Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: bfgstew on June 03, 2015, 09:51:38 pm
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After lots of head scratching, umpteen thousand drawings made, several breakdowns and numerous headaches I have finally finished converting some old plans for the AHTS Granit into something that can and hopefully will be made into a working model.
I came across the plans at Free Ship Plans (http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/granit-tugboat-plans/), needed a lot of work to get the hull lines and frames all together but I have eventually finished it.
I created it in AutoCad to see how it all looks and has turned out better than I expected, never having used AutoCad before it was, to say the least, a very steep learning curve. Here are some screen shots of the 3D model I have generated, all I need now is a Kress milling motor and I can start cutting some wood.
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Isn't there a local that will CNC, or waterjet cut your parts for you?
Or has the goal been to build the CNC machine from day one? %)
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CNC came first, its now an excuse to combine the two................ :-))
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Err I don't want to put a downer on your superb drawing of the ship but--- they are all here......
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-boats-general-discussion-77/8982034-boat-plans.html#post8982058 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-boats-general-discussion-77/8982034-boat-plans.html#post8982058)
Posted by Umi.
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Err... Brian ... that's the very plan bfgstew said he used to created his 3D model. Not woken up yet ? Need an extra cup of coffee ? :P
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Sorry missed that. Must be something to do with only having 2 hours sleep last night.
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No worries Brian, I know what sleep deprivation can do to a man! ok2 ok2 ok2
I attempted to make the drawings a bit more concise as the originals are a bit untidy as they have been scanned slightly differently. It was a combined process of converting those plans, using AutoCad (No experience), and building a CNC mill to cut the frames and other things with. So now I have a set of plans that are ready to go and a CNC miller to cut the wood with, hopefully a bit more accurate than a scroll saw............. :-))
Stewart
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I would say CNC is a little less work than using a scroll saw, but you
have spent about about seven months working on the CAD drawings.
O0
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At last my CNC is fully operational, I have converted all my drawings into Gcode and at last wood has been cut, just one piece but it is a start.
Because of the smallish footprint of my CNC (Scrappy), longer sections like the keel have had to be broken into smaller sections, these will be dovetailed together and glued to hopefully give one nice solid keel to work from. One down four more to go for the keel, but time is not on my side as I now have a five day stretch at work, so not going to get anymore done until then. Will keep you posted.
Stewart
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Good to see your first cut is a success..
8)
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Good morning all,
I have finished cutting the keel out and am very impressed with the accuracy and quality of the cuts with minimal finishing.
Now to 'lay' the keel on my new building board and start cutting the frames out........................ :-))
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Very good. :-)) :-))
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Hi have just joined (from Cyrus) and have been tracing out the same free plan that you have used with AutoCAD. I have some final bits to finish on the dwg. I know the brainstorming that is required to learn AutoCAD without lessons, I have been using it a few years now to design RC aircraft and thankfully I bought a massive tome on an old version which was extremely useful although out of date a lot was applicable to a later version though I have not got in to 3D as yet. I am contemplating making a plug first to make a FG mould. To operate it as full size it requires that port and starboard motors can be operated totally independent of each other and other channels required for rudders and thruster etc. Having visited a local boat club in UK on holiday I was advised that Robbe 14 Tx would fit the bill but on searching the web I find that Robbe are out of business - what have you planned as a controlling Tx ? I Have r TXs for flying, 2 Futaba one of which I converted to 2.4 with FRSKY and also a Hitec 6 also converted to 2.4 which will not fit the requirements unless there is something clever I can do to them.
My drawing is currently at a length of 92.5 cms but can be scaled at the flick of a button. It will require ballasting to float a working draft and I an a bit reluctant to make it too large as the ballast weighting could cause back damage. I don't know if you have published any size details of your model prior to my joining recently. Will be watching your progress with interest.
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I have managed to progress a little more on the Granit. The build board has been marked out and clamping blocks screwed in place and have now laid the keel.................(at last I hear you all cry).
I have used up my supply of plywood and have machined out half the frames and couldn't resist a little 'dry' fit to see how it looks, and am impressed with the accuracy and quality of the cuts, but time will tell, still a long way to go before this gets finished.........................(off for some more plywood).
Thanks for watching and will keep you posted.
Stewart
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Not had a chance to replenish my plywood stock so I decided to start glueing the frames I have cut out onto the keel.
Started at the rear of the forecastle deck frame and am using this as the datum, so squared it all up and with 2 uprights and a couple of 2mm lengths of round bar under the framethis was glued in true and square. Left it overnight to go off then proceeded to fit the stern frame, just to give me a line of sight so to speak down the length of the hull. This was done with 2 squares and a straight edge across the frame, clamped at the correct height, squared to the keel and glued, left overnight to set. Filling in the rest of the frames was then stright forward, using the 2mm bar to set the frame height off the build board, square from the keel and a straight edge between the earlier fitted frames. Lastly the two side ribs were just glued and slotted into place, elastic bands helping the whole thing to sit hard up against it register on each frame. Now to let it all set, remove the bands and start to think about the next stage.
Thanks for watching
Stewart
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All ship shape & square Stew :-))....keep the images coming.........
Did you ever work in a ball bearing factory that also made largish cylindrical roller bearings? {-) ...... Derek
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Was wondering if anyone would mention those! No I didn't Derek, I did my apprenticeship at a company called W.H.Allen in Bedford and collected many odds and sods over the years and these are some of them, like you said, out of an old bearing, I have some big balls as well......................not joking %% %% %% %% %% .
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I have made a bit more progress, all frames are now cut and assembled, added stringers to give the hull a bit of rigidity. Bow and stern are going to have balsa blocks, only because I don't think I could form those shapes as this is my first ever build! Now to profile each frame so I can start to plank/skin the hull, going to do it using thin ply and Obechi strips, wish me luck!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for watching and any advise on planking/skinning would be gratefully received.
Stewart
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:-)) :-)) :-))
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BFGstew, looking really good :-))
About your CNC Miller, is it something you have at home in your workshop or is it a large machine at your place of work? I'm really interested as the cut quality looks superb. I have to cut and sand each individual frame.
When I built my first boat (Lena, here on Mayhem) I also planked it with pine strips. Some things that I was advised about and some things I learned myself were that pine cracks, splits and can leak pine resin. Don't worry though, I just sanded the cracks and splits, then filled with filler. Once my hull was smooth I gave a generous coating of fibreglass resin and sanded smooth. Make sure you coat the inside as well as the outside as any humidity will warp the wood. After doing that my Lena happily sails around in salt water.
Sorry if you already know all this but it helped me on my first build so I'm just passing it on...... U2
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U2, my CNC is nothing special and lives in my workshop, I made it purely to see if I could make it and then realised its potential, its far from perfect but it does cut plywood well, the secret is using the correct tool and feedrates.
Thanks for your experiences on planking, I am trying not to panic too much, take one step at a time, listen to what others say and read as much as I can up on the subject. But I did realise I have not got the bow thruster in yet, so best do that first, otherwise my big sausage fingers will struggle to get it in that space!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for watching
Stewart
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A little more progress before I endevour to start planking/skinning this.
Rear deck, forecastle deck, battery floor and motor mounting plate cut and fitted. I did realise that the anchor ways will need putting in before planking, so that is going to be my next task along with the bow thruster.
Beginning to take shape and starting to look like a ship?
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Stewart that is really starting to look amazing mate :-)) Looking back now at this stage in my Alpine build, I would recommend that you drill some holes through the frames to route all of the wiring through. I wish that I had done this as it would have made my wiring routing far easier. I wouldn't have put too much thought into it just some holes that can be used at a later stage - Keep the pics coming!
Oh and I estimate that there is about 10M of wiring in my build at the moment!!
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Hi Stewart
I'm really enjoying your build and please keep the photos coming. Is Santa bringing you some nice electrics?
Dave
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Cheers Mark for the advice, I was thinking of it when I was drawing it all up, but decided against it for some strange reason, you have got me thinking again. I will have a look at what can be done.
Dave, I shall be getting pants and socks, Santa doesn't believe in fancy stuff like that for crimbo <:( <:( <:( [size=78%]. I shall have to start designing stuff up.........or dip into the old slush fund....[/size] ok2 ok2 ok2 ok2 ok2
Cheers for watching.
Stewart
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I'm also following this with great interest, your off to a good start for sure! :-))
Keep the pictures coming!
Hama
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Thanks for the encouragement chaps.
Did a bit more 3D work on the KORT set up, rather than try to make something that would take ages and not look right, I decided to go down the 3D printing route and this would cost £40+ from shapeways. Has anyone had good results using them/this type of product for KORT nozzles?
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I've had some nozzles made from what they call 'strong, white, flexible'. The finish is a little rough and you need to wipe it over with acetone which smooths the surface.
Not sure if they are robust enough to take any knocks as bits at the bottom usually do. If you have some support below them they might be fine.
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What size Kort do you need?
There are a couple sizes of Kort nozzles here.
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/davidsohlstrom (http://www.shapeways.com/shops/davidsohlstrom)
:-))
Or are you printing that whole set up?
Should print pretty well in Strong flexible to frosted detail.
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Interesting material nomination from Shapeways Umi............. %)... Derek
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Interesting material nomination from Shapeways Umi............. %) ... Derek
That one is also a 6 inch diameter nozzle. :o
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Hi Umi,
They are designed to accept 60mm Kort props and are 130mm between centres, my idea was to have it printed as one unit, the horizontal fin will be fitted through the keel and the vertical fins would be cut to fit between frames then glued in place once all aligned. The 3D printing route was for accuracy, I was thinking of fabricating it from brass, but the braizing process may add distortion. The only other way would be to use some sort of PVC, fabricate each part then build it up like an Airfix kit, as long as the prop shafts are aligned and solid, work from them????
I have got a few days to mull it over................................ :-)) :-)) :-))
Stewart
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Since it is all connected, it is considered "one part".
I would play with the volumes, and see if there might be a way to arrange
the parts to reduce the volume, and then connect them to each other with sprues.
That way they may still get by as "one part". See if that can save some cost. ok2
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I remember fitting the Korts to my build that were non - standard. The set up took me hours but the end result was well worth the effort.
If I could have asked a company to print me a set that I had designed that fitted exactly the way I wanted I would of happily paid £40 for them.
That would have only cost me £23.50 than the set I bought - A bargain when I consider the hours spent fettling the ones I did buy.
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Umi. you are right, a bit of work and I can reduce the cost by nearly £10, pays for the P+P................. :-))
Mark, experience always prevails and yours has pushed me toward ordering this set up in the new year.
Thanks once again for your help.
Have a very Happy Christmas and New Year
Stewart
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Great work.
Just a comment, when having shapeways make up the korts, if you haven't already done so, allow for a bearing sleeve in the kort center for the prop shaft to run in.
Ian
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Ian, the end of the propshafts, should fit snuggly into the centre bearing of the KORT if all my calculations and CAD drawings are correct...........................sitting with all fingers crossed.......................thanks for the pointer though, always good to hear other peoples points of views and ideas/suggestions.
Stewart
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Well, I decided that no matter how long I look at it and how long I decide how to do it I started planking the hull. This is the first time I have done this and I have no idea how to do it so after reading umpteen thousand threads and videos, hey presto, it's not that hard, well so far!!!!!! I am using a combination of Obechi strip and ply to plank it, easy flat bits and bulwarks using ply and the rest Obechi strip, I did find it fairly easy to get these first five strips on, with a bit of feathering along the edges they seem to sit nicely against each other, a few stealers need to be inserted but that shouldn't be to hard. See how it goes and if I get into bother I shall be calling for help................... :-))
Thanks for watching.
Stewart
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I forgot to mention I am using tiny brass pins with aliphatic resin glue to stick them down in case you are wondering why there very few clamps in the shots.............fiddly little buggers!
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I did my planking the same way as you. I watched a ton of YouTube videos and then did it my own way! O0
As long as the end result is good strong smooth and watertight then alls well that ends well. U2
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I am always cutting the ends of the planks to taper so I avoid gaps.
But I still somtimes end up with a short wedge to fill in somewhere.
O0
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Another very attractive build Stewart! CAD drawing frames does seem to be the way to go.
I will keep an eye out for progress.
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Well I have managed to get to the stage of filling, been hard work but it has turned out not bad, even if I say so myself. I shall let the pictures tell the story.
Thanks for watching.
Stewart
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Excellent planking :-))
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Nice hull!
Good work with the planking.
Hama
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Amen :-))
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Thanks for the compliments chaps....... :-))
After a few hours of rough sanding she is smooth enough for the first bout of filler to go on, then more sanding, and more filler and more sanding................................... {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Sanding filling sanding....... Exactly what I'm up to this weekend, I disappear into my garage and come back full of dust. My OH thinks I'm mad........... At least I'm not the only one {-) U2
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Too bloomin' cold to put filler on, its about -1 in my garage at the moment!
Decided to tackle stern end instead, easiest solution I think is to glue blocks of balsa together, then sculpt it to shape then glue it to the deck, then I can tackle the bulwark rails. Not looking forward to that as lots of fiddly bits to make and fit, cold sausage fingers are not ideal............ %%
I did manage to get some more pictures of the Granit so these are going to help with the build and also some of her sister ship Bazalt in dry dock, helpful for Kort set up and stern as she is slightly different from the drawings I have worked from, nowt major thank goodness.
Ta for watching, will post more pics of progress when my fingers thaw out!
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Been a while but have managed to make a bit more progress.
Bow Thruster purchased and installed.
Hull filled in and sanded several times and is now smoother than a baby's bum.
Exit holes for prop shafts cut out.
Fibreglass cloth and finishing resin ordered and delivered.
Lots of shiny bits ordered and delivered, only had one propshaft on stock so waiting for delivery of the second from another supplier.
Bulwarks drawn and ready to go off for laser cutting.
Kort nozzle set up being 3D printed bt Shapeways as we speak.
Now to coat the inside of the hull with resin and then glass the exterior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Managing to keep rolling with this build, albeit slowly.
Update so far, bulwarks made and installed, anchor pockets and guide tubes fitted, hull rubbed down and glassed up with Z-Poxy, first quick rub down and a coat of primer to show any errors in hull (plenty). So back to rubbing down, filling, rubbing down. Once happy with that, shall install prop shafts and kort nozzles, rudders made and will be installed next.
So far coming out better than expected.
Thanks for looking
Stewart
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It's coming on nicely.
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Interesting build, I'll be following this one.
She looks great!!
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Thanks Brian, Josse.
Dropped a bit of a clanger, mixed up some filler to cover up some minor blemishes shown up by the primer, but didn't add enough hardener, so now have to wait ages for it to go off before it will sand easily, it just clogs up straight away, oh well..............on nights for 4 so will hope it has cured by then!!!!!!!!!!
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That hull is really starting to look good. I'm really looking forward to seeing it with some top colours
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After lots of careful scraping with the edge of a Stanley knife blade I have managed to rid the hull of all the filler.......... >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Now have sanded back down to a nice smooth finish.............. :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Have now fitted bump rails along the one side of the hull and now waiting for another delivery of half round profile to finish the other side. Got to fit cap rails to the bulwarks, tidy up the bulwark supports from stray globs of adhesive, mount the rudder bearings, fit the Korts and prop tubes build and fit the deck rails and then can give it some colour.
Some questions, the decks are green, what would pass as an accurate (ish) green for the decks? Is it OK to use Halfords rattle cans? Any prep work needed before spraying on the decks as they are plywood?
Thanks in advance.
Stewart
PS thanks for the kind words chaps, appreciated.
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Hi Stewart when I'm spraying plywood if it's a large area I like to seal it with finishing epoxy resin. It does take some work as I've found that you need to apply two coats and it has to be sanded flat after each coat. The results are really nice though. If however I'm only painting small wooden parts I give them a couple of coats of eze-coat which works well and is water soluble for an easy clean up
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I would like to call on the Mayhem collective to lend some advice please.
While I am at a bit of a go slow on the build I started looking into the electrics and radio stuff.
Electrics I am fine with, all stuff coming from Action Electronics when funds become available, it's the radio side of it that is baffling me and need help with.
So, twin motors for propulsion, rudder, bow thruster, fire monitors, navigation lights, deck lighting, interior lighting and maybe radar motors. Now how can I control all these with a cheapish unit - sub £100. Is it going to be a simple case of say left stick for forward/reverse (propulsion), left stick left/right (bow thruster) right stick for left/right (rudder) and say 5 or 6 simple switches to turn on and off the other ancillaries, if so, which cheap 2.4 unit will do the job for me.
Sorry to ask such a simple question, but the vast amount of equipment out there is mind boggling and so is the price!!!!!! Hence the need for a cheapish, simple unit that can do the job for me with out breaking the bank.
Thanks in advance.
Stewart
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After a good few hours trawling t'interweb, I may have found what I am looking for, anybody had any dealings with these and are they, will they be compatible/usable with the Action Electronics P94 set up as shown in link below?
http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/246827/ (http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/246827/) - Transmitter/receiver
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Billings%20Fairmount%20Alpine%20Dwg%201%20-%20Mick%20Burke.pdf (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Billings%20Fairmount%20Alpine%20Dwg%201%20-%20Mick%20Burke.pdf) - Action Electronic set up
Cheers.
Stewart
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I'm seriously thinking of one of those myself Stew, I didn't see any mention of its receiver, if that has 14 sockets it will do the job fine the switches are simple on/off signal generators for turning things on and off like your lights. One would even control your thrusters as long as you don't mind them being off-full power-off as you blip the switch - you'd have to make sure the esc for the thruster would handle that abuse rather than ramping the power though.
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Just what I'm looking for. :-))
It includes a 14 channel R/X in the 'Ad'
ken
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I would like to call on the Mayhem collective to lend some advice please.
While I am at a bit of a go slow on the build I started looking into the electrics and radio stuff.
Electrics I am fine with, all stuff coming from Action Electronics when funds become available, it's the radio side of it that is baffling me and need help with.
So, twin motors for propulsion, rudder, bow thruster, fire monitors, navigation lights, deck lighting, interior lighting and maybe radar motors. Now how can I control all these with a cheapish unit - sub £100. Is it going to be a simple case of say left stick for forward/reverse (propulsion), left stick left/right (bow thruster) right stick for left/right (rudder) and say 5 or 6 simple switches to turn on and off the other ancillaries, if so, which cheap 2.4 unit will do the job for me.
Sorry to ask such a simple question, but the vast amount of equipment out there is mind boggling and so is the price!!!!!! Hence the need for a cheapish, simple unit that can do the job for me with out breaking the bank.
Thanks in advance.
Stewart
Hi Stewart
That should work fine . Ch 1 to 4 would do your props ,rudder and bow thruster . Th other channels 5 to 14 would work fine for lights or rader etc . You will need to get an electronic switch to plug in to the receiver to switch the circuits .
John
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Hi all, just thought I had better update on progress with my build of Granit. It has been tough as I have no idea as to what I am doing. I did really struggle with the front bulwark and a nightmare with the actual hull as I had not sealed it internally before winter set in and it got damp and started to distort some of the planking!!!!!! I layered up some epoxy on the inside and let it dry and it seems to have pulled it back to shape, near enough, I can still feel some ripples in the hull but its not too bad.
Anyway as you can see I have managed to put some colour on her and she looks good, even though I say it myself.
I have used red oxide rattle can, the finish is rough to the touch, I intend to give it a couple of coats of a satin sealant when I have finished spraying her. Would it be advisable to give it a very light sanding and rub down with tack cloth before sealing it?
Thanks in advance and now good weather is here I should be able to progress a bit more.
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Thats a really nice looking hull!
Hama
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Hi Stu that hull looks really nice :-)) If the paints a bit rough I would give it a light rub with a fine scotch bright pad then tack cloth it before spraying the satin. The pads are far easier to use than paper and far more forgiving too - good luck mate
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Ah, that's what I had read but forgot totally to do......cheers Mark.
Still a bit to do before I get that bit done, the paint don't half show imperfections up!!!!!!!!
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Yep it sure does and sometimes can be a bit disheartening when you have put so much work into something. Take your time Stu fill the imperfections if you have the time, and its all worth it in the end bud :-)) Looking forward to the rest of the build
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Hi folks, bit of an update on the build.
I have got the hull painted and sealed, all electrics/electronics fitted, motors and props all connected and rudders. All looking good, even had her bum wet in bath tub with no leaks.......but as she stands she needs 20lb of ballast to get her down to the water line.......all in all good but slow progress.
Unfortunately I have come across a problem with the electronics. Wired up everything with correct rated wiring, termination all fitted with crimped bootlace ferrules or soldered ends, i did make one error due to being distracted, i had the wrong polarity on the P93, this blew both fuses on the P102 board, no problem i thought, corrected mistake, replaced fuses, switched on and all good. P94 went through its start up so ready to test. I have it set for 100% mix. Tx is FlySky FS-I6S with the 10 channel rx, all hooked up as instructions but could i get it to work correctly......no, it would do weird things? Push stick forward, motors start then one would go into reverse, then jump back to forward. Runs ok if you pull stick back? Push rudder stick over, bogh motors run correctly, push rudder stick other way the motors go opposite direction but one will jump into opposite direction then back again. Very little control on throttle its virtually full throttle all the time! No i thought with the earlier mistake i had damaged the P94, so ordered a new one, fitted that and it is the same! Gave Component shop a call and said it sounds like the Tx is not compatible with the P94.
Has anybody had similar problems either with the P94 or the FlySky...........any recommendations for a Tx that is compatible with the P94.......7 or more channels, i am not made of money and can flog the FlySky on if is not up to the job, it is just so frustrating that something that should be so simple is not and costs an arm and a leg if it goes wrong!
Does anyone know what protocol the P94 reads, this may give a clue to compatability issues.
Thanks in advance.
Stewart
ps, sorry no pics, my pc has died and in middle trying to fix!
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Managed to sort a pic out.
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this blew both fuses on the P102 board
Sorry this should read.........."this blew both fuses on the P92 board".
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Hi Stew
Nice to see your building again mate. Just a couple of thoughts from me.
1. Have you set all of the little switches up correctly on the circuit boards?
2. Are the heat sinks touching each other as this can be very bad apparently
3. What happens if you disconnect one of the motors does the same thing still happen?
4. Have you tried resetting the TX back to its basic settings and then tried that?
5. Is the TX and receiver set on the correct channels?
6. Is there any mixing set up on the TX if so turn it off
I'm sorry I can't be any more help mate
Mark
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Hi Mark, yes gone through all those including several factory resets but still not playing ball. This is so frustrating. Tried it with an old 2ch Futaba T2ER 40Mhz Tx and Rx and works a treat.......so it is either an incompatability problem or set up problem with the FlySky...........my money is on the incompatability issue. Will not know until i can get another transmitter that will work..........any preferences on a Tx/Rx?
Cheers
Stewart
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Yea it sounds like you are right about compatibility {:-{ I use Spektrum but only because I got a very good deal on a DX10. Otherwise I don't know what I would use. Having said that I'm glad that I went that route as it does everything and more that you can imagine. I hope you get it sorted :-))
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It sounds like it could be the voltage on the signal output from the Rx. Older sets would give use 4.8V internally and give a 4.8V signal. New sets with microprocessors use 3.3V internal logic and can give a 3.3V signal output. This can cause problems for servos and add on boards which need a 4.8V signal and a 3.3V signal is not enough for reliable working.Use receivers which have 4.8V signals or look for signal amplifiers which fit in line between the Rx and servo/board.
Jim
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Hi Jim, checking the specs it looks like a 4.8v to 6v system, low voltage alarm kicks in at 4.2v, so i don't think that's the cause but thanks for the input, much appreciated.
Stewart
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Ok, see if we can make some headway. There are 2 sets of output modes on the FlySky......PWM and PMM and another set for i-bus and s-bus. Can i presume that the P94 needs PWM?
Because i am beginning to tear whats left of my hair out. My only other alternative is to get another Tx/Rx set, but which one.....minimum 7ch and at the £200 mark.
I really need some help guys, thanks in advance..... <:( <:( <:(
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Hello!
I'm not the one to sort this out, but to offer some comfort. If nothing else work, buy some ordinary esc and use the mixing on your tx. Then you can also have the option of turning on/off and tune your mixing as you sail. The Action stuff would bring you some money if you sell them, many people use them. As I said, only if nothing else works.
Good luck!
Hama
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I do know that the action mixer requires a very precise neutral set point.
I did some testing for DM with a Spektrum Dx5 as it wouldn't play at all.
Try just the mixer on a known set eg Futaba.
If the mixer operates correctly it would seem to be incompatible with the radio set.
You could always drive as tank steering which would remove the mixer but not incur any more cost with ecs's.
Bob
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Hi Bob, thanks for the reply.
Tried with an old 2ch Futaba crystal set and works fine in 100% mix mode.
Tried FlySky in tank mode and is better, not correct though, soon as you add throttle motor bangs in, also if just using one stick opposite motor spins up for a second.
Think the problem is the FlySky unit, the throttle channel zero position is full down, in the middle it is 50%, hence why motors bang straight in. Tried all sorts to get it into a neutral position but no joy, nothing on you tube either.....this is one purely for the fly boys methinks........oh well better spend some more money.......the Planet T7 looks good value......any reason not to get one?
Regards
Stewart
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the Planet T7 looks good value......any reason not to get one?
Regards
Stewart
I have never had problems with Action mixers on either Planet or Futaba F14.
Planets could be hard to get now as they no longer make them
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Hi Bob, thanks for the reply.
Tried with an old 2ch Futaba crystal set and works fine in 100% mix mode.
Tried FlySky in tank mode and is better, not correct though, soon as you add throttle motor bangs in, also if just using one stick opposite motor spins up for a second.
Think the problem is the FlySky unit, the throttle channel zero position is full down, in the middle it is 50%, hence why motors bang straight in. Tried all sorts to get it into a neutral position but no joy, nothing on you tube either.....this is one purely for the fly boys methinks........oh well better spend some more money.......the Planet T7 looks good value......any reason not to get one?
Regards
Stewart
Now that rings a bell with me!!! My spektrum was exactly the same it was set up for aircraft with the throttle fully down. To correct this I spent ages in the settings and eventually worked out how to set the throttle neutral in the middle position with 50% forward and 50% aft with up and down movements Its a bit late now but tomorrow I'll have a look which settings I altered and let you know - maybe it will help
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Appreciate that Mark.......... :-))
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Ok its not that late and I've had a look %%
On my transmitter the neutral point and the percentage throw each way of the stick is set in the menu of "Analogue switch set up"
Now it takes some playing around with as you are basically changing percentage movements. I can't remember exactly how I did it but I think that I moved the stick to the centre and set that at zero.
I then moved the stick fully forward and set that to +100% and then set the reverse to -100%. So when the stick was in the middle the display always says zero, it took a little while but I got there in the end. I really hope that this helps?
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Thanks for that Mark, but still a no go.
Shame this doesn't have the facility in the menu for neutral point adjustment............goes to show manafacturers are leaving model boaters out of it......shame because the FlySky does look and feel good.
Onwards and upwards, waiting to hear from SHG models if they have a Planet T7 on stock, fingers crossed.
Stewart
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i wouldn't bother about where the transmitter thinks the zero point is as the receiver doesn't know anything about it.All the receiver is looking at is a pulse length between 1000 micro seconds and 2000 micro seconds, it takes a length of 1500 microseconds as the center point. It doesn't matter if the Tx calls that 0 or 50 to the Rx it is center. The Tx may code the pulse lengths in different ways but the receiver will decode this into a set of pulses and send the correct pulse to each servo or esc. What the esc does when it receives the pulse can vary, they may look for different pilse lengths as off depending on whether they are forward only or both forward and reverse. You may need to set the neutral point and full power on the esc to get correct control.
Jim
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Jim, I understand what you are saying, but the P94 has no way of adjusting that.
What is the P94 looking for? PWM, PMM, I-BUS, S-BUS.........Lord knows, hence the problem of newer Tx not being compatible.
I really want this set up to work, i have spent too much to give in now and go with 2 seperate ESC's and try and mix it via the Tx, that's why i went with the P94 in the first place. A recommended list of Tx sets should be put up to avoid further issues that cost time and money.
Stewart
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Well, I have now got the electronics working as they should.
Sent both P94's off to DM to check over and was duly returned giving them the all clear (thanks David for quality service).
Wired unit back in place and switched on but still playing silly buggers, so it had to be the Tx..... So bit the bullet and bought a new Hitec optic 6 sport, plugged it in and bingo, we are in business, just need to take the ratchet off the throttle gimbal and away we go.
I can now start to make some headway on the build now as I didn't want to fix any detail work onto the hull until I had finished the electronics.
Once again thanks to you all for your help and guidance.
Stewart
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Time for some pictures of progress so far, slow but sure!
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Very nice build!!! Just love the perfect wiring and arrangement of the electric components. :-))
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Making a bit more headway on the build.
Deck frame built and skin going on ready for laying planks on.
Wheelhouse under construction, I have no idea if this is going to work out or not as there is a heavy mast structure got to go on top so just winging it as I go!
Next job is laying planks on deck skin.
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Can someone explain what colour these lights should be, what are the light sequences and why are one smaller than the other?
Many thanks in advance.
Stewart
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https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?787277
Post #8 by CG Bob has some nice illustrations of the different light configurations depending on the tow.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2914656-Granit#post37823023
My Granit build. Still cutting steel but ran into my first problem.
My two prop shafts are not on the same angle exiting the frames. I'm not sure which one is right is either.........
This would be the third tug made from steel.
Mark
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Thanks for that Mark.
Going to watch your steel build with great interest.
Stewart
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Ok, all of the woodwork done, now to sand it smooth, stain with some teabags, seal it then paint the edges.
I may have made an error in not having the normal ledge to seal the deck to the hull. So in my deck is a rebate, this has a neoprene cord fitted into it, this will seal against the opening with a smear of vaseline to aid the seal. The deck sits on 8 blocks with a strong magnet glued into them, the deck will have 8 steel tabs glued in place to the corresponding magnet. To remove the deck just lift the towing guide that will be fitted in the centre of the deck.
More pics to follow.
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Stained, sealed and painted, metal tabs in place and fits a treat. If its waterproof is another matter!
Now fit bollards and deck rails then make tow guide.
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The deck looks fantastic!
:-))
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A small update on Granit.
I tried and tried to make these deck rails but they always ended up in the bin, so turned to Shapeways and AutoCad and had these printed up, don't look bad, better than my attempts.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/05/20171205_205649.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/05/20171205_205643.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/05/20171205_205627.jpg)
Stewart
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I have been thinking about the rails since I started and had no idea how I was going to make them. Your rails look great.
Good idea.
Mark
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Started on the cable guide as my brass supply has arrived, turned out better than I expected.
How are these attached to the deck?
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I soldered a washer on the bottom of the tubes and dropped a screw down the tube. I stuff a piece of black rubber in the top of the tube to seal it.
Here's a link to the Gogor build https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=29896423&postcount=63
See the third picture on post 63
Another option would be to glue or solder a nut in the bottom of the tube so you could feed the screw from under the deck
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great model by the way, i am also building a AHTS Granit 1/200 scale, made by shapeways its made by 3D printing
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last two, sorry the pics went weird for some reason they rotate while uploading
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Got a bit more done on the cable guide assy.
Trammel assy built up.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/17/20171217_164451.jpg)
It still moves along the rails........ :}
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/17/20171217_164513.jpg)
And soldered onto the main frame.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2017/12/17/20171217_170919.jpg)
Still a lot more to do until it is finished. I dread putting the next part on in case something unsolders itself and falls off........ %%
Stewart
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So Stewart says ..."dread putting the next part on in case something unsolders itself" .....heatsinks......an old cotton handkerchief.....soak with water and fold around the closest pre soldered joints that you need to protect from additional heat
Engineers clamps fastened close by the joint to be soldered are also a good heat sink [the Bakers flux will soon destroy the blued finish >>:-( ....but are very useful for the task at hand]
Derek
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Thanks for that Derek.............heatsinks it is.
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Slow progress due to some festivities.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/03/20180103_183758.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/03/20180103_183813.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/03/20180103_183822.jpg)
What is the best way to clean this up ready for painting?
Cheers
Stewart
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A little bit more progress, but slow as icicles forming on my nose in the workshop.
Moved onto the front mast, marked and drilled hole for mast socket, soldered 3mm and 4mm tube to make the mast. Small length of 5mm tube for the socket, flange and side ribs soldered in place. Drilling a hole from access area under the wheelhouse to the base to run lighting cables. Anywho, was really strugging to check if the mast was vertical as the forcastle has a 2° slope. So levelled up the boat so dead flat both ways, then dropped a plumb bob fron ceiling, got it positioned dead centre of the mast hole, then raised it up until it was the height of the mast to. No it a simple matter of setting the socket with epoxy and should have a perfectly vertical mast.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/06/20180106_115630.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/06/20180106_120121.jpg)
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart what a simple idea - I think I'll steal that one from you for future use :-)) Nice to see the build coming on.
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Some serious brasswork you've done there! Very nice :-))
Hama
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"What is the best way to clean this up ready for painting?"
Stewart.......a very light grit/powder/plastic bead blast is probably the best in providing a good keying surface for the primer........ Derek
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Hi folks, bit of an update on the build.
Tx is FlySky FS-I6S with the 10 channel rx, all hooked up as instructions but could i get it to work correctly......no, it would do weird things? d costs an arm and a leg if it goes wrong!
Just a thought ....... Are you are using DRY (1.5V) batteries and NOT rechargeable (1.2V) batteries? Tx is only 4 cell battery box and no recharge plug
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"What is the best way to clean this up ready for painting?"
Stewart.......a very light grit/powder/plastic bead blast is probably the best in providing a good keying surface for the primer........ Derek
I've always used green scotch bright pads to get the worst off and then dropped down to the finer grey coloured ones. They tend to fit around everything and make the job nice and easy. I then degrease with either IPA or panel wipe for bare brass - either one works just as well as the other. Oh and buy a decent branded etch primer as I have found that the cheaper ones are rubbish.
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Thanks for the info guys, always appreciated..... :-))
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Can someone explain what colour these lights should be, what are the light sequences and why are one smaller than the other?
Many thanks in advance.
Stewart
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I am really struggling to understand these bloomin' lights.......I have read the nav light rules and regs but making worse for me......DOH.
I cannot see anything with 2 masts? I am guessing the forecastl mast has red on top anc the lower 3 are white (360°)? Why 2 sets of each? (Spares)? Main mast, not got a scooby doo. At the back of the wheelhouse another 2 sets of 2? Yellow and white? A complete mystery. I am wanting to order the lamps and bulbs or coloured lamps if I knew which colours to get.
Appreciate your help guys.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/07/MAST-LIGHTS.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/07/MAST-LIGHT-2.jpg)
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Yes! There is one spare to every light in case of a blown bulb. White and yellow stern lights are for towing. Top lights with 360degr visabillity are anchor lights. The ones on the side mast are red-white-red used for restricted maneuvrabillity.
Someone else will surely add some more facts for you.
All the best!
Hama
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Thanks Hama, good info....... :-))
Would it be OTT to have the lights in pairs like the real boat? Maybe one working, the other a dummy?
Cheers guys.
Stewart
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Got a bit more done on the mast. 1st pic shows the outrigger posts glued into the bulwarks with a 2mm pin sticking out to accept the outrigger legs and a piece of wire coming out of the base to pull cables through for mast lights. 2nd shows the basic mast in place. Still a lot to do but it's moving in the right direction.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/10/20180110_145212.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/10/20180110_145149.jpg)
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Well, while waiting for my lamps from shapeways I decided to have a tidy up. My electronics bench had become a bit of a dumping ground. All sorted now with a new back panel along with new storage bins and boxes. Most components have a new home with a laminate to locate them, a nightmare sorting several years of neglect. Now to unearth Granit and Little Lizzie from under all the junk.........oh happy days. Looking forward to sorting the other end of the workshop as I would like to have seperate benches for metal/general work and woodworking.
Soon as lamps arrive I can get on with the front mast.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/20/20180120_160207.jpg)
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Hama was mostly correct with the lamps and sequences. The yellow over white at the stern for towing. 3 all round whites at the mast for towing as well as white over red over white, which is for restricted manouvering, although from what I can see from internet searches, the 3 whites seem to be neglected and replaced entirely by the white over red over white configuration. Try and make sense of it all........
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/rule24.htm
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About as clear as mud Brian......lol
Thanks for the link, will digest and see what comes of it.......... :-))
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Top job - there's nothing better than a well organised work bench ok2
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Your making a great job of her Stewart, just spent the last hour reading through your build. :-))
Brian
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Thanks guys, appreciate your time...... :-))
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Hi Stewart,
Just catching up with your great build.
Regards nav lights, there is great iPhone app from Imray ( the chart people) named "Marine Rules & Signals" that has graphics that show all the various configurations within "Lights & Shapes section that should provide the answers. Search "Imray" in the app store to locate it. Can't remember if it's free or not, either way I have it & I would not of payed a lot.
Cheers
Ian
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Thanks Ian, not got an I phone, but found an app that has nav light rules on it.......... :-))
Just had notification that my mast lamps have been completed and are on their way over to me, so should be here mid week.
I have done 2 sizes, both take a standard 3mm LED. One is 5mm dia the other is 6mm dia. The idea is to fit coloured LED in, paint the top and bottom black (mask off area if needs to be less than 360 deg view). One leg (neg) to be soldered directly to the mast, the other will be cut very short with a length of KYNAR wire soldered to that and sealed off, threaded through very small hole in the mast and down to a master resistor board (yet to be made). Hope to get some pics as it progresses.
If it fails, I shall just use the standard 3mm LED's with no cover.....I am hoping it looks life like, if not it only cost a tad over a tenner for them.
Fingers crossed.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/21/mast-lamps.jpg)
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Well my lamps arrived from shapeways and bit undecided about the sizes. Going to paint the cap and base then put some electrons down it and see how they look.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/24/20180124_112349.jpg)
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Waiting patiently whilst the electrons line up and slide down the wires. :o
Don't forget electrons like the outside of the wire ;)
Ned
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Wait no more Ned...... :D
Put a bit of matt black on (not happy with Revell paint).
Tried with a standard 3mm coloured LED but was too faint, so popped in a super bright clear lens LED and happy. Just need to redo the matt black and then can get on.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/24/20180124_184547.jpg)
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Put sorting the LED's out on hold for the moment as waiting for some brass strip and some 4mm clear tube.
So made an effort to get the towing guide finished. Well it is all done bar painting, needs a good clean and some etch primer on it then can put top coat of orange on.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/01/30/20180130_173455.jpg)
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Fine bit of brass work Stew. :-))
Seems a pity to paint it.
Ned
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Thanks Ned..........if you look close enough it does need painting........... :embarrassed:
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Slow progress at moment as it is too damn cold to do more than 15 to 20 minutes in workshop!
Added light platforms and whip antenna head onto the mast. Placed my 3D printed lamp so can see for scale, still waiting for some 4mm clear styrene tube so I can make some smaller ones, mainly to see the difference. Going to solder negative leg to platform and thread 0.4mm cable from positive leg in through small hole and down the inside of the mast, these will then be threaded under the forcastle deck and into lighting control box, which has yet to be designed and made!
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/02/06/20180206_134308.jpg)
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A little more done despite the cold.
Sprayed etch primer on cable guide.
Finished soldering the mast, damn fiddly those rungs! And a couple of coats of etch primer. Once dry can fit LED's and wires.
Thanks for watching.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/02/09/20180209_132105.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/02/09/20180209_131956.jpg)
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Very nice work Stewart :-))
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Well, after many months and great loss of hair and a near moment of giving up, I finally managed to complete the front mast, with working lights. These will be controlled by my Tx via an onboard Picaxe chip through a number of darlington chips so hopefully I can sequence all the lights to signal differing operating conditions set out in the maritime rules.........and maybe some funky light show.......don't quite know yet on that last one, see how the rest of the build goes now.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/05/04/20180504_133617.jpg)
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Nice! :-))
Hama
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Very nice and super bright too :-))
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Cheers guys.
They are a bit too bright at the moment, they are running at 20ma, need a 1K resistor soldering to each cable next to bring them down to 10ma output which will be bright enough....... :-))