?????i deliberately left that post open-ended. I should really have mentioned just how often one form of modelling can bleed over into something entirely different. A simple example is the huge amount of materiel, tools and "furnishings" made for the Dolls House fans. If you can match scales then the crossovers are pretty neat infinite. I don't know if all that much pertains to boating goes the other way, but I was always happy to utilise stuff designed for other purposes. Lego is another case in point....amazing what can be achieved with their modern gear sets. The list is endless. Bryan.
Yo Brian, you've lost me on this one!
I think rather than one or two simplistic issues, it's a combination of lots of factors, many of which have been highlighted in this thread, and which have played out over the past three to four decades.
What is clear is that what has been done to date isn't attracting newcomers to the hobby, so stop doing that, and either try something else, or enjoy what is left whilst it is there.
We supported the UTC Royal Navy Engineering Challenge 2018 at HMS Sultan in Gosport, back in the Spring. There were 85 teams tasked with building a boat, that would fit in a supplied box, that could recover floating and sunken objects, and deposit them on a jetty, all the while maneuvering around a fixed course.
I just wonder whether our art of finding new things to talk about is dying...…….
It's a UK problem and falls back to schools, colleges and universities as well as the media.
It's a UK problem and falls back to schools, colleges and universities as well as the media.
<snip>
no, it is global
....., but practical engineering is, we have a raft of bright young electrical design engineers where I work, but none of them have any practical skills.....
A boat kit today is pretty much the same as one produced 20 years ago. Without innovation the decline will continue, IMHO!
Ha! How very true! A little while ago, I gave a microphone stand to a young chap and asked him to shorthen in down and fold it up ready to pack away...... after 10 minutes, he was completely flummoxed and just gave up!
I must admit, I don't like this pervasive attitude of;
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to do it.
I don't want to ask and admit I don't know what to do.
I don't want to try and fail.
I don't want to try, fail and look foolish. >:-o
Just to brighten your spirits, I am a young modeller, well I am 21 now but been at it since about 14, have some 13 boats now and several other things including a 1:7 boat trailer and a 1:10 MAN V12 engine in progress. I think I have only posted about a few on here so don't forget there are lots of people beavering away in the background! I have also introduced my girlfriend into the hobby and she has completely restored and re-designed a Billings smit Rotterdam that was pretty rotten so hopefully us two will keep the hobby going! :-))
Interactions I have had with other modellers has never been great, I am a petrol race boater and used to go to OMRA meets to watch and used to find the guys would ignore me or be very reluctant to help despite being very interested and asking for help with my own model. Even scale boaters at my local park never seem interested in chatting to me and seem to see me as a bit of a hooligan despite having several non-hooligan scale boats! I tend to find the 'we're proper engineers' type people from the older generation look down their nose at us, some of us are still very capable of making and designing things.
Its one of those things - the ages of people in the hobby seem to be at two extremes which is a pair of generations that seem to struggle to understand each other, the old guys think we're all hooligans and the young guys think the old guys are grumpy!
I hope I haven't offended anyone! Just my take on things!
But hey, I really love it and will do my best to keep at it! :-)) :-))
(Mr plastic proclaiming to be one of the last proper engineers as an example) of the model boat fraternity.
One thing I will say to the likes of plastic who puts this down to some issue with the current generation, why is the rctank hobby booming as it is? Tanks in the main cost more.than RC boats, are just as complex mechanically and definitely more complex electronically, can have just as much detail etc and don't have the vast second hand RTR market model boats do. Also the average age of model tanker is probably 20-30 years less than the that of the model boater, same with model submariners. I think it's down to the way the hobbyking set up and the sometimes snobbishness (Mr plastic proclaiming to be one of the last proper engineers as an example) of the model boat fraternity.
It's responses like that which give
The hobby a bad name 😒
It's responses like that which give
The hobby a bad name 😒
I've just realised why Mayhem is much like any actual Model Boat Club. We have a bunch of GoG's who know it all, and get very uppity when a young newcomer arrives with their own ideas {-) Said newcomer will be ridiculed and shunned by the GoG's, who will continue on their merry way, totally oblivious <:(
A wider range of RTR models is required to hook the younger generation and get them bitten by the bug.
Model boating is deceptively expensive and less expensive avenues in the current financial climate are needed.
I apologise if it came across as snobbery - what I was trying (but obviously failed) to convey was it's actually a real disappointment that there's nowhere around training anyone for the younger generation who are the least able to travel long distances every day for their 'local' college.
What I was trying to say was that there's nowhere left training anyone in engineering - it's all shut down through lack of enough interest to keep them going. I was literally the last year as it all closed right behind me so anyone wishing to get into engineering finds their paths much more difficult or completely blocked - which puts most off.
All this does is make people more reluctant to spend money on something where they know they lack the basic skills and so the chance of it going in the loft or on ebay is elevated.
They are more likely to buy an RTR if they want an RC boat.
If they want something more involved, then really, the kit manufactures need to make their models a lot more straight forward to put together - but that would involve spending a lot more time and money in the development phase - which will crank the kit price up significantly without any guarantee that people will buy.
This opens a real niche in the market - currently filled by the Revell Flower Class - as the only large model that a basic Airfix modeller can progress into RC boats. It only requires the transfer of RC car building skills and you're up and running.
The large torpedo boat models (Italeri & Lindberg) are the next logical step - still using RC car thinking - it's a 'hop-up' with small risk to use bigger motors, bigger batteries, high current ecs, maybe water cooling and lights - and they'll have to solve a few more engineering issues.
Maybe their next step would be something more challenging...
I know a couple of people who are into modelling but not many my age. But you asked why, I told you a good reason and then look how you behave. Perhaps read what you have written about the younger generation and then ask yourself why they don't get involved. Anyway, that's my last piece on this topic, had enough of it!
As you have so much against us "old boys and our toys", ie boats, tom with your continual snipes over the months may I suggest that you stick to your tanks, go over to a tank forum where ever one is, and leave us mature model boaters to our outrageous and arrogant self proclaiming comments...…...it does our egos a power of good to be able to pontificate about what WE know best. {-) %% :} ;D
cheers, thanks and best wishes on your journey.
Don't agree. RTR models are five minute wonders, little effort goes into their procurement hence the satisfaction of owning and operating is much diminished.
Model boating can be as cheap or as expensive as you wish, other modelling sectors can be very expensive in comparison.
As I recall model boating was never a particularly youthful hobby. Most people engaged in it back in the 1970's and 80's when I was growing up, tended to be in their 30's or 40's as a minimum age, okay hardly old, but not the teenage or twentysomethings either. I think you would have to go back to the '50's or 60's to witness wide participation in hobbies like ours by that age bracket.
Have'nt you built that Conqueror yet Tom ;D
RTR can be both a potential 'hook' to model making, and direct access to RC model operating. Sometimes people who buy a model, RTR or kit, will loose interest. Back in the 80s people tried to get me into RC cars, I lost interest very quickly. Short run times, very difficult to control for a novice, but I could see how some people get hooked.
I don't think there is any one answer, there never is. But more choices for hobby entry (any hobby) has to be good. RTR is one route. ARTR is another. My first model, was ARTR Thunder Tiger Victoria. It took a weekend to build and rig, with household tools, which was not too intimidating. I also needed to source and buy RC gear (TX-RX set, and servos). I also got many long hours of sailing out of it.
It is easy to want to chase the 'Holy Grail' of our model genre, for me it was the Valdivia (out of my price range), or the Atlantis (beyond my skill levels as well as price range). There will always be room for cheap and cheerful not too difficult options, like the Club 500, Springers, Revell Flower Class, and Seaport Tug conversions. Perhaps there are some pointers here for manufacturers.
Sub or tank? I don't think I have either!!
There's no beauty in a straight line. :-))
Hi Neil, nice to see you're continuing your proud tradition of not reading what I'vewrote
think "written" is the word! %% %%
I read very little of what you have to say Tom. {-) {-) {-) {-) ..….seldom get past the first sentence, as we shall never agree on anything either says. %% {:-{ {:-{ :-))
This may be a bit vague but what is an engineer?
The reason for the question is that it's a title that's bandied about a lot and the title means a lot in different countries. For example, in Germany I understand that the role of engineer is defined and is distinct from the technician.
I honestly don't know but I know several, highly qualified, engineers who are in the finance game. They were told to follow that career in their schools :embarrassed:
There are some truly EXCELLENT YouTube channels out there of people making models of boats that are very sophisticated and hugely functional but in a different way. These boats might be made differently using more modern techniques but the joy that comes with it these days doesn't seem to be making 100% accurate models and sailing them with others stood around a pond.
I suspect with 3D printing, resin printers and all the arduino/pi/etc boards you can get these days you'll see more people getting in to the hobby of having radio controlled boats - but they might not be the scale models we're quite used to being the definition of the hobby.
This may be a bit vague but what is an engineer?
Quite common these days to find many technicians with engineering degrees, does that mean they're technicians or engineers?
It means they need to get a better job. :-))or hands on experience to step up to the better job
In North America a train driver is called an engineer {:-{
I am not sure of today, but 20 years ago the IEE and other institutes still had qualifications that would allow those with the older more traditional non-graduate background to move up through the ranks of engineers.
They do...
https://www.theiet.org/membership/profreg/ceng/
https://www.theiet.org/academics/accreditation/ (https://www.theiet.org/academics/accreditation/)
A bit off track now can we get back to the future of model boating.
Davew
When I was at Wings and Wheels a couple of weeks ago, I recognised someone from Broomfield Model boat Club, he told me that the club had been dissolved. I think that's the last of the North London model boat clubs, as Wood green went years ago. Broomfield boating pond is in a right old state at present, full of muck and bullets.
A bit off track now can we get back to the future of model boating.
Davew
Well Neil you can't win that post was supported with ''A good idea''and the guy that posted that previously posted
''In North America train drivers are called engineers''. Whilst in all the other sections some degree of order needs to be regarding the topic but good grief this is a Chit Chat section
Is there a link between cost of the model and the age of the modeller?
Do young people ever buy big, expensive models?
Do parents (GOGs) spend huge amounts on models as presents for young Johnny for him to get fed up & dump the debris in the loft?
Sorry Neil......unable to comment on this Australian Uncaged Shiraz, as it appears that the entire vintage has been shipped to the UK......not available in OZ & they don't know when or if it will be available >:-o
Not to worry, when next passing the grog shop I might get a 6 pack of Old Vine Shiraz....it's only $80.00 per bottle O0
I do think this wine would certainly be in line with the thread .... as contemplating the build or the future of model boating would certainly be accompanied with a glass or two of this nectar of the Gods.................. :P
Derek