Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Lifeboats => Topic started by: Neil on May 10, 2015, 06:20:34 pm

Title: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 10, 2015, 06:20:34 pm
Many many years ago ( I think I was about 10 years old), my grandfather gave me a set of true blue prints for an old lifeboat that he, as a master pattern maker, had worked on, as a very young apprentice only for me to store them away for many more years until my  skills had been honed to close what they are now.
It was about 25 years ago that I took a look at them and realised what they were.......blue prints of the Duke of Northumberland, the first Hydraulic powered steam lifeboat built in 1886.
this to all intents and purposes was Water Jet Drive, long before the modern jet drive systems of such boats as the Dutch Valentijn and the RNLI Shannon class boats use.

It incorporated a twin cylinder horizontal compound steam engine running a centrifugal  pump which sucked in water through a scoop in the keel of the hull, to be blown out of forward and reverse facing outlets on the sides of the hull.

I made a  plug and mould of the boat at 1:12 scale  including a hull, which ( having been made of steel/iron? was plated, and these plate lines were taken from the original blue prints, and were visible on the mouldings.

Sadly two "happenings" were to occur. The original moulds and mouldings which had been in storage at a "friends" house were thrown away as the friend thought I didn't want it because it had been months if not a year or more since I had touched it because of other commitments ( i.e. the arrival of my first daughter), and whilst n a holiday from the school I taught at, the plans "went missing", never to be seen again.

And that was the end of the story until a fortnight ago, when I saw a plug for sale on ebay of her sister boat, the 56' Hydraulic lifeboat QUEEN.

I notified Baloo on here and told him about it as he has a smaller scale model of the boat.

He told me he was watching it and was going to bid on her.

I told him that I wouldn't interfere, but if he did buy it, and fancied me making moulds and mouldings I would, and so we came to an arrangement........and the boat plug ended up in my back lounge, lol.

Who ever made this plug, and it's not so old being made from bread and butter MDF has made the most beautiful job on it that I have ever seen. There is slight damage to the hull which will be a doddle to repair and she has been marked fastidiously with shell plate and  station/support beam lines, making it a real easy process once the lengths of plates has been determined and a little filling and sanding to plate.

And so  this will be my next project after the ferry.........complete with hydraulic drive, which I have also been thinking about, and in the next post will be revealing how I wish to go about that......but for now some photos of the hull showing all the markings for plating and a view of her port quarter of those beautiful and exquisite lines of her.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 10, 2015, 06:52:55 pm
just typed in a lengthy post and the  thing was rejected because it was too large when I put the photo on..............so a quick question from those in the know about 3D printing.....

would this pump casing be feasible to make from a printer say using a 3mm thick wall, and would it be strong enough to take pressures akin to a water jet washer
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Charlie on May 11, 2015, 10:16:40 am
Welcome back matey! I also saw this plug on ebay and wondered at the time which boat it could be. How did you know it was the Queen?
Charlie
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: morley bill 1 on May 11, 2015, 10:29:20 am
Neil do you have the drawings if not I have a copy of both the Duke & Queen from original blue prints regards Bill..
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: vnkiwi on May 11, 2015, 10:42:48 am
Neil,
as to your question re 3D printing.
Yes that could be done, even on a small "home" style 3D printer.
At 3mm thick and in ABS, would be more than enough to take the pressure.
I'd do the acetone soak though, it makes the part so much stronger.
If you wanted someone like SHAPEWAYS to do it for you, then you could use reinforced nylon or similar if you wanted.
So many materials out there to choose from.
All the bits could be done that way
cheers
 :-))
ps - welcome back
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2015, 03:51:01 pm
Welcome back matey! I also saw this plug on ebay and wondered at the time which boat it could be. How did you know it was the Queen?
Charlie

Recognised the water scoop in the keel of the hull Charlie......just like the one I had built of the duke some 20 odd years ago.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2015, 03:53:24 pm
Neil do you have the drawings if not I have a copy of both the Duke & Queen from original blue prints regards Bill..

yes please Bill.........would love them, especially when I miss those precious ones I once had. cheers.
I shall reimburse any expenses. neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2015, 03:56:07 pm
Neil,
as to your question re 3D printing.
Yes that could be done, even on a small "home" style 3D printer.
At 3mm thick and in ABS, would be more than enough to take the pressure.
I'd do the acetone soak though, it makes the part so much stronger.
If you wanted someone like SHAPEWAYS to do it for you, then you could use reinforced nylon or similar if you wanted.
So many materials out there to choose from.
All the bits could be done that way
cheers
 :-))
ps - welcome back

cheers matey........I know nothing about this black art at the mo, but once I have got the moulds made at the back end of the year I will be able to fabricate a wooden pattern of the exact size I want for the boat, and take it from there.........but can do nothing till I get a hull moulded.

cheers, neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on May 11, 2015, 05:11:21 pm
Drawings and a technical article about this boat appeared in "The Engineer"  in 1890,  you can download a PDF file copy from the link below

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=06221903006981358267 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=06221903006981358267)
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on May 11, 2015, 07:04:15 pm
Bill,are you going to "Mobile marine Show" on saturday  16th may ( this saturday)

Baloo   martin
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2015, 08:58:51 pm
great to speak with you this evening Bill,.................a real pleasure.

and thanks for the offer of the plans...........will look forward to looking at them and getting the build in motion..........all systems go for the autumn winter build.

thanks very much.

now guys, can I as my next question........where is  the late Les Jone's beautiful model of Duke of Northumberland.............would love to look at the hydraulic system the fitted into her hull to give me ideas of how to go forward...........if anyone knows could they please let me know.

cheers, neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on May 11, 2015, 09:06:08 pm
It was recently at Holyhead Maritime Museum, which was their original lifeboat station and is probably still there.

  Holyhead Maritime Museum
 Newry Beach
 Beach Road        Holyhead        Anglesey        LL65 1YD        Wales - UK          (http://www.holyheadmaritimemuseum.co.uk/media/contacts/images/emailButton.png)        GerryThomas48@gmail.com      
  (http://www.holyheadmaritimemuseum.co.uk/media/contacts/images/con_tel.png)        01407 769745

Holyhead lifeboat station will definitely know where it is right now.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2015, 09:22:51 pm
thanks for the info......great news............will contact them. cheers.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Duncan on May 12, 2015, 09:14:46 pm
Drawings and a technical article about this boat appeared in "The Engineer"  in 1890,  you can download a PDF file copy from the link below

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=06221903006981358267 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=06221903006981358267)

PDF scans of the periodical  The Engineer from 1856 to 1960 are available at http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Main_Page (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Main_Page)
There is other engineering information on the site and they have started scanning the periodical Engineering from 1866 as well.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on May 13, 2015, 08:15:15 am
thanks for the link.........I have those on A4 sheets that I was given a short while ago, as I lost them when my plans were "taken".

but have now got plans coming from Morley Bill, who traced them some years ago..............my saviour. cheers. neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on July 02, 2017, 03:28:11 pm

Just been chatting to Neil  via the old tellingbone and he has told me that now that his model for his daughter has been completed, his model for the steam lifeboat is now on the bench and ready to be built.


if any one wishes to view the build it can be seen on the two forums below, complete with his step by step fabrication of the mould and moulding process to manufacture moulds for the lifeboat and her two sisters.


http://www.thercmodelboatforum.com/t1539-steam-hydraulic-lifeboat#13997


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2915440-Hydraulic-steam-lifeboat#post37832463


hope you enjoy the build. I am looking forward to seeing one of his lifeboat creations come to fruition.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on July 02, 2017, 09:39:48 pm
That's great news Jim - I'll pop across and follow in the background - thank you for the heads up :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on July 03, 2017, 09:15:26 am
I am so looking forward to the build on this,not your normal lifeboat build, no disrespect to you lifeboat modellers out there.


Baloo
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 03, 2017, 11:58:18 pm

http://www.thercmodelboatforum.com/t1539-steam-hydraulic-lifeboat#13997 (http://www.thercmodelboatforum.com/t1539-steam-hydraulic-lifeboat#13997)


slow progress, if anyone interested.
Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Stavros on September 04, 2017, 12:45:26 pm
Get the  build up on here m8


Dave
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 16, 2017, 08:52:49 pm
took the trip down to Southport today for my GRP supplies...about 45 miles...........nearly had apoplexy when I pulled up outside Glasplies only to find a new company called TRICEL........and thought i'd had a wasted 3 hour return journey.............

 not to be put off I entered the inner sanctum and found that it was the good old Glasplies that I had known fo years, but with a new owner and name....

 so anyone wanting to buy from them over the counter or by order/delivery they still go under both names for a while.

 anyway, I bought my stuff.........

 20klo's of resin, 2.5 klo's white gell coat, blue release agent, release wax, catylist and chopped strand and surface tissue............got my silicon gloves, got my measure jugs.................am ready for blast off, once I have waxed up the plugs and put the flange on the hull plug............just need some disposable brushes from the pound shop, as cheaper than acetone for cleaning them...and more environmentally and lung friendly
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on September 16, 2017, 09:02:27 pm
Fantastic to see you back on here Neil - been following on the other forum, as a guest - love to follow your efforts, in particular your GRP exploits, warts and all. :-)

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 16, 2017, 09:13:25 pm

thanks Ray..........I succumbed to requests to post my build on here again.....so best behave myself..............and there'll be plenty of warts I can assure you, lol.



Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 16, 2017, 09:16:33 pm
I'VE already found one.............just bought the wrong size silicon gloves I use when laying up.........but I reckon I can get my arthritic fingers into medium rather than my usual large...........if not, it's back to the pink marigolds %% :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 17, 2017, 12:51:59 am
Ahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh   :o

Welcome back my friend.....whilst ye mate Jim was keeping us up to date on a few things, he didn't really have much knowledge on OZ  %)

We look forward your new detailed build here on MBM

...and so to welcome you back.....I'll drink a toast to you with OETTINGER German Pils in 1/2 litre cans  {-)

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: irishcarguy on September 17, 2017, 06:46:00 am
It is unbelievable to have you back my friend, Jim did a great job for you passing things on. Welcome back in spades, now behave like a good boy ( I am holding my breath LOL) It is obvious that you were sorely missed especially your building skills & all the advice. Mick B.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on September 17, 2017, 09:56:54 am

Welcome back Neil.    :-))

ken
 
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 17, 2017, 12:25:33 pm


Thank you all for your kind thoughts and good wishes.............think I have banished the gremlins and darkness from my soul and hope to concentrate on building and not arguing, lol


Especial thanks to you guys that have posted and have both kept me in touch, been good friends in my dark hours and also encouraged me to carry on building although slowly.


Depression is a horrible thing, especially when brought on by other illnesses, and fight each other for pole position, and is an ILNESS often either overlooked or shunned by those who don't suffer from it.


If you know someone with depression, please don't cross to the other side of the street to avoid them, whether man or woman.........give them a hug.......a hug is worth a thousand words.......and most of all, don't lose them as a friend, because you never know, they might be able to help you through the same one day.


Take care and keep modelling.


PS,........off out now to start waxing up the plugs ready for moulding.......oh and watch the F1 GP..........Promise I won't give the game away and tell who won it, lol.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Footski on September 17, 2017, 01:03:18 pm
Great to have you back Neil and using very wise words too....
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 17, 2017, 02:13:44 pm

good to see you on here at last mate.


does that mean I won't be having to keep putting things up for you.........OH JOY!!!


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 19, 2017, 05:06:33 pm
THE three smaller plugs have now had blocks glued to the undersides so that they can be clamped into the workmate whilst laying up the grp.

 Next was to attach the flange. This was screwed to the deck level flange. In such a position it left small gaps between the flange and the keel, stem and stern post, and it was this that had to be rectified, but not before fixing firmly in place.

 To do so, I first placed some blobs of white tack adhesive "mastic" onto the side that will eventually be laid up as the first side. This was to limit movement from the centre line of the keel of the flange.

 Then blobs of white tack were placed on the "back side of the flange to hold in place, before filling the gaps between the blobs of whitetack with moulding plastecine.

 Back to the object side of the flange and hull I filled in the tiny gaps between flange and hull using small rolls of plastecine using a small chisel to press home into the gaps so close them up and give a near perfect seal between hull and flange to mould up to.

 I waxed the hull and flange up and once that has"dried" I will apply the blue PVA release agent, which in my mind is imperative for an easy splitting of the mould from the plug when ready, and also from mould to moulding.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 19, 2017, 05:08:10 pm
The blue, PVA release agent has been painted on this evening.......the final barrier between the plug and the mould which will help enormously in separating the two halves.

 the gel coat, pigmented white is going on this evening and I shall lay up the first half of the mould tomorrow,

 the only thing that concerns me about moulding this relatively easy plug is the duct to the water intake. as it has been split down the centre by the flange, I'll have to be careful not to get an air bubbles into the corners of each half.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Rottweiler on September 19, 2017, 06:35:11 pm
A belated welcome back Neil,we have erm missed you!!
Now just remember to be a good boy,annd like me our lord and master will let you stay!
Going to follow your latest build with great interest,as usual.
See you at Blackpool matey,we are coming up on a coach this time and I think with a 13 hour coach journey I may have a numb bumb lol!
Mick F
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 19, 2017, 06:53:31 pm
and the gelcoat is now on the boat.

 I use the gauge and the scales for amount of catalyst to resin religiously after one day adding too much catalyst on a winters day, and the job was ruined when the mix smoked hot, but didn't quite catch fire.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 19, 2017, 06:56:24 pm

thanks mick..........look forward to seeing you.


did you get my message on facebook about Blackpool and the LBES. :-))


Neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 19, 2017, 07:04:13 pm
Always handy to have the correct equipment, ........those scales and measuring bottle are now well over 25 years old and still giving good service, lol.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 21, 2017, 02:31:07 pm

bit p'....d off with the results of the mould, and I shall explain why, and leave it at that but for a few photos.


I said at the start that this as with my other builds would be a "warts and all" build and if I make a mistake I would own up to it in order to help others not to make the same one.

 Well I made one big style.

 When I laid up the first half of the hull I cheapened myself by using some gelcoat that had been in a sealed tin for some time......in fact probably since I moulded the hull of the ferry nearly 4 years ago, on reflection......shelf life of such stuff once opened is a maximum 6 months under controlled conditions, and no way are the temperatures in my workshop controlled........but I hoped and prayed that there wouldn't be a reaction to using this on the first half.........

 Sadly my prayers weren't answered, and when I finally finished the mould this morning and then trimmed it up, I split it and removed it from the plug to find that the old gel coat had crinkled and  left an uneven surface.

 there was a choice, leave it and when waxing up to put extra wax into the crinkles so that when the moulding is taken off it the raised particles can be sanded off or leave the second half attached to the plug and lay up a ew half to that.

 However the plug was now in a state and would need cleaning and probably wet and drying again before waxing again, and so I decided that as only a few sets of mouldings are going to be taken off by myself for friends, then they can sand down their own hulls to the perfection they want.

 But the moral is.........DON'T CHEAPEN YOURSELF AND USE OLD AND SHODDY MATERIALS...........it causes more work and expense in the end.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on September 21, 2017, 09:23:18 pm
Hello Neil,

Thank you for the update, pointing out the use of old materials in particular, which has prompted me to go through my stock of "stuff" that I've had stored away for a couple of years. This will now be taken to a disposal point and replaced with fresh items.
I feel that, without this update, I would have blundered into the same trap as yourself.

Much appreciated.

Hope the remainder of your build goes well for you.

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 22, 2017, 05:28:34 pm
have now cleaned off the blue release agent and found that the pitting in the gelcoat isn't as bad as I thought............t's mostly under the waterline................only joking, it's not as deep as I thought and mainly restricted to the bow area...........

 with liberal coatings of wax on the mould, the raised bits on the moulding, although numerous, won't need as much sanding off as first thought, so spirits are lifted a little..........may be a beer can be lifted as well as the spirits.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 25, 2017, 08:29:13 pm


the two halves of the hull mould have been waxed copiously and hopefully much of the rippling "craters" have been filled to a good extent with the wax. the halves were then painted with the blue PVA release agent before bolting together.

there will be no trouble finding space in the hull for controls, pump, batteries etc as it is cavernous, as you can see from the lifeboat crew man placed into the hull......at the same scale 1;12.

once the hull was bolted together a biggish gap could be seen between the two halves on the top of the induction scoop. and so this was filled with plastecine.

once this was done the white gelcoat was applied inside the mould.

laying up will be done tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on September 25, 2017, 09:11:21 pm


once the hull was bolted together a biggish gap could be seen between the two halves on the top of the induction scoop. and so this was filled with plastecine.

Always impressed by the way that you manage to find a solution to a problem - that's another handy "fix" to add to my notebook. :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 26, 2017, 10:00:05 pm
and the first hull moulding has been laid up this morning, 3 layers o 300gram chopped strand matting, and then the bulwark level trimmed off to the top of the flange.

 the moment to worry about is when I split the mould tonight after it has hardened and started to cure......see whether the mistakes of the gash gelcoat on the first half comes back to haunt me and rips the mould apart........
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 26, 2017, 10:02:54 pm
yippppeeeeee........the copious amounts of wax pushed into the crinkles on the mould have worked as the new moulding today popped out like a baby's dummy with just wax residue left on the moulding, and no damage what so ever, which I feared most, to the mould.it will just need cleaning up and then more waxing and a release agent and off again........might get another hull out by Thursday with any luck.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Rottweiler on September 26, 2017, 10:07:51 pm
Had faith in you! But that is going to be a big boat!
I think Baloo needs something nearly as big as my Clyde lol
Mick F
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 26, 2017, 10:48:52 pm

this IS his, mick...........he bought the original plugs off ebay with the agreement that I would make him a set of mouldings from the plugs........so here's the hull.


the end boxes and cabin are to follow.............and I hopefully will be bringing a set to the LBES  stand at the Blackpool show.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 26, 2017, 11:01:35 pm
I'll leave the build questions to others  O0...but it appears the workshop television is on in many images  :o

So keeping on a nautical theme, who and what is this young Damsel with dark raven hair  :kiss: doing walking along the beach?

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 26, 2017, 11:47:17 pm

you'll have to ask neil that one Derek, but I have no idea.


perhaps he's catching up on his missed Australian soaps {-) {-) {-)


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 27, 2017, 03:25:44 am
But I thought I was asking the question to or of Neil :-) ....after all it is his thread...or do you just comment on spec?....as you certainly appear to know pretty well what the other are doing 

I know from conversations may years ago, he.....[Neil that is ] spent a few years in our glorious Capital City of Canberra teaching our youngsters.......but then as one who has never travelled the world  >>:-( you wouldn't understand or know the colour of a Yallaumbua bird would you  :-X
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 27, 2017, 10:03:55 am

what the heck is a Yallaumbua bird, Derek..........


I've heard of a gallah, but never one of those,


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 27, 2017, 01:30:27 pm
Why not ask Neil.....after all it was he who was the teacher & spent a few years in our glorious Capital City of Canberra  :-X
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on September 27, 2017, 01:48:23 pm
Bit belated but welcome back Neil,I am following the thread with every second I have, now  Rottweiler  you think your Clyde is big,I have been given,yes given something that needs a little tlc
baloo


Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Rottweiler on September 27, 2017, 03:30:56 pm
The mind boggles! Wow!
Mick F.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 27, 2017, 03:48:54 pm

just asked him,...........well an hour or so ago, Dereck and he's as much in the dark as I am..........I've tried googling it without joy.


maybe you have a picture of this mystic bird.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on September 27, 2017, 08:14:33 pm
The Yallaumbua bird always brings great pleasure.

If you have one in your hand, it saves on the washing up.

The best experience comes when you visit where it is born
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 27, 2017, 08:49:16 pm

the plot thickens...........now i'm totally confused {-) {-) {-)


mind you, has been said before..........it doesn't take much to do that. {:-{ :embarrassed:

Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 27, 2017, 10:38:37 pm
OK..... {-)  brilliant explanation kinmel....but don't tellém too much  >>:-(...keepém guessing a little longer......

This will allow Neil to get on with his glass steam boat  %).....and Jim...well...err... he can just get on & do what he does best  :-X

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 27, 2017, 11:10:30 pm

and Jim...well...err... he can just get on & do what he does best  :-X

Derek


And that's not a lot really.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 28, 2017, 10:46:57 am

washed clean and cleaned up.......on to the next hull.



the pva release agent comes off easily with a little warm water and a bath...................sometimes, the bath just isn't quite long enough.

she has got lovely classic lines , what a classic lifeboat is all about, and even as early as1896 the bow shape has resemblance of the new Shannon with her cleaver sharp edge...........I wonder if the navel architects ever look at past designs for their new creations.



Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 28, 2017, 10:58:43 am

by the way WTH are you lot bumbling on about.


the Yalumba bird [ note the spelling ] is otherwise known as a Cape Barren Goose and used as an emblem on the label on wines of the same name from Ozz...........either red or white .............and you can find it in good wine vintners or sometimes at Booths............Not that I shop there.................more an Aldi and Lidl red plonk man........so what's all the mystery.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Baldrick on September 28, 2017, 04:06:54 pm
It would seem that the forecastle weather deck on the Duke of Northumberland was quite a full rounded affair rather than squashed down.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 28, 2017, 04:17:42 pm

Is that one of the  6 steam lifeboats, Baldrick.


Where on earth is that lying, and returning to the natural elements. Fascinating, but in a sad sort of way.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Baldrick on September 28, 2017, 04:34:46 pm



 The Photograph was titled the Duke of Northumberland, saw it on Flickr  it did not give the location. Would appear to have been concreted in as a sea defence.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 28, 2017, 04:53:53 pm
how sad!!! <:( <:( <:(
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Liverbudgie2 on September 28, 2017, 05:19:42 pm
It's on the Mersey, around the Hale - Widnes area. The Duke of Northumberland was the New Brighton Lifeboat for many years.

The late Les Jones built a superb working model of her which was exhibited at the ME, Southport and Colwyn Bay amongst others.

The model can be viewed at the Holyhead Maritime Museum together with other models Les built.

LB
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 28, 2017, 05:44:22 pm

That's very interesting indeed Liverbudgie.


The background buildings, I thought were somewhere abroad.


Is it on the Widnes side or the Runcorn side.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: furball on September 28, 2017, 09:41:23 pm

Widnes side, just to east of St. Mary’s Church.

It’s was moored up on the edge of a concrete plant, and all the excess was just poured along the bank, covering her.


You can just see her on Google Earth, not so easily on Google Maps.




Lance
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 28, 2017, 10:04:29 pm


thank you lance.
I'll have a look.


Jim.


having a look but can't find it..........could you do a snapshot of it from google earth and put on here.......I have no idea how to do such a thing.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on September 28, 2017, 11:19:19 pm
On this screenshot the hull is within the red "circle".  Open Google Maps ands search for Widnes.   Use the Silver Jubilee Bridge on the left as your reference point to locate the area and then zoom in as far as you can.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 28, 2017, 11:25:40 pm

thanks kinmel.........I thought it was along that stretch from what lance said, but couldn't make anything out...........I'll have to get my magnifying glasses out and have a look.


thank you.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Baldrick on September 29, 2017, 04:11:59 pm
It is just in front of that demolition site.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 29, 2017, 05:24:31 pm

It would seem that the forecastle weather deck on the Duke of Northumberland was quite a full rounded affair rather than squashed down.


Hi Baldrick.....thanks for the photo, going down to Widnes in the next week or so to try and find the old girl and take a few shots of her.


From what I see, you are actually looking at the stern end of her and the (once) watertight end box, bot extra  protection against sinking if ever holed amidships. That might give the impression that it is more bulbous that the end box actually was, because there was a "tunnel" built on top of the end box, open at both ends to allow the steering ropes and pulleys to pass through for protection.


Mind you, I think all six steam lifeboats, 3 propeller driven and 3 hydraulic jet boats were all built by different builders. the three plans I have for covering the 3 hydraulic boats are all different in some respect.


anyway it's back to the  build, and the end boxes have been moulded in exactly the same manner as the hull, except that there was no need to do a split mould as no overhangs or other strange angles which would need a split mould to release the moulding.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Baldrick on September 29, 2017, 07:39:06 pm
[
Hi Neil.
 Going to take a hacksaw with you to bring back a souvenir ?

  And this might be handy.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast_and_sea/tide_tables/5/456#tide-details

 
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on September 29, 2017, 11:00:36 pm
Neil......I found the actual image from Baldrick [with the bulbus cowling] interesting.....however found the links to plans near non existant

I did however find an image, and although an artists image :o..... portrayed the general flatness of the hull end cowlings as per your build

I have seen steel plate buckle under load....[although without such uniformity]....so just wondering if time & tide & ground pressure could have contributed to the hull being subjected to a loading that created this raised bulbous appearance of the cowling?

The last remains of a rather substantial wooden rubbing strake? appear interesting...

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 29, 2017, 11:24:03 pm
It is really poignant to see the remains of such a ground breaking design.


Colin
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 30, 2017, 12:30:31 am

It is really poignant to see the remains of such a ground breaking design.


Colin


it is Colin, very sad too.


I wonder if those that filled it with concrete those years ago ever had any idea just how important to maritime lifesaving and other developments they were destroying. We'll never know.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 30, 2017, 11:49:34 am

[
Hi Neil.
 Going to take a hacksaw with you to bring back a souvenir ?

  And this might be handy.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast_and_sea/tide_tables/5/456#tide-details (http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast_and_sea/tide_tables/5/456#tide-details)




might just do that Baldrick.........but a small piercing saw with a few blades......cut a small bit off and mount it on a little plinth.as a keepsake.


as for the moulding..........well........Just finished the second set of end boxes for the second hull.......had a bit of a dilemma as my daughter rung me just before I was due to start laying up and asked if I could pick her up from a friends house where she stayed last night after a night on the razz........so left me little time.....

 so I added another 2 mills of catalyst to the mix to send it off a little quicker........once laid up  I then added a little accelerant.....a trick that my GRP tutor taught me when I was on a course building my 1st 16' Canadian style canoe in Canberra, Australia in 1976.......use a hot air gun once the mix has started to gell on the brush....used lightly, the extra heat won't damage the layup.

 So that is it..........two sets of mouldings predicted, two sets made, and now I can bolt up the mould to stop it from being damaged and  deformed and then I can put the moulds and plugs away and get on with the building of the lifeboat with a little space to spare in the workshop.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Baldrick on September 30, 2017, 12:50:11 pm
As a thought. With a steam powered lifeboat I can only presume that they had to keep the system fired up 24/7. At least with a damped down firebox and a small head of steam. The essence of sea rescue is to be quick of the mark , not have to wait an hour for a good head of steam.



Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on September 30, 2017, 01:11:53 pm

As a thought. With a steam powered lifeboat I can only presume that they had to keep the system fired up 24/7. At least with a damped down firebox and a small head of steam. The essence of sea rescue is to be quick of the mark , not have to wait an hour for a good head of steam.


that's correct Baldrick.......they were kept under steam constantly, but apparently they could be got ready from cold within 20 minutes, which was at that time of the late 19th century as correspondingly as quick as a shore launched pulling and sailing lifeboat against an onshore gale.....all were afloat boats, obviously and I believe from reading subsequent materials of their history they were good sea boats but the expense of keeping them fired up and expensive made them somewhat of an "experiment" rather than a good run of multiple boats like we saw into the turn of the 20th century and the coming age of motor lifeboats.


and to finally close the section on moulding.............tidying the rubbish and getting rid of the none needed stuff and the trimmings.


Martin Kinghoward, aka Baloo, is making his model, (from who's plugs were supplied to me at no cost to me, in return for a set of moulds for martin) as the QUEEN, which has one funnel, and so I have decided to build my model [because I have a love for the city] as the CITY of GLASGOW, which has two funnels.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Footski on September 30, 2017, 01:44:38 pm
Blimey Neil, if that workroom gets any fuller, there will be no room for you! A bit like mine actually. %%
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: tonyH on September 30, 2017, 06:30:40 pm
Dunno if these are of any use but they're contemporary from Grace's Guide of the Duke of Northumberland and the boiler/engine for same. Both 1890 illustrations.
I've only been checking them out for an A/S trawler built in 1918 using roughly the same system.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on September 30, 2017, 07:25:14 pm
There are a number of photos of the Duke of Nurthumberland hulk at Widnes here .....  http://picssr.com/tags/exlifeboat/page8
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Liverbudgie2 on September 30, 2017, 08:02:01 pm
Here is the late Les Jones example of the Duke of Northumberland, as the Holyhead LB, in action at Colwyn Bay in 2010.

LB
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: kinmel on September 30, 2017, 08:10:48 pm
Was that really 7 years ago? 

Time flies
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on September 30, 2017, 11:20:58 pm

WOW!!!...What a beautiful looking model.


how did he produce his power to the jets, LB. do you have any pictures of the propulsion unit.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 08:44:41 pm
now that the hull has cured into it's permanent state for modelling I need to put on the belting..made from timber before I do anything else, for reasons later. I am going to try making them form 2 pieces of but jointed obeche 15mm square in section.

 because it is quite a lump of timber  that has to bend I have first fixed the hull shape temporarily with pieces of timber, duct taped in place, and placed the obeche in a bath of hot water for a couple of hours to wet and make pliable.. then I shall take a piece at a time and offer it up to the hull an clamp in place. should it not bend to the bulwark shape, then I shall cut it again into 19 X 7mm strips and try laminating the belting in two parts.

 what I don't want to do is cut the timber cross wise to aid bending.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 08:46:15 pm
Just tried bending the 15 x 15mm obeche dry..........and not a hope in hell, so those timbers can be used for the deck framing, and I have cut some 15 x 7mm obeche, and even dry fit, this works well so that is now in soak in the bath.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 09:15:47 pm

the stern quarter pieces have been placed onto the hull, and then overlapping this and the bow section I have also lad a centre piece overlapping both fore and aft sections, to give the sectional thickness of the belting, and clamped them all down. I'll add the bow and stern second layer later, if I have enough clamps left.


the reason I chose 7mm thickness is that the belting is going to be screwed onto the hull from the inside  and the shortest screws I can find are 1/2 inch countersunk. if I have thinner wood for the first layer, I'm afraid that it might crack along the grain when the screws penetrate through it, leaving no purchase to the hull. if knocked at any time allowing it to spring off the hull at a later date. That would be disastrous.

 with the thickness of the first layer of belting and the thickness of the grp mould, the screws, hopefully won't penetrate the first layer and leaving it a weak point.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 10:20:04 pm

both layers of the belting are now clamped up and drying out, to take a reasonable shape.


once dry, the outer layer will be glued to the inner layer first to keep it stable and to the position akin to what it is now.


oh it feels good to have a few clamps.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on October 02, 2017, 10:42:40 pm
Neil, a question, if I may...is it ok to leave the releasing agent on the hull at present ?...or should it be washed off at the earliest opportunity ?

Just curious because the other hull appears to have had it's bath.

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 11:03:56 pm

I've left it on before this long, Ray.........longer in fact at times..........and the bath has been cluttered for a day or two with wood soakin..........only time it comes out is when the kids take it out to have a shower.........I haven't had a bath for 3 days......beginning to pong, lol.............but now it's done i'll take the remaining wood out, and take the plunge.................


the "blue" is a water soluable pva, and on larger surfaces, can  be sprayed on.


as part of my course when I was in ozz 40 years ago we visited a boat builder and watched the separation  of a set of moulds.......the boat hull had been left in mould for 4 days to cure, and to release the mould............couldn't use little wedges like I do........they connected  pipes to nozzles glassed into the moulds, and injected at pressure, warm water.........boy did those 3 section moulds[ one section was across the transom stern of the boat] pop.............took about two minutes for the warm water to circulate between moulding and mould, and then they injected compressed air through the same nozzles, and with a shower of water, the boat hull popped out as the moulds fell back into their respective cradles..........was a brilliant sight to see.......... O0 %% %% %%

so yes.the answer is it washes off with ease.





Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Capt Podge on October 02, 2017, 11:10:33 pm
Thank you for your answer Neil - and the information as to how the "big boys" did it all those years ago. Most interesting to read. Would love to have seen that "in the flesh" - great stuff. :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 02, 2017, 11:26:30 pm
i'd have loved to have seen the popping of one of our old GRP minesweepers.....that would have been a sight to see. %% %%
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on October 03, 2017, 08:27:50 am
The Question has been asked on numerous occasions,myself and other people have asked for photos of the inside of the Duke of Northumberland, but  to no avail,is there a reason for this,I thought it was in every bodies interest to see what other modellers have done to the inside of there models,for future reference.


Baloo
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 03, 2017, 10:37:43 am
Like me or like me not for what I have to say, because I don't say this  lightly!


I do not speak ill of the deceased but Baloo has a valid question as to why the information that model makers have sought for a number of years is not fortycoming.


I first met  Les Jones at the (probably) one of the last "lifeboat regattas" that Southport model boat club ran on Rotten Row.


I was showing and sailing the newly developed Liverpool class lifeboat that I had built for Metcalf Mouldings to produce and Les was showing his Duke of Northumberland off for the first time. As I had made a hull from original blue prints ( not copied plans) that my granddad had given me around 1960 (he worked on original patterns for the boat as an apprentice in the early 1880's with the company he was apprenticed to as a pattern maker) I wanted to build a model of the boat. I walked over to Les who had had the top off  the boat showing to someone the mechanics of the drive system. As I approached he put the top on the boat, precluding me from seeing the internals. I asked him if he could show me how it worked and he refused saying he might damage the boat if he keeps doing it. And so I left him in peace.
I then saw him a couple of years later at either Blackpool or Ellesmere, (can't remember) and again asked him if I could look at the internals but he refused again saying he had now "fixed the cabin on permanently", but I could see from the model that it was still loose as one end was slightly up as though he had had it off recently. Again I just left him to it.
The final time I had words with him, I had an Ann Letitia Russell, converted to Edmund and Mary Robinson the relief Gold Medal winner when stationed as relief boat at Molfre for sale. He rang me late one evening close to 22.00 asking about the model and whether I could supply him with one of the same at cheap rate as he wanted to build one for a cousin whose father had served on the boat during that gold medal rescue to a cargo vessel called the Hindlea. He introduced himself as I', Les Jones, have you heard of me?
I told him yes, a fine modeller, and that I would gladly help him obtain one from Metcalf Mouldings with a discount, but in return would he allow me to have a look at the interior of his Duke of Northumberland?
The phone was put down on me and that was the last time I ever heard of or saw Les Jones again.


In recent times I did contact Holyhead Museum as I had heard that he had donated the model to them, and asked if I came down from Fleetwood, would they allow me to photograph the interior of the model. They replied that there had been a proviso made by the donor that the boat would not be photographed for interior detail.


I don't know why he was so adamant  that one should not photo the mechanicals but sadly that info will be forever lost to modellers, which to me is against all that I believe to be decent.


We are all here with special gifts that I for one share, and find it sad when others with great talents won't share them with others.


Neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on October 03, 2017, 12:07:05 pm
Thank you for your reply Neil,
 it's a terrible shame that people want a favour from you and they cannot repay the favour, but we will find out one day.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 04, 2017, 10:40:02 pm
The starboard side belting has been removed now the glue adhering the two strips together has set. the belting has kept much of it's form and curve.

the hull has been sanded smooth and 2.5 mm holes drilled into the hull centrally along the flat face of the upper bulwarks to take the 1/2" x6 screws.

the hull was wiped with a damp cloth and the glue, called Gater Glue and totally waterproof, so it says lol [similar to gorilla glue] was applied to the timber. it was reclamped up to the hull and screwed up tight to the grp moulding using the screws from the inside.

hopefully I'll get the other side on to the hull tomorrow.........going to give it a good enough of time to set solidly.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 09:38:55 am
i'm cracking on with this at the moment as I just want to get a few basics done for a forthcoming show in Blackpool near home in 2 weeks time........just need to get the belting on, and the deck beams in plus the end boxes on.........

the first side has now been glued on and set. it has also been screwed in place from the inside of the hull.

on to the second side now, but before I do.......off down to the tool shop to get a decent cross head screw driver, as the one I have is knackered and keeps slipping out of the screw.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 10:09:26 am

you'll notice in the background of the last shot, the stern of the ferry, that took me close on 4 years to build..................it's now collecting dust.


I sailed it once at the summer open day at Southport model boat club open day. I thought that I had set the voith units up  properly..........sadly I made a complete ass of myself, as the model sailed like a dog chasing it's own tail......I couldn't get it to sail in anything like a straight line........never has a lion turned to a lamb so quickly, lol.......and since then, the weather has been so bad at Fleetwood that I just haven't been able to sail it to set the voiths up......even took it to New Brighton and the waves were coming over the wall of the lake...............looks like I'll have a lemon on my hands until better weather next summer......bahh, humbug.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on October 05, 2017, 10:18:48 am

Looking at the Voith videos on YouTube , it all looks so easy and totally controllable.  Obviously it is not.   :}

Cheers

ken
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 10:33:24 am

 hardest thing to setting the voiths up on a ship with open decks with little freeboard is getting decent weather to put it into a calm lake, ken.........


it's been absolutely awful up here since July 1st.........has rained at some point during the day/night EVERY SINGLE DAY and, though we are used to wind, even the palm trees all the way down Fleetwood prom have wind burn to their leaves.............been appalling..........and Scotland has been even worse.........our holiday was a wash out............global warming my bum.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 11:37:25 am
second side on, the glue is foaming, so at least working. I have 4 G cramps and as many spring clamps on the belting as will fit.......no space for any more so a good universal grip right the way along.........if you have them, use them...............no good leaving gaps of lesser pressure at places where the grip will be less...........and in the heated workshop hopefully I'll be able to start screwing it on for total bonding later tonight, and as each clamp taken off I'll put a screw in to hold the area tight.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 12:08:42 pm
and my plywood deck has just arrived from Norfolk, from Anglia Model Services.............ordered it Monday night at 10.15 pm    .....and just arrived Thursday, 12.05 pm free postage.........that's what I call great service.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 01:46:29 pm

Sadly the mould I made for the main cabin was a flop.......more gaps between gelcoat and matting than a Swiss gruyere cheese and so it went in the bin, and so I decided to make the cabin from 3.5mm ply, and here is the first part of the construction.....main uprights made first using my sliding bevel to get the angles of the ends correct, cutting on a band saw and then using epoxy to glue the 4 walls and then the Gator glue to fix the top down.


Weighted down with old batteries it has been left to set till later.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 06:43:37 pm

unfortunately one of the corners of the fabrication sprung out when the top was weighted down and so I decided to put in corner buttresses to strengthen the corners.


it was, after the glue had set was sanded down on the belt linisher, to  take off the excess timber. I also made a central gusset as a support to stop the long side walls from turning inwards with timber warping. this was glued in using 2 part epoxy.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 06:50:56 pm

Attention was then turned to the deck supports.


in my usual way, I used some decent sized side supports.........the left over 15 x 15 mm square obeche that I didn't use for the belting. this was cut on the band saw to aid bending around the hull. this was glued in with the Gator glue and clamped in place..


tomorrow i'll set to putting in the cross members to take the hull to the correct beam............not forgetting that I have to make patterns for the pump, so need some space between the beams to play around with chunks of wood.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: poll on October 05, 2017, 07:42:43 pm
Hi Neal.  How did you go about setting your voiths up?


 John.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 08:13:44 pm

hi john........


since that initial sail at Southport where I made an ass of myself, I haven't bothered at all with it......it'll wait till next spring and calmer weather.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: poll on October 05, 2017, 10:04:06 pm
 Hi Neil. I'm into voiths myself & I'm not telling you how to suck eģgs but this is how I set mine up, I start the set up with
  Using the bath. If it's a twin unit first cut the power to unit 2 then trim unit 1 until there is no movement, then go to unit 2 & do the same not forgetting to cut the power from unit 1 when 2 is set up
 Couple both together & try good luck. If you wish give me a bell.
  Mob  **********

it is not advisable to put your phone number onto an open Forum.  To contact this member, please use the personal email found by clicking his name.
#ken

  John.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 05, 2017, 10:51:17 pm

hi johnthanks for the advice.............much appreciated and it reinforces what I had thought.


I have the problem that one voith is in the bow and the other is in the stern 45" apart......the boat is 59" long.....I have no problems getting her to go sideways or diagonally, but she just won't go in a straight line, and the small pool at southport just wasn't wide or long enough for me to adjust with the digital controls on the tx with a decent long run........so hae been waiting to run her on the big lake at Fleetwood, but the weather has been appalling for 3 months without a break...........so will wait till next spring as the wayer level is dropping at the lake now ready for emptying to clean out later next month.....when I do get her in the water i'll disconnect each voith in turn as you advise and set each up to run straight, and then the other one..............just have to bide my time..


but again thanks, much appreciated.


neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 06, 2017, 04:33:08 pm
The deck cross beams randomly placed and a plank of plywood placed on top, with the new cabin and "funnels" placed roughly where they should be to give an idea of where the actual deck cross members need to go.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 06, 2017, 08:43:34 pm

I have now fixed the main cross beams to bear the deck and cabin, and supported them with 1.8mm ply, all fixed with two part epoxy.


next job, was to glue in guides for the two end boxes. I used this method some years ago when fixing the end boxes on both the pulling and sailing lifeboats seen in the masterclass section and also the Liverpool class lifeboat that went to Metcalf mouldings.


it is an easy way of locating the two boxes and fixed in place with goodly amounts of filler both interior and exterior to the moulding and then sanded down to a smooth even relief.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Shipmate60 on October 06, 2017, 09:08:42 pm
Neil,
On full size ships either the VS unit controls are coupled together,
OR
The bow unit is used for drive and the stern unit is used as an active rudder.


Bob
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 06, 2017, 09:35:45 pm
it's the same on the model, Bob...Dave M made me an electronic gizmo so that the bow vsu would kick in a second before the stern, and go ahead or astern on the right stick where the left fore aft stick was digitally set with the stick totally back, and therefore only revs in a forward direction on that stick for both motors...........the revs are totally controlled by that left stick.............


the only problem I have is keeping her running straight, all other functions work as they should............but as I said.............just haven't had a single decent sailing day to take to Fleetwood  since 1st july where I can set the port starboard movement in a long run across the lake, as she does have some speed on her, and setting at slow revs wouldn't I think make much difference...........both units have individual actions on all other directions other than for/aft motion.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 07, 2017, 05:33:11 pm
well back to the lifeboat and I have had via Baloo's foresight had an amazing bit of luck..........Martin aka Baloo saw this amazing little bit of kit on mayhem, and I have just spoken to the guy via phone, and am taking the boat over to him week after next to discuss using two pumps running off brushless motors [ one for forward propulsion and one for reverse, or one single pump with a manifold. the guy is an engineer and 3d prints the details and then casts them in his own foundry........so I'm hoping that he can come up with a specifically designed unit for the boat.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 07, 2017, 05:36:23 pm
but back to the actual building.......I have cut the guides down for the end boxes to glue on to, and cut the deck support beams running fore/aft, but haven't glued those in just yet.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 07, 2017, 05:44:18 pm

next was to fabricate the end walls and the main deck for the aft well deck...........this hurt my brain as I had to actually think about it, and contemplate how I was going to do it whilst retaining access to the aft end box and the hull below the well deck, whilst fixing the walls to the deck beams.
in the end I made some wooden brackets to fix to the deck beams.
the hole in the floor of the well deck was cut with the first power tool I ever bought for my hobby, back in 1979 from a school I used to teach at.


it has had good use over the years and "touch wood" will continue to do so all but on a very rare occasion these days...........but the best 15 quid I ever spent.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 08, 2017, 12:09:07 am
finally for today, I put onto the two end walls, the guids for the side walls to fit into, which will be seen to work later. they were made from 5mm ply, bevelled one edge to take the wall.

 then support lip for the removable floor was glued in to the underside of the structures access hole.

 finally the side floors were thickened by a second layer of 3,5mm ply, which is what the main floor is made from, so that the side walls have ample gluing surface to attach to..............all using waterproof aliphatic resin quick grab glue and plenty of clamps.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on October 08, 2017, 10:54:07 am

Hi Neil,

Very impressed with the clamps.    {-)

ken
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 08, 2017, 11:28:25 am


Hi Neil,

Very impressed with the clamps.    {-)

ken


the more the merrier mate :-)) ........i'm a compulsive collector of ALDI clamps lol. {-) {-) %% %% %%


them and old batteries to weigh decks down, {-) {-)
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 08, 2017, 02:20:40 pm

the floor has been completed with the cut out access to the hull now done.


next thing was to make the side walls and fit them. In order to facilitate the bend in them I made this easier by cutting the 1.6mm ply across the grain instead of lengthways, making bending no problem at all. these were glued with aliphatic quick grip resin and slipped into the upright guides fitted earlier........... and then nailed with small pins to the thickened base for extra grip.


only then did I glue in all of the  fore /aft deck beams in place, adding two extra ones in the aft section where the well deck will go. the reason for this is to eventually offer up the base of the well deck to the top of the aft beams, and then cut the beams to the round shape of the well deck sides so that the sides can be glued to the beams to make  a permanent fixture.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 08, 2017, 02:24:07 pm
oh yes, and instead of mucking about trying to double up sizes on the 1/2" scale plans that I had, I had them blown up to 1;12 scale yesterday, and these can be seen on my drawing board in background of one shot.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 10, 2017, 01:15:42 pm
I have glued the well deck in place but not before I laid it onto some ply to make templates for the side deck plates. leave it gluing over night before I fit the deck plates..........And that's it for today.................. feet up, watching tv, relaxing  and a nice strong beer in hand..............                                               

Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 10, 2017, 01:17:59 pm

that was written a couple of nights ago, did a bit more today.


the joint between the side deck support beams has now been strengthened and waterproofed by a fillet of polyester filler, right around the inner bulwarks......i'm happy now that I can start putting the deck on in sections,
 and after gluing in place the well deck I have cut to shape and added the side decks to the well deck.as no access is needed under this little bit.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 10, 2017, 09:12:26 pm
A second skin has been glued to the outside side walls of the well deck, above deck level. this will both strengthen the structure and also keep the first layer from twisting
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 11, 2017, 03:46:01 pm

There I was, charging ahead, when a sudden thought came to my head............bilge keels   errrm.........had forgotten all about them and was just about to start putting the decks on.........


so I cut two chunks of obeche from my stock, and then used the tilt table of the band saw and cut the side angles.


once cut, I used my eye, to cut the lengthways curve of each keel. I could have made a jig from a French curve I have, but it would probably have taken longer than to take the plunge and do it by guesswork...........and luckily I hit it bang on first cut......so transferred the shape to the second keel and cut that one too.


next was to drill the jointing face every 60mm or so to take a 1.8mm rod of stainless steel......which would be used to locate and hold the keel in place. I marked the position  on a piece of masking tape run along the crease of a section of plating, and as such both placed in the exact position.


the hull was then drilled to take the steel rods and the keels dry fitted.........so far so good.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 11, 2017, 09:21:15 pm
and now been glued up using very strong gaffa tape and 15 minute 2 part epoxy.......shall leave that overnight to set, and then filled on the outside, but with some grp matting and resin on the inside..
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 12, 2017, 10:07:41 am

before taking off the tape and pressure from the bilge keels, this morning I cut some strips of fine surface tissue and laid them over the steel pegs and holes on the inside of the hull, and sealed in with some polyester resin. I put 4 layers of tissue over the steel pegs/holes to give good purchase and holding power. hopefully the bile keels will now be rock solid and secure.


I also, whilst I had some resin mixed, put multiple strips of surface tissue over the top end of the water scoop tunnel on the inside to build up a little thickness to eventually take the inlet tubes for the pumps, because as yet the diameter of these hasn't been chosen.



Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 12, 2017, 12:43:57 pm
and for the rest of the morning I have filled in the gaps left between hull and bilge keels plus the top/bottom edges of the belting, and readied the fore end box for gluing on this afternoon using  something or other.....not decided yet........making it up as I go along........"he who dares" as Del boy would say. {-) {-) %% %%
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 12, 2017, 07:24:45 pm

my next job is to make the bulkheads for the two end boxes...made from 3.5mm ply a thickener around the top and sides on the inside of the bulkhead to give better adherence to the top.


they have either been added with a spacer to fit to the line of the deck or aft.


then a support for the rear rudder servo was constructed, servo added ready for when the top end box goes on permanently, and front access hatch cut out using drills first and then my Worx sonic sander to trim up. [now that was a bargain at 65 quid and a top notch universal tool to have.........cheaper brands available. O0 O0
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 13, 2017, 03:25:02 pm

all steaming along happily in order to get the end boxes on I had to fit the second half of the rear bulkhead, cutting the upper part of the servo access  port, and then gluing the bulkhead in place using epoxy.


next was to fabricate the linkage from the servo to the rudder. I was dreading this as I thought I'd have to go through the rigmarole of doing what I did with the pulling sailing boats and use cord for linkage.........but no......the main steering rod on the real ship was an external rod to the tiller bar on the rudder.........so the actual steering rod will fit under the end box and just protrude through the box immediately under the dummy steering rod. the rod was extended using two servo linkage rods and a length of brass tubing, and all silver soldered together.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on October 13, 2017, 06:20:36 pm

I cannot believe that it has only been two weeks since I took the mouldings I am working on out of the moulds. it has been a quicker build so far than any kit I have ever built.


today, and probably the last bit of work on it tonight I fitted the front end box.........using polyester car body filler, smearing it on the inside leading edges of the box and placing it onto the flanges running around the inside of the hull to locate it. I glued the lower wooden part of the bulkhead to the deck cross beam using waterproof glue. this I'll leave to set until tomorrow and under weight from batteries. then I'll fill the gaps between the top and deck.


whilst this was setting I inserted a plastic guide into the aft end box for the servo arm linkage, and set with cyano to begin with.
that's it for today.......going to have tea and a beer.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on October 13, 2017, 06:29:22 pm
Following this build with great interest,looking forward to meeting you at blackpool,I am going to dig my plans out and have a look at the drawings for my model the Queen


Baloo
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: BFSMP on October 13, 2017, 08:38:34 pm

hello, Baloo
I can't answer that for neil, but he had problems with his computer this late afternoon and couldn't post, could only send me an email asking me if I'd post for him via his daughters laptop so, I just posted what he wrote down for me.......might be a day or so before he gets it fixed, so I'll tell him you mentioned it.


Jim.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 14, 2017, 10:35:40 pm

what a cock up.........I had pressed a button yesterday on my keyboard.........hadn't a clue what I did, and it just froze everything.........couldn't even log out, so had to call my brother in to have a look................last night......seconds later I was up and running again...


anyway I have fitted both end boxes permanently and filled all gaps with filler. in fact apart from a dose of 15minute setting epoxy to fixe the top leading edge of the stern box to the bulkhead, all other edges of both boxes were located and fixed with a generous dollop of polyester filler.............it has no strength as a gluing compound unless it is left to set around and in between both joints and then it can be very effective.


once this has set firmly, tomorrow will be used to fit the deck in sections and then hopefully on Monday I can give the whole boat a good sanding and clean up ready for showing a "work in progress" at the Blackpool show next weekend.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: baloo on October 15, 2017, 09:46:06 am
Thank you Jim


Baloo
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 15, 2017, 04:56:29 pm

looking better with all its deck on,,,,,,,,,,,but the side pieces have not been fitted yet as I am working on the nozzle outlets which I'll post later.


and whilst glue was setting I had chance to give the aft port quarter of the end box a good sanding......looks a little better cleaned up.......but more to follow.
Title: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 16, 2017, 03:03:34 pm

how to turn a syringe into a water jet nozzle..


first choose a syringe the same diameter as the nozzle, and cut in two.


take each half and place on a sanding linisher and sand a tapered flat onto the "base".


cut a base so that you have an overlapping flange for attaching to hull side. glue the syringe to the plasticard base using plumbers pipe glue.


take some milliput , [I use Milliput white, the hardest of the compounds, but sands and carves beautifully] and mix the two parts together.


apply to the syringe/flange and mould into a reasonable shape as per plans, both outside the tube and inside giving some thickness to the "wall" as it is going to be moulded and castings taken from it.use water to get a smoother finish, although it will need sanding afterwards.


leave overnight to set, preferably on a warm radiator. it will go rock hard.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 16, 2017, 03:14:55 pm
next was to sand down to give boat nozzles a nice smooth surface and to regain the flange on the base so that it can be drilled to insert small picture frame pins to act as both holding points to the hull and simulate rivets on the model. the inside tunnel was also sanded. i'm going to cast these and all other fittings in none shatter polyurethane resin.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 16, 2017, 03:27:31 pm

and the final stage of this transposition from syringe to nozzle is to cast it.


Using old faithful Lego to make a casting box, I built one up to surround the two nozzles and layered the base with moulding plastecine , placed the fittings on the compound.


I filled the open ends of the nozzles with a dollop of plastecine to aid splitting the mould later, and then mixed my RTV [room temperature vulcanising rubber with catalyst and a drop of water [to aid humidity rather than finding someone's vacant airing cupboard. A tip I was given by the technical department of Alex Tiranti some years ago]..........and pour into the mould case to cover.


Leave to set and cure.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 16, 2017, 07:49:57 pm

I think there is some fear and trepidation from modellers regarding moulding their own fittings, and after I have posted similar threads I get a pm or an email asking whether it is as easy as I make it out to be............the only problem that anyone will have is wastage of resin, as the polyurethane resin that I use these days needs to be spot on weight wise AND so I use a small digital scale to get the weight exact per part, and the shelf life of the resin...........it can be dear, and I use CFS for my supplies and I make sure that I have all my fittings ready and ready moulded in rubber before I buy a two pack of resin, and then little is wasted before it goes off.


the actual making and cutting of the moulds is very easy so long as decent masters are made.........they don't have to be perfect, as they can be cleaned up once out as a moulding, ......


I do also have a centrifugal casting machine and melting pot for casting in white metal and in such circumstances just use a harder grade RTV rubber to take the heat of the metal.


so on to the mould today. the first half cured and so time for the second half.


over the years I used  a release agent supplied by Tiranti's of Reading where I would buy my rubber, and it was in aerosol spray cans, but then all of a sudden they could not supply because they said their couriers and Royal Mail would not carry spray cans...........I spoke to the tech dept, and the guy said why was I wasting my money on spray cans anyway, as common good old Vaseline was a far better release agent than any they could supply when moulding the two halves together. And once you have pulled the masters from the mould halves, you never need to re apply a release agent again anyway........it is only used to stop the second half of the rubber mould sticking to the first half when making the original moulds.


so here it is, the finished mould for the two nozzles.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on October 17, 2017, 12:11:41 am
 :o :o :o

No wonder us poor kids can't afford to buy Lego blocks anymore :(( :(( :((

You big kids are gobbling em all up. <*< <*< <*<

 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 17, 2017, 12:32:14 am

what ya mean matey.........I've had most of that since I WAS a kid...........however a very kind member on here did send me a box full of longer sections 2-3 years ago as a gift, as I was making quite a few moulds all at once.and I am eternally grateful to him for his kindness..........would name him but fear he would be inundated with requests from other members.............but you know who you are kind sir.


they must be the best ever toy/building medium for kids and adults all, and anyone of 65 and under must have had a set at least once in their lives............I love it.........a brilliant concept never really surpassed. O0 :-))
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on October 27, 2017, 04:59:16 pm

I can't do anymore to the hull now until I have been to the centrifugal pump man over near Blackburn, and have been busy all week tending to my daughter who has been suffering from acute tonsillitis, and has not been well at all. kept me busy, poor thing........so hopefully will make contact next week.
So, until then I have found a little time off this afternoon and cut myself some 4mm square strips of mahogany. These are the supports for the bench seats inside the Well deck at the stern.
I set up a gauge on the band saw and cut 40 lengths of strip in two different lengths for the cross and vertical struts.
I then used a jig that I had made to cut such struts for my Liverpool class boat nearly ten years ago so that I can cut half housing joints perfectly every time......only 80 joints to cut........160 cuts in total..........might be loosing the will to live at the end of it, lol.


These eventually will be glued together using aliphatic resin and then sanded smooth..........A bit of repetitive woodwork never hurt anyone, lol
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 02, 2017, 11:03:27 pm

All bench supports have now been cut, glued together and sanded down into sets of 3...........bit of a blunder in that I only cut enough for 60% of the supports that I had envisaged, but as there are no actual plans contemporary to the actual boats, only supposition and basic line and GA plans[ the nearest I had were blue prints that were lost 25 years ago]then modellers licence has to be used, and instead of 5 sets of supports per bench I am going to suffice with 3 sets.


Unfortunately because of the lack of detailed plans,I make a bold statement here and say............all those models built of these steam lifeboats will always be with some modellers licence and none will ever be true scale, even that of the impressive Duke of Northumberland built by Les Jones. This is by no means a criticism, of his or anyone else's build.............just that true detailed plans are just not available, unless tucked away and hidden in some vaults somewhere for obscure reasons.


I also soaked the lathes for the bench tops and then clamped them up, before putting them across some deck beams with weights on to allow to dry, ready for cutting and fitting.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 03, 2017, 12:05:19 am
have also made the " access doors" into the rear end box, by laminating two pieces of ply together..........the inner piece being an exact fit to the rectangular hole which allows access to the steering servo........and the outer piece being larger in all four ways to overlap te hole, and drawn onto it the panelling and simulated doors for access.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 03, 2017, 03:12:43 pm

small detailing, but presuming that the rest of the superstructure and wind shields to the aft well deck are made from the same material as the hull, either steel or iron, they will have had to have been riveted together.


and so I have covered all jointing points with plasticard angle "iron"  to simulate the same on the real prototype.


"rivets" will be added later using glue sticks.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 03, 2017, 04:29:46 pm
.........the capping rail to the well deck has now been added in 3 sections using 2.5mm obeche.......just needs sanding once the 5minute epoxy has cured .
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 04, 2017, 02:24:43 pm
the gussets to the main engine casing from the well deck walls have been made and faired in, filled and sanded,..........and then the inner bench seats made.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 04, 2017, 02:26:30 pm
benches made, temporarily fitted and Samson posts cut ready for shaping. I have brackets for these that I made for my pulling/sailing lifeboats.....
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2017, 07:48:19 pm

Today, I sprayed the inside of the well deck, after giving liberal coats of sanding sealer and rubbing down with steel wool. I gave just one coat of white to the inside  to begin with.


Then I stained the tops of the benches with dark mahogany to see what the interior will look like..............I'm pleased so far with the result. O0


Finally I decided to fit the curved pieces of top laths to the curved benches that fit port and starboard. To do this I drilled each lath with an 0.5mm drill bit to take picture framing pins of the same diameter at intervals, spacing them evenly across the benches width.


once this was done I started to glue them onto the benches from the outside in............just the middle lath on each bench now to glue. Thicknesses vary at the moment but once set, the pins will be removed and each bench sanded on my belt linisher.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Canterbury Coxswain on November 07, 2017, 11:17:50 pm
Neil,
Yet again some superb work by yourself, along with the step-by-step construction commentary that helps us all learn along the way the  processes and techniques you have employed in the build itself [some totally new to many of us] - even allowing an insight when things go wrong.
Watching and enjoying very much.
Kim
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2017, 11:32:30 pm

Neil,
Yet again some superb work by yourself, along with the step-by-step construction commentary that helps us all learn along the way the  processes and techniques you have employed in the build itself [some totally new to many of us] - even allowing an insight when things go wrong.
Watching and enjoying very much.
Kim


Thanks for those kind comments Kim,............and if I didn't mention  the cock ups that I make, I wouldn't have half as much to write about,  {-) ................but its all a learning cycle at the end of the day...........there's another big blunder coming up..............but I'm trying to work out best way to avoid the problem..............we shall see. %% %% %%
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 08, 2017, 09:11:17 pm
The two side benches have been glued trimmed and sanded...................just need to be stained now and then ready for fitting eventually once other fittings have been put in place underneath the benches final positions.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 08, 2017, 10:02:55 pm
Neil.....that is a rather large volume in the Well Deck :o...In the old image of the D of N.....we do not see any scupper drains from the Well, above water level that is [or unless they are below the rubbing strake?]

Do your plans indicate these?.....as a big green jolly could fill the Well very quickly...

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 08, 2017, 10:39:42 pm

Neil.....that is a rather large volume in the Well Deck :o ...In the old image of the D of N.....we do not see any scupper drains from the Well, above water level that is [or unless they are below the rubbing strake?]

Do your plans indicate these?.....as a big green jolly could fill the Well very quickly...

Derek


hi Derek..........no.........there is no detailing on the plans of side scuppers.............BUT there are circular rings, un-named on the plans which I presume are self bailing tubes with none return valves [ usually a ball valve at that time I believe  ] which were noted on the plans of similar age to those which I made the two pulling/sailing lifeboats from [now in the masterclass section].........here's a photo of them .............but literally just rings on the plan. the actual valves were just tubes running from the deck through the hull at the bottom with the valve in............very primitive but worked well.
Title: Re: I tried........oh how I tried!!!
Post by: Neil on November 09, 2017, 03:40:52 pm
This afternoon I went down to the Volkswagon garage to pay for a repair on my daughters' Polo, when this beauty pulled up.........the owner and I got chatting about it and le let me sit in the passenger set..............never been offered that by a Ferrari driver................what a beautiful looking car.........tried to swap it for two model lifeboats...............but he just didn't seem interested...........can't understand why not.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Bob K on November 09, 2017, 04:31:01 pm
You should have realised Neil, the going rate for that model of Ferrari is THREE model lifeboats  {-)
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 09, 2017, 05:32:15 pm

bob, for the advice..............I must try harder next time...........but I'd only give one lifeboat for a Ferrari..........that beasty was a Lamborghini Aventador rag top............... a far more beautiful car ........well, in my mind.............but I'm a bit odd like that, lol.


Anyway.........that was a nice brief diversion.........back to the build lol................but I can still dream.


The laths have been glued to the fore and aft bench seats now, and sanded evenly to the same thickness as the curved port and starboard benches., approximately 0.75mm thick. having marked where the centres of the laths on the benches fit at the mitres they fit pretty well.

 And then all have been stained with deep mahogany wood stain. I'll let this dry before I paint with satin yacht varnish.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 09, 2017, 11:33:27 pm

Neil...In the old image of the D of N.....
Derek


by the way Derek..........that picture if labelled Duke of N is wrong........its either the Queen or City of Glasgow...........single funnel and much less bulbous rear and in fact fore end boxes and the Duke ando had a semi circular tunnel to hide the steering linkages on the top of the aft box.........this boat doesn't have it.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 10, 2017, 01:29:57 am
Neil......the image I used was from posting #80 in this thread.....apparently 1890 images from Grace's Guide to the  D of N  %) .... it certainly bears the reference to the D of N

The image is so square on, could there be a second funnel hiding behind the Port side funnel......how many guy wires are there on each funnel?

I am sure the RN were the greatest organization in the World....to have Plans drawn, approved for construction & some Desk Admiral changes his mind & the ship as built bears little resemblance in detail to the original plan...so the same may have happened with smaller vessels.....

Derek
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 10, 2017, 09:00:39 am

aye...................sorry to doubt you derek............spot on as usual mate............it would seem that the tunnel on the aft end box must have been added at a later stage.


you can see from this model and another picture of the real thing that the "tunnel" is present............but I think i'll leave it off as your picture shows, as thought it a little unsightly.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 10, 2017, 09:21:08 am
Neil....are these 2 points...the fwd suction and aft discharge of the ''self bailing" venturi system you mention?...if this is the case, would these 2 to be for the engine room?  ...or would the engine room space bilge be lower than this?

Or could the scuppers from the Well Deck be ported or plumbed fwd to the wider beam? [to catch a greater water flow for the inlet/suction]
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 10, 2017, 09:55:49 am

Neil....are these 2 points...the fwd suction and aft discharge of the ''self bailing" venturi system you mention?...if this is the case, would these 2 to be for the engine room?  ...or would the engine room space bilge be lower than this?

Or could the scuppers from the Well Deck be ported or plumbed here? [to catch a greater water flow for the inlet/suction]


hi derek.....those, and the same on the other side are the outlets for the fore and aft propulsion [photos 1 and 2].......the induction of water is centrally sited on the duke as can be seen in photo on the very first post I made on this thread in 2015.....last photo................the inlets/outlets for the queen and city of g were different..........the queen WAS the same as the duke to begin with but for some reason kept clogging on trials and for some time after and it and the last of the jet boats was changed to a different configutation that I cannot work out and why I changed from building the Glasgow to the Duke.
Title: The art of improvisation
Post by: Neil on November 10, 2017, 03:15:49 pm

A useful tip for those with a laithe.


I have come to the point where I need to make the bases for the funnels......I have the brass should I need it to turn a base which will end as a plug to sit the funnels in for the Duke of Northumberland which is 25mm diameter, but the funnel for the Queen is over 30mm diameter and I haven't any brass of over 35-38mm to turn one for this funnel, and I know a man who needs one to fit that diameter funnel. so rather than buy a chunk of brass long enough to steady in a 3 jaw chuck on my laithe I decided to go down the route that I have done before.


As you can see I throw little away in my workshop, thinking "one day"......and the used silicon gun tubes once empty is no different.Today was just one of "those days"...


I cut the tube down to a length needed, and san one end into a wodge of plastecine, set on some greased baking paper.Then placing the tube into a margarine tub to prevent any leaking onto the bench I mixed some polyester resin.....same as what I use for laying up moulds and poured it into the tube, and left to set.


Later I'll be able to turn the bases that I need from the solid cylinder of resin.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 10, 2017, 07:05:54 pm

well, that went well.............I think not............a case of far too much catalyst to resin......which has resulted in the whole thing crazing and cracking.


back to the drawing board, and start again.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 10, 2017, 10:47:48 pm
this time I used some finishing epoxy resin that I bought some time ago to do a small job and had almost all the twin bottles left.........that seems to have done the trick, and is just curing at the moment.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: JimG on November 11, 2017, 12:52:25 pm
You may have more success as epoxy produces less heat when curing. The cracking in the polyester resin was due to it overheating. In thin layers like glassing a hull the resin stays cooler as it can lose heat more easily. In larger volumes the heat is trapped and can't escape, in extreme cases the resin can catch fire. You may have had more success if you had put your mold in a container if cold water.

Jim
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: SailorGreg on November 11, 2017, 01:13:40 pm
No report yet from Neil, but epoxy is just as prone to a vigorous exothermic reaction as polyester.  Indeed, if mixing a large quantity of epoxy the recommendation is to pour the mix into a shallow tray to delay the heat build up.  Neil, I hope you haven't found out the hard way that epoxy can bite back!   <:(


Greg
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 11, 2017, 04:46:49 pm

ah, yes gents.......never a truer word lol...........Neil, I hope you haven't found out the hard way that epoxy can bite back!    ..........but all my fault......rushing the second one, being arrogant, because the first one came out so well.


first one went so well, but i'd noticed that there were some flaws in the cast resin so picked the worst part to try on..........working very slowly, it went well........and so picked the piece with what looked like the least of the flaw..............and wow, crunch, kaput.......


so I have cast some more resin this afternoon to get the second smaller base for the thinner funnel of the other boat design.........it has now been hardening for nearly 3 hours with a much smaller amount of catalyst.........but at least hopefully it will be without flaws...these cast blanks are polyester resin, not epoxy.





Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Charlie on November 13, 2017, 04:07:16 pm
Hi Neil,
Saw another Steam Lifeboat at Warwick, and immediately thought of your project. Hope these may be of some use. I didn't see any info about the boat or the builder, on the stand.
Charlie
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 13, 2017, 06:25:18 pm
thanks Charlie, much appreciated.......there are little things on that boat that give good detailing info. cheers. :-))
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 15, 2017, 04:48:40 pm

made some moulds from rubber last night and  poured the rubber in today........they are odds and sods such as small rope brackets, the supports for the navigation light boards, scuttle ports, well deck drainers and the funnel bases
just waiting for those to cure.


But then staring at the drawings, I realised that if I didn't make a rudder pintel foot, I'd have no rudder, and one embarrassment of my voith powered ferry going round in circles without steerage was enough for anyone, so made a "foot" from 10mm 5 ply, cut an indentation out of the grp keelson and stern post. Drilled the wooden foot, offered it up to the hull and drilled the hull, and then glued and pinned the foot to the hull with 15minute epoxy, and left to set.


I can make the rudder now from laminated layers of 1.6mm ply running at right angles  to each other layer, so that it won't warp and twist. more to come tomorrow.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 16, 2017, 12:20:52 pm


Following on from the rudder skeg, has to follow the rudder itself..........and what a whopper it is. No doubt made large to give better steerage as I don't suppose there was much engine steerage from the water jets themselves.


because it is so large, I decided to make it from birch faced ply for the inner section and mahogany faced water proof ply for the exterior. I also made it from four layers, the outside layers having the grain running vertically and made from 1.8mm ply. one inner layer of 2.0mm thickness had the grain running horizontal, and the final inner layer of 1.5mm ply with the grain running at 45degrees.


I did this in order for stability of the timber, because running the grains alternately, the rudder, as big as it is will not then have a tendency to twist or warp, even if it spends a great deal of time getting wet.........which I doubt will happen anyway. Sadly with my bad back and arthritis they seldom get their bums wet anymore.


you might notice from the first photo that on the rear edge of the rudder, the outer skin overlaps by around 10mm along its length. the other outer skin does also. this is to facilitate the square section brass tube that will be inserted into the trough, which then will be filed at sections to take the brackets that the solid brass bar that will run up through the square section, and through the holed in the brackets which will then be glued into the stern post..............making the whole rudder as one assembly..............if it confuses you, then it has certainly been a brain teaser to me, but all will be revealed once the rudder is glued together. 


I used aliphatic waterproof glue and plenty of clamps to give even pressure all over whilst gluing up. I'll release it in a few hours once cured.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: tonyH on November 16, 2017, 04:30:42 pm
Hi Neil,


If you look to Graces Guide and The Engineer of 05/09/1890, you'll find the full report on The Duke of Northumberland where they describe the use of the 'turbine' alone and with the rudder and also the use of the rudder when under lug sail.
Good pic and drawings as well.


Tony
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 16, 2017, 04:43:52 pm

thank tony......I think I have a copy on file but the printing is so small I've only ever read snippets.


however I am sure that they could on the actual boat, manipulate the jets so that, like propellers  could be operated singularly and allow her to spin on her axes.........just have to fin some simple cut off valves that are loose enough for decent servos to be able to operate.


I've tried  plumbers isolation valves but they are far too tight to turn via servo,
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 16, 2017, 04:53:30 pm


I've just been looking at cut off valves for water pipes..............has anyone come across these two manifolds for hose pipes and if so how stiff are those taps.


the reason of asking is whether a servo would be able to shift the tap..............this would be a dream come true if they could.


if one of these could be utilised with servos operating the taps, only one centrifugal pump would be needed.


saw them on Amazon.


neil
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: tonyH on November 16, 2017, 08:42:44 pm
Hi Neil,

Some are stiffer than others. They're from normal garden 1/2" hoses or from the larger, commercial 3/4" ones. There are several about from Hozelock etc. so it's a case of going to your nearest garden centre/hardware shop and find the loosest! Just DON'T USE THE HOSE FITTINGS! If the pressure is too high they can pop off and that would not be entertaining atall!

I'm on a similar quest to you because I'm playing with a similar problem on an anti-sub trawler tried out with the Thornycroft hydraulic propulsion system in 1917/18.

Good Luck

Tony
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 16, 2017, 09:00:59 pm

Hi Neil,

Some are stiffer than others. They're from normal garden 1/2" hoses or from the larger, commercial 3/4" ones. There are several about from Hozelock etc. so it's a case of going to your nearest garden centre/hardware shop and find the loosest! Just DON'T USE THE HOSE FITTINGS! If the pressure is too high they can pop off and that would not be entertaining atall!

I'm on a similar quest to you because I'm playing with a similar problem on an anti-sub trawler tried out with the Thornycroft hydraulic propulsion system in 1917/18.

Good Luck

Tony


thanks tony.........been chatting to Dave Milbourn and it is possible that i'm going down the route of one pump, one manifold with all valves set to open and having a 12v solenoid switch on each branch which would then allow independent flow on any of the jet nozzles.


your trawler sounds a really interesting project.........feel free to post some pics of her on here..............if I can post a Lamborghini aventador..........I have no objections to a water jet drive armed trawler at all.........would love to see both real and model boats. neil.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2017, 11:56:59 am
The rudder has come along a pace and the laminates have glued well.


the square tubing has been glued into the "trough" with 2 part epoxy and the rudder skeg has had a brass tube insert glued into it to take the round rod  forming the rudder bar.


the top steering tiller has been basically cut to shape which links to the servo and the rudder has been cut with inserts by my invaluable jewellery  piercing saw. the rudder stock brackets have been fitted and the stern post drilled to take the brackets.................and all has been dry fitted together............IT WORKS, lol...........and without a hitch or mistake.............just brilliant.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Charlie on November 17, 2017, 01:15:46 pm
Hi Neil,
Seeing the Rudder in place makes me wonder how maneuverable the full size boat would have been, seeing as how there will be no wash from a prop flowing past the Rudder. During your research, have you found any contemporary accounts from her crew of how she handled?
Charlie
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: tonyH on November 17, 2017, 01:29:09 pm
Hi Neil, thanks for the interest in the trawler but I'm still at the early stage of planning. There are no obvious plans of the installation but the hull was a standard build and there's lots of written stuff on the original model trials in 1917 and the trials on the Thames. Also, I'm going back to the original propulsion development from 1890's onwards.
Have a look at jacuzzi diverter valves for the outlet side - may be of interest ;)

Charlie, I'll scan the 3 pages of stuff on the Duke of Nortumberland trials etc. as a separate reply.

Tony
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2017, 02:05:59 pm


Hi Neil,
Seeing the Rudder in place makes me wonder how maneuverable the full size boat would have been, seeing as how there will be no wash from a prop flowing past the Rudder. During your research, have you found any contemporary accounts from her crew of how she handled?
Charlie


I wonder that, but on looking at the diagrams of the machinery, I think that each jet  could be used independently and as such would aid steering. however, the rudder is colossal compared with contemporary  pulling and sailing and later single engine lifeboats, so I suppose this helps. however the boat I am modelling mine on, and theres been a change of plan here in that I have chosen the City of Glasgow again, had the nozzles for forward propulsion fitted aft of the bilges on that boat and much closer and deeper than the Duke of Northumberland.


you can see the jets on the stern of the City of Glasgow on this museum which is in the Science museum in London, close under the counter. however, I haven't a clue what the two small oval marks are, astern of the jet nozzle,
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2017, 02:20:15 pm
ill have a look at Jacuzzi valves, thanks........and Charlie..........I think that reports from crew would be held at RNLI headquarters, and when they turn round and offer no help by the way of plans of boats for modellers, I just can't be bothered in contacting them for more "hard to get and find" info.........think I'd just be adding stress to what has been a pretty easy and straight forward  build so far, but thanks for the thoughts and interest. much appreciated from all who have commented so far.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: tonyH on November 17, 2017, 02:41:38 pm
Hi Neil & Charlie,

Scanning is a waste of time but this is the link to the trials report on the Duke of Northumberland which had, as far as I am aware, the same propulsion system etc. The nozzles were changed but the principle was the same so that the rudder had some effect but not hugely.
The system was developed from the original Ruthven/Thornycroft mechanics used on the torpedo boat trials of 1881 etc. The main modification being the shape of the inlet side to give a smoother flow. Bearing also in mind that the efficiency of the system as a whole was only in the region of 25% compared to the screw equivalent in the 40-50% range.

Here's the link https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1890/09/05 (https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1890/09/05)

Cheers

Tony

PS You may have to sign in to Grace's but it's OK and download the 19 pages but you need pages 192/193/194.

PPS Hi Neil, Just noticed the other thread about sound modules. The pump ran about 400rpm only so maybe a grumble rather than a whine?
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Charlie on November 17, 2017, 05:40:28 pm
That's a great link Tony. Neil was correct, they did use the jets to manoeuvre the boat. This is an extract from 'The Engineer', which answers my question perfectly :-)


During the early part of the run we had an eloquent though unrehearsed exhibition of the admirable manoeuvring power of the boat. A sudden gust of wind having blown off the cap of the pilot, who under Captain Chetwynd's direction handled the boat during the day, by a few turns of the valve handle the little vessel was stopped and put full speed astern in a few moments. The steering being just too fine, the boat ran right over the cap, and the deck hand, who had a boat book ready, failed to catch it; the direction of the boat was again reversed, and after circling round the cap it was picked up, the engines all the time going full speed in the only direction in which they run, and making about 400 revolutions per min.; the engineers and firemen to all intents and purposes being quite ignorant of what was being done. Indeed, one of the greatest advantages of the boat is that it can be entirely manoeuvred by one man, who has never to give an order to reverse his engines, and never to wait until that operation is completed before the vessel is again under his command. By merely turning the handles, which control the delivery from the turbine he can go ahead or astern, slowly or at full speed as he wishes, and as he can also steer his ship to a nicety he is quite independent of a coxswain. Many times during the trial under notice was the service of a coxswain dispensed with, and the boat was freely manoeuvred in and out amidst barges, boats, and steamers by turbine alone.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2017, 07:06:58 pm
Thanks guys , that was a very interesting read, and just shows how manoeuvrable these boats were, which to be honest actually surprises me. O0
Title: who says museums aren't helpful
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2017, 11:56:43 am


a week or so ago I sent off a request to the Science Museum asking if anyone could possibly take some photos of the steam lifeboat  City of  Glasgow as I was building a model of her and had little information........


this was the reply I received yesterday.


what more could anyone ask..........brilliant response.

Dear Neil,
Many thanks for your enquiry and interest in the Science Museum’s collections, and apologies for the delay in reply while the request was processed. It sounds like a very interesting project, especially as it will be a working model, and to raise money for the RNLI too. 
The model in our collections is object number 1912-130. I will be able to take photographs of this model for you, from all angles as you suggest, and will try to find the jets you mention around the stern – is this by the rudder? Are there any other details you are particularly hoping to capture? I’m afraid I am not a ship model expert so please excuse my questions!
Also just to forewarn you, it might take a couple of weeks to get the photos to you, as it is currently in quite deep storage and in a crate, so it will take a bit of time. I hope that’s OK, and we will try and do it as soon as we can. Once I have taken the photos the model will go back into storage, which is why I am particularly keen to get all the details you require because that will be my opportunity. 
I look forward to hearing from you and hope you have a good weekend.
Best wishes,
Natasha


I  replied immediately......what a wonderful lady.

Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Canterbury Coxswain on November 25, 2017, 12:08:42 pm
It's so nice when 'humans' with courtesy and manners reply in such  a way that you can understand what they say and feel they are trying to help, when we seem to be in a world and 'work ethic' of 'I don't have time'. Great contact Neil and I hope they come up with what you want and it helps with the build process.
Keep up the good work and maybe Natasha will get a Christmas card!!
Kim
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2017, 12:15:10 pm

It's so nice when 'humans' with courtesy and manners reply in such  a way that you can understand what they say and feel they are trying to help, when we seem to be in a world and 'work ethic' of 'I don't have time'. Great contact Neil and I hope they come up with what you want and it helps with the build process.
Keep up the good work and maybe Natasha will get a Christmas card!!
Kim


I don't send many Kim, but that lady will certainly get one from the snowy north............and yes I totally agree with you.
it actually gave me a lump in my throat how helpful the lady was......a lovely change from somewhat the norm everywhere these days.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 25, 2017, 06:50:06 pm
Well Neil....that Natasha sounds like a bit of allright  :kiss:....[opps.......helpful I mean :embarrassed: ]....

Just for interest I checked the distance in travel time from Fleetwood to Glasgow = 3 hours & 7 minutes......and knowing this if would be no real difference for me to drive from Wollongong to Newcastle = 3 hours & 1 minute

When you were in OZ....you would have no hesitation of driving such a distance...so why not go to the Museum yourself?...and afterwards buy Natasha a McDonalds 1/4 Pounder & Coke.......or a Pie & a Pint of Guiness black beer

Derek 
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2017, 07:03:57 pm
hi mate.........went to Glasgow last Tuesday for the launch of the new ferry............it took 4 and a quarter hours the weather was so bad.......torrential rain all the way............3 hours is in perfect conditions in good light traffic............but the museum the model is in storage at is in London.................and not even for Sophia Loren flashing her bits would I drive to London these days.................and a train down there would cost me 120 quid.............I'll send her a chrimbo card, lol.
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 25, 2017, 07:11:11 pm
Goodness ...I sure got the location cocked up  :embarrassed:...............120 English pounds for rail travel to London  <*< ...so if you did, you could always call on Liz & Phil to put you up for the night  {-)

In OZ, with my Pensioner Card ...I could travel from Wollongong to Newcastle return for $2.00 AUD  O0
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2017, 07:30:44 pm

Goodness ...I sure got the location cocked up  :embarrassed: ...............120 English pounds for rail travel to London  <*< ...so if you did, you could always call on Liz & Phil to put you up for the night  {-)

In OZ, with my Pensioner Card ...I could travel from Wollongong to Newcastle return for $2.00 AUD  O0


it would probably be cheaper to fly to London, but I hate the place with a loathsomeness.........my god Derek.....that's cheap.........get 10% off if we lucky, lol., and I'm sure Phil would put me up, as I have met and spoken to him personally twice..............don't know about Liz though, never actually met her except at arms length when during her silver jubilee she unveiled the war memorial at the museum in Canberra. lol
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: derekwarner on November 25, 2017, 08:02:55 pm
Yes ...in NSW we have the OPAL card system for all public transport.....add some $ to your card & the computer deducts your fare from the card

As pensioners, we have a $2.00 return fare any where in NSW during one day.......so Wollongong to Newcastle return is $2.00....if I stayed for a night it is also it would $2.00 for the next day return or to anywhere

Sorry to be off thread ....7.00 AM from Wollongong to Central...ride on the Sydney harbour ferry system all day ...best harbour in the World & catch the 5:08 PM from Central back to Wollongong all for $2.00  O0

I do remember the day when ERII opened the War Memorial at the museum
Title: Re: A NEW LIFEBOAT MODEL... STEAM LIFEBOAT QUEEN
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2017, 08:09:55 pm

Yes ...in NSW we have the OPAL card system for all public transport.....add some $ to your card & the computer deducts your fare from the card

As pensioners, we have a $2.00 return fare any where in NSW during one day.......so Wollongong to Newcastle return is $2.00....if I stayed for a night it is also it would $2.00 for the next day return or to anywhere

Sorry to be off thread ....7.00 AM from Wollongong to Central...ride on the Sydney harbour ferry system all day ...best harbour in the World & catch the 5:08 PM from Central back to Wollongong all for $2.00  O0

I do remember the day when ERII opened the War Memorial at the museum


that is amazing Derek...........could never imagine our governments  according us those well earned privileges ...........as for ER11..........it was a good sunny day, and the school being next door building to the memorial gave a "guard of honour" with all the year 7/8 kids to line the way..............being a whinging pom I was given the pleasant duty of taking the kids down to the parade, lol Phil told me off for not wearing a tie on a scorching hot day, lol.