Model Boat Mayhem
Shows, Events, Club websites and Club Events => Commercial Events and News => Topic started by: gwa84the2nd on September 21, 2012, 09:59:11 am
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thouts enybody :((
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Kayaker-run-model-powerboat-Torbay/story-16936258-detail/story.html
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Oh dear sorry to see this guys still in such a bad way not good at all,hope he gets compensated properly for his injuries.
Mart
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hopfully the boat insurance should compansate him for eny injuries just goas to show that you must have insurance and be safty consias when using pawer boat capable of speed :-))
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thouts enybody :((
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Kayaker-run-model-powerboat-Torbay/story-16936258-detail/story.html
I have only read the newspaper report (and these are often missing important detail), but a few items stand out:
1 - The fact that it was a model boat race was only peripheral - the canoe was hit by a support boat.
2 - It really has to be the support helmsman's fault - he drove into the canoist..
3 - The canoist's idea of evasive action was to capsize and go under - thus guaranteeing that he could not be seen. He would have been hard to see anyway in the troughs of the waves. So I'm not surprised that he was hit. I think that means that the race organisers have a question to answer - what actions were taken to ensure that the course was clear of obstacles...
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Lets hope so,one would think OMRA has the propper insurance to cover such accidents.One things for sure this isn't going to go away quietly like some would like.
Mart
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Hi, regrettable as the accident is the Newspaper headlines do the damage to model boating. It says that the kayak was hit by the model boat and yet the first sentence of the article says it was the chasing power boat.
You just cannot rely or believe most of what is printed.
regards Roy
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I have only read the newspaper report (and these are often missing important detail), but a few items stand out:
1 - The fact that it was a model boat race was only peripheral - the canoe was hit by a support boat.
2 - It really has to be the support helmsman's fault - he drove into the canoist..
3 - The canoist's idea of evasive action was to capsize and go under - thus guaranteeing that he could not be seen. He would have been hard to see anyway in the troughs of the waves. So I'm not surprised that he was hit. I think that means that the race organisers have a question to answer - what actions were taken to ensure that the course was clear of obstacles...
this i think is the accident that happend but didnt according to some individuals O0 O0 O0 O0
at these events there are normally 3 or 4 persons in the boat
model boat driver and his/her pit person and spotter
chase boat driver +/- there spotter
leaves the question to be asked what the spotters were doing !
also goes to prove im not the "liar" i was attempted to be made out to be , by certain individuals
what goes round comes round {-) {-) {-) O0 {-) {-) {-)
oh wonder who's paying the £2275 the associations members ? poor guys ! paying for others ignorance and arrogance {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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It was part of a race organised by the Offshore Model Powerboat Racing Association on September 19 last year
I'll play devils advocate here and ask...........if it was an organised event why were exclusion zones not set out, as one wouldexpect if they were using 5' models and a rib..
and if exclusion zone had been clearly marked..why did the kyaker not adhere to these and venture into the exclusion zone.
If the zones had not been set then substantial blame should go to OMRA for not posting such zones, and should also pay compensation.......
a sticky one is this???
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Forgive me but this just doesn't seem to add up.... there's some information missing somewhere
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It was part of a race organised by the Offshore Model Powerboat Racing Association on September 19 last year
I'll play devils advocate here and ask...........if it was an organised event why were exclusion zones not set out, as one wouldexpect if they were using 5' models and a rib..
and if exclusion zone had been clearly marked..why did the kyaker not adhere to these and venture into the exclusion zone.
If the zones had not been set then substantial blame should go to OMRA for not posting such zones, and should also pay compensation.......
a sticky one is this???
that the point neil
no zones no public info of routes etc
as an organiser of these events they have a duty of care for not only its members but public too
omra were warned about health and safety by myself and others in 2008/9 and told they were an accident waiting to happen ! i was revoked membership for being out spoken about this too even thou it was said otherwise.
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that the point neil
no zones no public info of routes etc
as an organiser of these events they have a duty of care for not only its members but public too
omra were warned about health and safety by myself and others in 2008/9 and told they were an accident waiting to happen ! i was revoked membership for being out spoken about this too even thou it was said otherwise.
In that place tmbc......you can think yourself totally exonerated of any blame as a past member..............
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As an Experianced Kayaker
The canoist's idea of evasive action was to capsize and go under WHAT !!
I assume he saw the boat coming, all he had to do was stop, turn, or reverse
Quite why the chase boat did not see him as well and also did not adjust course is also odd.(ok just reread, skipper was busy looking elsewhere, however if I saw a boat bearing down on me and I was not with a swimmer I would Move !!, else I would put my Kayak in the way of the danger to protect my swimmer in addition to trying to get out of danger, rather than waving my hands..
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or is it a case of both took the same evasive manoeuvre... a bit like the dance you do in a corridor sometimes
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His evasive manoeuvre was to capsize.
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His evasive manoeuvre was to capsize.
......and that last split second decision is what probably saved Nigels life, can you imagine what the propellor would have done to his head had he stayed upright ? I've heard it said that they never saw him, how on earth can anyone not see an 18 foot bright orange Kayak.....well obviously they didn't :o
Get well soon Nigel, it's been a long haul and good luck with any private prosecution(s).
Kind regards
Scoop
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......and that last split second decision is what probably saved Nigels life, can you imagine what the propellor would have done to his head had he stayed upright ? I've heard it said that they never saw him, how on earth can anyone not see an 18 foot bright orange Kayak.....well obviously they didn't :o
Get well soon Nigel, it's been a long haul and good luck with any private prosecution(s).
Kind regards
Scoop
Yes I hope he gets well, and the blame is clearly on the powerboat side, However from the text of the article He states he saw it coming for more than just an instant but appears not to have moved.. Obviously as we were not there and did not witness the accident it is hard to really comment if he did or did not try to move..
The article also goes on to say that he was not aware of the event, this would probably be organisations not talking to each other, I was at an event in Dover, The harbour master knew, the RNLI ,Sailing club ,the local policethe Dover Council were all aware of the event but apparently the Dover harbour Police knew nothing about the event !!
same on Tv Last Night, a US Warship was in a designated keep out area for live ammo practice and a sailing yacht sailed on through..
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Just how the hell a Kayak is suposed to be able to reverse or move out of the way from a powerboat travelling at some 30 mph escapes me %).Nigel is lucky to be alive.
Id like to know if anyone from OMRA bothered to contact Nigel and apologise ?,that would be a start.
Mart
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Yes I hope he gets well, and the blame is clearly on the powerboat side, However from the text of the article He states he saw it coming for more than just an instant but appears not to have moved.. Obviously as we were not there and did not witness the accident it is hard to really comment if he did or did not try to move..
The article also goes on to say that he was not aware of the event, this would probably be organisations not talking to each other, I was at an event in Dover, The harbour master knew, the RNLI ,Sailing club ,the local policethe Dover Council were all aware of the event but apparently the Dover harbour Police knew nothing about the event !!
same on Tv Last Night, a US Warship was in a designated keep out area for live ammo practice and a sailing yacht sailed on through..
some of us have been told first hand what happend to nigel ! it isnt really clear from the report but for them to be found guilty and still carry on advertising they do this type of event goes to show there duty of care to others is none existant ! they are meant to be holding thisevent this weekend at another harbour wonder if the harbour master knows!
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At the end of the day lets face it this was an accident,some would say one that was waiting to happen,some not,no one can foresee what may or may not happen,chase boat events have been going on for many years now,and im sure will still do so,despite the fact that some one has been hurt during such event,i am hoping that insurance ect ect will play a big part in this and that nigel gets everything he is owed and doesnt look upon this hobby with distaste,we can all preach about what has been said or not,and what should have been done or not.but as stated this was a accident.one i hope does not tarnish model power boat organisations, O0 O0 O0
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hi
As a canoeist and instructor myself in days gone by - one of the things which I will comment on is that the person purposely capsizing a canoe was endangering his own life cos if he was wearing the correct safety equipment i.e. life preserver whether it be the brand new type or self inflating - the specific idea of these are to bring one to the surface. One has to force oneself to perform an 'Eskimo roll' as its known. His correct course of action should have been to turn into the oncoming to be forced off by the oncoming bow wave of the vessel - much like - the Slalom Canoeists do around the wave formations around the rocks in the rapids. But, like every other thing in life it is so easy to sit back and make decisions of what is right and wrong now.
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As a canoeist and instructor myself in days gone by - one of the things which I will comment on...
Poor visibility from both parties seems to have been one feature of the accident. Neither party seemed to be aware of the other until the last few seconds. I suspect that both of them were low in the water - in particular the canoeist - and I can easily see how a canoe in a wave trough can be totally invisible. Is there any recommendation provided to canoeists in these circumstances to aid visibility, as there is with motorcyclists or pedestrians on a dark road? Both these groups are made well aware that they can be hard to see, and that they need to dress and behave accordingly....
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This was an accident that I would assume neither party ever wanted to happen. There is always those that are experts after the fact, with their "if only he/she had done this or that" or all the other what ifs. The fact is history is not reversible & all we can do is when we know what happened & how it happened try to put safeguards in place to prevent that particular set of circumstances from happening again.I feel all involved have some share of the blame to carry. I hope Nigel recovers fully & if he is entitled to compensation that he gets what he is due, all he can hope for is that he will at least be able to function normally, it is doubtful that he will ever be 100%. That sad as it to say is the results of getting seriously injured, speaking from first hand experience. Mick B.
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Had the chase boat driver got a qualification to drive a rib I wonder, at least an RYA Level 2 powerboat certificate, If not, IMO he should not have been driving the boat in the first place, and if he has, he did not follow his training, ie, keep his mind on driving the boat and above all, keep a good lookout, one of his passengers should have also been designated lookout. I hold RYA Intermediate power certificate and RYA Safety Boat certificate, and always brief my crew before going afloat and designate a lookout, this is an accident that should never have happened..
Regards,
Nick....
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As an ex kayaker myself, I can say that if you've got time to see something coming, think 'Oh gosh and bother it', consider your options and capsize, you could have already moved from a standing start at the very least 20 feet out the way..... %)
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As an ex kayaker myself, I can say that if you've got time to see something coming, think 'Oh gosh and bother it', consider your options and capsize, you could have already moved from a standing start at the very least 20 feet out the way..... %)
Fully agree, but also agree with Nick
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As an ex kayaker myself, I can say that if you've got time to see something coming, think 'Oh gosh and bother it', consider your options and capsize, you could have already moved from a standing start at the very least 20 feet out the way..... %)
I suppose Andy it all depends on how close the RHIB was when it crept up behind him. He probably didn't have time to react other than to complete an eskimo roll. There's not just one chase boat on the water at any one time there are several doing the 8 mile loop, so it's quite conceivable that the one (+ jet ski) he saw and was keeping an eye on was to his thinking the only one's that were on the water. Seems to me that Nigel was probably the only one keeping look out that day ! Still I suppose we will hear more after the private prosecution has concluded. O0
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Without wishing to get involved, and just a point - if you are in a very small craft and there is appreciable wave movement, your radius of vision is actually quite small.
Colin
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just found this intresting how the kayak guys feel !
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95118&pp=657158&hilit=accident#p657158
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oh just to mention that there apears to be an issue with whos been convicted and who they said was originally driving the boat
check the original news report
http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Kayaker-injured-collision-sea/story-13428221-detail/story.html
hmmm intresting
as for people questioning mr hattons suitability to do this type of sport
the following was found on a kayak forum take note paragraph 3 !
I said I have all of those and sea kayaking qaulifications, excellent fitness, bomb proof roll.
Re: Sea kayak regulations in France
Postby nigelhatton » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm
I spent about 5 months of the summer paddling the south coast of France and never had a problem until one day.
I paddled out of the port of Sete into a westerly 30kmh wind and large swell, fantastic for surfing a sea kayak and a bit of sightseeing from 2 kms out. I have never seen other kayakers out that far and I often wondered why.
On my return to Sete harbour a motor vessal came from behind and called out of the loudspeaker"Kayaker, Kayaker arret, arret maintenont, meaning kayaker stop now.
One of the local pilots aboard told me no kayaks can go more than 300 metres from the port, beachor point of safety return. I asked why, all in French. He said it's not allowed for any kayak, canoe,row boat to go past 300 metres because the law in France say so, unless I had a radio, 3 hand flares, bouyancy aid,extra bouyancy in the kayak so it can't sink. I said I have all of those and sea kayaking qaulifications, excellent fitness, bomb proof roll.
I returned to my base and then checked on the internet about all these French rules, they do exist and even for someone with all the required kit they still cant go more than 6 knautical miles.
I came back 5 days later and paddled in Torbay then we all know what happened.
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Just read this, some interesting nonsense !! Don't believe all you read !!
Just a couple of facts from someone that really knows.
Visibility was good, weather was very windy, sea was choppy.
Skipper, whilst having no official qualifications does have around 20yrs worth of high speed boating experience including numerous chase boat events ( both as chase boat and model driver) and many hours of safety cover.
Master of Chase Boat has some 45 yrs experience including PB level 2, Day Skipper, VHF, Water Ski Race Driving Instructor, Powerboat Race trainer, Model boat racing since mid 70's and numerous chase boat event driving, as well as 32 years of racing high speed craft both nationally and internationally.
International Collision at Sea Regulations are very clear about crossing vessels !!
Skipper was guilty of not seeing a Kayak as were the other 3 on chase boat and as can be seen in the video of the run on youtube. Had they not been keeping a look out they would have been on the wrong course. You have to look where you are going !!
Kayak obviously very well disguised and as said in statements "They did not see him" neither on the way across where chase boat must have passed him within a few hundred metres less than 3 minutes previous nor by the preceding chase boat a short time before.
Harbour Master did fail to publish a notice to mariners to warn of the event, this would be normal practice.
In a statement the chase boats size and speed were clearly misjudged.
This was nothing more than a very unfortunate accident as pointed out by the Kayaker. Chase boat was travelling at around 25mph (not fast) it was on a direct course as it had been on several earlier runs that day and as pointed out by a couple of Kayakers on here his time after spotting the chase boat some 50 metres away may have been better spent paddling away from, instead of across the path of the much bigger vessel that he could not see the crew of.
The chase Boats are fully insured and the Kayaker is persuing his claim.
The Fine sums it all up really £260 (max £5000) as with all these situations the Solicitors are the only ones to make out of it. The prosecution was from Torbay council (not the Kayaker) and their costs even though they are already being paid by you and me were £2600 reduced to £2000, defendants costs £1750.
Kayak was not hit by a model boat ! Model Boat was NOT a Yellow Jet Ski. Crew were NOT engrossed in watching the model. Injuries were NOT caused by the Propeller.
I am sure we all wish Mr Hatton a full and speedy recovery.
Please STOP your speculation !! If you must comment on public forums please get your facts straight !!
OP
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Visibility was good ? ok so they could see a 5 ft model boat but they couldn't see an 18ft bright red kayak with a quite large fellow paddling it wearing a hi vis vest and cap,something wrong there then dont you think ?.The truth is the guy driving and his so called spotters were negligent and almost killed the guy.The law is a joke in this country and i only hope Nigel succeeds in his compensation claim and makes a full recovery.
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Just read this, some interesting nonsense !! Don't believe all you read !!
Just a couple of facts from someone that really knows.
And you are???
This is your first post, with no name just a gerneric username..... How do we know what you say is any different from any of the other "speculation" and "Hearsay"
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Visibility was good ? ok so they could see a 5 ft model boat but they couldn't see an 18ft bright red kayak with a quite large fellow paddling it wearing a hi vis vest and cap,something wrong there then dont you think ?.The truth is the guy driving and his so called spotters were negligent and almost killed the guy.The law is a joke in this country and i only hope Nigel succeeds in his compensation claim and makes a full recovery.
As above ! Don't believe all you read in the press !
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And you are???
This is your first post, with no name just a gerneric username..... How do we know what you say is any different from any of the other "speculation" and "Hearsay"
Well, I am not a professional critic.
You don't know what I say is any different, you also didn't know what really happened ! All I ask is that you don't speculate.
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Well, I am not a professional critic.
How do we know that without anything to back it up? like I said a low post generic username with no evidence to backup what you say
you also didn't know what really happened ! All I ask is that you don't speculate.
I didn't... I stated that there was more to this than the article stated
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Seems odd to me that still certain individuals are trying to avoid the truth and insinuate the canoeist was to blame.Any powered vessel has to give way to unpowered vessels and slower,sail powered craft not the other way around.Nigel had no reason to move out of the way that was there responsibility not his,by the sounds of it he didn't have time anyway,not that it made any difference because although the visibility was good according to what this guy just said the chaseboat crew saw nothing only a 5 ft model boat they were chasing O0.
something is not right here if you ask me :((.
Mart
as for our friend of some 3 posts maybe you would like to make yourself known to everyone
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may be one of the original persons who totally denied the accident and was so intent in calling those who found "liars" and trying to discredit them to others on this and other forums
one thing is it will be intresting to see the report by the marine accident investigation branch.
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Offshore, would you like to give us a link to the Youtube video ? Where was/were the camera(s) ?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6awgLXONh0&list=UUkEb0nRLZRuGoVXPLnH2XOA&index=3&feature=plcp
Taken from chase boat !!
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Thank you. I was under the impression that the film included the accident or is that sub judice ? So one of the chase boat crew concentrates on filming the model .
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Well that doesnt prove much except visibility was virtually perfect and conditions would only be described as choppy if you were
in a 5 foot model boat, otherwise they were faily calm
Still can't see why the canoeist was not seen by the helmsman
Geoff
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great deals at specsavers or vision express {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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great deals at specsavers or vision express {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
will make an appointment for you mate lol %% but on a serious note forgive me if im wrong but didnt this accident happen this year?? utube link shows chase boat 2011 a year before accident :o :o :o
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According to the (first post) newspaper report, the incident happened in Sept. 2011. The case came to court this year,2012, I presume that is why it hit the newspaper.
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will make an appointment for you mate lol %% but on a serious note forgive me if im wrong but didnt this accident happen this year?? utube link shows chase boat 2011 a year before accident :o :o :o
Last year Kurt
quote from article in first post .
It was part of a race organised by the Offshore Model Powerboat Racing Association on September 19 last year.
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thanks martin just found out the same,its a shame that this has happened having raced in omra and now bmprs knowing the damage it can do to our societies regardless of which society is to blame as the saying goes we all get tarred with the same brush. :o i know bmprs is run on inland lakes and every risk is assessed before and during racing.im not saying that we are better than other organisations only that the risks and everything else should have been checked before and during the race,i for one really hope that nigel make the best recovery possible and that something good comes out of it all regardless of what that may be. %) %)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6awgLXONh0&list=UUkEb0nRLZRuGoVXPLnH2XOA&index=3&feature=plcp
Taken from chase boat !!
is this the one that was played in court ???
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thanks martin just found out the same,its a shame that this has happened having raced in omra and now bmprs knowing the damage it can do to our societies regardless of which society is to blame as the saying goes we all get tarred with the same brush. :o i know bmprs is run on inland lakes and every risk is assessed before and during racing.im not saying that we are better than other organisations only that the risks and everything else should have been checked before and during the race,i for one really hope that nigel make the best recovery possible and that something good comes out of it all regardless of what that may be. %) %)
kurt you know as well why i had my membership revoked from the association that had an involvement in this accident they were warned at an agm about how they conducted there events !
well well well cant say they wernt
oh by the way whilst on the mater of health and safety our policy at bmprs is simple and effective due to the knowledge and qualifications gained not only by myself being the h&s co-ordinator but also other committee members in this field some of whom have also had there membership revoked for being out spoken on matter regarding safety.
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is this the one that was played in court ???
No video's were actually played in court !!
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Had the Vid been played in court, perhaps the fine would have been £5000 ?
Always seems to have some on the forum spitting feathers but to some, an accident caused by people playing with toy boats.
Regards Ian.
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Seems odd to me that still certain individuals are trying to avoid the truth and insinuate the canoeist was to blame.Any powered vessel has to give way to unpowered vessels and slower,sail powered craft not the other way around.Nigel had no reason to move out of the way that was there responsibility not his,by the sounds of it he didn't have time anyway,not that it made any difference because although the visibility was good according to what this guy just said the chaseboat crew saw nothing only a 5 ft model boat they were chasing O0.
something is not right here if you ask me :((.
Mart
as for our friend of some 3 posts maybe you would like to make yourself known to everyone
Suggest you swat up on Col Regs and definition of "Power" !!
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may be one of the original persons who totally denied the accident and was so intent in calling those who found "liars" and trying to discredit them to others on this and other forums
one thing is it will be intresting to see the report by the marine accident investigation branch.
I was unaware of anyone denying the accident seems you were actually there at the scene !!
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so there you go offshore you were unaware of people denying the accident !
well i may not have been there but within 20mins of that accident i had a phone call telling me all about it. which i thought was a windup, so i rang others who i knew were there and have links to the asso who told me nothing had happennd then 3 or so days later admitted there may have been an incident.
once we found facts out we were then slagged down on this forum and others as being trouble causes and liars
perhaps if the info were getting is so wrong you may care to enlighten us with your version of events. so we can compare that against what nigel has told us !
some of us care about our hobby and like ive explained to at least two committee members we now live in a society of litigation and prevention is better cure !
"but some just want to get back to the old ways that use to be !"
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hey think offshore getting a good post rate for a new member ! welcome aboard by the way
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Suggest you swat up on Col Regs and definition of "Power" !!
Ill ask you again please reveal yourself so that we know who we are talking to,you seem to know a lot about this incident yet hide your identity for some bizzare reason.
Mart
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mart like the posts in the past a lot to say against what others have said but they dont like to incriminate themselves !
another thread that may be of interest
http://www.smallmotorhome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6296
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If the case is in litigation, should the details of the incident be discussed on an open forum?
Ned
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Fee fi fo fum. That video would seem to be rather damning of the chase driver. But of course we don't know if it's pukka as its just a video of a model boat being escorted - somewhere.
Not sure but as its been judged in a criminal court I think it is probably open season now.
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Fee fi fo fum. That video would seem to be rather damning of the chase driver. But of course we don't know if it's pukka as its just a video of a model boat being escorted - somewhere.
Not sure but as its been judged in a criminal court I think it is probably open season now.
im sure the original will surface at some point !
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I think most decent people just want to see the right thing done for Nigel,did anyone from OMRA contact him to say sory after the incident or since ?.
Mart
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No video's were actually played in court !!
following A conversation with nigel this morning he confirmed a video of the chase boat was played at the court !
also hes commented on the "bad language" when the collision happend
this was also the first time nigel found out about this video.
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I think most decent people just want to see the right thing done for Nigel,did anyone from OMRA contact him to say sory after the incident or since ?.
Mart
Im hoping that they did mate,and although they did organise the event they were not the driver of the boat,that said it was a very unfortunate accident one that may or may not have been avoided,we are all quick to judge others after things have happened,and stand on soap boxes with axes in our hands.i for one feel very sad that everybody has a bad opinion and know the damage this can do to all model boat societies,every year we are finding it harder to run our power boats on waters and to be honest as boats are getting quicker the risks are getting higher,i know its only a matter of time before another accident does happen despite all the risk assessments having been put in place.and this will be yesterdays news and wrapped round your fish and chips so to speak,my concern is to all model boat societies bad press to one is bad press to all regardless of what anyone may say.we are a dying breed with low attendances to all meetings.these are my own opinions and may or may not upset others,really i dont give a dam we all have freedom of speech. >>:-( >>:-(
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I think most decent people just want to see the right thing done for Nigel,did anyone from OMRA contact him to say sory after the incident or since ?.
Mart
While it might sound a bit callous, you have to be very careful indeed about saying anything to the other party as it could be construed as an admission of guilt and insurers take a very dim view of that. It's like car accidents. they tell you not to admit anything.
Colin
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hmmm seems offshore has :-X :-X :-X :-X
hey offshore can you comment on the chase boat event that was meant to have taken place at weekend ? oh and the previous one there seems to be no results listed for them !
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Its all gone quiet now O0
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Its all gone quiet now O0
{:-{ and this thread was just shaping up nicely for Rocky 6 %)
Dave
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rocky 6 %% rofl i take it you aint followed old threads that were deleted etc {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Daves been away on a mission for Bernard.
Prospecting for a malteser mine at the bottom
of Straight Street Valetta :D :D
Ned
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rocky 6 %% rofl i take it you aint followed old threads that were deleted etc {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
They ain't deleted mate, remember we all printed them off first for future reference :-))
ps Think I recognise Offshores style of writing.....hmmmmm {-) {-) {-) Come on guys surely you can have a guess %)
Cheers
Scoop
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hey scoop
we could make a paperback book, may have more of a spine to it than niffty baby smells ! {-)
could be a best seller O0
hmmm what to call it thou ? {:-{
" a snotbag donkey and the whinging warlock " 8) :-))
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hey scoop
we could make a paperback book, may have more of a spine to it than niffty baby smells ! {-)
could be a best seller O0
hmmm what to call it thou ? {:-{
" a snotbag donkey and the whinging warlock " 8) :-))
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You're a very naughty buoy Mark :D {-) {-) {-)
Cheers
Scoop
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Daves been away on a mission for Bernard.
I am wetting myself laughing here - I'm just thinking of the instructions one would recieve from Bernard for a 'mission' {-) {-) {-)
No offence intended Bernard - laughing with you mate. :-))
Dave
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In all the postings about the accident members of OMRA have kept saying we don't know what happened. On a forum Jim's R/C Boat Dock www.jrcbd.com in the topic "OMRA an accident waiting to happen" Mr Anthony Gilder stated that the kayaker Mr Nigel Hatton was OK. Now one year on and 6 operations later. Still needing medical care, Nigel is unfortunately not OK! After one operation Nigel suffered a collapsed lung and a blood clot.
Any one can ask the Harbour Master's office in Torquay for a copy of the report. It cannot be refused under the Freedom of Information Act. It will have to be redacted under the Data Protection Act. To hide personnel details won't it Mr Anthony McCarthy, Mr David McCarthy, Mr Robert McCarthy and Mr Paul Dyer ?
So if we don't know the the facts. Rather than keep saying that INFORM US!
"Offshore" we don't care what qualifications people on the chase boat have, so he got a gold star at primary school for running in the egg and spoon race. Also you stated on this forum at 02:42:40 PM on the 24/9/2012 that "No video's were actually played in court !!". Well I'm expecting any day now a copy of the video played in court. Being sent to me by someone who was at the court hearing. Where you ?
What matters is the accident, why it happened and what can and should be done to prevent another accident. SAFTY, SAFTY, SAFTY !
Why did the OOD Mr Tony Ellis not mention in the drivers meeting OMRA Rule 11.3. Then two sets of eye would be looking ahead, the chase boat pilot and the observer for the model boat driver. I would have thought an 18 foot red Kayak is an obstacle worth mentioning and avoiding, don't you ?
The race was on open water with other users. No safty marshalls patrolling the course. No cordoned off area, just a larger turn buoy and a start finish gate 3 to 4 mile apart. We all have a Duty of Care, model boater to model boater and model boater to the public.
Last years OMRA's Health and Safty was a straight copy the MPBA's one. MPBA have for many years banned running on Tidal and Coastal waters. So how can a policy only written for inland waters have any validity for OMRA's races in the sea ? On OMRA's web site last year it showed that the races at Penzance, that the Saturday was a Chase Boat Race and Sunday an Endurance Race. Why did the notice sent by them to the local council that the Saturday was a practise day and not a Chase Boat Race ?
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I think most decent people just want to see the right thing done for Nigel,did anyone from OMRA contact him to say sory after the incident or since ?.
Mart
Hi Mart
To date I believe no one has apologised to Nigel, seems like a case of stick yer head in a bucket of sand and it will all go away type attitude.
Still with the latest revellations it looks like it's all going to come out in the washing so to speak, not forgetting the private prosecution(s)
Lets hope you don't need too many more hospital visits Nigel, get well soon.
Regards
Scoop
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[/quote]At one of the first ever BMPRS races at Willen Lake, one of the boats lost radio signal and had to be rescued from the public boating zone on the far side of the lake. It was a miracle that the windsurfers using the lake were not badly injured.
i remember that well,it wasnt wind surfers but people water skiing on the ski rope rail,took me ages to find the boat lol as i was in the rescue boat with some one else,we did have a nice day out though sight seeing on the lake,it was a mishap and as far as i am aware the only one that has happened, :embarrassed: :embarrassed:, kurt black magic racing
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ha ha ha
below statement made in a removed post by corbymodelboats
"BMPRS don’t exactly have a blemish-free record. At one of the first ever BMPRS races at Willen Lake, one of the boats lost radio signal and had to be rescued from the public boating zone on the far side of the lake. It was a miracle that the windsurfers using the lake were not badly injured"
my reply
bmprs have had this one incident that i carried out a full report into ! it turned out to be a driver error in the use of his contoller but as such highlighted a possible problem to which was addressed ! as for slagging and dragging the hobby ! lets look at why this was really started !
omra have had at least 2 accidents that have required people to have medical attention ! but both were probly avoidable !
and the attitude when swimmers were in the water within 50m of an event of "tough " !
oh by the way i am qualified (nebosh) to do these types of reports and structure health and safety guide lines before anyone wants to ask !
all i want to see is people enjoying the hobby and not covering things up ! there are lessons to be learned by all if an accident happens but its when people call others liars etc for telling the truth we get to situations like what we have now !
i know ive been slagged of by omra committee and others but one question to them is " why was i really kicked out " not the reasons in the letter you sent or posted was it !!
i was seen to be out spoken on the matters of health and safety and the organisation of racers in which i had fore seen problems ( chase boat ) as of the words of jkd "he wanted omra to return to what it use to be "
well like i said to him were in a world of litigation and what was possible 15 - 20 yrs ago isnt as easy now with people waiting to claim for the slightest mishap !
i for one would love to see nothing more than people racing and running boats everywhere possible but bare in mind todays society !
think of me what you like but i hope i have made at least the odd person think about the next time they run a boat "is it safe or not"
bmprs's health and safety is constantly looked at to see if improvements can be made,(ours isnt a copy of some other societies) at every organised race meeting a risk assesment is carried out and copies are kept on file
whilst im not saying were the perfect society ( what ever that may be !) we intend to offer the best we can in respect of our members enjoying there hobby and there safety at organised race meeting !
one last thing are earlier statements jkd made true ?
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At one of the first ever BMPRS races at Willen Lake, one of the boats lost radio signal and had to be rescued from the public boating zone on the far side of the lake. It was a miracle that the windsurfers using the lake were not badly injured.
i remember that well,it wasnt wind surfers but people water skiing on the ski rope rail,took me ages to find the boat lol as i was in the rescue boat with some one else,we did have a nice day out though sight seeing on the lake,it was a mishap and as far as i am aware the only one that has happened, :embarrassed: :embarrassed:, kurt black magic racing
Hi Kurt,
If I remember correctly the escaping model boat was on tickover and somehow managed to get itself over the boom in the water :o This incident highlighted a problem with other lake users being on the lake at the same time, that's why we took the decision not to race at Willen anymore O0
Cheers
Scoop
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This topic has pretty much run its course. The arguments have come full circle.
The topic is also becoming partisan and further discussion, as outlined in the main topic title, may not be '...good for the hobby'.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, ultimately nothing can be settled on here, it is a matter for the courts to decide.
After receiving numerous complaints from members about this topic it is now locked, as there is nothing new to say.
***Topic locked***