Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: Charlie on November 18, 2015, 04:56:20 pm
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There have been a few interesting new SAR Boats launched recently. This Pantocarene designed 17m All Weather Lifeboat for the French SNSM has just undergone self righting tests.
French new website with more info, pics and video here:
http://www.bateaux.com/article/21812/snsm-presente-nouveau-canot-temps-ctt (http://www.bateaux.com/article/21812/snsm-presente-nouveau-canot-temps-ctt)
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The running gear looks a bit exposed.
Ned
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The hull is an interesting design, the bow is fascinating, I wonder if that is for wave breaking plus stopping the bow lifting and slamming.
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We have a couple of them as Pilot boats on Port Phillip and the hull shape helps when they go through the Heads.
Although Akuna 4 is currently at Port Hedland presumably helping out.
Video:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL3jp1UhYGQ
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As a potential crewman I'd be worried that it carries advertising on the upturned hull :}
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Very observant.
Good point
ken
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What i find quite interesting is the cost of this boat, compared to the RNLI equivalent. It is reported that she cost 1.4 million Euros. The RNLI website shows the cost of a 16m Tamar as £2.7m which converts into approx 3.8 million Euros. So how come the French can build their boat for 1/3rd of the cost compared to the RNLI?
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What i find quite interesting is the cost of this boat, compared to the RNLI equivalent. It is reported that she cost 1.4 million Euros. The RNLI website shows the cost of a 16m Tamar as £2.7m which converts into approx 3.8 million Euros. So how come the French can build their boat for 1/3rd of the cost compared to the RNLI?
Possibly because like a lot of stuff in France they can somehow circumvent EU laws and give huge state subsidies to certain companies! Citroen/Renault come to mind, as does BrittanyFerries.
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The european SAR boats tend to be built of steel or aluminium and their fabrication costs are probably significantly lower than our RNLI craft.
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They are probably commercial hulls shared with
Pilot boats etc., not bespoke hulls like the RNLI.
Ned
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Here are a few more photos showing that distinctive bow. Would love to have a go at building a model of her:)
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:-))
At precise 3 pm Friday, November 13th, 2015, in the fishing port of Roscoff, the prototype of the Boat Any Time new generation builds for the SNSM by SIBIRIL Technologies on plans Pantocarène, took successfully its test of reversal! Live the experience of the inside!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcThjtwwS-Q
Document SNSM
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Another new boat is this 22m Water Jet powered beast, the "RS Idar Ulstein" just launched this month from the Swedeship yard, and built for the Norweigan Sea Rescue Service.
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Thanks for sharing. THat boat is a fast design.
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Possibly because like a lot of stuff in France they can somehow circumvent EU laws and give huge state subsidies to certain companies! Citroen/Renault come to mind, as does Brittany Ferries.
It's quite defamatory to say that !
[size=0px]They are probably commercial hulls shared with [/size][/size][size=0px]Pilot boats etc., not bespoke hulls like the RNLI.[/size]
This is one of the the main reason !
Xtian29
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Possibly because like a lot of stuff in France they can somehow circumvent EU laws and give huge state subsidies to certain companies! Citroen/Renault come to mind, as does BrittanyFerries.
Tut tut, nothing like that happens in the UK of course ? %) %) %)
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The more sophisticated and larger norwegian SAR boat (58 tons 22 meters 38 knots) is exactly at the same price 3.8 millions Euros as the smaller RNLI Tamar ( 31 tons 16 meters 25 knots)
Maybe you are not asking the right question ?
Xtian
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The British Isles has a huge coastline and a large part of it is very treacherous and many different designs are required to suit. The British have evolved designs according to their own philosophy based on a lot of experience of working craft inshore and offshore. The RNLI rely on laminated sandwich type hulls which are heavier than alternatives fabricated using alloy. Sea conditions may often prevent speeds in excess of 25knots and this may explain the choice of this speed as a maximum for our RNLI boats.
It is very interesting to see other european designs and how they meet the SAR role
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I fully agree with you Perkasaman. Then the french don't use aloy for large SAR boat. The FRP composite hull choice here is for the same reason as in UK. We also have different designs for differents places and differents kind of sea.
Just for your maritime knowledge, in France green hull are Canot Tout Temps (all weather life-boat) (Boat Any Time with google translate {-) ) Blue hulls are "vedettes de sauvetage" not inshore - still for high sea but not for all weather, smaller size, smaller crew, less equipped but most of the time faster. Some are in alloy
So this one is a all weather lifeboat, only few will be built to serve in areas where the sea is really hard and where there is a need of taking aboard a full fishing boat or cargo vessel crew
I was comparing the price with the Norwegian boat as answer to gossip style sladering talking - Out of this easy way of thinking, just compare same size/speed/engine/equipment and even same material (FPR composite) for pilot patrol or life-boat : the price of the french boats is within the average and the price of the RNLI is quite high.
Then for the 3.8 million € most of the time you have a 20 meters boat
About the french shape, this kind of bow extend the waterligne length and by this way the capability of high speed when calm sea. With choppy sea it prevent slamming and it's really effective, you can delay to reduce speed. Then with rough sea this bow change nothing - good nor bad.
This shape named Pantocarène for french and Orca for export is working well since almost 20 years mainly on pilot and SAR boats.
Xtian
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More details about the Norweigan boat here:
http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=10069:new-norwegian-rescue-vessel-named-for-idar-ulstein&Itemid=231 (http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=10069:new-norwegian-rescue-vessel-named-for-idar-ulstein&Itemid=231)
Interestingly, she is operated by a crew of only 3, which is much lower than a UK or French boat would have.
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Yes the norwegian crew is only 3. They are professional seamen living aboard for duty time and are not only waiting but sometime "on patrol" going and staying in different harbor. Then this crew is completed as required with medical staff, fire fighter or volunteers. The same system as been "copied" by Spanish and some other in the world.
Xtian
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Many thanks Xtian for all the information and explanations. Norway and Netherlands have a lot of oil/gas installations just offshore and I can see their need for a larger and faster SAR boat where helicopter rapid evacuation is restricted to a relatively small number of those who can be quickly rescued by air.
Je suis Diesel ;)
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Je suis Diesel
I suppose you are talking about the dog <:(
About the Norwegian way to manage the Search And Rescue boat with crew on duty living aboard and no land station. In the 90's the US Coast Guard made an evaluation of this system first in the Chesapeake area. I visited myself the boat 502001 in Maryland. The aim was to avoid the cost of a land station, with buildings, quay, mow the lawn ... Then the experiment was named NORCREW for Norwegian Crew
They swap this experiment from Search And Rescue to ATN (Aid To Navigation) with 55 foot boats, then ... No more NORCREW, may I say the evaluation was not satisfactory for Americans.
Xtian
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A Malinois is our family dog :o She is now 15 years old. They are a breed which don't make an easy family pet.
Can you post a picture of the large 22metre Norwegian SAR boat. I am sure many would like to see it. I hope you are enjoying your retirement.
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I don't have my own pictures of a 22 meters Norwegian SAR boat. In the 90's I was aboard of a 50 foot NORCREW (US Coast Guard)
She's that one
(http://nsa38.casimages.com/img/2015/11/25/151125035802360246.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/i/151125035802360246.jpg.html)
I better understand your message about Diesel, what's the name of yours ?
Xtian
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She is called Sophie. She should have been a police dog. We did'nt realise she was a Malinois and thought she was some sort of cross bred German Shepherd. We got her from a dog rescue organisation when she was a year old.
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A new Lifeboat capable of reaching a top speed of 60 knots has been unveiled by famous Racing Boat designer, Fabio Buzzi. Full details here:
http://www.maritimejournal.com/news101/vessel-build-and-maintenance/ship-and-boatbuilding/the-fastest-lifeboat-in-the-world
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A new Lifeboat capable of reaching a top speed of 60 knots has been unveiled by famous Racing Boat designer, Fabio Buzzi. Full details here:
http://www.maritimejournal.com/news101/vessel-build-and-maintenance/ship-and-boatbuilding/the-fastest-lifeboat-in-the-world
I wonder what it would be like in a force 12 at 60 knots?
Jim.
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I wonder what it would be like in a force 12 at 60 knots?
Jim.
If it could do 60knots in a force twelve the vessel and her crew would be damaged beyond repair.
Ned
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Impressive ! The checkout at the gas station should also be impressive
Oppose speed and sea state capability does not really make sense - a high speed boat can always reduce the speed in choppy sea where slow boat will not accelerate if flat sea !
Xtian
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Agreed,
but the design of a hull for high speed
does not always make it sea kindly in
extreme weather when most rescues are
made.
There must always be a design that allows
a decent speed as opposed to the weather.
Ned
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Yep and it's always a statistical issue, by the way I'm not sure that most SAR cases are made during extrem weather.
Xtian
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If it could do 60knots in a force twelve the vessel and her crew would be damaged beyond repair.
Ned
that is what I was meaning ned in a tongue in cheek way.........speed is no good if one cannot use it.
I think that the RNLI have reached their best optimum speed for their boats in all weathers with what they have, and very seldom would a speed of 60 knots ever come into place.
Jim.
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This is taken from the article: "When we analysed rescues we found that around 90% of them occurred in fine and moderate conditions where high speed could be a great benefit."
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This SAR60 lifeboat is a very high specification design which has all the features for inshore and offshore rescues. 8)
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The Berthon Boat Company, who built the Shannon Class for the RNLI, have announced their own 14m SAR Boat design.
http://www.berthon.co.uk/commercial/berthon-14m-search-and-rescue-vessel/ (http://www.berthon.co.uk/commercial/berthon-14m-search-and-rescue-vessel/)
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Very Nice :-))
A much more sustainable speed of 32Knots :-))
Thanks for the link Charlie.
Ned
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Sorry, Berthon, but in my humble opinion, not a very exciting or aesthetically pleasing boat to look at.
Not a patch on the RNLI Shannon for looks, in my mind.
I suppose others will argue to the contrary, but just my views.
Mind you, having said that, if I were bobbin in the oggin I wouldn't care a jot if the SAR was shaped like a barrel as long as she and her crew saved me from eternal damnation for a year or two more.
Jim.
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Agreed Jim :-))
Next time I'm in need of rescuing I shall radio the Coastguard
that if a Shannon is not available I will swim ashore %)
Ned
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Will be interesting to see if Berthon's do get any orders for these, since most countries SAR organistions like to design their own boats. I guess it will depend largely on the costs. I didn't see any mention of the construction material, but if it is built from FRP like the Shannon, then the initial cost of the moulds is going to be pretty substantial.
The designer also has a website with some other designs, which is worth a look.
http://www.pemarinedesign.com/#!designs/kk1ug
Charlie
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Peter Eyre, Designer of the Berton 14m SAR vessel also designed the Shannon...
ok2
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An
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgecaSz1xN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgecaSz1xN8)
https://sauvetage-yverdon.ch/galerie/picture.php?/77 (https://sauvetage-yverdon.ch/galerie/picture.php?/77)
https://sauvetage-yverdon.ch/nouvelle_unite.php (https://sauvetage-yverdon.ch/nouvelle_unite.php)
Another new SAR Boat, this one is stationed on Lake Neuchatel in Switzerland.
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What are these?....the larger FWD blades appear as an inboard turning pair.....but what are the AFT outboard turning smaller blade sets?.......counter rotating?................. %)
Derek
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Volvo duo prop out drives
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Thanks spongie :-))..... I had not heard of their Duoprop drive system..... Derek
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjdnIjB-6jNAhXi4KYKHaj_DSUQFgguMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.volvopenta.com%2Fvolvopenta%2Fna%2Fen-us%2Fmarine_leisure_engines%2Fdrives%2Fdps_duoprop%2FPages%2Fdps%2520_duoprop.aspx&usg=AFQjCNHszNBoS6VkF5Y7q9Q0TFBgqt-IEA
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Swiss SAR have taken delivery of this very nice looking Parker Wheelhouse RIB for use on Lake Zurich. Powered by twin 300 HP 4-stroke Outboards.
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Now that would make a fine model,if a drive system could be made to look like the outboards.
Ned
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Clyde model boats sell a outboard .
David
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I wonder what it would be like in a force 12 at 60 knots?
Jim.
A buckin bronco come to mind. Wouldn't have time to think about being seasick.. All spent trying to stay alive. >>:-(
Declan
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This is the 'RS Einar Staff' - the latest addition to the fleet of the Norwegian SAR Service. Can't find too many details about her, except that the top speed is 45 knots, and she is the first of 10 similar boats to be built. She certainly looks the business!
Manufacturers Website:
http://hydrolift.com/the-first-out-of-ten-rescue-vessels/
Youtube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3l2YxJAPFA
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6 new Damen SAR 1906 boats are going to be built in Turkey, for the Turkish Coastguard.
http://www.damen.com/en/news/2016/11/six_search_and_rescue_boats_from_damen_shipyards_antalya
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Over in Canada, they have started building a 19m version of the RNLI's Severn Class, for use by the Canadian Coastguard.
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Ahhhhhh, they're finally in build!
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Hull and Wheelhouse now joined :-)
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Interesting that they've welded up the windows again...
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Latest photo :-)
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WOW!!! That would make one heck of a beautiful model build...........are plans available.
Jim.
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Hi Jim,
There is a General Arrangement drawing on the designer's website here:
http://ral.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/SAR30000R4-General-Arrangement.png
But would be tricky to build a model from that, without some lines or sections.
Charlie
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just been studying that GA, and it looks to me as though the section between the two sets of midships bitts has been lengthened rather than anywhere else, either bow or stern, so someone with good knowledge of laying up grp could mould a section of straight midships from an existing Severn kit and splice it in.
the superstructure could be made from those plans I reckon by a good model maker.....I have a friend!!!............anyone have a spare 1;12 Severn hull to borrow, lol.
Jim.
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First of the Canadian Coast Guard Severn Class Lifeboats is afloat. Looks like it sits rather lower in the water than expected, possibly :o
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They are professional seamen
Xtian
I think that is a little defamatory a statement itself Xtian, as you speak of defamatory statements.
As our own RNLI lifeboat crews, although volunteers, are probably trained professionally to as high a level and standard as any full time SAR crew in the world, if not better in some cases, and it matters not a jot as to the professionalism of those brave crews from what ever country they come from whether the crew is full time OR volunteer.
They all deserve our praise and support.
by the way, those French boats are commonly nicknamed "beak boats" because the bow configuration looks like a parrot's beak..........I quite like the name, and love the boats.
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Neil,
remember that he is a foreign national not typing in his first language. I don't think he's meant any offence
I think what he means is they are professional seaman as in full time employed crew and the vessel as he states is always on the move between port to port on standby.
Then also... remember he said that 2 years ago :} :embarrassed: {-) %%
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The 2nd and 3rd SNSM vessels have been delivered. What a beautiful looking ship ;)
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I notice subtle differences between them.
Different radars, stainless steel plate on thebow of one etc
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Another interesting new SNSM design has just been launched. This time it is an 11.6m Aluminium boat, powered by Stern Drives, with a top speed of 30 kts.
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This will be pretty cool if it gets built - the Safehaven Marine XSV 17M Very High Speed SAR Boat!
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Next up is the C.868 SAR, which has been built by the Cantiere Navale Vittoria Shipyard in Italy, for the Croatian Ministry of Maritime Affairs. 14m long, powered by Volvo IPS Drives, with a top speed of 39 knots. The link below takes you to the manufacturer's website, which includes a video of the self-righting trials.
https://www.vittoria.biz/military-paramilitary/c-868-sar/?lang=en
It's always interesting to see how different countries create their own designs.
Charlie
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The latest Canadian Coastguard Lifeboat will be named "Pennant Bay"
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is that the all aluminium stretched Severn..............looks really nice............the bizz........wonder how long it'll be before one of those is modelled.....Adrian G..........have you a Severn and a middle bit please, lol.
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YEP..............SHOULD have looked back at the thread.........that really would make a lovely model. Are there any plans for it yet, Charlie.............would like a bash at that rascal.