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[Geoff]

I'm looking to build a model of this ship in 1/96 scale and am having trouble in locating the hull lines.
 
To clarify:
 
- I recall that a gentleman by the name of "Ron H" had constructed a splendid model and I was able to download from the thread a copy of the bulkheads but clearly there was some distortion in scanning as the weather deck beam of the aft lines was narrower that the weather deck beam of the fore lines (they must be the same amidships). Despite resizing on a copier I still can't get the lines to match as if I have the right beam then the depth is off. Also I don't know the distance between the various bulkheads but my suspicions are that there are a number half bulkhead lines so it's not just a case of a linear division.
 
- I have plans from "Sambrook" purchased many years ago from Maritime Models but have lost the lines part albeit I recall the lines I had were headed as Benbow (sister ship).
 
- A friend also has these plans and kindly scanned the Benbow bulkheads, but they are entirely different from the ones used by RH. There are also some clear inacurate lines with bulges/bumps, so I'm not certain of those plans either and there is no tumblehome showed at all. It's posible these are inside frames but there is a distinct bulge in the bow area which is almost absent on the RH ones?
 
- Does anyone know if the Sambrook plans are still available and/or have copies or any other suggestions where I can obtain the right bulkheads/lines.
 
 
It's all very confusing as I was anticipating a good match but the two plans appear to be completley different. I have started to draw my own based on the RH ones but it's a long process and I'd rather build to exact lines than a guestimate.
 
Thanks in advance for any suggestions that may be forthcoming.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff

[Colin Bishop]

Dave Metcalf has bought out the Sambrook plans range and now sells them although they don't seem to be mentioned on his website.; http://business.virgin.net/metcalf.mouldings/catalogue.htm
Plans for Iron Duke are listed on the hard copy I got from him at a recent show.
Colin

[Pondweed]

To hand I had 3 drawings of hull lines:

A, a 13.5inch battlecruiser (Lion, Princess Royal or Queen Mary)
B, HMS Dreadnought
C, HMS warspite (with hull blisters)

If I was to form a view, I'd say the battlecruisers had more tumbleholme, then it would be Warspite with Dreadnought last.

The 3 hull lines attached in case you don't get any further plan sheets you can have a more informed educated guess.


P.S. There's a book that may be of use to you about the building of a model of the Orion class HMS Thunderer:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1848320590/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=historin3d-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=1848320590

While it's not your ship, the same materials and principles to construction will apply along with all the same fittings such as anchors, funnels, boats, decking, hatches, turrets, etc, will be the same, they are just arranged in a different way.

[Pondweed]

Regards the distance apart each frame is: you have the model length then divide by the number of frames. Simples. Where you may have trouble is if you don't have the side view of the 'lines' sheet.

Though you have a good 90% of the information from the hull sections alone, what you need is a good representation of the ram bow and how the area around the props and rudders was shaped. If yu can't get a bonafide plan, the above book may help here.

Good Luck with the model.

[Bob K]

what you need is a good representation of the ram bow and how the area around the props and rudders was shaped.

Some lateral thinking:-  You could buy an Aifix model of HMS Iron Duke to directly scale aspects not apparent on the hull sections, and how the sections such as ram bow and around props blend together.  A good digital vernier can be very useful, plus the eye can see the blends better on a 3D 'master'.

[Liverbudgie2]

I would suggest that you purchase a set of drawings from the NMM.
A building log and the current location of the model can be found here: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=20253
Please do not try to contact the builder as he is now quite unwell.
LB

[derekwarner]

Confusing.......sorry.......Derek

 

[Geoff]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I was aware of the build blog on Iron Duke and copied the bulkhead plans but on printing they don't match up which is what caused the problem. I also tried dividing the length by an equal amount and they just did not fit. The 6" battery position gives a good location idea but however I played with the plans I could not get a good match.
 
In the end I bought some plans from the Maritime Museum. Total cost was about £88 including postage and handling. I purchased theree plans being the forecastle deck and main deck and sheer plan (which include all the bulkheads). the only problem is they are huge as they are all to 1/48 scale (the museum can only reproduce to the actual size) and some of the plans (not hull length) are about 18 feet long! The only place I can really view them is in the garden from an upstairs window! ha, ha!
 
I would like to comment that the advice and help I got from the NMM was excellent, they were responsive and answered by e-mail virtually overnight.  I ordered them on 4th July and took delivery today which I think is a really excellent service.
 
Yes the price is high but there is an enormous amount of detail and given that the model will take a couple of years to build the cost is not prohibitive over that time span and I know the model will be accurate.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. I'll probably not have anything to report for a while now whiclst I digest how to re-draw the plans and start the build.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 
 

[Liverbudgie2]

Take the drawings to your friendly local copy shop and ask them to do you a set reduced to the size/scale you require. Ask them also to save the copies to DVD/stick this will enable you to just have certain sections reproduced i.e. the frames, stern and bow profile.
LB

[raflaunches]

For anyone interested I picked up the plans catalogue from Dave Metcalf at the Coalville show, these are the following plans available:
HMS Hedingham Castle 1/48 £16
HMS Warspite               1/192 £16
HMS Bryony                 1/48 £16
HMS Royal Oak.            1/192 £16
HMS Royal Oak.            1/128 £18
HMS Queen Elizabeth.   1/192 £16
HMS Queen Mary          1/192 £8
HMS Monarch               1/192 £8
HMS Iron Duke             1/192 £14
HMS Invincible             1/192 £16
HMS Belfast                  1/192 £12
HMS Gambia                 1/192 £10
HMS Manchester            1/192 £10
HMS Chester                 1/192 £10
HMS Matabele                1/192 £10
HMS Arunta                   1/192 £10
HMS Caesar                   1/192 £5
HMS Hardy                    1/192 £5
HMS Grove.                   1/96 £10
HMS Mary Rose.             1/192 £5
HMS Bar.                       1/48 £16
HMS Cavalier.                1/96 £16
HMS Onslow.                 1/96 £5
HMS Fal.                       1/96 £10
HMS Toreoador.             1/96 £8
HMS Bluebell.                 1/96 £10
HMS Bryony.                  1/96 £8


I'll upload the other 2 pages later

[raflaunches]

As promised here is next two pages


HMS Gardenia     1/96.  £8
HMS Kilburn       1/32.   £10
HMS Hermes.      1/192. £5
HMS General Wolf. 1/192 £8
HMS Marshall Soult 1/48 £ 12
HMS Apollo           1/192. £5
HMS M15              1/72    £10
HMS Speedy         1/48.   £14
73ft Vosper MTB.   1/24.  £10
HMT St Abbs         1/48    £10
HMT Brigand         1/48.   £14
HMT Samsonia.     1/72.    £10
HMT Stormking.    1/48.    £12
Bismarck.             1/200.  £16
SS Marthura.         1/96.   £16
SS Hilda.               3/16" to 1ft £12
SS Hilda.              1/48.   £14
MV Ilala.               3/16" to 1ft £12
SS Hunan.             1/96.  12
SS Sard.                1/48.  £10
SS Thrift.               1/96.  £10
MV Europa.            1/50. £14
ST Seaway.           1/32.   £14
MT H.Block.           1/32.   £8
ST Ocean Unity.     1/32.  £8
MT Alexandra Bruce 1/48 £10
Pilot Cutter Chimeara 1901 1/32. £10
PS Red Gauntlet 1892 1/48. £12
BNS Amapa.           1/96   £10
MB Manatee.          3/16" to 1ft. £5

[Geoff]

Small update. The original plans from the Maritime museum also show some small discrepancy between the bow and stern bulkheads which translates into anout 1mm at 1/96 scale so a little fudging needed. So far I have cut all the bulkheads out from 1/8 ply and am just finishing them off, plane and coarse sandpaper to get them to the correct shape, then I'll cut out the middle of each to ensure I have adequate access for all the equipment I want to install.
 
Next step will be to draw out and cut the main deck so I can ensure all bulkheads fit exactly at that level.
 
Long way to go but still have until 31/05/2016!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff

[madrob]

Hope you going to post the build up Geoff, I for one would like to see it

[mudway]

Not too pretty but easier to print.

[Geoff]

I have the Sambrook plans but lost the lines part over the years. A friend has the lines but they do not appear to be accurate as there are definate discrepancies. The set I had (same as my friends) gave me the lines of Benbow and show the side perfectly flat with no tumblehome. Other plans and photographs clearly show a tumblehome which threw me. It's quite possible the Sambrook plans have been updated as mine are literally decades old!
 
Even copies of the originals from the Maritime museum show some line discrepancies (3mm in beam difference betwen the bow and stern sections) but clearly show the tumblehome which is correct.
 
I copied the bulkheads down to 1/96 scale and then adjusted the beam by about 1mm and drew the longitudinal lines from those and they all fitted and flowed with no inconsitencies, so I am reasonably happy. I can't do anthing more than use the original plans.
 
I'll post further and try to get some pictures once something interesting has happened!
 
Regards
 
Geoff

[Geoff]

Despite the silence I have made some progress. All the bulkheads and main deck have been cut out of 4mm plywood together with the bow and stern templates and all finished to shape.
 
I now need to cut all the keel and side stringer slots and dry assemble.
 
Nothing really to photograph just yet but I'll follow up in due course.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 

[Netleyned]

When you get the photos up Geoff no doubt you will find a few more replies.
Waiting in anticipation,


Ned

[Bob K]

My wife's Grandfather served on HMS Iron Duke, including at Jutland.  I understand he was a cook on board.
She was born in Pompey, with generations of her family serving in the R.N. and Dockyards.

[Geoff]

At long last something to show, some actual progress. All the frames have ben cut out and fixed to the keel on a building board to keep everything straight. The main deck has been fitted which defines the all important deck shape. Imperfections in the hull can be readily corrected (if any) but the deck line is critical to the model. I have also made the forcastle deck but not yet fitted in the pictures.
 
I have started on the planking and the 6ft 6" first and second planks fought me all the way. I have ordered 24 small G clamps to assist. The problem is the plank is just too long and puts too much strain on the glue joints unless pinned to every frame which means the glue has gone off a little by the time you get to the last frame!
 
Oh well progress and once I have a couple of key planks in place I expect progress will be quicker with shorter planks, I hope!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 
 

[derekwarner]

Geoff....if the glue has "gone off'....before the full length of the plank is correctly placed & pinned sounds like you are using a "super glu"..........there are certainly alternatives to this .......
Polyurethane adhesives offer a superior bond strength and is totally water proof when cured    & you won't experience the quick set issue.....Derek

[Geoff]

Thank you, that's quite a good idea. At the moment I'm using Resin W which is a good glue with reasonable grip but the problem I have with each plank being nearly 7 feet long it just takes time to pin and fix particularly if pin or two does not hold.
 
I am hoping that once I have a couple of key planks each side I will be able to plank in shorther lengths, overlapping joints like brickwork, and of course can pin to the fixed planks.
 
The main problem I have is keeping the plank in at the bows so plan on using Resin W for all areas other than just the bow where I'll try some hot glue as that will fix and hold in very quick time.
 
I'll report back when my G clamps arrive and have another go.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff

[Liverbudgie2]

Geoff,
I suggest that you invest in some good quality waterproof glue and reasonable quality stapler to affix your planks to the frames; also start gluing from the bow after first establishing their run along  the hull, use blocks of the same timber at the extreme ends of the bow and stern, fill the gaps with stealers.
When complete cover the interior with resin and thin matting if you wish also fill any tight compartments at the bow and stern with resin as well as where the planks join the keel. You may then remove the staples and cover the exterior with fine glass fibre matting and resin filler and attend to any remaining holes depressions etc., with bar body filler.
LB

[Geoff]

Once the key planks each side were in place progress was quite rapid. As the pictures will show I started planking at the warterline upwards. Then inserted another key plank following the natural curve at the bilge level and planked in the gaps. A little tricky with some odd shapes needed. The hull was then removed from the building board and turned upside down and the planking finished and sanded smooth. Note the flat ply section amidships - this follows the flat bottom profile of the original ship but did cause some awkward plank shapes to be chamfered in. Next step it to coat the outside with epoxy resin then 25g fibreglass and more epoxy. Just waiting for the epoxy to arrive!

[Geoff]

A few more pictures.
 
G

[expat flyer]

Lovely work - especially nice to see planks laid all the way to the bow and staggered joins.

A lesson to all.

Jerry