Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: zooma on February 04, 2022, 08:16:23 pm
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As a confirmed LesRo Rapier fan, I have been hoping to find a pocked sized version that could live more easily in the car so that if we should happen to stumble across a suitable stretch of water when out for a drive in the car with my wife ... I would just happen to have a classic model powerboat in the boot that I could take out and use - just to break the journey up a little %)
I am sure this thoughtful act would be greatly appreciated !
I have been hoping (without success) to find a Stiletto to restore for some months now, but nothing has come my way.
However, there could well be some light at the end of this tunnel as my friend Will has found (and bought) a Stiletto kit on eBay ...(why is it that everybody else spots these things and I seldom do?)........ but it was not exactly what he expected.
It turns out that his "kit" had already been built once and then taken apart and put back in the box!
Some of the parts have "lost their newness" and the keel has been snapped and part of it is missing.
When the Arrow and Stiletto were both current LesRo kits, my guess is that they both shared the same hulls - just like their bigger brothers Rapier and Javelin did?
Now as it happens, when I first returned to this hobby after so many years of absence, I treated myself to a new Arrow kit as I thought it would be a nice easy way to get myself reacclimatised - but that was just before "lock-down" and the discovery of a discarded Rapier that needed some TLC......so the Arrow kit never got started as other restorations followed that appealed to me more that starting to assemble this new kit!
Although my new Arrow kit is of the current re-engineered type (and is not an original LesRo kit) I am hoping that the shape has not strayed too far away from the original as Will is sending me his Stiletto "kit" and I am hoping to be able to make a new keel for him (using the Arrow keel for shape reference) - and replace any other parts that may be missing or broken with parts cut from nice new wood.
The idea is that I also make a copy of these parts for myself so that we will both be able to build a Stiletto each.
What could go wrong?........... :embarrassed:
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I have a part-built modern (SLEC) Arrow as I always fancied the Lesro kit. Going together fairly easily, keep getting held up by waiting for hardware after changing my mind. Should a fun boat which will be easy to slip into a corner of the car when we go out.
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Our local postman has just delivered a long narrow parcel - and as I am not expecting anything else of that size or shape - I think Wills Stiletto "kit" of parts has just arrived!
Unfortunately neither of us has a Stiletto plan (or building instructions) so if anyone has a copy that they could bare to part with I would be very happy to pay a fair price for it as it would be a helpful reference that will result in two Stiletto power boats being added to the classic power boats working register :-))
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Tempting fate?
Well sometimes even the best laid plans can go wrong, and this project has got off to a very "challenging" start.
When I asked "what could go wrong?........ :embarrassed: " in my opening paragraph, I never actually thought that anything would go wrong - but the box of wooden parts that I have just opened has cabin sides for a Sea Commander inside it (!) and not for a Stiletto. <:(
I am not too sure about some of the other parts either - but if anyone has a Stiletto plan to sell or copy I am sure it would provide all the help we need as I can cut the cabin sides and the keel from the kit plans and it would also help me to identify the other "assorted parts" to see what fits and what needs a template to be made.
Nothing is impossible - but some projects may take a little longer than the original plans would suggest that they should :-))
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So, as Bob said, we thought that with what I had bought in a Lesro Stiletto box would indeed help with some templates, sides, bulkheads, cabin roof, wheelhouse roof, fore deck to start with.
I had previously sent Bob some pictures of what I had received, but neither of us noticed that the cabin sides were far too rounded/not angular enough to be a Stiletto. I have a built Sea Commander in the same room as the 3 Lesro kits I bought, yet did I clock the similarity of the cabin sides to the Sea Commander, nope!! %)
Anyway, as Bob says, the search is now on, for either a set of Stiletto plans, a rough or damaged Stiletto or even an inbuilt one.
So if anyone has any suggestions or leads that could help us out, please get in touch.
Will
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Stiletto Parts (supposedly)
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Stiletto parts #2
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Sorry, wrong picture and don't know how to delete posts.
Don't worry Will,
Most of us have never seen any of the genuine LesRo kit boxes for the Stiletto, Javelin and Rapier - and you have just shown us all three :-))
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Stiletto Parts (supposedly)
Not a problem - I am going to build a Sea Commander instead {-)
..........but I am sure a plan for the Stiletto will turn up sometime, and when it does we can get going again and add two more of these elusive little powerboats to the active register. :-))
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Not a problem - I am going to build a Sea Commander instead {-)
..........but I am sure a plan for the Stiletto will turn up sometime, and when it does we can get going again and add two more of these elusive little powerboats to the active register. :-))
Indeed Bob. I will continue searching for a Stiletto plan. Someone must have one that they could get copied for us if they don't want to part with it. I am happy to pay any printing costs (within reason).
Will
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I shall keep my eyes open for some plans etc. I quite like the idea of a mini Rapier. As you will l know I am not very prolific at boat building after a brief flurry in lockdown I don’t have the time right now. All the best in your quest!
Ps at least you have some original boxes!
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I shall keep my eyes open for some plans etc. I quite like the idea of a mini Rapier. As you will l know I am not very prolific at boat building after a brief flurry in lockdown I don’t have the time right now. All the best in your quest!
Ps at least you have some original boxes!
Thanks Stuw,
Nice to hear from you - its Will that has that lovely collection of original boxes - sadly I don't have any!
If we can find some plans and parts templates we would be more than happy to share them with you after we have checked to make sure everything fits together OK.
I will be cutting two sets of parts for Will and myself, so cutting another set for you would not be a problem - or we could pass the templates on to you as you may prefer to whittle your own set {-)
If I could get the cabin side parts I may be able to work the rest out for myself with the Arrow kit parts that I already have?
Stay safe,
Bob.
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Option B.
If we can find a Stiletto for sale - I am sure we could "reverse engineer" it .
Any condition from a wreck to a pristine example would be considered. O0
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I shall keep my eyes open for some plans etc. I quite like the idea of a mini Rapier. As you will l know I am not very prolific at boat building after a brief flurry in lockdown I don’t have the time right now. All the best in your quest!
Ps at least you have some original boxes!
Thank you Stuw, much appreciated.
Someone out there must have a set that they'd either let go, or would be prepared to have copied or scanned to PDF if they don't want to let go of the originals.
Yes, to have the boxes is quite cool, even if the stiletto box has seen better days.
Will
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Ok guys I’ve done some internet trawling and apart from finding your past requests for plans etc (sadly unanswered) I have found this YouTube clip of a build from kit which may provide some clues if you can extract from stills the scale of parts?
My quest isn’t over yet but thought I would share in case.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMcQES-17c (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMcQES-17c)
Also some photos on this mayhem thread amongst others:
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=59914.0 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=59914.0)
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Thanks Stuw - I will take a good look at that info. :-))
I think Will has found a plan - but I am still hoping to avoid a lot of measuring by finding some templates to cut the bulkhead from. %)
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The best laid plans......with tasteful slippers to boot!
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Hi Tony
Any change of a PDF copy of the plan in the future, please???
It's one on my bucket list !!!
Harry
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Hi Harry and others. Please note that I'm only posting the pics for Bob so I'm no authority on nuthin'!
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Hi Harry and others. Please note that I'm only posting the pics for Bob so I'm no authority on nuthin'!
.......and very good at it you are too ! :-))
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The best laid plans......with tasteful slippers to boot!
Could you send me the original photo please Tony, see if I can do something with it .... [email protected]
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The best laid plans......with tasteful slippers to boot!
Ha - not my plans (or my slippers), but one that Will has tracked down.......but I think he may have found an even better copy now?
I had better get on with assembling those Stiletto/Sea Commander parts {-) as it looks like we are getting closer to cutting the parts for a couple of "real" Stiletto's for myself and Will.
If we should happen to stumble across some bulkhead templates we could be in production even sooner :-))
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Problem with photos Martin is that when trying to convert to jpegs is keystone effect and also corners are bleached out. Scanning is the answer.
Regards Ian.
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Problem with photos Martin is that when trying to convert to jpegs is keystone effect and also corners are bleached out. Scanning is the answer.
Regards Ian.
Agreed / True .... but if we can establish a datum or two and you can resize proportionally ..... :-)
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As Bob rightly says, I have managed to get hold of a clearer copy of a Stiletto plan.
My plan is to get it both copied and scanned to a PDF file, then I can get a copy of the plan to Bob so that he can start sussing things out, that's beyond my capabilities at present.
The issue that I'm currently having is my working day and commute don't allow me to get to a printers in the week. I will try on the next weekend that i'm off.
I will get this sorted asap though.
It would still be good if we could get hold of some templates though, it would make making a complete parts count much quicker and easier.
Will
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You have come up trumps with that nice clean set of plans Will :-))
If we can find a set of drawings or templates for the 4 bulkheads and the transom it would make a nice easy build for us.
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I'm still searching Bob, I'm not giving up yet.
Fingers crossed we can find a set. As you said, it will make the build much easier and quicker.
Will
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Great plan but as you say no real info on the bulkheads as they were supplied.
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Stuw, from what I've learned and as you say, templates aren't/weren't included. But, I'm still hoping that someone out there, whilst building a Stiletto, took the time to draw templates from the parts before building.
I know it's a long shot, but you never know.
Will
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What is the relationship between the Stiletto and the Arrow? I seem to remember that Lesro made two pairs of models with either a 'powerboat' type superstructure or a 'cruiser' type, but using the same hulls (I think) for them in two different sizes. I may be wrong as this is based on looking at the adverts in Model Boats rather than anything more precise.
I have a SLEC Arrow and drew around the bulkheads before starting the kit, I can try to scan them if it is of any help. I don't know whether there are any differences between the SLEC kit and the original Lesro, though - never quite got around to buying one before they disappeared.
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Hi Dave
Based on the info so far the 38and 1/2" Rapier( cabin cruiser) used the same hull as the Javelin( Off Shore Racer).
They made a smaller version of these at 25 and3/4" Stiletto(cabin cruiser) and the Arrow(Off Shore Racer).
The SLEC Arrow would be more accurate in correctly cutout parts because of laser cutting.
But a bit difference in internal construction.
Scanning the Arrow bulkheads as PDF would be very, very helpful.
Also can be modified back to match up with the old plans.
Harry
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I'll see what I can do - busy today & this evening, but should get it done on the weekend. I am a bit limited in that I have only an A4 scanner.
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As far as the project to build a pair of Stiletto models with Will goes, now that Will has found a nice clean plan for me to work from, I can cut the cabin sides directly from the plan's side elevation.
The Arrow kit will give us all the hull information we need (albeit a SLEC Arrow and not a LesRo original), so although it may not share the same component shapes, it would be close enough to graft the two together and only leave the cabin roof curvatures and shapes to form by eye.
Will already has a Stiletto so he could probably draw around the roof ends to give us the correct curvature for the formers and the tops to give us the overall shape so that would take care of that too.
A set of LesRo templates would obviously be a very nice way to make a pair of authentic replica Stiletto models (using the original makers construction), but mixing the details that we already have from my new Arrow kit, Will's Stiletto model, and the plan that he has found, we should be able to make a pair of models that will "look the part" - even if they lack the original manufacturers construction.
....so unless we happen to find a set of original templates (copies of original kit parts), an unwanted Stiletto that we can buy to take apart (and restore again afterwards) - we now have enough information to make a pair of mongrel replicas by converting the Arrow kit into a Stiletto look alike. :-))
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Do you already have the bulkheads for the Arrow sorted out? I can scan them if they are still needed, but it sounds like you have the same (SLEC Arrow) kit as I do.
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Do you already have the bulkheads for the Arrow sorted out? I can scan them if they are still needed, but it sounds like you have the same (SLEC Arrow) kit as I do.
Hi Dave,
When I started this thread I did mention that I already had a new Arrow kit, so we can use that for any hull references that we need. Now that Will has also found a nice clean plan for me to use, (and he already has a Stiletto that he can provide the roof details from) I think we have everything we need to make a mongrel Arrow/Stiletto that will look the part!
I need to get on with building the Sea Commander that came as a "default set of Stiletto parts" (I cannot resist restoring or saving classic model power boats) and this will give Will plenty of time to copy the Stiletto roof details to give me all the info I need.
Hopefully there will be a pair of StillArrow's (Arrowetta's?) running around by the end of the year! :-))
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Sorry, I must have missed the first post (or forgotten it). My Arrow has been keel/frames/stringers for about 2 years now. I lost some confidence in it when I added the keel doublers, picked it up and the keel broke in two. I glued it together, and the stringers and skins should hold it if and when I finish it. I'll add a bit of glass ribbon along the keel for extra strength when I get that far.
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Sorry, I must have missed the first post (or forgotten it). My Arrow has been keel/frames/stringers for about 2 years now. I lost some confidence in it when I added the keel doublers, picked it up and the keel broke in two. I glued it together, and the stringers and skins should hold it if and when I finish it. I'll add a bit of glass ribbon along the keel for extra strength when I get that far.
Funny you should mention that .......I made a new keel for the Sea Commander and had the doublers fitted and when I picked it up - and the rear end snapped-off !
The keel assembly is very weak at the point where the prop shaft slot is cut. I had already opened the slot out to make a good fit for the shaft (although the shaft was not fitted at the time) and when I cut away the doubler to fit the rearmost bulkhead it weakened it still further and the end fell off!
I glued the slim remains of the keel back together and added a 4mm ply top cover to keep it strong until I add the stringers. When the skins are eventually fitted it will be good and strong.
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Glad to know I'm not the only one!
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Glad to know I'm not the only one!
I think if the prop shaft had been bonded in it would not have happened............"never too old to learn" :-))
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I prefer to wait until I'm ready to start the motor installation before glueing the prop shaft in. The prop shaft cut out in the keel is a weak point, though - I wonder how many have managed to do the same as us over the years.
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Hi All
In an interesting look at some of the American model boats.
From Bulkhead 5 on the Sea Commander(for example) to keel would stop and
change to two wide stringers angle butted together for the rudder and prop tubes to go thru.
The rear of the prop tube support is a glued add on.
Canabus
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I prefer to wait until I'm ready to start the motor installation before glueing the prop shaft in. The prop shaft cut out in the keel is a weak point, though - I wonder how many have managed to do the same as us over the years.
I always determine the prop shaft angle and secure it in the keel first before aligning the engine, mount, and coupling, so I could (should?) have bonded the prop shaft into the keel to strengthen it before "swinging it around" <:(
Having everything in the drive train "loose"and trying to secure it all accurately at the same time does not work for me.
I prefer to align the motor after it is fixed on its mount with a "solid" alignment coupling knowing that the prop shaft angle is already rigidly fixed in place to give as near perfect an alignment as possible.
The rigid alignment coupling is removed and replaced with a flexi coupling of the same length after everything is secured in the correct position. I have used this method since I started with r/c model boats the 1960's to prevent any avoidable vibration in power trains with petrol engines and glow engines and it works just as well now with electric motors.
Miss-aligned drive trains can cause rough running models and possible fractures and pre-mature failure and wear that can be avoided with a well aligned motor and coupling.
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We each have our own favoured methods. I prefer to install and align mine with all the components loose, though I do use non-adjustable mounts.
I've never had a problem with a keel breaking even though I pre-slot them. But have you seen the width of keel and doublers that I use!
As far as the Stiletto goes, watch this space! That's all I'm going to say at the moment!
Chris
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PM Chris.
Regards Ian.
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We each have our own favoured methods. I prefer to install and align mine with all the components loose, though I do use non-adjustable mounts.
I've never had a problem with a keel breaking even though I pre-slot them. But have you seen the width of keel and doublers that I use!
As far as the Stiletto goes, watch this space! That's all I'm going to say at the moment!
Chris
I never use the adjustment on my mounts once they are fitted Chris, so mine will be like yours - fit and forget! :-))
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I'd use one of your type mounts though if I was replacing an existing mount and/or prop shaft as the adjustment would make it easier to get the alignment right.
With my new-builds I move the prop shaft to get the alignment right. Horses for courses and both have the desired result. :-))
Chris
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I'd use one of your type mounts though if I was replacing an existing mount and/or prop shaft as the adjustment would make it easier to get the alignment right.
With my new-builds I move the prop shaft to get the alignment right. Horses for courses and both have the desired result. :-))
Chris
I go the opposite way with motor and prop shaft fitting Chris as I give the prop shaft angle priority.
The prop shaft angle is chosen to suit the hull so once that is set I don't want to change it.
I make the prop shaft as short as I can and then make the motor mount and coupling fit to the shaft.
Motor mounting blocks/plates to sit the motor mount on are the last part to be made and fitted after the bottom skins are fitted and before the side skins are fitted.
Retro-fitting is not quite so easy in a pre-made boat, but on almost every restoration I have done the above method works just as well but sometimes I have to cut out the original mounting blocks/plates and make new ones to suite the new installation - sometimes due to poor alignment of the original fit, but just as often due to changing the motor to a suitable out-runner that is smaller than the original power choice.
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Hi All
Found this plan by Circlip on another forum as PDF.
Look pretty good !!!!
Harry
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Hi All
Found this plan by Circlip on another forum as PDF.
Look pretty good !!!!
Harry
That is a good find Harry :-))
It is interesting to see the use of a pair of sub-breasthooks (parts B1A) on this plan - similar to those I have just added to the Sea Comm reclaim/build, but with the chine stringers wrapping all the way around them.
This is a much better idea than shown on the Sea Comm plans where they just meet at an un-supported point on either side of the fore-keel.
The Stiletto is a nice little mini-Rapier and if it performs as well it will be a super little boat to run.
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Hi Zooma
I will be back to the printers next week and a resize to 30 and 1/2" (774mm).
As one of the members wishes to build one.
We agreed that 640mm is too small and 980mm(SPOOKY size) is too big.
Only have to draw up the bulkheads which is very easy.
Harry
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Hi Zooma
I will be back to the printers next week and a resize to 30 and 1/2" (774mm).
As one of the members wishes to build one.
We agreed that 640mm is too small and 980mm(SPOOKY size) is too big.
Only have to draw up the bulkheads which is very easy.
Harry
Yours will be a Midi Stiletto........................
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Well, it appears as though the cat is getting out of the bag, so may as well come clean to save you lads doing any unnecessary work, unless you want to! So much for watch this space!
That drawing is the same as Wills and is a cleaned up version (excellent job done by Circlip/Ian) of the drawing shown in the photo posted by Tony. I borrowed the drawing from Eraser, on the Model Boats forum, and got it scanned.
RedPMG/Peter is currently drawing up the templates for two versions. One as original and the other as a lift off superstructure for those of us that like that sort of thing. So there will be a full set of accurate drawings.
I hadn't intended building a Stiletto but it looks as though I will be now! To be honest will make a nice change as can paint the whole thing and less detail like window frames etc. Much quicker build than my Faireys.
Like Harry, I'm thinking of building a bit bigger though.
Chris
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Well, it appears as though the cat is getting out of the bag, so may as well come clean to save you lads doing any unnecessary work, unless you want to! So much for watch this space!
That drawing is the same as Wills and is a cleaned up version (excellent job done by Circlip/Ian) of the drawing shown in the photo posted by Tony. I borrowed the drawing from Eraser, on the Model Boats forum, and got it scanned.
RedPMG/Peter is currently drawing up the templates for two versions. One as original and the other as a lift off superstructure for those of us that like that sort of thing. So there will be a full set of accurate drawings.
I hadn't intended building a Stiletto but it looks as though I will be now! To be honest will make a nice change as can paint the whole thing and less detail like window frames etc. Much quicker build than my Faireys.
Like Harry, I'm thinking of building a bit bigger though.
Chris
Nice to see you are having a go at a Stiletto - and if you are able to share the bulkhead template drawings etc with us it would save me a lot of time as I cut the parts for Will so that he can try to build a new Sea Commander/Stiletto of his own {-)
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That was the whole idea Bob!
Chris
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Well, it appears as though the cat is getting out of the bag, so may as well come clean to save you lads doing any unnecessary work, unless you want to! So much for watch this space!
That drawing is the same as Wills and is a cleaned up version (excellent job done by Circlip/Ian) of the drawing shown in the photo posted by Tony. I borrowed the drawing from Eraser, on the Model Boats forum, and got it scanned.
RedPMG/Peter is currently drawing up the templates for two versions. One as original and the other as a lift off superstructure for those of us that like that sort of thing. So there will be a full set of accurate drawings.
I hadn't intended building a Stiletto but it looks as though I will be now! To be honest will make a nice change as can paint the whole thing and less detail like window frames etc. Much quicker build than my Faireys.
Like Harry, I'm thinking of building a bit bigger though.
Chris
WoW!! You kept that quiet Mr Fairey.
As much as I love the Faireys, it's great to hear that you are building a Lesro boat and that it's gonna be a quicker build, meaning some sea time for you, instead of just building. Well done Chris and thank you too.
Will
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That was the whole idea Bob!
Chris
Thank you Chris - your effort (and Ian and Peter's efforts) are very much appreciated by us all. :-))
Bob.
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Sorry Chris, I had hoped that Peter's bits would have been available before the thing appeared on here. Hope everyone on the forum who is going to profit from your actions of un 'butting' is appreciated. As mentioned on the source forum, the actual plan quality is abysmal in comparison to the AeroKits drawings and I originally thought it to be a tracing, but the same quality is shown on the photo which is a different rendering. Again, sorry Chris but thanks for supplying the info to the underground. ok2
Regards Ian.
Would imagine anyone could hack a few bits of wood for the formers before Peter wastes his time.
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Sorry Chris, I had hoped that Peter's bits would have been available before the thing appeared on here. Hope everyone on the forum who is going to profit from your actions of un 'butting' is appreciated. As mentioned on the source forum, the actual plan quality is abysmal in comparison to the AeroKits drawings and I originally thought it to be a tracing, but the same quality is shown on the photo which is a different rendering. Again, sorry Chris but thanks for supplying the info to the underground. ok2
Regards Ian.
Would imagine anyone could hack a few bits of wood for the formers before Peter wastes his time.
It's good to share and help each other whenever we can. O0
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Sorry Chris, I had hoped that Peter's bits would have been available before the thing appeared on here. Hope everyone on the forum who is going to profit from your actions of un 'butting' is appreciated. As mentioned on the source forum, the actual plan quality is abysmal in comparison to the AeroKits drawings and I originally thought it to be a tracing, but the same quality is shown on the photo which is a different rendering. Again, sorry Chris but thanks for supplying the info to the underground. ok2
Regards Ian.
Would imagine anyone could hack a few bits of wood for the formers before Peter wastes his time.
No problem Ian. Once the lads, are on the case there's no chance of keeping anything secret! :-) What's the relationship between LR and Aerokits, did he use to work for them?
Chris
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No problem Ian. Once the lads, are on the case there's no chance of keeping anything secret! :-) What's the relationship between LR and Aerokits, did he use to work for them?
Chris
It sounds like it wasn't too much of a secret anyway Chris if was already available on another forum as a PDF %% - that's where Harry found it and then kindly mentioned it to us all here on Mayhem as he knew we have been searching for info to help each other build some new Stiletto models.
You and Harry (and his pal in Tasmania) may have a better idea altogether by making your models a little bit bigger as it may well work better at the 30" sort of size and be less sensitive to our Great British weather - so the model could be used more often!
Good idea :-))
Will and I hadn't considered making a bigger version of the Stiletto - but they could be much more usable and still be "car size" - which was the original reason for wanting to find one - and when we couldn't find one - we knew we would have to make one!
The unavailability of (firstly) a good used model to restore and (secondly) a readily available set of plans and templates is what sparked this thread off in the first place and it has shown us that there is a lot more interest in this quirky little model than we expected there to be.
Neither the Rapier nor the Stiletto sold in massive numbers back in the 1960' and 70's when they were both freely available , so it is really good to find such an interest in them in 2022.
This is really good news for those of us that enjoy seeing classic model boat kits rescued from obscurity by being restored or by making new replicas. O0
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It was on another forum thanks to Chris, HE did the ground work.
"The Aerokits range of boats were designed by Les Rowell and manufactured from the mid 1950's to c1970. They were all of a similar hard chine design constructed mainly from plywood. These models were established at Gorleston in Norfolk and distributed by Keil Kraft at Wickford in Essex."
Regards Ian.
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It was on another forum thanks to Chris, HE did the ground work.
"The Aerokits range of boats were designed by Les Rowell and manufactured from the mid 1950's to c1970. They were all of a similar hard chine design constructed mainly from plywood. These models were established at Gorleston in Norfolk and distributed by Keil Kraft at Wickford in Essex."
Regards Ian.
Credit and thanks are due to anyone and everyone who has helped us all by contributing to this thread and is why Mayhem is such a good helpful shared resource for us all to enjoy and benefit from together.
Chris, Harry, Will and yourself (to name just a few) have always been ready to freely offer their help ..... and I am really pleased to see Chris preparing to make his first non-Fairey powerboat model. %)
The production history of Aerokits is good to know - so thanks for sharing that with us all on Mayhem. :-))
I had no idea that Aerokits had such a short production run of less than 20 years. They certainly made a good impact on the model boat community at the time and they continue to be enjoyed by so many of us over 50 years after they ceased production.
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Yes, thanks for the history Ian. I've got an Aerokits kit drawing that I used as the basis for my Swordsman build and as you alluded to the draughtmanship is first class compared to the Lesro drawings. At least there was a Stiletto drawing though and examples have been found.
The Stiletto drawing takes me back to my draughting days and all the lettering I did with my Rotring pens and stencils. I used to get really annoyed if I couldn't get my 8s right and couldn't wait for 1988 to come to an end! I've still got all my drawing equipment, though not used on the drawing board for must be 10 years now. I do use them for transferring my drawings to ply though.
So that looks like at least 5 Stilleto builds then, including Harry and his mate, which is good and makes it worthwhile, even if it does force me to deviate from my Faireys! {-)
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I'd have to dig some old copies of Model Boats to be sure, but I'm sure Aerokits lasted well into the 70s, if not the 80s.
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I too iterate what Bob/Zooma says, in huge thank you to anyone who has contributed in any way to this(now these) project(s), it's hugely appreciated.
Again as Bob said, I too have found members on this and one or two other forums hugely helpful in sharing their knowledge and tips with me. I am very much a novice when it comes to building model boats. The RC side of things, I have a bit more knowledge of, thanks to a some years of flying both Rc planes and helicopters, but building boats, not so much. But, I am enjoying learning and also (very) slowly repairing some of the boats that I have bought to rescue, tidy up and then convert to electric because there's much more option to use them around here being quiet and pollution free in comparison to ic.
Thank you again guys.
Will
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Sorry, should have credited the comment on AeroKits to Model Boats forum. Existing kit stocks could well have been available into the eighties but JoTiKa took over the name and had stocks of the original AK printed plan sheets.
Don't forget the original 'Pens' Chris, "Uno"
Regards Ian.
Edit for spullin.
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Hi Ian
Uno doesn't ring a bell with me. I started my proper fulltime job in 1972 and my first set of drawing pens were Pelikan (which I might still have somewhere) which consisted of a penholder and various nibs which you had to put drops of ink on to get going. They produced wonderful lines, especially the very thin ones, but they were difficult to draw curves with. The nibs for stencilling were very good and I found better than the Rotring pens. My drawing pencils were Stadler clutch pencils where you had to sharpen the lead with a small sharpener or more often small pieces of sandpaper.
Most of my drawing equipment was German and I certainly spent a few quid over my working life on pens, pencils, compass sets, scales, adjustable set-squares, ink and 10 metre rolls of tracing paper etc.
I've even got my very first compass set which I bought for technical drawing at school. I saw a very similar one in an antique shop last week!
Chris
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..."clutch pencils where you had to sharpen the lead with a small sharpener or more often small pieces of sandpaper.
..didn't the Staedtler clutch pencil [with the blue plastic body - circa 1958?] have its own lead sharpener in the removable chrome-plated brass thumb pusher in the end of the pencil? O0
Uno drawing equipment was much later than Staedtler
(https://images.officeworks.com.au/api/2/img///s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/wc-prod-pim/BrandLogo_400x400/Staedtler.png/optimise?auth=MjA5OTcwODkwMg__)
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I wasn't too far off with the spelling considering I haven't seen them for years!
You are absolutely right Derek but the inbuilt sharpener wasn't very good and blocked easily and the powder could fall out over your drawing if you weren't careful and took some cleaning off! Mine were somewhat later than 1958 though.
When I'm back home I must dig them out. I tend to use propelling and normal pencils now.
Chris
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So many smudged drawings :embarrassed: if you weren't just so careful tap, tap & tap the chrome-plated end to rid of the carbon black
You are also correct Chris, the built in sharpener left a micro ball-shaped <*< end on the lead that needed rubbing off prior to continuing
Derek
PS..
the reference to 1958, was my Dads Staedtler pencil, my singular Staedtler clutch pencil was new for me in 1960
in High School, we also took a slice of stale bread into Drawing Lessons....to wipe over the completed Drawing to remove smudges and finger prints
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CAD pah!
Not heard of the stale bread trick. What were you drawing on?
Chris
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So this was in 4th year 1964...
We would complete the Drawing of 1st, & 3rd angle projections of block shapes with sections & cutouts, then make an Isometric projection of the block shapes with sections & cutouts] on conventional paper [AO?]
Then when accepted by the Teacher, we would trace the Isometric Drawing on a plastic [todays Mylar?] in 2H pencil, then carefully wipe with the bread, then go over and ink the Drawing [pen & ink]
That exercise [20 hours?] was the practical examination for the end of year Certificate of Competency
Similar Drawing work was completed during the next 3 years of Technical Training [Apprenticeship], however remembering back %) the quality of my School drawing ability exceeded that of the later years.....not really sure why?
Derek
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I was only about 3 or 4 years behind you but we only worked with pencil and paper and cleared up any marks using an eraser.
I didn't do anymore drawing until I started work at an architect's practice and did my learning on the job and drew on mainly tracing paper and some copynegs. Did that for a few years and then became a building surveyor and project manager. I carried on producing architectural drawings though until and past retirement as family and friends call on my services!
Never did learn CAD because even though I produced building drawings at work our IT dept. in their wisdom deemed that I didn't need CAD! I used Microsoft Visio which whilst not ideal, I produced some good quality drawings and also used it for my Fairey builds. I have bought a copy of TurboCAD but haven't had much time to learn it yet.
Chris
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Harry reckons CAD stand for Cardboard Assisted Drawing {-)
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So I've heard! {-)
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I'm from the same era, starting on the drawing board in 1972 just prior to Rotring pens -
suprised no-ones mentioned the dreaded Ruling Pen ! the two pronged jobbies where you dropped a bead of ink inbetween.
I had a double barrelled version (two ruling pens mounted side by side) called a 'Railroad Pen' for parallel or thicker lines,
rarely used it, still in its box amongst my drawing kit.
Beam Compass, Flexi-curves, Putty Rubbers & solid transparent yellow 'Rotring Ink Rubbers' which didn't work, happy days.
Paul.
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I think I used a ruling pen once or twice, not sure. You're right about the Rotring Ink Rubbers, they were useless. Always had to resort to using a razor blade and eraser. Could get away with it twice on good quality tracing paper (112g Gateway from memory?) before going through and having to repair with Magictape!
Flexi-curve, French curves and a beam-compass which I used about twice amonst my stuff as well. No Putty Rubber though. There was a real skill to producing high quality drawings and I used to wince at some produced by "professionals". Of course CAD changed all that as the roughest draughtsman could then produce first class drawings!
Chris
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Great clean pdf guys. I want to build one as well! I have a soft spot for the Javelin shape and the Stiletto and Rapier are also of interest.
Have I missed info on bulkhead tracings or are these still eluding us all?
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Good that you want to build one as well. The answer is on the previous page!
But basically a full set of drawings is being produced for the Stiletto, which is always better than pulling the information from two different sources and you will have the choice of building to the original 25.75" long or 30" long as a few of us fancy doing.
So that's at least 6 so far! :-))
It would be easy enough to convert the superstructure to the Arrow/Javelin version if you so desire.
Chris
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Great clean pdf guys. I want to build one as well! I have a soft spot for the Javelin shape and the Stiletto and Rapier are also of interest.
Have I missed info on bulkhead tracings or are these still eluding us all?
Are you going to build the standard length Stiletto or a Longletto? {-)
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I am sure someone mentioned a removable superstructure, that appeals to me, two quite different looking boats, one hull. I might go for 30 inch version. Probably with Javelin superstructure to start with....... And built from ply this time😁
It would definately make it easier having a one piece superstructure, not having to get hatches fitting nice. And no split lines across your 'bonnet?' if thats what its called.
Cant wait to see some bulkheads. 😁
..... before I get impatient and start measuring off my balsa Javelin, I dont know if its angles are right, it might be shallower or deeper v than Lesro version, I guesstimated the angle from photos, looks fairly close. Anyone fancy measuring correct angle for me? Too late to affect my balsa one but would be good for my ply version I have planned next. Whether it be full 39 inch or mini 30 inch version. Whichever one I go for, I think it will be removable superstructure. The ply is on its way. Need to get the plan on my old laptop and start tracing.
Just one last thing, is the smaller (stiletto) hull identical shape to Rapier/Javelin, or is it modified?
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Silly me! Its late, nearly my bed time, thats my excuse.... Theres already enough on the plan for me to draw the bulkheads, cabin roof curves can be deduced from the plan too, might start my drawings tomorrow. Cheers for finding the plan Harry. 😁
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It was me that mentioned the removeable superstructure in Post #51 and it will be an option rather than having the removeable roof panels for access. This usually entails an upstand which would certainly facilitate a different design of superstructure but would be difficult to provide that of the Javelin as it doesnt have a superstructure as such. Having said that there must be some way of gaining access which could be replicated? Maybe rather than an upstand use a flush recess to the perimeter?
I like the idea of different superstructures on one hull and nearly pursued it with my Huntsman 31 but decided to go with the aft cabin version in the end as I have other Faireys with aft cockpits.
Chris
Edit: our posts overlapped. I'm up far too late as well. Yes, it's very easy to produce the bulkheads from that plan which was cleaned up by Circlip from the original drawing as a basis for producing the templates.
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Hi All
Just back from the printers with a medium size Stiletto plan 776mm(30 and 9/16") and width 217mm(8 and 1/2").
Time to start on bulkhead drawings !!!
Harry
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Good that you want to build one as well. The answer is on the previous page!
But basically a full set of drawings is being produced for the Stiletto, which is always better than pulling the information from two different sources and you will have the choice of building to the original 25.75" long or 30" long as a few of us fancy doing.
So that's at least 6 so far! :-))
It would be easy enough to convert the superstructure to the Arrow/Javelin version if you so desire.
Chris
Missed that in the excitement. Was looking at the plan PDFs and think it’s beyond me to be able to work out bulkheads properly as could do with a cutaway front view (which wasn’t ever provided obviously as it was a kit).
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Are you going to build the standard length Stiletto or a Longletto? {-)
Standard probably. Less sawing/whittling {-) %%
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I am sure someone mentioned a removable superstructure, that appeals to me, two quite different looking boats, one hull. I might go for 30 inch version. Probably with Javelin superstructure to start with....... And built from ply this time😁
It would definately make it easier having a one piece superstructure, not having to get hatches fitting nice. And no split lines across your 'bonnet?' if thats what its called.
Cant wait to see some bulkheads. 😁
..... before I get impatient and start measuring off my balsa Javelin, I dont know if its angles are right, it might be shallower or deeper v than Lesro version, I guesstimated the angle from photos, looks fairly close. Anyone fancy measuring correct angle for me? Too late to affect my balsa one but would be good for my ply version I have planned next. Whether it be full 39 inch or mini 30 inch version. Whichever one I go for, I think it will be removable superstructure. The ply is on its way. Need to get the plan on my old laptop and start tracing.
Just one last thing, is the smaller (stiletto) hull identical shape to Rapier/Javelin, or is it modified?
Measured my Javelin and hull V is 20 degrees from horizontal at stern.
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Thanks, I will need to hunt out my protractor.
I was thinking about the one piece superstructure needing an upstand, I think this could still be managed even though the superstructure is quite low on the Javelin. I will see what I can come up with when I start drawing. My ply is due to arrive today, once I finish my household duties, I will maybe get a chance to make a start on the drawing.
Its my wife's birthday today, we will be visiting her in hospital later so I should have a chance to make a start before or after that.
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Hi Stuw
Making Bulkheads from plans.
Use Manilla Folders with the fold as the center line.
This means you only draw up one side.
When finished cutout the drawn side with the other at the back.
Unfold for full width.
As in the Stiletto plan start with the stern.
On the side view measure from bottom to top minus the skins.
Four measurements.
The bottom chine stringer, the top of the deck stringer, next the deck inner stringer
and last the top of the deck curve.
Mark these up the center fold of the Manilla folder.
Tee square lines straight out using a pencil.
From the deck view workout from center line the cabin sides, inner deck stringer, gunwhale stringers
( the inner one being the chine stringer).
Transfer these to the correct lines on the Manilla folder.
This will give you the out points of the hull(minus skins) and location of the cabin.
Add lines to the points for the bulkhead size.
Add in your stringer and keel sizes leaving extra on the out edge to trim off.
As bulkheads 3 and 4 have the same base line at the keel use this aa a starting point.
As for the keel and cabin sides, mask tape the plan to a table and over that tracing paper or kitchen Glad Rap.
Mask tape this over the plan and draw up all the lines required.
Transfer the tracing paper to wood or Manilla folder for your templates.
The Manilla folder can be scanned to make PDF file backup for same size or resizing.
Transom done !!!
Harry
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Gentlemen I think these may help, a little late to the party, discovered only this morning on an ancient pc.
they are original Streaker parts.
Paul.
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I also have my drawing (on pdf.) of the Streaker bulkheads and cabin parts taken from a scrap hull many years ago -
I intended building a new model which didn't happen, it should be accurate but to date untested,
not sure if I can attach it, but here goes - and the answer is no, any suggestions ?
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Mr Zippy
You can attach the PDFs the same as JPEG files.
Welcome to the party, better later than never.
Thanks for the pics.
Harry
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Harry,
Thanks for the step by step explanation. Do we know the kit thickness of ply for bulkheads, skins etc?
Mr Zippy,
Great photo of the Streaker/Javelin parts. Assume Stiletto similar shapes for some of these except the cabin bulkheads. Bob zooma I’ve linked to these photos on your Javelin thread for future reference for anyone looking.
Thanks all for the inspiration and the historical information that we are preserving here....
Are we going to end up with a Mayhem Stiletto fleet? (in various stages of completion with mine last no doubt!)
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Hi Stuw
I think the standard was 1/4" bulkheads and 1/16" skins.
I am going 4mm bulkheads, keel and 2mm skins which is available.
4 x 8mm stringers.
Harry
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Hi Guys just tried again and cannot upload onto Mayhem,
file was originally drawn on a Mac and saved as a pdf. which I can view on my pc,
its up in the background while I'm typing this, but fails to upload, any thoughts?
Paul.
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Hi Mr.Zippy.
PM sent.
Send them to my email address please.
I can see what I can do with them.
Maybe the files are too big for the forum site ???
If Large files you can use We Transfer, which is a free large transfer site.
Harry
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Hi Stuw, The protractor says....... 19 degrees for my balsa Javelin. Not bad at all for guestimation based on photos. I put it down to camera lens curvature! 😁
I will need to draw up new bulkheads for my ply version anyway, my balsa ones were sized for 1/4 bottom sheeting, 1/8 sides and 3/32 deck. And a different keel setup.
All new info will be incorporated.
Will definately see if I can have swappable superstructures, the thought did cross my mind briefly during the balsa Javelin build, but I decided to do it similar to original type.
I will probably go for full 39 inch ply Javelin first and do removable topped 30 inch version Stiletto/Javelin after that.
My 4 ways cargo ship has 4 different layouts using same superstructure and I was going to do a different superstructure for it as well, at some point..... Its on my list. 😁 So I do like swapability.
Will the 30 inch version still be 1/16 skins? I used 1/32 ply on a 36 inch hull years ago with no apparent problems. It was light and fast.
Dont see it flexing much by the time it is glued on the frame and spray rails glued to it. Not sure, will see when I get to that stage, I got a few things to finish off first.... 😁
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Hi Harry - yes I checked file size at 490Kb which should have worked ok,
its on its way via PM keep me posted thanks Paul.
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Many parts are 4mm, but Bow chine former and breasthook are 6mm according to the instruction book.
I will post it on here later.
Will
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Stiletto instructions and wood thicknesses.
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Busy drawing up all parts for laser cutting with lift off superstructure in two sizes for Chris & myself - Chris obtained the original plan & had it scanned - Circlip did his usual magic trick (that's the plan he (Ian) posted on RC groups that Harry has simply resized and posted on this & other MB sites )
Was going to remaster the original but it does not seem worthwhile - there appear to be too many jumping on the bandwagon !
Would rather produce the same hull with thinner keel & other mods as the original was designed for IC power................
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I’m just interested in the original version but hopefully haven’t upset anyone with this interest! Not trying to steal anyone’s thunder. Just a Lesro fan who would like to keep the models alive (when I can more devote time to it).
Will back away from the bandwagon carefully. ok2
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.................. hopefully haven’t upset anyone with this interest! Not trying to steal anyone’s thunder. Just a Lesro fan who would like to keep the models alive (when I can more devote time to it).
DITTO - Absolutely......... :-))
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Hi Stuw
I love you to keep on the bandwagon.
Always room for another Lesro fan .
I think it has taken months to track down a plan and thanks to Circlip he has come up trumps!!!
I bought a nice little half cabin cruiser for $50au, did not know what it was ??
But a few pics on the forum sites and I had a Nor-Star Waverider !!!
So it goes with my Sea Hornet, Swordsman(still building), 2 Huntsman and a Wavemaster.
Working on a Nor-Star Wave Princess at present.
I think I have the bug for old boats !!!
Harry
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Its always nice to see more people either sharing their interest in classic model boat kits or getting involved for the first time.
Sharing information and helping each other to either restore, rescue, or even build replica's (of original size of not) is what helpful forum threads like this one are all about and it is good to see.
Lets hope we see a lot more "getting on the bandwagon" (a rather unfortunate phrase) and hope that no-one is being discouraged from using this freely available information that should benefit as many people as possible without restriction.
Stay with us Stuw - and use as much of the information seen here as you want to. If it is shown on here then its available to everyone. :-))
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Harry
The drawing that Circlip posted is the exact same drawing that was shown on this thread originally (taken from the Model Boats forum) and is the exact same drawing that Will subsequently found a better copy of, so a drawing was available sometime ago before Circlip posted one on RC Groups.
Circlip cleaned up the drawing (the first one shown which I got scanned) by removing marks etc. and straightened out any distortion caused by printing, folding and age.
It contains no additional information! The two previous drawings could have been used just as easily to produce the bulkheads though it is of course nice to start with a more accurate drawing but not essential.
Chris
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Thanks all of you who have spent time and money sorting out all this helpful information.
It’s great that we are able to get it all together from far flung parts of the planet! This site helped me greatly during lockdown here in UK and I’m now a daily viewer. It’s much more positive and inspiring than the daily news!
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Streaker/Javelin bulkheads, cabin side/ends & breasthook should be on attached pdf.Paul.
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You certainly made use of your drawing skills there Paul. :-))
Proper job!
Chris
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Hi Chris
Yes the old skills are handy occasionally and no ink involved this time !
sadly this was all I needed to draw back in the day - because we had the original drawing for side & plan elevations.
Granted the design is somewhat of a 'classic' - but I think it's very slab sided (vertical for most of its length),
and could benefit from a few degrees of flare to the sides, now there's a challenge for someone !
Paul.
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Yeah, but you've drawn the most important parts there. The others could easily be drawn with reference to your photographs. Just need Will to track down the kit plan now!
Funnily enough when looking at the Stiletto kit plan I initially thought that the hull sides had some angle to them as that was what it looked like from the small assembly drawings. But the plan shows the deck and chine stringers directly over each other from the bow rearwards, so as you say slab sided. Not too bad though as the freeboard is not that great.
Would be easy enough to modify though I suppose you are moving away from the original design then. I'm already thinking of making some modifications to the "Stiletto" superstructure but I'm not being precious about it as at 30" long it is neither a Stiletto or a Rapier. Could always build two superstructures, one modified and one original? Some narrowing on plan towards the stern wouldn't go amiss either!
Chris
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Hi Chris
Yes the old skills are handy occasionally and no ink involved this time !
sadly this was all I needed to draw back in the day - because we had the original drawing for side & plan elevations.
Granted the design is somewhat of a 'classic' - but I think it's very slab sided (vertical for most of its length),
and could benefit from a few degrees of flare to the sides, now there's a challenge for someone !
Paul.
I noticed on photos that Original sides looked almost vertical, I angled mine on the Javelin in at the bottom by 5mm, not much but bit less slabby.
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The 5mm is measured on widest area of side. Due to the slant, as the rear deck slopes down, it actually narrows a small amount towards the stern.
My 'Javelin' isnt really a Javelin, theres a good few differences, but I like them. Lol.
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Andy, when I was attempting to draw some bulkheads from the Stiletto plan, I noticed how slab sided it was too, from about B3 back.
With my current drawing and building skills, that doesn't bother me at present, but in the future, maybe a slight alteration, like you have done might be something that I will attempt as well, just out of curiosity as much as anything.
Will
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HI All
I had a go at the bulkheads, but, from my mate said I made mistakes on the chine sections !!!
Well, it did remove the slab sides, so bottom of B3, 4 and 5 ended up the same with different cabin heights .
Harry