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[Colin Bishop]

Worth looking here to see the possible options:

http://www.small-claims-court-support.co.uk/enforcing-judgments.htm

http://www.small-claims.co.uk/enforcement.htm

http://www.lawpack.co.uk/small_claims_faq.asp#5004

[Martin (Admin)]

FYI......  Topic resuscitated  - :-\

[ROSYTH]

Oh it is good to see that what the Britz do best, they do well over and over again. Why is it that British mentality pushes things right to the edge and become obsessed with
sending certain folks to the gallows before all sides of the arguments are noted!!
The thread I believed was closed due to 'legal reasons', so why has it been resurected with the names deleted which relate to the person concerned only for the link to be still
in place refering to that thread in the first place!!!!!DOH.
I would hope that the community would also like to see an end to this farce and ask the very knowledgable moderators to finally kill this link and any relation to it by other forum
members once and for all please.
It is not the place to do the dirty washing in and should remain private with the moderators ensuring that any future bombastic threads relating to manufacturers are kept of the
public place forthwith.
I would say you folks do a fantastic job of bringing the modeller together and the transfer of information which gives help is simply the best around so why spoil it with this very
unsavoury topic, keep it private please.
Thank you for reading and I hope to continue to read and add threads as and when time allows in this awesome hobby.

Cliff

[grantl]

I must say I disagree with Rosyth. I have found reading this thread useful on two levels, one is the info about the claims system and the other is the info about the after sales service that someone says they have received, even if I don't know who from.

If I'd spent £800 on shoddy goods, and then been refused rectification/refund, I'd be making a noise about it.

On the other hand, if I had supplied a working system and the customer was in error I'd want to politely, but accurately, set the record straight 

I am hoping to build my first steam plant soon and this has certainly led me to think more carefully about what to buy and what questions to ask prospective suppliers.

Regards,

Grant.

[ROSYTH]

Well well what a surprise!

All these NEGATIVE thoughts man, not good for soul.

So tell me, would one, after reading through all the replies etc take a positive step and go to the very person who
has been targeted in the posting or would one go somewhere else?

Lets wait and see what way this goes shall we...............
Please be honest in whatever reply you post otherwise it is pointless contributing on it ok.
Cliff

[grantl]

Yes, negative thoughts,  I'd like to find a lovely heart warming post on here soon about it all being a misunderstanding, and all resolved, and everyone exchanging Christmas cards. Really, I'm not being sarcastic, I would like that. The situation as described wouldn't appear to do anyone any good.

A merry Christmas to you all.

Grant.

[HS93 (RIP)]

So several members who have been steam users for a long time have had or have friends who have had problems with a Particular manufacturer, and who comment about it are wrong, or is it wrong for someone who openly admits to links with the manufacturer asks for it to be removed.

Peter

[Stavros]

Please lets keep this FRIENDLY with no snide remarks thank you

Stavros

[grantl]

The thing is HS93 that it seems to me that your post moves from the substantive issue of an individual saying 'I have had a problem, it hasn't been resolved in consultation with the seller, and I'm considering the small claims court' to a much more generalised 'loads of people have problems with this manufacturer' which is much harder to justify because it's not these people making the statement, it's second hand. I'd personally to hear about these problems directly from these mebers and their friends.

As far as people having links to the manufacturer goes, that's pretty vague as well. If the link is being a satisfied customer then surely that's fine, they are entitled to express their good opinion. If its more than that then it probably isn't. But just saying 'links to the manufacturer'is a bit meaningless and, I hope you will forgive me for saying this, greatly weakens your statement.

Best wishes to all.

Grant.

[Bunkerbarge]

This thread was originally pulled and heavily moderated due to the fact that it was getting unfair and unsubstantiated.  The reason it was reinstated in it's present form was no more than to allow the useful advice posted by a couple of contributors to be available to all members for use should they ever get into difficulties with any vendor in the future.

Let's not drag it back down the same path as it originally went with more accusations and insinuations and simply leave it as it is, which is a usefull reference.

If people have specific concerns and challenges with a particular manufacturer then the obvious course of action is to take it up with that manufacturer rather than try to use this forum to progress personal issues.

As grantl rightly says this thread is to offer advice for such situations and maybe make people think carefully before committing large amounts of money to a project which has to be basic common sense anyway.

[ROSYTH]

Looks like we got there in the end then! I knew it wouldn't be to long before common sense overcame the attacks in individuals so well done to all and a lesson learnt.
Take it to them direct and not on here.

Merry Christmas........

Cliff

[nhp651]

I beg to differ on Roger of France's earlier post that solicitors are not alowed to represent in a small claims court.I have sued a number of companies in the small claims court over the past 10 years and all brought solicitors, whom I beat at their own game on my own terms.

In june 2002 I won a land mark case in the small claims court at Blackpool which made the Law society journal, when I sued _____ ______, the ambulance chaser accident line for my money back after I was awarded £1500.00p in an accident and Claims Direct took £1497.30p out of my award for their expences leaving me with a cheque for £2.70 . they turned up to court with both a solicitor AND a Barrister, but the judge saw sense and awarded me judgement. At this very moment I am taking _____ ___ to court under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act with regards a matter about my credit card, and ______ have already assigned a solicitor.

The point about the Small claims court is that you pay a fixed price for the proceedings, (in my case £150.00 flat rate) and no matter how many lawers they employ, YOU CAN'T GET STUNG FOR THEIR COSTS, unless it is a malscious claim! If you win, and they don't pay up you can employ  bailiffs to collect, or make a petition to have the award taken at source, even from pension funds these days. Take it from me, you have the right of the law on your side and as long as they have assets in their name, you can get your money back.

Believe me, been there, done that and had the web site once upon a time called www.sue4pleasure.info.uk
I learned a long while ago that I no longer turn over lay on my back and give up!!

Names removed  -  Moderator

[Roger in France]

Good to see somebody using the Courts effectively. There are too many companies out there who think an individual consumer will never act in this way.

Not knowing the details of the cases mentioned I cannot comment. However, the Small Claims Procedure certainly did prohibit legal representation. Do remember that the Court can apply whatever process it deems appropriate and so these cases may not have been heard under the small claims procedure. Certainly action under the Consumer Credit Act is most unlikely to be handled in that way. The Act is a highly complex statute which even has appendices to explain what parts of it mean! A former Lord Chief justice once said it was the most abstruse statute he had ever been asked to construe. There are several Sections of the Act very, very useful to consumers, for example the Act makes each Card Company "equally liable" with the seller for defects in the goods.

Roger in France.

[andygh]

Blimey, had to look up abstruse 

[nhp651]

Further to my post last night I feel that I have to tell you all of a little known clause in the Consumer Credit Act in this country which protects the individual purchaser against rogue traiders.
If you have bought a product (From ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD) using your CREDIT CARD then you are covered under the Consumer Credit Act under section 75.
That means that if someone sells you goods or does a service (Plumbing, building etc or a washing mashine, steam engine etc) that is faulty, not working or just plain no good and  that you do not receive those goods either from the seller or from them after repair, and you have paid for those goods by credit card, then the bank that issued your credit card to  you HAS JOINT LIABILITY FOR THAT PAYMENT that you are out of pocket by, and also reasonable expenses that you might have suffered as a loss to chasing up this matter with the original vendor.
This clause was to safeguard purchasers from rogue and cowboy traders and against companies who had been given the facilities by the banks to operate a credit card payment sceme by going bust or into voluntary liquidation to avoid paying out on their roguish dealings.
I am at present suing the parent bank of my credit card because I had a motor car worked on by a company which then blew up within 5 miles of picking it up.I had an indipendant test done on the car which proved negligence and then issued proceedings in court naming the garage as number 1 defendant and my bank as number 2 defendant, and the case is proceeding.
So don't be shy, write to the vendor and your bank issuer of the credit card giving them both the option to pay up on FULL REFUND of your goods plus any reasonable expenses such as postage ,phone calls etc, quoting that you will sue them for joint liability for your losses under SECTION 75 ,Consumer Credit Act, give them 21 days to respond and send payment in full, and send it by GUARANTEED NEXT DAY DELIVERY so that they can't deny having received it, and if(as the banks will do) they deny responsibility for this, issue a claim on line ( it's cheeper) through HMCS Money claim on line.
Best of luck to you all and if you feel that you need a little help from an old pro, give me a pm. only glad to help rid this world of those that can't trade in a decent and honest manner!

[Colin Bishop]

As a footnote to the above, you should appreciate that what is said relates only to CREDIT cards and not DEBIT cards which are essentially just a substitute for a cheque. Therefore it is always best to pay by CREDIT card if you can't take the goods/services away with you there and then.

The trouble now is that many companies are applying a surcharge if you use a CREDIT card to recoup the charge that the credit card operator makes to them. On a large purchase this can be quite substantial. On a recent holiday I booked it would have meant an extra £70 to pay by credit card. As the holiday was covered by ATOL I used my debit card instead but you need to exercise some judgement about this. At the moment most smaller purchases bought over the Internet don't seem to be attracting this extra charge but I suspect we may see an increase in this in the future as the credit card operators seek to recover some of the money they have lost by being prevented from charging excessive penalties for late payment etc. by upping the charges they make to the supplier.

Colin

[mook]

There is a rule that most people dont know. This is the Distance Selling Act of 2000, which states that if the goods are not delivered within 30 days then the contract is cancelled by law and if the money has already been taken eg debit card then legally you can have it back. The bank will refund it if there is no pin and chip or delivery can not be proved. How do I know this well I recently ordered a steam plant from a well known steam engineer which he never delivered despite written promises of delivery and taking my money the same day as the order was placed with a two week delivery promise. Ten weeks later one month after I applied for the money to be returned it was back in my bank although the vendor refused to cancel the order or send the goods. You do have to write to the vendor to tell him that you are using the act if you need to get the money back directly from him eg a cheque. All this distance selling is to cover telephone orders or similar.
If you have the same troubles as I did then take all actions that you can I have spoken to the office of fair trading, the bank, and soon the police because I dont want this to happen to any one else.
E Mail me for more details of how i dealt with this company if you want more details. 

[boatman126]

In reply to NHP615.  The problem I have with this is that I paid by cheque and not credit card.  This manufacturer told me that this is what he preferred ( I wonder why?)

[mook]

Hi Boatman if the problem is with this same steam engineer then do as I did and contact the police, office of fair trading as they are already looking into this company, the more the merrier. You are covered under the distance selling act (read my post above). It is about time this company was put out of business before more people find themselves on the losing end. 
E Mail me if I can help
Mook

[Martin (Admin)]

Just a reminder.....

If any modeller or consumer for that matter has cause for complaint with a retailer or manufacture, you are reminded
that in the first case, the consumer is obliged to make every effort to seek a resolution with said retailer or manufacture.
( There has been much advice and guidance on this topic alone.) Therefore, please make sure that all complaints have
been fully aired with the retailer or manufacture concerned outside of this Forum first.

After much discussion between the moderators, we will be allowing this topic to run (after extensive moderation) due
to it's relevance and importance. Therefore, when posting here, please only state your own personal experiences when
dealings with any trader - without exaggeration or omission. ( Traders names or identification may have to be removed for
legal reasons. )

If and when your problems are resolved it would be appropriate and a courtesy to everyone to record that fact on the
Forum just as you raised the original issue. See: Good Customer Service. - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=710.0

[ROSYTH]

Hi MOOK,

May I ask what it was you ordered in the way of kit and to clarify did the vendor actually deliver the goods to your door either on time or late.
What was the problem with the goods in question if any and have you reached a conclusion yet.

Cheers
Cliff

[ian kennedy]

 Hi, i have been reading this section of the forum with some degree of shock and disgust
I can't believe the totally negative comments regarding this manufacturer.
Personally i have had no problems with J.H and have been buying and using his products for many years now, and i might add with no problems regarding payment,delivery and most importantly quality.
From what i have read there seems to be a bit of a witch hunt going on here , and if you seriously have a problem then deal with the vendor and don't vent your anger/frustrations here until you have resolved the problem.
I have been to see J.H on many occasions and he is a very friendly one man business working in a small workshop, designing/manufacturing and assembling items to order.
I would have thought that as we are all modelmakers we of all people should know that good things take time and sometimes unforeseen issues crop up and interfere with our hobbies and work like family commitments/work and illness.
 SO please stop this pointless negative griping, We need people like this so we can enjoy our leisure time.

[nhp651]

Quite possibly Mr. Kennedy you have been really lucky throughout your modelling endeavours, whereas others seem not to have been, and I beleive that they are only commenting on bitter experiences which is, under our constitution of free speach for all, in this country, what they are all entitled to do.
Perhaps, from the guist of this thread you have not had problems that others have suffered, but had you had, perhaps your own feelings might be different!
I have my own thoughts on this matter which WILL remain private from this forum, but take it to say, Mr Kennedy, you don't know the half of it, really you don't

[ian kennedy]

I am sorry if i touched some raw nerves here but as i have said in my earlier post personally speaking i have not found any of the problems mentioned.
Whether it was luck or judgement who knows?
what were your specific problems as i am curious? and do you have them resolved now?

[nhp651]

I'm sorry, Mr Kennedy, but the information you are asking is privvy to myself, and WILL NOT be discussed over open forum or even through private message or emails I am sorry.
I will not be personally, and shall not allow this site/forum, be subjected to anyone mis-construing my thoughts or past personal experiences for legal scrutiny for simple gossip.
thankyou though for your concern.