Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: warspite on March 13, 2015, 03:22:05 pm
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Decided a couple of months ago to buy another Victory, this time I want to make it work, 1. by not having it fitted with a underwater fin or motor, ideally all the weight inside and the mast a lot lighter than previously to reduce the counterbalance effect, sails would probably be furled but for those at deck level.
Just need advice for the best way to do this, yes, all weight at the lowest point and equally distributed, lightest servo(s) to pull the sails left and right etc, was actually thinking of using the kits masts with 1-1.5mm brass tube bonded to it to give some strength.
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I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.
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well I am relenting and showing a photo of the ship in the test tank, it has the fin fitted and is cumbersome to fit and remove, ideally I would prefer to remove it completely, so that is why I am looking into reducing the weight topside.
It took nearly 250-300g to work at the length it is, she's sailed only once with this fin, and although it did work the weather was 1. too cold and 2. not enough of a breeze to give the results needed to see if it worked correctly, a gust did give the chance of working but it went into reverse.
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I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.
The vessel shown is what I call the 'Royal Soveriegn', after looking at the names of 100 gun ships of the line - decided to call this the least inocuious named vessel, it is a Airfix 1:180 scale plastic kit, with a keel fin weighing about 250-300g painted black.
the kit is generally built with all but the mast sections and ports closed - in fact the 'crew' is actually constructed from the guns :D , the masts are constructed from brass tube and rod, the weights did not really seem that excessive when completed, the bow sprit and a couple of davits are in brass to ensure their survivability in normal use.
Masts are sections built up from different diameters of brass tube soldered together, the spars are again sections of brass tube based on the diameter of the plastic spars and are passed through the masts and soldered together, the for and main mast are connected together using aircraft 2mm rod linkage connected to a standard sized servo (it's what was in stock), the rudder is a micro servo as is the receiver, a hitec feather.
as stated i want to build this one so that all the weight is inside the vessel so obviously the masts have to be lightened, the existing masts are really not straight enough or strong enough to be used, i think it would not take much to deform them in use, strengthing them with brass rod might be possible though hiding this could be interesting. the spars would be an interesting problem, how to incorporate brass rod or tube into a small section of plastic
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Re examined the original masts from the kit, other than the top sections being a little flimsy for my liking, they would still be acceptable for furled sails at the tops and the main and middle ones still operating, the bowsprit would be brass again to take knocks.
The sails would have to be fitted differently, definitely sew an overlocker stitch along the edges to make it neater, but not sure if it would detract from the effect as the stitch would be bigger than scale - plus I don't sew.
Getting back to the masts, the only odd thing is to make the rotating part of it flush with the deck and then it shaped to accept the existing plastic profile, so that if it does break it can be replaced with the spare set or a completely redesigned version in a tougher material.
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I use wooden dowels for masts and spars. Wood is light and stiff, making it better for spars than plastic or brass. I find that a weighted fin keel is a necessity. It's easy to rc the braces, probably easier than rotation of masts.
Here are a couple threads that may give you ideas:
Meatbomber's footy brigantine:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1110506
My topsail schooner w/braces for topsail and sheets for mainsail:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1071509
Hope this helps. Email me at bkmart@hotmail.com if you have questions.
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For masts, dowels are good. If you can find a softwood dowel, or make them, these may be better than hardwood. Hardwoods can be brittle and have less flex in them than softwoods. Softwoods have some flex and are more able to take the strain without snapping.
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Here is the fore main and mizzen created for Soveriegn - IN BRASS - there weights were that excessive really, what I am trying to do is shift that weight prodimently inside the vessel to reduce the keel fin, the plastic actual masts for the vessel are about - at a guess - 10% of the weight, when you add the sails and thread etc, maybe another 5% - the bowsprite was 22g, the foremast 33g, the main mast 39g and the mizzen 50g, these weights included sails and in the case of the mizzen took the feather receiver and hitec servo into account.
dowel would be similar to what I did in brass, where the detail of the kit would detract, it looks like I need to put the hull together with the changes for supporting/sealing the deck, and install the kits masts, then adding the weight in the hull to see if I can get it to stay upright - after the servo, battery and receiver.
There's not a lot of room to remove the battery, so that is situated at the rear, but the removal of the engine as found on the sovereign will help with that.
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Is the keel fin going to be removable? If not I suggest you make it so, in order that you can replace it with a longer or heavier one if needed.
With a boat of such a small scale, you really can't get away without one. Even if you used platinum (twice the weight of lead by vol) as ballast.
When designing the keel and bulb, think about the waters you will sail it in. The main consideration is weeds, as it will affect the placement of the keel bulb, and this will affect the keel fin design.
There is info on keel design and build in this book http://gb.trapletshop.com/an-introduction-to-radio-controlled-scale-sailing-models-by-phillip-vaughan-williams it is half price at the moment, but you might also try the library service.
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The original vessel sovereign - shown above - has a 250-300g keel fin that is removable, on you tube, someone built a wasa and sailed it in their swimming pool, using just a couple of coins as ballast.
This vessel is attempt number two, using the original masts and an attempt to lose the keel fin, whose depth is - yes - a weed trap.
if in the end a keel fin is needed, i just will have to figure out a way of fitting one that is not as bad as sovereigns.
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Well I am resurrecting this again, so to get into it I am making the crew, first of the officer and men of the marines, first the officer and then all present and correct the men, quality of the web cam is rubbish so will have to take phone pictures - plus they will look better with paint on them.
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just another 109 crew members to go :D
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have you thought about making the masts out of carbon fiber rod? also the sails could be made of silk or ripstop nylon.
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I agree with Klunk about the masts & yards, the mast on my Micro Magic is 5mm o/d carbon fibre tube & it can stand
a fair gust without problem.
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Never considered it to be honest, thing is I want to use the original kits masts, with all the detail etc., as mentioned above, there is not a lot of pressure exerted, depending on the weight of the final model, the issue I have been racking my brain over in the last week, is, how do I keep the mast solid (using the same holes the kit uses but adjust the spars with cord, obviously with the mast adjusted to have a 'U' clip staple inserted at the spars height then the spar has a 'U' clip inserted on top so that with sufficient clearance it doesn't allow the spar to move left or right in sliding out of the mast clip, so acts like a locking mechanism, but with sufficient clearance on the mast clip it allows the spar to rotate backwards and forwards about the mast, the sketch is to explain it, the dark u clip is the lock on the spar the white clip is through the mast.
Next would be how to adjust the spars by cord, the foremast and main mast main spars would be connected using cord so when one is turned the other turns (the length of the foremast would be the distance between the connections on the main mast spar so they turn the same), as would the middle spars on the foremast and main mast, again linked to allow them turn at the same rate.
The issue is turning them, so the solution I have thought might work is to run cords from the linkages on the foremast main and middle spar to the main mast at the side of the mast and then run them down the mast, under the deck to say a sail winch, now the obvious thing is that the distances are wrong so the link on the foremast main spar has to be at the distance of the middle foremast spar, then both will run the same distance and therefore run round the winch, both would then run up through the deck to the same point on the other side of the main mast and onto the foremast spars - phew that was long winded.
Now - how to turn them through 90 degrees, hhmm, see if I can flare out the ends of some plastic tube or chamfer the inside so no sharp edge, then heat it and bend it to create tubular bends, 4 off, two for the main and two for the middle spars, hide them under the flat areas when the masts change section, same for through the deck to the inside.
Is this a good way of doing it, the scale is miniscule and I don't know if its feasible - ever since the purest didn't like me turning the masts - ' oh that's not the way you do it, it's supposed to be by a sail servo and winches', well I did the sovereign by turning the masts and that worked - well, sort of, it does mean that the detail is not there, so for this I am trying to keep the masts stationary and rotate the spars - I will try and photo with my phone rather than the web cam, resolutions better.
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here is a better picture of the marine contingent, also with the standard scale of a paint tin for comparison - the fore main and mizzen masts, they are glued together so will need prizing apart to fit the parts 142, 158, 176, the spars are not glued and are just a tight fit, but you get the sense of scale that I am trying to work to, the brass versions are exact size replication.
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Hi have you thought about drilling out the thickest of the masts and inserting a steel rod as a stiffener or if you really want keep the original masts cut them in half make a channel in two halves add steel rod glue back together, or as was suggested carbon or fg tube regards pete
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Hi, petesubman, yes I thought about 'inserting' a stiffener, trouble is length, a small diameter drill bit being up to 50-75mm long is impossible to find, slicing it in two would also be difficult due to the width being about 5-8mm wide 1. without shattering the plastic 2. keeping the cut straight 3. my abilities being what they are, lol.
The other option was to bond a steel rod / brass tube (its amazing what dia brass rod can be about 1mm in dia meter) up the back of the main parts of the mast, then it's disguising it, this is the best option, so looking at doing that.
its the swivelling of the spars and how to stiffen them up that a challenge now, I suppose I could bond more brass tube to it, which seems to be the better option.
The marines have half their trousers on now, later I will complete the front painting, once dry I can do the tunics and later the faces and hands and then the final finish with black - deep joy, in between the ships captain will get his legs replaced and then I will build Nelson, and as many crew as possible.
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Ok, opening the box, the overall opinion of the A50049 kit 1:180 HMS VICTORY (The National Museum version) compared to the 09252G HMS VICTORY (1815-2015 version) is that the quality is better - Soveriegn was built using 09252g.
Although I like 09252g's style of box, the A50049 box quality and artwork is better, the paper work and the packaging of the bits are also better in quality.
The instructions are essentially the same though do look better, the shrouds instructions are on a separate sheet (though still as complex as before) and there is a safety instruction leaflet and sales leaflets included. the flags are on thicker paper than 09252g's, but this wasn't designed to be a rc boat, so will have to look at getting some copies from Sheldon Cooper after watching 'fun with flags'.
Big quality difference with the vac formed sails - in this they are from a thicker material and show the detail that was lost on 09252g's, very impressed.
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WOW, after opening the bag, there is a definite difference in quality with the kit, lighter in colour and a lot crisper, time will tell if the fit is better.
I bought some 1/16" 1.58 Dia. aluminium rod, this is going to be bonded to the mast to create rigidity, at the moment I was thinking to the rear but on reflection I am putting it on the front of the masts to hide it behind the sails, once painted it should blend in better.
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I've just fitted the shroud frame together, this is far better than 09252g's, which was a pain to assemble, the same fault is still present with the frame, in that when creating the shrouds you are supposed to wrap the thread around one side as you move down the horizontal notches, how, when a bobbin is bigger than the gap left as you move down the frame and the two horizontal stiffeners get in the way, its in black so its difficult to see black thread or brown thread if you decide that you don't want to use the thread supplied (ratlines are black not white or dark brown hemp coloured I would think).
So I have to work out how much thread I need and wind that onto a small bit of sprue so I can weave it through the body of the frame between the lines, if they made the frame sides wider to be stronger ie not bend, and removed the two stiffeners then that would help, so I will see if I can do a shroud without modifying the frame.
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Well mayhemmers, the marines got finished last night, not that happy, but at 1/180 (11-12mm high) they will look ok on board, now just to finish Nelson, the captain, 1st lieutenant, and two 2nd lieutenants, 3 powder monkeys, and then the remaining various crews - 64 of which are just for the guns.
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Well the following is the remainder of those done, in order Nelson, Captain, 1st Lieut. 2nd Lieut, 2nd Lieut Jnr, powder monkey 2 bucket, powder monkey 1 bucket and runner - awww, in e cute, all from the family related to joseph merrick
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At that scale they are perfectly acceptable especially as people would notice the rigging being wrong long before they started picking holes in your sculpting. Not that your rigging is going to attract critisism.
Whilst time consuming, could you make your own shroud frame incorporating modifications?
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I could, but I will use the ones supplied, with the left one modified it's just about acceptable for the victory with the top stiffener removed, i'll perceveir with the new one. I have another 21 members of the crew to build from the bits from sovereign, but I am going to do a little bit of cad to illustrate the crew build, just in case anyone's interest in how I did it (badly). {-), oddly they never explain whether the collected strands at the top just lie on the frame or pushed together so that they sit inside the upright that produce the XYZ hole frame.
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I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.
Apologies for the delay, but here is how Sovereign was controlled - in this Victory, the motor, sail board and control gear is different again, depending on whether the test on the motor works out as planned or not will determine if a motor is being fitted - if so then the rudder will be better placed or different if not fitted - still undecided yet.
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Here is the Marines construction - using the cannons from Sovereign (and now Victory - as when under sail they are usually behind the doors - and the only visable guns are those that are those supplied with carriages and therefore will have crew :} ) I constructed the marines in exactly the same way even for Nelson and the other officers and minions, that the gun (parts 201-240) and first cut some 3/64" styrene rod or thereabouts, one at 4.5mm long (usually the right leg, and one 7-8mm long (usually the left leg), why longer, so that the extra bit can be fitted into the hole in the deck (may be cut off later if being used where he is not fitted that way), it also allows the item to be inserted as seen earlier into a piece of card to stand them upright (two small slices in a cross formation into a cereal box thick card strip the poked through with a cocktail stick).
They are they glued together either as in the marines right next to each other or separated so to simulate walking, I have bent them in the past for a figure scrubbing the deck on his hands and knees :D. though with styrene I will need to cut them and glue them in situe. so now we have the legs.
then once dry we glue the body to the top of the legs, either vertical or various angles to simulate a slight bent over, or so they look vertical when walking or in this crew, cutting the lower part to simulate a better looking bending or climbing %).
The arms are done in exactly the same way as the legs from a thinner gauge rod, though bending them is more difficult as it tends to break with this old stuff I have, they are cut into 4mm each, if the gun is being done I didn't see the point in making a separate arm to sit behind the gun, but on reflection should have, I might still do so, prior to them boarding ship but it will be time consuming.
The hat for the marines is just a 1mm long piece of 3/64" rod placed front to back and central - well almost, and for the officer a longer piece to go over the dia of the cannon face with a small piece of arm sat on top of that to try and recreate the cornered hat, for the officers hat the same is done but turned shoulder to shoulder 90°, the sword and the sheath are lengths of the thinner rod, as is the telescope, the buckets carried by the little uns, is actually the bottom cut off part of the bodies, since they have short bodies than the crew, these simple pieces of rod don't half make the vessel look alive.
Paint, red 19 for tunics, 85 black for hair, hats, boots and guns, silver for the sword flesh 31 for faces, hands, arms, legs and bodies, white 22 for the sailors clothes and the wigs, and with extreme difficulty the cross banding on the marines tunics. Paint brush - cocktail sticks, act as a stirrer as well as the brush :}
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Simple enought to recreate!
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Hi warspite, here's a not very good pic of sophies starboard side with the flesh colour test and original ochre paint scheme, regards pete
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In your opinion which do you prefer?, Ocre or flesh, I'm split between both, i.e. I prefer a colour that would be not as brash as the ocre but not as close to the idea of flesh - to pinky for my taste.
Looking at the close ups of the original Victory the colour is not that bad, but how does that translate to scale colours from revell or humbrol, I am leaning towards doing the same as the original colour, that is until someone puts the new colour scheme next to it and its a better look then i'll change it.
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here is the latest update - the sails, just need to mark them out and wash the petro wax coating off them, that will be the next update, the colour matt 74 is a close match to this next picture and that is what the instructions say paint her above the water line - that I know I didn't like when I did it on sovereign - so changed it to XF-4 yellow green, so will nip out and have a look at what else is available.
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well that didn't go according to plan, it's lighter than 'paint' showed it >:-o
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Update, On Sunday I constructed 90% of the Bowsprite, just the two spars to fit and a clean up before I can photo it, then it needs painting and rigging (well before then getting the angle and the support fitted (see sovereigns arrangement at the top of this page), again its in brass to take the knocks, its also in smaller diameter tube and more - model accurate, i.e. its been made to look like the plastic version.
Spent some of the weekend, cutting, washing sails and doing shrouds, still I did cover the rear of the bottom gun ports - then realised I should have fitted the doors first and then cover them, like I did with sovereign - doh.
Most of the time was spent cleaning out some of the loft and searching all of it for bits and pieces, namely I used to have a Humbrol paint gun, but must have thrown it away, so will have to wait a few months to get a new one, so will have to buy a couple of rattle cans to prime the outside once the stability and balance test is done, also get a good quality multi-tool - have you ever used a vastly oversized drill (Bosch with that special chuck that only excepts SD drill bits) for doing holes through walls with a multi-tool grinding disk to cut 1.2mm dia. brass tube etc., hairy and difficult to do without a vice.
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Have another look. I couldn't find three moulds thismorning until I looked again and they just showed up {:-{
The Gremlins have loads of fun moving stuff anf disguising things <*<
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I know, but I know the thing was just a wreck last time I had it, and was hoping to resurrect it, just have to see what the badger is in the local model shop when I go and look at paint.
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Okay the long awaited update - if anyones bothered (loads of views no comments but from a couple of interest parties !!!???)
I have finished the construction of the Bowsprite - in brass - and other than a little mistake its almost identical to the plastic version, I have a small dremel which is rechargeable - yea - its charge dissappates after about 3 minutes, so have to swap for a small reachargeable drill which runs at about a third of the speed to be any use, my other two drills are a spare and is as old as the hills and a Bosch - suitable for construction hole drilling - scary.
Cleaning the brass of solder etc is a pain and panel wipe will have to be bought before I apply any paint, when I get that as well.
the gun deck has also been modified to take the bowsprite, I just have to adjust the hull to accept the modified gun deck.
Here's the piccies.
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I am on the last two shrouds and they should be finished soon, then during the weekend, I will be mainly washing the sails to get the wax out of them, I can then start to modify the guns to be detailed up a jig made and start thinking of either drilling the decks for them and the sailors or apply the deck finish as detailed in the soliel thread, I love the effect that was created and I am going to have a go :-)).
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Oops, the jack staff is in the wrong place - oh well i'll fix it tomorrow >:-o
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Well been out this morning and bought the 'Ocre' that I believe closely matches that on Victory from unbuiltnautilis's very informative photos on the other thread, more of the deeper orangey part of a daffodil, of in the case of the photo's below the colour of a stock pencil, but then when you get to the shop there is no Ocre - or what is purporting to be Ocre is actual a dark orange like a Satsuma, even the Ocre in military figurine acrylics is tepid and Tamiya xf-4 is a closer match to that, so I got Humbrol's Matt 24 - signal yellow I think it said on the stand, the photo's shows it in direct sunshine (what the hell is that - surprise surprise its sunny) and the next is inside on the desk - though not exactly perfect I am happier with it - just have to learn how to thin it down for the airbrush.
Now I know its a cheap and nasty airbrush, but for the amount of spraying I do, it will be adequate, most of the painting I have been doing is with either a cheap and nasty kiddies water paints set of brushes, not used the Humbrol president brushes or those from the kit yet, or cocktail sticks and a bit of thin styrene rod, just have to see if I can connect it to my compressor.
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Warspite im sure it will look the part, after all its your boat, i found when spraying that lots of thin coats are better any runs you get the thinners will evaporate , just remember to the gun moving i usually have practice on something before getting serious, regards pete
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My previous boss was a professional industrial sprayer, and he gave me a few pointers in the past when I expressed an intrest in spraying for the company incase any one was off or on site, never had a go but did try rattle can on a seahawk kit, that came out ok, though the plastic was grey anyway.
Result - my son has just handed me his artwork pastels - that he apparently doesn't like using and doesn't need for his GCSE art any more, vintage pine and ash effect to follow (he said hopefully), whilst in hobbycraft, they wanted 60p per stick of pastel, and even then not a great selection considering the size of the store, good job I decided to find out what colours I needed first.
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Result No.2 - my old Micon compressor still works and the Humbrol airbrush connector fits like a glove.
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Well fixed the Bowsprite, I have panel wiped it and as I was doing it, low and behold it started threatening to rain, must have jinxed it before when I said it was sunny, next it will be snowing >:-o.
Best place to store panel wipe, loft no, kitchen definite no, outside in the rain no, outside in the outside bike cabin - uuurrrghhh, archnids home yes.
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Some detail on the rear of the Bowsprite, though not perfect, it will not be to KPNUTS standard or stan or any of the other absolutely astounding modellers on this site (brownie points collecting %))
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And with some primer on it - the detail isn't as bad as I first thought it might be, but it was an experiment, will be taking the thread wrapping off and replacing it with plasticard as that will look neater
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:-), so here it is with the steel bands, its drying now after being primed, doesn't look to bad, is there an easy way to take the contents of a Humbrol small can and mix them efficiently before adding the thinner to get the consistency required for spraying?
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In he words of Mr Williams from the fast show - today I will be mainly adding the rain water shrouds over the gun ports, I will post a pic of the bowsprite and the work done in due course :D
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As my eyes re-adjust to normal vision, here are the latest updates, all the rain / water shrouds are above the know gun ports, some are protected by rails of architrave (looks like a picture rail profile we had in our front room many years ago) or the ratline fixing rails to the shrouds or are just too close to the top of the ship for it to matter (if I've missed any - please let me know now as I am planning on painting soon - Kudos to unbuiltnautilis's photos - note that nearly all photo's of Victory I have looked as recently never show two areas of the ship in great enough detail, the end of the bowspite forward of the main spar i.e. the jack pole and forward of it, and the other is the area between the mizzen mast and main mast where the two ratline shrouds are around where the steps to the main deck would be, I can't figure out where the boom would be slung from, it's pivot is at the end of the outside platform where the steps up the side are and it ends just after the start of the rear outer platform, but nothing between).
Also as promised the painted bowsprite (or should that be bow sprit - a few sites have it as this).
will have to check the painting section to see how others mix the small cans efficiently as no suggestions yet on here.
PPS. still impressed with the quality of this kit compared to the previous, it does have some issues but they are not as bad and can be overcome with a bit of knife work, you can tell that the mould is suffering and some warping and pitting has occurred in the mould, would love to have got a prestine kit from years ago, surprised there are only two boats for the deck, in the painting Fall of Nelson, it shows at least 4 of the 5 that would be stowed there, though according to one site, to protect against splitters and damage to crew when in action, they would have cleared for action and put them overboard and had them towed behind.
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Okay last update for today (what do you mean yeaaaa >:-o)
I managed between spells of rain to spray with Tamiya matt white the deck and inside the hull, inside to make it lighter and easier to see, will need a few coats but will see how that goes later. as suggested it's patchy just need to decide what pastels are needed to get the upper deck colours right, for the gun deck I have to paint the deck with the Matt 24 and then attempt to create that vintage pine effect, deep joy.
This is the ships boats first coat, Humbrol 10 is gloss so using it as an undercoat, it went on patchy anyway so needs a coat of a matt brown paint or just may leave it gloss, the white is Humbrol 22 and is the first coat, so again is patchy, even with panel wipe its not going on well, so the kits got issues with reacting with paint, hopefully not that bad it just seems to be the odd sprue set.
The guns are painted in matt black (that big tin is gonna have to be thrown - need some fresh), the carriages are part painted with the fixing hole drilled so once they have been painted the guns can be fitted and detailing can begin :D. Until the decks have been painted I cannot fit the guns or build the crew by drilling the needed holes and finishing the detailing, though I have to do the buoyancy test before that - so many things to do what order to do them in, grrr.
these last pictures are of the main and foremasts, I have sewn a hook to where the spar would be fitted (these hooks are used in the waist band of trousers and skirts above the zip where the clasp has failed, on the main mast I have used one of the mating parts to act as the way of moving the sails, by running the thread through the eyelets down to the deck each end of the thread passes either side of the mast, it will become more apparent later, the foremast only needs the hook as the main and fore spars will be operated from the foremast, just have to figure how to rotate the spars using a standard servo with a limited internal width (75-80mm max at the widest point), a sail winch with 1.5 turns would be ideal so may get one - at 49g its also quite light, the only issue is it slipping the thread and then the whole boats a sit on the bench for life as access in is restricted, a sail arm on the other hand might be better, again access is tight if not none existant if the servo if placed too far from the rear, I will try and draw a sketch of what I am describing.
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Sorry to have been away! I like the bowsprit, your soldering isn't bad at all. If all the brass was clean and relativly grease free then it should not have been a problem. My issue is to solder,and then decide to add just a small bit more solder which then becomes too much that needs lots of effort to remove >>:-(
I reccomend Fluxite as it seems to make the solder more controllable and isn't corrosive.
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Since we moved into this house 24 years ago, we have mod the central heating system a couple of times with a fresh boiler in 2005 and replacement radiators and altering the pipe run a couple of times, when a tradesman turns up and when me and my father and father in law have dabbled in our own endevours to alter the system I bought plumbers solder and two types of flux a small pink tin and a black tub, both have been used and are as good as each other though the tub gets used more since its easier to open, the solder is about 4-5mm diameter (I know well oversized) but I am using it up, I do have some electrical flux cored for electronics, ideal for the more intricate work, lately though (if 2 years is lately) it has been heavy duty stuff like this, it blackens up fast and yes some solder is heavy, but the annoying thing the most is that those little grinders that come with multitools don't half go quickly when trying to give a grain/key for paint, it appears an industrial grinder disk is needed for a standard drill if it needs to be effective enough, but that's a dangerous Darwin award thought.
Paint - its not ronseal - matt 24 doesn't appear to reflect what is on the lid, 1st its more of a mustard, need a more yellower colour (like those thin central reservation bollards), 2nd its glossy, so next experiment is to apply a more rigorous mixing technique, see if that works, then spraying, to see if that improves the effect.
Foremast - did a boo boo last night, the platform to the foremast got glued on, why is that a problem, I was supposed to finish the bonding of the ali tube to the spars and other fasteners, then paint the spars and masts, also fitting this bit I didn't forsee how I was going to fit the shrouds so they looked right.
Sorry no photo's, forgot to take my phone to the loft, will catch up soon.
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No worries. take your time and sort your stuff out :-))
Humbrol aint has of late been rather hit and miss in quality due to being made in China so while one can expect the colour to differ a bit between tin lid and contents, it should not fall into a different description. Bright yellow hould just be that and not a ocherish mustard! I have a tinlet of Matt varnish that is like treacle and a tin of 26 which is similar. They are both useable with brush painting, but to get the right mix for airbrusing would be fun at best.
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Well tonight's update - not a lot but here goes, the next set of photos consist of, in the foreground the middle mast of the fore mast with its hook, the main mast again with its hook and eye (hoping this arrangement works and is strong enough, no thread was used to secure it - just the epoxy), and in the background the midlle mast of the main mast with its hook, the top mast of all three will not be swivelling, just glued as normal and secured, with a stiffener (not sure yet what size to make it, will see about getting either some even thinner rod).
The incomplete foremast bundle - all the items to assemble the foremast, shrouds, sails and various bits including the spars, but as they haven't been constructed yet then it's an incomplete set. This set is like this so when the stability test is undertaken I can tie it all together and just plug it into the top deck, in essence all its weight wont be far out when I determine the amount the sail board needs.
The bow sprite with its second coat of paint, they yellow is still too mustardy, but it will do, a more vigerous stirring using a 14.4v portable bosch drill (who's battery was not as charged) and a piece of sprue will lots of prongs sticking out - like a Montezuma Aztec sword :D a slow rotation built up to a decent speed appears to have mixed it a bit better.
the gun carriages - the paint looks quite glossy, they were in their top deck and gun deck quantities but have now been separated into those that are for the relative decks by a certain criteria.
lastly - the 6 main decks guns with their cannons fitted, the 3 on the left are for the left side where the crew will be pulling the cannons into position, and the right side where the crew will be stood around preparing theirs, the same will be done for the gun deck where 5 will be putting the guns into position while the other side is getting ready, this bit is dependant on how much detail can be seen from between the boats and inside the gun ports - pointless if nothing can be seen, the first picture on page 2 shows what the guns look like on sovereign, with the side off you can see the guns quite well, but when she's closed up the area is like a dark pit.
The next two pictures are the pastels I will be trying to create the decks with, hopefully I might get some tips from others when / if they see this. %)
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My matt black has started to deteriate, its going like it's been mixed with water, clumpy, well it's nearly two years since it was last opened (I still have tinlets from 1982), not sure whether to get another fresh tin (this was a big tin of matt black - its probably had about half either evaporate or be used and is about 10-15 years old) a couple of small tinlets might do. :embarrassed:
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Definitly replace. The Humbrol tins do let the air in after a times used and even goes off in a sealed tub.
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Well tonights endeavors will be shown when I start part two, all I have done is cut the aluminium tube and epoxied it to the spars, I will photo them before adding the 'eye', then I can proceed on to the mizzen mast, collate and tie together the bits and then wait till I get to the shop for some thin rod for the top sails bonding session, and paint to finish of the bow sprite, namely a new tin of matt black.
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So the next are the new provisions and what the inside of the vessel is like after my attempt at rattle can application ( the taped bits were to allow me to affix bits without having to scrape the paint off again - need more thought next time).
the wire is for the top spars and will act as stiffeners (pictures to follow), the small tin of enamel is the detail since my large tin has started to deteriote, but what is the Tamiya colour - it doesn't exactly say - is it enamel, acrylic ?
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Well taking a break while paint dries etc.
The first is the eyes and hooks which I am using, I hope they work.
The next is the main and middle spar of the foremast, with their ali tube strengthener,
The next is the first attempt to fit the eye on the main spar and then the middle spar, then I remembered - you aint painted it yet, and had to remove my efforts, duh.
Next this is the either the main mast main spar or middle spar.
Now the interesting bit, I have started the decking, following kpnuts suggestion for deck painting, here goes, the first using UBN's excellent photos's is the main gun deck, the wood appears to look like a light version of antique pine, and I need to know if any one thinks its a good comparison or I can wash it off and try again, whereas the main upper decks appear to be like ash when its 'greyed' off or silvered, so the next two show this effect, now remember the ships been at sea for a while and no matter how much scrubbing of the deck, its gonna look used, so the two lines behind the main mast are the wear pattern for the officers etc who walk this beat, the mizzen deck is probably not as used so is lighter in colour, I could still darken this off to be a closer match to that of the main deck - comments please?
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Well here is the next set of endevours, the cannons have their main rope attached, its not perfect but what do you expect at this scale :embarrassed:
I had a play with the pastels and using my finger 'rubbed' the black and brown in a bit more, it's a bit better, and the antique pine effect is better with a bit more brown, the matt 24 stills shows through quite a lot but with the black and brown in a bit more its toning it down. Should I add more - not sure, just need the wife to get some hair spray and we can move on a bit more - I was going to mark out where the guns sit and put some black pastel on the wheels and pull them back to indicate running marks - not sure, I know there should be a blackening around the gun port from the powder residue but it might be a bit over the top.
I still have to fit the pulleys yet and I am trying to figure out what to do for them, hhmmm.
Now the bowsprite, (yep I painted it - the matt 24 got another good mix with the drill and sprue) it recommends Humbrol 10 for the wood, it's a bit glossy, as it is on sovereign, so opened my trusty stock of paint tins ( and I do mean OLD) and found a matt brown as you can see, I will try and remember what the colour is later, now for a bit of detailing, the spars are secured I suppose with rope, so out came the brown thread and I wrapped the yard with it - CAREFULLY this time and its come out quite well, it just needs a coat of clear cote and its done, will do the same for the other spars and how do you put text between the photo's?
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Looking good. I like the idea of using the metal hooks. I wil try that one day. Regards the decks. There would be plenty enough crew members available to holy stone the deck daily. BUT. After action where powder and grot and soot from dscharde etc will have soiled the deck, then some filth would be expected.
I like to think of a warship as an organism. After a trauma such as battle damage, the cells (Sailors) with direction from the prions (Specialists i.e Carpenter and the like commnded by the Brains (Officers) will repair and heal the ship before normal routine returns including that darned deck scrubbing! Even later, Artificers would work to repair guns, engines boilers etc with help from sailors.
Anyhow, I don't think a bit of dirt is wrong if in the right context. Keep up the good work :-))
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Well, it appears windows update has sought to destroy my pc, so i'm on the XP side at the moment, till i figure what or hope to repair the win 7, so here is the up date from last night and hopefully later i might be able to add some more.
The brown paint is Matt 70, gloss 10 will be used generally but to keep the forard bits weathered i have used that as will other bits as i see fit :} .
The bow sprite with the 'M' sail fitted, just the rigging to fit and it will be ready for installing.
A sea of main mast bits, painted and fitted with hooks and eyes etc.
And the fore masts (the two other parts are painted but are show in the background before that happened.
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Cripes, that is a lot of parts. She should look very intricate when complete. And she'll be a working model as well :-)
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Here is the next update - until i get into the loft to do some more, at the moment i am trying to fix the win 7 to no avail, restoring to a previous time doesn'y work and its annoying that some of the apps needed don't even open - like windows update - so i can uninstall the recent updates that have probably crashed it, even task manager is tempermental at opening, closing down doesn't work, it goes to black screen with the cursor in the middle for eons, so i am going to have to restart with opening the outlook and doing a pst file and try and see if i can find the settings so that i can do a complete reinstall from a windows image and if that doesn't work a completely fresh instal, any way back to the other fun item.
Because shes worth it :}
The decks
The mizzen deck, not really sure about these colours, tried to do ash like UBN's photos (and failed), but may try something later before the detailing stage, using this as a base to work on top of, not sure if Humbrols acrylic varnish will react with what will go on top, provisionally more pastel and varnish (may consider trying to recreate the antique pine).
The main deck is even lighter, again may change it.
Now the good part, does this look like antique pine to you - it does to me, i am reasonably happy with the effect, its below decks so will be lost on those who cannot see inside.
The sails for the fore and main masts have been fitted, with the exception of the foremast top sail which is still drying from being painted, i'm going to the loft to start on the mizzen mast, using ali tube to replace yards for the large sail off the back, when the sails are next unfurled they are being treated to some clear coat at the sewed bits to strengthen the thread, i can't cut the threads till i am happy. The next two photo's are the way that i fitted the sails. I fitted the sails to allow for the assemblies to be strapped together for the stability test which i am hoping to get started next weekend - 1 weather permitted and 2 if i have managed to figure out what order to do things (that includes getting this pc to work properly).
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missed a photo
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An update on the quality of the kit - I still believe it is still better than the last one, but some issues have started to show them selves, there is a lot of stippling inside the hull around the bow and stern, sanding will get rid of the majority of this though, as with the previous kit the thinner sections of spars and upper masts are showing signs of warping and I have to add strengtheners to not only add rigidity (something i would have to do anyway), but straightening, there are a few kinks.
The grills in the upper and lower decks need opening out as the best detail is actually underneath, {:-{ , for some reason, it would have been better if they had the prongs in the mould on the top, oh well.
The holes for the uprights between the decks, where the boats will sit were either not moulded or not penertrating so need drilling out, in fitting the mizzen deck I have noticed that i may need to remove the deck lugs on the hull to make the deck sit as it should, since i will be fitting a support strip like i did for sovereign, thats not a problem.
One other issue i have to concider is how much deck do i need to remove, the later part of the main deck is to go but should i do more and have it behing the ships wheel, its not more than 12mm to be gained, on sovereign i fitted a tube and it allowed the mizzen to slide into this to secure the mizzen deck to the ship, so may need to replicate this - watch this space.
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Hm, some things to ponder. I like the weather deck it looks well stoned with some signs of recent activity. If the tube arrangement worked last time, I would not bother reinventing the wheel.
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Well that went well - NOT >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( , how much i can stress this >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( , one for each cannon i want to point at all the staff of MS. Had to reinstall win 7, the backups were a waste of time etc.
Anyway here is another photo to go on with, its the final sail fitted to the top yard of the foremast, got nothing else done with the boat, need to destress.
the next is the mizzen mast which has been modified yesterday its had the new yards fitted but not glued in yet.
then the final spar for the foremast
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Stoned - I like that phrase, {-) , next time i'm in the loft (workshop) i'll photo the arrangement to show what i mean, it will mean adjusting the bottom of the mizzen and will need to check if i have some material to do it (i went one size up on all the diameters when doing the sovereign masts so that the smallest diameter was rod - now i have found even thinner rod i could have made everything thinner and therefore lighter - over engineering things).
Will be using the XP side of the pc until i get the win 7 side up and running, deep joy.
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Procreating computers. You can't live with them and you can't live without them. Without them Mayhem would be a postal group with quarterly newsletters hand cranked by Martin having typed the templates out with his Olivetti, pasting grainy photos of stuff people have made.
Progress looks intricate.
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Control - discuss,
While a sail servo is basically a beefed up version of a standard servo, and used for rotating an arm with the ends of the tethers fixed at each end, they usually have longer radii to rotate in, 70° i believe instead of the more common 45° about each centre, although well and good, they are also confined to the inside dimensions of the boat and the boat being 80mm wide that means i would be as well using a standard servo.
Sail winch, again about the size of a standard servo or can be smaller, weight as much (49g is the lightest i have seen for a standard sized unit), essentially a rotating pulley which rotates anything from 1.5 times to 8 times, which the tethers are wrapped around, unusual configeration is to have the tethers connected to the sail and taught to keep the tension on, or one end fixed to the pulley and it winds on the tether, the more accepted route is to have the tethers connected to a continous loop of thread that wraps around the pulley on the servo and the other around a pulley at the other end of the boat under spring tension so that it doesn't slip off, if slippage does occur, then the continous loop accounts for this as the distance it loops at is that of the pull required or there abouts.
Now this is not a big boat - its actually quite small at 80mm wide and 320mm long internally, access is extremelly small and if the thread breaks, unless your hands are about the size of a three year olds then there is no chance of tieing thread to a servo arm or wrapping the thread back around a pulley, so we go back to the solid linkage found in other attempts, rotating masts is an option at this early stage, but being refered to a girl, lol, means i need to discount this option, plus i want to make it as detailed as possible with the parts from the kit, i have an idea, it will require an experiment to see if the plan is feasable, but essentially, the idea is to have the inside bit so that access would not be required if a thread linkage breaks (a solid linkage breaking is a different kettle of fish).
One idea being toyed with, was to have the two decks removable, first the hull gets narrower as you move up the hull, though maybe enough to squeeze the lower deck past as an assemblyto the underside of the main deck, couple of other thoughts, how to seal sufficiently enough to allow water to enter the lower gun ports and not enter the hull or any other area as screwing down the deck would require the screws to pass through the top deck then through the bottom deck, unsightly as well, then there is the shrouds, these fit to the side of the hull, their platforms would need to be screwed to the hull, again unsightly, even painted black, they could be utilised to hold down the bottom deck if the holes and mating fixings on the decks matched up, eliminating deck screws, but, you see the problem.
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Well here is a picture of the experiment, pulleys etc rely on the requirement to lift a load, a single pulley with a load, 1 meter pull 1 meter lift, 2 pulleys, should be in fact 1m pull, 0.5m lift, so in this instance the distance to travel is 90mm say by a single wrap around the screw 90mm travel equals 90mm pull, wrap around the screw and around the studding nut and fix to the second screw = 90mm travel equals 47mm pull, about 0.5 pull, now 90mm travel around the 1st screw around the studding nut around the 2nd screw, around the studding nut again and fixed to the screw = 90mm travel equals 24mm pull, about 0.23 pull.
So if it can be made smoother to operate, pulling the studding nut pulley (if replaced with pulleys) and wrapped the same, every 24mm of pull will equal 90mm of thread travel, so assuming that the travel through 45° on a standard servo arm is say 6.3mm (outer hole) then it should mean that it should pull the end of the thread 22.5mm, still not enough, so how do you pull 90mm with the travel of 6.3mm, increase the servo arm radii, 4x should provide 4x pull, will try again, initially i was going to use the eye at the top of the main mast to be the pulley for moving the foremast spars, will need to see if another experiment will provide the rotation required.
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Hm, lots to consider there. havng both decks made to come out can be done iff you make the removable part of the decks dimentionally the foot print of the hole they can be lifted through but this requires you do cut these parts out of the deck pieces and stick the outer section to the hull sides. This would make the hull stronger but there would be a gap around the removable piece into which water could trickle.
As for being described a girl for doing something a certain way; Its your blooming model, do as you want, tell em to 'Foxtrot Oscar' >>:-(
There's a difference between an idea that is silly for common sense/ease of life issues, but this isn't the same as trying something out that you have worked on and testing it out.
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It was a comment in jest to be honest ;D , but it got me thinking over the last few months after that i got the new boat and the job took over and it wasn't till i got absolutley fed up with the current job that i decided to start this as a way of unwinding, early starts to miss traffic had me sat at work waiting to start, so with the abundant scrap paper started to work out the card board boats crane, then i decided - i know i will try to do the Victory - and here we are, currently with the pc not playing properly, that is taking over as i try to reinstall win 7 to the hard drive, need easus to clear the partitions as i have just formated the win 7 drive and its still got a partion on it, then i can try to fresh install win 7 again.
when weekend allows i have a plan to try a more near the mark experiment, using the type of eye hooks used on net curtains and see how that works, the previous experiment was going against screw threads and rough studding nuts, with the more rounded wire and shape of the eyes, there may be less resistance, if more eyes can be used to give a better pull then the next step would be to create a chain pulley from thick copper or brass rod so when painted they don't look out of place, the arrangement has to work duplicated so that when one side goes up the other side goes down if employed up the mast, i will try and do a sketch to show what is being planned, that way, a picture will show whats happening rather than a long text description. As far tensioning, the method used for guide ropes on tents will be used, to be honest the amount of force on the sails can't be that bad for sails this big, the issue is pulling a set angle to the deck and holding it at that angle, with the wind unable to pull sufficiently to effect that angle.
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Fair enough! I wish you well with your computer alchemy and hope it returns you your sanity.
The magic element when making mechanisms that cannot be readily accessed is to make sure they are low wear, and utterly reliable. Experimenting is definitly the way to go especially to test an idea to destruction. If your mechainism continues working overnight without a nut coming loose or a friction issue melting someting then you should have a reliable system.
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The pc is currently back up and running, just a shed load of reinstalling to do - deep joy.
Part of the installing will be to get the picture resizer up and running, although I could re-attach the xp drive and do it there, the test was done - photo in the post to come, the test was to see what effect the eyes have, a more conclusive test to follow - a quick test was to see what the friction was going to be like - horrendous - the other test will be better as the thread is not sharing the same eye (most of my tools are in the loft).
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Well, the pc has finished updating the main update, since I have just installed the MS Office, that has its own updates, deep joy.
here is a photo of the second test where the eyes were temporily fitted, the next test will be with them screwed into the wood separately.
next is the test tank in place and 90% filled for the test to sovereign to create a new smaller sail board, that test will allow the Victory stability test to be more ideal.
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Well here is the first update for the sailboard assessment test - what happens here helps with the Victory.
To start - Sovereign
Next - The existing sail board, as you can see the weight is 356g, it ghosted about this and 359g.
A standard unistrut galvanised washer, the screw being used for the test ( I thought I had one that was half the length of the sail board but that was a different thread, this one is 50mm long, the other washers are also galvanised and make up the remaining weight of the sail board.
The water line is reached with the existing sail board, in fact its just under the water line , and she is very stable vertically, and like a scene from jaws, the sailboard in the test tank.
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Here is the missing photo
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Well that didn't go exactly to plan. :D
The similar weight on the shorter screw, and she heeled right over, half expected due to the moments of inertia, but so much so quickly, then I straightened the weight M10 holes in an M8 screw, the attached photo is the current weight, I initially had the weight down as shown using the wire to move the weight down to the bottom of the bolt, the whole weight is now about half the way down the sail board but the stern was down quite a lot and she was a lot lower overall ??????, not sure how considering the weight is less or equal, this weight is even less at 299g as I took a unistrut nut off, I know shifting the weight forward, eventually will help.
Well I took another 53g off by a nut, and she almost keeled over completely, so its back on, she is well up at the nose and a large circular washer was removed as well, so whatever the weight of the attached bits is then that's the weight that gets made up in lead at that depth, it cannot be any worse than what was used before, the use of brass masts is not going to make this a comparative test, but it does help in knowing that the worst case is at 50mm below the hull - 233g or there about is sufficient to keep her upright and possibly stable.
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Here is sovereign at here new water level, as you can see shifting the weight forward will level things back to neutral condition and the change in condition will not be any different to that previous, drat, was hoping that the level would have been at least at the required water level or just above, now I have to create the new sailboard and hope that it follows the same trim setting as this then the fun really begins with a wind test, to see if she heels to much.
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Wow even with the threads separated the pull required is quite an effort, even with pulleys I think the effort would require the services of a large servo torque, the idea being considered is being shelved as the mast could not accommodate the force required to do it, the only option is a simple dual pull ie for 100mm pull it has to be pulled 50mm in the opposite direction (take out the hook on the right of the photo).
so internally I have to provide a 50mm lever over the 45° travel of the servo arm and translate this to a vertical movement through the deck,
if everything was the same distances then ok but the amount of error in the outside pull being the same distance as the servo arm would defeat the object, unless I am over thinking this, that an arm on each side of the mast rising up and down pulling the thread the distance the servo moves will still give sufficient travel about the pivot to effect enough change, if tight enough then the wind will not pull it suffiently enough to change its angle. I will sketch it to demonstrate.
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just made the replacement keel bulb, just need to fix it in the position it will sit based on the thread of the bolt, and trim it accordingly. Now i'll do the sketch.
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Here is the sketch, the idea that both angles give different lengths is ok, as if the same is repeated on the other side of the mast then the opposite length applies, so they both balance each other out, but how to translate this to outside of the ship, if the linkage was a solid one, say a thin piece of brass rod (either side) and the thread was only on the outside if the thread breaks then its easily repairable, whereas, if it is inside and breaks it cannot be rectified.
Soooo - if the thread fixing point is the same on the spar as that on the servo arm (horn), then the smaller the radii the harder it is to ensure it is tight and does not deflect any more than a degree or so, to tight and its ability to rotate about the mast will be restricted, the object is to rotate the spar - not tie it down. Then I have to operate the upper spar in much the same way, easy enough if there was room to run another line up, but that's not possible so the plan is to do the control lines as shown.
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well after careful head scratching, and getting splinters, rotating a servo arm under the deck with a movement being translated up through the deck at the main mast is not currently feasible, not with my building skills and equipment (oh to have the resources that some have and others like me aspire to %) ).
new plan, the mizzen deck is always going to be removable - soooo - why not affix the drum servo here, to it's underside and transfer the thread up through the deck either side of the mast or the areas at the sides, the arrangement that is being thought about, is the ends are at a set distance from the deck with a hook, and the bit being threaded up the mast and then on to the main mast is as before, using another hook and tension adjustment by the tent guide rope method.
Also difference is that the shrouds are connected using a better method than sovereign, fixing the deck is the same as sovereigns, tension on the through deck rope - hummm, that's a challenge. I may have to surgically alter the servo to get it to fit, but there is never any dimensions of the servo and its drum on a drawing, so will have to do a hunt for the info to see if it fits.
I will have to also consider how to fit the battery and the receiver, although that can be attached anywhere inside with the right leads, here is a sketch of a standard servo and its relation to the mizzen deck.
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Found something that might work as a tensioner, a pen spring (two required), this type are quite long, about 27mm, full compression is 10mm.
Next is to sketch up the arrangement, I have two ideas, one is just to keep the cord under tension inside a tube, the other is to utilise the test arrangement to provide the pull and double the cord travel, one unit where when one side pulls the other releases, it needs sketching up to give a better idea, its making suitable pulleys to make it work.
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I am looking forward to they photos :-))
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Not sure if this easy to explain, but the concept is, as the servo arm rotates 90°, it passes through three points the start the middle and finish obviously, but the start of one thread is the end of the other thread, so the cyan, yellow and green start at the top and pull down the thread, this can be the port or starboard, whereas the blue, magenta and red also start at the top but the thread is released at the same rate as the other thread and because it loops at the mirror wheel at the bottom, the thread is turned through 180° and follows the same path as the other thread, in all cases, it's a single pull with turning points, with loose wheels as pulleys, the friction could be minimised hopefully, so for the 19mm pull it is estimated to be 38mm travel of the thread, in reality it may be that due to the constrains, the radii of the horn and therefore the pull may be a lot less, but a more accurate detailing of the area, may also require the use of a smaller servo, one test will be to assemble the main mast and main spar and see what the arc is when pulled (I haven't tried this yet - oops).
I also believe that if the turning point is employed at the top and just below, then the whole thing can be turned through 90° rather than a downward action, so the servo can be horizontal (though a standard servo is still very big for the area I have).
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I was going to ask a question on the sail boards bulb, but I have decided to just leave it as it is for now and just paint it, which will be when the araldite has cured over next week. the new sovereign bulb consists of a 22mm x 66mm length of copper pipe, with a steel bracket up the middle of the inside, encased in lead, the bracket has been shortened and has a M6 x 100mm coach bolt fitted through the remaining hole in the bracket, it's been encased in araldite. not sure about the thread - whether to encase that in epoxy or araldite to ensure is smooth, ideally the next part would be to create a new stand and therefore I can support sovereign properly with the bulb permanently glued in place, the upshot also is that this experiment didn't really help in deciding what to do for Victory, other than my original intension - so.
Victory has had some very thin strips of plastic card run along the areas where the gun deck will sit, two reasons, a platform to stop the deck falling through when the stability test is done, it also stops the main deck falling through as well and will allow the main deck to just sit on top whilst the mast when inserted into there respective holes, will then sit and be supported as they would otherwise be.
All the masts fit into their holes and I have confirmed that the spar rotates about one of the mast hooks, to quite a large degree to be honest, though there is a slight worrying way it does it, I would say the angle is about 70-75° about the centreline, (140° - 150°), but the spar drops to one side or the other, the top mast will level this off hopefully - even if it does not rotate, being fixed, the large half circle part of the clip struggles to get around the hook, but I will get some photos of this later to illustrate it, I haven't done much as I have been trying to get my head around the servo issue or more to the point the pulley issue, the servo radius is easy to do, its not having the time this week to search out the parts to make reasonably decent pulleys with the bits I have and then test the idea, I don't think the tension is going to be an issue, the amount of 'sail' is miniscule compared to the yachts most on this bit of the forum deal with, the amount of rotating the sails on this will be doing, amounts to no more than say an A4 piece of paper.
Without photo's it's a bit difficult to explain.
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So - here is some photo's,
Here is the new sovereign bulb, a weed catcher as the bulb will be forward of the fixing point unless I attach the thread to a bar close to the hull projecting to the front, something else to add weight or I just drill a hole and araldite it in position, that's a possibility.
The Mast and spar the next couple are the mast and spar as it rotates about the hook, as you can see, for the hoop to turn it has to pass through the hook so its movement is restricted, so I would recommend a piece of wire or another hoop fitted vertically as a linkage, and then all three masts.
The hull has these strips fitted, they still need a couple of webs fitting to their undersides to flatten them out and add some rigidity but they should prevent the deck from falling through, and when the time comes to fix the deck it will help in creating a seal underneath.
The way I am going to do the test for stability will mean the fitting of the two hulls together, to do this rather than fully gluing them or trying to seal them with tape like I did originally for sovereign, I decided to clamp the edges of the keel with bull clips, then, place a strip of the styrene over the joint to connect the two hulls together, its sacrificial, to separate the hulls, just cut along the centre of the strip on the inside and they will fall apart, this will fully seal the inside from water ingress, hopefully they will be strong enough to stay together without tearing and all the bits end up in the tank, using two pieces of spare sprue, cotton will be tied to the ends and passed under the strip at the front and back, creating a washing line between two points under the boat, from this I will hang the weight to test the stability etc, as the bits will be in their actual locations then the trimming should mean the brass keel insertion will be in the right place, I am thinking of creating a special sailboard where the rudder is incorporated, therefore keeping the large rudder under the vessel and the servo to operate it on the CoG.
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No one has mentioned if the pulley arrangement is feasible, any comments would be welcome, in theory it should work, to be honest the servo needs to be reduced in size as its far to big for the space I have, I do have a couple of small servo's but I am unsure if they are man enough to cope, so the test has to include the smaller servo's working up to the standard 2003.
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Eek. I wish I could help but without actually building a test piece I cannot think it out.Any help for Warspite would be appreciated I am sure.
I would suggest making simple pulleys out of discs of card or plastic just to proof test some of your ideas and mount them onto a piece of board.
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One idea for pulleys was to use the brass ferruls found with servo mounting kits, have them rotate on a suitable screw that's been threaded into the suitable thickness servo horn, the issue here is they are swaged at one end only so may need to solder two end to end, will see what the feasibility of this is later today.
So prepping the new bulb for the sovereign and then coating it with black once cured enough.
Today since the suns out I may have a go at painting the outside of the hull with the M24 yellow, it's growing on me and even if a little bit 'shiney' if not actually gloss, it wont matter, the new cheap spray gun is going to get christened :embarrassed: :D :D :D
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Lots of plastic pulleys here to choose from for no money.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pulley-combination-package-rubber-belts-rubber-band-plastic-model-accessories-/111872632509?hash=item1a0c20e6bd:g:i6IAAOSwCQNWd9ru
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wow, thanks for the link, will have a serious think about that, (not really keen on ebay), may be a serious contention, if i can get my paypal account back up and running. :D
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Well, paypal wont let me in so will look again when I have more time. :D
So - sprayed the hull with Matt 24, first time in 30+ years I have used an air brush, not a bad result, the paint did go a little matt so reasonably happy, sprayed the bulb for sovereign while I was at it, and it will still get its black coat later, then there is the photo's of the inside temporary internal seal, the cotton is for the hanging of the stability weights, I also revisited the main deck and with the black pastel darkened off the deck, to me its a lot better now, then the vessel in the water with the bull clips still attached, even removed she stays vertical, all I have to do now is package up each of the masts and sit the decks in position with as much of the remaining kit in their respective locations, this includes a servo for the rudder and one for the proposed control services. but that will require it to be tested first.
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did note that one of the strips of rod had come off, if you look at the left hull, you will see the part having curled up, will replace it later.
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Did you fix it before taking the piccies? I cannot see the curled up rod of which you mention. Coming along well.
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Top picture, bows towards you with right hull on left and Left hull on right :}
right hull (left side) - bottom row of guns third port along above its top edge.
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I know the detail is a little over the top (and its not finished yet) but it's a way of trying out my skills again, never went this far with other boats and I still have to paint the black yet - oh deep joy
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Well the latest update on the sailboard for sovereign, it's been attached for a week, and other than the water level dropping due to normal evaporation, the boats not heeled or done anything than float around the tank, she is quite stable surprisingly ----- and dusty.
Next job will to be work out the infill between the keel and the new bulb for a plastic card piece, I am hoping Victory won't be as heavy and require as deep or heavy bulb as this, still have to support the thin web of plasticard and then put the bits of the internals in place - once I have decided what I am doing for the rudder and the sail control, it all boils down to how much tension it will need on a std servo to pull the cords, I am thinking it wont take much, but the test needs to be done.
Due to some other things going on - this may not get done till next weekend.
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Well finally an update - here is the pulleys from amazon - £3.84, had to buy something else but now they are here.
We are doing some 'repairs to the house - may not see them, but they were needed and waiting upon my son coming back from texas is holding up major work until next year.
will need to build a test bed etc and get the ball rolling again, so may be some time before I do another update, the hull has been languishing on top of my computer since I last updated.
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Here's a question to the sail community, a sail winch whether it rotates once or twice etc., is it controllable that is to say does it go from one end of travel to the other, or does it stop part way along depending upon where the stick on the TX sits, I also assume the 25mm drum is 25mm od and the groove is 23/22mm, why, well the design previously turned through an angle still only gives 17mm effective travel from end to end - its not the servo/ pulley arrangement that's the limiting factor, its the proposed tensioner (a sketch will be forthcoming soon) due to the size of the spring etc. the over all length is 31mm for a single spring and 47mm for a double spring, this has to translate into 17 or 34mm below deck, leaving very little to turn or above deck before hitting the turn point to the yards.
the concept is ok its the practicalities for making it accessible to repair / remove, the servo is also quite small to fit in the available space, and all I can find is standard sized servo bodies on any winch servo (seems everything is to be big to account for large forces - no requirement for small servos and lite operations).
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Well here is the tensioner design, might not come out that well, it basically is a rod with ends that allow a M2 bolt (so larger than shown) constrained inside tubing etc with an effective throw of 17mm or 16mm to be safe.
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This how one arrangement works, a straight linkage to pull 17mm using a small servo
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and the other arrangement.
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As you can see (just) is that they scale of the vessel limits the linkage movement, so a sail winch may be the only way to go so will try and sketch that up.
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It makes sense as sailing models mostly seem to use winches. The sketches are a wee bit too small to see with clarity, could you enlrge them by say 30%? Especially as you have gone to the effort to draw and upload the for us:O)
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exporting them doesn't lend it self to the software I have, will experiment and try later, it's looking more and more difficult to think of ways to give the idea creedance, I know a standard servo will sit inside the hull - its whats inside the sovereign to operate the swivelling masts, its whether or not a sail winch will fit with the associated drum, and I am unsure if the rotation is proportional to the stick movement or either one end or the other.
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Here is another go at the tensioner sketch
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Changing the ends to suit a 2mm screw or smaller by creating a flattened end and shaping with a dremel is the idea as bending the bar around pliers would misshape it to much.
Now to get on with reissuing the sketches done before.
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Hopefully these are better, the last one is a representation of a standard sail winch.
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Its facing the wrong way round to be any use as it means dismantling it to get the thread to fit back on or if it jams, as there is no space to get access then it has to be discounted. 17mm throw on the tensioner is insufficient to account for any slack, even if the ropes are tightened with the tent guide rope idea, as in use the item may slacken off whilst out on the water, then no effect.
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Hm, back to the drawng board.
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There's several ways to control a square rigger at this scale, the most common is an ordinary servo with the widest arm you can manage to fit. The braces run up to one of the tops'l yards (not the coarse) and are attached to the yard the same distance from that center that they are on the arm below. We refer to this as parallelogram bracing. The other tops'l yards are typically links to each other so all three move together. If you have the space, a second servo can operate the fore-tops'l yard separately for better control of the model.
The heads sails can be run from the same arm that controls the foremast yards, using a sliding knot sheet as show in the attachment (I hope there's an attachment). The sheet runs from the servo through the clew of the jib and back to the servo. A pair of knot grab that sail and pull it to one side or the other. You can operate overlapping heads'l this way.
The spanker sheet too, is handled by the main/mizzen servo. It's fairlead is place at the arm in it's centered position. This is the sheeted out postion. Either way the arm moves from centered, it pulls in the sheet. It'll be inboard of the braces on the arm, most likely as it requires less length to be pulled.
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fitting another servo inside is not a problem with space, it's the associated weight, the more inside means a deeper sailboard to counter the effect - even if it is below the perceived water line, no offence - theres a lot of nautical rigging terms that I cannot fathom, and those that I do know would fit on a postage stamp.
I have an idea but I need to find the energy if not resources to do the testing, things are back on hold for now, as I am still looking for another job (I need to get out of the one I am in as its making me depressed >:-o).
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well an update, my loft and the kitchen are my work areas, the former I have been boarding out in 5.5mm ply and insulation, it gives the shed feel and insulates the roof space, any way as its raining I cannot cut the wood to cover a wall I am cladding, so I did a bit on the victory.
This is the sailboard rudder, as its about centre to the hull, forward of the main mast, to assist in turning the vessel, this rudder is being incorporated into the sailboard, in that the flat area between the keel and the bulb is used.
the following photo's are
1. The parts - outer tube, inner tube, and rudder plate (this will be drilled to allow epoxy etc to secure the lighter plasticard rudder).
Note that the outer tube (about 1/8" dia.) has a cut out about 52mm long extending to about the centre line i.e. leaving about half the tube, the inner tube
(2.38mm dia.) has a slot cut into it to allow for the rudder plate to be inserted.
2. The inner tube inside the outer tube, the brass tube selected was to be as light as possible as I want the weight to be at the lowest point.
3. The rudder plate fitted to the inner tube.
4. The whole lot assembled.
As you can guess the rudder plate will have to be tinned prior to soldering, and great care taken to ensure that solder does not transfer between the tubes, a bigger diameter tube would probably have been a better idea but this is only a trail and has to keep the weight down.
Next up will be to solder this and before I do that I will need to create the leading edge first, so that this can be soldered on at the same time to reduce the risk of the rudder plate from falling out.
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Well, the following is the forward section of the sail board, then the mod to the outer tube after shortening the inner tube, and the whole lot fitted together, just have to design the servo support for both the sail winch and small servo that will turn the rudder, getting these right is important as once the outer tube is cut the inner tube is cut down when the arm is fitted then its all set in stone, I have to remove the inner tube and rudder plate and then cut the outer tube.
before all that, is the all important water test, so some judicial bundling of parts together is required and then setting up the test.
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Recently someone mentioned using tippex correction fluid to control where the solder goes, so painting a layer covering the gap between the tubes would help you reduce risk of capilliary soldering where you don't want it.
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but that stuff is a "xxxxx" to get off as well and may be as bad as the solder {-)
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You've a rudder in the middle of the boat?
That's not going to work.
Andy
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That's the plate that holds the rudder plastic, the idea is that it changes the flow under the center, from sailing sovereign she always seemed to spin on centre, the plastic rudder will extend up to half her length - the middle half, its not complete yet and is just an idea.
Any other detractors before I carry on?, I can always rethink it, the idea is to shift the weight i.e. the bulb etc. up front to counteract the weight of the battery in the rear.
this size of boat doesn't sail very fast anyway - not like a footy or a Marblehead, infact, as with sovereign who sailed more backwards putting the rudder up front might have the better advantage, lol.
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dreadnought72 - put a spanner in the works {-) - haven't been able to think about anything all day at work, other than redoing the sailboard, the other problem with moving the rudder to the stern is that it restricts the amount of space for the battery, I was trying to avoid putting it at the rear as it is very tight, and the last time the solution was not very elegant and gets in the way.
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...from sailing sovereign she always seemed to spin on centre...
And there's the answer why it won't work.
Any rudder when deflected port or starboard from its centreline generates lift, a force in a horizontal direction. Most displacement hulls (like your Sovereign) will tend to pivot about a point more-or-less midway along their keel. By putting the rudder at the transom and creating a moment arm, that lift*distance generates a torque, which enables a hull to turn.
What you have there will generate lift, though much nearer the pivot point: resulting in virtually no torque, but plenty of drag.
If space at the stern is really restricted, you might well be better having the rudder at the front.
Andy
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The lift, in that configuration, will also generate heel, which a model that small will already have an abundance of.
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Thanks, will relocate the rudder and extend the sail board, longitudinally, but try to remove the weight, the 'triangular bit' will go as close to the front as possible with a small thin flat plate running from the bottom of the triangle to the rudder post.
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That makes the rudder new position 100mm forward of the stern - on a 300mm long keel that's a third of the way, so will have to try and push it further back to about 50mm from the stern, as its under the keel it wont be seen easily.
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Okay, todays offering,
These are the two boats supplied, I had previously painted the hulls and top frame and rudder - but not the oars, ran out of white enamel (well it had dried out completely in the tin) so had to use the offering from the helicoptors - those pesky little capped tubs with paint a brush and glue kits (which incidently is what this kit is), complete waste of time for the white, runny like milk, but it's got used, will need to buy a fresh tin later and go over the oars again.
Fitted the shrouds on the foremast, first the bottom ones, hopefully how I fitted these I can do to the main mast - the mizzen is a different story. fitted the next part of the foremast and the crows cradle and then fitted the upper shrouds, these shots show the shrouds with their tails threaded through the miniscule holes I had to drill, some breakouts but once the thread is glued in place and cut back it doesn't look to bad, and when painted - .
After painting the bits black (another tin of painted needed - doh), I fitted the yards, and the final photo is it placed on the warped main deck, when the main mast is done it will be supported on the main deck as well, with the relevant bits secured in their relevant areas, so when the test in water is conducted the boat will be weighted approximately so that when the brass front bit is on I will see what extra weight is needed to keep her upright.
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Hopefully the shrouds won't get in the way of the yards rotating - too much, forgot to mention that the upper part of the mast and the upper yard are wrapped with the middle yard, if I had fitted it, it would be suceptable to damage.
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Well that went well - NOT, >>:-(
Several hours not for much, but......
The first picture is the boats with the painted oars, forgot to include this last time,
The next is the holes cut into the pulleys for the shrouds tails to be threaded through, sometimes a steady hand and no failing eyesight helps, so sometimes breakouts happen - this is the good one and has one of the heads completely removed , bah humbug >>:-(
Threading the shroud through the slit didn't go according to plan, so now a major fixing exercise for the next couple of weeks, not just on this, wrapping the upper shroud round a multitool didn't help, that's got major surgery as well.
Then tried making a makeshift pipebender, that didn't go well either, so tried the manual method and they ain't that bad, just hope they are long enough for the job.
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Now for a bit of gobbledygook %),
Well this week offering didn't go as well as expected, tried to repair the damaged shrouds, the main mast bottom ones went reasonably ok, but the upper ones still have some work to be done,
so started some painting, well it didn't go to plan, trying to paint window frames at this scale is neigh impossible, sovereigns was a lot better, but that was a test and it didn't matter as much, but I want this to look good, so I may have to start all over again.
the skylight is in the same predicament, its difficult to paint the frames at this scale, I haven't painted the poop deck walls in the latest 'magnolia' colour, but a oak colour which I feel would have been more realistic, the upper mizzen mast spar is painted, but its sail is not yet attached, the forward detail where the heads are was a pain, again at this scale.
will have to invest in one of those A4 magnifiers to see if that helps, a x10 camera lens is not easy to use effectively.
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Shrouds have put me off making sailing ships so I applaud your stoicisim.
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Creating them is reasonably easy to do - if you sort of follow the instructions, having to use something to push the underside vertical strands up against the horizontal ratlines is the problem, why, well if you don't, the fixing agent wont stick them together, I thought to repair the upper shroud thinking it might be better in the long run, after seeing the repair I may have to remake them.
My next concern is the painting of the rear, how to paint it accurately is not working, so maybe I need to start from scratch. Also whilst studying photos, the top of the boats is the same ocre with a black line beneath, need to remedy this - Doh.
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oo - forgot to mention, did a wet test - where I sat a Team Magic peak 1200 battery in at the stern, and floated it with the sail servo in situe, she would sit at the waterline most likely with all of the other bits added and weighted to level her off, but looking promising.
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Well - this weeks work didn't go as well as planned either - not having a lot of luck lately >:-o
Bought a helping hands magnifying set up and although it is helpful - its getting use to it, but however I tried to paint the stern it didn't go well so having to try another way. sorry no pictures.
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There are times in a build when things don't quite work out as planned, or progress seems difficult. I have learned that at times like this do not give up. Maybe move onto something else for a while, but always come back to look at things from a new angle with a fresh eye. Been there more than once, got the T shirts, but the satisfaction you will feel when you eventually crack the problems and get her sailing will be all the greater.
You certainly chose a tough challenge. I for one would love to see photos of the maiden voyage O0
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Soveriegns was a family affair with a reel of fishing wire tied to the bowsprite, and pushed out onto a local country park 'pool', there was no breeze so didn't go anywhere, it was just to see if she would stay afloat and to check the stability with a few deliberate pulls to the port or starboard on the masts.
My failing eyesight is starting to worry me, so I need to complete this reasonably quickly, so this week I am going to have to bite the bullet and push on with getting the painting done.
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Here is a shot of her maiden voyage, the square below the hull is the initial counterweight, nearly 200mm (8") below the keel.
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Remember image 0145, well here is the two latest versions the first from monday and the last from tonight, started the cheeks and the front trelless, the blue was a pain to paint.
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Still have to complete the cheeks and the stern, the motif at the top has to be painted - deepjoy. its painstaking work with a toothpick sharpened to a needle point.
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Well this weekends first offering :D
Not as good as I want it to be - but its good enough at a distance.
also the cheeks have been done and are not so bad after a bit of extra work %)
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I going with the weathered look %)
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I agree that having a coupe of projects on the go is best as then you have sonmething you can do while the other one foxes you for a while.
I know it can be frustrating and tempting to throw it away, but then you have wasted all the time you spent on the project originally. (Naturally, if somethig went really really badly where it has been damaged then maybe a restart is wise, but usually it can be fixed.
Looking good so far though :-))
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My problem is no time, leaving for work at 7 am and not getting back for after 6pm, then all the associated running around doing other things, then at weekend catching up on sleep, and then having a few hours to do something on this, its taking ages. but it will get finished.
The batteries are charged - I think, so now I have to dig out a receiver to try the servo out, also pick up the crest for the micro painting - oh and fit the repaired shroud.
I have a plan to make this look as a feature by attaching a pair of crew as if they are repairing it - now that's worth trying.
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apart from eyes being a little strained, still have a couple of crew to build for in the main mast rigging but to name a couple.
here is what I have been doing this afternoon, the first is a little blurry, but the second is a little better and the boats.
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oh what fun ---- not :}
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I also tried out the sail winch, 1 full rotation to the left and 1 to the right, travel to the end was slow and depending where the stick was put to it went quick for 75% of the time and slow for the remainder, so I now have to work out the pull - 25mm for the diameter x 3.142 = 78.55mm. hhhmm not bad, will have to work out what position on the yard it would be to give a full pull to the left or right.
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You'll get there matey.
I like the crest :-)) Give your eyes a rest.
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Okay, the first picture is for the first of three repair crew, he will be trying to grab a vertical line, not painted here, the next is number two, he is shown here in raw form, unpainted here as well, the third picture is of crew man two and three, two is in the rigging as planned and painted, two is holding onto the rope that is being used to pull the shroud in, he doesn't have any arms yet and the rope is wrapped around his waist, he is also unpainted, since this photo, crewman one is fitted and is painted, when I paint number three I will post another picture.
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Pull on the winch is more likely 83mm either direction, based on the drawing that I generated to assist in calculating various items, that means it will rotate the mast to 60° either side of centre.
Now the shrouds may have something in restricting this, so I may have to reduce this pull by securing one end to a fixed point and attaching a little white pulley to the end of the yard, so when it pulls 83mm it actually only moves the yard 41mm or thereabouts, so restricting the yards movement if the shrouds get in the way as they are not exactly flexible.
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Ok, for today,
First various pictures of the repair crew {-).
Then the main mast fitted to the deck and with its foremast.
for those old enough - buckaroo, all the bits put together in there approx. places except for the guns as the amount of additional plastic for the crew and gun ports is enough to cover that O0
Then - wet test pictures,
The first is with the brass that will be in the water temporarily fitted, weight will be added as ballast later.
the next is with the sail winch and rudder servo, no real discerable difference.
then with the proposed battery and receiver - Woah - due to a little bit of miss-positioning of a feature water started to come in so whilst I wait for the glue to set.
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and
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No leaks I hope?
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big one for such a small hole O0
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as its a test, its not a problem, just painting the gun carriages wheels until the glue dries
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Ok, latest
The following is the slow build up of parts to see the effect, I don't have to do buckaroo as I know I would not get all the bits on before it turned turtle, so as you can see the bowsprite helped in levelling out with the battery, but once the decks were on and the mast added, then it got dicey, well the repair crew drowned at one point {-), the last photo shows the 1200mha battery clamped to the sail board - weighing at 112g, not including the clamps, it was still maybe not enough to bring the bow down, but I am sure that whatever I add will still be above the perceived waterline, I hope.
so next will be to fit the sailboard permanently and the rudder and the control mechanism, will need to build the cradle first to allow it to be worked on, and paint the black parts.
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SOOO - after the water test, the hulls been split apart again and now the painting and other things can begin, so as a change I did a bit of crew construction here is how it begins,
1) 6 crew members bodies (formerly the cannons), 2) cut pieces of styrene rod, 5mm and 8mm (in actual fact the lengths never are the same), 3) glue the legs together, some in a different pose than the majority, 4 & 5) attach the 'body' to the legs, 6) leave to set for a while, there is the enevitable one or two that don't want to stay glued, but hey, its a learning curve, 7 & 8) close ups - some I have painted the flesh or black on, some white or all three, 9) gun crew number 1, all pulling the cannon out - now how this is when the ships built will be interesting, but for now as KPNUTS said once, a bit over the top and will be hidden - but I know its there, 10) Gun number 2 with the holes drilled for the crew - note this gun is further back, I am going for the gun practice look, so some will be like this - I do have 16 to do.
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More of gun crew number 1, will try and do some better photos when they are painted. And yes gun two is higher off the deck - need to fix that
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Why is it when you photo the items it immediately shows up the flaws :D
its either my eyesight or I'm tired, so will dunk the crew in white and then do the other colours.
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Todays offering, there a now 5 gun crews, just another 11 to go, and finding a suitable different pose for each crew is difficult, but at least I don't have to do 100.
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Here is todays offering, fitted two crew and 3 cannon since last week, been busy treating the wife to a meal out for her birthday and sorting out a new pc for the youngest (think I got ripped off there >>:-()
any way
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Well its been a while, but I started back on the lower gun crew and they are now installed - though putting the ladders in from above will be a problem - oh well, here are the photo's of the gun crew - sorry they are a bit blurred.
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Finally fitted the hatches over the gun ports, just need to finish painting the chequer.
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And painted chequer, not as good as I wanted but hey, its been a while since I did anything on this, I will paint the copper bottom when shes completed, coating it with matt varnish as well to preserve the paint finish, just like Soveriegn.
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I love the crew! Lots of action. The hats are clveverly done :-)) Crews add a lot of work to a project and so I salute you seeing them through.
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Thanks, they all probably have their heads holding up the upper deck after trying a slight fitting exercise, but as the are under they might not even get seen, couple of things to do like finish the mod to the sail board and keel, weight saving etc, so some soldering next week.
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Got slightly misdirected with work, so no work done yet, though did the new work bench finally, moved the old one and cleared the loft to make more space, just have to tidy the work bench to make things easier to store / find.
One other thing to do is clad the remaining loft to make it more acceptable and tidier, looking to skin the floor with the same ply, as the old loft flooring sheets have been contaminated with dust from the old roof mastic when the roof was replaced a couple of years ago - need to replenish the coffers first. >:-o
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Still trying to fill the coffers, and my shifts don't allow me time to clear the loft.
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I know the chit chat topic is locked - so I will add my tuppence worth here - how long is a piece of string - answer 42, then the reply was 40.5, well if you have two mice around, then they are bound to knaw on the end of it, so both answers are correct {-) {-) {-) {-).
Well still no update to report, shifts are taking up a lot of time, and the temp is too cold to work in the loft, cannot bring it out of the loft as the swmbo has laid down the law on keeping the house clutter free - (she needs to rethink this as the lads rooms are an absolute disgrace, and her side of the bedroom resembles a rubbish tip, lol).
(NOTE - even my texts are not in the youfs language. %) ;)
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(NOTE - even my texts are not in the youfs language. (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/rolleyes1.gif) (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/wink.gif)
That is probably for the best! Not being a subscriber my self, but I have heard from various friends that such a home situation is a key to a less stressful life :}
Anyhow, I look forward to seeing progress when you have the time and temp to get back to it.
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Well, trying to move on a little, the following are the pipes I plan to use to send the cord down into the bowels of the ship, these cords will be connected to the sail winch the other end will attach to the yards on the fore mast, which is in turn to be connected to the main mast and possible the mizzen.
All this is prototyping, the tube have been cut to the same length and the bits on deck that protrude if not flush will be disguised as barrels next to the first of the three guns on the port and starboard sides of the ship, a bracket is needed to hold the bottom to the inside of the hull, it will be out of sturdy plasticard to prevent the tube swinging or dropping, the tube passes through the main gun deck up to the top deck, so slots will be needed to allow it to pass at the edge and then filled in to make the main deck watertight when that is fitted - but that's in the future.
The photos show the tube cut to the shorter of the two tubes, one end exposed and the final shot of the two tubes.
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Just need to clean up the inside edges to reduce the risk of the cord being frayed by the metal.
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Well - cleaned up the ends, without my magnifier set up its difficult to tell if its how I want it but we will see later, used a counter borer drill bit to chamfer the inside and the dremel to clean up the outside etc.
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I put a Phillips bit in a cordless drill and spin it in the end of the tubing which smooths and flares it. You don't have to push hard, and can controol how much flare you get. Be careful though, it gets hot.
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something similar but the intension is not to splay the end, just chamfer, the tube to small in diameter without trying it on some scrap, to get the heat needed I would think my cordless is not fast enough, the heavy duty drill might do the trick though.
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They look pretty smooth to me :-))
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Thanks, if I had splayed the end it may be difficult to retain the length of the short end of the tube, whereas the long end has to fit through the decks and it would be difficult to conceal it as say a barrel.
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And today I have completed the first fix of the tubes to the hull sides, second fix will be above the perceived main deck but below the top deck, some of the crew will be pushing the top deck up from a preliminary inspection -oh well.
I have used epoxy to stabilise it, but even that's gone off now, so before the next fix I will have to get some more.
I am also looking at changing the sailboard, so another test will be required, sealing the two halves together again and trying to replicate the conditions again, this time with the sailboard altered and weighted.
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I can see how the system will work now. Quite clever :-))
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Once the sail winch is fitted and the deck about to go on (possibly screwed on for access - still have to figure that out yet), will have to feed the thread through these and leave the tails tied together under the hull until everything is fitted, once tested then do the remaining rigging.
:embarrassed: :-)
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So, it's been a long time coming, an update.
The first picture is the modified sail board where a piece was soldered on to widen the board, was not happy with my efforts, so the next couple of photo's show today's update, first mark out some brass, next mark the holes, then drill the holes, cut the slots for the tabs and fold them over, finally fit the new sailboard top to the right hand side of the hull.
On doing all this I noticed that the glue for the tubes for the rigging had gone yellow, so i will have to cover them with some fresh epoxy, stripped back the planned pieces of plastic card that were to hold up the deck, since after dry testing the gun deck, some of the crew were a little high, so will have to fit the deck lower, not a major problem, but i had to cut the slots for where the tubes pass through the deck, so that's why the test and subsequent alteration.
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well the hull is together, just have to fill any holes in the keel and glue the bow together, final bit of epoxy filler then to be fitted at the bow. Once that is done fit a plastic card seal over the whole front end to tie it together, then to start fitting the sail winch.
Still have to finish the mizzen mast, so still loads to do, did remove the support for the gun deck as this will allow it to sit further down in the hull to account for the tall crew, have cut and painted a piece of plasticard to cover the lower hatches in the gun deck.
The Sovereign is in the background of the last photo.
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Yesterday did a state of where I am at photo's, with the clips removed and a new bottle of plastic weld, I will need to sand back the white paint to fit the bottom thin plastic card keel cover, also will need to remove any paint over the rear transom area to allow it to be installed before the next water test. (Thats if I finish the levelling off of the washing machine, which is dancing under the new kitchen worktop, and fit the kick boards, oh hum)
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Well as stated, got the washing machine flat - hopefully, might actual head the opposite direction now, the kick boards are on and started on the covering the joint at the keel, two reasons, its a seal and second it adds strength to the two parts being held together.
The rear part I have to decide whether to make it a two part joint i.e. step up in increments so that a battery can slide down to lower in the boat, the transom is on (fitted before adding the strip down the centre).
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This is the sail winch and rudder
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Here is the sail winch and rudder servo fitted, the second picture shows stiffeners added at the hull. Moved the Soveriegn forward to compare where the painting needs to be removed for the other parts fitted to the outside, but I need to build and finish the mizzen first, this is so I can perform the balance in a test tank, i.e. with a full upright rigging.
I do hope in this one I can get less weight in the skeg so that she has a shallower draught weed catcher, also need to do a test run with the batteries, don't know how long the various old batteries I have will last from a supposedly full charge, any links to a relevant thread would be appreciated.
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Here is question that some one might have the answer for, on her mizzen mast there is a gaff sail that has a beam that protrudes over the stern, sorry for not knowing what it's called, it appears to hang over quite a bit, and I was wondering how it is controlled and why it protrudes so much, I know that a 'stay' sail can be fitted between the main and mizzen that is similar to the gaff on the rear, not sure what effect it would have on a ship this size though.
On Sovereign I just made the boom rotate and the had a piece of cord limit how far it swung from left to right, actually on reflection, will need to do the same on this one.
Also noted how shiny the black is - so will have to tone it back.
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Well finally started on the mizzen.
First cut two pieces of tube that closely fit over the new booms - the originals are two flimsy and are warped.
Then bent the tube to suit, with the pieces added.
mixed up some epoxy and attached the booms to the existing mizzen mast.
Finally, wrapped some cotton round it, though may remove this later.
Currently the piece doesn't move as freely as I wanted it to, may have some residue epoxy inside the pieces will free it up later as I progress.
The booms are slightly smaller than the originals and sovereigns as they appeared to be way too long.
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Well, went into the loft and did a bit on the mizzen mast.
1st up was fitting the bottom of the ratlines, found the smallest drill I had and drilled out the plastic ends, then laboriously fed each line into it's corresponding pulley, glued it initially, then tied it off, took quite a while for all 8 rat lines.
2nd, fitted the platform, then the rail at the rear.
3rd, did a dry run of fitting the upper mast, It did not fit, either the designer miss calculated the cut out on the upper mast or didn't allow for a cut out in the bottom mast, so had to create my own, it now fits.
Then I fitted the upper platform, all the masts are only finished to the upper platform last item will be to fit the upper masts, but being fragile I am leaving that for now.
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Next I thought about the gaff sail, when it will be fitted there is nothing to stop it riding up or down the booms so first of was to tie some cotton onto the ends of each boom end, then epoxy it, the corner ties will be on the outside of these so in theory stop it moving along the boom, the ones near the mast will be tied both sides to prevent it going either way, I don't intend to epoxy the sail ties to the bom in case I want to replace them, the sail for this gaff (J on the plans) is currently being flattened and has been cut down significantly to fit.
An initial coat of paint has been applied, just some touch ups here and there, touched up the outside of the hull as well.
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Well did a bit more painting over the mizzen although with the cold it doesn't appear to be drying, also the matt black is not matt, will have to look at that again.
Internally painted the first coat of white where the hull is original colour, so when a torch is shone in it will help see whats in there, a further coat will help.
So the pictures are of the bottom beam on the mizzen - now with its sail attached, apparently is was always carried furled up.
the next is of another sail, then up against the bowsprit, then it being furled, and finally attached.
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And here is my comical offering for today,
I flattened off the black, though will need to tidy it up a bit,
Fitted the first of the ratline pulleys, then wrapped it and fitted the other, then painted it the matt black.
A closer but blurred view,
And finally the upper platform where it is wrapped around and this was also painted, the upper mast will be painted brown eventually.
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Did the topsail and mid sail for the mizzen, had to wet them to get them flat, next would be to affix the gaff sail, then bunch it all up, still have to create the rudder, that will be next week.
Then set up for the ballasting test, first weight the boat dry without the servo's in, then fill the inside with water to the perceived waterline whilst it is the water - then weight it - subtract one from the other and see how much ballast needed, then I will need to find out how much and how deep I will need to make the skeg to give a decent balanced hull.
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Started to fit the gaff sail, initial connection, will be sewing it it the top and bottom, made a small rig to hold a wet wipe as a filter to an opening of this pc, so going to fit that later, then design the rigs for the other fans I have fitted, two in the side panel and another in the rear of the case, the wet wipe even when dry catches a lot of fluff so its worth doing. As the fans push air into the machine it prevents a mess inside the more air in the cooler it is and also the case is under positive pressure.
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Sewn to the booms.
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Tried to think of a way to operate the rudder from the proposed location, so it would be better than the previous ship, and could not come up with anything better, so re-positioned it in front of the rudder position, as it is lower than the other it should allow the batteries to slide in better, need to build a tiller to match and be able to remove it when needed.
Provisionally I am looking to increase the rudder size under the hull to give a greater turn since on this one I am not fitting a motor.
The last photo is that frame fitted with the wet wipe filter, when building the one at the back of the case I came to the conclusion, I am C*ap at building in plasticard.
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OK, the first picture is of the original sail board, cut down to provide the rudder, the lines scribed on it are for the positions of the holes required to lighten it, the holes will vary in diameter to suit the material edge, each hole will also allow the plastic card plating to stick to each other. the second picture is the original shaft that was to be used, it will be shortened to suit and a coupling added between it and the tiller to allow it to be removed, the tiller will be a brass plate on a tube where the tube is secured in the coupling, once built i will try its operation as I don't know if it will operate correctly.
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So here is the next on the list, mojo was hard to start, work beckons in 2 weeks, so need to get a move on. This went from 10 grammes to 7 grammes
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Well had the occasion to go into the loft and get a drill and bits out to hang an item in the lads bedroom (he could have cleaned it up first - but thats another story), anyway drilled a few more holes and according to the scales it went from 7g to 6g then flashed between them until finally stopping on 5g. Next is to clean up the excess solder on the joint, then solder it to the shaft.
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Well, finally decided to do some more on the project, but I forgot to take my phone with me to take some photo's.
A little of the story behind the idea,
I thought, unlike the Sovereign I would make the main and top deck removable to allow access in the future, using a piece of the main deck where the bowsprit passes through as a fixed entity with a small shelf, and the rear bit would be the wall with a small shelf, under the deck would have been a strip each side to create a seal around the underside with tabs in two places to pull it down to keep it tight in position.
So I removed the front bit, fitted a shelf which would have two screws in it to secure the deck, left it for virtually the full week, then I removed the sail winch wheel and threaded the control wires through the tubes, fitted the wheel and secures the control wires.
Then the problem, after trying to install the main deck, it would not sit in the body as the tapering of the hull prevented it, the shelf at the front was at the same height as the original position so the crew protruded above the point I needed them to be at, duh. So I removed the front part for the bowsprit, fitted the main deck in as a permanent part as it would never ever be removable with the size and shape of the hull. Just have to fit the bowsprit and its deck in and the front is partially complete. this bowsprit area was originally to be fitted to do water trails again - but I forgot due to frustration and the main deck is in now.
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So the pictures
1) the front piece of the bowsprit where the mast sides in.
2) the shelf that was supposed to have 2 screws for securing the remaining deck, and the small piece that came off when it was taken off.
3) the result after it was removed to the bow (the cut out in the hull is for the mast).
4) the crew on the main deck in position.
5 &6) another view of the crew.
7) the rudder attached to the post.
The rudder needs skinning and fitting to the stern, unlike the sovereign, this rudder is well below the water line and will have a portion of the kits rudder glued to the above, I have yet to decide how to attach a tiller, so it may be quite a few months before I do it based on the last update time scale, I also need to charge batteries and see if the sail winch is set right - and have the rudder servo centralize.
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And here is the skin out of the rudder, since the photo its been sanded down a little to provide a key for paint, just trying to think of how deep to place it, think I need to do the water test to see how much of counterweight I need.
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Well the first part of the 'wet' test.
1, 2 & 3. the hull and in the water.
4, 5 & 6. the bowsprit, and in the water, surprisingly little effect.
7. the battery pack and receiver in a plastic bag.
8, 9 & 10. the battery pack in position, the effect when after adjusting to be centralized close up, and at distance.
will weigh the battery pack and create a counterweight for underneath, then the rudder will need to be fitted, still trying to decide on the best way, there is less access when the top deck is in position, therefore the smaller battery.[size=78%] [/size]
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The battery pack weighs 89 g, so once I remove the excess servo holder, I will need to create the keel for attaching the ballast to, I also need to fit the main deck and masts to work out the ballast for this and see where she sits in the water.
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Well, I have removed the excess servo support, just need to file it down to be more presentable.
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warspite I really have to admire your tenacity of getting this right. We are usually having to put loads of lead into our boats to get them right not having to measure grams to get it to float correctly. Good luck mate I really hope this all works out ok as the model looks amazing!
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The following is a photo of the rudder tiller before it was shaped, although the next two photo's didn't come out sufficiently good enough to put on here, so the following photos are the existing rudder attached to the rudder shaft, as this is out of the water it has to look the same as the kit the actual rudder will run inside this and be under the vessel - yep a weed catcher, but until the rudders done I cannot do the next water test which entails the remaining decks and masts.
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Well, you know when you have a plan on how to do something and then everything goes horribly wrong, well the rudder assembly did just that.
It started by first cutting the rudder shaft to the correct length, so far so good, then it came to fitting of the tiller, initially I envisaged adding another piece to the tiller to extend it along the rudder so as not to fit a spacer, that's when it went wrong. it looked like the plan was not going to work as the solder would release so I carried on with the next phase, attaching the tiller to the rudder shaft so that it could be removed, so with a fine pin drill, drilled a hole through the body of the tiller then it broke half way through with the tip still in the hole, so got a bigger drill and drilled just above it all the way through, the tip then fell out. Lined up the shaft to the tiller body at 90 deg and drilled through, that went ok, after a bit of a clean up, fitted the rudder, but then found I needed to remove the servo to get access, then it was trying to find a piece of wire that would do the job, to act as a cotter pin, too thin or too thick, the 3rd picture shows a piece of wire that would fit but was so hard to bend it fell out after a few rotations, the slackest was a piece of 1.5 mm copper wire, which worked but after a dry fit and the servo fitted again the fit was so slack it was useless, so it was stripped down and a screw was then tried and at the moment this is where it is at, but the next time I will be looking for a shorter screw if not a bolt to replace this one. Oh and the spacer wouldn't slide on so thats missing as well, it's just visible on the 3rd picture under the tiller arm.
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From these pictures you can see the error in the kit from an earlier time, the kit always had issues with the fit, the 3rd and 4th pictures show the support feature for the mizzen deck, but the side parts dont meet the body when the galleries are fitted flush to the stern so the mizzen deck will be smaller than the gap it fits, so this is where some infill will take place, hopefully it will all come good.
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When i was a lot younger i dribbled over the Airfix Victory but it was way at the top of the kit price range and at 17/6 it was way too expensive but I did eventually buy one. The hull was black plastic and the whole thing around a foot long.
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Now that is a strange kit - black, from my first one in the early 70's, it was the same colour as my HMS Sovereign (victory in a different guise) a darker brown than this one, I have noticed it depends on the version, usually as depicted in the box art or as a special edition for say an anniversary, the 70's version I had, it had the climbing nets already made in like a rubber material, you just cut them out and attached them like any other part of the kit, whereas WASA you had to make them up like as the current kits.
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That looks 'Amizzen' Warspite!
It is good to see you back at it. Building the kit in its basic form is enough work without adding all the extra bits over the last year or so :}
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Well the next wet test,
1. The new rudder - yes I know quite deep, but I wanted the kit rudder in place.
2. The combined weight here is 106 g without the wire.
3. The 53 g washer is to account for the battery that's on charge.
4. The main deck on top of the hull which will need to be force fit into place eventually as the gun deck is lower and pulled the sides in - doh!
5. The red cap indicates the water level which is difficult to see, she appears to be a little down at the stern for this part of the test.
6. Another view closer to the water.
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The next set of photo's,
7. Here the weight has been increased to 159 g, as when the masts etc. were added and the associated other pieces placed on the main deck, it tried to turn turtle, so it has sat slightly over to the left, when the weights are being fitted eventually this will be adjusted to suit.
8. The reason for the whole sprue is to account for those parts not sat on the deck, in fact the mizzen mast does not have the remaining spars on it as well.
9. The water level is hard to see here and with her listing to the left, it is deceptive that she is at the water line, as the water line is also slightly higher anyway.
10. Another view.
11. Still trying to get a clear view.
12. A stern view showing the list.
13. And a view of the right side.
As you can see the mizzen deck is still causing problems, in fact in the first attempt the main mast fell off and dropped into the water, so some extra weight there, as did the mizzen, so once the top deck is on things should fit better.
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In the last picture - it shows the main deck rubber banded to the top so I could attach the masts and see how much weight was needed to stop her from rolling, well if you look under the deck there is a strip of plastic each side for strength (though the molding process meant the deck has a bow downwards anyway), well this strip each side effects the crew under as well so I need to cut this out over the length of the gun area on both sides (and stand up some crew who are falling down on the job), so until I am off again, I will begin to do the mod then and get the main deck on, then I have to see if the tube for the rigging on the left has been effected. Slowly getting there.
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Well on inspection it appears one of the gun crew jumped ship, suspect he is in the waste box, so, technically lost at sea.
The first pictures show the stiffeners having been removed, then the deck attached and the forecastle / head panel added, as I said the gun deck is slightly lower than the kit requires, about 1-2 mm, so the sides are pulled in a little more than they should be, so fitting the main deck has been a struggle, in fact the forward part split - hence the copper piece, that is pulling the base of it out until it is glued in permanently, hopefully when the glue sets and the rubber bands are removed.
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Also on the right, due to the deck fitting problem, she lost a few of the noggins that populate the forward part, something I will have to add later.
Once the deck is fully glued on i.e. the rear part, then I can do a test to see if the cords move properly as the sides have moved slightly, and paint the bit I missed i.e. the gun deck grating, it should be brown, and fit the pillars that wouldn't have survived the deck fitting phase.
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Well, the first picture is of the side where I just removed apiece of wire that was pulling the side out where it had split, then the next set of photos are of the painting and the attempt to fit pillars under the main deck and the ladders, got one in at the boat area and one from the main hatch to the gun deck (should have fitted these first - in fact should have planned the crew around them being behind the ladders).
And finally the bowsprit is fitted, leaving for the rest of the day to see if the epoxy cures, then the detailing to be done on this area.
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Here is the next bit of detail, after epoxy fitting of the bowsprit, I started the 'sewing' it to the hull, so it took a while, its not bad and came out better than I hoped, also drilled the holes for the Boomkins, so they do not break off, like sovereign I am doing them in brass, the vertical is a bit of square section fitted into the deck with a bent piece of hollow rod soldered into it, in sovereign they point upwards, but since I now have a copy of the Anatomy of the ship Victory, they will be correctly orientated.
Also noted one of the doors needs a bit more black.
With a copy of the Airfix instructions I need to plan what goes where before I fit the masts and the associated rigging, and try out the servo operation.
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{-) {-) {-) >>:-( I was just checking something and found I dropped a boo boo, doh forgot to put the wings on before the tie downs, which would be more difficult to fit with the wings fitted, but oh dear start again.
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This is such an amazing build - and warspite your determination to get this sorted is just admirable :-))
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Thanks,Due to the large time differences between working on it - I forget what I was going to do, though in this instance I just didn't check, doh.
Fit the davits.
I have to try and find things for the crew to do, some are pre-determined i.e. captain and admiral and another officer on the mizzen deck above the wheel, with 4 marines near the stairs, a couple of marines around various parts of the main deck, two crew holding the wheel, 3 are going to be employed doing a sail repair (hopefully) and a couple of scamps bringing buckets up from below for the upper 6 gun crews to practice with their crews milling about, but that all has to be fitted before the masts and the rigging - and I have to test the operational capability of the sail winch by shortening its travel by some means if necessary.
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Well on Sunday morning before going to work I removed the sewing, soon will fit the cheeks and start again.
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Well what a pa lava, the cheeks were fitted and the assembly left overnight to 'cure' with suitable clamps, the photos show the before and after sewing the bowsprit on, which with the cheeks did not give much room, the rear part required a bit of lateral thinking that I employed on the first attempt, I folded the thread into two at the end and used glue to make it at least partly solid, to act as a needle. then after tying the first part started the laborious job of threading it in and out (must point out even after an hour since finishing it my eyes are still not adjusted to be able to write this).
Anyways, the front part was easier, I could use an actual needle to thread in and out so it went faster for that part,then I fitted the front board, the remaining stairs to below, the entrance to the orlop deck and then the boats, still have to sew the boats to the runners to finish it off.
just need to sketch the deck and position crew accordingly and fit the deck parts before starting on the masts.
For those of you more astute - in the third picture, yes there is a loose thread that's been cut out now.
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Other than a bit of painting to tidy up, the following are just the furniture, the bell and stove pipe need painting before fitting, you can see how bad the fit for the mizzen deck is by the gaps present at the back, and previously mentioned the sides are pulled in a bit, so the front portion has had to be 'altered a little for it to fit.
I also have to make some crew figures, so the speed of the build will slow down significantly as the scene progresses (and as I get each of them jobs to do), fitting the crew will be before the masts go in and rigging as space is a tad tight.
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well, just spent some time tying the boats down, though could be better, again the eyes are tired so will leave it for now.
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The last picture showed the replacement screw to hold the tiller in place, still have to test it again.
The latest two pictures are of a bit of detailing, the ropes at the base of the masts around the stocks (need to read the book to show the correct names), the last picture shows a length running from one of the forward stocks, this is for crew to be 'hauling sail', hopefully this will turn out ok.
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Apparently they are Bitts
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Apparently they are Bitts
Spot on :-)) Bitts are usually two parallel stocks and the rail at the base of a mast I think is called the fife rail. So much detail on such a tiny model. Great job!
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So as not to forget the part and then struggle to fit it, I fitted the crest, then there is the mizzen deck Bitts, and the proposed idea for the crew for the hauling sail and the mizzen deck.
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Pull the lines over a piece of beeswax before fitting them. This will remove the fuzzyness that you have.
Jim
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At this scale the fuzzyness is not as noticeable as you would think - and the decks going to get more crowded later anyway.
As it's a plastic kit converted to a sailing boat, the detail is for when it's out of the water and I don't think anyone is going to be looking quite that close.
Just in from work, bit of a rest then maybe just maybe get the end sailor started.
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Ok, First Picture is of the crewman type, the figures worked out are from the internet.
Q - what height were people in the 1800's, A - 168.2 cms or 5' 6" for the imperialists %) .
therefore, at 1:180 this equates to 9.5 mm rounded up, the arms are 3 mm, body 5.5 mm and the legs 4 mm, though to fix one leg down as shown previously, one is cut at 6 mm.
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For some reason the text resizes, so having to start another bit.
The cannons on the sprue.
The 8 crew torso's.
The crew mans torso.
The leg and arms stock material.
Right and left leg, i.e. 4 & 6 mm lengths.
The drill bit.
The badly drilled hole.
The torso and legs glue together and to the cutting mat - Doh.
The crew man assembled, needs painting before fitting to the deck.
So before starting the next bit of assembly will need to get a new set of collets for the Dremel, the one supplied is for the sanding shanks etc and not the drill bit seen, all the other collets I have are for a variety of other types of mini drills.
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Well he has two companions now and a third on the way.
Will be better when they are painted to hide the squareness.
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and number 4
(need to stop moving them around, or is that a clever ruse to think there is more of them)
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the not so magnificent seven,
and the sweeper upper
he has been modified to look better
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And after the white coat - looks like a scene from a comedy film where the whole place is covered in white wash.
just for those observant enough, the guy in the foreground on the left is kneeling and as yet to have his arms attached - (come back and i'll bite your knee caps off - can you remember where that saying comes from? )
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And after a bit of detailing, though some appear to have acquired noses, now they look like a convention of badly acting Frankenstiens %)
Now I have to fit them to the hull, will get this boat finished some day
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the first is of 'Elvis' getting a neckachief.
the next two show them in position, though after getting the picture on the computer, it shows the problems with them, like they are not grabbing the line or the paint hasn't covered certain parts or the glue looks like they have wet themselves.
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Oh! - I forgot the cleaner - looks like he's got the pox and looking at the camera and saying 'what you looking at'
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Well, here is the rest of the crew, as yet to be made, 42 to be precise.
Next is an out of focus picture of the kneeling cleaner.
Decided to fit a hand rail on the posts on the mizzen deck.
Then started the stretching cleaner. First his legs are fitted.
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Then his arms were fitted.
the kneeling cleaner has his arms fitted as well.
then 'Superman' - well the officer in charge of the hoisting crew.
all need painting - CAREFULLY
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Well the Bosun is painted, and apart from getting rid of the paint on his face, he's finished.
Although a lot can be said for the cleaning crew, kneeling man needs finishing off with a hat, and stretching man needs a bit of a touch up - oo-er as frankie howard would say, the rail and first part of the steps are also painted, though most of the area in front over the railing will be scratched off again when the buckets are added.
so tomorrow of to get some fresh matt 61 and 2 mm evergreen rod for buckets.
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I have to admit when I saw the first pics of the crew figures I laughed but when I got to the last pics I saw they actually look the biz, nicely done mate. :-))
Joe.
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I am surprised that the phone camera shows up so many errors - considering that the figures are 9.5 to 10 mm high and are just a cannon and bits of plastic rod cut into a length of 8 (used to be 6) 4 x 2 and 5 x 2 mm's and copious amount of liquid glue and paint, and the painting done with tooth picks, sometimes the unpainted guys look better, since as soon as they are painted the gaps that are supposed to be there get filled up.
I am going to try and paint with a bit of the rod that is used for the arms next to see if I can improve the finish.
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Yes at this sort of scale I find the camera is more critical than our eyes, but at 1:180 they look fine to me :-))
Joe
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The new paint is a bit lighter than the old one and using a small length of plastic rod does appear to be easier to control.
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The next set of pictures,
Two crew, one kneeling, the one on the left and one sitting, the one on the right.
Legs ready for crew bodies.
The sitting crewman plus the bucket he is sat on fitted.
The sand buckets and in the background the first of the three Boys, built earlier see picture IMG 0017.
The two other buckets for the cleaning crew and the boy who is carrying the buckets.
The kneeling crewman just needs the paint finishing, and the unfinished sat down crewman (wait till you see what he's up to later) :} [size=78%] .[/size]
These strips of 5 mm high styrene when cut to length are going to be the hammocks in the side racks - so will need to be painted a canvas colour and have black lines to indicate the post and rails, but even I cannot find a mesh small enough to show on the sides or place at the bow where the head is.
And a guy with a pole, there is another walking but haven't a photo of him or the officer up against the rail, trying to see over the sand buckets. :D
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well here is crewman with a pole again,
Helmsman right and left
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Bit of running repairs,
The crew now hold the rope.
The wooden battens either side of the bell are now painted as is around the deck opening.
The main stair hatch has also been painted.
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Mizzen fitting, when the kit is built as per the instructions there is an error in the mizzen deck or in the cheeks that attach to the sides of the hull.
First the deck fitted, the officer is looking over the buckets to see where the main deck is.
The fit means that the mizzen deck does not get to the sides, if the cheeks are fitted correctly that is.
So first off, the two supports need to be fitted.
Then the fit shows the supports under the deck, there is a lip on the back but its not really that big, a strip will be added later, the gap will be covered with a couple of strips of styrene, all will be revealed.
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So the main deck guns,
The Cannon.
The underside of the cannon with a hole drilled.
The pin in the hole in the underside of the cannon, this secures the cannon to the deck.
The wheel and binnacle.
The first two guns fitted, none are run out, so they do take a lot of space up here.
All 6 in position, as you can see they are quite big for the area.
The rope lines will be sorted later, no gun crew are planned for here, as yet.
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Well after the mizzen deck was fitted the cleaners asked for a hand, I get the feeling he looks sea sick.
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Finally in this series,
A sail cloth roll or a sail rolled up, your choice.
Placed on the deck for 'Donald'.
Donald on his stool with a sail over his lap.
Donald has his arms fitted.
Views of Donald at work, he likes a bargain which is why hes into sails. %) ;D [size=78%] [/size]
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Todays bits,
The guns do line up with the ports.
The Helmsmen in position, though when the mizzen is on they really cannot be seen that well.
A poor shot of the ropes being attached to the wall, still need a lot of work on this bit.
A box for Donald and some rods, the items hide the epoxy over spill.
And the last two are the next projects, once the cannon ropes have been secured etc., the brass bits are the Davits in the hull, due to them hanging over the side they would be knocked off quite easily, so in brass they protect the hull and guard against falling off, same goes for another part of the build, still have to cut the hollow box section for that and the rod.
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Well didn't do much today as time taken up with my eldest's dentist appointment - 4 hours I won't get back. >>:-(
Did some sketches for the standing rigging and moving rigging, also how the yards are to be linked together, the issue now as has always been the sail winch travel and its effect on the sails movement.
When you lay one sketch on the other it shows the disparity in the yards heights, as long as the connecting lines between the top yards and lower yards are the same distance from the pivot point then as one moves so should the other 3, i.e. foremast lower yard connected to main mast lower yard, similarly the top yards, if the lines that are connecting the top yard to the lower yard are good enough then they could in theory rotate each other, but that wont happen, so i will have to split the sail winch line between the top and lower yards on each side.
The pictures are:-
1. The foremast standing rigging, L is the expected linking point between fore and main masts.
2. The main mast standing rigging, again L is the expected linkage.
3. The mizzen mast standing rigging, surprisingly there is no connecting lines to the channel running alongside the mizzen deck area, though to gain access to the battery and receiver the mizzen deck is removable and on Sovereign I used a hook for connecting the ratlines to the yard on the mizzen mast for each side, that has yet to be built in.
4. The standing rigging between the fore and main mast, with the linkage lines initially shown as dotted, also the connections to the bowsprite.
5. The sail winch connection to the foremast, as the lines run up the main mast to the underside of the platform and then go forward of this to the foremast.
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Today's update (and yesterday's as well).
To fix the mizzen decks lack of width, fitted cheeks to the deck, after shortening the back of the deck where the knee's are.
Then created the two Boomkin's, the first pic is of one of them and the second pic is the tiny hole I have to drill in the ends, it's all painted black at the end.
The next set of pic's is the tiny holes for the standing rigging on the bowsprite.
Then the holes through the hull at the beakhead. Yes there is a hole through the scroll area, again for ropes to the Boomkin, the double hole next to the scroll is for the ropes to the bowsprite and act like gammon's I believe, though the book and the sketches on the internet show only two, the ship currently has had an extra one added since the 1960's, all current photo's show this extra rope to the bowsprite.
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This is a setting out marking for the bits added to the sides of the ship, it will become apparent later on.
These holes are larger and are for the davits in the sides.
The stern davits are just shown in position.
The port and starboard stern davits, but fixed with epoxy, will need to clean some of the epoxy off later and to paint them, they are in brass to prevent them being knocked off and work very well on the other ship, the side davits are being fitted in stages as the epoxy has to cure, the same goes for the Boomkins, as these are susceptible to damage and the will have rope fitted as well (want to make this look half decent).
Unsure as to whether create the flags locker at the stern as well, will need to think about it.
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Well todays update,
The right & left side davits, the thread is to stop them dropping down till the epoxy cures.
The carronades and them fitted.
The standing rigging on the Bowsprite, these will be painted Black, as the black thread I have is too thin, and then the brass bits will be painted again.
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The latest update,
The standing rigging on the bowsprite is painted and three lines to just above the round houses added.
The davits are given their first coat of black paint.
The two ropes at the beak added, on Victory at the moment there is 3 but pictures in the book and from the 50's & 60's only show the 2.
The next 3 pictures are the boomkins, to be painted black and threaded, though the impression I get they are like davits, fixed at the base and they are lifted via lines from the foremast.
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Well, the following 3 pictures are of the foremast,
Before I start the standing rigging.
The 4 black ropes are temporary, they are holding the spars level.
The rear shows the standing rigging, I have yet to interconnect the main and upper spars, of which I have to paint the tree before hand after fitting the upper mast, fitting the upmost spar is going to be a challenge as I have to tie it keep it from being broke off.
All very delicate work. {:-{
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Here is this mornings work, hopefully I am off on holiday from Wednesday and I can do the main mast.
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Well - thats 7 days I will never get back, the cough and cold put paid to anything being done to the Victory, but today I fitted the front ratline platforms, once they are painted I will fit the foremast, also couldn't remember if I mentioned I had repainted the rear of the ships boats (and from the photo - Badly).
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Hope I've got this right (should know after this many years though >>:-( ) started on the Starboard side, the foremast fitted and the ratlines fitted, now have to give the eyes a rest as every things gone blurry.
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This is at 1:180 so does not count in the latest 1:200 discussion over the titannic thread {-)
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Good luck with your rigging mate - I admire anyone that can do this as there are so many books on this complicated subject. I'm sure you will get it sorted :-))
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It's an Airfix kit - so it's designed as not too difficult for the modeler, I'm just making it hard for myself, I do have 8 weeks to fill :P
I have noticed I put the lower main yard on the wrong way, so it doesn't rotate around the mast as easily as I would like, but I have a fix planned.
Port side to be done today.
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Well started on the port, to make it easier to see where the thread is going I placed a piece of white paper behind the eyes, to a certain extent it worked better, the first 3 photo's show the fitted ratlines, not perfect but it's a project.
The rotation of the yard was fixed partly by tying thread to the ring part and securing it to the hook part, the next photo's show the arc at which the yard turns, not bad really.
I then have to rig the main mast.
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So, only one picture today, though it has taken a while to get the thing done.
When I put the sails on the yards, I left a large amount of thread on each one, It just occurred to me why, the ropes hanging down the sail for tie to hold it onto the yard when folded up, but I have double knotted them all and cut them short, I could add them at a later date, so been spending the last hour or two sorting them on the main mast yards and done a piece of standing rigging. Tomorrow I will try the top yard and fit that before the middle yard
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so the top yard was fitted to the top mast and then fitted, as was the middle yard and the standing rigging added, will either fit the mast later today or tomorrow and start the rat lines. Rotation about the mast is better on this mast as I have ensured the standing rigging is set further up, when its released from the tie downs then I will know if it's worked or not, then I can get on with the forward rigging and some touch up painting.
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Hi Warspite, Its great to see you are still persevering with the Victory and that you are very near to completion!! She looks fab and I salute your efforts to crew her so extensively. Are you trimming or reinforcing the edge of the sails so they are more efficient and last longer? I hate to think of you having to replace them too soon.
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To be honest, I don't think the boats going to be on the water that often after a few goes - it's a project to see if the kit bits can be used, with a little bit of tweeking, the crew are to give a little bit of subject matter and I have them on Soveriegn, it's been a while since I built a boat as time is either scarce or I don't have the mojo (to finish of the gun deck I spent ages doing nothing), so the sails are being left as a weathered look, at a distance its the shape, close up to be honest they should have been sorted before I started so if she sails well and I want to go that extra mile I will replace them, though at 1:180 it's going to be difficult to edge them.
Fitting the rat lines fore channel and lanyards for the main mast when I get them from the loft (checked the book for what they are called)
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The sails efficiency is minuscule, if you look at the photo's in the background is my keyboard the smallest sail is about 90 mm wide x 45 mm deep, the biggest is 150 mm wide x 95 mm deep, the amount of push they give is going to be so small, waiting for it to get to the other side of any water is going to a one way voyage even in a stiff breeze.
On youtube, there is a clip of sovereign and if you time it takes her to move 10 metres it's a long wait, 1:44 minutes, only at 1:30 does she pick up speed.
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Port and starboard fore channels and lanyards
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Well did the rat lines, what a pain, they look like they are a repair job close up, the starboard side were shorter than expected and the use of two tweezers was used, though it still needed more thread and they are slack, so will have to pull the mast forward when the lines go between the main mast and foremast.
The rear fore channels and lanyards will be fitted with the hook and eye system, that it to say when the fore channels are fitted the ratlines will be separated and secured to each respective, the top of the rat lines are then connected to either an eye or a hook and the respective hook or eye is fitted to the mizzen mast.
Trying to get these lines tight is a bug bear, as I don't want to break the piece it's connecting to.
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At least you made the effort and got them complete. She's looking fab :-))
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I think it calls for some crew doing the repairs other than those on the main mast
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Rather than start a crew man or two for the repairs of the ratlines, I decided to install a couple of bowlines and a set from the formast to the bowsprite.
As the thread is thick it's ideal for the standing rigging, but being white I have to 'TAR' it, so it's painted matt black.
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Well, this morning fitted the standing rigging of the bowsprite and foremast (which looks crooked at the moment), will have to install a correcting line to straighten it (think I will hide it under the starboard rat lines.
Tried that and ended up cutting the starboard side standard rigging at the fore channel - DOH, fitted the tension line hidden at the rat lines and it's not pulled it tight enough to straighten the mast - OH well.
Anyway here are the photos of the standard rigging for the foremast and bowsprite before the errors.
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Here is the before I tidied up the thread and after - not much difference really.
and you can see the single thread line set against the sail.
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On reflection, I need to run some white thread up the back of the foremast and main mast to simulate the ropes going up, and fit other crew members.
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well done it, boy my eyes hurt and my mental state ta boot as well,
Well the first is the foremast and second is the main mast.
Whilst tightening the main mast ropes, the Bitt lifted on the port side, so need to fix that down more securely.
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Well, after a sleepless night after the 3 am dawn chorus >>:-( , I started on the rest of the standing rigging.
The first photo is of the top sail on the foremast, it's been tied to the yard below, noticed in the photo that the yard has slipped to starboard, it slides to port but will probably slip back eventually. I also tied the sail below to the yard below that, as yet, the lower sail is yet to be secured, but once the rotation is worked out when the sail winch is connected.
The next is the standing rigging to the Main mast, there is a appreciable amount of bow backwards once fitted.
just wondered, how do you put the text under each photo? looked though the help bits and there is nothing on how to do it (or I am just missing the instructions).
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Next is the lower standing rigging from the main mast to the rail at the front, the port side went ok, and to be honest looks great, the starboard side done second is a mess, it started out ok then went to pot.
Then did the middle two lines pulling the main mast upright from the bowed position and finally the top line, must be tired as started to notice a couple of mistakes, like not threading the thread correctly at the top of the main mast or that the middle standing rigging is pushing up the top sail on the main mast, oh well.
I also tried the taught hitch method on this size of thread and it doesn't slide - it just tightens up and becomes impossible to work with.
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I upload my images first and then use my mouse to get the cursor between images so that I can use the shift button to make some space for typing. It might depend on the method you upload your images? I upload them individually so I can control layout.
Looking good matey, especially those 'tars' pulling the rope :-))
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Well here is the last update for today.
The standing rigging is painted (eyes are hurting now).
Decided to try and hide the Arial for the RX, so after many attempts to try and have the RX sit so that it comes out easily so the battery can be detached, its going to sit about here.
Then the arial is secreted along the deck and out through a porthole and run up the ratlines - and down the other side for now, its not pretty and I will reposition it as it doesn't look right.
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Had to put the standing rigging lanyard between the back two sets of ratline lanyards otherwise they would have been destroyed by the cannons, still not sure how to run the arial up the main mast - its not like its going to be sailing at any distance anyway, over protective - nervousness etc etc.
The following picture shows the first attempt to run the arial up the ratlines and back down - and back up again, as its not taught it looks a mess and might cause damage to the ratlines so it needs to be relocated, taking it up to the tree doesn't look like an option either so I think it will have to be pulled back to run inside the hull, don't know how effective it will be though.
The main mast main yard is also lifting and yesterday was found to have 'detached', so like the foremast it's been tied down, something that would have been better doing earlier than at this late stage, though using the fasteners shown it's an experiment so live and learn.
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Decided to try this layout, apart from tying the Ariel to the platform I will leave the rest in the hull, on the second picture the piece at the bottom is that to be shoved into the hull.
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And finally today,
Missed one of the standing rigging lines between the fore and main mast (don't know how that happened), it'll get painted later when there is some more to paint, like at the bow and when I have figured out how to rig the mizzen.
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Well starting on the mizzen deck, after looking at what lines go where, initially I was going to run no lines for the mast, then I thought, OK where on the deck could I fit them so that when the decks removed all the lines come with it, so the plan is to fit the standing rigging to the two loops created at the rear, yes they are forward of where they would normally be, but as the deck is tapered and the point where the loops would go is on the new fitted bits, I decided that these points were likely to break off and I have put them where the ratlines go, so why not just behind the lanyards as in the fore and main mast, well I am fitting the ratlines to the fore channels and putting a hook on the ratlines so they can be removed and therefore the deck, it has two functions like on Sovereign, the appearance is maintained of ratlines to the mast and second the ratlines hold the deck on as it's then hooked on.
First photo is of the loops, the deck needs to be painted to hide the new deck widening parts.
Then the paint removed on the mast under the platform.
The two sets of hooks and eyes, note that the hooks have a feature built in that is actually a problem, to prevent the eye from easily sliding off the hook, they fitted a small spring or bump as the folding process, it makes getting the eye of the hook difficult and is seen on the main and fore masts, depending on how the folding went it can make it easy to keep the yards on or frustratingly annoying as the yard falls off, hence why I tied the yards to the hooks.
And the modified hooks on the mast, note the bump removed as I don't want the eyes to be held on as it will be difficult to remove them when the deck has to come off.
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Well, yesterday decided to do a bit on the mizzen mast, tied the hooks to the underside after the epoxy cured, it needs painting yet soooo.
I thought access was getting a little tight so fitted the bosun in charge of hauling sail - look up you've got it caught.
Then the man with a pole.
Then two marines having a natter by the carronade, trying not to look as they are so as not to get into trouble.
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I also added the Admiral and captain - captain what ships do I see off the port side {-)
Oh and a runner to send orders wherever, bit of a chunky monkey this one.
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The ship appears to be infected with wood worm
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Doh made a mistake when attaching pictures, will try again. >>:-(
OOps my mistake, its for crew anchoring down.
I also broke off the arm of the last kid, but I also need to make a crewman coming out of the lower deck so he cannot be fitted until he is done, as it is apparently going to be raining or overcast this afternoon, I might get a crew man finished.
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She's as much a slice of life aboard ship as an RC model!
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Well, not really done much,
secured the top yard to the top part of the mizzen mast, after which it dawned on me, I have not secured a piece of aluminium to the mast and therefore its only as strong as the kit plastic, easily broken, so will add a piece in the future, I also did the running rigging for it.
Painted the rope over the hooks, the top part will need careful painting in black before fitting the middle mast and securing it, then to fit the top part of the mast and run the standing rigging.
I also painted the repaired kid - it was his arm that is sticking out that was broke off, and one of the other crew, still have to make another crew man and finish the two for the repair crew that are part finished before starting on the body-less two others.
I do think I made too many marines, up to now I have used 4, two at the carronade and two on the mizzen deck, 13 destined elsewhere leaving 8 to be positioned in other places so 2, 3 or 4 may be transfer to sovereign
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Oh dear, he's back again,
The following are of a guy climbing the stairs with a barrel, until he is painted I cannot fit the rest of the crew.
Fitted the top part of the Mizzen mast, still have to do the standing and running rigging.
The anchors using a anchor hitch, which with the thread being used unravels quite quickly, so I sew them up.
1st attempt over sewn, 2nd anchor a little better and showing how the hitch is created, 'T' great t 'in T net'.
Now off to sunbath :}
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He's back,
While fitting the guy on the steps, I had to open up the hole for him to be fitted, when doing so the stairs came away and I had to glue they back on with the guy attached, but I have just noticed that when I took the photo's the stairs didn't glue back on straight, so though no photo they are reasonably back in position, the kids fitted as well, at a distance they look right, it's the photo's that show up the faults.
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And the rest of the crew, well actually there will be others but as yet have to think about who they are and what they are doing.
The marines.
The marines captain, and the port side repair crew, though the one on the edge may eventually get knocked off.
(Unlike martin I am not mentioning the number of times I have knocked and dropped stuff).
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Crewing ships can get obsessive! I have painted hundreds of 6mm crew over the last twelve or so years, though making them as well is even more impressive :-))
Keep up the good work.
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Adding crew as they are finished, this one has been waiting a while to be added.
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Then the other repair crew, this couldn't have worked out better. O0
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Well been a little bored, so this morning did the running rigging on the mizzen and tied the sails down, not the best work (is any of it), still have to do the Driver boom and gaff, unsure how to do it to allow the driver to move and still show the lines
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Still bored, fitted the driver gaff line, it's tied to the underside of the platform.
I also fitted the driver boom line, this threads through the eye for the ratlines and is yet to be tied off, will do this to the bitt at the base of the mast, still have a few lines to run up the mast from the bitt when the mast is fitted to the deck.
The ratlines connection is looking a little tight, will need a way of fitting them at the pond side that wont damage the whole set up.
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I think your figures get better and better! You have had enough practice :}
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Thanks, I have only 3 up a mast and one of them is in the ratlines trying to fix it.
Still have to wet test the hull with a battery in and see what weight is needed on the front sailboard.
Would have done more but a job came up, and there is shopping tonight (though not likely anything available).
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Yesterday fitted these, they represent the hammocks stored as protection, the painting on them is as atrocious as the crew.
Starting the mizzen deck next.
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A further update - looks like I am confined to this thread >:-o
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This picture is of one of the front foresails and it fitted, spent all of yesterday hemming the rough edge and when it was fitted it's as rough as a builders pair of on show undies, still have to do the front foresail, it's been hemmed but now considering hemming the front edge and creating loops for the rigging.
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Well here is the front foresail, hemmed and the rigging attached and it all fitted, though the top corner fixing of the sail came loose had to re-attach with a jury rig, doesn't look as bad as first thought, connected both foresails to the front bitt, through the rail to look as it's been done to allow access forward.
Trying to work out out to simulate the boomkins lines, they originally are off a block on the main fore mast yard, but that would restrict the sails ability to rotate.
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Fitted the first of the 4 anchors, trying to thread the lines through the rat lines etc is a pain but I still need to paint black some of the thread
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Lovely matey! You are doing all sorts to this model. You are nearly there, keep up the good work.
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Lovely matey! You are doing all sorts to this model. You are nearly there, keep up the good work.
Yep I agree - most builders don't fit the sails as they are so hard to do. Nearly there now its going to look great!
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Thanks guy's, the eyes are taking the toil, and I fitted the next anchor.
There is a lot wrong with it I would do differently if building another (not a chance - two's enough), not even considered the other rigging yet, may leave it as it might get in the way, I regularly check the foremast and main mast yards rotate, they dont turn that much, but enough, the fun will be when the sail winch is operated to see how much thread is available to get to the foremast.
Still need to do some painting to fix issues.
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Now the start of the mizzen ratlines, to ensure they disconnect from the mast, the hook and eye is now coming into play.
First secure the starboard ratlines to the channel lanyards, to allow the tails to be tied the whole lot is pulled down to the first step.
Then tie a length of thread to the tails of the ratlines and secure the eye to this, wrapping the whole lot to ensure it doesn't come off.
The completed assembly, it looks loose but at least it's attached, and the eye should be able to stay attached and more importantly hold the mizzen deck on if things lift up, just need tweezers to attach and disconnect.
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And the port side, looks like the repair crews been up top :((
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Little addition today,
Added the davit ropes, using knots to represent the tensioners between the davits, the connections to the hull look like hooks and eyes and I have drilled holes through the hull to then tie them in position by knotting the thread, currently the thread is being just held in by glue at the moment, tying the knots will be herculean task as they are bound to go loose, might use a bit of rod to wedge them in.
Just as an aside note, the davits are lifted and lowered from the mizzen mast, but as its removable that wont be possible to represent, though I could attach threads to the rat lines eyes.
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There are so many ways to do shrouds and ratlines. its almost a hobby in it's own right!
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Only did a very little this weekend, though tying the threads took forever, the anchors were a lot easier.
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Oh and forgot, MAY the 4th be with you %) :-))
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And the fitting of the anchors.
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Looking great for such a tricky build - I cant wait to see it take its first sail!
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Aye.
And May the fourth be with you as well :-))
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Been watching a lot of LEGO starwars since Monday and a couple of films and series, so back to the boat.
Charged up the transmitter, though even though its not been used in a while it still shows a full charge.
Charged up the receiver battery, again not been used much but still seems to have held a full charge.
These are to just test the servos. Well initially a bit of noise from the rudder (had only that connected at first) then nothing, after teasing the servo through a couple of degrees whilst disconnected, reconnected it and it started to work so all good in that department.
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Next the sail servo, so attached to the threads from the mast a couple of clamps and then started the test on the sail servo, the clamps provided tension and at full stick up and down the clamps moved a fair distance up and down the hull sides, so ran the threads to the lower yard on the foremast and did the same, except I didn't connect the threads to the yard just moved the stick slowly up or down, no way that the stick is going to be used, so used the trim lever and full up and full down and it seemed to be enough.
So attached the threads to the yard and the excess on one side was tied to the main mast bottom yard and a thread attached to the other side was run back to the foremast yard, tentatively I adjust the trim control up and down and the rotation seemed to be just right so took a couple of photos, will need to test it further before tying loops to the yards to attach the control lines to, and also need to connect the middle yards together to see if they rotate with the main yards.
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Pictures 1 & 2
Started to link the yards together, the first attempt was not as good as it should have been, after the batteries were attached and the transmitter and the rx switched on, it appears the control wires were off and rotated uneven, though in principle they do work.
It looks like the Overlander doesn't hold its charge that well (it is old so to be expected).
So attempt number two is picture 3, these are the connecting lines between the yards, to retain the control lines lengths, i.e. not cutting them down I have added a sacrificial length of thread this will connect to the loops added to the yards so if they perish over time then they can be replaced, this is the thought, tie a looped thread with a simple knot, tie the ends of this thread to the yard, then if the control line needs to be detached, then either the loop can be removed without effecting the yard or the control line or the sacrificial line as either can be cut and disposed of and replaced. without my CAD being available I cannot draw the concept, but all I have to do is cut threads that connect the control line to the yard.
The sacrificial line is created by creating a loop along the length of the control line, then the sacrificial line has a loop at the end where the end is threaded through the control line and back through the loop at the end of itself, when tightened the knot on the sacrificial line is slightly away from the control line loop, so by cutting between the control line loop and the knot, it frees the sacrificial line to be replaced, I will try to hand draw this tomorrow when the control lines are connected.
It appears the battery died not long after connecting it and then the servos wouldn't operate so I am waiting on that to charge before resetting the control lines, as I may have said earlier the trim tab is all that is needed to rotate from full port to full starboard.
Currently the yards are held in place with ties back to either the davits at the stern or the bowsprit, will have to disconnect the top yards before connecting the control lines and I just remembered how I was originally going to connect them - like tent guide rope stays.
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Well the set up is not by any long way 'pretty', but it works, the only mod needed was to tie the foremast main yard down to the deck bitt, as the tension kept pulling the yard up against the mast so seemed to lock in position, its a thread that does not seem out of place, though it is a brown thread.
As promised the sketches, forgot how hard it is to hand draw threads knotted, used a braided pair of headphone cord to do it.
The control lines are connected and are now connected to both the main and upper yards, all rotates as it should, well pleased.
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not sure this will work
https://youtu.be/VHxvOSl8B1M (https://youtu.be/VHxvOSl8B1M)
Just checked it, it works
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This shows the sails and rudder working, as a question regarding batteries, what size of 4.8v or 6v battery is sufficient to run a micro servo and a standard servo through a hitec receiver for an appreciable length of time (complete dufuss over the electrics).
Also had to create a new youtube account as forgot the sign in details for the original and when you look how long since I last posted you can see why.
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Tried the first test tank attempt, the results were disappointing, the battery was the overlander and did not sit straight in the hull, and when the initial test ballast was fitted it seemed too little, each washer is 52g so the weight is 3 x 52 which is 159g including the wire, so with 4 x 52 its actually only 209g so the new washer is a little light.
Well created a battery tray to be fitted to prevent the battery being loose in the hold and the test ballast, just have to fit it.
Then a further test to see if she sits as need be.
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Well eventually fitted the battery tray and the second photo is off all the stuff just placed in for the balance test.
Though thinking about it it would have been better fitting this a lot earlier in the build.
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Now for the interesting bit :-))
The balance test, the test weight at 210g is hooked onto each of the three holes in the sailboard bracket.
Each photo shows the weight moving from the rear to the front - I see a comparison to the three bears coming on, but it appears the centre hole with the weight attached is the best option, so next will be the building of the sailboard, the decision is whether to permanently fit it or have it detachable and how, surprised at the waterline being a lot better than sovereigns - though in all fairness she has brass masts.
Its difficult to see where the weight is as I have to keep filling the sink to allow her to float so she moves around.
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So tried a little experiment, at 200g + she was very stable when sat in the sink - so
Attached the 150g + directly clamped to the bracket and she was only listing to port by a small amount, especially when 50g + to the port side and 100g + to the starboard side of the bracket, did try just the 100g + to the starboard side only, she started to roll to that side.
To explain the bracket is slightly biased to the port side, so anything on the starboard is then partly directly under the centre, it seems that 150g + is a decent weight directly under the keel, I do have enough lead to make a skeg up to 300g/350g but no way as yet of making a mold to melt the lead into (have a propane torch to melt the lead and some brass to cast into it for the bracket).
Still need to cut some of the bracket off under the keel and fine tune the position of the skeg.
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Seeing this in your sink really brings home just how small this ship is and just how much effort you have made to get this to work - just amazing!
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Looking awesome! Just a thought (and you have already done so I expect) have you allowed for potential tilt due to wind blowing into the sails? Is the ballast enough?? I doubt you would sail her in a strong wind but just in case it gets gusty on the pond {:-{
Again, the video shows the amount of effort you have gone to make her a diorama as well as a working model. No mean feat with a small scale hull.
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She self rights quite well with anything from 150g to 200g, I think Sovereign had 250g but at about 90mm under the keel, this is directly under the keel, its all R&D so the real test will be the getting her wet in a pond, she is also a lot more detailed than her older sister.
Need to revise her sisters keel weight before they both go for a swim.
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S painted the copper bottom, though I dont think the keel was plated, on the kit there is no markings as if it was so left that black, the matt paint seems to have come out gloss, so will have to go over it again.
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Today I am going to try and make the skeg,
First the skeg body, using a 22mm dia copper pipe coupling.
Next the slot cut along its length for the bracket to be fitted - note for Sovereign I originally envisaged this coupling hence the hole.
Next the bracket.
The idea is to drill a couple of holes in the bracket, the markings are where the holes are when the plate is butt up against the keel, any hole within these areas will hold the skeg to the keel.
Once cut out the slot will mate with the copper fitting, then I plan to squash the copper fitting slightly to allow the weight to be further down, i.e. lower profile the copper fitting weighs 18g so need a further 132g to complete, I have weights up to that, just not sure if it will work.
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so the skegs made, just have to see if it will connect, may have to open the holes a little.
These are the fasteners with an AA battery for comparison, will need to epoxy them so they dont fall off.
The bracket with and without the masking tape, the holes are so the lead will bite and hold it in position.
The skeg assembled.
The slots extended.
And it reassembled.
And it completed, the weight is 154g, just need to create an end cap rather than a blunt end, see if it will fit to the keel and paint it.
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Fitted the skeg - has a look of the enterprise, before water test I need to clear coat the hull, its a metallic copper colour Humbrol MET 171, so even after two days its already looking like its oxidizing, some green tinge appearing, sovereign although clear coated also shows the oxidation but she is several years older.
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The skeg is a good idea! Re the keel, I am confident it was also coppered because if that gets weakened by the worm, then the back breaks and the ship is in peril {:-{
Super progress either way.
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Painted the keel MET 171 as well now, there are some very faint lines on the keel at the bow but not along the keel, the hull is 'riveted' but the keel shows no individual plates or riveting, also where there are plates these are painted MET 171, but wood is Matt black, most modelers do a clean line, I have gone for the only the plates are painted.
Others may disagree that the worm could do that much damage, from what I remember, copper plates were added to keep barnacles etc of the hull which in turn meant that ships were devoid of drag from the creatures, what the hull was waterproofed with was discussed last year as being more effective than the copper i.e. it being toxic.
Just a couple of things to do now and she is finished, attach threads to the bottom fore and main mast sails and any other missing rigging, Matt varnish the hull about 3 times, put the skeg on and test her stability, add a bulb to the skeg front and back with additional weight to trim, this is either on the skeg or in the rear area and paint the skeg.
To do a proper test I will need to use the test tank rather than the sink (even though that is an easier option to fill and empty) now where did I put it.
Also forgot - need to build the double carrier, this will transport both vessels, though will try to rebuild a skeg for sovereign it has the majority in a skeg but on the end of a screw thread.
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Well used the sink as a test tank again and she is still level with just the skeg (see below).
As for balance, need to always make sure the receiver is on the starboard side and even then maybe a little bit of counterweight to be sure.
For the carrier I have to source some screws suitable (and find the parts).
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Painted the skeg and then remembered I should have tweaked it first - doh.
I did notice in the last photo's that the skeg is hardly visible from the surface.
Also, the view is from the rear of it, still need to create a bubble to the front and then paint it and varnish it
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Good for you! So nearly there and ready for some sailing sessions when things get a bit freer :}
I am glad you have a bit of spare buoyancy there for if she tilts due to a gust that the skeg cannot cope with.
I am pleased you have stuck with this challenging project and seen it right through.
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Thanks, I wont be trying to do a frigate as I think the freeboard issue would be too much, plus finding one at the same scale that's british, though in retrospect some were not as they were captured and renamed - maybe in the future.
Swimbo says I need to finish the other vessels first and sort out the loft so I can store them properly.
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So, the next little project for Victory is its transport stand, well for both vessels actually, so utilizing scrap wood from bed slats, I created the following frame, the foam will pad the beds out to protect the hulls, the frame will be attached to a couple of other 'slats' that will raise the bed off the floor to allow the skeg and rudders to sit clear of the floor, and of course a handle to carry it all, will have to use a lot of wood filler and paint it to hide the errors, Should have more mojo when working with wood to ensure a better quality finish.
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So brought the other vessel from the loft for 'upgrading', i.e. some more troops to be fitted and some more thread added to make her look more like a ship of the line, she also needs the other two anchors fitting and the stern lanterns replacing, I might even fit the hammock parts to the mizzen deck though she weighs too much now.
One of the thoughts is to try and reduce the skeg under the hull to a more acceptable depth, but having brass masts that may be more difficult than it sounds.
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Completed building the stand, just need to clean it up now and fit the foam.
I found these two boats, if memory serves me right they are off the Wasa, the small one is about the scale of a 34ft, painted in the light blue it will need to sit atop the victory's other boats, the large one I could put on Sovereign but will be massively out of scale.
I also have two booms to add to both vessels though I am unsure if I have any rod the right diameter.
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I am sure the foam will hide the worst carpentry sins. The other areas look good.
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Wood filler will be extensively used {-)
To be honest the frame is quite big and I am looking at it and wondering whether to reduce it by replacing two pieces and cutting down two others, then it wont be too wide and the distance between the bowsprits and the handle will be shortened, without the main masts colliding.
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As long as you can still get the fleet in and out of the frame then go for it.
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Well the fleet was removed, and apart from other work the carrier is now smaller.
The first Picture is of one side of the carrier - before the two foot bars were shortened.
The second is of the other side and the feet have been shortened.
The Third picture is the new gap between the rails.
When I started the redesign I knew I had to replace the ends of the rails, to shorten the rails so that they would be square, and that the handle would also need shortening, the new ends was to rectify the errors in the first two, I spent ages measuring and remeasuring and checking that they were right.
Boy that was hard - and I still got them wrong - should have sanded the insides to make sure that side was the inside, it would have removed the old marking from the first attempt to mark out, still dont know if it right, as the heights were still out for the rails, doh
So still have to get some wood filler and primer to finish it and then I can fit the foam.
Need a rest, taped 'hell boats' so will watch that.
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Oh now that looks a tighter and neater stand :-)) All that effort paid off.
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And with a coat of primer and exterior gloss, tomorrow check coverage and apply where necessary, it doesn't need to be perfect as it is a carrier and not a display stand.
I could cut some timber and box in the underside as a tray for bits, but thats later if I get round to it.
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The final touches to the carrier, so not to damage my desk or another surface, I attached 4 self adhesive pads that came with an Ikea piece of wall / floor furniture, bit like a bookshelf or wall shelf in a 'BOX KITE' shape, to make sure they wouldn't come off I tried stapling them as well (need to paint the staples as well.
Then fitted the ship foam cushions, glued to the slats and then using the classic drawing pins to secure, I painted the drawing pins to prevent them rusting over and to obscure them.
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Good Lord! After al that hard work and experimentation and figure making you have finally finished your lovely shippes and their carrier!
I am very pleased for you :-)) :-)) :-))
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Thanks, there is still a couple of bits to add to victory, but yes she is virtually finished, tried to see if I could replicate the skeg on victory on Sovereign, but I need to fabricate a new connection to the hull to be able to add the test weights.
Whats holding things up? - the good weather to sit out in and sorting through the many boxes in the loft to allow me back onto the workbench :D
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Just think of the treasure you might find in those boxes. I assume that some are hobby related, and not all thirty year old toys and clothes!
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Correct, several treasures, including a very heavy metal box that was built as part of my apprenticeship, need to cut the lock off and hopefully will find amongst other things a continuation circuit tester also built during my apprenticeship and a Greek translation book I have been looking for, for over 3 years.
I know I have a box with a third 1/24th scale trailer, I built 4 x 1/24th scale trucks in the past, a Peterbuilt now gone the infamous 'RUBBER DUCK' Mack from the film Convoy - also now gone, and the other two are Ertl's, a International Transtar 4300 and an International Transtar Eagle, the 4300 is a conventional designed truck and in need of some serious repairing, the Eagle is a cab over and I have just repaired the front axle and put it in a better box to protect it, in another box is some police cars where various wheels have broken off, only two are in a decent condition, and a box of Airfix / Matchbox Bi planes, bombers and fast jets.
I do have to build a frame to stack the choppers and boats in the same box, but that's another project.
Anyway here is the latest for Victory - the small boat is repainted, also the big boat for Sovereign and its anchors, on the big boat I painted the inside white and then the whole of the outside, then I repainted the top seats and edge in the same brown as the other boats, only to find the original colour of the plastic is the same as that painted back on, Doh, just some oars to make.
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So - I decided to do a bit more to finish off Victory.
First I tied down the small boat.
I then fitted the ropes to hold the bottom sails to the main deck.
I also found the international transtar 4300 is in a very bad way. With it was two other items a trailer and my childhood build of an LCMIII, again in bad repair, but sadly not repairable so may go to the spares box - well the crew for definite.
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So those that are the sail boys will know what these are - the main sail bottom booms.
First, scrapped paint off the main port and starboard channels.
Then a small amount from the front of the mizzen channels.
I ground a flat about 4 mm long off a piece of what I thought was rod, it was tube, and then cut it off at 5 mm long, did this twice, then cut 2 lengths of 95 mm of the tube.
Between the first and second ratlines I epoxy fitted the 5 mm piece under the port and starboard channels so it poked out 1 mm, then epoxied the tubes from the main channel to the mizzen channel spanning the gap (except it failed to on the port side).
When painted will need to rig to wherever, It is another little detail that is not on the kit, I could have used some yards not used on Sovereign, but they were to short if cut in half and big in diameter at the largest end oh and hexagonal.
Apart from the stairs to the mizzen deck and the rear lamps, she should then be finished, but the lamps are a pain as they are easily knocked off, even with the metal davits on the rear, so some soldering / epoxying to be done to make them fit, will do sovereigns as well while I am at it.
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I have enjoyed following this project, and even though I popped off for a while, when I came back you were still persevering :-))
The trouble is being able to say 'Stop. I have done enough'.
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Only when she turns turtle {-) {-)
Got the test tank down trails tomorrow
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Well painted the sail booms and you would hardly know they are there :((
For the rear lanterns, I have this piece of copper that will need shaping and cutting, 6 horizontal brackets and 6 vertical brackets, 1 each soldered together and fitted to the stern, then I can pop the lanterns on, I have already drilled the necessary hole in the undersides ready to be epoxied on.
Funnily enough, its the first time I have used the Dremel drill stand properly rather than as a holder for grinding something against the wheel when the Dremel is in the stand.
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Well here is the lanterns fitted to the Sovereign.
The ones for Victory.
And them fitted.
What a pain, and not even sure there is sufficient epoxy to hold them on, Sovereigns being the first to be fitted look the best and Victory's was a pain, the hole to slide the copper wire into is so small even with a torch behind to light the holes doesn't help.
Ideally the holes are drilled and an excessive amount is passed through, then cut flush, but I don't have cutters small enough to fit in the back without damaging everything.
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So once painted, the threads for the rear davits and the threads for the sail booms are fitted she is finished, oh and a test tank check.
Then I can start on Sovereigns upgrade, some more troops, threads to the same places as Victory or thereabouts and she will be finished as well cosmetically, just checks to reduce the skeg to the underside or a better one (this will be the 4th skeg for Sovereign).
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So here is a quandary!!, these studding sail booms - two of which for the main mast are now fitted and I know where they are rigged from and to, there aren't any on the mizzen, but there are on the foremast, now I know that on the main mast they are connected between the first and second ratlines on the outside of the channels via a hinged block and a support at the end of the channels for when stored.
The Foremast ones are shown in the book but they are shown with the end against the hull forward of the foremast channels, here is the problem, I am assuming they are stored on deck or between the blocks of the ratlines and hull on the foremast channel, they don't pivot from a hinge because the pivot point is against the hull and the channels protrudes further out from the hull (apart from the fact the book shows the studding sail booms above the level of the channels), so for a boom to run along the foremast channels outside, its end at the hull would have to swing out, the book does not show supports on the channels for the boom to sit in like it does on the main mast.
So say its loose, then swinging the boom forward towards the bow and slide the end of the boom over the top of the channel and lay it down on the channel, then lashed to secure, it seems quite a laborious way to do this, surprised the didn't do the same as the main masts and you also have to contend with the anchors getting in the way, they are also quite long the main at 61 foot and the foremast one at 54 foot.
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Well these last construction photo's (the test tank and a water ones will be the last).
They show the port and starboard threads to the studding sail booms, on reflection the block and tacks to hold it for and aft would be removable in practice, as the current 1:1 at Portsmouth, only shows a bare boom, no blocks etc (internet pictures), also for what its worth I will leave the foremast studding boom off since as stated earlier there is no indication that it was external to the channels and would be hidden by the ratlines, if I had built this with the full set of sails and yards, (difficult to transport as the sails sit way out to the sides) then it would have been worth doing them.
So - 5 years it's taken to do this on and off, March 13 2015 when I opened the can of worms, in those first few replies I stated I would comment on the build quality of the kit, though crisper than it's predecessor, its still has the same basic faults regarding the fit at the rear, flash was not as bad, but its not an easy model to make - well, saying that I didn't make it easy on my self, time will tell if the control function of it works, though it does look promising.
As a Kit I give it a 7 out of 10 for quality (tamiyas are better), in a more experienced hands maybe it could score higher.
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Well, did a bouyancy test in the test tank - the pictures show where she sits in the water, quite a list to Port, so a tweak of the skeg and she was upright - yaaay, then whilst doing this realized that the battery was not in - Doh, start afresh when Sovereigns skeg is redone and tried out.
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Well it's been 730 days since I put the last picture up and she has not been sailed yet due to work commitments, but I had forgotten to add this link to the youtube video which shows her and the sails operating as planned - yeah - something went right, sailing is complicated as the weather needs to be reasonably decent and a good breeze as she is not powered under the water like sovereign is, also where to sail, the clubs around here are either quite a distance for the decent 'ponds' the others are difficult to mount a recovery from if it gets into difficulty or to wait around at if i have to wait until she gets to the side.
The video is on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHxvOSl8B1M