Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Brian60 on June 03, 2016, 08:23:53 am
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My next build has been in the planning stages for 6 months now and to all those who have answered what may have seemed stupid question in that time, I thank you - there will be more!
So the Stril Barents, she was launched in February 2015 from the Vard Aukra yards, with the designation of 1-06. Designated a multi role vessel she is a platform supply vessel with fire fighting capabilities, a rescue vessel, able to support subsea operations and towing.
She carries two fast rescue ribs in hangars port and starboard. Has a daughterboat launched from a hanger in the stern also at the starboard stern is another hangar having a ROV for subsea work.
Propulsion is supplied by two main drives, two tunnel thrusters at the stern, two tunnel thrusters at the bow and one retractable azimuth thruster at the bow, all these can be controlled via a dynamic positioning system to hold the ship on station to within a metre.
I hope (hope is a big word!) to have all the above operational on my build, to that end it will contain a lot of electronics that along with all the other systems need to be designed as I go, so this is not going to be a quick build.
I'll start with two photo's of the actual boat a a short video to show some of those systems working....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFx3g47y94&feature=youtu.be
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So state of play so far. I began by making a spine.... the reason I call it a spine and not a keel is obvious really. I did this for two purposes, first was at 1:72 I still wasn't sure if this was going to fit in with my self imposed size restrictions, as it happens it is only 4 inches longer than my existing anchor handler. Secondly as this was going to be a plug to pull a grp mould from, there was no reason to get really involved with ribs etc that would be destroyed afterwards.
The next set of photo's will show why however I added some decks.....
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I was going for a quick build for this plug and didn't want to waste too much in the way of materials. to this end the decks may be in place but they are held with hot glue which I can cut with a dremel afterwards and save some of the plywood for other projects.
The voids were filled with open cell builders expanding foam. Then carved to shape, the photo's show it in both the rough and also the 1st carving/sanding to shape, I've used 50 grit paper on a power sander.
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Once I have the basic shape sorted, I will go over again with hand sanding and then cover in plaster of paris, then sand again, seal and paint. Then it will be on to waxing and the 1st layup of grp.
I have because of the shape moulded in the whole of the A deck and B deck at the bow, rather than build these up afterwards once the hull is pulled from the mould, I have also built in the hanger opening at the stern due to it having rounded sides, this would be difficult to accomplish on the finished piece. This of course will require a multi part mould, not just two halves! I am thinking at the moment it will be made in 5 sections.
The last couple of photo's show some lovely brushless motors. I have been collecting parts for since the new year so I building up quite a stock for this ship. These motors arrived earlier this week from Hobbyking. They will provide the propulsion for the tunnel thrusters and azimuth drive.
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Crikey - you certainly don't hang about do you Brian?
I'm liking the way you're going about the plug - rather clever really. :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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Looking forward to follow this build, great start!
Hama
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Going to be an interesting build Brian, look forward to more progress.
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Have you begun the thread again Brian? I ask because I remember watching the video and commenting on the clever methods of retreiving boats, and I am sure there were more replies than 5. Perhaps the Moderators had a clear out of gibberish!
I look forward to your build log especialy alll the boat handling equipment :-))
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Have you begun the thread again Brian? I ask because I remember watching the video and commenting on the clever methods of retreiving boats, and I am sure there were more replies than 5. Perhaps the Moderators had a clear out of gibberish!
I look forward to your build log especialy alll the boat handling equipment :-))
No Ian its a seperate entity. The first one was in chit chat to show everyone what I was contemplating building, after all my queries on various subjects members were asking what all the questions were over.
This is the actual build log for people to follow.
Crikey - you certainly don't hang about do you Brian?
I'm liking the way you're going about the plug - rather clever really. :-)
Regards,
Ray.
Like all things Ray, I thought I'd had a brainwave on building the plug like this. But earlier this week I saw something quite similar on a german website!
Going to be an interesting build Brian, look forward to more progress.
I'm looking forward to the actual build up mate, I really hate all the prep work of plugs/ moulds etc etc, but they have to be done. Keep looking in for more.
Looking forward to follow this build, great start!
Hama
Its going to be a long one Hama, I hope you don't lose interest before its finished :embarrassed:
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This is the actual build log for people to follow.
I shall sit and wait patiently.
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Well not a lot happening over the last couple of weeks, except for sanding.
I've sanded, filled, sanded, filled, primed, sanded, primed etc etc since the last post. Now the plug is finished and just needs waxing before grp begins. As I am still waiting for the resin being delivered from Majorca, and the matt coming over from the UK with my sister in law, work stops again.
I am still waiting for my my electronics stuff to be delivered also, so I cannot detail any of that work either, so you will have to make do with these couple of photos, as the plug appears today. I've plonked a 300mm set square on it to show the actual size.
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That's looking really nice. :-))
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She won't win any beauty contests but your getting her shape right and the surface pretty darn good, she's a winner.
Pardon my ignorance but don't you live on mainland Spain? If so how odd that your resin comes from an island. Perhaps GRPing is big on the Balearics.
I look forward to seeing your next update and wish you success in getting everything in one place for your epic build.
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It is the only supplier of resin I have found on ebay Spain. I've looked at various yacht chandlers on the coast and unlike the UK where everyone does their own repairs, it seems, like their cars, the Spanish take their boats to a repair yard, so nobody carries the stock. I can't even get matting here. If you go on ebay, like the resin it comes from suppliers based in the UK or Germany!
So I got 10 metres of mat delivered to my sis in law in the UK free delivery £21 for the mat. Or the delivery to Spain is £21 for the mat plus £12 for delivery. Sis in law is cheaper option even if I have to wait %)
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The wonders and occasional frustration of different cultures %%
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Hi Brian
An interesting project and your plug looks great :-)) Looking forward to following along
Kind Regards
Nigel
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Hi Brian
An interesting project and your plug looks great :-)) Looking forward to following along
Kind Regards
Nigel
O0 O0 O0
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Bet you all thought I'd given up - wrong {-) Due to the extremely hot weather we've had, trying to work with grp since the last update has been a nightmare. Resin with a worktime of 20 - 25 minutes gelled in the cup in just 4 minutes, {:-{ so its been a battle. Then as mentioned in chit chat, the surface wax I was sold as silicone free made the pva release agent react, so it all had to be removed from the mould and that thoroughly cleaned out before starting over.
For the mould seen in the first photo I made up a beeswax and turpentine polish, melt the solid beeswax bars in a tin, add 50% turps mix thoroughly and allow to cool and set, a lovely wax paste that not only is good for coating a mould, but does wonders as an old fashioned furniture polish - go on make your wives day, you know you want to :} The timber stretchers across the mould were to stop it flexing outwards until the first layer gelled. I had made the mould intentionally thin as I didn't want to waste too much material on something to be thrown away afterward.
Then it was apply the gel coat and the first layer of glass mat. This happened last weekend, the next two layers of glass mat went on during this week and this weekend I'll remove it from the mould. Hopefully there won't be too much to correct once it comes out and I can mark it up for all the openings to be cut, so come sunday maybe an update showing the actual hull.
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Well it certainly looks promising.
Hope it all goes well with the next stage. O0
Regards,
Ray.
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Could you recoup some of your modelling costs by selling the mould on? I am sure there would be others interested in the subject.
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Well it certainly looks promising.
Hope it all goes well with the next stage. O0
Regards,
Ray.
I'm eagerly awating pulling it from the mould this morning Ray :-)
Could you recoup some of your modelling costs by selling the mould on? I am sure there would be others interested in the subject.
Not really Ian, shipping cost from eastern Spain to anywhere else would be astronomical and make it not worthwhile.
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Right on saturday I removed it from the mould and for the most part it was fine, just a couple of small blemishes to fill and the mould lines to remove/fill. I did have to make a reverse curve lip around where the superstructure will eventually go. I couldn't mould this in at the beginning, it made the shape just too complicated. This can be seen better in the last photo.
So what you see in the photo's are the hull out of the mould, first filling of blemishes, then sand all over with 50 grit paper - very rough but what I wanted for this stage. Then a mist coat of rattle can primer all over. This is done because on the second sanding (180 grit this time) you are aiming to remove this paint. Any patches left mean there are low points or dings that need a second filler, this is shown in the following photo's of the bow, you can see a slight indent in the 'nose' and also along where the mould line was.
So more filler added, another sanding with 180 grit a final mist coat of primer and then a sanding down with 400 grit, to a nice finish - this part will be done in the morning. Then its mark out for cutting the various openings like windows,freeing ports, etc etc. Then into a proper primer coat before moving on.
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You have to focus on how the final finish will be whilst filling all the dings and looking at what at first seems a right state. It is interesting to watch and see your methods, thanks Brian.
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OK this is what I have learned this week, on reading general arrangement plans, all is not always as turns out in full size!
My g.a drawing showed the bow end being a mirror image port and starboard, while the stern end only has two hangar doors on the starboard. I made up a paper template of all the positions - hangar doors, hawse holes, windows, portholes, access hatches etc etc. I marked them all on the starboard side and cut them out.
I then pencilled them in on the port side but as it was late, I left the cutting until the day after -- good job I did!
Studying my photo's to make sure I had included everything, it suddenly clicked that the port side layout of the bow was totally different apart that is from the fast rescue craft hangar door, I was already aware there were no stern details apart from hawse holes.
These two photos show the stern tunnel thrusters cut into the hull, the hole for the stern daughter craft hanger and the two starboard hangar doors for oil spill recovery and rov operations.
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These three you can compare the difference between port and starboard layout. If you look closely you will also notice that the port side is also set on different levels to the starboard side. It must make for interesting internal split deck layout on the real ship!! Even the windows are different sizes from side to side- I double checked this on my photo's.
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Jumping forward somewhat, I have begun to make up the daughter craft slipway and hanger, this is because once assembled all of this will need to be epoxied into place to make sure no water can get into the hull from the stern. This will have working hangar doors that slide open and closed, so I am working on that system as I build, the mechanics are easy, but I have opted for micro linear stepper motors to ensure they open and close the same distance EVERY time!
Next up will be to fit the prop shafts, the rudders make the drives for the tunnel thrusters and then they can be epoxied into place as well.
So still a lot of work to do before I can get the hull primered......
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I think I understand what you're getting at ref the hangar door for the daughter craft slipway - I'm guessing, by the photos, that the door itself will be between the inner bulkhead and the middle one with the 2 "legs" ?
Regards,
Ray.
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That's correct Ray. None of it shown here is finished yet, that's why it looks haphazard. Its a sort of model in a model when its complete. When the doors are in and the electronics are attached, it will need to be bonded in permanently to make it all watertight at the back end.
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Nice one. Forward planning seems to be the key - especially with such a complicated model. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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I like the idea of the sandwich bulkhead Brian. With plenty of resin to keep the insides dry, it should all be snug and water tight even with the doors open. I take it that a rolling system will be built onto the slope once the bay has been epoxied in?
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I like the idea of the sandwich bulkhead Brian. With plenty of resin to keep the insides dry, it should all be snug and water tight even with the doors open. I take it that a rolling system will be built onto the slope once the bay has been epoxied in?
Yes indeed sir, I am scouring the cheap chinese shops for matchbox size cars for the wheels - I need 48 of them :} the trick is going to be how to motorise them all :o
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Yes indeed sir, I am scouring the cheap chinese shops for matchbox size cars for the wheels - I need 48 of them :} the trick is going to be how to motorise them all :o
Motorise just one set, pulley the remainder, one axle to the next set etc... - just a thought Brian, I've not tried anything like that myself. %)
Regards,
Ray.
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Hm. How about a length of studding acting on a small cog on each as a worm drive? Mind you, if you could get loads of those toy cars with the inertia mechanism then the axles the back wheels come on have the small cog on them already. With some modification moving the cog and perhaps using new axles then this would remove having to source so many separate parts. Back in the day these toys were as common as grass, they may still be?
I saw Ray's suggestion after I posted and think his idea might be easier!
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Here's the difficulty, they are set as groups of 4 wheels on a pivoting body, so in reality they not only revolve but also the whole unit pivots to match the shape of the daughtercraft hull.
Now I don't have to model this part in (the pivot) I could set them to the shape, in fact further thought, only the first couple actually would need to revolve (the lower ones) to help pull the daughterboat up the ramp.
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They look like LEGO-wheels!
Hama
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Snap! The hubs and mounts are even the same sort of grey that LEGO use!! In that case, pop onto the Lego website and see if you can order some wheel and block sets mind you, using the website is an ordeal:O(
The following codes may give you the mechanisms you need:
15mm x 6mm tyre code 87414 18 pence each.
Bearing element code 6157 18 pence each
Center with technic cross splined shaft (!!!!!) code 4624 8 pence each. These used as hubs for the drive wheels means you can use cross splined shafts and gears etc to drive them. Infact, if you use technic lego components, you can make the whole system.
Pick a brick sees to have one single non disclosed item out of its hundreds of brick designs in their store so do not know how they expect potential customers to buy bits from them >>:-(
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Thanks for putting up that photo Brian, your dilemma can now be appreciated more readily.
Ian's idea sounds feasible O0
Also, notice the water in the well ? I'm guessing some of that would come from the hull of the daughter boat itself - lots of other detail in that photo as well - nice one. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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I like the idea of the lego wheels Ian, but they are too large, scaled down these wheels are only 6-7mm in diameter, 13inch in real life smaller than a standard car wheel, that's why I have been looking to matchbox size cars to rob them of their wheels.
Always happy to add a photo if it helps explain stuff Ray ;)
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OK I've been bumbling along because I'm at a stage where I can't add part D because its waiting for part F and part A if you see what I mean.
So I have built the doors for the stern hangar out of plasticard but can't go any further because they are waiting part D ( linear stepper motors) The ramp can't go in because it is waiting for part F (the stern tunnel thrusters) and they can't be finished because I haven't got the parts to build them yet. See what I mean %%
So the doors were built along with a couple of watertight doors for the inside and two oval access hatches. The doors are near enough a copy of the real ones, I have had to alter the angle of the sliding mechanism to take into account the limited space inside.
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So this is the story so far...
watertight doors in place and the sliding stern doors primered and held in place for now until I can permanently attach them with the stepper motors.
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OK time for a very short update as I have just got back from the UK.
Before we returned I received in the post some grilles. These are actually marketed to the 1/35th scale modeller as drainage grilles of airfield dioramas. However they are just perfect as covers for the water intakes which on the real ship are for engine cooling, but here I will use them as the water pickup for the fire fighting monitors.
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So here are some of the electronic goodies I returned with, aside that is from normal building materials like plasticard and rod, the two prop shafts, some propellors etc etc.
I'll work around clockwise from top left.
1. This I have shown before, this is a lighting circuit bought from a builder in Germany, it should have gone in the POSH Venture, but I held it back for this model. It allows the simulation of real lighting via led's, ie, fluorescent tubes, metal halide and sodium. So you can have a flickering light as though a fluoro tube was failing, the flare of a sodium light and then the slow dim and finally out of metal halide types.
2 Two linear stepper motors and next to them their drivers, these are to open and close the stern hangar doors.
3 Motor shield for the arduino, this is to connect various low consumption motors to the Arduino's, less than 1 amp draw on each motor.
4 Seen before, this is an Arduino Uno, this will carry out all on board functions like operating the hangar doors, lowering the fast rescue rib, radar etc etc.
5 Obviously a 4 relay board to connect to the Uno for higher power demands
6 Across the bottom and seen previously, the 5 brushless motors to drive the tunnel and azimuth thrusters along with micro computer fans to help circulate air around them.
7 Eight relay board same as the one above
8 Arduino Mega, this will be doing all the motor control work of the brushless motors.
9 In the centre, most of these electronics are needed to allow this unit to function, this is the Inertial Movement Unit. It detects yaw, sway, forward, backward and up down movement from a set point. This is the heart of the dynamic positioning system I hope to get working, and the Arduino Mega is the brain that interprets the data it sends and turns them into motor signals for the brushless motors to keep the boat 'on station'
What I haven't shown here are the 5 esc's for the brushless motors and also the main drive units. I'm undecided whether to go full brushless for everything or use the brushed motors I had already bought - time will tell :}
So that is all for now. Hopefully I'll have the prop shaft in and the tunnel thrusters built for the next update, if so the hull will also be in paint!
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Looking good, nice to see another such nice project being brought to the maximum by using Arduino, to me, if done properly, it makes the boat so much more alive.
I'll be following this one.
Greetings Josse
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Like Josses' model, this looks to be an opus project. The sliding doors look good though I am worried about using plastic for large moving parts because if the plastic is not glued properly any sticking of the slide or nudge from another model could break bits off.
A friend of mine is building a 1:48th scale LST and it has plastic front doors. These look excellent and he has really got the angles and shapes right, but I am not sure it would survive a collision especially a few years down the line when the glue and plastic gets brittle. I would fabricate out of brass with soldered joints. Then like the real thing it will be stronger. I respect that it might warp if hit, but a brass fabrication should be stronger.
Call me a worry wart! The rear compartment already shows great promise.
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Cheers Josse I have been watching your developments on various forums for a number of years.
Ian I see your concerns, but the doors are inset by 20mm so no problem of being 'rammed' I made them originally in 2mm ply but then I couldn't add the formwork that is on view due to the overall thickness. I had considered brass sheet and profiles but weight came into the occasion, the stepper motors are only rated to 5 grams so would never move a brass door.
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Nice bit of engineering Brain, then you need to make tough decisions.
I'm having some of my own as well currently, I'll show them in my own build log.
Greetings Josse
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Procrastination is the name of the game, but needs must and this week I have finally stopped fiddling with everything else and knuckled down to actually making the tunnel thrusters, mainly because I can't do anymore to the hull until they are fitted!
So you saw the photo etch grilles last time, these are them fitted into the hull as water intakes. On the inside I have 'glassed in a collector plate and take off tube for connecting up the fi fi pumps. I have also added the bilge keels, made from some 5mm ply cut to shape then attached from the inside with screws and epoxied to the outside, then a fine coat of car body filler to flair them in - still need final shaping which will be done during prep for paint.
Also at this stage I have added the rubber 'bumpers' to each side, made from drive belt, I ordered a 1.2 metre length from ebay, imagine my surprise when I received what appeared to be a car fan belt! Again this was cut to length and epoxied to the hull, then 3mm strips of plasticard were used to surround them to give the appearance of the steel sleeve they slide into, this was superglued to the rubber strip, lots of searching the internet I couldn't find a better glue to stick rubber to plastic!
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I finished the stern loading dock for the daughterboat. This has caused some problems for me, over the course of 10 days I changed the wheel axles and then the carriers a total of four times. The supplied axles were too thin, so used brass pins cut down to size, but then they wouldn't stay in the carriers even using superglue. So ended up making a axle by gluing two wheels on each pin and then allowing the axle to freewheel in the carriers. Then I had to remake those as the original sizing of 5mm was just too wide, I re-made them in 3mm U section. What I haven't been able to accomplish is to make the pivot end to end. This was because the supports became too weak I felt they would break off in use.
I also had to rethink the retrieval of the daughterboat, as the finished bogeys were really fragile and of course space limited I couldn't add the belt drive I thought would work. However I have another method in mind and will follow up at a later date.
So these photo's are of the finished ramp on the bench and roughly in place in the hull, it has its first coat of paint, to be finished when the hull is up for painting. It can't be glassed in just yet as I still need to add the tunnel thrusters underneath it and of course the rudders to each side of it.
So this week see's me at the bench making tunnel thrusters, I already have mk I and mk II ready for consignment to the parts bin, ready for mk III :}
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It's great to see you are making progress Brian. Obviously, the access to the daughter boat dock will be limited, I just hope you don't forget any part(s) before the ship goes together.
Will the dock be illuminated on the completed model?...it's just a thought :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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That is a lot of model cars without wheels! Pop them on Ebay for wargamers as they are always looking for old car models to make barricades and distopian scenes with.
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It's great to see you are making progress Brian. Obviously, the access to the daughter boat dock will be limited, I just hope you don't forget any part(s) before the ship goes together.
Will the dock be illuminated on the completed model?...it's just a thought :-)
Regards,
Ray.
I'd like to say to much thought has gone in for me to forget something Ray, but never say never! The whole ship will be illuminated eventually, I just have to work out how to make about 60 flouoroscent tubes 12mm by 4mm :}
That is a lot of model cars without wheels! Pop them on Ebay for wargamers as they are always looking for old car models to make barricades and distopian scenes with.
That wouldn't be worth it Ian, the cars were only 90 cents each so about 60p, it would cost me far more in postage from Spain. I am also on a facebook page called weathered models, the vast majority of which are so 'weathered' they couldn't possibly be like that in real life! So the idea had crossed my mind ;)
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Well its been so long without an update I bet you all thought I'd given up!
So lets back up a bit, I spent days that ran into weeks trying to get the drive units for the thrusters built, I could not get the gears to mesh no matter what I tried. After a month of on off days where I had just lost total interest, I put aside a full day to re-jig and drill out to a larger size the plastic gears. This is when with some serious measuring I found out the actual pilot holes in them were off centre! The tolerance is ok for push along childrens toys but nowhere near good enough for what I wanted.
So hours of trawling t'internet and I came up with a new German supplier with reasonably priced brass gears. This cast off the cloud of disillusionment and I began afresh. These cost me 5€ each and I needed 10 ouch! The second photo shows the parts of the drive gearbox with the plastic gear on the shaft, One support bearing is already in the housing. Of course all the measurments now have to be redone to take into account the brass bearings are slightly longer in length, at the moment I think I just might have to buy some more copper 12mm T fitttings and redo the housing.
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Back up a bit more, remember the cars? well before I threw them out I realised I could cut the seats away from some of them so I also have the swivel chairs for the bridge once I get that far.
So I had the gears now, but I put them to one side and got on with the hull. I installed the tubes for the bow and stern thrusters, I can cut the holes for the drives later on. I'm in full on mode now to get the hull finished and painted before christmas.
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Those photo's also show the rubber bump strips in place down the hull, I think I mentioned previously that I used a drive belt to get the correct trapezoid shape.
Once the tunnels were in I turned to the Kort nozzles, again I made these using pvc drainage tubing, then I wrapped that in several layers of grp cloth to increase the diameter. Once it was dry I then sanded the grp back to give the correct conical profile, I did the same to the inside of the tubing as well. These are actually 20mm smaller than on my anchor handler even though its around 10 inches longer and broader in width. But then the real sized ship is only a supply vessel with limited towing ability so it wouldn't have near as much power as the anchor handler.
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I then made up a jig to hold the propshafts in place until they were grp'd into the hull. Once they were done the same jigs were used to hold the Korts in place while they were secured into place as well.
So next up and not ready for this update are the rudder assembly's. I am attempting to make working Becker rudders, if they work they will be on, if not I will go for a standard fixed blade with the appearance of a Becker, that is all for the next update
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Well its been so long without an update I bet you all thought I'd given up!
No chance! you're committed to this build now and even if you had to put it aside for a year, your determination (and skills) would ensure you see it through to completion. O0
....oh, and thanks for the update Brian. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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Any update is a good update. :-))
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Hi Brian,
What size props / what size becker rudders are you hoping to use?
Regards,
Kim
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I'm glad you all stuck around for the update :D
Hi Brian,
What size props / what size becker rudders are you hoping to use?
Regards,
Kim
Kim this has 50mm props (the anchor handler in my byline has 60mm) The beckers are slightly larger at 55mm by 35mm these measurements taken from the yard plan.
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The whole ship will be illuminated eventually, I just have to work out how to make about 60 flouoroscent tubes 12mm by 4mm :}
Brian - any use?
Perhaps LED and opaque plastic tube?
http://rchub.co.uk/led-flickering-fluorescent-tube-simulation/
C-3PO
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so what effect would a white led encased in a black out box at the end of a piece of acrylic clear rod be like, with a piece of foil at the other end to reflect the light back along the rod, similar effect to a fibre optic ?
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Brian - any use?
Perhaps LED and opaque plastic tube?
http://rchub.co.uk/led-flickering-fluorescent-tube-simulation/ (http://rchub.co.uk/led-flickering-fluorescent-tube-simulation/)
C-3PO
so what effect would a white led encased in a black out box at the end of a piece of acrylic clear rod be like, with a piece of foil at the other end to reflect the light back along the rod, similar effect to a fibre optic ?
I reckon I have it sorted. I have some 2mm fibreoptic that spills its light along its length (edge lit) rather than from the end. Then I have some .5mm fibre optic that shine light from its end. I am going to cut the thicker one in 12mm lengths and at the centre bore a shallow hole then bond the thinner fibre into it. the thin one can be fed to wherever the light source will be. Hopefully it will form a fluorescent strip of sorts.
The flickering effect I have a special unit for this that does fluoro's, sodium, mercury vapour and ordinary light bulb simulation. In fact the electronics for this build without rc gear, servo's, motors etc must be bordering on £400 :o
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there was a guy from Australia selling on ebay . 3D printed becker rudders. I got pair and was impressed .
john
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OK I have the Becker rudders made. The illustration shows how I got them to operate, in the real world these are hydraulically operated through a complicated linkage system - I simplified it for the model. I'd like to say I arrived at the pivot point through some magical geometric math equation but no. As the photo's show, I drilled holes in a piece of ply 2mm apart from the rudder post, then by moving the wire shown in the drawing between the holes I determined the right one to use. 10mm seemed to be the optimum, I don't honestly think it will have any real effect in helping to steer the model but it looks ok.
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The rudders and flaps were cut in 2mm acrylic on my laser cutter, 2 of 3each made up a single rudder, this allowed the sandwiching of the rudder shaft and the pivot shaft between the sections and then bonding together. The brass tube had a flap soldered into to give extra leverage to the acrylic rather than just relying on the epoxy bonding the shaft. Using brass tube also allows a couple of small holes to be drilled at the top end so that oil can be squirted down it and it will lubricate between the shaft and the sleeve into the hull
Also you may notice some cracks in the acrylic, apparently it doesn't like being cleaned and degreased with alcohol, dunno why, but as they were all on the inside and didn't penetrate the full thickness, I used them.
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So a photo of them in place and you may notice that the first primer is on the hull - bet you never thought it would happen {-) there are a few pinholes in the gel coat in places that need filling, they didn't show up until the primer was on, so they will get done this week and then final primer before main coat.
I also cast some anodes to place in places along the hull, you can see them on the kort nozzles and rudders. I haven't gone overboard with them as the real ship also has some sort of electrical apparatus that runs to plates in the hull rather than having zinc anodes all over.
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As I am having to build this on the fly - as usual for my builds, nothing is ever simple, the deck has to go on before I can paint all the way up at the stern, the sides between forward upperworks and the stern deck - the walkways have to be bonded in for the same reason, But I can't attach these until I have other stuff completed internally.
So I have been cutting stuff this week that can't go in for a month or two but at least I know it all fits as and when needed. So the stern deck planking was done, the bare patches will be covered with 10 thou plasticard to simulate the steel decking and winch pads.
Also those side walkways as they had such a crisp edge rather than making them up in thin ply and not having rigidity I jused some L shape aluminium extrusion. This had the safety spaces cut for crew to escape through in the event of anything dangerous happening on the work deck. They will also be pre drilled for rail stanchions and lighting before bonding into place. Lastly as the laser was up and running for the decking I also cut a servo mount for the two rudder servo's. So that's all for now.
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Progressing well Brian. Your becker rudders got me thinking so went and had a look at their website. It's quite in-depth and gives some interesting facts & figures with regard to coefficients of the various shapes of blades.
www.becker-marine-systems.com/03_products/products_hercales.html
I like the look of your servo mounting as well by the way - looks nice and sturdy. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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Cheers Ray, yes their website is quite comprehensive isn't it. When I was looking for details it was my first port of call, getting an insight into how the things worked - then having a go at re-engineering for model use.
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Cracking work on the drive train, and the hull looks great Brian.
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I just discovered your build, I'll be following. That hull is impressive! Nice work on the rudders, those are quite complex. If you don't mind me asking, what laser cutter are you using?
Thanks.....Sylvain
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Hi Sylvain. I use a K40 laser. Its a desktop sized unit that has a 40watt tube (allegedly) Cutting area is around A4 paper size but you can with a little ingenuity cut or mark a bigger area that that!
Over your side in the USA these units sell for around $7 - 800
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Hi Sylvain. I use a K40 laser. Its a desktop sized unit that has a 40watt tube (allegedly) Cutting area is around A4 paper size but you can with a little ingenuity cut or mark a bigger area that that!
Over your side in the USA these units sell for around $7 - 800
Ok, thanks for the information Brian. It's very appreciated :-))
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Sound of trumpet fanfare...................
Very quick update, the hull is now fully primered, red oxide below waterline is final. The white primer needs the final mid blue colour adding, but I can't do that until the bow deck, stern deck and side walkways are bonded in. Inevitably there will be some filler required between the deck edges and the grp hull, so until that is completed the final top coat is a waste of time.
Plenty to be getting on with on the inside, but all that will be in the next update.
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What a difference a lick of paint makes - she's already looking the part Brian, so well done to date. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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I like the look of your workshop as well Brian. Great progress.
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Coming along nicely Brian, going to be a mighty impressive model when finished. Look forward to next update.
Stewart
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Cheers for the encouragement guys, but Ian, workshop? {-) {-) This is my wife's crafts room, I'm allowed a small bench in the corner. Inevitably as happens I kind of 'spread' out a bit. It's when she comes in to paint a watercolour or something else unfathomable to us blokes and looks like <*< <*< that I reign in my stuff and move back into the corner :}
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Cripes! I am glad I didn't call it your 'Man cave'! We might both have got into trouble :embarrassed: I have almost that many brushes so thought you might have a goodly number for adding details and effects.
Whatever the apportion of space, it looks just right for decent model making especially with that lovely sunshine:O)
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It's looking really good with the primer and paint on! Very impressive hull.
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Well its been a while and truth be told, I have on more than one occasion almost dumped the lot and given up. First off the daughterboat hangar. I have completely redone this, I am not a watchmaker and don't have the skills, so I gave up on attempting to get all the wheels to turn for launching/recovering the craft, I have another idea in mind that I can't yet reveal until it is installed in the main hull....
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So each pair of wheels do turn on the bogeys, but they are freewheeling now.
Next up were the motors for the hangar doors, these are stepper motors which have problems all of their own. I had to take out the shaft of one to turn the slider part of the linear track around so it was on the other side. Of course I lost a ball bearing which meant I had to re-order one from yes, China, 5 weeks on I am still waiting, so I can get the hangar finally assembled and installed. As you can see the bearing is minute and couldn't be found on the floor.
More update to follow after mealtime :)
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OK to carry on. The stern tunnel thrusters. I built two right angled drive units for them, only to find they were too long to go into the tubes without hanging out the ends >>:-( <:( , at least I can use them on the bow thruster tubes. After much wasted time I have gone with direct drive of the props via brushless motors which will run underwater, how exactly the electrical terminals and bearings (supposedly sealed) will bear up to this only time will tell. Which brought up another problem, I ordered some motors from Hobbyking only to find even after careful measurement, that they wouldn't allow too much waterflow {:-{ So I re ordered smaller units. Bear in mind that ordering from Holland to Spain can take 2-3 weeks and another 6 weeks of waiting/down time.
The new smaller motor with prop attached, I'm still not 100% convinced this is the way forward and might change my mind yet.
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The raised stern deck is finished apart from fastening it into place. I can't do this until the launch hanger for the daughterboat is bonded in. But I have finished the cut outs at each side and put the weathertight doors and fire monitors into place, all ready for paint.
I actually found out during this period that after calling them watertight doors for years, I am wrong! There is a difference between watertight and weathertight doors although they look the same. Weathertight doors can be fitted to openings above waterline (LWL) but below it all doors have to rated as watertight.
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Also at the stern on the starboard side are two uplift doors, the rearmost is to deploy the oil spill recovery skimmer, this is operable on my boat and as will be the recovery float. The one next to it is for launching the ROV, this is fixed down.
So between getting deeply involved in arduino sketches (operating code) I have been lately working on the lifting door for this part of the build. So far I have redone the hinge parts 3 times and they still won't operate. I had no real drawing that I could take measurement from, just an artist sketch and a photo. The real world hinge certaintly won't work in the model for sure! I cannot get the hinge to swing the door clear of the hull, it catches/seizes in the top of the recess, but I will plug on...
The photo shows the door partially completed - still more bracing to add to the inside. The hinge pivot can be seen with gear drive that will engage a similar one on a micro servo, which I have gutted to leave the motor and drive gear so it is continuous rotation. forward and backward drive of the motor is done by arduino.
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Lastly for now, this is what your workbench looks like after weeks of being p****d off with everything and wanting to dump it all. To add icing to the cake, my trusty Ryobi wore out its motor brushes just after xmas. I ordered new ones which were not OE, they were fine and have lasted oooh lets see, 5 weeks :(( they went again over the weekend. Fortunately I had in the meantime bought another drill, same model but it just doesn't feel the same in the hand.
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These models do seem to be an emotional roller coaster ride to build. I like your hinges and the reinforcement frame with all those lightening holes. That is dedication to the cause :-))
I look forward (as I am sure you are) to see the various mechanisms working.
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Let's do some more ;)
The starboard hangar door now complete with all its internal bracing in place. Along with two of the four mounting hinges, I just couldn't find anything commercial to the right size. So after the first attempt where I used some photoetch which turned into an epic fail, I made some more out of thicker brass strip. These are now bonded to the door but the door is still waiting to go into the hull
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Next up the stern hangar is now bonded into the hull and some internal detailing is being added to what now becomes the starboard hangar. I've included a couple of photo's of the starboard door mocked into place to show how it is in operation.
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This first photo shows the stern hangar in place with the rudder servo's on their mounting plate (along with some other electrical stuff, the escs are for the aft thrusters under the hangar) I've shown this so that you can see the minimal space I have to work with. On the left/starboard side I have to get the hangar deck in and also drive motors underneath it.
The next photo's are for the oil spill recovery syphon equipment. Built in black styrene -I had ordered white but on arrival I also had an email to say they had no white in stock so substituted black! All parts drawn in Coreldraw and then cut out on the laser cutter.
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The idea with this boom was that it would swing out, raise up and down and deploy the hose. Trouble is at this scale I have found those operations just won't fit in the space available, so I am just having it pivot outwards when the door lifts. The decking is covered with treadplate pattern and can be bought from ebay in sheets down as small as 1:144 %%
SO more photo's as it has developed, the lettering was done with decal sheet in the laser printer, these give far superior results to inkjets printers and for the small additional cost are worth buying.
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It's supposed to look like this so I reckon I have a reasonable facsimile..
Why you ask have I completed this now. Well the deck needs to be bonded into place - yes I can't get at anything underneath it once it is! But before I could do so, the drive mechanism for the recovery equipment had to be mounted and to do this the jib had to be built - just another of those hurdles that have become the norm in this build.
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Oh I should also have pointed out that this bay along with the equipment is getting suitable 'weathered' to simulate it has been in oilspill recovery operations - I doubt the real thing will ever be used in anger, its just part of Norwegian safety regs for ships operating in arctic waters.
So to finish this update, the bow doors used when mooring to dockside - eventually both sides will open close and deckhands will pop out, one is shown statically for now.
Oh yes, its still primered no blue colour in place yet, I'm still finding minor blemishes to fill and sand...
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Very interesting to follow this build, keep it up!
Hama
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Well now, that's quite a detailed update Brian. This build, along with all the electrical gizmo's, is definitely not for those who would give in easily.
When frustrations set in - walk away - come back to it with a refreshed mind. I feel certain you will bring this project to a satisfactory conclusion. :-)
By the way, the "oily weathering" on the recovery unit looks fantastic ! :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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Nice work on the door structure and the boom.
:-)) :-)) :-))
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I set aside 12 months for this model start to finish, I'm into month 14 I think and seem to be no further on then I started ( I know I'm not and have made progress) It's now looking like a 2 year job before I see the end, I'm even beginning a 'pond yacht' just for the depression periods* to keep me going :embarrassed:
*times when you just can't face looking at it anymore :}
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don't forget to add the hose - surprised its square section on the AutoCAD drawing.
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don't forget to add the hose - surprised its square section on the AutoCAD drawing.
Its square section on the actual equipment as well - well almost, like a rectangle with puffed out sidewalls.
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EDIT: the hose is rectangular because it also has inside electrical cabling for the propulsion units on the recovery head as well has the suction hose. Two photo's one of it recovering oil and the second to show just how large it is. In the hangar there is a guy leaning against it at the top right of the photo
OK a fairly repetitive update with a couple videos thrown in as well.....
First model photo is the boom in place without the door, more of which later, its been shown before but now the lighting for the hangar is installed, I'll do these again when it is darker so the lighting is better. So a video :} I have finally got all of the electronic components together and I am currently programming an Arduino board to take care of all the boom movements and door opening sequences for me. This is the boom operating, notice the noise, this is what happens when you slow down a servo so much, it is moving by degree rather than sweeping fully. It is also moving not from its centre park position which is normal for a servo, but the arduino has it begin at one end in this case 180 degrees and sweep fully back to 80 degrees to get enough movement out of the servo....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vccru5e7Tj0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vccru5e7Tj0)
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A daughterboat view of the stern hangar to show the flood lighting inside, the doors for this should be operational for the next update so more video :-))
Talking of doors, the starboard hangar where the boom is, this door has caused me problems. I used a servo same as the boom to turn the shaft to open and close it. Trouble was the door would only open about an inch, even using the full 180 degree swing with arduino control. I built a gearbox 2:1 ratio, it still only opened half way >:-o So I built another gearbox 4:1 ratio, now it opens 3/4's of the way which is about correct, first photo, now its all worky worky I finally fixed in this piece of deck which had the boom and this gearbox attached to it. Almost to the painted hull stage :embarrassed: So having this now working a video of which in the next update also, the door and boom will work in tandem.
I got to partially finishing the stern raised deck, stained the woodwork, put on some weathering from wet ropes to the tugger winches etc, this will be bonded in this week allowing me to make good any gaps between the deck and the hull edging before final touch up paint.
While at this end I designed the tugger winches in Coreldraw and then exported the file to my laser cutter and cut out the shapes for the winches, next few of them before and after assembly, there is an old crew figure for scale.
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I have also lasered the main deck this week, done in two pieces to get it into the laser. I cut the lines into the ply for the planks and hatch covers etc. Now I could have turned the laser on to engraving mode for the hatch covers and the steel dividers, but engraving is so slow comparatively.
So the way I did it was once the laser cuts were done, I used a 6mm wood chisel to gently chase them out, the before and afters can be seen in the photo's The inlays were also cut in .25mm plasticard so I can get a smooth steel like finish for the paint.
Once the lining was cut on the laser, I ran a piece of low tack painting mask down the centre of the decking. Put it back in the laser and cut out the numbers. I then peeled the numbers away leaving a neat stencil for me to spray the yellow paint on.
Finally a couple shots of the deck floodlights and the access ways as well, these will be done again when it is darker and some more paint on. That it for another couple of weeks, time of year when family come over for the village fiestas and then I have a trip back to the UK to make - woohoo make sure to pick up plenty of consummables {-)
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The movement of the boom was not too noisey. Maybe the microphone did not pick it up well, but it was not a horrofic sound, and if operating it a few feet out in the lake, I expect it will be much quieter.
I think we all find that once we get into the details and painting the time just scoots by. The hull is often the quick bit because it is a large and solid item where as there could be two thousand items of detail on a large vessel including bloomin boats!
I look forward to your video of the doors opening.
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The movement of the boom was not too noisey.
I'm with Ian on this one - I think a little noise actually adds to the overall effect.
Talking of effects, your oily paint job looks great. :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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Brian...I am with Ian & Ray here......when the hull is in the water, the drive sound for the boom slew will be minimised...& hey, in the real vessel the boom slewing function would have been driven over hydraulic counterbalance valves so there would be a continuous high pitched wine during slew movement in both directions
In the alternate video, after the stern housed jet boat returned, they lowered & hoisted a [stdb side?] smaller boat.....when it was re hoisted back onboard I did not see any form of cradle for this smaller craft to rest in?????
This video also confirmed the great amass of hydraulic systems, and despite epoxy paint systems, these will not look so clean & tidy after a year at sea.......[that is especially after the engineers onboard crack unions & flanges <*< to attempt to diagnose system faults :embarrassed:]
Derek
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Sorry I'm a bit late with the reply Derek. I have around 30 photo's kindly supplied by one of the ships officers and I think you'll find this interesting, there is no cradle it is hanging from the extendible boom once it is in the 'parked' position. This is the starboard side looking toward the stern. The one you viewed in the video is on the port side but the same system.....
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This diagram from the manufacturer explains the boom system better than I could describe.
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The door action makes much more sense after viewing the video.
http://www.aukramaritime.no/en-gb/davits.aspx
:-)
Are you planning on making the davit operational also? :o
8)
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The door action makes much more sense after viewing the video.
http://www.aukramaritime.no/en-gb/davits.aspx (http://www.aukramaritime.no/en-gb/davits.aspx)
:-)
Are you planning on making the davit operational also? :o
8)
I am Umi. The stern doors and the stern starboard door will be operational. I'm hoping to have the port forward door work and lower the rescue boat - not release it, just lower and raise, but we will have to see.
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I seem to have overlooked posting these photo's from last month - or maybe I was keeping them for the next update, I've forgotten, maybe its half zeimers (that's not quite alzeimers %% )setting in, I don't know.
Anyway I can't start on the port side forward opening hangar door until part of the winch house is installed as it is all one deck level. So I cracked on and finished the lights, which is what these photo's show.
I cut some acrylic sheet into 12mm long by 2mm deep and 2mm wide pieces. Into one of the 2mm sides I etched a hollow 1mm deep. Into these went some 1 x 2 mm surface mount led's. I have after many attempts worked out a way to hold these while I solder on some enamelled copper wire as the feeds to them. The finished article will resemble 1metre strip lights when finished and lit up. The winch house is illuminated with from what I see on the photos, about 6 of these, so is the underneath of the winch house which is a sheltered area of the work deck. So I have them all made up and now they are in situ, yet not wired into the switching unit for them as yet. Maybe next update I can show them working, for now I will be carrying on with making the mechanism to open that hangar door and raise/lower the fast rescue craft - I happened across some 100mm drawer runners which run on bearings this last week - I didn't know they made them so small. A little work and I should be able to shorten them to 80mm and then its a case of building the hoist onto them and working out a motor system. The winch house is shown in place but not yet bonded in. I also made up on of the hiab style cranes that locates on the stern starboard side. again its not attached as it still needs paint in this area and more finishing of the jib - paint, decals and cable.
thats all for now folks...
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Your ability to represent lighting, on a ship, was very much in evidence on your "POSH VENTURE" build so, hopefully, all will go well this time around as well - looking good Brian. :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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Drawer runners for hoists, genius! 8)
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Your ability to represent lighting, on a ship, was very much in evidence on your "POSH VENTURE" build so, hopefully, all will go well this time around as well - looking good Brian. :-)
Regards,
Ray.
Thanks Ray, this is something new I'm trying for lights, hopefully it works out - they look like strip lights once turned on otherwise a waste of time!
Drawer runners for hoists, genius! 8)
It had to be something like this Ian. if you check post 106, you will see the whole mechanism slides outwards but is hung from the roof (deck head) of the hangar, so necessitating something that could slide in and out. I could have made a runner in brass or plasticard, but the drawer runner has ballbearings! making it smoother to operatev-no jamming :-)
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Another short update. The main deck needed finishing with a sealer around the perimeter, I bought some 25 x 20mm timber and routered a 5mm groove into its edge, then simply mitred the ends and glued it to the underside of the one piece deck. The groove was filled with a length of rubber sealing strip for double glazed windows that I found while browsing my diy shop.
The postie came! I now possess the drive gears for my main drives. As ever nothing is simple in life, the smaller motor ones are blank so I can drill those out to the 5mm shafts on the motors. The larger ones for the prop shafts however are drilled through 8mm, my shafts are 4mm - problem :} So I need to make up a couple of sleeves for those. But it doesn't stop there, even though the gears are aluminium they are quite weighty and I reckon that spinning at 4000rpm it is going to put a lot of strain on the shafts, so I am in the process of building an outrigger plate for the shafts.
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But this is what I have been working on lately. It is the port side fast rescue craft launcher/davit. It is suspended from a runner which will eventually be suspended inside the hull. The basics are made up from plasticard cut to shape following the drawing several posts above and a couple of photo's I have. I made the large motor as you can see with a piece of dowel and then short lengths of copper wire cyano'd to the outside. Gluing some plasticard on it, the result is a good facsimile of an electric motor. I have had to stray away from a complete copy as it would be just too fragile, so I have got close and as it stands its about 70% finished and almost ready for primer.
On the next post I hope to show the operation of the unit sliding in/out. It would have been here but my first idea/attempt did not work out, so a rethink on the operation linkage is necessary.
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Golly, I would have sold you some motors.... O0
Of course the postage would have killed you. <:(
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Hello Brian
dont know if you have seen this on Ebay.de
John
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schottelantrieb-Gondel-Twin-f%C3%BCr-Graupner-Azipod-Seabex-One-Thyssen-2/162601940401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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Brilliant detailing on your launch system Brian, and those motors look good Umi :-))
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Golly, I would have sold you some motors.... O0
Of course the postage would have killed you. <:(
Thanks for the offer Umi, I can actually buy them here from Shapeways courtesy of some German and Dutch modellers :-)) But for this which will not really be on view once in situ it really wasn't worth the 6€ plus mailing charge :embarrassed: You have some nice 3d modelling in those and I'm wondering whether to knuckle down and do the same with my crane boom that can be seen back in the last photo of post 111 I made it up in plasticard but like everything made from this stuff is fairly fragile - I wouldn't want to accidentally knock it about!
Hello Brian
dont know if you have seen this on Ebay.de
John
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schottelantrieb-Gondel-Twin-f%C3%BCr-Graupner-Azipod-Seabex-One-Thyssen-2/162601940401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schottelantrieb-Gondel-Twin-f%C3%BCr-Graupner-Azipod-Seabex-One-Thyssen-2/162601940401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
These are available from one of the German websites that I frequent John, but at the moment they don't suit my current build which is props in fixed korts.
Brilliant detailing on your launch system Brian, and those motors look good Umi :-))
I hope it looks the part once it is primered and has a cohesive look to it Ian. As I said still some to add to it and file off the rough end on the slide mechanism..
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Well certainly not disappointed Brian, this is another lovely build
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A bit more of an update for you. First of all the FRC (fast rescue craft) launcher and davit in the last photo's lives behind this hangar door, shown partially lifted.
It gave me a few headaches on how to move the launcher in and out - the system I devised had to be scrapped as it impinged on the part of the winch house that can be seen from outside. I eventually went for a lever operating system that has its pivot forward of the hangar, I just need a strong enough servo to push/pull it now, so recommendations for a servo with lots of torque?
As I am working I am having to install paintwork and lights as I go to unreachable places. These photo's show some of the strip ( Fluorescent lights) that I have made. There are also 3mm leds in there connected to fibre optic strands so that warning lights work on control panels.
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This is the frc hangar with its lighting, see the panels in the background? Also look closely at the davit, I have put a couple of fibre optics into the operating panel on that as well, two tiny green lights.
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Now all these lights needed ballasting with resistors (surface mount led;s for the strip lights) I made up this panel of 16 resistors, but this increased to 26 with a second board and also two smaller ones that carry two 3mm leds for the fibre optics. I don't expect this area to generate much heat - resistors dissipate heat, its how they work. But once the lighting for this area is finished, I am installing a small 50mm fan to keep air circulating over them. So just this section lit up has 26 smleds, and 15 fibre optic strands.
Now I was going to make this area nice and tidy with cable ties and hold backs etc, but at the end of the day hot glue worked the best to secure the fine wiring I had used. The main thing was to keep it bunched together so it cannot be fouled by hand reaching inside at a later date.
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Remember how time and time again in this build I have said you have to think ahead?
Here is a case in point. Now all the stuff for lighting and the frc launcher is now in, the deck above can be secured down. However, on its rear edge are mounted a couple of flood lights. Once finished and in place it would be impossible to run the wiring for these, so they had to be located, wired up and masked off before the deck could be fastened down.
This is the deck with some painting going on - again the yellow walkway would be inaccesible once in place and the next section attached - it can be seen but not reached easily, so put the main paint on and hope I can reach any touchup that needs doing afterwards. The two lights can be seen with masking tape wrapped on them.
The flood lights are clear cast resin with an led embedded during the pour of the liquid. As a mould I cut a shape of the floodlight in a piece of square dowel, then simply pressed it into plasticine. the resulting shaped holes were then filled with the clearcast resin. I have shown this on the POSH venture build documented elsewhere.
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Last up for now is this little crane boom. I made this one in plasticard but I'm not happy with it, there are two one on the starboard stern corner and one on the port side of the deck shown above. But plasticard feels too fragile for them, so I am delving into sketchup with a view to making a 3d drawing and having them made by shapeways. My thinking is that if it goes well, I have another larger boom to go on this deck at starboard side and also the fast rescue craft to be made, all of which would be better in a solid cast material. Failining that I may make wooden shapes and then cast them in resin, we shall see.
So thats it for now, I am still getting closer to the point at which a final sanding over and spraying of the external paint can take place! ext time I'll exlain about the next level decks which can be seen as started on the green deck section.
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Wow!! Those lights on the controls make it look so realistic! I'm amazed!
Hama
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Thanks Hama, you'll be amazed at the lighting that I hope to show in the update after this one!
OK another short update as I am struggling to pick up much needed stock. I'm back in the UK in a fortnight and have a suitcase full of stuff to collect at my sons!
Let's begin, the first photo, D deck is now bonded into place so that I can get on with C deck. This caused yet another day of cursing and cussing. The hangar door that is open on the port side, I had that closed to and then bonded on the green deck. Next day deck firmly in place and so was the hangar door! <:( The epoxy had seeped out of the edge of the deck and set in the hinge mechanism >>:-( I spent an afternoon with metal picks and a fine tip on my dremel all to no avail. I eventually had to snap the hinge mechanism, grind it all out of the hull and remake it. It did have a result though as I had not added the detailing to the inside of the door, so it made that job easier doing it on the bench rather than in situ.
This photo also shows the beginnings of C deck level, notice in the upper hull there are two ' elongated windows' one port and one a little lower starboard.
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These are internal walkways, it seems the decks are on split levels within the ship but my plans don't show them in detail. However I made the walkways as sub assemblies.
First photo is starboard side and the second with it held up to the opening, the next is the port side, with a large air vent. these are now totally finished and put to one side, I won't bond them into place until the hull paint is finished to avoid overspray. Yes hull paint! this WILL be done for the next installment, I am now at a point where it won't impact any of the remaining build. The next photo is of both walkways together and complete, except for a companionway that runs up to the next deck level where my thumb is.
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The companionways, I have 10 of these in total, fortunately raking through my spares box I found some lengths of plastic stair of the correct size so they got recycled for this project. I made up the handrails in brass wire and soldered the joints. Last time I'm doing this as I have found superglue is quite sufficient and gives a neater finish as there is less of it :} Soldering will still be done on railings where it my get some rough treatment from accidental knocks etc. So one stairway finished and it shown in place in the green deck.
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Last ones for now and its lighting again! C deck level and those two walkways require another 20 fluoroscent lights, so thats another 20 leds to fabricate, 20 resistors and associated wiring. The photo shows the panel for this made up on the bench and hot glued into place in the hull. They are not connected yet as the leds yes you guessed, they are in the UK waiting for me to collect {:-{
Anyway I'm sure I've mentioned, all of this lighting along with other functions is to be controlled by Arduino, so if you look at the port side walkway, the window to the left is now a sealed 'cabin' on the inside with its own led, this has been programmed via the arduino to flicker as though a crewman was watching a tv in his cabin, this is not an unusual occurence as tv's are fitted to each cabin via a shipwide distribution system.
I feel I'm into the final stretch now, the aft wall of the superstruture is ready to be bonded in, here it is replete with its owners name. However if it is firmly attached now, I have only room to get one arm down inside the top opening hmmmm, no problem if it was finished but guess what I haven't installed yet? yes the two bow thrusters! So a little of that in the next update as well.
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Very nice! Spaghetti comes to mind when looking at your wires :}
Your wires look kinda thick, is this by design or didn't you want/have anything thinner?
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The wires look thick but they aren't, it is actually cat 6 telephone wire, I buy 10 metre's of multistrand cable and strip off the outer sheath. The twisted pairs of wire are just 0.5mm diameter. It doesn't come much thinner than that without meltback of the plastic shrouding, even so it happens, that is why the bottom of each has a sleeve of red heatshrink tube over it. These 'tails' connect to single filament copper wire that feed the led's, the single filament wire is sold for winding power transformers and is as thin as human hair. The leds are only 2mm by 1mm in size, they are meant for surface mounting on pcb's so anything more than the copper wire is too thick, I can't connect this direct to the circuit board as it is too delicate, so that is why the transition to the telephone wire before connecting up to the resistors. It is also the reason why I embed these copper wires in hot glue, it offers protection against accidental damage by adding thickness to them.
Oh I should add that they will of course look a lot neater than this once gathered together after soldering, I have plenty of nylon overbraid to cover all my wiring with, but for now I have to endure the rats nest :-))
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Brilliant! :-))
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Brilliant! :-))
No,... "Holy Cow!!!"
:o
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There is some astounding detail building up on your model Brian. I love those FRC positions with their exquisite control boxes and mechanisms 8)
It always surprises me how small things are once you take into account the magnification of the image.
Top Job sir :-))
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This really is a very inspiring build!
Great looking details!
Greetings Josse
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I think Dom had it in the bowl first..... O0 ...........................
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I wasn't planning an update just yet, but lets get rid of some photo's that I have stored. %%
As we are on lighting, lets continue. I finally got hold of some more smled's so I could make up more 3ft fluoroscent lights - in actual fact just 10mm long. This is where you don't always know what you will receive when ordering from China! 0406 is what I ordered, knowing this to be the size I had bought last time. But to be safe I also ordered some 0608 size as well. The photo shows what I received, with the tiniest being supplied in person from an electronics shop in the UK. All of these came designated as 0406 - so work that one out!
The tiniest (from UK supplier) will be consigned to a drawer and forgotten about, the store owner laughed at me when he handed them over and I said I was soldering by hand. Even using magnifying glasses and also a magnifying headset I cannot see the terminals.
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Anyway another 12 lights made and so far this is the result, although difficult to see there are 34 fluoro lights on show here. This part of the ship is now finished with lighting. I am back to doing mechanicals as I have new stock to build with. What I did notice was that even though these things are tiny and are embedded in acrylic (for the strip light effect) they are so bright that they can actually be seen shining through 4mm of grp hull side! Good job it still needs paint on {-) The wall with mokster on it is not bonded in yet as I need access to the inside of the hull at this point, its just resting in place to see the overall effect of the lights.
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While I was waiting to make the trip to the UK to collect my stock I began making up the cargo rails for the stern. Brass tube bent to shape and then painted, it will be epoxied in place once the final paint is on the hull, so far I have flat surfaces to turn it upside down, while spraying, I don't want to damage these add on parts doing so. Theres a crew figure included here to give a sense of scale, each of the stanchions cut and drilled to size from a sheet of brass.
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And this is where these sections will be located eventually...
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OK whats next?.... yep bow doors for crew to moor the ship. I decided early on that these would open close - another bad decision of major problem solving %% Anyway here is one of the doors easy to make, what is not easy are the hinges, make them small enough to be unobtrusive on the outside of the hull yet still function. I cut and folded brass sheet around a dress makers pin to make this up, it just need adding to the hull and then a servo and linkage to open and close it.
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Finally lets rewind quite a few months. I laid out the parts for the tunnel thrusters, it looked simple, but it has taken me a lonnnng time to sort them out. The stern thrusters had so little clearance I resorted to actually mounting the props direct to the outrunner motors and mounted these directly in the tunnels - trusting to the fact that these motors are waterproof -ish and will operated underwater (there are youtube videos showing this happen) I'm not clear on how well the sealed bearings will hold up but hey.......
Anyway I finally got around to actually making the bow thrusters this last week and they work, I've had them mounted in a an electric drill to make sure. They just need a final plate soldering on across the bearings to seal them, but I want to put some silicone grease inside first, I can't buy this until later in this week. So what you see here are the two units waiting for final installation. Get that done and I can most definitely move on to final hull colour sometime in january.
Well thats all for now, every one have a jolly exciting xmas holiday, and I'll work on a new update very soon.
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Bow mooring doors... wait how many channels is this model going to need? :o
What radio are you using to run all the features?
Or is an Arduino or raspberry pi being worked into the mix, did I miss that?
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Bow mooring doors... wait how many channels is this model going to need? :o
What radio are you using to run all the features?
Or is an Arduino or raspberry pi being worked into the mix, did I miss that?
Yes you missed it Aimee. Currently I have an arduino mega lined up, but I'm exploring the possibility of a nano or standalone pwm board connected to the arduino just to run the lighting, leaving the pwm channels on the arduino for the other functions the ship will have.
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This build is nothing but a complete pain in the head. Suffice to say I am seriously considering binning it all and moving on. The latest setback? Well prepping for paint, I connected up the two stern door motors and both are seized in the open position, no idea why, they were working back in November when I last had to move them, but both linear stepper motors just refuse to budge. As they are sealed in by that big stern deck shown in post 140, I am trying to reach them through a space the size of a postage stamp at the end of a tunnel - gynaecology would be a cakewalk {-) I just might have to cut out that deck for access and redo it, this is on top of a whole weeks work of getting the bow doors working only to find out I don't have room for the operating mechanism!
I have to have a serious think about this now. There may or may not be further updates, I'd say if we get to the end of the month without one, you can guess the outcome!
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Never give up Brian, problems are there to be solved and make us better than before.
I would guess the doors or guides have expanded. I would try and lever them whilst applying power.
Fingers crossed for you, would hate to see all your hard work go down the pan.
Stewart
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I wish we could help you Brian. Fingers crossed you can sort it all out.
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Well no further photo's at the moment, just a quick update.
I decided to carry on as I had so many hours involved. The stern doors - the big problem, now solved.
I had to completely destroy and rip out the stern decking and the starboard hangar (the one with the boom in ) to reach the stepper motors. The back end of the ship is at the moment a complete mess and needs some major work to put right. I have to remake the deck and all the support structure, remake the hangar deck and remount all the oil boom and its operating mechanism. I'll get on with that this week.
Couple of bonuses to this, I wasn't really happy with the hangar deck, I found out on the real craft it is a metal grid to allow oil spill to drain through to a catch tray and tank underneath, so I can rectify that. I had made a mistake on the main deck, not noticible unless you were familiar with the real ship so I can correct that as well.
OK so what was the problem with the stepper motors?? Two things, first when I glued down the main deck, some drips of pva glue had dropped onto the screw shaft. When they had dried it was impossible for the travelling carrier on the screw shaft to move along it, so the motors were just jittering. Secondly the motors were small so although they worked well on the work bench, they really suffered from a lack of torque when having a plastic door hung off the end of them - good job I changed out the brass doors for plastic!
So the ongoing problem to solve this week so I can reassemble everything. The door mechanisms. Instead of having nice controllable steppers, I'm thinking of using a couple of servo's with an extended arm, not too sure yet, it could be that the arm will need a centre pivot, with the door at one end and a servo at the other. Bench top trials to commence tomorrow. So after a couple of weeks of ignoring the problem and doing other stuff on the build, I will complete this part and do a full photo update next weekend hopefully.
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Nice one Brian I'm glad that you have carried on as this is a cracking build - looking forward to your photos :-))
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Great to know you're going to carry on with this one, especially in view of the efforts to date, hope you get things sorted and get back on track - looking forward to it O0
Regards,
Ray.
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Hello Brian
glad to hear you are caring on . Have you though about using aircraft snakes so you can place the actuator some were serviceable.
If you are going for servos it is very easy to mod them for 180deg trow
John
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cheers for the support guys.
John I could modify the servo's but using a arduino for the functions on the boat there really is no need. You can set it to park and begin its sweep at 0degrees (really about 4 or otherwise it jitters) and end anywhere up to 180 degrees ( again really about 176)
This few degrees less at each end of the travel I have found during testing is due to servo jitter. If it gets to 0 or 180 and slight play in the mechanism means it drops back slightly. The arduino doesn't know the cause, it just knows the servo is not at 0 or 180, so keeps sending the signal to get it there, causing the servo to jitter. By giving a couple of degrees at each end the problem is solved. Of course if you choose any increment between those figures to use, say 25 and 120 degrees, there is no problem at all, its just the end stops of the servo that messes up.
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Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for a month or a few weeks just to settle your frustration and let the little grey cells formulate a plan of action. That's why I reckon having an easy project as well as a long term one is good to swap between. It's not always cost effective but then neither is dumping hours of work and many pounds of materials especially as you have such a challenge getting some items.
Good on you Brian. I look forward to your updates as this is a lovely build and will look awesome when completed :-))
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Bummer you had to rip her apart, but also glad that you decided to carry on. Would have been a pity to let it go.
One step after the other. Or as Kansas would say: "Carry on my wayward son, for there'll be peace when you are done" ok2
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Kansas, now there's a blast from the past! always been a Skynyrd fan myself O0
Anyway I looked back at my last post and realised I never explained the servo thing simply. So here is a diagram. On the left your normal servo, you plug it in to the receiver port and it centres to 0, you move the stick on the Tx and it swings to 90 degrees either direction.
Now, if you take that servo and plug it into an arduino instead you get more control over it. The arduino sees the servo as a constant movement, no centre position (unless you want it to) It can begin at the 0 point and finish at 180 degrees, or start and finish at any chosen degree in between these figures. On startup, it does not go to the centre position as per the normal servo, no, it always begins at the point programmed into the arduino.
Hope that makes that point clearer!
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Brian a normal servo only moves 90 deg total unless you mod it
John
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Brian a normal servo only moves 90 deg total unless you mod it
John
Sorry John they don't, all servo's swing through an arc of 180 degrees in total - 90 degrees each side of centre or parked position. Here are 3 photos of a SG90 servo which is representative of all servo's. First shows it all the way to the left, 2nd is in the 'off or park' position which is where it centres when switched on by the receiver. The 3rd is all the way to the right. This corresponds with your stick position, centre is off, push to the left servo moves all the way to left, push right and similar.
All standard servo's move through a complete half circle, which is 180 degrees, some like sail servo's are continuous.
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If you are getting 180 degree movement from a standard servo then you are sending it a signal outside of the normal 1000 to 2000 millsecond pulse rate. Just checked two servos with a servo tester and got around 100 degrees movement over this pulse range. I couldn't get 180 degrees as the tester only went from 900 to 2100 ms . You must be sending from below 500 and above 2500 ms pulses. The only way I can see to get 180 degree movement is to use a retract servo (unfortunately these tend not to be proportional but only go to their end points) or use a programmable digital servo where you can program the end points for greater movement.
Jim
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Brian
buy an normal servo and plug it in to a RX and you get about 90 deg throw . Add two resistors to the wires coming from the edge of the pot say 1.8 to 2.6k and you will get about 170 deg . you may have to remove a mechanical stop.
You can get these devices that stretch the signal and sit in line on the servo lead but i have never seen them. You can buy a 180 deg servo .
John
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OK I've done some testing today.
Servo's as my photos above show have a full 180 degree travel left centre right. You can do this by moving it manually.
It also has 180 degrees of travel if plugged into one of my arduino's be that a Uno, a Mega or even a Nano.
Then I plugged it into my servo tester and got about 130 degrees give or take. hmmmm.
Then I plugged the same servo into my tx.rx set and got about 90 degrees, even bigger hmmm.
So I deduce that people are being ripped off, not by the servo manufacturers, but by the tx/rx manufacturers. Now it needs a more technical mind then mine to come along and explain why the pwm signal from a tx isn't long enough to give full movement of a servo :embarrassed:
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The problem is that most people want a linear output for their controls. However the servo arm gives a rotary output. When the servo is restricted to around 45 to 50 degrees either side of center then the output from the arm is near enough linear for most people. When you want more movement you will find that the output gets less and less linear until near the position of 85 to 90 degrees from the center the output hardly moves, the control rod moves sideways instead.
So the reason the Tx manufacturers have them set up to only give around 100 or 90 degree total movement is that this suits the vast majority of needs. Normally only retract servo for aircraft undercarriages use 180 degrees and this is because the force on the servo arm at the end of the movement is through the center of the arm and the arm will not move under load. With a normal servo movement the force at the end of the arm can cause it to change position, not a good idea if the maximum movement is locking the wheels up or down.
Jim
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OK lets get rid of some photo's from the last couple of weeks. First the construction before the destruction %% The forward tunnel thrusters have been installed in the tubes.. These were made from abs plumbing pipe for the tubes as per the aft ones, the caps that hold the actual gearbox of the thruster were cut to shape out of a straight connector for the pipe, in other words its a sleeve for joining lengths of the pipe for plumbing purposes, I just cut a couple to form caps that could be bonded on with abs pipe cement.
The motors are brushless outrunners, the two brackets with be interconnected so that they don't turn when in operation, the bracket still has to be fabricated.
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Some more floodlights and 3 spotlights made by casting clear acrylic with 3mm leds inside of them. More lighting on the aft of the winchhouse etc, I was hoping to have all this part finished now, but the next sections will show why not.
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OK now the demoliton, first the bow, as I was having opening mooring doors in the bow, I also had to have an internal deck in case anyone decides to look inside, they would need to see the anchor winches, these were made from parts I cut on the laser machine. However it was all for nothing.
The doors I made in an earlier post, when mounted, the linkage to get them to open fouled on the anchor pockets inside the hull, there was no way to avoid this, no matter how many ways I redid the linkage it would not work. So it left me with the only option but to forget the doors, seal up the openings and put the piece of deck in the spares drawer.
On the other hand I did have success with making the lounge area, I put in seating and tables along with a wall mural :embarrassed: again just in case anyone decides to look through the large windows in the hull, this area has internal lighting as well. I now have 4 of these units made (different purposes) but they can't be bonded in until the hull paint is finished.
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OK the main demo, brought about by the stern doors not operating.
Once I got it ripped apart the reason for non operation became obvious. When I glued down the top deck with pva, as the deck bedded down the excess pva dripped onto the shafts of the stepper motors, stopping the travelling carrier from moving along its track. {:-{
So first what it looked like, then what it did look like after taking chisels to it. I had to chop my way through a lot of the support structure as well, so its quite a rebuilding excersize. The last photo here shows my solution. Out came the linear steppers and I made up two brass arms to fit onto servo's. Even so the space was limited to get into, so the servo's just got stuck to the hull bottom with a hotglue gun and then liberally coated with the stuff as well. Servo's were not my favoured option because the steppers have so much more control to offer, with regards closing. The servo's not so much even with my arduino.
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So now its rebuilding time for this section. I remade the internal deck the boom sits on. I mentioned previously it was not treadplate but a metal grid so that oil spillage falls through into a catch tank underneath. I have done this using fine mesh stainless grille.
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Lastly more demo. Remember these I made up for the deck that covers this section... Well with the new deck I am cutting and having further studied the photo's I had one side of it incorrect because it followed the cutout I had made to access the daughterboat hangar. So I have redone this section and still have access, but it means yes, these sections of cargo rail no longer fit and have to be remade.
So I'm making a short trip back to the UK, but at least on return I will be in a better position ie warmer here, to get the hull outside and once and for all get it sprayed in its main colours.
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Pleased your still carrying on with the build Brian, it will be worth it in the long run. I think we are all waiting for a bit warmer weather :-))
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AND another in the saga of nothing going right with this build! Yesterday morning began to apply the top coat paint over the fresh primer, something I've done a dozen times before.
This is car primer and Humbrol enamel for the top coat, never have I seen a reaction like this ever! All I can think of is they have changed the formulation of the car primer over here. I might as well have attempted to spray water on it.
I left it and went to have a coffee and decide how best to clean it off. Going back 30 minutes later I didn't have to worry too much. Most of it as can be seen by the runs already forming, had run off the hull and pooled all over the floor, this was in our hobby room (4th bedroom) I sprayed inside because the wife is away and it was cold outside :D
So, with a roll of toilet tissue and a bottle of white spirit I began wiping it all off, 30 minutes later it was as clean as it was getting. Move it all out into the hallway and another 30 minutes and I had the floor clean as well, fortunately having ceramic tiling on all floors meant it was easy to remove. House now stinks of white spirit %% But I have a couple of weeks for it to dissipate before swimbo is back.
Off to our shopping mall now, only 40 miles away to buy some Vallejo acrylics, this was my last build with Humbrol as I had bought the paint months ago for this build. So at some point this next week expect a full new update with paint!!
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Actually Brian I had the same reaction with car primer and humbrol enamel paints doing my Smit Rotterdam, like you I have to wipe it all off a quick light sanding and started again I had used a can of alloy wheel grey primer and can only assume it’s like an etch primer and effected the enamel the second time I used Halfords red oxide doing the whole hull in this first the hand painted above the waterline in humbrol enamel and was fine even then sprayed over the whole lot with humbrol clear Matt varnish and that was also ok
So I can only assume that it was some kind of etch primer maybe something Stavros can confirm
Hope you sort it 👍
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Yes still weird reaction, never seen the like before except for maybe tie die paint floating on water :embarrassed: I'm now back after the 80 mile jaunt, 40 there and back :(( its not fun living out in the sticks when you want something. Going to have a coffee then give it all a rub down with some 600 wet and dry before having a go with the Vallejo acrylics. The lower hull with red oxide is fine so its just a case of re-masking that and making some new stencils for the various hull markings on the laser cutter. Full size spray gun now parked back in the tool room - I bought an adaptor for my new mini gun while I was out, so that will connect to my compressor airline, I wasn't fancying spraying this big a hull with an airbrush!
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Keep my fingers crossed it all goes ok this time Brian :-)) you mentioned somethin there too I've been meaning to by myself for some time an airbrush setup now just to choose one :D
When your done lets have some pictures
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I would have thought it was mold release if you hadn't mentioned you laid down a coat of primer already.
{:-{
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No its not that Umi. It's had several coats of primer since it came out of the mold, round about 5 off the top of my head, various rub downs between them in the last year. This afternoon it got a going over with a scotchbrite pad, then some wet dry 600 grit paper, then a wipe down with a small amount of panel wipe. Sunday will tell whether I still get a reaction using acrylics rather than the Humbrol enamels.
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was it a Humbrol enamel spray can you used ?
John
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No John, it was one of the midi tinlets (30ml?) along with their enamel thinners as the diluent, done to a ratio of 60 paint 40 thinner, so I can't even say that it was over thinned either - I always err on the thick side and add extra diluent if needed.
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At a guess .
Halfords paints are all acrylic unless other wise stated on the can .
The thiners for the enamel most problem cause the problem, If you had painted it neat Humbrol chances are it would have been ok . Say that never seen a reaction like that .
John
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Well done for getting the paint off so quickly Brian it probably saved you loads more work. I too have never seen a reaction like that its looks like oil on water its that bad. I hope the new acrylics are ok.
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Bummer! I find liberal quantities of beer often helps in these situations.
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Never seen that kind of reaction very odd.........Strange to have a reaction with enamel going over an aerosol....will try some test panels with some Humbrol enamel tomorrow...................I presume it is the new acrylic humbol we are talking about....if so ill have to buy a tinlet to experiment.
MMM Having re read the previous postings something is bugging me here BIG TIME....you say you have sprayed it in the spare bedroom,interesting.
Does your wife do her hair in there.
Does your wife spray perfume.
Do YOU wear any deoderant.
Just a THOUGHT
Could well be a silicone contaminant of some form
Dave
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Thanks for all the replies.
Stavros - the room isn't used for anything other than my modelling and my wife painting watercolours or storing her crochet/knitting stuff. However this might be a possibility as to what has happened.........
The car primer, I won't call it Halfords, it isn't - its a proprietry brand to Spain just like Holts is in the UK. However I sprayed the rattle cans on thursday evening, room was pre heated into the 70's so it was warm, but then the temp was turned off leaving ambient room temp. I'm just wondering whether when I sprayed the Humbrol the next morning, whether the primer had finished curing or not. It was dry to the touch, but you never know! The Humbrol is the enamel (used to be oil based in years gone by) thinned with their own enamel thinner although turps or white spirit could be used, it is not Humbrol acrylics.
I do have some left in the rattle cans, I might do a couple of test panels later today, 1 with the white primer and 1 with the red oxide and see what happens a second time.
I already know the red oxide was fine with the Humbrol, it covered it perfectly with no runs, even coverage etc. So a side by side test on some A4 plasticard sheet, spray each with the primers, leave to set up a few hours and then spray the Humbrol on both, see what happens then.
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Had a similar situation a few years ago, just about tore what out little hair I had. This job ended up with 14 coats of paint rubbed down between them and still had holes appearing as if by magic. It turned out to be WD40 in the workshop. That product is now banned inside, use only outside, nemesis
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I've not run any test panels. However I think it may be down to the primer not being cured. This morning I went to peel off the masking tape and Frisk film. The masking tape is Tamiya which if anyone uses it will know it is very low tack for plastic modelling. Frisk film is the same sort of stuff in sheet form - you use it for cutting stencils and then spray before peeling off, again very low tack.
Anyway it was more of a struggle to get the masking off and when it came away it left behind the sticky residue, which I had to remove with a rag and white spirit. SO I think it was not cured properly, the diluents in the car primer were still active even though the paint felt dry. Obviously turning off the heat, the room chilled down too far for the paint to dry. Heating has been on in that room all day now, so hopefully tomorrow will yield better results - we shall see.
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Regarding Turpentine, go careful as I used to use it to thin varnish and washes when finishing models and found it wrinkled the vellejo acrylics underneath and so went over to using white spirit.
Proper turps is quite potent despite smelling nice %%
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Shall we do an update? ooooh yes lets O0
OK this is just a paint update as its taken me since the last time to sort out the mess. Following on from that cleanup on my last post, I went ahead and used Vallejo acrylic instead of Humbrol - almost the same result, so a second clean up and a sit back and think about it all.
I retrieved the can of primer from my tool room and the problem was obvious. Some prat of a customer had swapped tops on the spray can! I had pulled it out of the rack marked primera blanco (rough translation white primer, it is literally first white) the cap was stamped primera blanco, but the can itself showed a cycle - hmmm paint for bikes, dunno if it still is but that used to be polychromatic which doesn't like playing with other types. I took it back to the shop and received the ususal response - a shrug of the shoulders. I bought another can (no replacements here! rubbed down completely the white on the hull and re-primed.
Not taking chances this time, I brush painted the stern with Vallejo acrylic and left it to dry - result! So I brushed the rest of the hull blue, allowed it to dry overnight then rubbed it down again before several spray coats over the top to level things out. Then on to the difficult bits %) %)
All the hull lettering and marking I cut stencils on my laser cutter into low tack film, sprayed those on then the decals that say eni norge which were coloured on a white background, I made using decal paper and an ordinary inkjet colour printer. Lastly the hull depth markings which were too small and fiddly to do I used commercially available sticky decals. I don't really like these as the thickness of the vinyl is difficult to bury under clearcoat. Last time I used them the ship had 10 coats of clear on it and the edges of the decals were still discernible, still, needs must.
So that's it for now except to show the photo's. Next update the build continues. Oh lastly, any white parts on the superstructure need redoing, there are several parts that have blue overspray - poor masking! So these will also be done next update as well.
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New stern decking and railing shown here along with if you can just make it out, the signage attached to the inboard rail of the superstructure, showing the colours and designation for the various hose connections for liquid cargo, ie barites, potable water, diesel etc etc.
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Looking very nice Brian :-)) I’ve never used Vallejo acrylics are they hard wearing or do you need to clear coat them to make them more durable?
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They are primarily marketed for plastic scale models, shown in dioramas and for table top wargames etc. In those instances they are clearcoated with acrylic clearcoat for that specific purpose - and are supposed to be waterproof. However I prefer to make doubly sure and clearcoat with an enamel polyurthane. I would prefer not to find out they are only water resistant and not waterproof! %%
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That looks stunning, congratulations!
You have really worked hard to get here, and now it pays off.
Can't wait to see the rest.
Hama
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Vellejo has a period during curing when they are a bit like vinyl and can be damaged but do cure our after a few days especially in warm conditions. Definitly do as Brian suggested and give any areas that may get damaged such as hull sides or masts etc a good coat of gloss varnish. You can dust a coat of matt over the top once dried to remove sheen.
Looking fabulous Brian! I like the blue very much. I am glad you found your paint problem and rectified it, and also the rebuild of the superstructure rear is good. I would not have known you had to tear it out furiously to get to annoying things to rebuild.
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Well done Brian,
The model is looking great. 8) 8) 8)
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Excellent work on the hull markings, well done all round.
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looking really good Brian :-))
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Nice work!
Can you share what kind/brand of clear coat you are using over the acrylic paint please 😀
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Yes it's no secret. Normally this would get a satin clearcoat of ordinary Humbrol Clear enamel( dunno if you have Humbrol where you are, but its a model specific solvent based paint system)
However as I have used Vallejo acrylics on this ship, Vallejo recommend not using any other paint system directly on to their paint until it is sealed with their varnishes, gloss, satin or matt (satin is called semi gloss in the USA) first. However they have recently begun to replace their varnishes with polyurethane clears for extra hardness or wear resistance. So I am thinking of using just this new polyurethane clear entirely. According to the info on their website it is water based but best diluted for spraying purposes with their own make acrylic diluent. Clean up afterwards done with tap water.
I'm more and more liking the Vallejo system (rapidly replacing my Humbrol enamels), the paints are heavy in pigment so cover well, they dry fast so allowing second or third coats or alternate colours to be overpainted in 20-30 minutes - in some cases (warm conditions) even just a few minutes. No smell and any clean up is done with water. They can be diluted with water, but then coverage can be sketchy - much better to use their own thinner, then coverage on plastics or grp is fine.
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Ok, thanks for the information! Yes we do have Humbrol paint in Canada. When using Humbrol paint or clear coat, do you spray it with an airbrush?
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I can definitely second Brian's comments about Vellejo. I have always been a worry wart and undercoated in Humbrol enamels on wargames models to get a good key coat in between the slightly soft pewter and the acrylic which may go on thin in places (My rubbish bottle shaking %) ) but it does have good pigment content.
I have only had a slight coverage problem with yellow (common with many yellows in many forms), but I learnt a tip from a figure painter for that so even that is cured.
With Vellejo, I have found the following:
1. The pigment settles and so, before use give it a blooming good shake. You will tell when the pigment is moving because the sound changes from a watery 'sloshy' sound, to a lumpier sound. Keep at it for a while longer.
2. Storing the bottles upside down is a good idea as well, to put the pigment near the nozzle, so even if you have shaken the bottle for Britain (or your nation :embarrassed: ) and it hasn't completely mixed, you will bet paint and not carrier fluid.
3. The nozzle will bet clogged after a while and so, keep a needle or length of wire handy. I use the former or a piece of broken piercing saw blade handy for this job depending on which I have dropped into the maelstrom that is my bench.
3a. After a couple of years, the paint will start to go off, but the contents can still be used but you will have to remove cruddy paint from the whole nozzle piece. Remove the nozzle piece with a screwdriver and using an old pair of pointy tweezers, pull the piece of paint gunk out and dispose of. The lid will also benefit from periodic paint removal as this goes rubbery. Cleaning the lid and nozzle will reduce the latter complaint.
As a storage system, the Dropper bottle is good. I have never had a lid stuck on by old dry paint, I have never had the lid on my tinlet pop back up again because of excess paint build up, or the paint go dry prematurely.
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Ok, thanks for the information! Yes we do have Humbrol paint in Canada. When using Humbrol paint or clear coat, do you spray it with an airbrush?
All 3 methods depending on area to be covered. I use brush, airbrush and even what is known as a minigun - a crossover between airbrush and small paint gun, it has a cup size of 150ml. This can be used with the small air compressor that I have for the airbrush, but it is happier with the supply from my 100 litre compressor i.e the compressor is not always constantly cycling.
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That is good painting information, thanks guys. The painting process of my model boats as always been nerve racking. Most of the time I get weird reaction between paints (rattle cans) eventhough I thoroughly follow the instructions and stick to one brand of spray paint. The result is always a surprise! The worst and most common reaction I get is the orange peel effect or paint wrinkle. If only we could paint our models with acrylic paints, those problems would not exist anymore! I'm wondering if a acrylic polyurethane clear coat would be durable and waterproof enough for the hull?
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Photo heavy update :}
During the destruction that happened to the stern deck, I managed to also damage one of the fire monitor covers. So decided to remake them. This is my version of vac forming!
First photo shows a plug made to the shape of the cover I need, then a slightly larger hole in a piece of ply. A piece of plasticard of suitable thickness, this was 0.75mm over the hole and held in place with some masking tape. Gently play a flame over the plastic (blowlamp on low) then quickly press the plug into the plastic, pushing it into the hole. Two new monitor covers made and ready to glue in place.
The next photo shows them attached and repainted....
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Next up more stanchions to be made. Another simple jig, self explanatory, a back rail to run the material against, in this case strips of 3mm x 0.3mm brass sheet. This is clamped to the drill press and the press lowered so that the drill bit touches the jig, then mark of 4mm from this along the fence, raise the press and then push a dressmakers pin into the mark.
As can be seen, the brass is then pushed against the pin and a hole drilled, the brass is raised and the hole is dropped over the pin, next hole is drilled etc etc. Each hole is always 4mm from the next hole ensuring evenness. Once a strip is done the stanchions are cut to length and then filed to finish, eventually they will be filed down to 1.5mm thickness and 15mm length.
By the way the drill bit that can be see, forget mini drills that can be bought they go blunt quickly and tend to flex way too much. I use pcb drills for anything under a mm, in this case the drill was 0.75mm. The only drawback with them is that they can be too stiff and do not like any flex whatsover or they snap!
So far I have made 170 stanchions with another 240 to go for around the hotel section (superstructure - but called a hotel by offshore workers) The second photo shows the stanchions in place on the stern. I prefer brass and brass wire so they can be soldered together, once bonded into the deck they can take a fair amount of abuse without suffering too much irreparable damage.
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OK were on a roll, I have two large bitts to make, so cut those from brass tube and some plate, one each goes port and starboard half way along the hull. Assembled they were soldered together and then using a couple of brass pins with the head removed, they were epoxied to the side walkways.
By the way, to illustrate some of these points, the photos are out of sequence if anyone was wondering.
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Because the stern is almost finished (I'll come back to it in a moment) I began on the side cargo rails, The stanchions for these were made from plastruct I beam because I couldn't source any brass to the same dimensions. Same process as the brass stanchions using a jig to drill the holes in the plastic. I did make one concession here, instead of having 4 rails they only have 3. Due to the thickness of the rails, I thought they would look too crowded with 4.
Also included here is the companionway down from the stern deck to the starboard walkway.
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Back to the stern deck. I remade the two tugger winches as I was never really happy with the originals. I must source some small handwheels! I made the two brake wheels on these, they are 4mm diameter and were a nightmare to add the 4 spokes into the centres.
I also made the large hawse port, the small one and the set of roller fairleads on the stern, the fairleads are brass tube, the large hawseport was carved from balsa and then sealed and smoothed, the small one was made in a similar fashion to the fire monitor covers, being pressed into hot plastic with a suitable plug.
The last two photos show the finished pristine stern deck, ready to start adding details to...coming right up!
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First up for detailing a fire hose box and stand pipe, shown here attached to the railing on the starboard side. Simply just a square of plasticard laminated to give 3mm thickness and the standpipe bent from 2mm rod and then painted. The marking on the box shows a coiled hose and nozzle, copied from a photo.
Next up more fabricating of parts. My take on life rings, made from two 5mm washers epoxied together which just about give the right size for this scale. Epoxied together rather than superglued because the epoxy will squeeze out the edges and fill any voids in the washer faces. As they are punched out of sheet, washers are never flat but have a slight dish to them. Just get the dished shape and the hollow on the internal faces.
The holder was made up from 0.25mm brass wire and very lightly soldered into the T shape, then bent around the washers and superglued to them. All was then painted white before the washers were overcoated in red. Two can so far be seen on the railings.
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Almost done now.
First is the overall view of the stern deck almost finished. On the left side of the wood deck part way up is a small black bitt, No idea why its black and not grey as per all the other fittings, but as I am following photos of the full size ship, it is black just the same.
On the port side I have another life ring, 3 goosneck vents (not shown here) and these two grey cabinets. I again have no idea what they contain, the photo's I have are really not clear about them.
The last two photos show the port side down companionway, this is an internal stair rather than the external one as on the starboard side. Just one or two more small details to add now and the stern is finished. This week I'll be finishing the rails on the starboard side before commencing the port side. Then its on to exciting stuff and the beginning of the superstructure - sorry should have said hotel section %) :}
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Ooops, forgot to include this jig photo in post 201.....
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You recovered that and then some Brian! Lovely work.
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Loving the handrail work. Particularly the lifebelt holders, I can't seem to get them that neat. Very envious!
Rich
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Bit of an update as I've jumped forward a bit waiting for parts to come.
First up is a photo of the control board just for the lighting system - this is now in the junk pile! I was never happy making this up on strip board, I have the copper clad board for making a true circuit board but cannot get the ferric chloride to do the etching over here. I have found a place online that will make boards to yor own design if you provide the patterning. So I have been working overtime with Fritzing design program to get what I need as a file to send off to them. So my new design instead of just incorporating the lighting, will also have onboard Nano boards for the other working operations as well, that means possibly 4 arduino nanos talking to each other via the I2C protocol and using a signal from the r/c reciever. -- We'll see %%
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Next up I needed 6 liferaft pods, outlets were asking silly money for what is basically a lump of plastic tube. So I made just the one and have begun to cast them in resin. Made with a piece of dowel and the banding made with plastic offcuts.
I began making the superstructure and have been at this for weeks now. It is a nightmare of compound mitres and opposing compound mitres. I made it up in card to make sure I had the mitre angles correct, then I cut it in plywood, again with many adjustments. Then when this was correct, clad the outside and inside of the ply with plasticard to get the smooth steel finish. The photos show the lower part of the superstructure walls, windows still to be cut and added.
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These next show the beginnings of the forward control desk. Its also shown in primer to see where it needs trimming and more sanding for a smooth finish, also the base of the bridge with the laminate flooring represented. The desk has 6 cutouts for desk monitors, these are backlit with optical fibre so the screens which are filled with waterclear resin light up.
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Next up is the starboard side chart table and computer desk, showing a couple monitors, radio equipment and printers and telephones, with under desk chart drawers. Nothing much to be said about this, made up from various plasticard. All of this may or may not be visible when the bridge roof is in place, I'm hedging my bets as the windows in the bridge are quite large.
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So the last up is the aft conning desks for control of the ship when the workdeck is in use. This time the desk monitors were seperate units and not built in which presented new problems. I made them up from plastic H beam, sanded down two of the legs to form a U shape and then blocked off the ends to form shallow boxes. Mounted these on pillars and glued to the desks. I couldn't feed these with optical fibre so went with surface mount ultra small leds.
But being leds these were superbright, so instead of the normal 220 ohm ballasting resistor, I upped it to a 1k and still too bright. I eventually settled on 4K7 resistors and this was fine. In fact it introduced a little flicker to the leds which is no bad thing because the screens flicker like the real thing might when viewed at a distance. You can see the size of the leds there is one to the right on the ruler, just above the '7' try soldering wires to those! I managed by using a magnifying head set complete with 3 lenses giving me 30 times magnification.
The last photo is a crewman at 1:72 (24mm) holding a led in his hand, hmmmmm! %) No, just no! I am not going to have him hold a torch :}
So that is it for now, next update I should be back on track and finishing off the hull and putting the superstructure to one side again.
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Bit of an update as I've jumped forward a bit waiting for parts to come.
First up is a photo of the control board just for the lighting system - this is now in the junk pile! I was never happy making this up on strip board, I have the copper clad board for making a true circuit board but cannot get the ferric chloride to do the etching over here. I have found a place online that will make boards to yor own design if you provide the patterning. So I have been working overtime with Fritzing design program to get what I need as a file to send off to them. So my new design instead of just incorporating the lighting, will also have onboard Nano boards for the other working operations as well, that means possibly 4 arduino nanos talking to each other via the I2C protocol and using a signal from the r/c reciever. -- We'll see %%
Looking impressive Brian - have you powered it up yet!!!
Could not see if you had external pullup resistors on the i2c lines - you will need them!
C-3PO
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I had the board above working threepio on manual switching ie a button switch. I haven't yet got them connected via i2c as I am still working on the total layout of the board and nano connections. I hate strip board with a vengeance :D ok for simple stuff but when it gets technical, there is just no way to jump lines, hence the amount of wiring you can see.
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Brian,
I have nothing against stripboard apart from the fact that solder seems to have an affinity for making friends with the neighbouring track - I find myself inspecting every inch with a high power magnifying glass
Love the work consoles you have made
Re resisitors have a look at this - https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/i2c/i2c-at-the-hardware-level
C-3PO
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I cannot believe that LEDs that small could be made until you showed them here! Don't sneeze whatever you do {:-{
Your interior is splendid. I like the attention to detail such as having different screens and things like telephones.
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This is an amazing build to follow, I'm enjoying it very much! And those LEDs are tiny :o
Keep the pictures coming! :-))
Hama
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Half an update, if any of you have missed other posts, I have been without my laser cutter and my laptop for quite a few weeks now, which has rendered modelling to almost nil.
I'll just post the photo's of what I have got done in the meantime, I found I had trouble lifting the work deck for access with it being dropped into the hull as it is. After pondering on best options, I decided on some deck furniture/clutter to help out. All of the items shown are glued to the deck with the exception of the most forward of the containers, these have been glued and screwed from the underside. This means I can grab a hold of these and pull the entire deck out easily.
All the containers have been cast in resin then painted and decals added, the skips were built from plasticard, and the drill pipe is brass tubing. I will need to 'dirty' this deck clutter up,but that is for a later date.
Not sure whether these have been on before, but I finished the life raft pods, the side rails and the railing around the rear of the deck above the winch house.
Nothing more to add at this point, the next update I'll be back with a motor drive update, some more on the wheelhouse and of course the remaining deck cranes.
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:-))
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:D
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Very impressive! :-))
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The deck clutter is very nice. The skips are a really interesting addition especially with the scrap inside.
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OK lets have a bit more, first up the two main drives, rated to 1.75 horsepower, so almost 4 horsepower should be more than enough to push her along! There is an old 540 in the photo to give a idea of package size and power available, they are roughly mounted to a piece of aluminium here so I could take all the measurements I needed so that I can make up proper support that will both hold the motors and provide bearing housings for the ends of the shafts. The large pulleys will be spinning at 3800rpm at full throttle and that is a lot of weight to be subject to centrifugal force.
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Next up,I have spent quite a few hours recently building these two booms, small one goes port side and larger to the starboard. I have also finished the stern boom by adding the decals to it. All scratchbuilt from plasticard, and brass tubing, the decals printed on to decal paper on the printer.
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I have also spent a lot of time tidying up the wiring of which so far there is miles and miles of (ok slight exaggeration) Also another 3 distribution boards for the bridge module, one board has 20 resistors just for the outside fluorescent lights, before we get to mast lights towing lights internal bridge lighting etc.
Also I have now got the main structure of the bridge complete, a total nightmare of intersecting compound mitres, which showed up another problem, in the second photo, you can see the deck it sits on has for some reason sagged! even though it has plenty of support underneath, you can see a big gap between deck and bridge.
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SO as this part was more or less sorted, I turned back to the internal fittings, studying the photos, I realised I had left out a desk that also contained a sink unit, there was a coffee machine as well, but I left that out %% One thing that the camera does show up especially as I use its macro facilty to get these close up is the unevenness of the paint, fortunately that really isn't visible with the naked eye and once the roof is one, you'll have to look closely through the windows to even see these details. Haing said that there are the internal frames to add with the glass so the roughness around the frames will dissapear behind that.
The roof which I am working on at the moment is another nightmare, it has compound angles as you would expect, but each of those 'wings' have a curved area from aft to front hmmmm! Again another problem was painting, its in primer on the outside, and not shown here, has its finished paint as well. I am having to paint in sections, I can't paint the outside if the glass is added, and I can't paint the outside if the roof is on because I can't put the glass in, So its going together piecemeal.
Well thats it for now, maybe just maybe the next update and the roof will be on.
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She gets better and better Brian. I love the cranes and the effort you have put into the bridge interior is consistent with the rest of your challenging build :-)) :-))
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I second that. Awesome work, those cranes are a piece of art! O0
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Great work on the cranes. I think you're getting the hang of it.
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Great build Brian,rather you than me,that bridge is a geometrical nightmare :o
Regards
Nigel
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A short update this time around. Just to show the state of play with the bridge. First photograph, hmmmm! A total of 39 resistors on stripboard here, for a total of 39 individual led's required in and around the bridge and up the mast as well as navigation lights. Why so many? Simple, if a led or its resistor or even individual wire fails, it takes out one led. Once you start daisychaining leds in groups of 2/3 or 4, if one fails you lose the full chain of 2/3/4 lights. As the majority of these are all the same and all come on together in groups, there really is no need for individual wire colours - hence so many grey or green wires, green for 20 external fluorescents, grey for mast etc etc.
Now on to the nicer photos....
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Beginning to populate the bridge with its furniture, control desks added etc etc. The conning position chairs were made from seating from the cars I destroyed many many posts ago!
Stairwell is in place along with other stuff that I only realised was there when I re-studied the photos I have. So far the kitchen sink and tap, a bookcase with books a couple more printers and a office chair
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The two rear conning chair have large arms attached that contain the dp controls and also small monitor screens - these I was not stupid enough to try and illuminate, I settled fro fabricating the arms and adding facsimile screens.
So to finish with, and just to put these things into perspective, the last couple of photo's also have a cocktail stick/toothpick in the photo to show a sense of scale! Oh yes, all of this will only be seen by the eagle eyed viewer who peers through the windows once finished %%
The bridge roof is ready to be added but I need to add some crew in here, I'll be on that this weekend and then the mammoth task of adding all the lights to the ends of those wires.
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That's just awesome! The toothpick looks like a giant sequoia tree next to that tiny chair (https://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/g015.gif)
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Your detailing of the bridge is well above and beyond the call of duty. I love the quirky little details that show it has been lived in such as the dining chair :-) That is a lot of bridge for a ship with lots of stuff going on outside but I suppose some jobs require lots of admin and meetings etc.
Cool :-))
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Above and beyond Ian :D If you look at the large black laser printer (photo 8231) its got a ream of paper at the bottom, and those desks now have a couple of sheets of paper scattered on them to give that 'lived in' look you mention {-) I did try to make transparent decals for the monitor screens that light up, but the decals being 8mm by 6mm in size was ok but the dials etc on the decals were only about .3mm in size, so I never bothered - a couple spots of marker pen will suffice.
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I agree with setting a limit for detailing, as like you say, not everything will be seen. I reckon the stationary will show up though!
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Lets start with the searchlights. Once again these were cast using waterclear resin with an led embedded. Simply made a mould with plasticene, pushed a piece of dowel of suitable diameter into it, then taking the led splayed out the legs and pushed down into the hollow - the led legs slice into the plasticene and stick out each side. Mix up the resin and pour then leave for 12 hours, when cured bending the legs around make a good facsimile of the searchlight bracket.
These are now affixed to the bridge roof and I'll post a photo on the next update.
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The crew are now having a look around their potential new home. In the past I've used Airfix 1:72 figures but they always looked out of proportion. This time around I got hold of some Revell U boat crew to the same scale 1:72, they are actually 4 mm taller and more 'robust' I guess the airfix ones are really closer to 1:85 to match the OO railways stuff.
With a little scalpel work to remove hats / helmets and other stuff, these Revell figures although WW2 look at this scale like modern ship crew. But they do take some painting at this size!
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The main focus of attention for the last 2 weeks and forseeable time to come is the main mast assembly, its about 1/3rd built in these photos and some of it is a nightmare. I've had to make a concession to reality and pushed a drive rod up through them to drive the radar assembly's but as the whole array is matt black when finished it should fade into the background. The drive for the radars has been made with gears from my parts bin, although not trouble free, I had it all assembled only for them to stop turning. Being a nylon/delrin material they cannot be glued to the shafts, usually a press fit, but they were too loose on my shafts and didn't stay attached. I had to cross drill the shafts and then add a dowel pin into a groove I cut in the gears.
Gear ratios were calculated to give as close as I could get to 30 rpm for one array and 40 rpm for the upper array The motor is rated at 5rpm.
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Obviously still at a very rough stage at the moment, but I am having to add wiring in as I go and on the aft side of the mast you can already see 4 of the floodlights already in situ. The radar array drive motor and all that wiring can also be seen underneath. For now I have to add more framework and wiring to the outside for the towing light array and the actual pole mast with its mooring light at the top. Maybe next time this unit will be complete and totally wired into the bridge roof - hmmmm.
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Great work Brian fiddly but worth it.
Sackable offence, leaning on guardrails
coming up T'umber :D
Ned
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A fresh update and it is a continuation of where the last left off, the structure above the bridge. The pictures tell the story,just loads of detailing added, Railings I have had to superglue rather than soft solder my preferred method. Superglued because they had to be done in situ and the heat would have melted the plastic :((
Towing lights have been added and not as per the real ship as I couldn't run the wiring inside that 'ladder' part and then attach the leds to it, so I made a framework to hold them. I'm not happy with the result but its the best I could achieve.
The exhaust pipes have been added, using brass tubing cut and soldered to give the correct angles. The heads of the radar arrays have been added and two ladders, one on the external rear of the structure, this is a brass etch one I had lying around, and inside the structure up to the first platform a plastic one.
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The actual mast has been added again in brass tube with a single led at the top, along with several leds which will actually be painted over and not used as leds on the top wing, I don't actually know what these items are on the real ship but the leds are the same shape and look authentic. I have added 6 aerials, 3 on each side of the first wing, these were made with piano wire obtained from a model shop 50 miles from my home ( I spent £60 that morning!)
So after the myriad of details it was in to primer, as can be seen. I've used tan primer because the main housing part of this is a tan colour, the mast legs and upwards are all black so that will cover the tan primer easy. This is the second coat of primer, rubbed back after the first to remove imperfections and sanding marks along with any bits of filler that I missed. There will be another sand back with 1200 wet and dry before a final primer coat and then on to finish coats. So next update will show the finished item before it gets all the wiring attached to the main bridge and bonded to its roof.......
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A final note on the paint. I now use Vallejo acrylics for everything I paint. However when done I cover it all in Vallejo satin polyurethane varnish, I give that 48 hours to fully cure and then the only time I use it now, a couple coats of Humbrol enamel satin cote clear to double make sure it is all waterproof. The only time I use Hunbrol enamels nowadays. In the photos can be seen the Vallejo paint, for thinning they suggest using water or their own proprietry thinner solution. After seeing a couple of Youtube videos on the subject and needle clogging with airbrushes, I followed their idea with success. I thin the primer 25/75 with their acrylic airbrush flow improver, This is actually only used one or two drops at a time as suggested by Vallejo, but Youtubers along with myself have found that it actually aids flow, stops clogging and reduces paint when used in larger quantities. It works for me, I can only suggest if you use Vallejo to try it for yourselves.
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Hi Brian,
That mast is a model on its own :-))
Fantastic details as everywhere on
The SB :-)) :-)) :-))
Ned
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Thanks for the compliments Ned, it takes some doing to add the detail but the end result is worth it.
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Very worth it Brian. That is a beautiful subassembly. The exhausts look quite steam punk :} There isn't one bit of that which isn't first rate in execution and the figures look good as well. My tip for figures is: The smaller they are less becomes more. Using a wash on the face will add creases and eye shading that we would add with highlights and shading on larger figures, but still looks as effective.
:-)) :-)) :-))
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A question regarding your acrylic paints: Are the fairly opaque?
I've tried some acrylics through my airbrush several times and found that some of the colours tended to 'multiply' with each layer – resulting in a much darker colour than wanted. do brass and fibreglass need any special preparation for the vallejo paints.
And – do you clean the airbrush with the thinners or just with water?
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Very worth it Brian. That is a beautiful subassembly. The exhausts look quite steam punk :} There isn't one bit of that which isn't first rate in execution and the figures look good as well. My tip for figures is: The smaller they are less becomes more. Using a wash on the face will add creases and eye shading that we would add with highlights and shading on larger figures, but still looks as effective.
:-)) :-)) :-))
Certainly figures at this scale are difficult Ian, I'll give your idea of a wash a try, up to now I've been dry brushing highlights, which isn't really effective this small.A question regarding your acrylic paints: Are the fairly opaque?
I've tried some acrylics through my airbrush several times and found that some of the colours tended to 'multiply' with each layer – resulting in a much darker colour than wanted. do brass and fibreglass need any special preparation for the vallejo paints.
And – do you clean the airbrush with the thinners or just with water?
They are very opaque Steve, when brushed they cover in one coat much better than the alternative Humbrol enamels which seem to have lost pigment over the last few years. When airbrushed usually one sometimes two applications is more than enough with most of the colour range, but yellows are difficult, white is easy. For anything a primer is a must to get them to adhere and stay stuck! The tan you see here is their 'Desert Sand' primer, it comes in various colours, black, grey, white and several colours. It is a water based polyurethane. They suggest 24 hour curing period to allow proper adhesion to metals and plastics - I have in the past cut corners and tried after 4 hours but it peels off, so 24 hours it is. All I do for preparation is what should normally be done, scuff the surface with a 1000 grit wet/dry paper than wipe over, I use methylated spirit so it evaporates quickly.
As I mentioned the one drawback is they are water resistant when dry, not waterproof. So when the job is finished I spray their polyurthane satin clear over to seal the paint, leave that for 24 hours and then use the only Humbrol product in my collection now - Satin Cote clear enamel so that it is completely waterproof. You could use Tamiya or Testors or one of the other enamels as a clear coat, its just that Humbrol is the only enamel available to me.
AS A FOOTNOTE.... Vallejo do several paint ranges, ModelAir which is formulated for direct airbrushing, I can't get on with this at all. ModelColor which is intended for brushing, but with dilution can be airbrushed, this is my go to paint but you have to experiment with dilution depending on how hot it is where you reside! Then ModelPremium, this is their top of the line paint intended for airbrushing only, it is said to have superior pigments giving great colour coverage, I've yet to try this one so can't comment on it.
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A drybrush over the wash may well add more depth still! I think the figures do look pretty good as they are though.
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The actual mast has been added again in brass tube with a single led at the top, along with several leds which will actually be painted over and not used as leds on the top wing
...possibly "Fleet" and various DGPS / GMDSS type antennas if it's like what I've dealt with before. If I can feed your obsession there should perheps be a laser positioning lantern (fanbeam if they still use it these days rather than rent it each time) also plenty of CCTV cameras.
Your depiction of the bridge is brilliant. May I add one thing? I assume the real vessel would have "clear view" connonotation acording to DNV / Loyds etc. That means a panoramic view all aroud the bridge. My experience is the first thing the guys organise of their own devices on DSV's and some offshore vessels is a very heavy set of black-out curtains separating the front and aft halfs of the bridge. When your sailing out, light and reflections from the back are a big distraction, particularly when pilot onboard. When you're on DP everything is open of course.
...I wouldn't put too many people on deck also. You'd be surprised how few folk these days man the vessels. And I was shocked when I was offshore on DSV'sjust how few folk inside were interested in getting "fresh air" during their tours. Most folk never went on-deck in a 30 day tour -captain only comes out on the bridge wings pretty much when port calls require dockings! -6-8 riggers / A/B's on the back deck, that's probably about it.
Watching in envy,
Rich
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Cheers for the answers Rich. The blackout curtains can be seen in this photo of the actual ships bridge, I decided not to add them on the model, the windows being 1:72 means its likely most won't even see the inside as they are only 20mm or so! I only add the crew in strategic places as people can relate to them when considering the overall size of the model compared to real life, but I take on board what you say!
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Ooohhh 28 thousand views - lets do a quick update to celebrate :embarrassed:
The electronics/motor room and mast assembly is now complete and painted. The paint has been oversprayed with Vallejo acrylic varnish and then a couple of coats of Humbrol clear enamel just to make sure it is waterproofed! SO the first photos are of the finished article. All the floodlights are in place, but until the wiring is connected I won't know if there is enough paint on the castings to make them light tight or if I will have to do some touching up on them.
I oversprayed the exhausts, originally I had done them in metal cote steel, too dark, then I oversprayed those in silver, this was light enough but still didn't match the photos I had, The originals are a kind of burn't stainless steel colour, so I gave them a light coat of metal cote gold, this is as close as I could get.
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The bridge is in final paint but still needs several more coats of Humbrol clear to seal it all. It also still needs all the handrail and other 'accoutrements' adding to it once the mast assembly has been bonded in place. The windows in these photos are covered in liquid mask which is a silicone solution, paint it on and let it dry and then paint. Once the paint is dry it just peels off, supposedly leaving a clean edge, we'll see how much needs to be touched up with paint when it comes off, for now it is there until the full assembly is done.
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Assemble and glue into place Part A, the electronics/motor room and mast assembly on to the roof of the bridge structure Part B......
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Hmmm. only after all the wiring has been soldered together and tested :}
Which is the point I am at now. So next update hopefully will include photos of the lights working etc etc, but to give some context of the entire wiring upto now....there are so far 30 Floodlights, 4 floodlights in the various hangar spaces, 41 fluourescent lights - I could add another 20 but I'm not a masochist - honest :embarrassed: 14 optical fibres to the bridge and 3 searchlights. Should be lit up like a xmas tree when its all finished...
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The exhausts look realistic Brian. There is an implied hot metal look to them and the soot looks just right.
Congratulations on your mammoth number of views! Well deserved going by the journey you have been on.
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Nothing much over the last couple weeks, my father being admitted to intensive care and subsequent death meant an unscheduled holiday back in the UK.
But I am back on it now after returning home so there should be an update quite soon.
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My condolences on the passing of your father, Brian.
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Likewise, sorry to here of your loss.
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Well to say I've had trouble getting back into this is definitely an understatement. But this is what I've been up to so far, basically trying to complete the bridge. I've been cutting and drilling the stanchions by hand again using the jig I made months ago, the roof so far has another 96 of these now done and in place.
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I've added the satellite domes, still two large ones to go. The masking as can be seen is partially removed from the window glass, but some touching up around the frames is still required as can be seen in the photos. I'm currently finishing off the handrail and a companionway ladder down from the roof, its intensive work so I only spend 15 to 30 minutes at a time on it before taking a break. So hopefully in the next week or two we will be back to more interesting stuff.
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I was saving these for the next update in a week or so, but lets get rid of them now. Just a couple with the bridge in place to show how the finished ship is going to be. All the railings on the bridge almost complete, I have to work down the companionway and then add paint to that part, also touch up a myriad of places that really do look rough after manhandling for the last few months. Window glass is another problem, it has misted over in places from the cyano fumes, even though I used a canopy (aircraft) specific one just for this purpose.
The major problem and I think I mentioned it elsewhere, is that the bridge deck seems to have sunk in the centre leaving a gap along the sides, as demonstrated in the edge of the rule I'm holding. I reckon I have a fix for it, but I'll show it next time in case it fails, then I'll be asking for suggestions - short of removing this deck and replacing!
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OK so how did I sort out the deck subsidence? First of all I clamped a square tube of aluminium to the top side, the clamps pulling the deck upwards at strategic points.. photo 1.
In the meantime I had some U channel thinwall steel strip, 10mm by 5mm. I cut down and planed some timber to fit the groove of it and then bonded them together with epoxy. Two days later I removed the aluminium tubing and it had almost pulled the deck back. So pva glue smeared on the timber of the steel U channel and this was inserted inside the underdeck and again pulled up using the clamps and aluminium tube and left in place for 24 hours, then I did the opposite side of the deck leaving it almost level.
Some sanding took place removing a lot of the green deck paint, a smearing of filler added and more sanding.
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Placing the superstructure on to it showed there is still a little gap, so I glued some mahogany strip I had lying about around the periphery of the superstructure. Then with some sanding, trying the fit and then more sanding, I worked my way around the superstructure to achieve an almost gapless finish.
This has taught me a lesson. When you cut a hole in something and want it to remain flat, make sure you reinforce its edges as soon as possible!
The annoyance now is that I have to repaint much of the superstructure instead of touching up small parts of it. You will see this in the closeup's shown here. Also there seems to be many antenna's on this ship for some reason, you can see some of them in this photo's, I have elected to add 16 but from the pictures I have there are around 30 in total.
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That is 16 antenna's not including the various sat domes! The railings on this part are also complete now. So I have just another 68 to make for the bridge deck itself and that is them complete. Here's a couple photos to show how I make them. First using the jig to chain drill holes in each edge of a strip of brass sheet. Then cut these oversize on the bandsaw. Then finally sand down to correct width on the Proxxon disk sander.
Finally cut to length and solder to rails These are 4 rail stanchions so I cut them off between the 5 and 6 holes. the top hole is sanded away so its a half moon shape in the stanchion, the first rail sits in this. Then count down 3 holes for the next 3 rails. The 5th hole is the deck level, so the short piece below this is sanded to a 1mm pin, including sanding away the 4th hole, this inserts into the deck. Hope this is a clear description.
So for now I'll finish with these 3 photo's to show what a bruiser the front of this ship looks like. Next update the deck should be done and I will be moving on to building the daughtercraft for the stern hangar and the fast rescue craft for the port side front hangar.
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On second thoughts, I just made this jpeg for further explanation. The jig for the stanchions is made with a drill press and an attached wooden base, The drill bit is lowered and a mark made on the surface. to the left (or the right) side of this mark you knock in a pin the same diameter as the drill bit. In my case it was .75mm, it is spaced from the drill bit the distance between the rails, in my case 4mm. There is also a runner behind the pin and the drill bit to keep the brass running parallel, this should be just over half the width of your stanchion to allow for clean up afterwards (remember the disk sander?) The brass is then run up against the pin and a hole drilled. The brass sheet is then lifted so that the hole drops over the pin and your next hole drilled, repeat this process over and over and you end up with a strip of perfectly spaced holes.
The second diagram on the jpeg explains what I mean in the trimming of the individual stanchions so that they are all the same length when inserted into the deck.
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Great work Brian :-)) Is the plywood affixed with something to the table of the sander?I have the same tool and know too well how it has an appetite to swallow thin items if you don't use additional support.
Regards
Nigel
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I do both Nigel, I have a plywood base that I can use as a jig base on the dremel stand, in the photo you can see that I also use drill bits that come in various sizes for drilling pcb's (has a coloured plastic collar)- check them out on ebay (pcb drills) I use these because they are really stiff and don't wander on the workpiece surface. Of course you can't use them free hand in a mini drill as any and I mean any slightest sideways deflection on the material means they snap! Direct up down pressure only.
As to the sander, I use a piece of 5mm plywood, I butt it up tightly to the sanding disk, clamp it in place to the tilt bed and then turn on the sander. The disk will obviously sand away some of the ply but crucially leaves the minimum gap for parts to be dragged downwards by the disk when in motion.
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Brian I have used the carbide PCB drills on my static models down to 0.15mm!I only use them in the proxxon mill as like you say,they are prone to snapping if you use them in a hand supported machine.
Regards
Nigel
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Yes, I bought some 0.4mm from China (AliExpress) advertised for slotting aluminium. The reality was you couldn't slot a sheet of cardboard with them unless of course you wanted them to snap! I put it down to the Chinese not knowing the difference between drills, endmills and slotting drills %% {-)
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OK to ease me back into the craft room again after visiting the UK for a week or two, here are some photo's from before I went. Getting bored with all the sanding and filling and repainting on the bridge structure, I turned to the daughterboat. I had a line drawing of said item but nothing more than shown here except for the overall measurements.
So I gave it some thought on how to tackle such a small craft and yet still have it operate. I carved a plug from balsa and then covered it in brown packing tape. More thinking and then instead of creating a grp mould instead opted to vacuum form it in plasticard.
I made a vac forming platform from a suitable plastic box, as can be seen, it was drilled with many holes in the surface to allow the vacuum to pull the plastic down. a hole in the side for the flexi hose from my wife's bestest vacuum cleaner :embarrassed: and both the inside and large hole reinforced with ply, which in hindsight was a good thing - who would think a domestic vacuum could pull such a err vacuum!!!! it almost collapsed the box, fortunately the moulding was already complete when this occured. The box of course is sealed with a lid which I also duct taped into place to seal it completely.
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The sheet of plasticard was stapled to a wooden rectangle slightly larger than the box, place into the oven under its grill portion until the plastic began to sag in the centre. With my wife holding the hose in the hole and ready to turn the vacuum on I quickly removed the plastic from the oven and held over the form, as she turned on the vacuum I lowered it quickly and the resulting suction pulled it to shape, I couldn't ask for better. As I said after around 30 seconds of the vacuum running the box began to collapse inwards, fortunately the plastic had cooled enough for the resulting hull to retain its shape.
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Now I have the rough hull which will need some finessing around the top but I can't do that until the decking is in place. Its now a fitting out job for motor and ancillary's while saving weight or this tiny thing will float like a brick without total care.
While on about weightsaving I wanted a standard dc motor at 14 grams, but I was worried about the torque even though the prop is just 10mm in diameter, so I upped the weight to 23 grams and have opted for a brushless, but saved the difference in weight with its accompanying esc. Also just look at the size of that servo, I don't think they come much smaller!
As an aside the real daughterboat uses two jet drives, hmmm its getting a single prop drive unless anyone knows of jet drives with a diameter of 5mm and less than 30 mm long :} so that brings me right up to date, and ready to start afresh after my 'holiday'
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Wow Brian thats mighty impressive building a home made vac box - The little boat looks great :-))
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Crikey what a lot of work you have done to her over the past few months Brian. I would have got bored making my stanchions much sooner and have reached for the internet to buy brass stanchions :-)
Despite setback, she is coming along really nicely.
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looking good Brian :-))
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I'm definitely going to try and make a vac-box like yours Brian - simple but effective, as they say... :-))
Regards,
Ray.
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I'm definitely going to try and make a vac-box like yours Brian - simple but effective, as they say... :-))
Regards,
Ray.
If you do Ray then I would suggest making the box out of 12mm 1/2in plywood for rigidity, I used the plastic box because I had it lying around, but really it was too weak to withstand the vacuum that was pulled inside of it- especially if I wanted to make repeat items. You can see how much suction happened by all the small dimples where the plastic was sucked into the holes. This was your standard A4 size sheet of plasticard, I think you should be able to go up to A3 (double A4) six with no trouble at all. Vacuum I used was a 'Henry' but any with a hose would do.
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Ah, yes I see what you mean. Thanks for pointing that out.
I bought a Titan wet/dry vacuum cleaner from screw fix recently which should create the suction required.
Regards
Ray
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Let's have a bit more of the daughterboat...
I got the hull fitted out with the motor and servo and esc. These are now sealed forever under the rear sub decking. Then I cut the mesh panelling that covers the motor room from stainless steel micro mesh and superglued that to the sub deck. Around this I cut the main deck and the access covers for the engines and glued those to the sub dec all around the hull perimeter. The end result is a completely flat surface with no transition between the mesh and the deck.
I moved on to the superstructure and here is shown attempt number one. I got it completed but it didn't look right when finished. I compared it to my photos and the proportions were wrong - I had to guess these as I only have photo's no plans, Mare Safety for some reason keep them well protected even thought the hull shape is generic across many manufacturers! I don't think I mentioned that earlier, I only used the drawing above for the hull shape knowing the cabin was nothing like what was needed. So onto cabin build number 2.
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So here is attempt number 2 much more in proportion to what is on the actual boat. The front port holes cause a bit of consternation due to them being below the internal cowling for the cabin to slot over. I solved this by removing part of the cowling and using 2mm acrylic sheet in its place, instant glazing for the portholes which looks correct and will also keep the water out. The grille can be seen better in these photo's also the rear conning position and a small venting grille made from some photo etch that was in the spares tray. Also the front escape hatch in place as well. The front roofline caused a bit of a headache with its shape. Getting the compund curve to it - think of a football surface. In the end I copied the original from photo's made up from 5 wedges and glued into place, then the curve cut around the front. The end result actually shows up like the original as well - bonus!
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So lets put some paint on it so that the cabin glazing can be done. Looks like the Robin Reliant of Del Boys here :)
I have made a rudimentary internals, a couple of seats taken from some tiny cheapo cars, two seamen painted in survival suits make up the internals. On the roof are the two inflateable pods that right the craft in case of capsize, according to the sales blurb these are enough to right the craft in a total submerge and flooding of all internal spaces to allow crew to survive - nice to know! I made these the same as the cheater panels on my tramp steamer. A couple pieces of kitchen towel soaked in pva glue, draped over two rectangles of plasticard and allowed to dry. The end result gives a good facsimile of the canvas covered pods- the port side is only half the length of the starboard. Also added a location radar as well, I'm not adding the aerial array to it. You can also see the handrails along the sides and also the railing around the stern over the access hatches.
The hull is not yet painted as I am tossing around ideas for the rudder. The actual boat has two waterjet drives, I have used a tiny propellor. I can't use a standard rudder as their is no room really, I could offset it like a powerboat or make a kort nozzle. What I am thinking is an extended kort nozzle to mimic the shape of the waterjet outlets. whichever way I go will be shown in the next update.
So for now its a Xmas break away from building (at least for one day :) ) So a Happy Xmas to anyone that cares to read this..
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Wow great detail :-))
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looking good Brian :-))
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Let's carry on with the daughterboat.
These four show me cutting the brass to fashion a prop, very tiny and really unable to source one so small without resorting to extortionate prices to commission one.
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Here's a couple of photo's showing how it fits into its hangar at the stern, quite a tight fit but the photo's I have of the real craft show it just the same.
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Sometimes pictures just do not sum up how difficult a job can be - nice job Brian there's some patience in that prop :-))
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And the almost completed daughterboat, balancing on some shot glasses that I use for paint etc.
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I think you need to buy some more clamps because you obviously don't have enough {-) Lovely job on the boat :-))
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OK now here's the final few and an admission. This daughterboat is going on a shelf to be forgotten about! I have not been happy with the way it has gone together - the final straw was hooking up the control wire to the bucket over the prop, it snapped the end of the servo which is buried deep in the boat and unreachable. On top of that I have seen on a shapeways page a gill drive jet prop arrangement in 12mm diameter which is more in keeping with this boat.
I'm waiting for an answer to find out if he can downsize it from 12mm to 8mm for me and then I'll rebuild a new hull. Meanwhile the entire build is once again going on the backburner as I have to get my MG finally converted to Spanish registration before the brexit date in March. So another week or two from it will hopefully reinvigorate my jaded build prowess at the moment.
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Cheers Mark. Can't have enough clamps, I have a whole row of metal woodwork clamps hung under the bench, some metal C clamps under there as well along with a whole drawer of bulldog clips :}
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Even if it was a Version 1.0, the design has some good ideas such as the transparent area in the uprighty bit that keeps the water out (I can't think of the name, I have Manthrax :(( ) Have loads of fun in the MG and refresh your batteries Brian. You have come so far to abandon the project now, she's a classy model as is her daughter.
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No new update as yet, but just some info to pass along, Kurt the first officer onboard has been in touch to let me know of the latest developments on the 1 to 1 ship. Over the last couple months its undergone a facelift with the addition of huge batteries and a shore connection. This allows it to rely solely on battery power when its on station alonside the Goliat platform in the Barents sea. The shore connection also allows for it to connect into the Norwegian electrical grid instead of using liquified gas to power its systems whilst in port. Apparently these changes allow it to save 1400 tonnes of carbon dioxide being emitted to the atmosphere per annum.
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We all want to know, did you test sail her, and what was the result, even just in a sink did she sit upright, you could reuse the top as that won't change its just the hull.
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We all want to know, did you test sail her, and what was the result, even just in a sink did she sit upright, you could reuse the top as that won't change its just the hull.
Are we talking about the daughterboat? Yep it floated ok just above the waterline with all running gear except a battery! I need a battery about half the size of a pp3 that kicks out 6v - 9v and as light as possible %% the esc has a bec built in so no probs there.
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Yep the daughter boat, only those who are familiar with lipo could help, it would also be advisable to determine the weight that would be needed, say a few washers added and when at the limit then weigh them
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Yep the daughter boat, only those who are familiar with lipo could help, it would also be advisable to determine the weight that would be needed, say a few washers added and when at the limit then weigh them
:-)) :-))
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Are we talking about the daughterboat? Yep it floated ok just above the waterline with all running gear except a battery! I need a battery about half the size of a pp3 that kicks out 6v - 9v and as light as possible %% the esc has a bec built in so no probs there.
something like this will give you 7.5v to 8.0v at a much higher amperage than the 9v, and weighs less than half: (link is just an example of what to look for)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZIPPY-350MAH-2S-7-4V-20C-LIPO-BATTERY-JST-MINI-MICRO-QUADS-PLANES-ROCK-CRAWLERS/272629203077?epid=886153868&hash=item3f79f78085:g:llgAAOSwAANY7vg0:sc:USPSFirstClass!80005!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0
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That one is certainly worth exploring Tsenecal, although if it were 10mm shorter in length it would make fitting a lot easier. I'll see if I can source one in the UK or Europe and have a play around with fitment, offhand weight could be an issue, but I'll try warspite's idea of floating it with metal washers until I get to the waterline then see how much they weigh.