Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: 2772e on November 04, 2006, 09:12:33 am

Title: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 04, 2006, 09:12:33 am

Can anyone recommend a supplier of thin guage wiring for nav and running lights please?

It needs to pass through the masts etc.

Prefereably the same wire/thickness that comes with commercial lights.

They never give you enough in the packs for the top of the mast?

 ??? ???

Regards

Simon

Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: DickyD on November 04, 2006, 09:28:58 am
Would telephone wire be to thin

Richard :-\
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 04, 2006, 09:31:58 am
Richard,

Tried that sorry, single core and too stiff.

Really need v thing sheathed multi core to get the flexibility.

 ::)
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: RickF on November 04, 2006, 09:33:03 am
Or visit your local Maplins/RS Components (both on line) for miniature extra flexible wire.

Rick
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Telstar on November 04, 2006, 10:02:58 am
Hi. I use computer Ribbon cable for this type of job, if your careful you can rip one ore two cores from the rest, one core is about one millimeter outside diameter, with 7strands of conductor inside. big advantage is where you need several wires along the same run, you just tear off the required number and glue it down flat ie under deks orinside cabin roofs etc.
Cheers Tom
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Dave Leishman on November 04, 2006, 10:35:31 am
I found a railway model supplier that sells 0.6mm multistrand wire in 10m lengths and, having ordered some, can say that it's perfect for the job.

www.expressmodels.co.uk (http://www.expressmodels.co.uk/acatalog/0_6mm_Diameter_Multistrand_cable_.html)
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: andywright on November 04, 2006, 10:37:20 am
I use wire available in dolls house shops, it is multistrand, flexible and thin.Usually comes in twin core, but you can run a number of wires , if you use a brass mast, the negative return can got to the foot of the mast, and only a positve wire needs to be run from the individual lights, the light negative is then soldered to the mast in close proximity to the light. I run steaming light, 3 towing lights and not under command (NUC lights )all off one negative return.
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: portside II on November 04, 2006, 12:24:19 pm
 ;Dthe last boat i fitted nav lights/mast lights to (zwartzee) i used thin brass wire up each side of the mast soldered and painted .almost invisible. ::)
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: wombat on November 04, 2006, 01:36:07 pm
Alternatively try 0.15mm enamelled copper wire. Very thin and reasonably flexible, can take enough mA for  bulb. Only thing is that you need to mark the runs to ensure correct wiring.

Tim the Wombat
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: cbr900 on November 04, 2006, 02:06:38 pm
And as a last alternative I have taken the ends off a couple of old parallel port computer cables, some of them have twenty five core inside, perfect for running lights ....



Roy
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Peterm on November 04, 2006, 02:14:12 pm
I buy dolls house lighting wire.   Pete M
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on November 04, 2006, 02:15:56 pm
http://www.maplin.co.uk/search.aspx?MenuNo=56068&MenuName=ALARM%20CABLE&FromMenu=y&DOY=4m11

Strips down into 4,6 or 8 strands, all individually insulated and colour-coded. Simple stuff works best for me.
Suit yourself.
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Malc Reade on November 04, 2006, 02:49:49 pm

If you are going to Warwick next weekend, we will have the wire that we use for our working lights for sale on our stand in 2 Metre lengths.  It's multi-strand copper, very thin and flexible with black insulation.

Regards, Malc


Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 04, 2006, 09:34:13 pm
Well, spent all afternoon sodding around with the lights, getting the radar working and finishing a couple of bits on the aerials.

Tried the suggestions of earthing out on the brass, works really well, thanks. Now i only have to run run one wire down the tube. So simple when you know how.

Whats the best way of powering the lights/radar etc in the superstructure and still making it removable without having wires running all over the place?

Has anyone tried a quick release thingy. Thought of a couple of springs, one on each side on the cabin touching brass plates on the deck, saves the wires me thinks?

Any one got any suggestions please?

Thanks Malc, cant make it. Going into London Sunday for Armistice Day. See you another time.

Regards

Simon
 :D :D
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Malc Reade on November 04, 2006, 10:02:24 pm


Simon

Not that anybody would try to persuade you to miss the Armistice Day events, but a two minute silence is rightfully observed at 11am on the 11th of November at the Leamington Spa show.

Have a peaceful day in London.

Regards, Malc



Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: cbr900 on November 04, 2006, 11:12:13 pm
Simon,

All I usually do with lights and radar is attach a small pack of double A batteries 3.6 volt, to the underside of the superstructure and there is no problem with removing the top as it is not connected by wires, it is suprising how long the pack will last as the draw in minimal....



Roy
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Malc Reade on November 04, 2006, 11:58:24 pm


And as Roy has pointed out previously, at 3.6 Volts, you can run LED's without resistors...

Malc


Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on November 05, 2006, 09:11:59 am
http://www.jaketalbot.com/actionkit/products.htm

Magnetic connectors (near bottom of this list).
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: dougal99 on November 05, 2006, 11:39:29 am
I used mini jack plugs and a coiled lead on my Brittany Trawler. This arrangement allows you to remove the superstructure easily to get at the motor, drive batterires etc without having to unplug the lights. However, if you need to remove the s/s some distance from from the hull you just unplug the jack plugs. The arrangement also means you don't have to line up the connectors when replacing the s/s.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Doc on November 05, 2006, 01:37:54 pm
Simon,
You have two options.  One is to place the power supply for the lights in the superstructure.  The other is to use a connector between superstructure and deck/hull.  The thingy about using springs and brass plates does work.  Not really all that difficult to do, but not as simple as it might seem either.  If the 'right' type of 'plug' assembly is used, it can also help keep the superstructure 'fixed' to the deck, sort of.  With all the different types of connectors around today you ought to be able to cobble something together that will work.
 - 'Doc

PS - Just going by the size of your boat in the picture, an 'add-on' cigar lighter ought'a work!
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Malc Reade on November 05, 2006, 01:50:54 pm

A Tamiya connector works as well as anything else...

Malc

Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Craig Kane on November 05, 2006, 03:48:36 pm
I use metal repair tape (Speed-tape to us at work) which is ideal for making contacts.

Solder, or even stick, wires from the battery to a strip and form a makeshift busbar.  You can then have similar on the removeable portion of the superstructure to take the power wherever you need it to go.

Works well up to 12v for me............................just don't let the storeman know where all the speed tape has gone!!

Craig
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Scottie on November 20, 2006, 08:15:08 pm
I used cut down IDE connectors (hard drive and Cd rom stytle things) on my pusher tug Egrete.
Pictures on my web site - www.marine-modelling.co.uk

Scottie
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: cbr900 on November 21, 2006, 12:19:02 pm

Can anyone recommend a supplier of thin guage wiring for nav and running lights please?

It needs to pass through the masts etc.

Simon


Simon,

I just bought some rainbow cable, which is thirteen core wide and perfect for lights and radar, most electronic shops should have it, it can be easily stripped into one, two ,three and so fourth, and it is dirt cheap...........



Roy
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: chingdevil on November 21, 2006, 01:18:31 pm
Why not use copper tape for running up masts and inside cabins. The use it to run the power round dolls houses, it is self adhesive and you can solder to it. I would have thought that you could clad the mast in it then solder the lights at the top, then rough it up and paint it.
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Telstar on November 21, 2006, 02:02:53 pm
Roy
Your rainbow cable is my ribbon cable. It is is available up to 30 wires wide, and is also available in grey, makes it less conspicuous

Tom
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: flag-d on November 21, 2006, 02:57:01 pm
To connect removeable superstructure cabling, I use a set (male+female) of 9 pin D-type connectors.  Also handy as there's just enough resistance to hold the s/s in place.  I do like the idea of those metal tubes and rods though.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: OMK on November 21, 2006, 05:58:04 pm
For what it's worth, 2772e's question regarding thin guage wire, another possible solution could be the wire robbed from an old relay. On the upside it's thin, flexible, insulated and okay for stuffing inside masts', etc. You can also get miles of the stuff from old loudspeakers. Over here we call it enamel wire -- our Stateside cousins call it magnet wire, (right, Doc?). On the downside it's somewhat delicate and too puny for heavy loads. But if it's a case of running just the odd LED or ten - or in 2772e's case, a mast light - it works fine.

And while you're on the subject of connectors...
I struggled trying to figure an easy way to swap my Rx between boats without the usual hassle of plugging/unplugging all the connections. A 25-pin computer 'D' plug/socket was pressed into service. The attached photo shows said connector directly beneath the receiver. Ribbon cables are soldered from the appropriate pins to each and every servo and rc switch, etc. And although neatly glued and running parallel and ship-shape, I'm not entirely happy with the end result. A lot of work and a steady hand is needed with the soldering iron and if anything should go belly-up it's not so easy to repair without recourse to even more lots of work. In the end I abandoned the idea in favour of simply buying another Rx.
Maybe some of you with more noodle than I could adapt the same idea for better uses? After all, 'D' plug/sockets are dirt cheap and 25 pins gives you loads of scope for plenty of add-ons.
On the other hand, regarding the connections from the ship's interior to the super-structure, a bog-standard jack plug/socket  has proved the best so far. If you squint you can just make out the 3.5mm jack in the photo (it's partially obscuring the Rx). This is the jack from the R/C switch which mates with a 3.5mm socket on the s/s, which feeds the cabin lights.


I'm outta here before you paranoid lot accuse me of waffling.



Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: Peterm on November 21, 2006, 06:21:22 pm
I hate people who produce such nice tidy set-ups.   Although they work, mine always look like birds nests.   I am just jealous, of course.   Pete
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 21, 2006, 06:43:14 pm
Thanks Chaps,

In the end i found alarm wire broken down into single strands did the job at about 0.97mm.

As far as the connections are concerned, after a post concerning magnet connectors i ordered 1/2 a dozen to give them ago. They do the job fantastically, and keep the superstructure in situ, no wires. And at only 70p for a pair very cheap.

Thanks again to the Forum for advise and to Action for the connectors.

I will try and Post picture later

Regards

Simon
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 21, 2006, 06:58:19 pm
Magnet Pictures. Tidy is necessary!
 ;)
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: OMK on November 22, 2006, 04:24:59 am
Nice pictures, Simon.
But what's with the tubing around both motors? I mean, it's obviously a cooling system, but how does it work? Do those motors get THAT hot, then?

You work is excellent. VERY tidy!
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 22, 2006, 09:08:28 pm
Why, thank you Mr PMK.

The cooling tubes are from the old torpedo 850's i had, i thought they might handle the abuse of 18 volts better if they were cooled. How wrong was i, went up in smoke!

The motors are rated for 22,000 rpm and 20 volts and have a built in cooling fan, i thought, as i already had the tubes might as well keep them, lower heat = more power/run time. I have yet to put this too the test as the combination of motors/volts/props/esc was only sorted at the last outing and then the battery's went flat.

I prefer the vacuum version in the bottom of the hull, one pick, 2 small holes in front of each other, up along side each tube. Allot less drag and i find more efficient than the picks ups that sit in the prop wash. Discreet/cheap and effective. I also use one to cool a esc on another boat.

Have not had a chance to get out since then.

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: OMK on November 23, 2006, 12:08:11 am
So would I be right in thinking that the spinning of the motors causes a sort of syphon/pump action? If you see what I'm saying.
It's a clever idea. I've seen it used on IC boats, but I didn't realise it would work on electrics'.

You've obviously got good aptitude for neatness. Them pictures show the sort of quailty that I'm still striving for.
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: grasshopper on November 23, 2006, 10:09:28 pm
PMK

I think you might be a little confused with regards to the water cooling pipes seen in the photo'.

Usually, on the bottom of the hull will be a scoop, usually in close proximity to the prop, and water is forced into the ooling tube by the thrust from the prop and forward  motion of the boat. This is the most common form of water cooling.

Now if Simon will please explain his vacuum method I would be most grateful....and yes, you are tidy


Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 23, 2006, 10:27:05 pm
Thanks again for the compliments.

The water pick up is commercially available and whilst it has the same effect as the scoop in the prop wash i do not like them. Just preference.

Drill two holes one in front of the other in the hull about 3mm wide, along side the prop shaft and stick the small plastic pick up, screw it in and forget it. There is a small fence/barrier between first and second hole, this gives the effect of the vacuum/ sucking the air and then water through as the hull travels through the water. The drag is minimal and the faster the boat the more water cooling.

External picture enclosed. 

The unit is made by Robbe (i think) and i have purchased them through Hobbystores, and about four quid each.

I use one for each engine on my RTL and one for the motor and esc in the MTB.

 ;)
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: OMK on November 24, 2006, 11:00:27 pm
Thanks, Grasshopper. You're right - a bit confoozled I am.
I get the gist of what you're saying regarding the scoop idea. But in Simon's case I can't see how the water would get sucked up the tube in the first place. The words action and capillary spring to mind. So would that have anything to do with it? And if so, how?

In return for your know-how, here are tomorrow's winning lottery numbers...
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: grasshopper on November 24, 2006, 11:13:45 pm
My system is obvious, forward motion plus prop thrust, forces water up the scoop, through the tube, round the motor and out via the exit (above the waterline)

This vacuum method.....so the two holes are in line with the direction of travel, there's a small dam / fence between front and rear hole.
This means that the drag caused by the fence creates the vacuum and sucks at the rear hole, drawing water up the front hole - easy really,  and 'dam' clever -  sounds like it could make you eyes water tho'......sorry...I'll fetch me coat.

Now about these numbers....
Title: Re: Help needed on wire
Post by: 2772e on November 24, 2006, 11:41:00 pm
Now, now gentlemen. I dont thing this is the right forum for sucking through the back hole and water in the front. Or has all that glue, solder and paint casused me to log onto something accidently!

 ::) ::)