thread like i have in the past.

Either that or check out the prop shop

[PMK]

DM: Too late - Mark's propshaft has arrived already with M5 thread. I'm gonna go with what I have. Besides, I just ordered out a cheapo set of metric taps and dies, so I guess I could re-thread one end of the shaft if need be.

Dicky: Thanks for the link. I was just yesterday looking at the very same page. I guess when the taps and dies arrive I could do as our Piskie pal suggested and re-thread the prop or the propshaft accordingly.
On reflection I think I was perhaps a tad premature in ordering out the brass 50mm jobby from PropShop (they aren't cheap are they?). I should have first bought a load of cheaper plactic props of varying diameters, number of blades and varying pitches in order to ascertain which prop would be most suitable before buying a brass one.
By the by, in case anyone is interested, Marks propshafts really are the cat's whiskers. Mine has three high-quality bearings (one on each end and another in the centre of the tube). He also made me a custom 'P' frame from brass material which matches perfectly with the outer propshaft diameter.
Highly recommended.

[SteamboatPhil]

Nice work so far Pete, now as a chap who has so far purchased 17 x 900 motors so far (not all for me you understand, but just about every electric straight runner in the south has one in now) with a further 4 being delivered at mayhem, I can say they do the job on any volts, my straight runner will do 12mph on 24 v with a plain 55 (have a look see at Wicksteed)
so you should have no probs 
Simons props maybe a little pricey...but they ain't have bad 

[PMK]

Thanks, Phil.
I'm not too concerned about Simon's props' being a tad pricey; I'd sooner pay a bit extra for good quality. My concern at this stage is deciding on the diameter of the thing. By all accounts, on a boat like Fairacre, there is a lot of difference in performance between, say, 55mm and 50mm. Just a measly 5mm difference can make it a good runner or a poor one (or so I've been told). Simon told me that I should be aiming for a minimum clearance of 1/8" between  the prop' and the keel. This raises another concern: If I set the angle of the propshaft that it allows for a 55mm prop' with the recommended 1/8" clearence, I would be in a bit of a pickle if I later discovered that a smaller 50mm prop' would be the best option. A smaller prop' means that the 1/8" clearance would be greater than that recommended. I believe it's something to do with unwanted cavitation. It would be a heck of job to adjust the angle of the propshaft after it's been epoxied in place.... if you see what I'm trying to say.
I'll keep an eye open for your boats at Wicksteed. Perhaps you could be good enough to post a few pics of your prop' and propshaft, etc., that I might glean some needed info.

[ACTion]

Pete
Cavitation would occur if the tips of the prop were too close to the hull, so if you allow for a 55mm prop then a 50mm one would be less  likely to boil the lake.
DM

[PMK]

Ah, right you are, then. Thanks for that informative snippet.
One other thing that I'd forgotten to take into account was the position of the motor itself. Meaning to say, with a 20-inch shaft, would the limited height inside the motor bay allow me enough room to set the correct angle? Would I have sufficient height above and below the motor thereby allowing the opposite end of the shaft near the rudder to give me enough clearance for a 55mm prop? It turns out that I do. So that's another problem solved.
Thanks again.
Time for another Betahistine breakfast.

[phillnjack]

I Don't know if its of any use , but the boat is a W BATES Starcraft 33.
The Bates boats were built to very high standards and were double diagonal planking.
Their boats were built at chertsey wharf surrey, just below chertsey bridge.
There is still a marina that is owned by Bates, and the old boats built by bates are still regarded as gentlemans boats.
Original full size  boat would of had 2 engines.
Either 1x 6 cylinder petrol (normally morris) and a smaller wing engine in case of emergency.
OR 2 6 cylinder engines giving a semi planning speed for cross channel journeys etc.

Internal seating was always dark green leather, similar color to green of the chesterfield settee's.

There are still many of the Bates starcraft cruiser on the Thames and also throughout the uk and europe.
Even a couple have been advertised that have been shipped to the usa.

The boat your building is from the  1960's to early seventies designs.
I'm sure if you look on the web youl see many starcrat 30ft and 33 foot boats still around.

W Bates & sons, also had a huge fleet of hire cruisers in the early seventies, all a similar type of boat.



phill