Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: Dave Leishman on April 15, 2006, 09:57:03 pm
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I suspect the vast majority of builders use car type paints to spray models and although I do use those on occasion I do prefer the airbrush. I find it gives more control, especially where models are for display only and not for r/c.
I've been using Humbrol, but find the standard pot sizes too small and the larger sizes are limited to common colours, such as black, white, etc. It can also be a nightmare trying to find enough pots of the same colour from a single supplier - usually I have to order from two or more.
Does anyone know of any paint manufacturer or supplier that covers a large colour range, but sells in larger quantities (either acrylic or enamel)?
I've been trying to find out if any car paint manufacturer supply their paint in tins suitable for use in an airbrush (rather than aerosols). I suppose they must supply it to the motor trade, but so far I haven't come across anyone that also supplies to the public.
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I was told by a bodyshop guy that they mix their own shades from a limited range of standard colours using data supplied by the manufacturers which is also recorded on the vehicle somewhere. So many parts of white to so many parts of blue and so many parts of green etc. A bit like B&Q I suppose... Halfords simply supply them ready mixed in aerosol form.
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Look for "Auto Refinishing Factor" in Yellow Pages. My local one supplies over the counter for cash in 500mL tins, any shade, whatever solvent, and they ask if it's for brushing or spraying.
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Colin: I've just had the door replaced on my Volvo after it connected rather noisily with a concrete lampost and I remember the bodyshop guy writing down the number displayed through the windscreen when I took it in to be evaluated. I guess that was the colour code.
Malcolm: I'll give that a go - thanks! :D
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Hi DAVE,You could try Squires Model And Craft Tools,they carry a vast range of Humbrol paints,also many other useful items like miniature rope,blocks etc.I get a lot of my modelling gear from there.The phone no.is 01243 842424,call them and they`ll send you a free catalogue.
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Hi Dave
I've used Liquitex Artist's Acrylics which come in 59ml plastic containers. They are concentrated and need thinning for brushing and spraying. They have a large range of colours and are available from artist suppliers. Most importantly they work out slightly cheaper than the tinlets. :)
HTH
Doug
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Hi Dave
There is another way to get the exact colours that you want in bigger quantities, and cheaper than most places!
Go to B&Q or Homebase etc and buy a 250ml tin colour sampler of the colour you need ( they say they can match any colour in the ads!!).
These sample tins are matt waterbased paint. Apply this by brush or thin down to spray and when dry seal with gloss/satin/matt varnish as required(at least two coats!!). I have been doing this for years and have never had a problem yet! 8)
It was the only alternative cost effective option to a small fortune in other paints for my big scale Mersey Lifeboat!!
Mike
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Some good tips here guys - thank you!
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Hi Dave,
Nip into a Depot or Homebase and have a look at the Plasti Kote range. Most things from red oxide primer to clear acrylic finnish. Comes in rattle cans and pots suitalbe for use in air brush. I have used it on three models now with no problems.
Yours Colin H.
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car paint suppliers can match to a particular colour the same as B&Q can.
Has to be a decent paint specialist though, not halfords as they barely know how to work the machine.
There are about 100 base colours, which go into make specific paints, including aditives for Perl and metalics.
The paint code on the car doesnt tell you the mix, just the colour name. You then have to look up this code in the paint makers book (or microfiche) to see what the mix is.
My Mini is 'Rover Hawaiian Blue' which has a code of 'JFK' you then have to look this up in the paint makers book to get the specific mix, ie. 10 grams of perl, 10grams of blue no3 etc
When they ask if its for spraying for brushing (who the hell brush paints a car!?) they just mix it 50/50 with thinners for spraying.
Anyone tried international Yacht paint? designed for boats after all. or Epoxy Yacht paints?
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Yacht paints are exceptionally durable and probably overkill for modelling purposes. many are two part formulations but you can get one part enamels such as International's Toplac or the Blakes equivalent which are supposed to last twice as long as conventional enamels. I have used Toplac in a non modelling context and it is certainly a superb paint but with a price to match. If you have a large hull to paint in white gloss or a standard colour then it's worth considering but otherwise specialiost modelling paints would be best.
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Hi Dave,
Nip into a Depot or Homebase and have a look at the Plasti Kote range. Most things from red oxide primer to clear acrylic finnish. Comes in rattle cans and pots suitalbe for use in air brush. I have used it on three models now with no problems.
Yours Colin H.
I saw a display stand of Plasti Kote today in B&Q that included a number of 50ml tubs however, before I could have a good look I was dragged off to garden furniture...I'll never understand women...
I'll sneak back for a closer examination when I manage to slip my leash next time ;D
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I use the Plastikote tins of spray for some of my other modelling hobbies ( model wargames figures and tanks ) and so long as you make sure you have a good even coat of undercoat ( I use Halfords matt black undercoat in 500ml spray cans ) then you will get a good coverage and even colour. You even get a matt plastikote sealer which , i'm assuming , is a liquid air drying plastic which looks shiny for a few weeks but soon dulls down and the level of protection you get is pretty good. I've sprayed metal tanks with the sealer and accidentally dropped one or two and the paint hasn't chipped yet ( which is a miracle for me !! ) so it should be good enough for model boats hulls.It is external weather rated so should be fine in the water.
Davie
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Hi Davie..
Did you get any reaction to the halford stuff and the Plastikote?
Declan
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Hi Declan,
Don't know about Halfords but Plasti Kote hates Humbrol or Humbrol hates Plasti Kote can't remember which way round it was but I will not make the mistake again. I ended up with a tar like substance which took ages to scrape off and rub down.
Yours Colin H.
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Cheers Colin_H
I know I have details somewhere about one not liking the other but couln't remember which one. I'll have a look on the old puter to see what I have. My computer is looking more and more like my shed - Full of cr*p. Then again I'm a IT guy.
NO!! Not a nerd!!
Declan
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Hi Davie..
Did you get any reaction to the halford stuff and the Plastikote?
Declan
No Declan guess I was lucky but the Black Halfords undercoat didn't react to the Plastikote Green spray that I used. The only thing i've found it that if you use the Plastikote sealer whatever you do DO NOT use superglue once its been sprayed. The superglue reacts with the liquid plastic and goes a bit like white foam around the glue bond. Its fine it the superglue has had a chance to completely set before being sprayed but definately not to be reccomended after spraying.
Davie
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The automotive trade can mix thousands of colours fron what would appear to be a limited chioce of base colours.
Now the "Trade" is changing from solvent based colours (cellulose) to water based ones.
Fortunately for me, my ex boating collegue (now a flyer) owns a spray shop so I can get colours (such as Ford Lipstick Pink - a plumb-like colour) made up they still add isocynate to the paint to cut down the drying time. The cost is not cheap - some of the base colours cost three figures a litre! - but it is worth it.
The clear coat laquer used on metallic finished cars is fuel proof. The boat used in my avatar is Rover's Vermillion with a clear laquer which was applied after the decals.
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I sprayed at the weekend a model with Plastikcote white. Then I painted Humbrol acrylic over the top last night. The result this morning was a crazed finish on the acrylic, so now I have to scrape/ remove/ swear at the Humbrol and start again with a oil based paint. Ah well we live and learn and learn and learn etc etc.
Daryl
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Hi,
There was a long thread on the old MB forum re plastikoat.
It reacts when it feels like it.
I had a boat that got a scratch on the plastikoat finish, so I gave it another coat and it reacted to itself.
I'm sure others out there will remember the topic.
Bob
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The automotive trade can mix thousands of colours fron what would appear to be a limited chioce of base colours.
Now the "Trade" is changing from solvent based colours (cellulose) to water based ones.
Fortunately for me, my ex boating collegue (now a flyer) owns a spray shop so I can get colours (such as Ford Lipstick Pink - a plumb-like colour) made up they still add isocynate to the paint to cut down the drying time. The cost is not cheap - some of the base colours cost three figures a litre! - but it is worth it.
The clear coat laquer used on metallic finished cars is fuel proof. The boat used in my avatar is Rover's Vermillion with a clear laquer which was applied after the decals.
What! ?1.00 :o
Ould misery guts ;D ;D
Declan
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I must have missed that thread on Plastikoat, I have another boat to spray white but I am having second thoughts in case it reacts again. Strange stuff. perhaps I'll stick to Halfords.
Regards
Daryl
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I've just been spraying some wargamming terrain and i've found a problem with the plastikote that i've not seen before. I undercoated with my usual Halfords black matt ,left it 24hrs to dry completely, painted all the details in Acryllic paint,again left it to dry for 24hrs then sprayed the plastikote sealer onto it only to find that some of the colours have run into each other. Very unusual since Acryllic paint needs to be removed with brake fluid normally once its dry and cetainally would never wash out of clothes ( as I know to my cost !! ). Think i'll have to rethink using the plastikote again. I'm going to start using Halfords matt car sealer from now on. The Halfords car paints seem to be fine for me but i'm going to throw out the plastikote stuff in the morning........and stick all the terrain I made into a sealed tub filled with brake fluid to remove everything and start again :-\ :-\
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This is all a bit worrying! I must admit I have stayed clear of Plasticote to date because of the phrase "Plasti" which suggests possible incompatibility. However, as was stated in the old MB thread, many problems are caused by leaving insufficient time for the underlying coating to cure which can be surprisingly long in some cases. Has anyone got any wisom on the possible use of a heat source e.g. hairdryer to speed up curing times?
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Hi,
Colin is quite right abour the drying times for pasti kote the instructions are miss leading to say the least. 40 minutes touch dry etc.
I leave every coat 48 hours but thats in my shed. I have just sprayed an Atlantis plura hull and following advice from the previous forum used a promotor 1 coat. After that I followed with 3 coats palsti kote red oxide. Then above water line in plasti coat something green 3 coats followed by a white plastic strip (you know the stuff for fly boys) to form the water line. Finally 3 coats plasti kote clear acrylic no problems at all. Hull as been in the water and all appears stable at this time.
Probably b---dy peel of tomorrow now I have written this post. ??? ??? ???
Yours Colin H.
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Hi Colin H..
What brand of promoter are you using. It it the 3M version?
I just obtained some from my brother who works for a big car dealer franchise. They use it on plastic panels as it helps the paint to adhere better - apparently ;D
Declan
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Me finks it was Stavros who was kind enough to enlighten us to the wonders of paint and promoters on the MB forum.
Declan
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This is all a bit worrying! I must admit I have stayed clear of Plasticote to date because of the phrase "Plasti" which suggests possible incompatibility. However, as was stated in the old MB thread, many problems are caused by leaving insufficient time for the underlying coating to cure which can be surprisingly long in some cases. Has anyone got any wisom on the possible use of a heat source e.g. hairdryer to speed up curing times?
I tend to leave any spray undercoated models in my kitchen once the fumes have almost completely dispersed ( my father has Empysema(sp?) and the smell of tin spray paint makes him ill ) and I leave them on a table about 4ft from the heater for at least 24hrs. I would NOT reccomend you try to speed up the curing of the paint. The car repair people have a car sized autoclave which heats the entire car up after spraying , but here's the thing about that , its a totally even heat , constant and regulated for 6 hours so any attempt to use a hairdryer only means uneven heating/curing which could lead to the paint flaking off later on.
Davie
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Thanks for that Davie, it sounds entirely sensible. You just have to let things take their natural course and use the product within the quoted temperature parameters. I suppose it's all about chemical reactions really. Trouble is, most of us are too impatient!
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Hi Declan,
You are quite right it was Stavros (wonder where he is).
The stuff I obtained was Plastx 2 Adhesion Promotor from Unipart. ?12-06 for large rattle can. I did some tests on spare bits before applying to the hull. Sprayed one piece with promotor and one with out. Then did drop test etc the promotor certainly made a difference. I would expect to get at least four large models out of the tin. and would reccomend it use to anyone.
yours Colin H.
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http://www.spraypaint.co.uk/Site/
All the plasticote colours listed there.
One think it is good for is where heat is involved. I've sprayed car brakes with the stuf and it's never burnt off and is resistant to even brake dust.
I'd say it would be excelent to paint say an IC boat as the exhaust heat wont affect it. They even do a 'hot' paint that resisits about 2000deg C so you could paint an exhaust with it.
If found with my car spraying if you try and make plasticote dry quicker with a hair dryer etc, then you lose some of the gloss. Let it cure at it's own rate in a warm dry area then it gives a really good gloss.
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To use up the can I have just sprayed Plastickote clear on top of white, in places it has reracted by blistering. I'll wait until it has dried fully strange stuff it reacts when it feelds like it
I'll never use this stuff again.
Daryl
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Hi,
I have used toplac with great success, but it did need several coats with lots of rubbing down with fine wet and dry. One thing I did though was warm the tin in hot water for a while before starting, it helps it flow out.
I have also had success with humbrol tins thinned 50/50 with white spirit and put through an airbrush.
Ian
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I am back took the huff from model boats for a while due to some one who from the Gwynedd model group sank my Robbir Paula 111 wiht his tug bloomin bully!!!!! wont name and shame him but hey the wheel will revlove.As far as the reaction are in the question it is all to do with using oil based paints and overcoating with cellulose or acrilic the two will not mix.Oil baased paints will go over any substance but try overcoating with any other product and sxxt will happen,if it does well one has 2x options start again by scraping off or what the trade do,sand down,and seal the surface with a propriatory sealer or do as I do cheat and paint over with 2 pack clear laquer building up with dust coats finishing with a full wet coat aloow to dry and hey presto we are in business.Any questions feel free.It was so good to read that someone has taken heed of what I was saying opn the other forum and advocating the use of 3m adhesion promoter,good swag ;)
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Hi Stavros,
Glad you found us and welcome. Got a good catapult and some marbles that should sort out the tuggie.
Yes I took your advice about the promotor and darned good advice it was to. You only have to look at my Atlantis hull in the yachts section, not he best paint job in the world but for me I was more than satisfied. I put it down to starting the job correctly. The promotor seemed to help the primer go on smoothly and without runs or maybe I am starting to learn a little.
Many thanks Colin H.
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Hi all
I recently finished a 1/24th WWII MTB. I brush painted Humbrol all over. I used several of the tinlets, carefully mixed, then poured into a larger screw-top container and mixed again to keep the shade the same. I considered spraying but then thought that as the original was probably brush painted, so would my model be...complete with a few runs and uneven lines here and there (or is that because I'm actually useless at painting?)
I looked around for an alternative to the Humbrol, but couldn't find much and I only needed two greys, black and white!
Mike
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Check out Google my friend. There are many companies that provide this paint product. My suggestion is after you painted your car, you must apply paint protection film to prevent the paint from dirt and unnecessary things that can affect the quality of your paint.
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Hi T model train outlets they seem to have a large range and in bigger quantities in the jars ideal for air brushing. Brian
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Toolstation do some acrylic spray cans, very basic colours and a couple of primers...grey/red etc...... no fancy range, but cheaper than halfords.
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Any opinions on Rust-oleum brand "Painter`s Touch" spray cans from B&Q ? I recently tried one and it seems to be enamel, covers well to a smooth very high gloss.
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I used it on a fibreglass hull. Seems OK after 6 months. I finished with several clear coats and a final rubdown with Meguiare's rubbing compound (Halfords) to achieve a satin finish.