Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: benjaml1 on January 31, 2010, 04:44:26 pm
-
As close to the boiler as reasonably practical ( to keep it nice & toasty) or keep it far away ? Your thoughts please Gentlemen ?
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/benjaml1/DSC_2110.jpg)
-
I prefer toasty, although you do need to be able to operate the gas valve without being burnt.
You can always make a conductor of some sort to help warm the tank using the boiler.
Neil
-
Thank you for your fast response... :-))
-
Sometimes the gas pipe to the burner is enough to transfer some heat. I have a tank about an inch away from a cheddar boiler and it gets gently warmed from the pipe.
-
Everything is bolted down to a heavy brass bed, it was my intention that superfluous boiler heat be conducted though there to all components.. I plan isolate this hot zone from the vessel, the steam/power plant being easily removed as one unit for mtnc....
Thanks, nice to see I'm on the right path... :-))
-
how are you going to fill the gas tank ?
Peter
-
how are you going to fill the gas tank ?
Peter
It's got a "Ronson" connector ....Anything I should know about ? As I have said before, I'm new to this steam lark & am still learning... :embarrassed:
-
you should always take the tank out of the boat to fill it as the gas is heaver than air and will stay in the boat when you light the burner it will flash and if not damage your boat but can burn you quite badly. there have been a few posts on the subject recently
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22074.msg217398#msg217398
Peter
-
Many thanks for that Peter, I wasn't aware & will come up with something... :-)) Hmmmm...Battery powered leaf blower... %)
-
Many thanks for that Peter, I wasn't aware & will come up with something... :-))
If your tank is fixed to the base of the model and you have to fill it in place then you have to think of taking a few precautions. Have a look at what I did with my own build which was also restricted by having the gas tank fixed. As long as you are aware of all the potential dangers and ensure that you take every precautions to avoid them you should be as safe as any other method of filing.
I personally think the Ronson type of filling valves are not the safest of items and having liquid gas spitting all over your hands and clothing is something that needs to be avoided.
Have a look here at section Twelve:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6094.msg211975#new
-
Thanks for that, a quick scan showed some stunning work, I shall read it all with a favorite beverage... :-))
-
If your tank is fixed to the base of the model and you have to fill it in place then you have to think of taking a few precautions. Have a look at what I did with my own build which was also restricted by having the gas tank fixed. As long as you are aware of all the potential dangers and ensure that you take every precautions to avoid them you should be as safe as any other method of filing.
I personally think the Ronson type of filling valves are not the safest of items and having liquid gas spitting all over your hands and clothing is something that needs to be avoided.
Have a look here at section Twelve:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6094.msg211975#new
can you tell me a manufacture of model boiler gas tanks that does not use the Ronson type filler's ?,
I would not stay close by when you lit the boiler.
peter
-
can you tell me a manufacture of model boiler gas tanks that does not use the Ronson type filler's ?,
Of course not but it's easy to see why isn't it? If they fitted a proper valve it would never be the right thread or pipe size to suit everyone and, probably the biggest factor, they are cheap. However just because that's what a manufacturer gives you doesn't mean to say that is what you have to accept. With a Ronson type of valve you have absolutely no idea how much liquid you have put in the tank, unless you are in the habit of carrying around a set of scales in your pocket. This at the least can be inconvenient when the tank runs out before you thought it should or it can be hazardous when the tank is actually completely full because another severe deficiency is the fact that the valve does guarrantee you a maximum liquid level so you could even find that you do not have any free gas space left at the top after filing.
I prefer to know a little bit more about what is going on. When I've filled my tank I know exactly what level of liquid there is in there and I know that there is a gas space above the liquid. As I fill the vent valve is only just off it's seat so I'm loosing a minimal amout of gas and as soon as I see liquid I stop. It is simple and quite safe.
I'm not going to knock anyone who still prefers to use the Ronson type of filler, if they want to go for a walk in the woods and try to gas half the local squirrel population and waste as much gas as they manage to get into the tank they are a very effective device.
As always it's each to thier own and the important thing is that no matter what method you use you should be aware of the nature and dangers of gas and treat it accordingly. An example of this is that after each fill I blow the hull thriough with a small battery driven fan. This is only a precaution and I'm sure quite unecessary but you can't be too carefull. Before anyone says anything no, it isn't an intrinsically safe fan, I operate it from outside the hull!! I'm sure that sticking your head in there and blowing would be just as effective as well.
-
Bought one of these recently for its INTENDED purpose, SWTSMBO was highly impressed, 'Taint Missile Technology to adapt for gas extraction duties. DESPITE what the directions say, it is single speed and power requirements are USB or 5V to the uninitiated.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9184
Regards Ian.
-
I was wondering about the intrinsic safety of a DC powered extraction system, my reasoning for opting for this in the blower mode:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cougar-18V-Cordless-Blower-in-Black_W0QQitemZ140372077457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_GardenPowerTools_CA?hash=item20aed3eb91
It was pointed out to me that my deck fittings would need to be secure though... :embarrassed:
-
You only want to disperse a bit of settled gas, not remove the leaves from the back garden!! :o
-
I may fit an auxilliary sail.... :}
-
I've tucked mine in alongside the boiler, it is a warm position, every bit helps
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3755.50
Andy
-
I've tucked mine in alongside the boiler, it is a warm position, every bit helps
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3755.50
Andy
Thanks :-))
-
On my model of Canopus I put the gas tank next to the condensor, just touching it, for a degree of heat transfer. This works well and even on a cold day at the end of a run the gas tank is warm to touch.
This works well and is something I am building into my steam powered model of Velox.
G
-
Thanks for that Geoff... :-))
-
OK, filling the tank, how do you know when it's safely full ?? I know there should be an airspace etc.etc. Is there a sign to look for ?
-
I have been thinking the same thing during recent trials of my steam plant, how do you know when the tank is full? I got digital scales, which are fine once you establish what the tank should weigh when full. However how do you arrive at the figure, as you are never aware how full the tank really is.
further thought has lead me to arrive at the conclusion that BunkerBagre's method is the way forward. It appears the only way to be sure how much gas is in the tank. I am looking to modify my own tank from ronson type filler to using a valve with a dip tube.
Further to that, does anyone know what thread the ronson filler is?
Cheers Glenn
-
4.5 X .5mm
-
thanks Nick
-
No prob at all.
I actually had to order another one of these taps last week. Its considered a "special" tap. Instead of paying an arm and a leg for one through our normal machine tool supplier I managed to find one on Amazon for 5 bucks. The company who was selling it was Victor Machinery Exchange in Brooklyn, New York.
-
The thing is though if you are going to fit a normal valve in place of the Ronson type then surely you need a tap to suit the new valve rather than one to suit the Ronson valve?
-
The thing is though if you are going to fit a normal valve in place of the Ronson type then surely you need a tap to suit the new valve rather than one to suit the Ronson valve?
If you make the normal valve with the same thread as the Ronson you can always switch back if you want too.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Thanks for your help & thoughts guys
i haven't got any way of making a valve to fit the ronson thread, so it looks like its going to be drilled out & tapped to take 1/4 40 tpi valve.
Bunkerbarge, how long did you make your dip tube?
cheers Glenn
-
From what I remember I made the tube about 1/3 the diameter of the tank. This was supposed to give me enough of a gas space without too much reduction in liquid carrying capacity.
-
Glenn,
Who is the manufacturer of your refillable tank?
This is just an idea but the Ronson Valve bushing on the refillable tanks from Phil at Forrest Classics I believe are already tapped for both the Ronson valve as well as 1/4"-32 0r 1/4"-40. The tapped area of the bushing for the Ronson valve is recessed deep into the bushing as what you normally see on all refillable tanks. However on Phil's tanks the upper portion of this same bushing which protrudes above or outside of his tanks are tapped to 1/4"-32 or 1/4"40 I believe? This is done for being able to thread a fitting into the tank for hydro testing. I would call Phil first to confirm the thread type. My point is, if you have one of Phil's tanks than all you would need to do is simply remove the Ronson valve to allow your dip tube to pass through when you screw a globe valve into the upper portion of that bushing.
Actually I just thought of a another possibly better idea if you don't have one of Phil's tanks. Normally most refillable tank use a bushing which has the Ronson valve recessed deep into the bushing. If you're really careful you can remove the Ronson valve from your tank's bushing and just tap the upper portion of the bushing just deep enough to be above the threaded area which is tapped for the Ronson Valve. This way you can have your cake and eat it too. It's just an idea.
-
Thanks Bunkerbarge :-))
Nick, the tank isn't a commercial one, it was made by an engineer. Just had a look & your idea of just tapping the first half seems feasible, thanks for the idea
grateful thanks Glenn
-
Quote: "OK, filling the tank, how do you know when it's safely full ?? I know there should be an airs pace etc.etc. Is there a sign to look for "?
I read somewhere to open up the burner supply valve to allow venting whilst filling. Is that common practice ?
-
You would not want to open the valve to the burner since the gas take off height is typically the highest point in the tank. This would cause you to come really close to filling the tank 100%.
If you instead fill the tank through the burner valve and bleed off the vapors from the new valve with the dip tube then once you see liquid squirting out you would then know the tank is approximately filled to the height of the dip tube. I would recommend trying this a few times first, starting with an empty tank and weighing it. Then filling it up till liquid comes out the bleeder valve and weighing the tank again to see if the weights are consistent each time. To get an idea of what the tank would weigh 100% full, you could try filling the tank through the new bleeder valve until liquid fuel squirts out of the burner valve.
I would definitely recommend experimenting first. Before experimenting with gas you could first fill the tank with water to see if the method works. Then try gas to see if it behaves any differently. What is nice about the bleeder valve is it can have a line plumbed from it to vent the liquid and gas overboard while filling. I began playing around with a similar refilling system about 2 years ago but the valves I designed for mine were push button open and closed so to speak instead of being rotary opened and closed like a normal valve. I never did get a chance to finish it cause I was waist deep in work at the time. It's another one of those "some day down the road projects".
Glenn keep us posted on your findings.
-
Glenn,
BTW, before tapping your bushing with a 1/4"-40 tap, you will need to use a 5.7mm drill to open up the diameter of bushing area to be tapped. After using a standard 1/4"-40 tap to start cutting your threads, you may need to switch to a 1/4"-40 bottom tap to get a decent depth of threads cut for your valve to screw down into. Of course this is depending on how deep the bushing goes before it steps down in diameter for the Ronson valve's threads. Remember measure twice and cut once! %) Good luck. :-))