Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Jonty on April 30, 2015, 02:35:31 pm

Title: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on April 30, 2015, 02:35:31 pm
   Driving in to Halifax this morning, Radio 3 was playing a choral version of the 1812, not often heard but all the better for that. This cast my mind back, given the 200th anniversary of Waterloo coming up, to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPX7RT9uFUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPX7RT9uFUU)

   
I remember playing this particular recording at London Audio Fairs at the Hotel Russell 50 years ago, and still think it the best. Worth scrolling down to read some of the comments.

    The piece represents Wellington’s victory not at Waterloo but at Vittoria two years earlier. If Beethoven had known that 70 years later Tchaikers would write the 1812 he might well have called it the “1813 Overture”. One better!
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: jaymac on April 30, 2015, 04:48:38 pm
I wonder if anyone else  here  took part in the 150th anniversary Parade in Brussels Stadium we could never understand why they did not like our cap badge (Avatar) :}
Jay
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on April 30, 2015, 05:03:40 pm
  Well, if you will go wogging off the standards of French regiments...
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Netleyned on April 30, 2015, 05:12:37 pm
Wellingtons Victory ???
Though it was Nelsons {:-{
Might be mistaken though  {-) {-)

Ned
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on April 30, 2015, 06:11:39 pm
Oh Ned,
Wasn't Nelson the boating fellow at Trafalgar, and La Duke the land lubber wandering around Spain and France for a while.
 ;) %) :o
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on April 30, 2015, 06:32:10 pm
  Defo (as my Australian sons would say) the Duke of Wellington. Hoarders of Peninsula-related trivia may like to know that there is still a Duke of Berwick (-on-Tweed), but you won't find him in Burke's - he's Spanish.

  Mind you, the present Duke of Wellington has several Spanish titles, so that's only fair.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: derekwarner on April 30, 2015, 11:24:16 pm
Well  >>:-(  what's this all about the?.......a Kiwi from Asia telling a Humberite about history?  :o ...did they mean military or cooking?

Well for my twopence.....here is the only reference I could find combining Wellington & Victory .....BTW...is that you Ned in Western Australia drinking that Swan Larger you were boasting about   {-)... Derek
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: GAZOU on May 01, 2015, 08:01:58 am
Victorious Wellington in Napoleon's Waterloo  :-)) :-)) :-))


 one of the biggest murderers with Hitler <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*<
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 01, 2015, 08:22:29 am
Who are you referring to as the murderer Gazou, Wellington or Napoleon? :o


Ned, even this old born and bred Aussie knows it was Nelson at Trafalgar in 1805, and Wellington at Waterloo 10 years later. Mind you, back in the dark ages when I went to school, we were taught English history, some of which has stuck in my mind O0


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 01, 2015, 08:47:44 am
Gazou and Peter,
its all relative, history being written by the victors.
Peter, you where taught English history, so Napoleon is the baddie.
Gazou, you're French, so Wellington is the baddie.
And you both refer to Hitler as the baddie.
Simple.
In my book they're all tarred with the same brush, all opportunist warmongers.
But, don't start me down that road.
So lets just agree to disagree.
cheers
 :-))
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 01, 2015, 09:12:25 am
ENGLISH history...and you wonder why the Scots want independence ? >:-o  BRITISH history if you please.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Netleyned on May 01, 2015, 09:14:53 am
Don't remember anyone called Wellington on the Victory :D :D


Ned
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 01, 2015, 09:27:48 am
No but it was a Scots skipper that brought Nelson back to Blighty. I`ll bet THAT barrel of rum didn't suffer "shrinkage"
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Sub driver on May 01, 2015, 09:50:22 am
Arrow5.
Dont you mean it was a BRITISH skipper who brought Nelson back to Blighty  >:-o ..
AND the Scottish people dont want independance as they had a vote on it a while ago and rejected it.......or did  you miss that  %% O0
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 01, 2015, 11:09:31 am
The Scottish skipper was in the British Royal Navy , correct.  Shall we wait a while a see the result of the next referendum ?  But are we not in straying into the forbidden zone here on Mayhem....nae politics ?
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: derekwarner on May 01, 2015, 11:53:04 am
It's OK folks.......have just consulted my mate Professor Tulloch [retired Head of the English Language] from Flinders University in Adelaide.......it appears that neither of the references as provided by either arrow5 nor Sub diver relating to the Skipper of the vessel that returned the poor pickled Horatio...were necessarily incorrect  >:-o :-))

So whilst on the telephone to Professor Tulloch...he confirmed my thought that one Martin Winterkorn >>:-(.......[Chief of the Board of Management] of Volkswagen from Wolfsburg in Germania clearly needs a competent person to spell check their English worded advertisements O0

Talk about a pain <*<......of glass ....just read the words %%...... Derek
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 01, 2015, 12:01:39 pm
Not to be a PITA but which side were the Geraniums on at the Battle of Flushing (near Waterloo) ?
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: GAZOU on May 01, 2015, 03:47:30 pm

Code: [Select]
Qui voulez-vous parler comme le meurtrier Gazou, Wellington ou Napoléon?
NAPOLEON Well on
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on May 01, 2015, 04:55:17 pm
  Good stuff, but has anyone listened to the music? What do you think of it?
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 02, 2015, 02:13:26 am
I stand corrected Arrow5, British History it should have been, although in my day it was called English History, at least, at the school I attended.


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 02, 2015, 04:19:32 am
 :P
Scottish, English Welsh and Irish History, make up the History of the British Isles, surely.
 ok2 ;) %) :o


I'll get ma hat ma coat, and out under the door forthwith.
 :-))
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 02, 2015, 07:35:27 am
You prove my point Peter.     Vnkiwi, correct but it is written from a predominately English point of view.  How far north did the Roman Occupation go for example ? Who fought at the battle of Largs ?  What was the oldest regiment in the British army etc etc .  Have you read the words of the so called British national anthem ?   See where it mentions the Scots !  But as Jonty say "what about the music"...yes 1812 great with cannons and effects, some versions have too much choir or wrong kind of bangs.  Best national anthem France then Italy.  Best Beethoven, all of them. Best English song "My Love is Like a red red rose"  written by a Scot.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Klunk on May 02, 2015, 07:48:08 am
Said it before.
Will say it again
there is no place called Britain.  That is a conglomeration of countries. Scotland call themselves scottish, Wales are Welsh,  Ireland is irish but England is British that does not exist!
let's clear this up. Waterloo. The "british" army was mainly made up of the dregs of the prisons, largely supplemented by irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, Belgium, prussian and numerous other European countries.  Wellington achieved a truly European army!
It should, and never has been refered to as the British army, it is normally refered to as Wellingtons army.

I believe there were even french elements in the army!
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Klunk on May 02, 2015, 07:49:59 am
P's there was no United Germany as I remember. I think this happened a few years later when prussia merged with the rest of the German states.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: GAZOU on May 02, 2015, 08:14:38 am
Arrow5
Code: [Select]
Best national anthem french then Italy
Know you the words of the French hymn?

They are violent and warriors.
Few people recognize themselves in this singing and refuse to sing it.
Many people want to change it
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 02, 2015, 08:23:18 am
Arrow, I'm with you. Latest in a long line of Scotsmen, (even though I wasn't born there), with a little Runcorn thrown in for good measure. My be a Duncan, but wear the Robinson Tartan.
Once had a wee wall chart whick listed all the historical achievements through the industrial revolution, before and after as well, attributed to Scots. We've more than made our mark on history and our current civilization.
But remember, the Scots are only one tribe of that glorous land, with its history back into the sands of time.
 O0
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 02, 2015, 08:50:10 am
Non Mon Ami, I dont know the WORDS but I do know when and why the words were written, but the music IS grand.   The "British" national anthem has similar words against the Scottish people but unlike the Revolutionaries of France were written by the aristocratic ruling English "toffs" of a certain era, they seem to still exist in the 21st century >>:-(   I do like the German anthem when played as a hymn , in spite of being bombarded by propaganda during WW11 as a 5year old. :embarrassed:    So how about Jonty`s plea for a return to the MUSIC ??????
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 02, 2015, 10:27:57 am
Splendid idea, old chap.
Jonty's music it is
 :-X
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: dodes on May 02, 2015, 08:32:37 pm
+You are all arguing about the make up of Wellingtons British Army, I have read in a very good resource book, that it was about 45% Catholic Irish, 25% Scots, about 11% Welsh and the rest English. But the real star troopers were the Kings Germanic League and of course Bluchers Army. Also mention must be made of the Dutch and Belgium regiments that also valiantly did their bit that day.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 02, 2015, 08:47:17 pm
and the music was international too I`ll bet {-)
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: jaymac on May 02, 2015, 10:30:39 pm
[ Best English song "My Love is Like a red red rose"  written by a Scot.

Not to mention Schuberts Ave Maria music   inspired by Sir Walter Scotts poem Lady of the Lake Nowt to do with the church. Proper lyrics  sung partly by Celine Dion and also surprisingly full lyrics sung by Burl Ives
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 03, 2015, 04:42:48 am
Said it before.
Will say it again
there is no place called Britain.  That is a conglomeration of countries. Scotland call themselves scottish, Wales are Welsh,  Ireland is irish but England is British that does not exist!



Klunk, Great Britain is the official name given to two kingdoms, England and Scotland, and the principality of Wales, according to this website -
http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/britain/britain.htm (http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/britain/britain.htm)


According to the site, Britain refers only to England and Wales, but it's worth reading the information contained on the site. After you've read it you'll probably be more confused, I was %%


Arrow5, I'm all for the Scots, my great grandfather on my mother's mother's side came from Dunoon. He settled near Lismore in northern NSW in the mid 1800s and called his property Dunoon, which is now the name of the village that eventually developed nearby. I have been to Dunoon in Scotland, and it's a much bigger place than our local village, but the weather's not as good over there %) :-)  I love the bagpipes and rarely miss a chance to see our local pipe band perform, and I love it when Scotland (or anyone else, for that matter) beats England in Rugby {-)


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 03, 2015, 08:24:45 am
Peter, I have spent many a happy days at the Cowal Gathering in Dunoon,(and nights. :o) The sound of two and a half thousand pipes and drums  playing in revenge or in triumph after the World Championships the previous weekend would stir a heart of stone.  There have many fine pipe bands from Australia compete at both events.   I thought the official title of this country was The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I  think that that the people of Wales believe themselves to be a nation and not a principality. 
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Colin Bishop on May 03, 2015, 10:16:59 am
My passport is issued by The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Doesn't mention the Isle of Wight though....

Colin
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: jaymac on May 03, 2015, 10:21:38 am
Aye and if as a kid   trying to sleep you were kept awake  by the piper blasting away out side the pub next door every Friday Sat night :} . Took me along time to  accept  them later in life  even then  my troop were always billeted next to them and practice  could be wearisome despite they had  a number one in the top 20.I t was always a lift to march off to The Pipes but changing momentum from the Mil Band to the pipes on the hoof an art in itself.also the first regimental funeral at the graveside was the most chilling I have ever experienced .to have the piper just behind you playing the Flowers o the Forest  then quietly fade away into the distance  only to turn round and he was still in the same place Brrrrrr! never forgotten that and no electronics
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 03, 2015, 10:40:16 am
My passport is issued by The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Doesn't mention the Isle of Wight though....

Colin
Got its own parliament like Isle of Man ?    Bet you I can post a parcel from Inverness to Isle of Wight but cant get it returned because "doesn't post to the Highlands and Islands".  The Isle of Skye is connected to the mainland by a bridge , is the Isle of Wight ??????.  Roll on indepen....oh, never mind >:-o
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Klunk on May 03, 2015, 02:42:08 pm
Careful here, we will have the west country wanting independance!!! Oh they already do want it!!!!
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 04, 2015, 04:27:11 am
I did say it was confusing, but Great Britain includes England, Scotland and Wales. The UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Clear as mud really %)


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: GAZOU on May 04, 2015, 07:36:03 am
 ok2

Commonwealth ?
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 04, 2015, 08:35:01 am
A bit like that collection of independent states sometimes known as the Commonwealth of Australia
 :-))
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jerry C on May 04, 2015, 09:15:11 am
That's why they play three anthems in the six nations rugby matches when we play Ireland. GSTQ for England, and the anthems for the Republic and the North.
Muddier?
Jerry.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: jaymac on May 04, 2015, 09:59:46 am
Used to always play  the queen at the start of the show in the  forces cinema  at least in Germany they did.I was on leave  in the 60's went to see a  war film called ''The Victors'' blow me if the  Queen wasn't played at the start albeit in the film.Force of habit I automatically stood up ( the only one I might add ) then another and another joined like rows of Jack inThe box  quite a wee bit of confusement :}
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jerry C on May 04, 2015, 10:12:02 am
When I were a lad at flicks, they played t'anthem at th'end an everybody stood to attention. After a few years some people sloped off before the end so they moved it to the start. Now you don't hear it in a cinema at all. The world didn't end on its demise.
Jerry.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: derekwarner on May 04, 2015, 02:18:12 pm
I think young George and his new baby sister will reinforce Wellingtons victory for a few another century or so .......  O0

:-)) well done William & Kate.........

Derek....[but still a republican for OZ]

Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 04, 2015, 04:01:57 pm
Groan.... :-X
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 05, 2015, 04:49:03 am
That's why they play three anthems in the six nations rugby matches when we play Ireland. GSTQ for England, and the anthems for the Republic and the North.
Muddier?
Jerry.


Isn't it only the Republic of Ireland that plays in the Six Nations, not Northern Ireland which is part of the UK? The Six Nations are England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France and Italy, or am I wrong?


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jerry C on May 05, 2015, 08:35:49 am
Peter, it's one of the times that the North plays for the South. Ireland is an island including the north. The republics name is Eire.
Really muddy
Jerry.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on May 05, 2015, 10:08:23 am
  And that's before we start splitting hairs over the difference between a national anthem and a national song...
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 05, 2015, 11:36:26 am
Most in Aussie could sing you the national song, "Waltsing Matilda", (damn I wish I could spell), but would have no idea of the National Anthem.
 %)
 :-))
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Perkasaman2 on May 05, 2015, 01:14:35 pm
Everyone know's that the national anthem of Oostrtraaylia is the theme from 'Hawaii 5 O'.  %)  As for this clan tartan malarky it's a chunk of Victorian entrepreneurship  when Queen Vic made everything Scottish cool  8)  and romantic :kiss: .
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Arrow5 on May 05, 2015, 01:47:33 pm
There were local and clan tartans long before the Edinburgh tailors cashed-in on the German mob`s desire to blend in with the locals.  Sir Walter Scott had more to do with inventing  a lot of myths, he made a fortune out that too.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 07, 2015, 12:12:17 am
Peter, it's one of the times that the North plays for the South. Ireland is an island including the north. The republics name is Eire.
Really muddy
Jerry.


I am aware that the Republic's name is Eire, Jerry, I have been there, but I wasn't aware that both the north and the Republic played Rugby together.


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 07, 2015, 12:16:21 am
Most in Aussie could sing you the national song, "Waltzing Matilda", but would have no idea of the National Anthem.
 %)
 :-))


That's rubbish vnkiwi  >:-o , I have lived in Australia all my life and am yet to meet an Aussie you doesn't know at least the first verse of our National Anthem, Advance Australia Fair.

Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 07, 2015, 01:10:46 am
Sorry Peter, Just had to see if the fishing was any good.
Got one bite.
Enjoy your day
cheers
 :-))
ps
A lot of kiwis would have no idea of all the words in the NZ national anthem either.
 
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 08, 2015, 08:34:50 am
A lot of kiwis would have no idea of all the words in the NZ national anthem either.


Especially the first verse which is in the Maori language :-)


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: jaymac on May 08, 2015, 10:04:58 am
Why should the locals learn an Immigrants song :}
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 08, 2015, 10:08:38 am
The locals were immigrants themselves, just beat the last lot by 500 or 600 years
 {-)
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 09, 2015, 05:51:54 am
Why should the locals learn an Immigrants song :}


 In deference to the Maori people, the first verse is always sung in Maori, then repeated in English.


I was wondering though, what's all the discussion about NZ got to do with Wellington's victory at Waterloo? :o %%  Methinks we, and I include myself, may have drifted slightly off topic O0


Peter.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 09, 2015, 06:04:30 am
Peter,
how to hijack a thread, in one easy lesson.

 {-)
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on May 09, 2015, 06:17:56 am
While we are off thread Advance Australia Fair was known by all, O0 O0
 until they hijacked it and changed the words to be the National Anthem. <*< <*<
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: vnkiwi on May 09, 2015, 06:31:41 am
Polititions fiddling again
 ;)

Then never could leave well enough alone.
 >>:-(

Jeezz, ya know, can't even spell correct with a spell-checker.
It's a draughtie thing

 
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: Jonty on October 02, 2015, 10:50:55 am
Derek Warner wrote:
So whilst on the telephone to Professor Tulloch...he confirmed my thought that one Martin Winterkorn (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/tickedoff.gif)>:-(" title="Tickoff" class="smiley">.......[Chief of the Board of Management] of Volkswagen from Wolfsburg in Germania clearly needs a competent person to spell check their English worded advertisements (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/smiley.gif)

I think Herr Winterkorn has other things on his mind at present.
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: sparkey on October 02, 2015, 12:15:39 pm
 ;) As far as I am can remember Marshal Blucher with the Prussian army saved Wellingtons bacon,"give me night or give me Blucher"he was said to have uttered late in the afternoon,so it was a true international effort to beat bony and as Wellington said "a dam close run thing".....Ray ;)   
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: derekwarner on October 02, 2015, 02:14:20 pm

Derek Warner wrote:
So whilst on the telephone to Professor Tulloch...he confirmed my thought that one Martin Winterkorn (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/tickedoff.gif)>:-(" title="Tickoff" class="smiley">.......[Chief of the Board of Management] of Volkswagen from Wolfsburg in Germania clearly needs a competent person to spell check their English worded advertisements (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/smiley.gif)

I think Herr Winterkorn has other things on his mind at present.
_______________________________________________________

Really <*< ....I think Professor Tulloch is in Ireland today [02.10.2015] probably researching the recipe words of ancient brewed beer....and his vehicle of choice is a 20 year old Toyota Corolla  {-) ....

......& I was not the originator of the said text............

However reading the latest News.....Herr Winterkorn.........walked away with a 4.5M EURO severance payment........for a job well done? :-)) ......Derek  >>:-(
Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: essex2visuvesi on October 03, 2015, 01:13:53 am
Why should the locals learn an Immigrants song :}


What to Led Zep have to with it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApxnAr6pRt0

Title: Re: Wellington's Victory
Post by: reg on October 03, 2015, 11:08:01 am
I am British by birth and English by the grace of god !