Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: frogman3 on September 12, 2020, 10:28:27 am
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HI ALL NOW THE SET UP IM NOW ASKIN ABOUT IS SOMETHING IVE NEVER USED BEFORE as ive alway used 40meg SO PLEASE EXCSUSE ME OVER THIS well i think i have a problem on the R/C as im USEING A NEW 2.4 gig R/C an im now tryin to wire it all up
NOW my problem is the ESC must supply the power to the R/X an the R/X must not receive no more power than 6v but as i want to power my motors as i have four motors in my ship i want to use a 12v battery to power the ESC. So will the ESC automaticaly cut down the the power to the R/X to 6V an no more ? as it say in the R/C instruckions that any more power over 6v will damage the R/X SORRY TO HAVE TO ASK THIS STUPID QUESTION BUT I DONT WANT TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A EXSPENSIVE UNIT
HOPEING SOMEONE CAN HELP ME
chris
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If you Esc has a BEC output, and you use it, you will be safe.
Perhaps you had better tell us what Esc you will be using (preferably with a link).
PS The radio frequency makes no difference to this as 2.4ghz receivers basically require the same voltage as did 27, 35 and 40 Meg receivers.
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If you Esc has a BEC output, and you use it, you will be safe.
Perhaps you had better tell us what Esc you will be using (preferably with a link).
PS The radio frequency makes no difference to this as 2.4ghz receivers basically require the same voltage as did 27, 35 and 40 Meg receivers.
HI Tug Fanatic here in the linkpic is a shot of my NEW ESC front of box an in the next linkpic i''ll post a linkpic of its SPECIFCATIONS
chris
https://ibb.co/6bnPCv5
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There are 2 types of esc, one with a Battery Elimination Circuit, BEC and, one that doesnt have a BEC and is called an Opto esc. These may also be known by other names.
An esc with a BEC will normally step down your motor power battery to around 4.8v. More expensive ones give you the option of selecting around 4.8v upto around 8v.
If your esc is an Opto, you must power the Rx by a separate battery supply. Again, this is normally around 4.8v although more modern and expensive Rx's can run off upto 8v. This separate battery power must not be plugged into the BEC esc.
Your radio frequency has no impact on esc, only the voltage the Rx can handle is something that may need to be considered.
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HI Tug Fanatic here in the linkpic is a shot of my NEW ESC front of box an in the next linkpic i''ll post a linkpic of its SPECIFCATIONS
chris
https://ibb.co/6bnPCv5 (https://ibb.co/6bnPCv5)
This is an opto esc like I mentioned. You need a separate battery to run your Rx. This pack must not be connected to the esc.
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HI Tug Fanatic here in the linkpic is a shot of my NEW ESC front of box an in the next linkpic i''ll post a linkpic of its SPECIFCATIONS
chris
https://ibb.co/6bnPCv5 (https://ibb.co/6bnPCv5)
an the specifacations
https://ibb.co/mc4jQ86
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an the specifacations
https://ibb.co/mc4jQ86 (https://ibb.co/mc4jQ86)
There are two different ESC listed here.
The FS-AQP128 has a BEC 5v 1A (there will be separate connectors for the motor and BEC output circuits)
The FS-AQP280 does not have a BEC so you cannot power receivers and servos from the ESC. (the only output connectors will be for the motor)
Which ESC do you have?
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an the specifacations
https://ibb.co/mc4jQ86 (https://ibb.co/mc4jQ86)
A 280 amp esc is certainly powerful. Are you racing fast electric boats?
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A 280 amp esc is certainly powerful. Are you racing fast electric boats?
NO im not raceing fast eletric but a ship with 4 motors in a warship an its a fair size
HI [size=78%]justboatonic[/size][size=78%] IF you look at the specifatcations i think it says it has a BEC fitted in an not an opto ? an if thats the case i must not use a seperate batt as thats what its says in the R/C INSTRUCTIONS DUE I WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE R/X [/size] AN IHAVE POSTED WHICH ESC I HAVE GUYS
chris
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HI I HAVE AQP280 vershion I hope this helps
chris
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NO im not raceing fast eletric but a ship with 4 motors in a warship an its a fair size
HI [size=78%]justboatonic[/size][size=78%] IF you look at the specifatcations i think it says it has a BEC fitted in an not an opto ? an if thats the case i must not use a seperate batt as thats what its says in the R/C INSTRUCTIONS DUE I WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE R/X [/size] AN IHAVE POSTED WHICH ESC I HAVE GUYS
chris
Hi. If you have the Fusion Aquapower 280 as per the photo, the product description on the net states this is an Opto esc and you need a separate battery supply.
https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/fusion-aquapower-water-cooled-280a-brushed-marine-esc-electric-speed-controller-boat/
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Hi. If you have the Fusion Aquapower 280 as per the photo, the product description on the net states this is an Opto esc and you need a separate battery supply.
https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/fusion-aquapower-water-cooled-280a-brushed-marine-esc-electric-speed-controller-boat/ (https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/fusion-aquapower-water-cooled-280a-brushed-marine-esc-electric-speed-controller-boat/)
or a 12v to 5v converter something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7)
Note that I am not recommending this example as I have never used one but it shows the sort of thing that you need. You connect it direct to the battery supply (via a 3A fuse) and the 5v output to the receiver.
PS the spec on the box tells you that there is no BEC for your Esc.
Justboatonic
I rather suspect that frogman3, along with most others forum members, doesn't know the difference between an Opto Esc and any other.
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or a 12v to 5v converter something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7)
Note that I am not recommending this example as I have never used one but it shows the sort of thing that you need. You connect it direct to the battery supply (via a 3A fuse) and the 5v output to the receiver.
PS the spec on the box tells you that there is no BEC for your Esc.
Justboatonic
I rather suspect that frogman3, along with most others forum members, doesn't know the difference between an Opto Esc and any other.
HI Tug fantic you are right i dont know the difference between them as ive always used eletronize ESC MICRORPESSER on 40 meg but now that chap has retired ive got to look for a DIFFERENT ESC that will be powerfull enough to power 4 motors in my new ship an it must have a BEC an i will not use this FUSION ESC that i have got so any idea's of a new powerfull ESC with a BEC fitted an guys an thank you both for your help on this matter
Chris
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or a 12v to 5v converter something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Stepdown-to-5V-3A-15W-Car-Power-Supply-Module-UK/142407861263?hash=item21282b840f:g:JXQAAOSw5cNYcSC7)
Note that I am not recommending this example as I have never used one but it shows the sort of thing that you need. You connect it direct to the battery supply (via a 3A fuse) and the 5v output to the receiver.
PS the spec on the box tells you that there is no BEC for your Esc.
Justboatonic
I rather suspect that frogman3, along with most others forum members, doesn't know the difference between an Opto Esc and any other.
Yes, it is a good point and the beauty of this forum where we can share knowledge. That's why I thought best to give a brief explanation of the difference in my earlier post. Sometimes you also have to look at all the specs to find out if an esc is an Opto. The ad I linked only states the 280 is an opto esc at the very bottom so could easily be missed.
@Frogman, why not use this esc, it appears to have the power you need? All you have to do is plug a separate battery into your Rx which will probably only cost a tenner while a new comparable BEC esc would cost a lot more.
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HI Tug fantic you are right i dont know the difference between them as ive always used eletronize ESC MICRORPESSER on 40 meg but now that chap has retired ive got to look for a DIFFERENT ESC that will be powerfull enough to power 4 motors in my new ship an it must have a BEC an i will not use this FUSION ESC that i have got so any idea's of a new powerfull ESC with a BEC fitted an guys an thank you both for your help on this matter
Chris
Chris
Again we need more information.
Please tell us a little about the model that you are powering and the motors / propellers that you intend to use. Type eg battleship or high speed Motor Torpedo Boat etc, then size of model, then motors then propellers (make, model, no of blades, size) . You have previously stated 12v.
The fact that you are using 4 motors is largely irrelevant as what we need to do is estimate how much power in total they will use.
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Chris
Again we need more information.
Please tell us a little about the model that you are powering and the motors / propellers that you intend to use. Type eg battleship or high speed Motor Torpedo Boat etc, then size of model, then motors then propellers (make, model, no of blades, size) . You have previously stated 12v.
The fact that you are using 4 motors is largely irrelevant as what we need to do is estimate how much power in total they will use.
OK Tug Fanatic give me a little while to look at the motors an props an the ship im building is on here in the battleship thread BOATMANS HMS TIGER BUILD IN 1/72 SCALE
chris
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OK Tug Fanatic give me a little while to look at the motors an props an the ship im building is on here in the battleship thread BOATMANS HMS TIGER BUILD IN 1/72 SCALE
chris
AN sorry if this is confuseing as i put it on under BOATMAN but as ive been on here before several yrs ago i treid that name again but the site wont let me go on here as BOATMAN so i had to think up another name to put in an thats FROGMAN 3
chris
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If that is the 1913 HMS Tiger battlecruiser your model must be around 3m long and, if your underwater shape is scale, will probably weigh 50kg+ loaded WOW!!
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If that is the 1913 HMS Tiger battlecruiser your model must be around 3m long and, if your underwater shape is scale, will probably weigh 50kg+ loaded WOW!!
HI NO its not the 1913 tiger but the tiger that was converted into a helicopter carrier in the 1960's she is also a half battle cruiser an half helecopter carrier in 1/72 scale so yes she is big nr 8ft long
an here is the requested info on the motor's all 4 the same an the 5 bladed brass props in the link below
https://ibb.co/wsVN5Wj
chris
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HI NO its not the 1913 tiger but the tiger that was converted into a helicopter carrier in the 1960's she is also a half battle cruiser an half helecopter carrier in 1/72 scale so yes she is big nr 8ft long
an here is the requested info on the motor's all 4 the same an the 5 bladed brass props in the link below
https://ibb.co/wsVN5Wj (https://ibb.co/wsVN5Wj)
chris
I honestly think your best solution is to still use this esc and buy a separate Rx battery pack. You will have plenty of space in that model for the additional battery which will be a couple of inches long and an inch tall tops.
Even if you bought the AQ128 with a BEC, you'll be spending another 30 possibly plus P&P.
The only thing that concerns me is these esc's appear cheap compared to their amps ratings!
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I honestly think your best solution is to still use this esc and buy a separate Rx battery pack. You will have plenty of space in that model for the additional battery which will be a couple of inches long and an inch tall tops.
Even if you bought the AQ128 with a BEC, you'll be spending another 30 possibly plus P&P.
The only thing that concerns me is these esc's appear cheap compared to their amps ratings!
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quote]
HI [size=78%]justboatonic WELL in my R/C INSTRUCTIONS IT SAYS I MUST NOT USE A SEPERATE BATT AS IT WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE R/X SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS MY PC IS PLAYIN UP [/size]
[/size][size=78%]chris[/size]
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I don't know how to decode Johnson motor numbers but working on the basis of the propeller your existing esc is likely to be able to handle vastly more power than you will be using. That is a good place to be.
Justboatonic is making what I think to be a very good point. Why not try your existing esc before you give up on it. It should be perfectly OK.
As long as you don't both have a BEC AND a separate battery (which you won't as you don't have a BEC) connected to the receiver I cannot see how there can possibly be a problem.
I wait to see if anyone else can see a problem.
What is the radio?
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I don't know how to decode Johnson motor numbers but working on the basis of the propeller your existing esc is likely to be able to handle vastly more power than you will be using. That is a good place to be.
Justboatonic is making what I think to be a very good point. Why not try your existing esc before you give up on it. It should be perfectly OK.
As long as you don't both have a BEC AND a separate battery (which you won't as you don't have a BEC) connected to the receiver I cannot see how there can possibly be a problem.
I wait to see if anyone else can see a problem.
What is the radio?
[/quote
HI HERE is the R/C an its one made for boats an not aircraft an there are three pics to upload so before you answer let me do it as if not there will be a collishion goin onto the forum ok
1st pic the box
https://ibb.co/YRnbmyx
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https://ibb.co/gD8YDt5
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AN THE INSTRUCKIONS ON THE R/X IF YOU READ AT THE TOP LEFT an the bottom RIGHT YOU SHOULD SEE WHAT I MEAN again sorry about caps
https://ibb.co/9cT8K8w
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OK Tug Fanatic there are your asnwers in three pics ok see what ive said about instructions
chris
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I am reading that to mean that they expect you to use a BEC equipped ESC and that if you do then you shouldn't also connect a separate receiver battery.
No guarantees, just my opinion, so see what others think.
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I am reading that to mean that they expect you to use a BEC equipped ESC and that if you do then you shouldn't also connect a separate receiver battery.
No guarantees, just my opinion, so see what others think.
OK Tug -Fanatic so you dont really know ok on that i'll wait till i can find someone who does know cheers for your time
chris
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AN THE INSTRUCKIONS ON THE R/X IF YOU READ AT THE TOP LEFT an the bottom RIGHT YOU SHOULD SEE WHAT I MEAN again sorry about caps
https://ibb.co/9cT8K8w (https://ibb.co/9cT8K8w)
The radio's instructions are somewhat confusing! The German to English translation says
The receiver does not have a separate power supply and is supplied with power via the drive battery, which drives the motor. The BEC system of the electronic speed controller reduces the voltage of the drive battery for the receiver to a tolerable value. NiMH battery packs from 4.8 V to 6 V can be used. Batteries with higher voltage can damage the receiver and the servos.
However, the English version and diagram shows an esc connected to the Rx. Oddly, the English instructions say the BEC is in the Rx circuitry! Either this is a mistranslation in the instructions or it is a very unusual arrangement and one I havent come across before.
But, the same principle applies imho. If you have an OPTO esc such as the AQ280, you need to use a 4.8v to 6v Rx battery supply and can do that with this radio. What you should not do is use a BEC esc AND fit a separate Rx battery. It is one or the other.
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[size=0px]HI YES this is very confuseing an im not sure what to do so i think 'll leave it for now untill i find out for certain many thanks for your help an time [/size]
[/size][size=0px]all best [/size]
[/size][size=0px]chris [/size]
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IF the current handling numbers in the links are to be believed (and I don't, if it has the same size wire as the Electronize, it won't handle much more) the FS AQP128 should handle your motors OK. The built in BEC will not be happy with a 7 servo load. Either a discrete BEC rated for 3 or 5 Amps or a separate RX battery will be needed. It doesn't matter at all which receiver slot the receiver gets its power from. If all of the slots are in use, use a servo Y lead - one leg for the battery or separate BECto plug in, the other for whatever is being controlled by that channel, and disconnect the red (center) wire in the ESC lead.
But if the existing ESC is still a good one, why change? It will plug in fine* and respond to the control stick the same as with your previous radio.
*plastic of the plug might need trimming a bit, then just make sure its plugged in the right way round.
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I can not believe I have read this thread...
The advice that has been given is in my opinion is fully agreeable...
Reading the German instructions, yes it presumes you have a Built in power supply through the speed controller...
There is no BEC in the receiver..!
The translation into the English version does upset me some what...
There is a separate receiver battery input socket on the receiver.. this implying that a separate battery can be conected if no BEC.. as per any modern radio gear..
The choice is completely yours... take it or leave it...
Either use a speed controler with BEC or use a without BEC and use a separate receiver battery
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Hi Chris
I have just read through this entire post, but as far as I can see, no-one has proposed a solution to your problem in plain language. But in short, yes - what you want to do is certainly do-able. I use this method in all of my boats.
You wire the 12V as you would normally, through your fuse(s), isolator switch, and ESC to your motors.
Now, for your radio and servos, regardless of whether or not there is a BEC circuit on your ESC, I use a device known as a UBEC. This takes the 12V from your battery and converts it to 5V (or 6V selectable), and either 3A or 5A depending on which unit you buy. Even if your ESC does have a BEC circuit, use of the UBEC totally eliminates any possible issues due to incorrect connection, or possible internal failure within the ESC. There is no direct connection anywhere between your 12V and 5V systems. (A BEC circuit within an ESC usually has one common connection between the 12V and 5V circuits, making it very easy for an internal failure to occur, which would see 12V applied to you radio and receivers, with spectacular results.)
The 5V from your UBEC is connected directly into either the BATT socket of your receiver (if it has one), or into any spare socket (if it does not have a BATT input socket). Then plug in the RX cables to the ESCs and other servos, and away you go. This method also eliminates the issue of whether or not you need to disconnect one wire from the servo cable to the radio - so you never even need to think about that. It also eliminates any issues arising from language translation. It also eliminates any need for a separate battery for your receiver.
If my ESC or power board does have a BEC circuit, I do not use it for my radios - but I might use it for other functions such as to drive LED lighting.
Des.
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I think someone needs to speak to Chris -this is potentially a very easy situation in reality for most of us. It's just rediculus looking back through some of the the messages in this thread!
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I think someone needs to speak to Chris -this is potentially a very easy situation in reality for most of us. It's just rediculus looking back through some of the the messages in this thread!
I second that.... If I had lived closer I would have been round..
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Incredible. someone posts on a forum they need assistance and 2 others gave time and effort to do that. Then I see comments like 'it's just ridiculous looking back at some of the messages' and 'no one has used plain language'!
Perhaps the OP wanted a quick response, had no one local or wouldnt have wanted anyone 'popping around.'
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Incredible. someone posts on a forum they need assistance and 2 others gave time and effort to do that. Then I see comments like 'it's just ridiculous looking back at some of the messages' and 'no one has used plain language'!
Perhaps the OP wanted a quick response, had no one local or wouldnt have wanted anyone 'popping around.'
Its the usual story. 2 of us tried to help and then those that did absolutely nothing feel free to criticise us without offering anything of extra value. That's life.
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Its the usual story. 2 of us tried to help and then those that did absolutely nothing feel free to criticise us without offering anything of extra value. That's life.
HI GUYS please dont fall out over this as you all have been immenselly helpfull proberly be 50/50 on this lol :embarrassed: the wirein dio will be in the nxt linkpic as i just want to show that im gonna use this power distrubuion board to feed the R/X AS IT HAS A UBEC FITTED an please exscuse my spellin as ive had my ma in law clackin in my ear all morn OOOOHHHHH
https://ibb.co/86KFXfQ (https://ibb.co/86KFXfQ)
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AN THE rough diogram that i drew out this morn over my mother in laws is this right ?
https://ibb.co/jzXyzBc
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Yes - that circuit will work.
What is that power board that you are using?
Des
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Chris...
Personally, I would conect everything to the power distribution board, (including the esc) hence the name.. O0
Between the main battery supply and the power distribution board I would insert a switch..
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Yes - that circuit will work.
What is that power board that you are using?
Des
HI Des its a power distribution board, an its made exspressly for model
warships
https://ibb.co/BZ5K3QQ (https://ibb.co/BZ5K3QQ)
Chris
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Chris...
Personally, I would conect everything to the power distribution board, (including the esc) hence the name.. O0
Between the main battery supply and the power distribution board I would insert a switch..
HI Colin-d yes i wil do that then when i start every thing through the [size=78%] [/size][/size][size=78%]power distribution board[/size][/size][size=78%] ok an thank you for info an yes i always fit a switch between the batt an the ESC so it can be turned off anyway i think im getting there an there is no hurry i will try all this after i have fitted in the portholes in the hulls as the hulls are already laid out to do this [/size]
[/size][size=78%]many thanks to you [/size]
[/size][size=78%]chris [/size]
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Chris...
..................Between the main battery supply and the power distribution board I would insert a switch..
...................and a fuse between the esc and each motor that is more than the running current but less than the rating of the esc and less than the stall current of the motor. If one blows you still have drive and are not damaging anything. Very useful if weed etc gets wrapped around a prop.
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...................and a fuse between the esc and each motor that is more than the running current but less than the rating of the esc and less than the stall current of the motor. If one blows you still have drive and are not damaging anything. Very useful if weed etc gets wrapped around a prop.
HI Tug Fanatic so its 4 fuses fitted in line from the ESC on each motor say 15 amp fuses ? thank you for your help cheers an ive just got to hope im still online to look at all these answers to my questions as its now comin up to renew my contract with my I.S.P.
all best to you
chris
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HI Tug Fanatic so its 4 fuses fitted in line from the ESC on each motor say 15 amp fuses ? thank you for your help cheers an ive just got to hope im still online to look at all these answers to my questions as its now comin up to renew my contract with my I.S.P.
all best to you
chris
Yes a separate fuse for each motor.
I cannot give you a figure for the fuse but I always put a wattmeter on a motor & see exactly what it is doing. Failing that then yes start with a 15A fuse on one motor & see if you blow it. If you don't then it is big enough but I would suggest stalling the motor to make sure that it blows as with 4 motors connected in parallel you could have one stalled & not know!
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Yes a separate fuse for each motor.
I cannot give you a figure for the fuse but I always put a wattmeter on a motor & see exactly what it is doing. Failing that then yes start with a 15A fuse on one motor & see if you blow it. If you don't then it is big enough but I would suggest stalling the motor to make sure that it blows as with 4 motors connected in parallel you could have one stalled & not know!
HI again Tug Fanatic many thanks for your time an info an yes this is what i hope to do but its a little way in the future yet as im still strugglein to finish off these hulls then all the wirein can go into the hulls. But i feel as though im getting some where now compared to a week ago ive thanks to you guys have found out a lot more but i will be very nervous wirein up this ESC to the R/C
as its given me a headacke an stress but a little bit of modeling like fittin in the portholes in the hulls will help me calm down an then i think i will be ready to tackle it
anyway again many thanks for your help
chris
chris