Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: kno3 on July 16, 2008, 03:02:11 pm

Title: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on July 16, 2008, 03:02:11 pm
Hello!

Here's my first model boat project: a mostly scratch built live steam wooden tugboat. It's almost ready (still needs some details on the deck, ballast etc.).
Only the hull shape comes from the St. Canute plan/kit from Billing Boats, the rest is my own design. It is plank on frame, using abachi wood strips. The darker wood used for the deck and cabins is walnut.

The steam engine is a modified Wilesco D49, with vertical boiler and V-twin double acting piston valve engine. I have added a superheater (steam line going down the chimney and exiting through the fire box), lightened the con rods and added an adjustable oiler and manometer from Modellbau Niggel. The fuel is alcohol. The vaporising burner is my own design, using a sealed external tank which feeds the burner via a 2-way tube that keeps a constant alcohol level in the burner.

I have described the building process here, for those interested:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7166206/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on July 16, 2008, 03:16:18 pm
What an absolutely superb model, and this is your first!  I can't wait to see what you do next.

Beautiful woodwork and brasswork and I'm sure she will look fantastic on the water.  I would strongly recommend bath trails before you commit her to open water though.

I'm a bit apprehensive about the use of string to control the engine.  Any loss of control there could be disastrous and loose you the model so I would try to come up with whatever linkages and cranks are necesary to get the servo movement to the control valve.  String stretches with use and with moisture so inside a steam plant is a bit risky.  Hard linkages may be a bit of a pain to put together but far safer and more secure.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: DickyD on July 16, 2008, 03:17:16 pm
Excellent model. So much in so small place, very clever kno3  O0
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on July 16, 2008, 06:09:07 pm
GREATTT...WELL DON
REGARDS BERNHARD
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on July 16, 2008, 08:50:20 pm
Thanks guys!  :)

I forgot to mention that I have some videos on youtube, showing preliminary bathtub tests of my tug:
http://www.youtube.com/user/wat3randfir3

Bunkerbarge, I have little room in the boat and metal linkages would have to be quite complicated, as the engine and boiler are not mounted on a common base (because of space reasons).
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Willit on July 18, 2008, 11:32:06 pm
I think its brilliant, definitely something to be very proud of  :)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on July 29, 2008, 02:59:50 pm
Thanks!

I did some modifications to the engine and mounted, for easy removall, all parts (boiler, engine, burner etc.) on a brass base.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: mogogear on July 30, 2008, 10:12:05 pm
Great work !! Are you going to leave her natural wood or do any painting?

I also would chime in to consider alternatives to the string. Even woven metal cable, wire etc with small attachment springs on the ends to aid in hook up and keeping good tension. The string will stretch with humidity from the steam environment or liable to burn or break. Clever use of the pulleys as well-

One last question- I see that the reverse is not hooked up- do you intend to have a F &R?

A first rate first boat- Hats off!! :D
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on July 30, 2008, 10:23:27 pm
Hi and thanks!

I'm planning to leave the wood natural (I have already clearcoated it with matte lacquer).

So far the string has been reliable. Metal cable might do the work too, but I don't have any. Let's see if I can find a suitabe one (very flexible).

What do you mean by reverse not being hooked up? My boat has both forward and reverse. The servo pulls on both string ends (there's a pic showing the servo coupled to the engine). The right end is for forward and the left for reverse.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: chingdevil on July 30, 2008, 10:30:05 pm
Kno3

Have you thought about using the steel wire sold in DIY stores to hang pictures? Might be just what you need.


Brian
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: mogogear on August 02, 2008, 05:18:05 am

What do you mean by reverse not being hooked up? My boat has both forward and reverse. The servo pulls on both string ends (there's a pic showing the servo coupled to the engine). The right end is for forward and the left for reverse.

Ahhh -I was unclear on exactly the strings were connected to- I understand now that they are on either side of the reversing valve!!

The woven type picture wire may be just the trick.. or a single strand  guitar wire string...
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: oiler on August 14, 2008, 06:26:56 am
beautiful tug!
the movie was fun to see.
Question where did you get the insulation for your piping?

thanks
Chad
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 14, 2008, 10:29:57 am
Steam pipe insulation has to be done the hard way I'm afraid.  I do mine with a reel of twine or fine string, cut a length and carefully and tightly wrap the string along the length of the pipe.  To start off I wrap over the tail to keep it tidy then at the end loop the tail through the last turn, tighten it and cut the tail off close to the surface.  A spot of superglue holds it all in place while I paint it with a matt white enamel such as Humbrol.  Don't bind the pipe right up to the back of the pipe fittings or you will have difficulty fitting and removing the pipe.  Some people use gloss but being a marine engineer, steam pipes have always been matt to me.  If they get dirty they get repainted.

I insulate mine only along the copper pipe and do not cover the brass fittings soldered to the ends.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 14, 2008, 01:22:01 pm
beautiful tug!
the movie was fun to see.
Question where did you get the insulation for your piping?

thanks
Chad

Thanks ;-)

I made the insulation myself and it's not difficult. Just take a thick cotton yarn and wind it tightly on the steam pipes. You can use some superglue to hold the end while you are winding it. I also tied each end around the pipe (I take the threads at the end of the yarn apart (around 3 cm in length) and make a double knot, then cut the excess off.
For finishing I use the white corrector fluid for paper. Apply it liberally with the applicator from the bottle. I have noticed that 2 coats are necessary to get a smoother finish, and it's important to let the first coat dry for 10 minutes or so before starting with the second.
The cotton yarn and liquid corrector are fine for normal wet steam temperature. However, if you use a superheater, it might turn yellow-brown where it exits the boiler. In that case leave a segment uncovered or use another heat resistant insulation material, such as a sliced silicone tube.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kiwimodeller on August 14, 2008, 10:37:17 pm
I have on occaision used the flexible linkages that the RC Plane guys use for rudder and flaps controls, a flexi wire in a hard plastic outer. Although they do not like too tight a bend I have managed to make an "S" with two right angle bends. Hope this helps, Ian.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: mogogear on August 15, 2008, 12:09:47 am
Kno3,

Have you run your boiler in this power plant very long? Long meaning is it fairly new to you as an owner..It is an alcohol power burner - yes? or is it gas?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 15, 2008, 09:16:29 am
It has been run many times (I've had the boiler for at least seven years or so) and it has an alcohol burner.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: oiler on August 16, 2008, 05:43:28 am
Oh I just caught that!
THIS IS YOUR FIRST BOAT!?
WOW
can't wait to see the next! It's neat how your gonna leave it natural.
Thank you for the reply about the insulation. O0
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 16, 2008, 10:39:58 am
Oh I just caught that!
THIS IS YOUR FIRST BOAT!?
WOW
can't wait to see the next! It's neat how your gonna leave it natural.
Thank you for the reply about the insulation. O0

Yep, first one. You're welcome!
Are you planning to build a steamboat?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: mogogear on August 23, 2008, 06:39:41 am
kno3,
I just re-read this post again and I have to say I am more impressed on everything than I was even the first time..and I was amazed then..Capstans, the railings- what a superb first build!! I hope to see footage of it underway!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 23, 2008, 01:06:48 pm
Thanks Mo. I will try to make a short video after I get it on the water. But first I Have to add ballast, and I haven't yet decided how to do that yet. I have some lead balls, but I'd like to make the ballast removable.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: andygh on August 23, 2008, 04:09:31 pm
How about chain for the control linkages  :-\
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: mogogear on August 23, 2008, 04:35:39 pm
Thanks Mo. I will try to make a short video after I get it on the water. But first I Have to add ballast, and I haven't yet decided how to do that yet. I have some lead balls, but I'd like to make the ballast removable.

A baggie fileld with lead shot in the bottom of the hull... then fill the baggie with epoxy resin ...so the weight doesn't shift around
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 24, 2008, 12:31:40 pm
There's no room for a bag in the bottom of the hull. The clearance between the hull bottom and the engine's base plate is 3-4 mm. I'm thinking of making some pockets on the sides, to put the lead shot in, or to use lead sheet.

As for the chain - no thanks, too complicated. It works perfectly with the cotton thread
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: oiler on August 26, 2008, 03:04:50 am
Oh I just caught that!
THIS IS YOUR FIRST BOAT!?
WOW
can't wait to see the next! It's neat how your gonna leave it natural.
Thank you for the reply about the insulation. O0

Yep, first one. You're welcome!
Are you planning to build a steamboat?

yeah been building one off and on for some time. It's not scratch built like yours though.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on August 26, 2008, 04:20:08 pm
Pictures...? That's what makes forums interesting, so please post some.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 05, 2008, 09:15:32 pm
Hello. Here's a short video of my steam tug on trial in the bathtub.
http://www.youtube.com/v/6wJSdGhEffo&hl

I have finally added some lead ballast (lead sheet used for roofing) and now the tug floats deeper, as it should.
Been also working on the steam plant in the last few days: Added a valve to empty the condensed water from the oiler too, a useful thing to have.

But I'm still not happy with the burner, as it isn't very reliable and sometimes the tank won't feed the burner. It can also overflow if the valve is forgotten open or something else goes wrong (don't ask me how I know, the whole inside was on fire this afternoon, when the burner overflowed because I had forgotten to close a valve before refilling - luckily I had a biottle of water handy and no serious harm was done, except for a molten electrical wire).
The space in the hull is very cramped, so I'm considering using a simpler and more reliable burner. I'm thinking about using one with wicks and maybe 2 or 3 "mushroom-style" vaporisers. What else would you suggest?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on October 05, 2008, 09:21:39 pm
go to Gas you will never look back have a look at   http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/ceramic_burners.htm    for some ideas, also these are some advertised on ebay at times, but you will find it takes up less space and is better at heating ,,,BUT you cannot drink it like you can now   :D   :D   :D


Proteus
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 05, 2008, 09:59:23 pm
Thanks, but I still haven't given up on alcohol  {-)
I'd like to try building a new one and if that one doesn't work either, then I'll consider gas.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 05, 2008, 10:14:28 pm
And, by the way, who makes those burners and gas tanks? I'm trying to find out if they are available here in Germany too.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on October 05, 2008, 10:47:06 pm
Bixhead engineering is I think part of Forest Classics.


Proteus,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 27, 2008, 08:31:44 pm
Didn't have much time for my ship lately, but I managed to do some bits: added a steering wheel, a machine telegraph and a voice tube to the bridge and position lights to the roof. The lamps and wheel are bought ready-made, the rest is made from brass leftovers I had on my workbench.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 27, 2008, 08:35:36 pm
Also changed the ventilators with larger ones, because the ones I had seemed a bit to small.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: SteamboatPhil on October 27, 2008, 09:15:45 pm
Thats really looking good no Kno3  :-))
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on October 28, 2008, 09:06:26 am
Looking absolutely beautiful.  How did you make the cowlings for the ventilators?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 28, 2008, 09:27:49 am
thanks. I didn't make them. They are cast in brass and I bought them from this shop:
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/www.elde-modellbau.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154906da6204aee/shopdata/0020_Beschlagteile/0145_L=FCfter/0020_L=FCfter+I/product_overview.shopscript

or

http://www.elde-modellbau.com/
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: craftysod on October 28, 2008, 11:02:29 pm
A beautiful model,as i have said to BB in the past,bare wood looks fantastic,shows the workmanship that goes into building these craft,well done
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 28, 2008, 11:56:21 pm
Added some more details: a lower gunwale(the white stuff is the by-product of the cyanoacrylate used to glue it in place, and should disappear with the first clear coat). Then a brass arch over the skylight in the back, to keep the towing rope away from it, brass rails both sides of the cabin, and painted the bases of the air vents in black, to match the chimney.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: oiler on October 29, 2008, 12:47:12 am
where did you get that neat displacement lubricator? And by the way that is a very nice boat you made there very talented craftsmanship .
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on October 29, 2008, 05:59:46 am
hi.......Looks GREAT.......well don

regards Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on October 29, 2008, 06:02:10 am
ho  Oiler...... you can get them her

http://www.modellbau-niggel.de/

Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Archibald H. on October 29, 2008, 10:57:28 am
Hi KNO3
That 's certainly is a very nice model you're building there.
I was wondering, is your model not getting to topheavy? As far as I can see it's based on a St. Canute hull, a hull that rolls very easily.
Cheers, A!H.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 29, 2008, 05:25:44 pm
Hi all!

Oiler, the displacement lubricator is from Niggel, Bernhard gave you the right address.

Archibald, it was top heavy before I added ballast and it was floating too high on the water. But since I have added lead sheet to the bottom of the hull, everything is ok. I put it in the bathtub and knocked it over so the boat rolled until the edge of the deck was at water level, and it straightened itself quickly.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: andyn on October 29, 2008, 06:14:17 pm
Don't hold me to this, but i think you must like brass.

Superb work there, its looking great :-))
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kiwimodeller on October 29, 2008, 09:39:59 pm
ho  Oiler...... you can get them her

http://www.modellbau-niggel.de/

Bernhard
Hi, that is an interesting site, can anybody explain to me how to get a version in English? Thanks, Ian.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: wideawake on October 29, 2008, 10:12:57 pm
I agree.  I shall be ordering a lubricator definitely.  I found that babelfish translated the product info pretty well.   The main thing to note is that the threads all seem to be metric, not ME sizes.   Not a problem for my purpose as the twin I acquired on ebay also seems to have metric threads (to my surprisse) but will need possibly neeed adaptors made up if one was to be integrated into a plant that was built using conventional ME threads.

Cheers

Guy
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kiwi on October 30, 2008, 05:55:24 am
Hi Ian,
try Google Translator, free from google. Works good. I use it with both explorer and firefox.
Firefox has a free translator add-on too.
Kiwi
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 30, 2008, 09:23:46 am
I agree.  I shall be ordering a lubricator definitely.  I found that babelfish translated the product info pretty well.   The main thing to note is that the threads all seem to be metric, not ME sizes.   Not a problem for my purpose as the twin I acquired on ebay also seems to have metric threads (to my surprisse) but will need possibly neeed adaptors made up if one was to be integrated into a plant that was built using conventional ME threads.

Cheers

Guy

I think Mr. Niggel might also be willing to do custom threads, you can ask him in an e-mail.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: oiler on October 30, 2008, 09:58:04 pm
ho  Oiler...... you can get them her

http://www.modellbau-niggel.de/

Bernhard

Thank you sir, you are an asset to this forum and a big help :}
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 02, 2008, 11:23:41 am
You might have noticed the small condenser on my steam plant. Well, yesterday I decided to build a bigger one, as the small would fill up too early.
Started with brass sheet and soldered it together. The somewhat odd shape is due to the crowded hull of my tugboat. It will be mounted on the boiler directly.
The lower pipe connections are the steam inlet (which goes up inside almost to the top), a drain pipe (which will have a plug, or a small valve if I find a suitable one) and on top is the exhaust to the chimney.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 02, 2008, 11:25:42 am
And here some pictures of the condenser mounted to the steam plant, and in the boat.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on November 02, 2008, 02:22:31 pm
nice brass work ,  have you got any drawrings of the pipes on the inside . thanks

Proteus,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 02, 2008, 05:22:06 pm
I made a drawing of the condenser's inside for you.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on November 02, 2008, 05:48:15 pm
Thank you for that

Proteus,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 15, 2009, 01:44:14 am
Hi all!

Time for an update. I bought a new vaporising burner. It looked like this when I got it:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1134/3169082468_4203cdd1ef_o.jpg)

Because the two vaporisers were too far apart to fit under my tug's boiler, I had to modify it. I cut it and soldered the two vaporisers closer together. I also added a starter wick to preheat the vaporisers 9otherwise one has to preheat them with a lighter or so). Then I added a water gauge to monitor the alcohol level in the tank.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/3168251001_1d0e6016d7_o.jpg)

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1123/3169082426_ae89a12577_o.jpg)

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1146/3169082032_21fb163a16_o.jpg)

It burns for about 30 minutes on a full tank. Here's a test. It gives off more heat to the boiler than my other burner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n63uU-z3wPM&feature=channel_page
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on January 15, 2009, 02:02:59 am
Nice Job! Looks Great!  :-))

I love all of the improvements you have made to your steam plant and your tug has really turned out fantastic.

Keep up the great work!

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 15, 2009, 10:32:36 am
Thanks Nick! It has also surprised me that all the fiddling with the engine, which was rather disappointing in the beginning, has resulted in pretty good performance.

I was surprised to see what a change of oil can do: since I started using the steam oil from Regner (which is a very thick, viscous oil - I use to lubricate the crankshaft and everything else too) the engine runs much smoother and with less noise.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: logoman on January 15, 2009, 03:10:20 pm
Kno3, your new burner and condenser are great, I'm glad you didn't give up on the alcohol burner. Is there any chance of you doing a short video of the burner in action, I haven't seen this type of 'mushroom' burner before.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 16, 2009, 11:57:10 am
Ok, I'll do one soon.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 16, 2009, 02:01:19 pm

I was surprised to see what a change of oil can do: since I started using the steam oil from Regner (which is a very thick, viscous oil - I use to lubricate the crankshaft and everything else too) the engine runs much smoother and with less noise.


what Oil where you using first before you changed to Regner

Proteus,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 16, 2009, 08:52:01 pm
I used several, including Wilesco's own steam oil (which is rather thin), motor oil and olive oil.

Here's the video of the burner in action. It shows how the pilot wick preheats the "mushroom" burner heads until they start vaporising alcohol and burning with a large flame.

(http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/aAeMxsBN9hI/default.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAeMxsBN9hI

Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 16, 2009, 10:29:50 pm
The latest additions to my tugboat


I don't know what these are called, but you know what I mean:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3302/3198194838_d0777c3fe4.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3198193310_437031364f.jpg)


Made some protection bars for the skylights:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3198185184_f569f3b666.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3197342179_2fc578ed37.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/3198182026_1bfe52d9eb.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3197339519_670fc627c2.jpg)


Added masts I made of brass tubing. They carry the lamps and flag, which can be raised on the little roller.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/3197333345_a9c7d34028.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/3198176210_9bbb84643b.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/3198178758_6997494b29.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3493/3197336009_2ce9177364.jpg)


Some general views:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3197347793_b52b273e68.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3197343859_6619dc2a69.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/3198188704_8134886b98.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3198190240_527643cb74.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3198190902_b15c2b0709.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/3197345451_b10ea74623.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3197330867_9c66a82094.jpg)


Two videos with the tugboat under steam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVuYGvgEnlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw-monn6VwQ
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: andyn on January 16, 2009, 11:27:25 pm
Beautiful work there

I'll post when our scale day is at the club, I'm sure it will be most appreciated if you turn up with this thing :-))
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 16, 2009, 11:29:32 pm
Thanks!
But where exactly is your club? I'm in Germany at this time...  %)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: andyn on January 16, 2009, 11:32:52 pm
Oh that doesnt exactly help matters were in England...
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 16, 2009, 11:33:46 pm
Hi have you got any pictures of it on open water yet ? they look so good in winter with the steam showing up much better in cold weather.

Proteus
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 17, 2009, 12:04:38 am
No, not yet. I still want to build in a ventilator because the fire doesn't get enough oxygen unless all doors and windows are open.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on January 17, 2009, 03:26:15 am
Wow!

Absolutely Beautiful Craftsmanship! I just love the way your tug has turned out. Great job. :-))

Now I need to clean the drool off of my keyboard!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Roger in France on January 17, 2009, 06:29:16 am
Super build, excellent.

Excuse my ignorance, what flag is that.

Small comment, if your string looks a bit "hairy" on the fender, try applying beeswax. It not only lays the hairs but offers a small degree of waterproofing.

Roger in France
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on January 17, 2009, 07:32:48 am
Hey.............greatttt work....look TIP...TOP........+++++++
Regards Bernhard

Roger,,good ide with the beewax....i will try that to.........
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 17, 2009, 09:16:57 am
Thanks guys! Good idea with the wax to keep the string nice.

The flag is Romanian, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_flag


Nick, I was wondering, since you also built a tugboat with one of your steam plants: did the fire get enough oxygen when all fittings were on, did you leave some openings?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 17, 2009, 09:44:44 am
you have to be able to get a lot of air in ,well you do with gas and I wouldn't have thought spirit would be different, you also have to get the heat out or you will start to have problems with bending and with some glues, this is the reason some people go for open boats as well as being able to see the moving parts, I see the floor of the bridge is grating is it possible to remove the under side of it as that would enable a lot of hot air to escape with doors and windows open. they do create a lot of heat when enclosed I also line the inside of the superstructure with a heat reflective tape they use in motorsport, you will of realised by now how hot it gets from tests but 30 min on a hot day with a big burner produces wood bending heat.
Proteus 
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 17, 2009, 10:27:05 am
Could you give me a link to that reflective tape?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 17, 2009, 10:57:21 am


I used this tape 2" wide but at the time I bought it they did shorter rolls that where about 20' and a lot cheaper, you should be able to get it local to you cheaper as this company is expensive.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=DEI010408

this stuff is not as good but would prob work

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=ADVAT500

 Proteus
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on January 18, 2009, 01:57:51 am
Thanks guys! Good idea with the wax to keep the string nice.

The flag is Romanian, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_flag


Nick, I was wondering, since you also built a tugboat with one of your steam plants: did the fire get enough oxygen when all fittings were on, did you leave some openings?

Hi Kno3,

The tugboat "Seguin" that I built and posted pictures of here on this forum does have one of our steam plants installed. With this model I chose to leave all of the window glazing off in order to allow enough air to be available to the steam plant. I haven't had any trouble with air circulation or excessive heat build up with this particular model.

I have started building two more steam powered tugs which both models do not have enough windows or openings to allow for proper air circulation. What I have chosen to do with one of the tugs, is to install two miniature "computer type" cooling fans that I bought at a local electronics store. These fans are very small and very quite. They do not require much power either. My idea is that, one of these fans will draw air into the hull through a skylight on the model. The incoming air from this fan will then be routed and distributed throughout the hull via some ducting which will carry fresh air to the steam plant. The other small fan will pull air out of the hull to help keep too much heat from building up inside the model. I have not had much free time lately to continue work on either of these tugs so I will not know if this system will work well yet.

Nick
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 18, 2009, 02:22:13 am

Hi
I have started building two more steam powered tugs which both models do not have enough windows or openings to allow for proper air circulation. What I have chosen to do with one of the tugs, is to install two miniature "computer type" cooling fans that I bought at a local electronics store. These fans are very small and very quite. They do not require much power either. My idea is that, one of these fans will draw air into the hull through a skylight on the model. The incoming air from this fan will then be routed and distributed throughout the hull via some ducting which will carry fresh air to the steam plant. The other small fan will pull air out of the hull to help keep too much heat from building up inside the model. I have not had much free time lately to continue work on either of these tugs so I will not know if this system will work well yet.

Nick

You may have a problem with the fan that is sucking, as it will be pulling wet steamy air through it, just keep an eye on it, the pushing ones work well.

Proteus
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 18, 2009, 11:01:50 am

Hi Kno3,

The tugboat "Seguin" that I built and posted pictures of here on this forum does have one of our steam plants installed. With this model I chose to leave all of the window glazing off in order to allow enough air to be available to the steam plant. I haven't had any trouble with air circulation or excessive heat build up with this particular model.

I have started building two more steam powered tugs which both models do not have enough windows or openings to allow for proper air circulation. What I have chosen to do with one of the tugs, is to install two miniature "computer type" cooling fans that I bought at a local electronics store. These fans are very small and very quite. They do not require much power either. My idea is that, one of these fans will draw air into the hull through a skylight on the model. The incoming air from this fan will then be routed and distributed throughout the hull via some ducting which will carry fresh air to the steam plant. The other small fan will pull air out of the hull to help keep too much heat from building up inside the model. I have not had much free time lately to continue work on either of these tugs so I will not know if this system will work well yet.

Nick

I have bought a very small fan too. It's 25x25mm and has an aluminum body. Now I'm trying to figure out how to power it from my receiver in the boat... or directly from the batteries? As you can see, I know almost othing about r/c electronics, and this is my first boat and attempt at r/c.

I was thinking about installing the fan just under the pilot's cabin and make some air intake holes in the front of its base and a pipe to direct the air jet towards the burner chamber.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: logoman on January 18, 2009, 11:08:10 am


(http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/aAeMxsBN9hI/default.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAeMxsBN9hI



thanks, you have IM.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 18, 2009, 11:13:47 am
What do I have?   :o
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on January 18, 2009, 12:04:43 pm
regards Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on January 18, 2009, 11:26:58 pm
Soo true!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: ian kennedy on January 19, 2009, 11:19:14 am
Hi Nick and Proteus,

RE PC cooling fans, i am using six small lap top fans in my steam model of HMS Inflexible

Four fans are linked to cowl vents in front of and over the boiler/burner area and two more between the boiler and engines, although the last two don't really need to be fitted, because the others provide quite a high positive pressure inside the sealed hull and any warm wet air is expelled through other open vents in the superstructure.

The system seems to work very well in this set up, the hull measures 44" x 10" x 3 1/2" draught.

As for heat shielding i also use the tape mentioned, but with some thin soldering Matt bonded to the back of it, just as extra insurance for any excessive heat soak issues.

Regards

Ian
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 19, 2009, 07:21:02 pm
Hi Ian, do you have any pictures of the fan set-up? Do they have extra batteries?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: craftysod on January 19, 2009, 07:45:13 pm
If anyone needs fans from pc,i have a few,no cost no p+p cos i am a nice guy will send for free
Mark
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 19, 2009, 08:30:19 pm
How big are they?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bee on January 19, 2009, 08:45:47 pm
anyone thought of running the fan off a little single cylinder oscillator - seems more appropriate.  O0
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: ian kennedy on January 19, 2009, 10:37:12 pm
Hi Kno,

I don't have any photo's at the moment but when i get the new workshop up and running i will post some here for you.

They run off a small 6 volt gell cell batt and can be switched on and off via R/C from the tranny.

Ian
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: catengineman on January 19, 2009, 11:17:54 pm
Hi this is where you all find out that I know zilch about steam models :((

I have read that you are putting fans to get the draught for the burners (or have I got that wrong) is it not possible to make the exhausted steam *draw * through the fire box and thus create hotter burn and more steam.

R,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Proteus on January 19, 2009, 11:54:14 pm
The main reason is to get enough air to the burner so that it can burn correctly, then secondly you want to get the hot air moving out so you don't get hot spots below the superstructure.


 Proteus
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 20, 2009, 09:24:00 am
Hi this is where you all find out that I know zilch about steam models :((

I have read that you are putting fans to get the draught for the burners (or have I got that wrong) is it not possible to make the exhausted steam *draw * through the fire box and thus create hotter burn and more steam.

R,

I already mounted the exhaust pipe in the chimney, to help with draught, but the problem is that the boat is closed and it is difficult for fresh air to get in to the burner. That's why I had to run it with the windows and doors opened. There is also another problem, that the engine leaks some small amounts of steam. In a small closed space, this can put out the the fire unless you have very good air circulation.
To avoid that, I thought about adding the fan to get fresh air inside the hull.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 20, 2009, 10:41:02 pm
Coincidentally you are going through exactly the same thought processes that I went through when designing the plant for the Ben Ain.  I wanted a supply of air to help the burner and keep the air circulating for cooling purposes as well as keeping condensation levels under control.

I am opening just about every thing I can from accomodation doors to engine room skylights and even making the machinery space vents real and hollow.  I am then going to add a computer casing fan at the forward end, driven simply from it's own battery, to provide a flow of air through the model which will hopefully control things.  Not actually tried it yet so I can't report on it's success or otherwise but I fully intend fitting it for these reasons.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on January 20, 2009, 11:15:04 pm
I was also thinking about a fan driven via belt from the steam engine... However my tug is so small and cramped that I'm not sure this is feasible.

I just added a scratch built searchlight. I originally wanted to buy one ready made, because I have seen some very nice metal ones, but they are only available with a shiny chrome finish... Since i wanted to have all fittings in brass, I had to make my own and this is the result.

I habe also changed the lever arm of the steam whistle, because the original seemed a bit bulky. Made a thinner one instead.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3214058894_14d95d260e.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3214057816_f0c1f4cfc0.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3214056846_ab7b933c93.jpg)

Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: logoman on January 21, 2009, 09:20:49 am
you've doe a super job on the search light, it HAD to be brass. and I agree, the whistle lever did look too large before. your decision to use bigger vents made a great improvement too.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on February 22, 2009, 12:08:12 am
Hello! Time for an update.

I made a working davit to lift the anchor on deck. Found the anchor on Ebay and thought it would match the style of the tug and period. I also made a brass hatch (behind the anchor winch) and under it I installed an electric blower for the burner.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3369/3298032119_27a381754f.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/3298024121_7c66597d66.jpg)

Added a wooden strip to the thing that keeps the towing line off the deck:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3646/3298025215_003a27fb7f.jpg)

Overall view:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3298022943_dd3fe56077.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on February 22, 2009, 07:20:52 am
WHAT A NICE TUG IT IS...


Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: logoman on February 22, 2009, 09:22:09 am
looking the business Kno3!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on February 22, 2009, 11:33:41 am
Hi guys, here some pictures of the new lighting system of my tugboat. It was a pain to get those electrical wires through the 3 mm masts...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3298845172_1295fb8e2a.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3298018221_a998345041.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3298019127_aeeaecb7cc.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3297/3298858280_9a1e9f6e91.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/3298019965_d4aa25105f.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3298848682_6fa8c02766.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3655/3298021889_01962054a8.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3298855120_71016e5f85.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3301/3298857258_de8bc864e9.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/3298026553_3d4cac3417.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3445/3298028691_a73f383fc8.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Martin (Admin) on February 22, 2009, 11:59:22 am
Excellent! And I'm guessing photography is a hobby of yours as well!    :-))
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on February 22, 2009, 01:56:06 pm
woow .......great boat ,,,,,,and photos+++++++++
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on April 05, 2009, 08:34:40 pm
The maiden voyage:

(actually it's the third maiden voyage, but with all the excitement I had forgotten the camera at home for the first two  ;) )


(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3415610458_afb2eb4f36.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3415391854_8cbec52cef.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3415604142_4f6c5cb14b.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3414799613_b47636b6ca.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3371/3415608422_f17d597d80.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/3415612338_9f6c405ba0.jpg)

And the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-JMdYt1Dds
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on April 06, 2009, 06:39:56 am
GREATTTTT .....YOU HAVE DON A GREAT JOB WITH THIS,,,,,,,FIRST CLASS PHOTOS TO

REGARDS BERNHARD
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on April 06, 2009, 08:51:46 am
Beautiful on the water.  That first shot looks very authentic and the low angle gives it a great sense of realism.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: ronkh on April 06, 2009, 10:30:25 am
Brilliant! :-)) :-))
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on April 06, 2009, 03:25:54 pm
Thaks guys, I almost got my camera in the water trying to take the pictures.   :embarrassed:
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on April 07, 2009, 07:55:26 am
Those low angles always produce the best most realistic shots but you have to be carefull with your camera!  A waterproof one might be a good idea such as the Olympus Stylus 770SW type or later versions.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on April 16, 2009, 03:39:27 pm
Hi!

Another film of the tug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoQ8Haun4k
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 26, 2009, 08:57:46 pm
Back with some news!

I have decided to make some changes to the tug. Been working on a new smoke stack lately and here are some pics.

Made it from brass tubing, 40 mm diameter and some sheet brass, all soldered together:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4047010703_7941932c28.jpg)

Then made a steam whistle (seen on the thread with the new engine too). The particular thing about it is that it's made using only 3 different diameters of brass pipe. Quite easy to do at home without specialized tools:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3521/4011677149_855939e220.jpg)

Fitting the smoke stack:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3527/4047754084_fe7c58319f.jpg)

The finished stack, with whistle and exhaust steam pipe (either for the safety valve, or for the engine exhaust, haven't yet decided what to run through it).
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2774/4044606506_efa62f73ae.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2203/4043864101_74906e2c97.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/4044597902_a0bf881100.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2771/4044608606_afcf4d68c2.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2722/4043854387_65e6426687.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/4044604088_6b600a1d62.jpg)

Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Gyula on October 27, 2009, 08:55:19 am
Nice job  :-)
Can you give some details for the whistle?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 27, 2009, 10:16:21 am
Sure. I have used 3, 4, 5 and 6 mm pipes. 3 for the steam pipe, 6 for the whistle body, and 4 & 5 for making the inner steam channel and lip.
I have forgotten to take pictures with the unassembled parts, but it's really easy to build. Let me know if you need more info.

By the way, here is a video test of the new set-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv1SFV-0ONA
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: derekwarner on October 27, 2009, 10:29:52 am
Hi kno3....we can clearly see the substantial increase in the funnel diameter......what prompted the need for change?.......

Why have you chosen external chinmey flat black?...........have you yet attempted to polish the associated brass tubes?...but it is really important to spray the internal of the chimney flat black O0

OK....... {-) I like the way you have taken the steam plant out in your home dockyard & run a temporary steam line to the whistle  %% O0 {-)

1) I too would be very interested in the manufacturing detail of your steam whistle construction ...as comercially produced units are way TOO large........& the dimension/proportions you have displayed look  :-))
2) do you take the steam source/supply prior to the Winfried lubricator?
3) what type of steam valve do you use for this function?

......regards Derek  
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on October 27, 2009, 10:59:00 am
I think the whistle is open to interpretation and there are probably a number of ways of achieveing a credible model.  Mine is a copper pipe into it with a short section of brass tube slid over it.  The cap on top was cut from a brass handrail mount and the lever was fabricated from a piece of thin brass plate, held in place by an old brass BA screw.  The hole was cut with a triangular file into the face of the brass tube.  I gave it a coat of tamiya clear smoke, which accentuates the shadows nicely and it will get a dusting of matt black 'soot' when the funnel is finished along with a cord from the valve handle to the bridge.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 27, 2009, 11:17:04 am
Bunkerbarge:
Is you whistle working with steam or just static? Seems very small, that's why I'm asking. I agree, there are many ways to make it. Mine is a compromise between scale looks and function. I would have liked to make it even shorter to look more realistic, but then the pitch would have been absurdly high.

Derek:
I have this new smoke stack because I have installed the new steam plant in the tugboat. You can see here how it fits:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2619/4047014169_ccd9d21551.jpg)

And a pic of the steam plant outside of the boat, where you can see how the whistle is connected:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2766/4044613088_6ae19911b1.jpg)
Click here for the large resolution version http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2766/4044613088_6ae19911b1_b.jpg

I happen to like this flat black and it is a really tough paint (car exhaust paint from VHT), and to me it suits the boat. I didn't spray the inside of the chimney though, didn't think about that. I guess it will blacken over time anyway  ok2

The brass parts of the smoke stack are polished with a metal brush.

The steam source for the whistle is taken directly from the boiler, as you can see in the high resolution pic. I have used a special Regner whistle valve, which I have modified (changed the M5x0,5 thread on the bottom to M6x0,75, to fit the boiler).

It's hard to describe the manufacturing of the whistle in writing. I am going to try to make a drawing or maybe take detail pics when I make a new whistle.


Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: muduck on October 27, 2009, 11:48:24 am
 :-)) What a great build.....love the detail..
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on October 27, 2009, 12:31:04 pm
Yes, sorry, I should have mentioned mine is only a static version, it doesn't actually function.  I agree with what you say about a balance between tone and realism and I think you've just about got the compromise spot on there.

I decided mine was complicated enough without adding any further 'bells' and 'whistles', excuse the pun!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on October 28, 2009, 07:44:07 am
hi .......looks reale good,,,,cant be better,and with the new plant in ,,it cant be better....i use a wilesco whistle in my African queen,,,works fine,,,

Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 28, 2009, 11:10:54 am
Nice! But I can't recognize the Wilesco whistle. You changed it a lot.
By the way, what boiler and engine are those?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on October 28, 2009, 04:27:03 pm
hi Thanks...the boiler is made by Macsteam..the enginen  is from the 1930ties,,,,i use a drain valve to the whistle and a littel spring,,
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on October 28, 2009, 07:12:25 pm
Interesting boiler. Does it have vertical fire tubes inside? What kind of burner?

Is it a special order, as I can't find it on Maccsteam's website?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on October 28, 2009, 09:46:03 pm
hi...........no it is made just as i ask Mike to do,,,in the size i wont...he do boilers just as you  like them,,,,,,,it is a,,ceramic burner
,,,,,just the streight tubes you can see..........he is real nice fast and make them to a faire price,,,,,,,,,,ok
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 12, 2010, 02:48:16 pm
Looks like I have forgotten to add the latest developments to this topic...  :D

You probably got used by now to me making steam plants for this tug, so here is yet another one (the dark green one seen previously proved to be a bit too heavy for this little hull). Made using a Saito boiler, a Stuart v-twin engine, a Regner gas tank, a Cheddar lubricator and a Maccsteam burner. Is it international enough?  :D The base, chimney, pipes, condenser are home-made.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5058089030_07c08528bf.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5058089030/)2010-06-26 001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5058089030/) by -kno3-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/47590525@N04/), on Flickr

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5058089252_1dde2b2e2b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5058089252/)2010-06-26 005 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5058089252/) by -kno3-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/47590525@N04/), on Flickr

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4714834813_3759e532c0.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/4714834813/)011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/4714834813/) by -kno3-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/47590525@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 12, 2010, 02:50:59 pm
Here are some more pictures of the tug in it's current configuration. There is (yet another!) smoke stack. This time it is made from aluminium, to be light. I have re-used the brass base, whistle and exhaust pipe from the older one. Also mounted a new steam scale propeller from Propshop.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5067859294_e4c00cf878.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5067859294/)2010-10-10 006 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5067859294/) by -kno3-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/47590525@N04/), on Flickr

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5067859488_77e42755ff.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5067859488/)2010-10-10 007 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47590525@N04/5067859488/) by -kno3-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/47590525@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: rathikrishna on November 12, 2010, 03:09:31 pm
Good evening..and GOOOOOODDDDDDDD.......its an AWESOME WORK...............OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH.......may i save some photos of you Sir...?
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: gondolier88 on November 12, 2010, 03:12:17 pm
It gets better every time!!! That is a very neat and compact plant.

Greg
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 12, 2010, 03:49:54 pm
Sure, you can save them for personal use.
And thanks guys!
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KBIO on November 12, 2010, 07:48:49 pm
Good evening! :-)
A hell of a good job KNO3! :-)) Congratulations! :-)) Coper & wood looks nice to my eyes! O0
If I can make a remark; be carefull with the type of condenser , you are building. It will store the water, cool it down but due to its shape , this water may cause back pressure on the outlet of your engine & thus decrease tremandlously its efficiency.
You may try it but if you have any problem, think of it. And get a vertical condenser (Cheddar type with tangantial inlet is very smart) . In fact, passed the warming up of the installation, the steam wil escape and generate very few condensation.
A friend of mine has run a pipe all along his boat ,underneath, to catch the water back in a tank and  to re-inject into the boiler. The water laying in the pipe was enough to have the engine loosing lot of power. The steam could not exaust easily. It has taken a while before we found out! Keep in mind that steam exaust must be free and a bit of vaccum there would be the top! But this is another story to engineer it! >>:-(
Regards!


Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: derekwarner on November 12, 2010, 09:39:12 pm
kno3......this vessel has had I think 3 x differing engine & boiler configurations  {-), but each one beautifully presented  :-))

KBIO....I am unsure of your comment .... "It will store the water, cool it down but due to its shape , this water may cause back pressure on the outlet of your engine"

Is it just the tangential inlet that concerns? ....& the swirling to 180 degrees only....? .... very interesting....Derek
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KBIO on November 12, 2010, 10:20:14 pm
Sorry! I was completly out of the picture.   :embarrassed:
For any reason, I thought that KNO3's condenser was build to be installed , flat, underneath the boiler. %%
Now I saw it standing along side the vertical boiler and what i wrote previously is non sense.  {:-{ >>:-(
Thus, concerning the tangential entrance in a condenser (Cheddar type), I like it as it creates a cyclone wiith water condensing on the walls  and the steam stream escaping freely in the middle top.
Damned! I still have to step backward, learn to read and think twice before to say anything! Some (like me) will never learn. %)
Still, I go on admiring KNO3's tug! :-))
Regards :-)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: derekwarner on November 12, 2010, 11:20:16 pm
Thats OK.... :embarrassed: ...KBIO...I also am guilty of typing first & asking later.......

kno3....one point you could consider.. O0 is insulating the exhaust steam line from the engine to the condenser........the basis for this is maintaining the highest possible steam temperature in the line & the resultant greatest cooling differential as the steam enters the non insulated condenser  %) ......Derek

PS1...I have not before seen the YELLOW  Regner rectangular body gas tank  %%
PS2...what has happened to that beautiful  :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: Winfried Niggle quartz lens bodied lubricator? 
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: rathikrishna on November 13, 2010, 06:38:29 am
thank you..respected friend...
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 13, 2010, 08:58:27 am
Thats OK.... :embarrassed: ...KBIO...I also am guilty of typing first & asking later.......

kno3....one point you could consider.. O0 is insulating the exhaust steam line from the engine to the condenser........the basis for this is maintaining the highest possible steam temperature in the line & the resultant greatest cooling differential as the steam enters the non insulated condenser  %) ......Derek

PS1...I have not before seen the YELLOW  Regner rectangular body gas tank  %%
PS2...what has happened to that beautiful  :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: Winfried Niggle quartz lens bodied lubricator? 

I'm not convinced that insulating the steam line to the condenser would bring much, but it should help me not get my fingers burned if I accidentally touch it  :-)

Regarding the gas tank, look it up in the Regner catalogue at page 53: http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/online_katalog/index.html

The Niggel lubricator is still part of the other steam plant, which is patiently waiting for a new boat:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/4011638321_9bcb994733.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28865130@N04/4011638321/)
2009-10-14 003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28865130@N04/4011638321/) by -kno3- (http://www.flickr.com/people/28865130@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bunkerbarge on November 13, 2010, 10:09:48 am
I personally think it is a good idea to lag the exhaust steam line.  At this point the steam is ready to convert back to water and the slightest reduction in temperature will help this.  After going through the seperator to try to remove the water then letting the temperature drop is defeating object a bit.  I would defenately lag the pipe, and, as you say, it's one less to burn your fingers on.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: derekwarner on November 15, 2010, 09:46:02 am
Hi knor3.....from your .jpgs below it is clear that the Regier gas tank as installed cannot be easily remover for refilling  {:-{

We see a different type of refilling valve [over the bogstandard Ronson type]....[no offence to John Moore  <*<] .....

Is there an advantage in the filling procedure?..is it a non leak varient? :o  .....Derek

Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: kno3 on November 15, 2010, 10:51:57 am
Derek, the tank is actually not hard to remove should it be needed. But have fastened it to the base with a brass strap because I always remove the whole steam plant for cleaning. So I fill the gas tank when it's out of the boat. If I'll have to refill at the lake, I can just remove that strap and then the tank comes out easily.

Regarding the Regner gas filling valve, it seems a little easier to fill than the valves used in British tanks, which are very small and finicky.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on June 24, 2012, 09:26:01 am
Hi all, time for another update.

It might come unexpected, but the steam plant described on the previous page is due for replacement. No, it didn't break down or anything, it's just that I think there is a better combination or boiler, engine and gas tank possible.

Here's what I think the shortcomings of the last plant are:
- The engine has 4 cc volume (11 by 11 mm cyls) and is too big for the 45 mm propeller. This combination wastes steam. Since I cannot fit a lager prop, due to the space at the stern, the engine must be replaced.
- The gas tank with 38 ml is too small, it runs out of gas when the boiler is still over 1/2 full.

So I have decided to dismantle the steam plant. The engine, gas tank and boiler are going to the display shelf for now, I will reuse the other components in the future steam plant.

Here are the requirements for the new steam plant for the tug:

1. Self-starting and reversing engine around 2 cc to match the 45 mm prop.
2. Boiler suitable for the engine, could be the same as the old one or similar.
3. Gas tank of around 100 ml

I'll try to reuse the steam plant's alu base, the burner, condenser, the superheater and maybe other fittings.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on June 24, 2012, 03:34:20 pm
Hi..ohh it is sooo nice a Tug,,,,,,,,, can a Cheddar Pintail not do it...or a small regner...

Regards
Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on June 25, 2012, 09:23:36 am
Thanks Bernhard. Which small Regner would you recommend?
I was indeed thinking of using a Cheddar Pintail since I was lucky to get one recently.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on June 25, 2012, 07:06:53 pm
Hii,,,Try the Pintail...i have one to...strong liittle engine it is,,,,,,,,

Regards
Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on June 27, 2012, 09:29:48 am
Here's the new Saito boiler with a bushing for the water gauge silver soldered.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/2012-06-17002.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on June 27, 2012, 08:08:10 pm
Here are most of the parts for the new steam plant gathered, awaiting a pickle bath.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_fd6b8b50.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/fd6b8b50.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on June 29, 2012, 08:31:11 pm
Here are the Saito boiler and Cheddar Pintail freshly painted, baked, and the engine assembled.
Although it ran well before, I have also lapped all port and valve faces of the Pintail engine, because there were some scratches visible.

Boiler lagging and steam plant assembly come next.

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_2ade2310.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/2ade2310.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_3cda23cb.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/3cda23cb.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on July 19, 2012, 05:45:25 pm
The boiler being insulated with a layer of felt. This will be covered with mahogany strips.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_b1933db8.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/b1933db8.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on July 19, 2012, 05:52:26 pm
I haven't taken pictures of all the assembly steps, so here is the new compact steam plant nr. 4 ready assembled:

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_e2a4ea7e.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/e2a4ea7e.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_c2b2fa2d.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/c2b2fa2d.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_cd14e73b.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/cd14e73b.jpg)

In the hull:

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_d10e9695.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/d10e9695.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/th_867dab87.jpg) (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/calin1000/Steam%20plant%20nr%204/867dab87.jpg)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Bernhard on July 19, 2012, 08:58:04 pm
Hi,,,,It real look and fit perfect, i like your great looking tug boat. :-))..a nice size it is,,,,easy to bring around to...

Regards Bernhard
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: derekwarner on July 19, 2012, 11:46:14 pm
Very compact KNO3  :-)) ...

I like the new vertical de-oiler
Is the boiler steam relief valve combined in the steam line into the lubricator?
Can you isolate the steam in the boiler?
What is the lever actuated valve at boiler height just near the gas tank end?.... the lever appears in the second image as being retained by an elastic band...could this be for the whistle?  :embarrassed:
What is the second component mounted between the chimney and the boiler relief valve?

This is why some love steam.......all very interesting :kiss: .......please more photographs as you progress................Derek
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on July 20, 2012, 03:08:35 pm
Thanks all!  :-)

@derekwarner_decoy: The "new" condensate tank is actually the old one :-)
The safety valve is the one on top of the cross-shaped fitting, close to the manometer.
Yes you can isolate the steam in the boiler because on the small dome there is a steam regulation / stop valve. The steam pipe goes from it into the chimney, to a superheater coil, and then to the oiler.
The lever valve with rubber band you asked about is a whistle valve. It will be connected to the whistle on the exterior of the boat's smoke stack via a silicone tube.
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: KNO3 on July 21, 2012, 12:24:15 pm
Hi all,
Here's the first steam test after finishing the steam plant. I have added the whistle which normally sits on the tug's (outer) chimney.

http://youtu.be/sN8JK_YAvI0 (sorry, I can't get the video to embed on this forum, perhaps a moderator can fix that)
Title: Re: My RC live steam tugboat / icebreaker
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on July 21, 2012, 09:51:55 pm

Your link works fine.

Sorry, but we do not embed videos into the Mayhem Forum.

regards

ken