Some have bottle underneath - some have a cup on top - which is best?I prefer the top feed ones, and agree about using aerosols for larger areas.
I would still use an aerosol for large surfaces so the airbrush would be mostly for detail work.
Dave.
Martin
If you're interested I could take the task on. I used to custom paint model railway equipment for people. I've given tutorials on airbrushing at various NMRA conventions and just did one in our local hobby shop for the patrons.
Let me know if you're interested.
John
I have a couple of public domain e-books on the subject of weathering. They are model railway and military related but still have some good tips and techniques that could be transfered to boats
martin - how to adjust the airbrush to widen/narrow spray width and to adjust the amount of paint required and finally the pressure required for different types
of jobs and paints.
Geoff
Hi all,
I have wanted a decent airbrush for ages. I have one of the cheap Humbrol ones which is now defunct.
So what should I buy?
What is the best value?
Some have bottle underneath - some have a cup on top - which is best?
I would still use an aerosol for large surfaces so the airbrush would be mostly for detail work.
Comments from those "in the know", please.
Dave.
Hi John,
It is great that you are taking on this task - can you cover these topics as well?
Dave
and even transferring paint from those little tinlets would be great. :-))
Regards, Tony.
Thanks John,
Someone that's going out to buy a new airbrush for the first time, what should we look for and/or ovoid?
For your first brush I'd go for something not too expensive, however, I would want some thing that can reasonably do the type of painting I want to work up to. For that reason I wouldn't select the external mixing brush such as the Badger 250 in the photographs. I did that route when I started and I rapidly found that my skill level overtook the brushes ability to do what I wanted. Its not that I'm a quick learner, quite the contrary, but doing air brushing isn't as hard as some people fear. Therefore we all tend to pick it up quickly once tried. With that in mind I'd tend to start with one of the internal mix, single stage brushes. Its simple to use, gives a good finish and only has one control to get used to handling when you're starting out. If you find your skill level improves to go to a double action, and the kind of painting you're expecting to be doing works better with it, then move up to a double action internal mix. The first purchase brush won't go wasted, you'll still find plenty of work for it over the years, but your skill level will have allowed you to increase your tool repertoire and therefore, the quality of product you put out.
John
My Appologies Olidiron I had totally forgotten who the other airbrush Genius was,when i posted that Voyager was good to do this tutorial I knew there was someone else on the forum who was Brillaint at the craft.
I myself cant wait to read all about it.Yes I am a fully quallified paint sprayer BUT Tell me ...who is NEVER to old to learn something NEW let alone be reminded of the baisics,so far it is absoloutly brillaint keep up the good work
Stav
I picked up this leaflet at HobbyCraft the other day...... %)
A much appreciated and informative tutorial :-))
Regarding the 3 types of airbrush you mentioned ,of the 3 which is the most versatile and best suited to all round abilities ? and are all types equally proficient with the different mediums available for spraying?
you mentioned the psi needs of the different types, do the internal/external ones also have different operating pressures, and all types suitable for canned air until funds permit buying a compressor .
If possible can you also include, where applicable, examples @ approximate prices ?
would like to get one brush that fits all needs for all people all the time... and cheap!!..YEAH RIGHT!!
I as will countless others, now and in years to come..... THANK YOU.
......NIGEL....
I guess you wont know where i can get one in LEEDS then ?
I guess you wont know where i can get one in LEEDS then ? :embarrassed:
can you advise on brand/model?
(CANADA!! thats not near here...is it?)
thanks again.
I have bought a few off ebay.uk - and these people are quite cheap - http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/AIR_BRUSHES_.html
I have a query about an airbrush item that oldiron may be able to answer - it concerns a small cup provided with my bottle-fed brush. The cup is a small metal one with an angled feed pipe - shown here:
If I were to use it for normal airbrushing, the angled feed pipe would mean that the paint would all spill out. The only way I could use it is if I were airbrushing vertically upwards - like this:
But in practice the bottle feed will work at this angle as well - so I can see no obvious need for a separate 'vertical' cup. However it seems to be a common accessory for bottle-fed brushes. Am I right in thinking that it is a 'vertical spraying' accessory, and, if so, why only for bottle-fed brushes?
Doggy:
May I suggest investing in a bottle and fitting to go into your brush. You'll find it much more useful for model work.
How does this kit look oldiron? £70 GBP
How does this kit look oldiron? £70 GBP
Woof, Woof....
For modeling I find a bottle to be very useful, since we are likely to use our airbrushes as sprayguns as well as detail painters, and you really need a lot of paint for a hull. I also find the underfeed models to be a bit cumbersome to hold - Everythingairbrush in the UK do a side-feed bottle model which looks more practical - the AB-133 here: http://www.everythingairbrush.com/acatalog/Suction_Feed.html
I'll check what I've written...
I have a similar one made by Badger, plus compresser similar to that in the add..... had it for about 10 years...................never use it. too much of a farse cleaning it out every time I want to change colours, so it sits in a corner collecting dust.............I find it easier using aerosols from such places as Halfords. :(( :(( :((
I have been after a cheap airbrush and compressor!!
I have been after a cheap airbrush and compressor!! ok2Dave's got one he never uses (air brush and compressor that is). You can just borrow that then don't bother givin it back. Kills two birds with one stone ...... you get the airbrush and I make some room in the kitchen, and if we both deny all knowledge he'll just think it's in the shed :}
For the UK, I think that two good places to look for cheap airbrushes are:
http://www.everythingairbrush.co.uk/
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/AIR_BRUSHES_AND_COMPRESSORS.html
but just after VAT has gone up to 20% is the wrong time to be looking for cheap items of any kind.... <:( <:(
Apologies to you oldiron, I deliberately didn't post my above query on to your air brush tutorial as I didn't want to disrupt the flow of your posts. However a moderator has seen fit to move it here so I hope it won't detract from your fine masterclass which I am enjoying very much.
Apologies again, not my fault,
All the best.
Dave
what I want to know is are the airbrush/compressor kits any good?
Dave's got one he never uses (air brush and compressor that is). You can just borrow that then don't bother givin it back. Kills two birds with one stone ...... you get the airbrush and I make some room in the kitchen, and if we both deny all knowledge he'll just think it's in the shed :}
Oldiron AKA John,
Is the example below the same as your Badger 2000.
Confuses us novices/newbies etc when they refer to them as detail, deluxe, medium etc {:-{ {:-{
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBTC8&P=7
John,
:-)) :-)) Looks like we may become air brush painters of after all.
Now know what an air brush looks like. :embarrassed:
Thank you. :-)) :-))
Great stuff here Thanks!
Any info on spraying Klass Kote epoxy paint would be appreciated I have a boat that will be my test subject in the near future.
I'm planning on using a Paasche VL with a #5 tip which supposedly other people have used with 1-2 parts reducer. I also have an inexpensive Hobbico spray gun that I haven't tried but my compressor is only 1.0 SCFM so it might be a bit small.
Hello John many thanks for such a great tutorial. Written in a manner easy to understand and absorbing to read - well done, I 'don my cap' to you sir. :-))
As mentioned before I have a new Paasche HS single action external mix brush with three tips, asking your honest opinion, how much of a disadvantage is this for general model painting compared to an internal mix brush? Can I, with a reasonable amount of practice and further tuition from your goodself, achieve good results without having to have exacting skills? (I'm not thinking of fine artwork or the use of inks etc)
Looking forward to the next installment, kind regards, Tony.
have been offered a couple of brushes,compressor,and associated items by someone,
who found them in the cellar of his new house.
do i turn my back on the opportunity ?
he,s no wiser than me and wants 40-50 pounds..
could be a steal .
At the end of this thread cannot the individual posts of the tutorial be collated into one article and pinned to the Tutorials & "How To’s" ... section (without our individual comments)? Seems too good to be "lost" amongst other threads.
Re: Cleaning your airbrush...
I've seen something somewhere called 'Airbrush Reamer' - what's that all about?
Great tutorial John!
Martin :-)
PS found some Airbursh internal diagrams....
(http://s3.postimage.org/16qkmgzb8/gravity_feed_airbrush_diagram.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/16qkmgzb8/) (http://s3.postimage.org/16qnxjoas/328_EE269679_A4476_B6_F31_E7541_A6_D5_FA.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/16qnxjoas/) (http://s3.postimage.org/16qpl30sk/ab1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/16qpl30sk/) (http://s3.postimage.org/16qr8mdac/airbrush_diagram.gif) (http://postimage.org/image/16qr8mdac/) (http://s3.postimage.org/16qsw5ps4/brush2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/16qsw5ps4/)
can you please clarify what you mean by"fine" and "detailed" .
just a little confused at what point detailed and fine begin, for example, weathering the hull and weathering winches,etc.
could both be done with an external brush or would winches etc, need an internal brush?
and.. is there any obvious ways of ascertaining whether an airbrush is ,...rubbish, for want of a better word.
Sticking to recognized and trusted brands is obviously safest but.....have been offered a couple of brushes,compressor,and associated items by someone,
who found them in the cellar of his new house.
do i turn my back on the opportunity ? He,s no wiser than me and wants 40-50 pounds..
could be a steal .
cheers.. nige
I have picked up one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINI-BABY-ELEPHANT-COMPRESSOR-AIRBRUSH-NAIL-ART-/260709521107?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item3cb37f96d3
I already have a water trap/filter and some mid range airbrushes so I think it should be OK
When it arrives Ill post a quick write up if anyone is interested
I do already have a very nice big compressor for my big spray guns/tools etc but as I like to work in the evening after the kids are in bed its not really suitable as its a bit noisy (actually a lot noisy) <:(
I was talking to a friend of mine at my local hot-rod club who does a lot of airbrush work and asked him for any beginners suggestions and his was this
"Keep your airbrush clean.... clean it well and when you think its clean enough clean it again"
He suggests one of these:-
https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?products_id=3144
Also available here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GX-Pro-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-VGT-2000-/250639606009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5b48e0f9
I trust you noticed the qualifier on the advert "only suitable for gravity feed or side delivery feed air brushes" This is because the air pressure and volume requirement is lower than for a bottom feed air brush.
Let us know how you make out.
John
Difference between "fine" and "detailed" . "Fine" is close tolerance work. In painting that means narrow, controlled sprays, misting sprays with a fine particle output to lay on soft layers of colour without perceptible droplets. The paint layers can be be built up gradually with control over the translucence of the paint covering. This will allow dust, mud, and rust covering to appear gradual and almost see through depending on the degree of weathering or pain covering you want.
"Detailed" is a along the same lines. You want to drop specific amounts of colour in a specific area on the model with great control.
Both of these requirements can't be covered by an external mix brush. The paint droplets are too large for the application. Because of the inherent broad spray you don't have the control to give you the close control on narrow lines of paint, nor provide the fine droplet paint needed for small items, like winches. The external mix brush will do large areas (eg hulls) adequately. I wouldn't normally have both types of air brushes. The internal mix brush can do everything the external can do and vastly more and many, many times better.
As to the used air brush compressor, without knowing the brand, the only way to tell if the brush will do what you want it to do is try it. Otherwise, if the brush seems to be made in a quality way (fit, finish and material) you are probably on your way to getting a decent item, but not guaranteed. Also, can you get parts for it if you don't know who the manufacturer is?
John
Also something else to bear in mind is personal tastes/preference
What I use is possibly different to OldIron and others on here. What we find to be nice comfortable brush may not fit as well in your hand and be uncomfortable to use. That's not to say what any of us are using are wrong... just different
Hello again John, your reply No.102 has certainly expanded on and clarified my thoughts re my earlier question of achieving satisfactory results with my external mix brush.
As a beginner to modelling in its entirety, I tend to spray all my 'bits' prior to assembly and so therefore am not (yet!) weathering or trying to pick out fine detail on ready assembled parts or structures. Perhaps wrongly, I envisaged using the brush as a good quality spray gun, if that makes sense. I did actually Spray the hull of my loyal class build with this brush with reasonably pleasing results, but would generally want to limit its use to the smaller single colour structures or parts.
Anyway sorry for interrupting! Am really looking forward to more words of wisdom - this really is a great topic, :-))
kind regards, Tony.
Hi All,
Some of you will remember that I asked if anyone owned or had used one of the many airbrush kits available on ebay. Nobody seemed to be able to give me any info on quality, noise etc so I "bit the bullet" and went ahead and bought this one:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-KIT-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-COMPRESSOR-/370455752491?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_SM&hash=item5640e22f2b
Delivery was very quick - within 3 days and when I unpacked the units I was very pleased with the quality of both the airbrush and the compressor. I have given it a quick trial run and find that the compressor is surprisingly quiet and the airbrush seems easy to use and gives a good finish.
I will be able to tell you more after I have used it a bit more seriously but so far I am very impressed.
Dave
.
John, have you had any experience of the airbrushes here? http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9294 (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9294)
I bought one a few months ago and it seems first class. Being twin action it gives excellent control over paint flow, and is capable of quite fine work. The price, even allowing for freight, is ridiculously low, and the build quality, to my untrained eye, seems very good. You do need your own compressor, though.
Peter.
Hello John, thanks again for a very comprehensive tutorial. :-)) Re your spray booth I can fully understand the logic in mounting the extract fan above the filter hood, but could you explain a little more regarding, quote, "The fan could be mounted under the fume hood to produce a downdraft type of paint booth." In my ignorance I would of thought that this would be the last thing you would want while spraying - you'll no doubt have a logical explanation - (just had to ask!) :embarrassed: Also what type of filter is in the hood and how do you monitor the need to change/replenish?
This is great stuff, looking forward to the next installment. Regards, Tony.
What about the use of non vented / filtered cooker hoods?
Hello John, thanks again for a very comprehensive tutorial. :-)) Re your spray booth I can fully understand the logic in mounting the extract fan above the filter hood, but could you explain a little more regarding, quote, "The fan could be mounted under the fume hood to produce a downdraft type of paint booth." In my ignorance I would of thought that this would be the last thing you would want while spraying - you'll no doubt have a logical explanation - (just had to ask!) :embarrassed: Also what type of filter is in the hood and how do you monitor the need to change/replenish?
This is great stuff, looking forward to the next installment. Regards, Tony.
Another reason for having downdraft over top mounted extraction is as the spray rises the particles may form together and then become too heavy 4 extraction or collect dust particles and do likewise, both been detrimental to achieving a good finish. Another less important yet usefull feature is as the fan and filter are beneath the booth , maintenance is easier.
http://modelpaint.tripod.com/booth2.htm this explains better than i can... hope it helps
Is this post going to cover the surface prep prior to air brushing for the various materials we make our models from, such as GRP, that vac moulded plastic and wood?
Great thread so far, lots of good info.
I was just looking at the Tamiya paints and they come in 10 and 23 ml sizes. (They also offer thinner but I've heard people have used other things to thin the paint for spraying)
How much paint is needed to paint a hull or superstructure? I'm sure the airbrush would use less than brushing but would one jar be enough?
Hull size matters, so roughly a 36" hull for examlple.
Thanks
Thanks John. I assume the acrylic paint would have the least fumes, being water based? It's been a while since I used tamiya paint but do remember getting good results with it.
Tbone
I have tried thinning Acrylics with water but have had problems with surface tension ie the paint tends to form drops on the plastic surface ( I had previously cleaned the surface with surgical spirit). I tried thinning using car windscreen wash, with some some success, but plain water gave me problems. I have always used Tamiya thinners with their paint. Unfortunately, for my current project I couldn't get the colour I wanted so had to use Revell, which is not acrylic.
I was at one of the local hobby shops today and found they carry tamiya, testers and humbrol paints.
I did find out something interesting though. I was thinking of a single action air brush for simplicity but he told me that the dual action could be like a single action as the initial needle position could be set and the button just used to open the air but not move the air. Makes sense, just never thought it would work that way; might start with a dual action in that case. For what it's worth he recommended Iwata brand airbrushes, gravity feed vs bottle and Tamiya paint thinned with windex(of course most of this is personal preference).
On another note I just bought a Graupner Neptun I will be building and I believe the hull is abs. Have you ever used the Krylon Fusion paint as a primer on plastic? Walmart sells it and it's designed for plastic.
Tbone
... I've mentioned my thoughts on cups, which is what a gravity feed will lead you to. For doing models I think you'll find it very restrictive with little latitude for physically moving the brush around as you paint. The Iwata is a fine brand, and the brush you suggest is certainly beyond the starter level........for poster art sort of applications. Also consider availability of parts....
Great tips on here can i just add a couple of problems i get when spraying
How much should i thin Tamiya acrylics to spray as i have used them to spray orange on a lifeboat and it took a huge amount of coats to get a good solid colour.
How do i reduce the ridge of paint when masking is removed? or is that down to getting good colour depth with a thin coat
Dave
Hi thanks for the great reply
Tbone i used a huge amount of paint on my atlantic 21 i enjoyed the easy clean up of water based acrylic but spent alot on Tamiya paint the grey was ok but the orange a nightmare.
What other water based paints are out there any recomendations Oldiron? or i could just go the Halfords rattle can acrylic option
Dave
{:-{ :(( >:-o >>:-( <*< ...Tony ...I think there are many members world wide that are GREEN with envy in looking at such a workshop........ :-)) ....Derek
John spent about an hour this morning going through your post to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Well worth
the time spent and hopefully some of your tips may come in handy for the next build
I think you did a great job which must have taken you quite a time to prepare and type.
Much appreciated
Geoff
what about this?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-cp103-air-brush-compressor-with-reservoir-tank-prod21805/#bottomsection (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-cp103-air-brush-compressor-with-reservoir-tank-prod21805/#bottomsection)
Looking to invest in good airbrush and compressor.
Dan
Thanks John,
I am still looking for the 'perfect' airbrush given the wealth of knowledge you have given us all :-))
Dan
yeah its yet another minefield.
Ive used one before for one little job but it was a cheap nasty thing i got free with model boats mag.
Equally, Id rather not keep on spending money until i find 'the one'. I can get used to it if i do enough of it, surely!?!?!
No rush as yet, so plenty of time to look around.
I would using the brush for airfix models and individual parts on model boats. For hulls etc, I would use the halfords gear.
Dan
Defo going for the axminster compressor, now just what airbrush.
https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=1_9_109&sort=2a&page=1&osCsid=a3e54137c6c1c32cc41aded23d9986aa (https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=1_9_109&sort=2a&page=1&osCsid=a3e54137c6c1c32cc41aded23d9986aa)
Willing to spend sort of £200 on one.
Dan
Hey John!
How you doing sir?
Working on any projects at the moment?
Martin :-)
Hi John
I have seen this air brush the badger 155 on special offerhttp://www.badgerairbrush.com/Anthem_155.asp
is it a good air brush
john
I think the issue most people have is the amount of choice. I for one am bamboozeled at what to buy...
Its kind of like looking for the perfect wife.
John
Got one of those :-)) :-)) :-)) yes she is standing over my shoulder {-) {-) {-)
Did the question of air pressure ever get addressed? If so I missed it in this tutorial. I'd be keen to find out more about this, along the lines of:Regards to all,
- What pressure for what paint type
- Any other factors that need to be taken into account, etc.
Alister.
Hello Oldiron. Just starting out out on this airbrushing thing. The main question from what I can gather, is what, if any, would be the best room/shed temperature?
taff
Thanks for your reply John.
As a matter of curiosity, what happens if you use too much pressure? I think what I've been doing with my Iwata Revolution BCR is using too much air and getting a really thin, low density coat. However I felt I needed the higher air pressure to atomise properly - maybe I wasn't thinning enough - not sure I believe that, but who knows.
I bet it's hard to diagnose this stuff over a forum :)
Regards,
Alister.
well i went bought a different brand of paint (still enamel ) and some enamel spraying thinner ( and it dident clog as much ) striped the gun and then blew 2 cups of thinner through , it is clean
BUT
it looks like to me like the nozzle isn't big enough .3 as you have to have the paint like water ( with no coverage ) it would take an hour to do one coat on the under water part of hull
so i did it with a brush and will rub it back then try the spray again with a .5 nozzel &%$#@#$%&* air brush
is water base any easier to spray ?
clean up would be a lot cheaper
Hello folks, having asked your advice a while back John, I also bought the Badger 200 - the one in the first picture you've posted. I'm well pleased with it O0 :-))
The only thing I can say Oldshrimper is that getting the right paint and viscosity is so important, I've had all the problems you've experienced and more, the difference in using quality paint with very fine pigment for airbrushing is amazing. A friend put me on to this paint, not cheap but a good size bottle, limited in colour range but I tried it in desperation. A quick shake, into the paint pot & spray - absolutely amazing results!! no clinical settings neede on the brush. gave me the heart to carry on
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/inspire-airbrush-base (http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/inspire-airbrush-base) Regards, Tony.
well i think i have sorted out my problem
the NIB on my brush was not all the way home ( hard up on the O ring ? and was tight in the thread ) fixed that up and now it sprays like a bought one
probably[size=78%] a good idea to strip the brush and [/size]resemble[size=78%] it before you use it, just watch for the little trigger [/size]rockerthingy[size=78%] falling out A %$#@#$% to get back in [/size]
lesson learnt
cheers Bob
Mods.... can this be made sticky?
(https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/_/rsrc/1309653757537/badger-350/350%20kit.jpg)