Model Boat Mayhem
Shows, Events, Club websites and Club Events => Commercial Events and News => Topic started by: Andyn on February 09, 2023, 12:49:38 pm
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I’m rather concerned as to what I’m going to do with my thousands of pounds worth or RC equipment when the government bans glow fuel. That’ll mean I’m sat on over 10k worth of stuff that I’ll have to try to sell abroad. This is unfortunately another product of the hobby declining
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............................. when the government bans glow fuel.
??? When will it happen ?
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??? When will it happen ?
They will, it’s just a matter of time. You currently can’t buy over 25% nitromethane content fuel without an Explosives Precursor license, which is rumoured to be changing to 16%. I won’t be at all surprised when it’s banned altogether
I’m also dreading the day when my ‘local’ lake (102 mile round trip) where I can actually run my IC boats has them banned because someone in the council decides we can’t have them anymore
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OK i thought that I had missed something.
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And why do the local councils ban IC boats? Can't be a noise issue as some of todays electrics sound like portable chainsaws/strimmers. I vividly remember Robbie Coultraine 'Disposing of' an 049 in a Scottish Lock after referring to them as 'Noisy little B****s'
Regards Ian.
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People complain about noisy fast electrics too, usually the ones with surface piercing props, which tend to make a lot of the noise. With ic engines a lot of the issue was usually modellers running without silencing or very minimal silencing for extended periods. A well silenced ic model makes very little noise. The other issue, and this is not exclusive to ic engines was usually high speed coupled with poor control- smashing into other models etc.
Sadly a few who insist on behaving without restraint often results in blunt legislation, rather than the application of a bit of sense and discretion.
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Noisy electric models might well become a problem for us all. Electric models are often allowed because they are quiet. If they start getting complaints about noisy or dangerous electric models then all electric models will get banned on a pond. Once something like this happens it becomes a precedent.
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Fast electrics and these club500 things are certainly not much fun to be near when they are on the water.
Very fast, noisy and a great disturbance for any wildlife. I see a potential problem fir clubs that promote.
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I agree, I take my (scale-ish) boats off the water when someone is running a fast electric, and if they seem to be well equipped with spare battery packs, pack up and go home.
I know it's horse for courses, and expect that the who favour fast electric curse us oldies pottering about with their scale nonsense.
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'Noisy Club500' ?????
Fast and scary looking maybe ( especially if you've got your beautiful scale boat on the water ), but not "noisy"!
Running fast and slow boats, at the same time / location, is surly a matter of negotiation, club / pond rules .... and intelligence.
( If it is nosy, there is something dramatically wrong with it! )
Club500 race: https://youtu.be/dqYfIugAfXc
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Noisy they most definitely are. High revving motors.
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What is considered "Noisy" will differ between individuals. I consider the high pitch whine from some brushless models to be noisy and disturbing the peace. I sail on the village pond & I don't think that I would be at all popular if my models were much more than silent. I can see the Parish Council banning model boats in such circumstances.
I would agree that one Club 500 with a brushed 540 isn't noisy. This is noisy however (& even worse if a group of friends arrive with several of them!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQMpFvXbm4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQMpFvXbm4)
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Fast electrics and these club500 things are certainly not much fun to be near when they are on the water.
Very fast, noisy and a great disturbance for any wildlife. I see a potential problem fir clubs that promote.
Disturbance to wildlife is debatable, our club pond has a resident pair of swans and several ducks plus a considerable number of Gulls at times. In summer there can also be around 4 or 5 young swans. We have run fast electrics including very fast boats and Club 500. In the past when we have held fast electric races (restricted class using Sloopys) it was not uncommon for swans to swim across the racing course during a race, in one case one swam right in front of a boat turning a corner, the boat ended up travelling under the swan which just kept calmly swimming on not appearing to notice. I could run a fast boat (4S LiPo, brushless motor and surface prop) in wide turns round swimming gulls without much effect, they didn't fly away as they would if frightened.
As for problems with scale and fast boats, our pond is large enough that scale stays at one end while the fast boats needing room stay away and can use the rest of the pond. Collisions between them are very rare and normally at slow speed, there are more collisions between scale boats on a typical sailing day than happened in a year with fast boats.
Jim
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Thanks for opening another topic heading Martin, would have been in more trouble leaving it running there!
You can hear the noise in Tugs video I'm sure?
I wouldn't say it's "debatable " whether it disturbs wildlife, in Martins video link the craft actually hit the Canada Goose I thought?
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We have swans, geese, ducks and gulls. We avoid them all as far as possible. We have been visited by the local RSPA who would rather we weren't there at all but seem to accept thta we take care not interact in any way with the wildfowl. WE only occasiobally sail club 500s amd then never near the birds.
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Most boating ponds and lakes will have wildlife present. These 500 things just bully waterbirds to the margins or away for good.
Not pleasant to see. Your club has the right idea to play it cautiously.
RSPCA etc carry lot of weight!
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I see nothing wrong with club 500's. Small and modestly powered sport fast electric. Submerged drive , so little noise.
It when the 1kw+ 6s monsters start hitting the lake that things get interesting.
If you're worried about your club, I'd say a much greater threat for most of them is the age range.
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Sixty years ago in complaints section of local rag, annoyance of 'Screaming jet boats' on local park lake. There were two of us, one a Hunter powered Crash Tender and mine, a Hornet powered Sea Hornet.
Regards Ian.
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There's no sharing the water when these plastic craft are let loose, other boats nor wildlife. Like I said before not pleasant to see.
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It’s actually really disappointing to see people in other clubs have the same attitude to fast boats as a lot in my club do. We operate a clockwise course for all fast boats, with spotters for wildlife and other boats etc. In the past we’ve shared the lake with ‘slow’ boats very happily, but in the last couple of years the scale and sail guys have all started coming on a different day to the rest of us.
In all my years of boating, I’ve only seen one incident at our lake that was caused by a fast boat hitting a sail boat. Thankfully the sail boat owner wasn’t put off by the collision and still joins us.
Taking all the other boats off the lake isn’t the answer. Fast boats need to stick to a course and be predictable in their driving. If in a club someone is driving in a manner that could cause harm to other boats (or anything else for that matter) then they should be asked to remove their boat from the water
As for the point of “disturbing the wildlife”, it’s one that has come up every now and then and is proven every time to be an absolute crock. I recently had a woman come up to me at our lake angrily telling me that we shouldn’t be allowed to use the lake because she didn’t like the noise and we were disturbing the wildlife. As I was explaining to her (in a very polite way) that she was an utter waste of oxygen my clubmate had finished his run, within 30 seconds of him picking his boat out of the water the geese flocked back into the lake. So much for disturbing the wildlife…
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Unfortunately, a lot of fairly quick electric boats are operated by people with no understanding of "Fast boats need to stick to a course and be predictable in their driving".
I used to run IC boats with John Stidwell, his boats were immaculate and very quiet, and his driving skills were of the highest order. Other people tried to copy him and rapidly came unstuck.
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We sail in the centre of a public park and sometimes get complaints saying we might frighten the birds.
We show the video of the swans gliding round the lake during the annual council run bonfire and firework display and that deals with that problem.
Swan herding using 2 boats is a popular club competition and surprisingly attracts quite an audience; slow and quiet gets it done.
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Unfortunately, a lot of fairly quick electric boats are operated by people with no understanding of "Fast boats need to stick to a course and be predictable in their driving".
Then it’s the responsibility of a club’s officers to implement rules that govern their safe operation…
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Isn't it just common sense?
We share our pond with over 40 resident swans, numerous breeding pairs of mallards and coots, with one pair that actually nest inside our lighthouse. Geese are frequent visitors to the pond too. We have a great relationship with the RSPB and also with our local bird sanctuary, to which we give an annual donation. We look after our wildlife and promptly report any that is unwell, as we feel they are a huge asset to the park. When we have fast boats running, we usually keep to certain areas so as keep disturbance to both wildlife and other boaters to a minimum. Re. the 500s, I personally, have not heard a noisy club 500 and we have a good number in our club.
As I say... It's all down to common sense, but unfortunately, you always get someone who likes to complain now and again.
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Then it’s the responsibility of a club’s officers to implement rules that govern their safe operation…
The club I am a member of does not have exclusive use of the water, it is in a public park and anyone can sail there. There are effective rules in place for club members, but there is no way of policing the non members who also use the water.
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Isn't it just common sense?
Sadly everyone has a their own interpretation of what is common and sensible.
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And don't forget 'I have the right' brigade and s*d everybody else!
Regards Ian
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Thanks for opening another topic heading Martin, would have been in more trouble leaving it running there!
You can hear the noise in Tugs video I'm sure?
I wouldn't say it's "debatable " whether it disturbs wildlife, in Martins video link the craft actually hit the Canada Goose I thought?
Canada geese aren't native to the UK and aren't 'wild' anymore than pigeons are. If someone has the 'right' to import those disgusting poop factories and clog up your waterways with tonnes of nasty goose poop, then other people should have the right to spook them by zipping around with fast boats.
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Looks like a good race that :-)) :-)) :-))
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In my view this is an interesting topic but in my view fundamentally very fast electric and scale just don't mix. You wouldn't put a family car on a grand prix circuit without asking for trouble no matter how careful either party is. There may well be collisions amongst the scale fraternity but little damage is typically done. However a big fast electric can cause catastrophic damage to a scale model which has taken years to build. There is also the wash they create to be considered.
Each to their own however and clubs should make sensible provision where possible for all interests and all should be well. Separate sailing times and/or areas and just use some common sense to try to please all.
However fast electrics are noisy, one may be okay but then that typically grows into two or three and when they are on the lake no one else can use it. The very nature of fast electrics dictates a momentary lack of concentration means they have travelled 50 feet or more so which means if they are sailed at the same time as scale then its too dangerous for scale to sail. My scale models take years to build and if there is a very fast electric on the water I just won't sail as I don't want there to be an accident at all.
The reality is if clubs permit a lot of fast electrics (not talking about club 500) to sail then there will be a noise issues and complaints made and the loss of the water may typically result as councils won't take a chance and if by accident you hit a swan or goose and a complaint is made then no model boating at all. The general public much prefer swans and geese than model boats. You only have to see the outcry when a model boater complains his boat was attacked by a swan, its just a battle we can't win.
This may or may not be fair but it is the case so we all need to be mindful of the realities. Hopefully there are waters where fast electrics and i.c. can be used albeit people may have to travel more to enjoy this element of the hobby.
Fast electrics are also not what they used to be, they are now extremely fast and could be lethal if loss of control and they hit the bank and fly into the air. As regards i.c. in my opinion whilst most boaters are sensible there is always a small percentage that are not and won't fit proper silencers and they spoil it for the rest of us. Either way i.c. do have a greater potential for pollution which is an absolute no for councils. Again I do hope there are dedicated sites where they can be used for those who enjoy that side of the hobby.
Times and boat performances have just changed and we need to move with the times to preserve access to valuable water sites. If we take risks sooner or later we will loose them. Whether there is actual danger to wildlife is one thing (fast eclectics and i.c. inherently put wildlife at risk just because of their speed) but the public perception is also that there must be, (even if there hasn't been a recorded event on a particular lake), is what counts and can cost the hobby the use of lakes.
As the world moves on certain behaviour patterns that were once acceptable are no more acceptable. Typically if you ask to use a new water I would bet the answer would be no because lots of council people only see screaming diesel or electric boats making noise and pollution and they don't have the resources or will to monitor the sites for correct and sensible usage.
A little off topic but with the expansion of the ULEZ which will probably be adopted by various cities in the UK this could also kill the hobby (boats and planes) if you have to buy an expensive new car just to travel!
Cheers
Geoff
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Don't recall hearing a 'Screaming Diesel' in a toy boat? Glowbortions yes, but not Diesels.
Regards Ian.
Seems one of my postings disappeared on this topic.