Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Modelling tools => Topic started by: tizdaz on December 14, 2021, 04:22:14 pm
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Hi guys,
What's a good solid way to put the waterline on the hull to mark where to mask etc.
My hull will be 3 colours so I'm going to need to put 2 waterlines, my hull is large (1/12 scale - 1.8m TID).
I know we can buy a tool for this but cheapest i found was around £40-50!! but I've heard of people making there own jigs that holds a pencil etc? any info much appreciated!
:)
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Re: "Envoy class HMRT Enigma" is a thread from Radiojoe in 2014, so if you do a search for it there's a photo of one he made.
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Yes, make your own jig. :}
This one was made using the frame cut outs.
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that looks simple enough! :) Thanks buddy
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Squires Model & Craft tools used to do one http://www.squirestools.com/home.htm
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Hi,
The recent trend is to use a laser level or mini "dumpy" laser to mark a waterline though I've never seen a post how it works or the advantage over the simple "pencil" on a block method (I have such a laser which I used for work but can't see how to use it for models as it doesn't remove the need for marking up). That said, on very large models maybe it's more practical to get a reference?
The old techniques used to be:
- Place in the bath and ballast correctly, sprinkle talc and let the water out. As the WL should normally always be above to account for real-life, measure a uniform distance above when applying markings or masking
- Pencil (or whatever) on block and move it around, or the model on a flat base
- Just measuring offset from a known point enough to string up a line of tape
...There's not much need to complicate it. MK 1 eyeball Always applies when applying the line from front to aft and from side to side. I used pencils on blocks for 30 years -I guess that's been used in a form for 300 years or more.
Since we can post .stl files now, if you feel a reluctance to tape or glue a pencil to a block, feel free to use my waterline marker if you know someone with a printer and I used it a couple of times absolutely OK. It uses about 50p of materials (excluding a couple of M3 or M4 bolts and nuts plus the pencil!) but design time is obviously the expensive part so your price seems OK to me for a retail item, it does no better than a pencil on a wooden block as in the modelling books. My laser level cost me £30 without batteries if you prefer that for a bigger hull, I've never tried to use it on a model.
...I know you're splitting posts up rather than following your build thread but please bear in mind your other question regarding painting sequence it's worth bearing in mind curvature of the parts and masking off also. For a good result use thin tape (such as Tamiya) and pay attention whether it's best to mask upwards or downwards according to the curvature. Where possible apply a thin or dry coat of the same base colour over the tape edge to seal it and let it try before applying the next colour. This is basic model painting stuff you can check on youtube etc.
Hope it helps,
Rich
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Picture attachment won't work which is unusual but not the first time I've had this in the last few weeks for other reasons, the usual file compression methods won't reduce file size. See if this works...
...Nope (bring back MS picture manager -it just worked!!!).
Hmm, try again (imported to powerpoint, re-saved as a .jpeg), bingo:
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I haven't seen it mentioned if you're going to make a "pencil holder" type but beware of gluing the pencil in place. You'll find that the stern can be a "b****r to mark unless the pencil is pointing uppishly(?), otherwise either it can either slip, or the pencil can stray off the intended line. Obviously, if the hull is upside down, the pencil will point downishly(?) %%
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Hi,
The recent trend is to use a laser level or mini "dumpy" laser to mark a waterline though I've never seen a post how it works or the advantage over the simple "pencil" on a block method (I have such a laser which I used for work but can't see how to use it for models as it doesn't remove the need for marking up). That said, on very large models maybe it's more practical to get a reference?
The old techniques used to be:
- Place in the bath and ballast correctly, sprinkle talc and let the water out. As the WL should normally always be above to account for real-life, measure a uniform distance above when applying markings or masking
- Pencil (or whatever) on block and move it around, or the model on a flat base
- Just measuring offset from a known point enough to string up a line of tape
...There's not much need to complicate it. MK 1 eyeball Always applies when applying the line from front to aft and from side to side. I used pencils on blocks for 30 years -I guess that's been used in a form for 300 years or more.
Since we can post .stl files now, if you feel a reluctance to tape or glue a pencil to a block, feel free to use my waterline marker if you know someone with a printer and I used it a couple of times absolutely OK. It uses about 50p of materials (excluding a couple of M3 or M4 bolts and nuts plus the pencil!) but design time is obviously the expensive part so your price seems OK to me for a retail item, it does no better than a pencil on a wooden block as in the modelling books. My laser level cost me £30 without batteries if you prefer that for a bigger hull, I've never tried to use it on a model.
...I know you're splitting posts up rather than following your build thread but please bear in mind your other question regarding painting sequence it's worth bearing in mind curvature of the parts and masking off also. For a good result use thin tape (such as Tamiya) and pay attention whether it's best to mask upwards or downwards according to the curvature. Where possible apply a thin or dry coat of the same base colour over the tape edge to seal it and let it try before applying the next colour. This is basic model painting stuff you can check on youtube etc.
Hope it helps,
Rich
Hi Rich,
Yeh i have a laser level, but its not brilliant but that's probably because its a pretty cheap one i picked up few years ago! So im going to go down the route of using the pencil/holder as its pretty much fool proof, thanks for the tip regarding a thin layer of previous colour over the masking to seal it before next colour! ... I've never done this over the years when spraying my bodyshells, but then we spray them from the inside etc so its a different method, spraying boat hulls is a whole new ball game to me! The bath tub method is definitely a no go for me as i don't have a bath tub that size!
Regarding your device, what's the max height it can reach? as my 2 waterlines need to be around 10cm & 15cm?
Thanks buddy
I haven't seen it mentioned if you're going to make a "pencil holder" type but beware of gluing the pencil in place. You'll find that the stern can be a "b****r to mark unless the pencil is pointing uppishly(?), otherwise either it can either slip, or the pencil can stray off the intended line. Obviously, if the hull is upside down, the pencil will point downishly(?) %%
Thanks for heads up! ..yup i was wondering about this section as it does look like it maybe trial & error til i get it just right!! :D
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"Regarding your device, what's the max height it can reach? as my 2 waterlines need to be around 10cm & 15cm?"
It's all a matter of "wobble". Whether it's a laser line or a pencil on a stick it's got to stay stable along the length you're marking, so it doesn't matter whether it's wedged up or on a pile of books :-))
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It might be worth looking at Cornwall Model Boats site. They advertise two markers at between £10-11. I bought an Amati marker which works fine.
Regards
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How do people do this? I was thinking of making some kind of height gauge, but any suggestions are most welcome
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I eventually bought an Amati tool do do the job but I have used wood blocks anf tins of the appropriate size. The tool is infinitely adjustable and saves me searcing hte workshop for something suitable.
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hi there
I made a gauge up from scap pieces of plywood and use a pencil clamped to the gauge to mark the waterline.
Thing to remember is - mark your bow and stern heights correctly and make sure they are levelled off (check this on a flat surface) and then draw your line around the hull.
I have also, in the past, read where people have filled a bath full of cold water and then sprinkle talcum power on top of the surface of the water and then place the hull in the water so that it is at the correct depth and when removing the hull from the bath water, the talcum power leaves a line around the hull at the correct level. I haven't tried this idea myself, but, there are also numerous more methods out there.
No doubt someone else will come on here with an ingenious one.
Here are a couple of pics.
1, Of the gauge I made
2. The hull which I have previously marked off with this gauge and masking tape - and - it is now ready to be painted.
John
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John's method is simple,cheap and has always worked for me.
Colin
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I've actually used the 'talcum powder in the bath' method. It was a tip from the late, great Vic Smeed in a copy of Model Boats magazine way back in the last century. It is especially suitable for complex hull shapes, and produces a very accurate result. The only drawback being, of course, that you have to clean the bath before one's 'significant other' returns home!
Cheers,
Mike
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I use a self levelling laser level on a camera tripod by the side of the workbench.
1. Mark the waterline at either end of the hull.
2. Place short spirit level across the beam for port/starboard accuracy.
3. Adjust height of tripod/laser to line up with front and rear waterline marks.
4. Trace along laser line with soft pencil for an almost perfect result.
Obviously not the cheapest option, but I already had the laser in my household toolkit and the tripod for my photography.
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Thanks for the replies. It’s been so long since I did this that my mind just went blank! Tomorrow I will knock something up out of scrap wood.
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Level the hull on nice flat surface.
Then build yourself a T-stand and glue the pencil where you want it to meet your hull.
:-)
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Hi Charlie;
I post here my case of drawing a line of 1/96 HMS Fencer for your reference.To get the best result,the following procedures and sequence were carried out seriously and done successfully in one time. :-))
1;I used a dining table as the working base after checking the surface.
2;I used this tool that I bought for RC planes,however, home-made tool will do sufficiently.
3/4;I set the hull seriously to get her horizontally and vertically sat using as many level gauges as I had and fixed her properly.
5;I measured the height.
6/7/8;Started to draw a line to the stern,and successfully met the line at the stern with a line of opposite side, nearly "just meet !! " {-) {-) :-)) :-))
Wishing a very good result in your boat as well!! :-))
Kiyo
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So i knocked this up this morning. This should do the job :-))
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One thing to consider is that often waterlines are not flat but have a slight rise at the bow and stern - makes it even more fun!
Geoff
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Yes Geoff is right that waterlines are not always quite level. A slight rise at the bow is common as otherwise you can get an optical illusion that it is curving downwards slightly as the hull narrows.
Colin
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seek and ye shall find :-) I knew I had an image of my water line gauge in action :-)
it actually comes from my build of the fishing vessel Frederick Spashett - and here is a shot of her on the water. If you notice how the water line isn't parallel to the keel and you will see this in the drawing.
Aye
John
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Hi appreciate all the above, I love the talcum powder idea. I use a coloured felt tip pen which only has to touch to leave a line. I use the type that rub off afterwards with a damp cloth.
Regards
Roy
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It might be worth looking at Cornwall Model Boats site. They advertise two markers at between £10-11. I bought an Amati marker which works fine.
Regards
this is the one i went with, seems very solid & long enough to do my 2 waterlines, not used it yet as not got around to painting the hull...but will be shortly!! :)
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Hi One and All
I think I must have used most of the ways to put a water line onto our models,
1 Mark 1 eyeball
2 Talcum powder on the water
3 Pencil on a block/manufactured pencil marker
4 Chalk line
5 Laser
The only ones that has not be confined to the back of the workshop is the mark one eyeball - talcum powder & time, using all three I now get a water line that I am happy with.
The moral of my story is If it works for you it may not work for others, so just do what you think is right for you.
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I use a laser level on a camera stand.
samples:
Amazon.com : laser level (https://www.amazon.com/laser-level/s?k=laser+level)
Duane
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Another tip I've found very helpful (from Brian King I think) - when you mask the waterline, first mask to the wrong side of the line. Then play with the tape line (remove, reapply etc) until you're happy it's spot on. Finally apply your masking tape on the correct side, using the existing tape as a guide, and then remove the 'guide' tape.
The advantage of this is that it's much easier to lay tape accurately against the tape edge than a pencil line, and also you're using a fresh piece of tape to get a sharper edge.
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Sometimes it may be that the water line mark does not remain at water level. On the Chimaera the line rises towards the bow , probably purely for aesthetic reasons so pencils on blocks of wood and lasers won't work. I find it best to mark 3 or 4 datum points where the line lays on the hull and then lay a flexible batten through the points and draw with a pencil.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/21/6F787465-0A0F-4EC8-A0AF-6E4FEF9B5879_1_201_a.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/fEd5R)
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Agreed - this is often the case on RN ships in WW2, the waterline (boot topping) rises slightly at the bow. Sometimes if you have the line dead straight it looks like it is bending downwards at the bow, I guess this is an optical illusion due to the hull contour.
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Hi Tizdaz
Bought this one from Hobbies https://www.hobbies.co.uk/hobbyzone-waterline-marker Just £7.95 + P & P
(https://i.ibb.co/194K1g3/IMG-20220822-162616-2.jpg)
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Saw this on Facebook ....
(https://i.ibb.co/PgHs6gp/414673266-6755608674550511-3949522263555935581-n.jpg)