Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: teddyt on February 28, 2014, 06:41:36 pm
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having just come to the world of boats and not knowing anyone local to me(Towcester Northants) I have been trolling the shores of ebay. there are a lot of boats for sale, some clearly toys others its hard to tell.
so as per the title when does a toy become something I can take to the local pond, and not be laughed at.... is it purlely size or speed or construction
may seem a stupid question but i really do need help with this
thanks
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The more cheap and plastic and common...the more the laughter {-) {-)
Saying that... i have a rtr ( ready to run out of the box ) st tropez, it is a really good little boat :-))
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only ignorant people would laugh at someone else's model,....anyone laughing at mine ..had better not stand too close to the edge...and have a towel with them..... :}
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They may laugh but so what.. I have seen many toys converted to models, Who would think Lego would make such a good floating boat with some work done to it but I have seen a few good examples, some on here as well, Kettles, Water urns turned into boats.. If it floats its fun.. If it sinks its just as fun, Unless you can not get it back and then it's oops... :}
Re The Lego Boat, Built by a forum member and his son.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7iCAi6ZzA&list=UUOC1pccPUvQE1OrX_MHv1cg&feature=c4-overview
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If you play with it, it's a toy, if it sits under a cover all its life it's a model and on fleebay, if it's made from wood it's Vintage. Haven't worked out on the flee, what other way is there of making a toy/model apart from "Hand built?"
Regards Ian.
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:-)) They are both toys and models,models when we are building them but when we get to play with them at the lake they are our toys,we are all kids really just a bit bigger and greyer, so if you get pleasure from it all the better so go out there with anything that floats and enjoy,Ray. :-)) :-))
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If some one represents a boat with paint on canvas its art. Why is a three dimensional representation not????? {-)
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If some one represents a boat with paint on canvas its art. Why is a three dimensional representation not????? {-)
That is an excellent point.
Colin
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so why are they called big boys toys? We can call it what we like,and those who take the mickey dont get the fun we do!
Mick F
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Re: When is a toy a toy and a model a model (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46610.msg471511.html#msg471511)
the price usually has something to do with it and big boys toys can fit that category.
Frank
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:-)) Your right there Mick not only don't they get the fun we do but they don't meet the nice people we do,nothing like a Sunday morning at the lake with all your mates something alway's happens that gets a good laugh out of the lads would not miss it for the world,Ray. :-)) :-))
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call mine what you like.....to me they are my BABIES {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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In my book 'toys' include in the box everything that you need to play with them, except maybe the batteries. If you have to buy the bits separately then the chances are it's a model.
But suit yourselves anyway!
DM
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I suppose we could ask the question "Who really cares?" ;D
Peter.
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I think we should not lose sight of the fact that there is an important point here that is easily overlooked.
A model of something that no longer exists in the real world is by far the best means of conveying just what that original looked like as it is in three dimensions and not two as in a painting or other illustration. Accurate models show not just what the original looked like but provide an insight as to how it worked as well. If you don't have the models then a lot of historical information is in danger of being lost. Many museums have taken their models off display or have simply got rid of them and a great deal is being lost as a result just because they think that 'interactive displays' (which often break down) are the way to maintain visitor interest. Model ships really do give an ideal of 'scale' in relation to the human dimension which paintings can rarely equal.
Colin
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I understand your comment Colin......."'interactive displays'
(which often break down) are the way to maintain visitor interest" according to the administrators of museums etc.......and I am sure these decisions were made after careful reference to many studies & on-line surveys of what people want to see in the museum........
Sadly....the model boating fraternity by % of visitors surveyed just did not rate in their request to keep model vessels in glass cases for all to see...or "the splendour" from our perspective......Derek
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When we tell the with its a model and not a toy to go play with down at the pond.
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I suppose we could ask the question "Who really cares?" ;D
Peter.
totally agree peter, and that is why I tried to be so "irreverent" about the question in my first answer........who does really care so long as the owner gets pleasure from "playing" with it.
and that's all that counts.
neil
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I think we should not lose sight of the fact that there is an important point here that is easily overlooked.
A model of something that no longer exists in the real world is by far the best means of conveying just what that original looked like as it is in three dimensions and not two as in a painting or other illustration. Accurate models show not just what the original looked like but provide an insight as to how it worked as well. If you don't have the models then a lot of historical information is in danger of being lost. Many museums have taken their models off display or have simply got rid of them and a great deal is being lost as a result just because they think that 'interactive displays' (which often break down) are the way to maintain visitor interest. Model ships really do give an ideal of 'scale' in relation to the human dimension which paintings can rarely equal.
Colin
I don't think anyone has lost sight of anything Colin.. We were all just having a light hearted banter about toys and boys until you started rambling about museums giving away their toys in favour of other toys.............keep in touch with the thread man, and lighten the conversation a little bit before you start philosophising as you often do, loosing the thread and will to live for others, lol {-) {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %% %% %%
and as Peter and others have said.........who really cares...the lakeside is one thing.......museums and what they do and offer are totally different and on another planet for the rest of us with no bearing on this happy little topic.
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I agree with what peter and neil says... its to enjoy no matter what you sail..
You get grief from the wife, friends, family and work.. its the only pleasure, stress free that you get.. well unless you are in with the wrong society or club. lol
%% {-)
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before you start philosophising
Gosh Neil, you flatter me, you really do.... :-)
Colin
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Guys....I don't think the extension to the thread made by Colin was or is inappropriate in the understanding of the original question ;)
Moreover it helps to differentiate between a plastic model purchased ready made.......ready to sail from a box to a model vessel as traditionally considered
It appears too easy to be too dismissive {-) so could I suggest the old Proverb ......'people in glass houses.........' should apply O0 Derek
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well you lot,I am going to have fun! While you are all sat in front of your computers I am going to take advantage of the fact that there is no rain at the moment,and go down to the lake to play/operate my model/toy boat/ship
Now where is that ruddy battery charger thingy
O0 O0 O0 O0 :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :-)) :-)) :-)) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mick F
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:-)) Well Mick that's the best bit of sense I have heard today enjoy,Ray. :-)) :-)) :-))
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rottweiler...... %) it's pouring cats & dogs here in Wollongong today <:( ...so I have been playing & thinking how to support that 1/8" diameter x 135 mm high brass solid bar piece of my model toy......... {-) Derek
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Simple definition for me.
If an RTR comes with a broad 27mhz TX (no specific channel) that has a short range and gets jambed by hobby grade TX, then I personally consider it a toy. But some toys get their guts ripped out, and a makeover and can them be considered models. e.g. Seaport tugs.
As for toys in general, my most expensive toy had a 900cc engine and did not go on the water.
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As for toys in general, my most expensive toy had a 900cc engine and did not go on the water.
sounds like my sort of toy TT....luvly jubbly
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Gosh Neil, you flatter me, you really do.... :-)
Colin
aye Colin, a bit of Humour.....now calm down ol' boy, calm down, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
we'll be havin' a laugh together before we know it {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %% %% %%
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well you lot,I am going to have fun! While you are all sat in front of your computers I am going to take advantage of the fact that there is no rain at the moment,and go down to the lake to play/operate my model/toy boat/ship
Now where is that ruddy battery charger thingy
O0 O0 O0 O0 :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :-)) :-)) :-)) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mick F
which of the 20 odd are you taking today then matey.
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That's awesome ! But......is it a toy model or a model toy {-)
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You can get stylized ornaments that will only ever gather dust - they are not models because there was no intention to get accuracy, they are not toys because they cost too much to play with, so they must be art.
When you consider working items, if it comes out of a box and has no user serviceable items, it is a toy.
If the owner made it, and you can tell what it represents, and he can fix it as needed, it is a model. Some models are rough n ready, some can only be described as art, but working, functioning art.
And there is a great big grey area where categorizing is pointless or difficult or both.
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It's a point of view thing.
For people that appreciate models there is a smallish grey area between things they see as a model and see as a toy.
For the rest of humanity they are all toys - it's just some are too expensive and fragile to let the kids play with.
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Regarding Colin's comment about museums - fortunately, not all museums I have visited subscribe to the "interactive" theory at the expense of models. We are currently on the far south coast of NSW, in our caravan, and yesterday we visited the Killer Whale Museum in Eden. There is an excellently presented display on the history of whaling at Twofold Bay, complete with some well made models of boats involved in that activity. The display definitely means more to the viewer because of the models.
In Ballina NSW, where my local club is based, there is an outstanding Maritime Museum, one of the best of its type I've seen. It is full of magnificent ship models, a large number of which were made by the late Doug Stewart. Doug lived in Brisbane, and made models for pleasure, but lacked the necessary storage capacity. He approached the Brisbane Maritime Museum, asking if they would be interested in displaying the models, but was turned down. His daughter, who lives in Ballina, suggested he contact the Ballina Museum, who accepted his offer. Doug's only condition was that the museum provide a display case for each model, quite an expensive exercise, but they readily agreed, and we now have a wonderful collection of model ships on display. There are models by other builders, too, as well as a large collection of maritime related artifacts.
The centrepiece of the museum is one of the Las Balsas rafts, more information here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Balsas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Balsas) It's a story well worth reading.
The museum's website is here http://www.ballinamaritimemuseum.org.au/index.html (http://www.ballinamaritimemuseum.org.au/index.html)
Peter.
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I think it depends largely on the gender of the person talking. :embarrassed:
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Regarding Colin's comment about museums - fortunately, not all museums I have visited subscribe to the "interactive" theory at the expense of models. We are currently on the far south coast of NSW, in our caravan, and yesterday we visited the Killer Whale Museum in Eden. There is an excellently presented display on the history of whaling at Twofold Bay, complete with some well made models of boats involved in that activity. The display definitely means more to the viewer because of the models.
In Ballina NSW, where my local club is based, there is an outstanding Maritime Museum, one of the best of its type I've seen. It is full of magnificent ship models, a large number of which were made by the late Doug Stewart. Doug lived in Brisbane, and made models for pleasure, but lacked the necessary storage capacity. He approached the Brisbane Maritime Museum, asking if they would be interested in displaying the models, but was turned down. His daughter, who lives in Ballina, suggested he contact the Ballina Museum, who accepted his offer. Doug's only condition was that the museum provide a display case for each model, quite an expensive exercise, but they readily agreed, and we now have a wonderful collection of model ships on display. There are models by other builders, too, as well as a large collection of maritime related artifacts.
The centrepiece of the museum is one of the Las Balsas rafts, more information here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Balsas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Balsas) It's a story well worth reading.
The museum's website is here http://www.ballinamaritimemuseum.org.au/index.html (http://www.ballinamaritimemuseum.org.au/index.html)
Peter.
A few years ago I had the honour of being taken around the private museum at Blohm & Voss AG in Hamburg...... Now that, is a museum. It is in the basement and they have models down there of absolutely every ship, submarine and aircraft they ever built....... The centrepiece (in a glass case) is a 6 mtr, just short of 20 feet ......... model of the Bismarck. Absolutely amazing. They also still have the drydock that was built (do they build them or excavate them ???) the Bismarck, now Elbe Dock 17. It is massive.......... I want down there when they had an LPG tanker in for repair...... It was lost in a corner.
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Lucky man O0
Peter.
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In my book 'toys' include in the box everything that you need to play with them, except maybe the batteries. If you have to buy the bits separately then the chances are it's a model.
But suit yourselves anyway!
DM
Sounds like a bit of a U-turn coming from you! BY.
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Everything in the box :-))
Makes my DragonForce yacht a toy.
Notwithstanding it can race other yachts
at National and International level.
Ned
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:} Whatever they are I am going to wet my toys/models tomorrow weather permitting, with some rather mature kids,someone once asked me where he could buy one of "those toys" I explained that you have to make them but I don't think he got the point,we know what they are but a lot of people out there don't,Ray. :}
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Sounds like a bit of a U-turn coming from you! BY.
I guess it would do to a zealot. Do you grow your own timber, perhaps?
Bye
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I understand your comment Colin......."'interactive displays' (which often break down) are the way to maintain visitor interest" according to the administrators of museums etc.......and I am sure these decisions were made after careful reference to many studies & on-line surveys of what people want to see in the museum........
Sadly....the model boating fraternity by % of visitors surveyed just did not rate in their request to keep model vessels in glass cases for all to see...or "the splendour" from our perspective......Derek
Interactive displays are introduced for todays children. The majority of these have a concentration span slightly longer than that of a Goldfish. Their ability to read is also not very high so need to have everything displayed by illustrations and 5 word sentences.Nothing involving numbers can be used as they cannot work out simple sums without their Mobile Phones, which they will be looking at most of the time in case their M8s are texting them.Yes , I am a bitter old man!
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I say that they are models - my wife calls them my toys. Ah well - as long as I enjoy playing with them who cares what they are called.
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I say that they are models - my wife calls them my toys. Ah well - as long as I enjoy playing with them who cares what they are called.
here here!!!
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A model is made, a toy played and enjoyed.
So they must be toys ok2
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A model is made
Tell that to Naomi Cambell :-X
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She is not a model model but a model.
She is also a toy, just very very expensive!
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She is not a model model but a model.
She is also a toy, just very very expensive!
Just like SWMBO {-) {-)
Though I don't think the clothes would fit 8)
Ned
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Lol that's sooooooo true
(Carefully looking around to make sure she is not about)
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[size=78%]Tell that to Naomi Cambell [/size] :-X
I can just imagine what SWMBO would say if you mentioned 'toying' about with that 'model'......... <*<
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:-)) I think your sailing in very dangerous waters there mate,mutiny against SWMBO now that takes a brave man,Ray. {-) {-) {-) {-)
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nickyb - sale removed. Account suspended.
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Thanks to all that brought it to our attention. :-))
Cheers
ken
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;) Getting back to the thread when does a toy become a collectable,those toys we played with as a kid are now rare collectables, that 2/6 pocket money we spent on that Dinky toy is multiplied into hundreds of pounds now,we all wished we kept the toys and the boxes as well, I have some toys in the attic some dating back to the 1960s you never know,Ray. :-))
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OK somewhere near topic - collectibles.
Years ago I did trains before the eyesight went and good sense cut in. I recall seeing, in the small ads in the back of Railway Modeller (for the average modeller - HA!) a sale ad for someone flogging a Triang L1, which, being out of production a few years, was a "collector's item". Wanted £10, healthy money back then. Two pages before that, in the New Products news page, "Triang reintroduce LI, £4/19/6". Just goes to show.
I have an AMS9512 with a load of bits in my attic. Disc drives probably need new elastic bands.
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;) we all wished we kept the toys and the boxes as well, I have some toys in the attic some dating back to the 1960s you never know,Ray. :-))
sorry ray..........but I don't.............when you look at all these saddo's on antiques roadshow that turn up with their pristine dinky trucks and cars in their pristine boxes.................you wonder what sort of life they had as a kid...........certainly no fun with them..........
never raced them with their mates on the pavement outside their houses.........never crashed them into each other's cars............my g o d......they must have had sad lives if they only had them bought to look at and then put away in boxes..................
Nah mate..........I had my hundreds of quids worth of fun out of mine when I had them when young............and that pleasure can never be taken away from me.
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From a previous life; dolls houses, if you would let a child play with it unsupervised, it is a toy, otherwise it is a model.
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Model ... 1570s, "likeness made to scale; architect's set of designs," from Middle French modelle, from Latin modulus, "a small measure".
Toy ... c.1300, "amorous playing, sport," later "piece of fun or entertainment" (c.1500), "thing of little value, trifle" (1520s), and "thing for a child to play with" (1580s). Applied as an adjective to things of diminutive size, especially dogs, from 1806.
So in a classic Call My Bluff sense that would suggest they're models. :-))
Andy
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Model ... 1570s, "likeness made to scale; architect's set of designs," from Middle French modelle, from Latin modulus, "a small measure".
Toy ... c.1300, "amorous playing, sport," later "piece of fun or entertainment" (c.1500), "thing of little value, trifle" (1520s), and "thing for a child to play with" (1580s). Applied as an adjective to things of diminutive size, especially dogs, from 1806.
So in a classic Call My Bluff sense that would suggest they're models. :-))
Andy
So a toy is a model of little value, to be played with at a strong risk of being broken. A model is a miniature of value to be kept as such. Our boats often have a dual purpose being part art object, part plaything, and the proportion the the mix of these will vary.
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So a toy is a model of little value, to be played with at a strong risk of being broken. A model is a miniature of value to be kept as such. Our boats often have a dual purpose being part art object, part plaything, and the proportion the the mix of these will vary.
I think we need new word for models boats that are "played with"
How about todels or modys?
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If you enjoy yourself and you have a good time then who gives a hoot what other people think or say.
We all need some down time and we all get it in different ways. ENJOY THE TIME WITH YOUR MODEL REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH PLASTIC IS IN IT !
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Let us not forget the definitive comment,
Models are Big Boys Toys.
Here endeth the lesson %) %) O0 O0
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Models demonstrate clothes on a catwalk.
Any suggestions as to use as a toy will result in loss of teeth :embarrassed:
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Quote from the wife of one of the members of our RC Car Club
"You're just a bunch of big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars"
Can't argue with that!
Or Patsy from Monty Python & The Holy Grail
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/0d42abfd07dae61461c7ab927aa11d9b/tumblr_ml5nej7Ods1r70ozfo5_500.gif)
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I think it can be quite relative.
I know a chap who is getting on a little bit in his years, doesn't have much creative ability by his own admission and not too much money either. He has a RC Boat which he bought at a charity auction a few years back for about £15.
By the scale of most modelers at the lake what he owns is a toy. But to him it's a model, he washes it down with fresh water after every outing and it goes on his shelf for him to look at. He enjoys looking at it as much as sailing it even though it might never win any prizes in shows.
In the same vein I have a beautiful model I spent years making, cost of parts alone was easily above £800 let alone my time spent lovingly crafting it. Last time we took it to the lake my Son bashed it into the side, the mast got snapped off and the railings bent but he had a great time (he was 3 at the time) to him it's a Toy, to me of course it's different. (he's had his own models built since then of course ;) )
All depends who is looking at it and from what perspective they view it I suppose, can there be a right answer?
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Quote from the wife of one of the members of our RC Car Club
"You're just a bunch of big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars"
That's a bit rich coming from a sex whose members almost all seem to have an obsessive interest in 'fashion', talentless 'celebs', soap operas (no they aren't real people!) and the daily lives of the Royal Family. All those woman's magazines have a huge market!
Colin
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That's a bit rich coming from a sex whose members almost all seem to have an obsessive interest in 'fashion', talentless 'celebs', soap operas (no they aren't real people!) and the daily lives of the Royal Family. All those woman's magazines have a huge market!
Colin
WELL SAID COLIN....................boy,oh boy, you're a brave man.........there are women on here you know, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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I have been working on my PhD in "Understanding Women" for half a century.
Despite my continuing high grades in Theory I seem to keep getting F's in the Practical Coursework.
That is why I now specialise in Model Boats instead.
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I have been working on my PhD in "Understanding Women" for half a century.
Despite my continuing high grades in Theory I seem to keep getting F's in the Practical Coursework.
That is why I now specialise in Model Boats instead.
I'm 71 and still trying for a GCE in the subject %% %%
Ned.
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I hear it so often at the lake side , oh it's old men playing with their toy boats . Those that build models are not toy makers they are model makers regardless if the model is working or non working. At one stage models where used to build full size ships , I doubt such models where ever classed as toys. Some of the finest models produced especially the models made by French POWs from the late 18th early 19th century are seen as an art form and have price tags to match .
Bowwave
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I'm 71 and still trying for a GCE in the subject %% %%
Ned.
you'll be trying a long time longer then , Ned............GCE's went down the pan 30 years ago, lol.....they known as GCSE's now adays {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)