Topic: A MORAL DILEMA (Read 4455 times)

Neil · « **on:** June 17, 2018, 12:12:43 am »

Is it right and correct for one to want to own an engraved ships bell...……….

not an ordinary ships bell, but one surrounded by sadness sorrow and tragedy

it is the bell of a tragic French trawler called JEANNE GOUGY, that went onto the rocks off Lands end in 1962, and I remember reading about the tragedy of how 12 men and boy including the skipper lost their lives one dark stormy night, before anyone even knew she was there.

the bell has come onto the market, but should she be given to the French as a memorial, or kept in private ownership...…..would the French even be interested should their fisheries industry in her home port of Dieppe be informed.

I would love to own a ships bell, especially one engraved...……...but could I or anyone live with that tragedy within their own being...….

what are your thoughts, honestly and truthfully.

thank you.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/26696188614

Neil · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2018, 01:32:20 am »

or should iaquire if possible, this relic, and offer it for repatriation to the chateau musee' de Dieppe...……...which would be my honourable outcome to my dilemma.

kees de mol · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2018, 01:40:49 am »

In my opinion it is both right and correct to own such a shipbell. You know the history so you have respect to the men lost in the tragedy. I also think it would be good to seek contact with the French if there would be a good place for the bell in a museum or memorial-site dedicated to the men lost their lives in this tradegy.
Wish you wisdom and blessing

Neil · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2018, 01:49:22 am »

Quote from: kees de mol on June 17, 2018, 01:40:49 am

In my opinion it is both right and correct to own such a shipbell. You know the history so you have respect to the men lost in the tragedy. I also think it would be good to seek contact with the French if there would be a good place for the bell in a museum or memorial-site dedicated to the men lost their lives in this tradegy.
Wish you wisdom and blessing

thank you for your wisdom Kees, my friend……………..I appreciate your comments.

I just hope therefore that I can acquire it for the good of all.

neil

Footski · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2018, 06:27:53 am »

I see no problem at all in owning such an item, particularly given that you know and respect the history. In my opinion, memorials are there for the living not for those who lost their lives, for whom they make no difference. As for passing it on, that is purely a personal choice. I would keep it but maybe inform the relevant French authority that you have it.

rnli12 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2018, 06:44:47 am »

As with all memorabilia from days gone by through tragedy or success I do think its commendable that people do remember events of the past.
So good for you

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2018, 12:29:47 pm »

We actulay have The Chappelle de Boncous, which is the Fishermans church which stands on the cliff overlooking harbour, they have memorials to those last a sea. The chateaux doesn't really have any items relating to sea (apart from a couple of large ship models.

Its a thought

[size=78%] [/size]

Jerry C · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2018, 02:58:47 pm »

It is possibly a legal dilemma as well. Who does the bell belong to? The Receiver of Wrecks? The insurance company? The Owners? Not knowing the full story I would want to test ownership. In buying it you might get more than you bargained for. Be careful!
Jerry.

Plastic - RIP · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2018, 04:01:12 pm »

Quote from: Jerry C on June 17, 2018, 02:58:47 pm

It is possibly a legal dilemma as well. Who does the bell belong to? The Receiver of Wrecks? The insurance company? The Owners? Not knowing the full story I would want to test ownership. In buying it you might get more than you bargained for. Be careful!
Jerry.

And announcing you have it on the interwebs may end up causing yourself a load of hassle from others who might think they have a better claim to it.

Mark T · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2018, 04:20:38 pm »

Neil there are plenty of people that own things - just simply because they can and have the funds to buy what they want.

Someone will buy this bell so why not you? You understand what it means by its providence so I can't think of a better home than yours. If you want it go and get it

Jonty · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2018, 06:10:44 pm »

Why not enjoy it whilst you live, and leave it to the Chapelle de Boncours in your will?

Neil · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2018, 06:35:45 pm »

thank you gents for all your input, and I have put in an offer, but like anything else one just has to wait patiently whilst the owner goes through all options.

thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens.

neil.

Howard · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2018, 06:40:31 pm »

Neil I take my hat off to you Sir what you have said can only of come from a gentleman.
Regards Howard

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2018, 07:00:49 pm »

I think that a ship's bell is something special in symbolising the 'soul' of a vessel and her crew.
The bell of HMS Hood is displayed at Portsmouth and is something I have touched with reverence in memory of that fine ship and in the memory of her crew. It is something really special to look upon and think about.
In this case, if there is a suitable public place in its home port to display the bell where those associated with the vessel can see it then that would be the best place for it. If that is not possible then ownership by someone who fully respects its provenance and will preserve it is the next best thing.
Colin

Neil · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2018, 07:18:23 pm »

Quote from: Colin Bishop on June 17, 2018, 07:00:49 pm

In this case, if there is a suitable public place in its home port to display the bell where those associated with the vessel can see it then that would be the best place for it.
Colin

I think that is absolutely right Colin, and those would be my wishes also. we have had many tragedies from the port of Fleetwood, and have only models of ships and a funnel of one of the ships that sank with all hands dragged up in an Icelandic trawler many years later to show the full price of fish.

those would be my intentions to negotiate the return of the bell to Dieppe, As I know what such an artefact signifies to those fisherfolk and their kinsfolk left behind on shore to grieve.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2018, 07:28:30 pm »

Yes Neil, a ship's bell provides a unique focus for commemorating a tragic maritime tragedy. It does need to be publiclly accessible if that is possible. Good luck with your efforts.

Colin

ballastanksian · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2018, 07:29:15 pm »

I cannot add much to this thread but to say that you are a person of the right moral compass and that you owning it is much much preferable to someone buying it for the scrap value of the bronze or just to hang up and make noises with when guests can go and get their burgers at a family BBQ. It isn't a trinket, it isn't a commodity, its the record of a tragedy. I would love to see HMS Barham's bell recovered to be placed alongside that of Hood as a memorial to her crew who died.

Neil · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2018, 07:49:33 pm »

thank you one and all. I hope that I can acquire this for our fellow fisherfolk in France.

neil.

meechingman · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2018, 08:17:26 pm »

Owing 'any old' ship's bell is one thing. This is another, IMHO.

I'd love to have the original bell from the 'Meeching' but I doubt if the current 'custodian' would ever sell it. (Their 'claim' is as valid as mine, if you like.)

But in the case of shipwreck and tragedy, I think things are different. I believe that artefacts like this should be on display for all to see, and to honour the memory of those lost. So the right thing to do is to donate it to the most appropriate place - usually a museum. Which one? One in Cornwall, as it's a Lands End shipwreck, or Dieppe, as it was her home port? And would the museum actually display the item? I have personal experience of donating items that simply got stored away, never going on show.

All things to be thought through.

Personally, I think that maybe the Chapelle de Bonsecours up there on the cliff would be the best place, assuming that they would be willing and able to display it. (How many times have I seen that church when entering Dieppe? Alas, I've never visited. Next time, I'll walk around to Le Pollet and then up to the church.) Failing that, the Musee de Dieppe up at the Chateau.

tassie48 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2018, 08:26:09 pm »

Having a Ships Bell on display at your home or like me at the front door is a way of showing respect to the lost or a event that happen to that vessel I have seen many a Ships Bell at front doors one of my ex crew has one and even rings it for the lost crew of that vessel on the day of her sinking I think that they should be displayed and not just stored away at some museum show it it is the heart and soul of a ship tassie48

Hotglove · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2018, 07:38:23 pm »

Any time we live in a house, or otherwise occupy a building that has some age we become part of its history, some of us are conscious of the joy and sadness that has gone before, others have no sensitivity at all.
I own a medal that was struck to commemorate a wedding in central Europe 500 yrs ago, sometimes I look at it and wonder how it managed to survive unscathed over all the war and upheaval that has occurred over those hundreds of years.
I do not feel inclined to give it to a museum or similar institute.
I will keep it safe and hope that my family will either do the same or sell it to someone who will also appreciate it.
An honest purchase of a much-loved artefact is no sin.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2018, 07:47:38 pm »

No, certaimly not in respect of an ancient artifact but this bell has connections to living relatives which is a slightly different situation.
Colin

dodes · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2018, 04:31:08 pm »

If I remember correctly, it only becomes the property of receiver of wrecks if it washes up between high and low water mark. As to wrecks on the bottom they all usually belong to someone, either the original owners if still about or the insurance company. But an item like that of low value, I would doubt if anyone is going to make any waves so buy it in good faith and enjoy it and use it each New Years Eve to ring out the old and in the new year. I know of a R.N diver who found a wreck of a sailing barque sunk at sea without trace, he was walking along its deck in the dark and bumped into its bell, he wrapped himself around it and sent a emergency signal to pull him up. He surfaced with the bell and a bell hanger caste as a dolphin, but the hanger being caste iron soon dissolved in air. But the bell is today in his fire grate, the vessel disappeared about 1898, but because of insurance companies etc. he has never declared it.

Neil · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2018, 09:41:42 am »

well, sadly this item did not sell via ebay this morning.

even after making 2 offers and sending 3 messages, the owner did not even have the courtesy or manners to reply with a "thanks, but no thanks"..

what is the point in putting something up for sale and not responding to serious offers and requests.

ahh well, c'est la vie. .

Plastic - RIP · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2018, 10:36:54 am »

people use ebay as a thermometer to find the value of something - put it on for £10 with a £10,000 reserve so it will never sell, but it is seen by millions and whatever the bids get to indicates a possible value.

They put the item on for many weeks like a worm on a fishing hook.

If the bids are way below what they think it's worth, they might withdraw it or shill-bid it up to what they really want for it hoping a mug will get caught up in the fake bidding frenzy.

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Author Topic: A MORAL DILEMA (Read 4455 times)