Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: Popeye on April 19, 2012, 11:16:20 AM

Title: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 19, 2012, 11:16:20 AM
Post  1

INTRODUCTION.
HMS Thames is based on ‘Supply’, a Deptford (London) yard transport built on the Thames in 1759. After spending 28 years on fleet supply duties  she was re-fitted to serve as the naval tender and armed escort to the first convict fleet to sail for Australia..

Supply proved to so fast that the Fleet’s commanding officer, dissatisfied with the performance of his flagship ‘Sirius’, transferred to Supply thereby making the Fleet’s oldest and smallest  craft  his flagship.

She led the Fleet into Port Jackson, later to become Sydney, thereby establishing the first British settlement in Australia, an event commemorated by the depiction of the brig on  Australia’s bicentennial $10 note. ‘Supply’ continued to serve the infant colony until 1798 when she was classed as unseaworthy, and ended her days as a storeship until being broken up in 1807.

What Scale?
I would have preferred to build the model to 1:24 scale, but an estimated weight of 75lbs – 80lbs  convinced me that 1:32 scale and a  weight of  27lbs -30 lbs would be much kinder on my back and less likely to result in a hernia.
Scale: 1:32
Length:- Waterline: 875mm/34.5” Overall (stern post to bowsprit): 1254mm/49.4”,
Beam:: 240mm/9.45”
Height:  (keel to Mainmast Bob): 927mm/36.5”
Draft: (excluding bolt-on fin) 114.3mm/4.5”

To be continued………………………..
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on April 19, 2012, 01:28:53 PM
Very very nice!
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: dreadnought72 on April 19, 2012, 01:34:37 PM
^ What Jerry said!

How well does she sail? Can we have some info regarding the sheeting/winching arrangements, please?

Andy
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: tt1 on April 19, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
What a lovely model, well done you  O0 nice to see something a little different.

                           Regrads, Tony.
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 22, 2012, 03:23:04 PM
^ What Jerry said!

How well does she sail? Can we have some info regarding the sheeting/winching arrangements, please?

Andy

All will be revealed in due course (in future posts) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: triumphjon on April 22, 2012, 03:43:25 PM
very nice , is she just sail , or have you got motor assistance ?
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: pettyofficernick on April 22, 2012, 06:54:13 PM
A nice ship indeed, but how did you do it? :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: tigertiger on April 23, 2012, 08:25:12 AM
Very nice indeed
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 23, 2012, 10:33:38 AM
Post  2.

PREPARATORY WORK.
It was anticipated from the outset that access into the hull and space therein would be somewhat cramped as a result of which important decisions had to be made concerning (1) servo positions, sheet runs, fairlead exits and battery locations, (2) stability and ballasting (3) ) auxiliary propulsion) and (4) location of bolt-on fin.
 
Servos locations. A test rig (The Bird Cage)  was fabricated in order to experiment with sail control options. Lever arm servos (Hitec HS815BB for yards, HS765HB for Driver, Staysail and Jib) were tried in various positions to determine  their optimum positions and associated line (sheet) runs, angles and deck fairlead exits. When satisfied that I had a layout that would work well in practice, card deck templates – Poop, Main and Quarterdeck – were laid in their respective locations  to ensure that the  servos,  batteries etc., would be easily accessible through the deck  openings The relevant locations and measurements were recorded for eventual transfer to the building board.

Some readers may consider this rigmarole unnecessary but I enjoyed this phase of the project and, in any event, it was better than watching ‘Deadenders’ and all the other TV rubbish that spouses seem to thrive on. The biggest bonus however, which co-incidentally earned me Brownie points (to be used at some future time when relegated to the matrimonial Sin Bin >>:-(), was that I kept my  promise to SWMBO to give modelling a rest – messing about with bits of wood and string ain’t exactly modelling, is it! ;)

To be continued…………………………..
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 23, 2012, 01:06:30 PM
Post 3

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Servos locations (continued)
The ‘birdcage is decked over to ensure innards can be got at without too much scraping of knuckles.

A rough sketch of the final sail control system is shewn at Photo 6

To be continued……………………
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: rmaddock on April 23, 2012, 04:39:09 PM
Gosh  :o you're so organised and prepared. I wish I planned that far ahead.

Did your other half fall for this not classing as modelling?
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 23, 2012, 05:07:47 PM
Gosh  :o you're so organised and prepared. I wish I planned that far ahead.

Did your other half fall for this not classing as modelling?

It'a part of what especially attracts me to the hobby:- research, planning, execution, problem solving finishing and finally play time :}

In truth I have few problems from SWMBO - or thinks she should - particularly when the prospect of Deadenders, Casualty, yarda yarda yarda, looms over the Ether. ;)

But if all else fails I revert to the old addage - 'Nil illegitamus despairandum carborundam' You can work this out for yourself if you're not already familiar {-)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 24, 2012, 11:47:16 AM
Post 4

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Stability and ballast. A detachable lead filled fin  offered  the best means of providing stability under sail whilst  bringing the high displacement hull down to its plan waterline. Additionally, the ability to remove the fin would enable the hulls’ weight to be light enough to facilitate ease of handling and transportation

To be continued…………..
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 24, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
Post 5.

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Fin location The location of the fin was ascertained by aligning the perpendiculars of the  hull’s  underwater area Centre of Lateral Resistance (CLR) with that of the fin. The CLR’s perpendicular lay approximately ½” aft of the sail plan’s Centre of Effort (CoE), which satisfied me that the model was unlikely to suffer excessively from either Weather or Lee helm. 

Three pair of holes would be provided in the keel to accommodate the fin, one pair at its CLR position  with another pair each side  of the former, to cater for the repositioning should  the model be found ,in practice,  to suffer from excessive Weather or Lee helm.


To be continued…………………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 25, 2012, 10:26:14 AM
Post 6

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Auxiliary propulsion. The major limitation of yachts and other sailing craft- in addition to having to cope with fickleness of wind conditions -  is their uncanny attraction to overhanging trees, reed-beds or other sundry boat traps, sometimes irrespective of  the helmsmans best efforts to the contrary.

A small electric motor was installed in my most recent model, a Grand Banks schooner, and the ability to use power  as a last resort  to get out of trouble proved so useful that I decided to motorise the brig,  despite the fact that a propeller would detract from the models’ scale appearance – though only below the waterline where it would not normally be visible.. Furthermore, because a motor was required for emergency steerage use only I saw no benefit from having either a reversing function or proportional speed control, and therefor limited it to ‘Ahead’ mode only, activated via a latched switcher in preference to an ESC.

To be continued…………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 25, 2012, 04:18:14 PM
Post  7

HULL.
The following materials were used for the hull’s  ‘plank on frame’ construction: frames - hard balsa,  keel/sternpost/stempost  - Tulip wood,  planking – Cedar, sub-deck –birch ply, planking - lime.

Aliphatic resin (Titebond Premium Wood Glue) was the principal adhesive used for the hull’s fabrication, although cyano and Araldite were also used in moderation.

The prospect of cutting 24 frames from a large sheet of ply was too daunting for my liking so I fabricated them from two laminations of 6.5mm hard balsa. Frame sections were photo copied from the Plan to the required scale, then cut and pasted to slightly oversized ‘U’ shaped balsa  blanks which were trimmed to size. Notches were cut to accommodate the keel, inwhales and servo support battens before the frames, inclusive of ‘shadows’ were mounted, inverted, on the building board .

To be continued......
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: dave301bounty on April 25, 2012, 07:28:26 PM
What a grand looking vessel and the way you are building her .I am very interested ,will watch your build ,thanks for showing .
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Brooks22 on April 28, 2012, 12:45:48 AM
She came out beautiful, Popeye. Wonderful to see her on the water. Well Done!

I'm interested in that you could align the static CLR and static CE and get a balanced boat. Neat, old-style way of determining the CE location for the complicated sail plan.

I'd have said that you'd have to  calculate the dynamic values, and align them. The dynamic CLR values would be at the 1/4 chord point: for the hull and fin you'd find them  halfway between the statics and the leading edge (bow of hull, and leading edge of the fin). The dynamic CE values would also be found forward of the statics at the 1/4 chord  point. Finding them would be more involved since each set of sails would need a separate adjustment, then the whole would be summed, weighted by sail area. I don't know how you could simply use the static CE that you found to then find the dynamic.

At any rate, your method worked, and that's all that really counts :-).
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 29, 2012, 05:46:09 PM
She came out beautiful, Popeye. Wonderful to see her on the water. Well Done!

I'm interested in that you could align the static CLR and static CE and get a balanced boat. Neat, old-style way of determining the CE location for the complicated sail plan.

At any rate, your method worked, and that's all that really counts :-).

Ahoy Brooks,

Many thanks for your comments.

To date, the brig's only been sailed once in a light breeze (too cold, wet and miserable to warrant more trips to the lake until Spring )  so only time will tell how well she will perform in a 'blow'. Initial results could  have been pure luck, though I'm satisfied with the efficacy of the method which was also used very successfully on my Grand Banks schooner 'Maine Chance' (see earlier MBM  thread). She sails beautifully 'hands off', so it'll also be adopted in respect of my next project - a 1:24 scale staysail Thames Barge
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on April 29, 2012, 07:18:51 PM
So you've got a Thames Theme going here then?
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 29, 2012, 08:22:55 PM
So you've got a Thames Theme going here then?

The secret's out though it's a little less obvious than would first appear coz:- (a) I now name all my models after the UK river on which the original subject was built eg., .the brig was based on a Thames built vessel and (b) I'm a Londoner born within the sound of Bow Bells and am particularly fond of Thames barges (which were built on numerous UK East Coast rivers), one of which I used to help sail as former member of the Thames Barge Trust.

I have one dilemma which as yet remains unresolved - what do I do if, in the future,  I decide to build another  model based on a vessel that was also constructed on the same river? Methinks the obvious solution is to choose another river! {-)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: triumphjon on April 30, 2012, 07:36:34 AM
start naming after towns / suburbs of the city along the thames ? my own big sailer 1/12th scale is based on an essex oyster smack from around 1920 , which is gaff rigged . thatsa very nice model you have there ! jon
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 30, 2012, 11:07:21 AM
Post 8.

HULL (continued)
The hull was planked with  3/8th x 1/8th  cedar to bulwark capping height.

The first two frame spaces at both bow and stern were  filled with pre-shaped block balsa in order to provide better adhesion at these high stress areas where planks are subject to the most extreme curves.

Pairs of planks were softened in an ammonia* bath, quickly rinsed then pinned in position - one each side to reduce the risk of warping the hull - until dry, after which they were removed, trimmed to exact fit then glued in position.  An abundance of small ‘G’ clamps, pegs, rubber bands plus a willingness to resort to the occasional use of basic Anglo-Saxon, are essential prerequisites for this task.

Ammonia has a tendency to discolour and/or darken wood, so don’t  use it if a natural finish is required

On completion of planking the hull was rubbed down then  sheathed in fine grade GRP tissue followed by several more coats of GRP resin before being removed from the building board.

* Safety note. Ammonia should be used with extreme caution. Always use in the open air, wear safety goggles and rubber gloves and wash hands thoroughly after use.

To be continued…………………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 30, 2012, 11:17:38 AM
Post 8.

HULL (continued)

Pairs of planks were softened in an ammonia bath,

Post 8 (continued)

Photo 16 came out fuzzy so I'll try again. :-))
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 30, 2012, 12:56:57 PM
Post 9

HULL (continued)
Fitting out of the deck fairlead doublers, motor bed, mast steps, rudder tube, stern tube and cambered deck beams followed, after which frame ‘shadows’ were removed down to the inwale step thereby exposing the full length planked bulwarks. The sacrificial balsa frames were removed before the hulls'[ interior was given several coats of GRP resin to further strengthen the hull internally and to ensure that it was fully waterproof.

The ply sub-deck and hatch lids were glued in position

To be continued………
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on April 30, 2012, 06:43:16 PM
Post  10.

HULL (continued)
Several coats of Primer filler were applied to the hull after the deck was planked, each preceding coat being cut back to the GRP skin until all depressions and high points were obliterated. Rubbing strakes, head timbers and gunwale rails were then fitted in readiness for spraying.

To be continued………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 02, 2012, 08:31:44 PM
Post 11.

Hull (continued)
Fittings and other fiddly bits were fabricated  and set aside in readiness for  fitting out. (Photos taken after completion of model)

To be continued………
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 02, 2012, 08:54:23 PM
Post 12.

Hull (continued)
More fitting.

To be continued………
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Thelegos on May 02, 2012, 09:27:39 PM
This is excellent, I've been reading up on hull construction and yachts / sailing ships and had no real idea how much is involved until fairly recently! You have great skill, it's a beautiful boat.

Roger
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 03, 2012, 10:54:42 AM
Post 13.

Hull (continued).
More fittings.

To be continued…………………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 03, 2012, 08:01:40 PM
Post 14.

Hull (continued).
Fiddly bits in abundance.

To be continued………………………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on May 03, 2012, 08:25:49 PM
Amen to "fiddly bits in abundance!"
 :-))
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 07, 2012, 04:43:39 PM
Post 15

Hull (continued).
And yet more fiddly bits.

To be continued……….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 07, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Post 16.

Hull (continued).
And a few more, but fortunately the last of this 'Hull' batch!.

To be continued……….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 07, 2012, 04:56:04 PM
Post 16.

Hull (continued).
And a few more, but fortunately the last of this 'Hull' batch!.


Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on May 08, 2012, 10:14:49 AM
Very nice little vessel (I won't say ship as ships have 3 or more masts and are square rigged on all) She will make a smashing Prize for the Black Fleet
So clean and pristine
Black Jim
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 08, 2012, 01:41:58 PM
Very nice little vessel (I won't say ship as ships have 3 or more masts and are square rigged on all) She will make a smashing Prize for the Black Fleet
So clean and pristine
Black Jim

Hope Freebooter's  got sufficient spare hands to form a Prize crew coz you'll need 'em when I  enter your home waters in the near future (when it's warmer!) {-)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 08, 2012, 01:50:21 PM
Post 17.

HEAD TIMBERS.
The head timbers and anchor cranes were laminated separately then joined together after I was satisfied that they fitted snugly on both bow and poopdeck.

To be continued.............
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 08, 2012, 02:09:15 PM
Post 18.

HEAD TIMBERS (continued).

To be continued……….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 09, 2012, 03:42:19 PM
Post 19.

DECK.
A 3mm ply sub-deck was overlaid with lime stripwood (5mm x 1.5mm) which was then covered with GRP wing tissue. Care was taken to ensure that the planking on the removable hatches was accurately aligned with adjacent deck planks to ensure that hatch openings were well camouflaged. Caulking was  simulated by running a permanent black marker along the plank edges (plank ends were first sealed with clear dope to prevent the black stain ‘creeping’ along the grain).

To be continued………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 14, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
Post 20.

MASTS & SPARS.
Pine dowel of various diameters was used for all masts and spars. Main and fore masts were stepped in the keel and are removable  should the need arise. Topgallant and topmasts can be lowered to enable the models overall  height to be reduced for easier transportation.

T’gallant and topsail yards can be lowered for reefing and the spritsail can also be easily removed should the need arise..

The jiboom and bowsprit are retractable to provide some ‘give’ in the event of a front end impact.


To be continued…………..
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on May 14, 2012, 04:09:25 PM
I just wish the images were larger - they're at the point where squinting isn't helping.

Have you considered putting together a proper article for a modeling-zine like Seaways or Model Boat (they'll want larger images too).  :)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 14, 2012, 04:16:43 PM
Post 21

RIGGING. Rigging was simplified as much as possible in line with the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), ‘though there was still far too much to contend with for my liking. The abundance of running rigging, essential if the sails are to controlled effectively  is, unfortunately, the price to pay if one wants to build a working square rigger.

Standing rigging comprised various sizes of ‘Cardoc’ laid cotton bricklayer’s line which was stained black with diluted Indian Ink after first being  boiled then hung to dry under slight tension. A total of 98 deadeyes of differing diameters were  used for the standing rigging whilst a mind and finger  numbing 896  bowlines were tied on the ratlines.

To be continued……….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 14, 2012, 05:24:43 PM
I just wish the images were larger - they're at the point where squinting isn't helping.

Photo attachments

Hi Jerry,
Many thanks for your comments.

Apologies for the diminutive size of most of my photos, the originalsl of which  have been downsized to comply with the maximum 161Kb per post for attachments 'though I've seen much larger photos on some threads - which I'm sure must exceed the 161Kb maximum. I haven't a clue how to achieve a similar result therefor if there is a method which is acceptable to MBM I'd welcome guidance on how to do it.

I'm a luddite when it comes to all things 'computer' as a result of which any guidance offered would need to be in Idiot Speak %). If it helps, I'm running MS '7' and have recently downloaded  'Drop Box'  though I haven't yet tried to use it :D

Regards to all Browsers.
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on May 14, 2012, 05:36:45 PM
Typically you click "Add image to post" above the box you type the message in.  This should bring up a "pop-up" box for Postimage.org where you select "Many Images," browse to select the images you want, a couple of times if they're in different folders; mark them as "family safe" unless the figurehead is a bit risque.  The message gets a thumbnail that can be clicked on to open the full sized image, like so....

(http://s16.postimage.org/hrk9brbld/olivia_wilde_1440x900.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hrk9brbld/)
Olivia Wilde plays Thirteen on House
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: daveh on May 14, 2012, 07:05:50 PM
stunning detail popeye
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 14, 2012, 09:57:25 PM
Post 23.

RIGGING (continued)
Running rigging comprised 0.7mm and 1.0mm braided Dacron which was stained with Ronseal Medium Oak wood stain. Scores of bowsies were needed to facilitate the adjustment of a multitude of halyards, braces, lifts, sheets, pendants  etc..

To be continued……………..

(http://s15.postimage.org/wuarysjhj/58_Brass_head_of_T_gallant_mast_securing_pin_i.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wuarysjhj/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/ho4q7utgn/59_Brass_head_of_Topmast_securing_pin_is_just_v.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ho4q7utgn/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/tra1vf4iv/60_Braces_from_deck_thru_snatch_blocks_to_op.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tra1vf4iv/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/jvdk9io4n/60_Fighting_tops.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jvdk9io4n/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 14, 2012, 10:16:00 PM
Typically you click "Add image to post" above the box you type the message in.  This should bring up a "pop-up" box for Postimage.org
(http://s16.postimage.org/hrk9brbld/olivia_wilde_1440x900.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hrk9brbld/)

Ahoy Jerry,
Eureka -it worked .

Hopefully pics remaining to be attached will be much clearer thanks to your guidance

Many thanks & regards,

Popeye

PS. If anyone wants a clearer version of what's already been submitted let me have the pic number and I'll oblige pronto :-))
(http://s7.postimage.org/mr0rajrtz/mr25_0003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mr0rajrtz/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 15, 2012, 02:28:29 PM
Post 23/24.

SAILS.
Sails were made from  lightweight 100% cotton gabardine which was repeatedly boiled , then exposed to the elements for several days before being boiled again in very weak tea (Yorkshire variety – the best there is) until the desired shade of canvas was achieved.

All sails were boltroped. and can be reefed or furled should conditions so warrant.

To be continued……………

Click image to enlarge.
(http://s18.postimage.org/g7qd66i6d/62_Spritsail_can_be_easily_removed.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/drojsc03p/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/bbmqehi11/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/n3f731211/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/i61mhx01x/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Netleyned on May 15, 2012, 02:36:06 PM
Clicking on the images just gets me the Postimage upload page. BTW the test image worked ok

Ned
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 15, 2012, 02:38:53 PM
Post 23/24.

SAILS.


Post 23/24  repeat.

Methinks I made a boo-boo with the previous posts' photos so I'll try again. Sorry about that.

Click images to enlarge.


(http://s14.postimage.org/rhs9st4kt/62_Spritsail_can_be_easily_removed.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rhs9st4kt/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/mo8iny831/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mo8iny831/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/6emxysmst/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6emxysmst/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/ukxl9x8x9/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ukxl9x8x9/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/43ovumc19/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/43ovumc19/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Netleyned on May 15, 2012, 02:47:28 PM
That's Great Popeye.
You can really see how much work has gone into the rigging.
And thats the KISS version  :-)) :-))
I wish I had the patience to do that sort of detail.

Ned
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on May 15, 2012, 02:50:00 PM
Great photos Popeye - now I can see 'em!  :)

She's so neat and clean - sharp as a tack.

Did you do anything in particular about the foot of the fore-corse?  Some folks put wire or plastic rod in the bottom hem to act as a Bentick yard so the sail will set better when sailing on the wind without curing back on itself.
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 15, 2012, 05:32:44 PM

Did you do anything in particular about the foot of the fore-corse?  Some folks put wire or plastic rod in the bottom hem to act as a Bentick yard so the sail will set better when sailing on the wind without curing back on itself.

Negative, though I have this in mind as a retro-fit should  extended sea trials so warrant.. 
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 16, 2012, 10:03:08 AM
Post 25.

PAINTWORK.
All woodwork  - with the exception of the decks – was first sprayed with Halfords acrylic primer followed by top coating with good ol’ Halfords acrylic car sprays. The natural state of these finishes was too glossy for my liking as a result of which everything, including the resin sealed deck, was over-sprayed with  Humbrol   Matt Acrylic  varnish which gave the final result a far more realistic look in keeping with the models’ scale and purpose in life:-

Masts, Bowsprit, Jiboom – Vauxhall Gazelle Beige
Spars, Tops, Gunwale rails, Hatches – Black
Bulkheads and inner bulwarks – Peugot Cherry
Transom – Ford Blue
Above waterline - Black  and Primer Filler Yellow Ochre
Below waterline -  Polar White

To be continued………….
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 16, 2012, 10:12:20 AM
Post 26.

BALLAST.
The completed model including sails, servos, motor, batteries etc., weighed 10lbs. and test tank trials determined that a further 17lbs. ballast would be required to bring it down to within 1/8”’ of its’ waterline. The bolt – on fin (Post 4) weighed in at 13lbs when filled with No. 6 Buckshot  and the remaining 3lbs. was accounted for by moulding sixteen (16) x 4oz. lead billets which were placed in the hulls’ bottom between what remained of the balsa frames. A small wire loop was set into the top of each billet to facilitate positioning /retrieval.

To be continued………


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(http://s17.postimage.org/4d0727lmz/68_Internal_ballast_billet_in_mould.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4d0727lmz/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/78da92pmz/69_Billet_removed_from_mould.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/78da92pmz/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/4gu0igr4b/70_Finished_billets_Wire_loops_aid_positioning.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4gu0igr4b/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 17, 2012, 09:30:21 AM
POST 27.

CREW.
The resin moulded crew were pressed into service from a local toy shop. Weapons and sundry  accoutrements  were confiscated, and some limbs repositioned, before the motley crew were kitted out  (repainted) by the Bosun.  Bilgerats can be beached at will  if in danger of entanglement in the running rigging!

To be continued………


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(http://s14.postimage.org/e0gkef0b1/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/e0gkef0b1/)
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 17, 2012, 04:18:29 PM
Post 28.

TECHNICAL STUFF.
Auxiliary  propulsion:
Motor: 545 type low drain activated via latched Switcher
Propeller: 45mm, four bladed brass. Direct drive via 4mm prop shaft incorporating oiling tube

Electrics & Radio
Radio: Futaba   2.4gHz six channel radio configured as follows:-
Left stick vertical axis - Forecourses                   
Right stick vertical axis = Maincourses
Right stick horizontal axis – Rudder
Right Auxiliary switch (Flaps) – Motor (ahead only)
Left auxiliary (Undercarriage) switch -  Jib, Staysail and Driver (Mainsail)

Batteries:
Rx and servos – 3700mAh Mnh
Motor – 3700mAh Mn

To be continued............
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Popeye on May 18, 2012, 12:42:21 PM
Post  29.

ANATOMY OF A MODELLING PROJECT.
My previous sailing models have been conventionally rigged vintage sailing craft though I’ve always been attracted to the beauty of square riggers and the nostalgia they evoke.. However, having no previous experience of square riggers I boned up on the  subject by referring  to model magazines, MBM and RC Groups (USA)  forums and numerous books - including the following principal publications - before committing myself to the building board:-.
Rigging Period Ship Models………….Lennarth Petersson………….ISBN 978.1.86176.061.6     
Planking Techniques for Model Ship Builders…Donald Dressel…… ISBN 978.0.8306.2868.1
Building a Working Model Warship (HMS Warrior 1860)…..William Mowll…. ISBN 1.86176.041.8
Scale Model Sailing Ships……John Bowen (Ed)………ISBN 0.85177.111.4 

Rigging Period Ship Models in particular, with more than 200 detailed and crystal clear diagrams  relating to all aspects of rigging, was an  indispensable  source of information and is a must for anyone  tempted to scratch build a working square rigger.
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(http://s13.postimage.org/o43woff2r/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/o43woff2r/)

I was prompted to build Thames in particular,  as a result of reading  a short article about HMS Supply, published in Model Shipwright (No.95 March 1996).  A beautifully drawn plan accompanied the article and formed the basis for the construction of my model.

What subsequently transpired is, to coin a phrase, history.

END. :-)


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Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on May 22, 2012, 10:47:56 AM
Wire, plastic and Benedict yards to my eye look awful ,they distort the sail and make t look unnatural look at any photos of replica ships running and you will find the forecourse bellows out from the yard And lifts the bow this is the only sail that has so much lift but with wire,plastic ,or a Benedict  it takes up the wrong shape and acts as a depressing sail which in a decent breeze can bury the bow and in extream cases can cause the ship to gripe (Lift the rudder out of the water) and broach too or capsize
Jimmy James
Master Mariner
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Brooks22 on May 23, 2012, 01:46:37 PM
Jimmy, it's possible to get the billow and lift with Bentink booms. It depends on how the fore course is attached to the Bentinck boom, and how the boom is attached to the mast. If either attachment is too snug, then the sail is flattened. My booms, for example, are loosely attached to the mast with a rubberband. This allows billowing and lifting. I've never had a bow bury, and I've sailed my Pamir in winds from zephrs to scale gales :-).

Boyle, 1930's deepwater sailor and squarerig modeler, was of the opinion that duplicating real practice was silly if the modeler could improve the aerodynamics (he did not call it aerodynamics, of course). He liked flat sails and Bentinck booms because they increased the ability to work to windward. I like the same. 

Boyle took pride in the prizes his squareriggers won when competing against model sloops. In those pre-RC days, the ability of a skipper to trim his vessel to follow a set course was important (points were awarded for making a specific landfall, along with points for speed).  The sloops he competed against were faster than his squareriggers, but sailed a more erratic course.

But each modeler is able to choose which part of the hobby is most important to himself, of course.
Title: Of Course
Post by: JerryTodd on May 23, 2012, 02:55:04 PM
Looking at Thames, I don't get the impression that Popeye is following Boyle's philosophy.

A model's ability to work to windward is paramount.  We don't sail them on trade-winds for days and weeks at a time, or even hours - we dart around the pond like squirrels at play, holding a course for minutes at most, and most of the time, our model is clawing it's way up wind before it finds itself in the fescue at the lee end of the pond.

A narrow thin strip of styrene, or trimmer string, inside the foot of loose footed squares, stiffens them enough so they don't try to roll their clews in yet is flexible enough for the sails to "belly", they're a bit like those plastic strips in the collar points of better shirts.  Functional tacks should be employed, even if they're just elastic pulling against the controlled sheets.  You could just keep the courses furled and avoid the entire issue.
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on May 24, 2012, 05:31:29 PM
The match of HBMS THAMES and the PRIVETEER FREE BOOTER was a foregone conclusion despite THAMES much vaulted crew, this Lubberly lot were so out gunned & out sailed by the vastly more experanced FREE BOOTER that she took pity on them, Gave them some lessions in sailing helped re-rigg this pretty little vessel (Scrapped the Benedict Yards) she sailed much better ) Kicked her in the back side and told her to come back next year when she had some sea time and with some real seaman on board
JIMMY JAMES MASTER
of FREE BOOTER
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on May 25, 2012, 08:13:47 AM
Trying Again to post photos
(http://s16.postimage.org/qr27kb1r5/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qr27kb1r5/)

(http://s8.postimage.org/t1fjszbpd/b10.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t1fjszbpd/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/yy6gwcd1x/b12.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yy6gwcd1x/)PLEASE NOTE THE LOVELY SHAPE OF THE FORE COURSE WITH BENIDECT REMOVED
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on May 25, 2012, 08:27:03 AM
To Rear Admiral PopEye( Admral of the Yellow) Nice Vessel Lubbery Crew looking forward to a rematch
when your crew get more sea time

Jimmy De Freebooter
(http://s13.postimage.org/sccvy7u8j/Fb2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sccvy7u8j/)

Free Booter waiting on station...
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on June 09, 2012, 04:00:11 PM
Freebooter Darting in for de kill
(http://s16.postimage.org/t2xxxavlt/Freebooter3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t2xxxavlt/)
  :-)) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D %% %% %% %% %%
Jimmy
Title: Freebooter
Post by: JerryTodd on June 09, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
From the looks of it, I'd say it kills using the combined smell of fish and feet.
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on June 10, 2012, 11:31:07 PM
Jerry
If you've been on a small sailing ship with a large crew in heavy W/x I cannot Dineay it gets a bit whiffey down below, but as for her Fighting & Sailing ability I'd say that would be down to the training and sea time (14 years) that this crew and Her Master (55 years) has and the 5 long nines & 8 X 12 pounder cannonades that have more often than not have added their weight to the argument ...But ..if you would like to try your luck I'll more than likely be at Wicksteed again this year .... If your delicate nose can stand the smell of a real fighting ship.
Jimmy
Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: JerryTodd on June 11, 2012, 05:03:38 AM
Oh Jimmy, I so wish I could fly over the pond and take you up on that challenge.  If my lottery pension plan pays off, I promise publicly, here and now, that will be at the very top of my list.


Title: Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
Post by: Jimmy James on June 11, 2012, 09:23:58 AM
Jerry
Enough said, My Crew my Ship and and myself are at  your command,,,, but don't leave it too long as I am well past my allotted 3 score and ten
Jimmy
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