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Author Topic: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!  (Read 7436 times)

knoby

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Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« on: June 07, 2011, 02:17:55 pm »

I am going to try and make a BB turrent for my ship but the current issue is I dont know where the hell to start, and if someone could help me with how to install via a video or just lead me through the process.  Thank you for your help!!
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Roadrunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 02:49:18 pm »

You picked quite a subject to ask for help on , shooting bb pellets is not a simple task, there is a thread on here with someone's ship they built with working bb guns but i know the guns were made from CAD plans he drew up and not modifications to a normal bb gun, I'm not sure that even the normal firing mechanism of a bb gun can be used in the same way in a turret given its size, you haven't mentioned what boat your building and scale which would help somewhat on the space you have available to work in.

The other issue you face is spring loaded,( pull back action for each fire on a normal bb gun)  automatic, (battery operated mechanism) or compressed air systems of firing the pellets, playing about with compressed air is not an 'amateur' project given the risks involved to you and other's.

One question I will Ask (and do expect an answer) is why you wish to have the ability to fire bb pellets in the first place, as I'm sure some will agree, with you being new to the forum you bring no credibility with you and for all we know you could want to start shooting others & their boats in some type of malice act, since you would have the ability to load lead pellets as well as plastic, which can do a lot of damage to people and property if not used with respect and in the right manor, that means for display purposes like those the Portsmouth models display team do.

Insurance is also a big question to be answered, are you insured?! Cos if you wish to have active guns you will need it just in-case you do cause an injury!

I won't help any further on the subject without those questions answered as I've seen first hand the damage they can do! 

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DavieTait

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 03:02:26 pm »

I don't think it is legal in any way shape or form to have firing BB guns on any model ( unless you are part of a fully licensed display group ) , it is considered a firearm for legal reasons and you are not allowed to discharge or have in plain sight any firearm in a public place ( all shotguns/rifles and air weapons must be carried in an appropriate carry case and must not be loaded ) . You must be a minimum of 250 yards from any road if you use a shotgun and from memory its the same for an air rifle. It is an offence to fire any type of firearm if members of the public are within range of the weapon ( we had to constantly stop our rough shoots due to dog walkers even though we were on private land and they had no permission to be there , this was long before the Scottish right to roam legislation was passed ).

Best advice is do not attempt it , you could end up being arrested for negligently discharging a firearm in a public place , face a heavy fine possible prison time and the model would 100% be destroyed after court proceedings are finished.

They have combat models like this in America where it is legal , in the UK it's not legal and has been discussed on here several times in the  past.
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knoby

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 03:05:53 pm »

Yes I know I did pick quite the subject, I eventually want to get into a club in which we have RC ship battles and I am just trying to make sure I know what I am doing before I decide to leap into and get sunk lol.  Yes I am insured not that I will need it because I have no will no harm anyone or anything I just am out to attain more knowledge about this part of the hobby.  I ordered plans for the triple barrel BB gun but I was out for some one on one communication to help guide me through the process so to speak. email address removed is my e-mail so we can discuss this off the forum.  

-Adam


***moderators note***
Adam, if you want to discuss this off forum you can ask people to PM you (send you a PM?/IM) to continue to chat.
You can then exchange email addresses by PM if you wish. Publishing email addresses on open forum is not safe for you or your computer. Spambots and other malware crawl around the internet looking for email addresses.

However, discussing this BB gun process may be of interest to others, and could be worth having on forum.
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knoby

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2011, 03:07:51 pm »

I appreciate all of the warnings and such, I have had plenty of training on what to do and what not to do with firearms I am in the service so safety is my number one priority.

-Adam
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 03:30:29 pm »

You dont say where you are based, would this be the US of A? Or the rules and regulations rich UK?!
Hen Long have an electric firing BB system fitted to their tanks which has a fairly short range (25 Metres). This fires the plastic BB pellets, which rapidly loose momentum out beyond 15 metres and would seem a 'sensible' option. I would avoid metal BBs outright.
The Portsmouth Display Team operate at public venues and pursue a 'nothing leaves the model' rule as far as effects are concerned. This has served us well over the years.
Whatever you choose, think 'safety' and think 'what happens in case of radio interference?' Steer your design with that in mind at all times and good luck.
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tigertiger

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 04:49:32 pm »

There is a whole thread on this somewhere else.
Models have thin balsa or tissue paper sides, and RC is in a sealed box.
Models then sink each other.

I think this is a stateside hobby.
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DickyD

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 04:55:10 pm »

Australian I believe. :-))
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Arrow5

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2011, 05:08:57 pm »

This activity is quite well known in USA and Australia.  Our lady contributor Umi may chip in with the American view as she has been active in this part of model boating in America for some years.  Adam you neglected to say which service or country, I guess USA ?
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Roadrunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 06:42:59 pm »

Adam i recived your pm, was just waiting to see if admin would allow this tpoic to go ahead, seeing how its a family forum and kids can copy stuff like this for all sorts of uses, im sure you understand!

But seeing how the mods are happy enough with this subject ( which is a concern) sure we can help in the rigth ways to progress.

what ship are you buiilding and its scale and what would be the 'guns' overal dimension? This will aid in sorting out what you can and cannot do in the space you have.

Get back to us on that im sure i would have worked out some bits for you to read up on with a few suggestions.
 :-))

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Roadrunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 07:27:51 pm »

ok some things to get the 'ye ole' brain cells working...

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/question649.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AEG.gif

This site covers everything you need i would imagine in regards to how the system can be worked to your model,

http://bb_ops.tripod.com/RC_Combat/Hind_Guns.htm
http://www.kutz.com/combat/bbgun.htm

I will C&P most of it for ease to other member's who don't like links  %%

(Image that should be here is at the bottom of page)

''First thing to discuss is the basic operation of a RC Combat BB gun. For this I'll refer you to the above diagram of a typical poppet-valve operated, piston-interrupted, O-ring style BB gun made up of standard 1/4" compression fittings. There are other methods of building and firing the guns, involving slave valves or electronic solenoids, but for the purposes of this article I'll keep the set-up simple.

From bottom to top (which in our case is the direction of gas flow):
You start with a CO2 source, usually a 3.5 or 7 oz tank in 2 gun cruisers or larger and illustrated here, or a CO2 cartridge like those used in commercial BB and pellet guns for smaller boats;
Per the rules of the International Radio Warship Combat Club (IR/CWCC) guns systems are limited to a working pressure of 150 psi, so some sort of commercially manufactured regulator is required to bring the bottle pressure down to that level;
After the gas leaves the regulator it travels via a supply hose, usually of 1/8" inside diameter (ID) but sometimes other sizes, to a distribution manifold (to split the gas among several guns) or to a single gun as in this case;
The supply gas goes to the poppet valve, a Clippard MAV-2 is shown here, which stops the gas flow until the button to the left is depressed, usually by a servo;
The gas then flows past the valve up into the bottom of interrupter assembly via 1/16 ID tubing. Here the gas splits along two paths:
First the gas pushes the interrupter piston up, allowing only the BB sitting on top of this piston to move toward the breach and blocking those in the magazine;
The rest of the gas will travel to the end of the magazine and then travel down the magazine tube and push the other BB's forward toward the interrupter, then flow past them to carry the BB poised on top of the piston up to the Breach;
The BB on top of the pistion will be carried up to the breach, in this case an O-ring compressed between the inner wall of the 1/4" "L" fitting and the end of the barrel;
The BB will be stopped by this compressed O-ring, blocking the gas flow and allowing the pressure behind the BB to build;
Once sufficient pressure has built up the BB will force its way past the O-ring and out the barrel of the gun, hopefully to strike its target ''

PARTS and TOOLS

First, the parts and tools you are going to need:

Parts
CO2 source
Disposable CO2 Cartridge (small boats with 1-3 guns)
Refillable CO2 Tank in 3.5 to 12 oz sizes (larger boats with 3 or more guns)
One Regulator to attach to CO2 source, max 150 pounds per square inch (PSI) output
50 feet 1/8" ID Urethane Hose
50 feet 1/16" ID Urethane Hose
Two Clippard 1/8" Hose Barbs w/ 10-32 male threads per gun
One or Two Clippard 1/16" Hose Barbs w/ 10-32 male threads per gun
One Clippard MAV-2 Poppet Valve per gun
One 1/4" Plumbing Union Tee per gun
One 1/4" Plumbing Union Elbow per gun
One 1/4" Plumbing Union per gun
Several feet of 1/4" OD copper or brass tubing
3 feet each of 1/16", 7/32", 1/4", 9/32", and 5/16" OD Round Brass Tube per gun
1 small sheet of thin brass (1/16" or 1/32" thick)
Piston material - penny nail, brass/aluminum rivet, etc.
1/4" (2-3 coils) of a small spring (large enough to fit over stem of piston)
Teflon Pipe-Tape
Tools
Propane Torch
Solder
Flux
Tube Cutter
Metal Cutting Shears
Drill or Drill Press
Vise or other support for solder work
Lathe (for best results)
How the guns are built varies from person to person, region to region, varying mainly based on the experience level of the battler and the parts available to them. To give you an idea of the different construction techniques I'll refer you to two other sources of information on building your own guns:

I must point out I take no responsibility for the instruction provided as i didnt write them! And anything you do with them, you do at your own risk! so don't come crying to me when it goes wrong!

Hope it helps  :-))
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colin

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 07:31:59 pm »

The BB gun in the tanks is available as a spare part from the suppliers think it was Howes models under tank spares

Regards
Colin
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Roadrunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 07:41:29 pm »

aye but i think he wants a bit more power then 15 foot  :D

But just incase search your local hobby stores for this....

http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/RadioControl/viewProduct.php?ProdID=5286
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knoby

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 09:47:16 am »

I am the good ol Navy best service in my opinion of course, and I am currently in Japan (and yes I will be checking out the laws and what not when it comes to BB guns).   The last thing I need is to do something stupid to mess with my career in the service.  I cant wait to get started building ships, and BB gun turrets i really have been needing a good hobby and here it is.  I am also looking into building a crane to lift my ship up out of the water as well, I need it because there is at least 1ft drop before you get to the water so yea I dont wish to fall in.  Anyone have any good ideas for this, electrical or not it really doesnt matter much to me as long as in functions.  :-)
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wartsilaone

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2011, 10:48:47 am »

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Roadrunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 11:18:17 am »

Quote
With that list of parts that you sent me where can I buy all of those parts and how does it all look like after it is put together?

Taken from my mail box.. i have far to many pm's this morning to reply to individuals!

In truth i have no idea where you can buy these items locally to you.

However a good starting point would be your nearest plumber merchant, builders merchants, Walmart?! or any good DIY home improvement store, these place will no doubt be able to supply you with all relevant raw material and tools to construct such device, when it comes to lathe work, depending on how much is needed, you may be able to source alternate solutions or if you know someone with a lathe that may be able to construct parts for the cost of a pack of beer, unless you have your own then your a lucky SOB!  {-) ( i can't fit a larger one in my workshop  >:-o )

With the CO2 canisters, i expect its best to look, depending on size required at the either the Airsoft guns refill cartridges or paint ball guns Co2 canisters and locate a source for refilling them, either an air compressor, or local garage might be able to help, but you will need to check your laws over that!

AS a suggestion to you, i would advice seeking help from people who do this type of hobby locally to you as they will no doubt be able to help in a more hands on manor as well as offering different solutions or techniques, there is only so much we can do for you over the net. There is nothing like the experience of others ...

Quote
I eventually want to get into a club in which we have RC ship battles and I am just trying to make sure I know what I am doing before I decide to leap into and get sunk lol

Joining a local club would, and i do honestly think the first thing you do, before constructing working guns, each club may have different rules etc and they will no doubt (i hope) know what they are doing and guide you in the right direction, as i said the gun system i posted may not be accurate, as its not my work and so untested by me you could be playing with your life if its wrong!

AS for working cranes.... well that's a whole other topic ( so start one  %%) and unless you are quite clever with the engineering involved with lifting weights, buoyancy with barges, stability counter weights etc etc. Then that's a challenge you may not achieve (easily), but depending on how deep the water is.. do what many of us do put on a pair of waders and get someone shore side to give the model to the guy in the waders to place in the water. Its probably cheaper i know my thigh high waders cost me £20 from my local fishing shop, and my full chest hight ones with life jacket cost me £130. or better yet as some of the older gents do to save bending over, use trolly's to roll there models over the side into the water for drop off and pick up's or use some straps and lowers from the side without bending over!

I have NO idea how much your model may weigh once finished so until its built then these suggestions are all i have for you that are cheap quick and simple! being in the navy im sure your heard of K.I.S.S  :-))
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2011, 12:52:43 pm »


If it's non destructive model boating (ie, target hitting etc.), you could also consider AirSoft guns.

 I was considering mounting one in a Springer disguised as an USS Monitor.... and shooting at paper target in the form of large flags flown from a flagstaff.

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tigertiger

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2011, 01:34:54 pm »

***Topic tidied up

Quit the sniping gentlemen, please.***
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: Turret BB Guns Please help me!!
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 10:22:53 pm »

Adam,

Have a look at this site, may be the answer to all your questions.

http://www.ausbg.org/links.html

You don't indicate where in the world you are ??? so it might be a bit far to travel.  O0 O0
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