Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Southern Sailor on April 28, 2013, 07:57:51 pm
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Good day clever people. I am going to dare to put some pics of my Portgarth build on the forum in the hope that I get some constructive criticism. Biggest problems to date: The size of the motors necessitating them to be staggered fore and aft; the recess right where the deck supports go - I filled in the recess with body filler; the deck would not go in past the gunwales after I had put in the beams - I cut the deck in two down the centre line after reading Terry Small's article on Avenger in May Model Boats Magazine. I now have to install the deck but things keep on cropping up that need to be put in/done before that happens - most frustrating! Happy sailing.
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Interesting pix and food for thought on your radio installation.
You've got a bit further than me but I'm not going to rush it having learnt from past experience..... :-))
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I am watching with great interest as I am trying to build one. This is my 1st boat building project.
Graham
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Welcome Southern Sailor........
I do like the concept of using circular or oval rings for embedding components with epoxy :-)) you end up with a superior structural joint & far tidier that a dollop of epoxy :(( oozing over the hull
However are those toggle switches unique? %) .....from where I stand they appear to be marked as ON/ON %% ..... Derek
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Hi Guys. Thanks for your replies.
Firstly, Derek the toggle switches are actually double throw - centre off. They were too big for the configuration that you see in that pic and were later swopped for micro switches. As it turned out, all the switches were later moved to a position forward of the motors (see the later pic) to enable me to access them from the opening below the deckhouse. So I could have used them, and would have preferred to use them as the micro switches are very small (the motors however draw very low current and the experts say that these switches will be ok).
By the way, the pics lost their captions so must be a bit confusing - anyone know how to make the captions stick??
Secondly, some further comments. 1. The little dams around the prop shafts, rudder posts and prop shaft supports must be fully glue-ed down to the hull. I used superglue and in the event of pouring resin in, they leaked resin all over the place - a messy business. 2. The centre styrene dowels on the beams were intended to form a slight camber in the deck when glueing the deck in, but after I cut the deck in two down the centre line, the dowels would now create a ridge. I have not done it yet but the two dowels on either side of the centre dowels is my revised attempt at creating the camber. I will have to hold the deck down against the centre dowel.
I have a question. The plans show shoulders on either side of the skeg/keel and the stern end. Can anyone tell me what there purpose is?
Happy sailing
Brian
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Thank you so much for sharing this build. I am about to start an Eldergarth build soon ( yep it will be my first build too) so your info is really helpful as it shows how you have overcome some of the issues you have encountered
I will reciprocate by sharing my fumbling efforts when I start.
Ray
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Thats looking good brian,you will have some power with your motors :-)) .
regards John B
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Hi John B. I am looking forward with interest to seeing just what power I will have. The motors are big but not too sure what their performance will be. They certainly were difficult to fit in, for a novice. I saw a U-Tube clip of a Portgarth model that must have had large brushless motors in it as it looked more like a speedboat than a tug by the way it was careering around the pond. Doubt if I will have that. Cheers and happy sailing. Brian
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Help please.
WEll, my deck is still not on {:-{ ! That is due to some time at shows, household chores, and most importantly a change in plan. At a recent show a tug master came over to chat to me and he gave me some great tips on manouvering modern tugs. Now, I am using straight-through propshafts (the Z-drives were not available when I bought the kit) and independant control on each of port and stbd props. I had not planned on using a bow thruster as the full size boat does not have one. But I am now so keen on it that I am putting one in - my motivation being that I have lost some manouverability by not using the Z-drives and so I am justified in putting a bow-thruster in to compensate. A bit of a thin argument I know, but the best I can do.
Problem is I want to use the 12V main battery to power a 7,2V-8,4V ESC for the bow thruster that I have. Anyone got any advice on how to reduce the 12V to between 7,2V and 8,4V? Help needed please! Thanks and happy sailing. Brian
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Hi Brian cant you use a separate battery for your thruster , i have run my one on 6 v works ok.
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Hi Brian cant you use a separate battery for your thruster , i have run my one on 6 v works ok.
Also as you won't need to use the Bow thrusters as much as the main drives then you can get away with a smaller sized battery
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You've got a bit further than me but I'm not going to rush it having learnt from past experience..... :-))
Ha, I've been at least two years on mine now and still not this far - I'm too easily distracted!
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brian,
bowthrusters of 12 volts ain't a problem, just fit an action P 93
multicontroller from components-shop have twotugs fitted with them
excellent gear.
ken.
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Hi all. Ken I have often wanted for some time to use the AcTion equipment as it looks great and now may be a good time to start. Also I had wanted to get away from using an extra battery, and the P93 would do it. It would also solve the drive of the radar motors (I am planning to use helicopter tail rotor motors or a micro servo motor and gear train for this) and perhaps the nav and steaming lights control as well. I have a local boffin on electronics who hopefully is coming up with a good solution that won't hurt the pocket too much. If he does I will let you know what the solution is. Happy sailing all. Brian
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Well I have tried twice to post this, but nothing has appeared on the forum yet, so here goes for a third time. Hope I don't eventually end up with 3 versions of the same posting!
The inside of the hull is now painted, and I can find things that fall into the boat! Also the outside of the hull has been painted with red ocre and the upper hull exterior has a few coats of blue paint now. I am a bit nervous as to what I will find when I take off the masking tape - how will I deal with the ridge which will probably be there?
Following a recent article on motor suppression in Model Boats Magazine, I intend connecting the negative terminals of the two 12V gel cells to the port stern tube on which I have left a section unpainted outside the hull. Anyone any comments on this? I am using an Electronize ESC on each motor.
Cheers for now. Brian
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The inside of the hull is now painted, and I can find things that fall into the boat! Also the outside of the hull has been painted with red ocre and the upper hull exterior has a few coats of blue paint now. I am a bit nervous as to what I will find when I take off the masking tape - how will I deal with the ridge which will probably be there?
If you take the tape off using a warm air gun you will have time to run your finger gently along the join. This will crush down the slight ridge if you are careful.
Hope this helps.
ken
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Thanks Ken. I unfortunately had removed the masking tape before I read your reply and the tape was off. However, it came our very nicely, although there is a ridge. I want to spray a coat or coats over the paintwork to finish it off and protect the surface,and the literature says to use a clear satin finish lacquer spray. Unfortunately I have used oil based enamel and so lacquer on top of it will bubble. I am thinking of using a satin finish, oil based clear varnish for this. Can anyone tell me if that will not work, before I ruin what (I think) is quite a nice finish? Thanks and happy sailing. Brian
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Personally I would leave well alone UNLESS of course you can get a laquer/varnish of the same make as your paint
Dave
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My reaction as well Dave. I was waiting for your advice. I never varnish my boats as the paint seems keep clean with the water anyway. :-))
Cheers
Ken
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Good day all. I am busy with the deck/wheel house , electronic switches for lights and radar scanners, mast etc. Was browsing through my album and thought I would attach a photo of the method I used for marking the holes for the thruster tube. Might be useful to someone. Happy sailing. Brian
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hi
looks a very nice build
like the look of your motors what make are they
cheeky question how much do they cost??
where can i buy them ???
regards deepstar
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Hi Deepstar. I bought the motors from Mobile Marine Models in 2002. I have only been able to get going with my hobby since retiring 2 years ago hence the delay in this build. The motors are really smooth and low drain with plenty of grunt, but I would stay away from them as they have brushes and terminals housed in attachments on the sides making them very wide. I had to stagger them in the boat to get them to fit. I believe that MMM now have some really nice alternatives. I have at last plucked up the courage to fix in the rear deck. I had some unusual advice form my brother (an excellent modeler); he says to use soluble glue so that if you have forgotten anything you can get the deck off again! I don't always listen to his advice!
Happy sailing. Brian
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Some more progress. Hopefully this post will go through as I broke the rules with the previous attempt. The skipper has now been appointed and is seen overseeing the build. Cheers for now.
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Any more on this? Why do all boat builds suddenly die {:-{
A very different approach here to my Portgarth build
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Hi T33cno. I moved house last year and only got the workshop up and running this February. This year I gave way to the temptation to build the colossus class aircraft carrier HMS Goliath designed by Glynn Guest. That is nearly done now and so it will then be back to Portgarth. I will post some photos of my Portgarth as it stands now and also the build of Goliath. I would be interested to know in what way my build approach differed from yours. Portgarth was my first almost scratch build and I am sure it could have been done better and easier. Cheers for now and happy sailing. Brian
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Great to hear from you Brian :-))
My build thread is here for comparison
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57583.0.html
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Hi T33cno. I have been looking with much admiration at your build. You have done a really great job and your photos contain a wealth of tips for the modeler. In your thread, you have a photo of my mast under construction. Did you find an easier way of doing it? I still have to think out how to make the mast lights {:-{ . For the wiring, the plan is to take the positive leads down through the mast and use the mast itself as the negative. Using grain of wheat bulbs at 12 volts. Deck house and control panel lights are LEDs. Cheers for now. Brian
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Thank you for the compliments
I'm in admiration of your mast that I have yet to begin
All I have is the led kit from MMM and I did imagine using the brass as the ground connection.
Where did you get your ideas for the control room ? Looking good :-))
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I had rewired/refitted a used Afon Alaw before starting my Portgarth and that is where I initially developed my ideas with paxolin and across three models I've invested around £800 in kit from the component shop largely action electronics
Using Sikafkex adhesive which is flexible comes from experience of fitting solar panels on motorhomes
I pride myself in having good basic craft skills which is most of the battle but the advice given me during construction was invaluable and steered me on the right course
Still lots of knowledge to acquire to get to a finished vessel
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T33cno, I contacted Mike Jeenes on this forum and he was a great help to me, sending a whole lot of photos of the actual Portgarth and also his build which was also very good. I got the ideas for the control room and panels from him. I am sure he won't mind if I send them on to you, so let me have your email address and I will try to get them in a form suitable for forwarding to you (not very good at the electronic thing!). The lights on the control panels have not come out as well as I had hoped and I might re-do the fiber optics to get them more effective. Cheers. Brian
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Thank you Brian
[email protected]. Very much appreciated
I'm not fussed about my email being public :police:
Are you SURE
ken
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Message sent. Can you tell me how to view the photos that I have posted on this forum? Thanks. Brian
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I can see all your photos in this thread
Perhaps you have a poor data connection ?
I've received your email but no pictures have come though
Regards Andy
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I've got the pictures now thanks. Have you any with bigger file sizes? or are they as you were sent originally?
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This is what I'm getting but quite small
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Portgarth/i-TGhCKZT/0/O/Untitled%20attachment%2000037.dat.jpg)
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Andy I will see what I can do about the file size. I must say that Mike's photos were great and gave me lots to work with. The scale limits one's scope a lot. Update photos on the Portgarth build should be here in a week or two from now. Cheers. Brian
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Hi Brian. I hope you are well and looking at finishing your build :-))
Could you offer me advice on what you have done here as it looks like you have draw wires?
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43033.0;attach=147196;image)
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Hi Andy. I have just spent about an hour replying to you but then attached a photo that was apparently too big, and it all disappeared >>:-( . Is there some way of retrieving that which was lost? Brian
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Email it Brian and I'll post it
[email protected]
If the page is still open the back button may reveal your post to copy and paste
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Hi Andy. I have just spent about an hour replying to you but then attached a photo that was apparently too big, and it all disappeared >>:-( . Is there some way of retrieving that which was lost? Brian
.... sorry.... no.
If you had tried 'Alt + cursor left' or 'Ctrl + z' straight afterwards there may have been a chance.... {:-{
I had a look in the lost post bin, not there either, sorry.
M
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Thanks for trying Martin
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Yes, thanks for trying Martin. I will re-write later tonight. B
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Hi Andy, trying again. Things are fine here in the deep south, thanks. Just finishing off HMS Goliath which I will post when complete.
WRT Portgarth mast. It was a lot of work. All brass. The mast itself will act as the negative with the positive wires from the mast lights going through the arms and down inside the mast itself. The arms are secured to the mast inside sleeves. The sleeves themselves go through the mast till just outside the other side. Each sleeve has a hole in the bottom. inside the mast, through which the positive wire goes into the mast. The access from the other side of the mast allowed me to guide the wiring from the arm into the hole and down the mast. Worked OK. The light bases are out of 5mm brass nuts. I still have to design and build the lights. Any tips here? I still have to add these to the mast cage without un-soldering the cage itself. The ladder cage was built up on a wooden broom handle.
I will post the photo separately.
Any tips on how to keep a soldering iron tip clean?
Cheers and happy building and sailing. Brian
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This is the way I built the ladder cage. B
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That's very inventive :-))
I've ordered this recently 1:50 scale but looks like it will do the job. I found the white metal MMM ladder to be totally poor and bin fodder
https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/en_GB/a-37885722/ladders/ladder-with-backrest-800-346-1-50/ (https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/en_GB/a-37885722/ladders/ladder-with-backrest-800-346-1-50/)
re soldering. I use this temperature controlled unit up to 480 degrees and lead free solder, not sure if that's relevant as it's my first experience but it seems to be working. The foam pad is wetted before each use and the soldering tip wiped clean frequently.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-vTvq2Sj/0/af6af86e/X3/IMG_1417-X3.jpg)
As for the lights I bought the LED kit with fittings from MMM which seem Ok although a white LED is missing having just checked the contents >:-o
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-qpSwxhv/0/5d17214f/X3/IMG_1418-X3.jpg)
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its your call put for soldering brass I fine lead free worse than lead solder .
John
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its your call put for soldering brass I fine lead free worse than lead solder .
John
Thanks John, as I said I have no experience but I will follow your advice in future :-))
I think temperature is the issue and having 480 degrees at my disposal has made it relatively easy so far but a lot of cleaning excess off
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You will get that. Its worse with lead free ,You still get it with lead solder . I find pluming flux very good . When all the job is done wash the job in very hot soapy water and its ready for painting . I too have a available heat iron . I just get lazy and leave 450 even for small jobs
John
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I go the whole hog full power {-) thanks John
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With Brian's input I think my method will be to fit a short stub of tube just penetrating the mast for each light and insert a draw wire from something like a strand of bicycle gear or brake cable then fit the suitable length of smaller tube to each light. See how it goes quite soon. :-))
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Regarding the draw wires, I used a very fine twisted steel wire, probably from the fishing guys. This is flexible but stiff enough to be pushed down the mast, past the other tubes below. I have taken the mast down through the wheel house into the deck house as the only way I could think of to get the wires there. There is no room in the ceiling of the wheelhouse after the wheelhouse lighting and the two radar motors are in. Any tips on how to join the electric wires together in the deck house below? A single cable connector just seems a bit clumsy. Brian
By the way I think a damp sponge may solve my cleaning problem with solder tips. Thanks.
I am using grain of wheat bulbs in the mast lights. I think they will be easier than LEDs where the lights are double. One bulb should do the double as well as the single. B
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MMM use large and small LED's . small for the double all round lights.
This is a helpful guide by Component Shop
http://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/
I'm not bothering with working radar myself
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MMM use large and small LED's . small for the double all round lights.
This is a helpful guide by Component Shop
http://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/ (http://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/)
However MMM show connection in parallel not in series as the guide above. They provide a resistor pack and advise 2 LED's in parallel with one resistor for 6 volts OR 3 LED's in parallel with one resistor for 12 volts.
Parallel is the only option for the mast as we are using the brass as a common negative
I'm not bothering with working radar myself
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Further study reveals that even in parallel it is best practice to fit each LED with its own resistor. Failing to do this can result in a cascade of failures if one LED croaked.
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Mmm I may have to re-think. I have designed a system that brings all light leads to a circuit board and, for the LEDs suitable resistor/s on the circuit board. I am using LEDs in parallel for the deck house lighting.
In the double mast lights, can you get the top LED leads passed the lower LED inside the fitting? They will need to be insulated too. I am hoping that one gow bulb will shine top and bottom in the double lights.
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I see you are using gasket material for the quarterdeck hatch. I used silicone sealant. Place silicone on the deck rim around the hatch support and cover the mating surface on the underside of the hatch itself with Vaseline. Press the hatch home and leave for 24 hours. Remove, trim and clean and you have an effective seal. I'm still going to cover the Rx and ESC to prevent water dripping on to them in the case of leaks. Brian
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Check out new fishing boat in working vessels. I always fit each LED with a resistor no problem if one goes pop. My last big build has three suspended lights two red one white all fitted with very small LED and turned on via a action quad switch.Will find some pictures and post on mayhem.
Stan. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Mmm I may have to re-think. I have designed a system that brings all light leads to a circuit board and, for the LEDs suitable resistor/s on the circuit board. I am using LEDs in parallel for the deck house lighting.
In the double mast lights, can you get the top LED leads passed the lower LED inside the fitting? They will need to be insulated too. I am hoping that one gow bulb will shine top and bottom in the double lights.
My double lights only use one LED Brain. As the top and bottom are red lenses they both show the light I believe.
Thanks Stan for that too
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HI Guys just a few pictures. Picture One. Resistors fitted under cab floor in new fishing boat these are for the mast lights and deck lights.
Picture Two. Resistors fitted in wheel house roof these are for mast lights, Bulkhead lights and Navi lights on my minesweeper.
Picture Three. Suspended working lights on minesweeper. All L E D in my models are wired in parallel. I may some better pictures just pm me if you need them
Stan. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Hi Stan. I did respond to your pm. Did you get it? Brian
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You will get that. Its worse with lead free ,You still get it with lead solder . I find pluming flux very good . When all the job is done wash the job in very hot soapy water and its ready for painting . I too have a available heat iron . I just get lazy and leave 450 even for small jobs
John
Over the months that have passed I have found you're guidance to be a priceless turning point and use flux paste mostly in addition to resin core leaded solder :-)) thank you John.
How is Brian getting on? I wonder
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Wow that woke me up. Time I get back to Portgarth. Good day gents. I've been waylaid by a quick build of the aircraft carrier HMS Goliath. I have some photos of Portgarth electrics which I will post when I get to it today. Thanks for the posts. Brian
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Great stuff :-)) merry Christmas :-)
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The photos that Brian kindly shared of the wheelhouse interior can be found in this gallery along with photos supplied by member Kevgarth
All most useful/priceless for my own build, I hope they are to you.
https://techno.smugmug.com/Portgrath/Portgarth/i-Fm93khS
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I have finished the wheelhouse roof structure and want to fix it to the wheelhouse. Before I do that the wheelhouse interior details must be finished. The wiring from the roof goes down to the deck house via conduits and once that is done it will be difficult to get the roof off again. I am busy with the glazing of the windows right now and what a tedious job that is.
I am soon going to start on the stairways up the deck house and between deck levels. Any tips on how to build these from anyone? Brian
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Great to hear from you :-)) If you want any pictures posting you can email as before Brian.
If I could start over I would use these Caldercraft pictured. The MMM templates are terribly wrong and made to fit their white metal ladders that are too narrow.
These would need joining to achieve enough length
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-D3hBP79/0/0881f8b8/X3/050561D4-CD53-4BF6-AF79-0EB92FEAEB77-X3.jpg)
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Thanks Andy. I love your work. Your Portgarth looks beautiful. How did you get electrics into the wheelhouse roof? I have radar drive motors and lights there. Brian
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I have no lights Brian. I decided against it in the end
Thank you
EDIT
However when I was intending to! the wires would have been run up the side of the floor to ceiling shelving that has boxed in section against it
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8G5LXjV/0/c2c77912/X3/i-8G5LXjV-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JVHj3h6/0/6b343e64/X3/i-JVHj3h6-X3.jpg)
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Good idea Andy. I have two vertical conduits on each side wall and its going to be a tight squeeze to get the cables through. A box would have made it easier.
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That box section is as per the internal pictures you gave me :-))
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Portgrath/Portgarth/i-r9bF36P/0/7f6f3651/O/Untitled%20attachment%2000055.jpg)
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Dash it. I missed that one! >:-o . The shelves too. Oh well I'm not brave enough to put the shelves and box in at this stage. Should have chatted to you earlier!
I am going to add some of the detail behind the RIB that I have seen in your photos. I see that you took the rear wall of the deck house down to the lower deck. I pondered over this but decided against it. Will post some photos later.
How do you get your colour boundaries so neat? I don't get crisp lines which you will see in the photos.
Brian
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I just use masking tape and plenty of paint. After tape removal there is enough paint thickness to lightly sand off any bleed before a finish of satin lacquer. My rear wall and indeed the whole base of the deckhouse has plenty of lacquer to stop it soaking up any water
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The wheel house so far
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Wheel house ceiling
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Wheel house roof so far
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Looking good Brian.
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I appointed a crew but they are a rough looking lot. The skipper is on the left. Any ideas where I can get a more respectable looking bunch?
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I use the Graupner crew figures. A choice of 5 in 1:32