Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: justboatonic on January 17, 2012, 11:21:16 pm
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Many people are probably aware that our cousins across the pond proudly fly the Stars & Stripes from their home. In the UK, we dont tend to do this for some reason (why!?).
I've long had the urge to fly the Union Flag or St George's Flag from a flag pole at home but have been put off as I thought a free standing flag pole needed planning permission. In my area, I've seen a couple of people who regularly fly the flag. So, I've done a little bit of digging and found this relevant to the UK:
Planning permission
• Under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, flags come within the definition of "advertisement". Their display is controlled by the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992.
• However, under Schedule 2 of the Regulations, the national flag of any country, and this includes the Union flag, is exempt from advertisement control provided each flag is flown from a single vertical flagpole and neither the flag nor the flagpole display any advertisement additional to the design of the flag.
The above seems to suggest that you dont need PP for a flagpole to fly the Union Flag or national flag of any country come to that! Id guess a caveat may be that you live in a conservation area or in a listed building you may need permission.
I've fired off an enquiry to my local council quoting the above about planning permission exemption. Naturally, there is nothing on my local council's website about this.
Has anyone erected a flagpole on their property if so, did your council insist on planning permission? Have you had any issues with a local council even if you brought the above to their attention?
I'd envisage a flagpole no higher than 6 metres
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Don't put up a Pirates Flag however as that Apparently is classed as advertising..Re a case in the papers a few years back..
Is not a Flag pole not deemed a non permanent object therefor does not need PM. ?.
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Don't put up a Pirates Flag however as that Apparently is classed as advertising..Re a case in the papers a few years back..
Is not a Flag pole not deemed a non permanent object therefor does not need PM. ?.
Yes, the skull & cross bones isnt a national flag. Neither is the St georges flag with 'ENGLAND' written on it.
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There is another solution
(http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/120118125649239304.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Here in France you can fly a French flag on flag pole in your garden but that means for most people that you are like a political extremist and/or chauvinistic. Time and mind change ... Some in Brittany, Basque country and Corsica have regional flag flying, then for your neigbor you just look like a terrorist.
What a pity for me as I like the Gwenn Ha Du, the Brittany flag. Anyway most of private boats here in Brittany are flying this Gwenn Ha Du, it's the case of my 5 meters "teuf teuf boat" and also the case of all my model boats as courtesy flag for foreign ones and as national flag for the french :} That means my UK flag supply ship model is also flying the Gwenn Ha Du as courtesy flag :D
Xtian (http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/120118011008451537.gif) (http://www.casimages.com)
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There is another solution
(http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/120118125649239304.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Here in France you can fly a French flag on flag pole in your garden but that means for most people that you are like a political extremist and/or chauvinistic. Time and mind change ... Some in Brittany, Basque country and Corsica have regional flag flying, then for your neigbor you just look like a terrorist.
What a pity for me as I like the Gwenn Ha Du, the Brittany flag. Anyway most of private boats here in Brittany are flying this Gwenn Ha Du, it's the case of my 5 meters "teuf teuf boat" and also the case of all my model boats as courtesy flag for foreign ones and as national flag for the french :} That means my UK flag supply ship model is also flying the Gwenn Ha Du as courtesy flag :D
Xtian (http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/120118011008451537.gif) (http://www.casimages.com)
LOL. Painting the whole house is a bit extreme.
Not bothered what the neighbours may think. One of them dumps there cars right in the middle of the cul de sac where I live with utter contempt for others.
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http://www.flaginstitute.org/pdfs/Flying_Flags_in_the_United_Kingdom.pdf
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very interresting :-)) - thanks Dicky
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I too admire the Americans for their loyalty to their country in flying their flag, but I have to be honest, here in England a lot of people see the St.Georges flag flying from chimney pots and poles and associate the occupants with football hooligans..... {:-{
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Certain ranks of the forces are entitled to a flag pole and to fly
The flag pennant of their rank at their home even after they have retired
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Here. In Brisbane, Australia I have a flag pole from an old dinghy mast. I love raising the Australian Flag in the morning. And without that union jack it just wouldn't be the same. Must have something to do with my ancestors being kicked out of US and into Canada. UEL all the way.
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My brother has a pole and flag of St George in his garden and he lives in a rather nice suburban area of Lancashire. No planning permission was needed for him..
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Apparently whether you need planning permission for a flagpole varies from local authority to local authority.
Under Schedule 1 Class H of the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, national flags, the flags of the Commonwealth, European Union, the United Nations, English counties and certain saints can be flown without the express consent of local authorities as long as they satisfy the standard conditions for the display of advertisements generally and the conditions and limitations set out within Class H itself.
http://www.flaginstitute.org/index.php?location=14#index16
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Years ago, on the late Bernie Wood's birthday, himself and his good lady wife Anita were down at our house for some reason, I can't remember exactly what.
I decided, for reasons unknown to me even now, to fly my Kriegsmarine battle ensign to welcome him as he arrived in his Reliant wee threeler. The flag was mounted on a short scaffold pole just cable tied to 'er indoors's rose archway which stood at the top end of our pathway down to our back door.
I thought it looked magnificent fluttering in the breeze...unfortunately, my neighbour didn't. It flew for fifteen minutes before said neighbour called the plod, who informed me that "it would be in everybody's best interests if you removed it, sir...."
Rich
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Years ago, on the late Bernie Wood's birthday, himself and his good lady wife Anita were down at our house for some reason, I can't remember exactly what.
I decided, for reasons unknown to me even now, to fly my Kriegsmarine battle ensign to welcome him as he arrived in his Reliant wee threeler. The flag was mounted on a short scaffold pole just cable tied to 'er indoors's rose archway which stood at the top end of our pathway down to our back door.
I thought it looked magnificent fluttering in the breeze...unfortunately, my neighbour didn't. It flew for fifteen minutes before said neighbour called the plod, who informed me that "it would be in everybody's best interests if you removed it, sir...."
Rich
Yes but as DD and I have pointed out, the battle ensign isnt a national flag and would be seen as advertising. Im still awaiting a response from my local council (only sent it late last night so dont expect anything for a week to 10 days). I expect them to come back and say 'No!'
SWMBO isnt keen either but I think it would be great fun!
PS, I should make clear (if I havent) that by 'on residential property' I mean in the curtilage(?) of my property.
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Dare I ask...but what would the battle ensign be advertising?
Rich
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Dare I ask...but what would the battle ensign be advertising?
Rich
Rich, it would be classed as 'advertising' since it is not a national flag within the terms of the Town & Country planning legislation. In addition to the info DD has provided, it should also be noted the flagpole should not have anything attached to it ie manufacturers mark, as this would also be classed as advertising!
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Good grief...so I'd best not wear my fleece with the "Johnston Sweepers" logo emblazoned across it then!
Point taken though, chap, although I'm pretty sure that my neighbours weren't complaining about me advertising anything when they called the local police... :police:
Rich
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Good grief...so I'd best not wear my fleece with the "Johnston Sweepers" logo emblazoned across it then!
Point taken though, chap, although I'm pretty sure that my neighbours weren't complaining about me advertising anything when they called the local police... :police:
Rich
Obviously not but nevertheless, if you had been flying the german imperial flag or other national flag, you could have correctly pointed out to plod you were within the planning laws.
I know you jest about your fleece but that doesnt come under the flagpole and flags planning.
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Be very careful. A couple locally decided to fly the Union Flag from a pole in their garden and another local resident caused a hell of a stink in the press and on local TV by objecting to it as a racist symbol (he is Afro-Caribbean). Others objected to it being flown all year round for various reasons. See what Little England is up to here http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Meeting-try-resolve-flag-row/story-13797434-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Meeting-try-resolve-flag-row/story-13797434-detail/story.html)
Bless 'em all...................... ;D
DM
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Obviously not but nevertheless, if you had been flying the german imperial flag or other national flag, you could have correctly pointed out to plod you were within the planning laws.
I know you jest about your fleece but that doesnt come under the flagpole and flags planning.
Unless you are wearing it of course.
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Be very careful. A couple locally decided to fly the Union Flag from a pole in their garden and another local resident caused a hell of a stink in the press and on local TV by objecting to it as a racist symbol (he is Afro-Caribbean). Others objected to it being flown all year round for various reasons. See what Little England is up to here http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Meeting-try-resolve-flag-row/story-13797434-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Meeting-try-resolve-flag-row/story-13797434-detail/story.html)
Bless 'em all...................... ;D
DM
So long as its on my property and complies with the planning laws ie national flag, no advertising, I dont see how any neighbourly 'complaints' can hold up. I do realise there are some people about who would complain though.
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You go for it, Botonic.wyre borough are in enough mess over the peir and the planning permission row with simmo to bother with a small jobbie like that.....and you can claim if they get snorty about it, that there is a chap on Fleetwood road near to Broadwater that regularly flies, the Salteir, welsh dragon, st george AND the union flag at different times of the year from his garage gable end.......the only one I haven't seen flying there is an Irish tricolour...thus setting preference..................sod the neighbours......if they don't like it, get a bigger flag and tell them to sod off.
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You go for it, Botonic.wyre borough are in enough mess over the peir and the planning permission row with simmo to bother with a small jobbie like that.....and you can claim if they get snorty about it, that there is a chap on Fleetwood road near to Broadwater that regularly flies, the Salteir, welsh dragon, st george AND the union flag at different times of the year from his garage gable end.......the only one I haven't seen flying there is an Irish tricolour...thus setting preference..................sod the neighbours......if they don't like it, get a bigger flag and tell them to sod off.
Yes, there's a house on Fleetwood Road South near the Norcross roundabout who flies the flag daily from his 5 or 6 metre flagpole.
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Local council (nice prompt response :-))) say no planning permission need so long as no advertising, not on listed building or conservation area O0
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Does that mean you can fly the Royal Standard then? :-)
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Only if our Sovereign Lady, God Bless you Ma'm, is present on the property.
LB
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Only if our Sovereign Lady, God Bless you Ma'm, is present on the property.
Not much chance of that at Justboatonic's residence then!
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Humm the Kriegsmarine Battle Flag is something with a Nazi Swatiska isn't it ... Not so fine to fly this flag ! We are far out of any idea to fly a national flag in a garden pole.
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I thought you had your own flag in Britanny Xtian, :D :D :D
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Of course : the Gwenn Ha Du
This one was flying aboard of the French Navy ASW destroyer Primauguet during a replenishment at sea with another French Navy ship - she fly that flag to well said that she's based in Brittany and her name is from a Breton hero
(http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/120118115856681126.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Xtian (http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/18/12011811523592669.gif) (http://www.casimages.com)
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Brittany Ferries also fly it.
Colin
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Not all Brittany Ferries, only the ones with breton names like Cap Finistère, Pont Aven, Bretagne or Armorique. The ones with normand names like Cotentin, Mont Saint Michel or Normandie are flying the normand red flag with two yellow lions,
Xtian
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Surely flying the English flag would just ruin a good flag pole.
Jenno
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Could say the same about a Welsh flag ;)
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Surely flying the English flag would just ruin a good flag pole.
Jenno
Are you talking this English flag (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/england.gif)
Or are you talking the British flag (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/greatbrE.gif)
Good of you to learn English by the way.
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The clue is in my post E.n.g.l.i.s.h.
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Yep English flag ruin the good pole ;) As a rugby fan, England is my favorite ennemy {-) No English flag flying in my garden >>:-(
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The clue is in my post E.n.g.l.i.s.h.
Thats alright then, justboatonic wants the British flag.
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Surely flying the English flag would just ruin a good flag pole.
Jenno
I thought ALL racism was a criminal offence in the UK these days!!!! <*< :police:
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I thought ALL racism was a criminal offence in the UK these days!!!! <*< :police:
You have to make allowances Barry, they even print their road signs in code so us foreigners would get lost if we invaded. ok2
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Steady Chaps
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There's a house in my village with a proper flagpole put up by the original owner 40 years ago, a Colonel, so probably all right and proper. This Christmas it had a santa flag.
Then up on the hill by me there is a pole, but it only flies a red flag. Might get myself a Union Flag for the jubilee but nowadays it would get nicked if I don't padlock the pole. I wonder how long before someone objects.
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Then up on the hill by me there is a pole, but it only flies a red flag.
Not an Army firing range is it?!
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There's a house in my village with a proper flagpole put up by the original owner 40 years ago, a Colonel, so probably all right and proper. This Christmas it had a santa flag.
Then up on the hill by me there is a pole, but it only flies a red flag. Might get myself a Union Flag for the jubilee but nowadays it would get nicked if I don't padlock the pole. I wonder how long before someone objects.
You can buy flagpoles with internal halyards so people cant nick your flag.
As for someone objecting, you just have to quote the relevant Town and Country Planning Act and that flying a national flag is perfectly acceptable and no planning permission is required. Then you can tell them to foxtrot oscar off.
I'd recommend checking with your local council and quote the relevant part of T&C to them. I did and they said I was 'spot on' but I suspect if I'd asked them 'can I erect a flag pole on my property?' they'd have said planning permission was required.
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I used to live in a house in Fleetwood, dating back to the days (1852) when it and it's row of houses were the only ones on the promenade, a grade A listed it was the station officer's house for the local coast guard and I have photo's of it in the 1850's when it had a 10 metre flag pole on a binnacle in the front garden.
On the deeds, it stated that I was allowed to fly any flag associated with the coast guard, RN and even the queen's standard from the pole should the Royal Yacht come into sight as a salute and tribute to the monarch...it was at that time talking of Queen Victoria..sadly the only thing that remained of the structure when I was in residence was the rusted bolt holes in the concrete..........I would have loved to have tested Wyre Borough's stance on me flying that, as on occasions the RY Britannia has been seen in Morecambe bay, lol