Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: peter goddard on December 23, 2016, 06:58:31 pm
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Start of my first build.
I glued the ribs directly to the build board.
CNC cut luan mahogany underlay.
I'm planking the hull in pine strips, ripped a bunch up today.
The wife is calling me "Dusty"
The bow was a bit twisty, I had to improvise a method of securing her, LOL.
It is surprisingly strong now!
Planing starts tomorrow.
I'm thinking from my research I want to plank from the gunwales up, and the keel down, and fill in the middle bits last.
Please advise if this is wrong.
I'm counting on a lot of advice, and I will keep the pictures coming.
Cheers!
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Hello Peter and welcome to the Forum.
Have you had a good mosey around the masterclass build section of this forum? Because on there - there are several builds for tugs and so forth using the plank on frame method.
Personally when I plank a hull; I plank 5 planks one side of the keel and 5 planks the other side of the keel. I do this to prevent the hull distorting when the glue dries out on the planks. Then I plank from the deck/gunnel edge up over 5 planks.
The other thing I tend to do is when I mount the frames on the building board of the hull, I use square blocks. The reason I do it this way, is if the frame is slightly out I can open up the screw hole that secures the block to the building board which then allows me slight movement of the block to correct any misalignment.
Hope this is of some help. Keep on posting your pictures as we like to have a look and we love pictures on this Forum.
John
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Re-booted the project after running into a number of hitches.
The free Klimek plans seem to contain a number of errors? :o
Anyway, I took the suggestions to heart and I built a new build-board, and I re-drew the plans.
Cutting new parts now.
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It might seem like a lot of wasted time to re-start but having a warped hull is a pretty much unfixable, and you would spend more time trying to correct it than by re-starting.
Well done.
Steve
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Absolutely.
:-))
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Good luck with your build Peter and top marks for persevering and starting again. Many people would just swear lots and give in.
I look forward to seeing your progress, I am sure the model will be first rate.
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I don't give up easily.
My wife says I don't have hobbies, only obsessions. O0
I have a bit of a leg up over a true beginner, I built a bunch of airplanes. Similar challenges.
I also have about 25 years of CAD and CAM experience, so I can cheat a bit and get nice neat and perfect parts off the little CNC.
This is a day's casual production from a 30cmx30cm CNC I hobbled together from an old engraving machine.
It could go a lot faster, but the edges tear and chip. I take my time.
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I ordered a motor and speed controller, shaft and prop yesterday off Amazon. Good prices.
I didn't want to wait till I had the prop shaft to assemble the frame, so I made a notch in the keel with another small notch that enters the skeg. I'm going to glue dowel halves on each side of the notch, and after I get the prop shaft I can use the small entry hole to guide a drill through.
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You can see the partially cleared prop shaft notch here.
That light coloured bit is a patch that was already in the plywood.
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I'm just sitting with a bad cold, enjoying a nice rum and cola, and listening to my CNC finishing panel 4 from my designs.
Not bad, must say. ok2
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My motor arrived today by Purolator. Two days early.
I will have to see if there are design specs available to set the holes for a mount.
I've milled aluminum a few times with the CNC, and it's no big trial. A nice motor mount will be a complement to the model.
Last bits of frame in the CNC now.
The parts fit so snug, I could almost skip the glue.
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Its looking good so far and I like the frames cut on your cnc, I do mine the same on a laser of around the same size, you can get more precise finishing on the cuts than you can by hand for sure.
The motor mount for a 500 series is standard throughout the range, if you go to Como drills site the specs for the mount are on there.
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Thanks for the tip!
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NB: That Joysway 550 Brushed Motor may prove to be a bit fast for a Tug!
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I wondered, but I can add a belted reduction if need be. I'm not familiar with water propulsion.
So a tug shouldn't plane then? LOL %%
The motor was a good deal and I wanted a 5 pole for quiet operation.
The hull is big, so it will give me room to tinker around.
What would you consider ideal for RPM turning that 33mm prop?
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Hi Peter have you seen this build on hear
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20447.0
and this one
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-scale-boating-103/11583105-scratch-built-polish-tug-klimek.html
john
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Yes thanks John,
I study it every day lately.
Very helpful.
A quick calculation of the Joysway 550 which coincidentally has a Kv rating of 550 says I'll be swinging the 33mm prop at about 3300 rpm unloaded at 6 volts. That should be manageable no?
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Hi ya Peter
where did you get the size for your prop from? I do know plastic props are more efficient than brass ones in modelling terms - but - 32 mm does seem a bit small for that size of tug which you are building.
I know I built MSC Archer tug and that is roughly about 23 inches long (in old English money :-) ) and I have on there a 4 blade 50 mm brass prop. That pushes it along quite nicely.
The motor originally came from ACTion (Dave Milbourn) and it was a 555 motor rated at 12 volts but I only ran it on a 7.2 - you can purchase the same motor from Component Shop as well now.
John
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Prop size was a shot-in-the-dark.
I was looking for a cheap prop, based only on the shaft diameter and a guess about how big it should be.
I really love your knotted bumpers. I imagine there are instructions in this site somewhere.
I'll have to have a gander.
Canadians are fluent in both metric and what we call "American"(sorry GB) sizes, temperatures, speeds, and distances.
We get confused with weights and volumes. Somehow when it comes to buying food and liquor, we want to refer to the old standards. Strange.
I'm sure I'll soon have a collection of disused parts for my next build.
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MMB Rope fender set with chain fixings
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MMB-Rope-fender-set-with-chain-fixings-for-model-boats-/272497092144?var=&hash=item3f7217a630:m:meHrF8a3E331xgIBGfAQIUg
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZpIAAOSwqu9VP6T0/s-l1600.jpg)
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Hi there
First of all; you have to be extremely nice to your better half and she has to be able to knit/crochet - then you have to buy her a plant or something as a bribe and hey presto - Fenders - as long as you supply the ball of string. :-)
Apparently me wife says anyone who can knit could follow Martin's pictures above and produce some fenders.
John
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That's a great idea thanks!
My wife does knit, and she supports me being locked up in the garage for days on end, so she will oblige.
I was somewhat taken aback by the price online. In my experience modellers are stingy old crabs.
45 Canadian Pesos before shipping?
I appreciate the links and info, but Nyuh-uh. I'm way to cheap for that. {-)
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Quick update.
Basically I'm thinking about buying stocks in a clamp and glue enterprise.
Just glued the ribs to the blocks and glued the 4 sections of the keel together.
Tomorrow I'll align the ribs to the centerline and square everything before I glue it all up.
My wife says she will knit my fenders for me!
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I laminated some strips to stiffen the keel. I think it looks straight enough.
Made my prop-shaft hole thingy. (not an official nautical term)
The rest of the last few days has been experimenting with how to shape planks.
I know theres a lot of different opinions, but I am getting my best and easiest results from 2mmx7mm oak strips I ripped up myself, and bending them with the aid of a crimping tool I fashioned from a small jewellers plier.
I made a lot of kindling in the process.
I also used a trick from model airplane experience with the frame stringers, and fashioned them from 1/4" dowel instead of square stock. It makes no sense to me to use wood that needs to be bent AND twisted, when the round stock only needs to be bent.
I'll post some pics of the planking as it goes on.
Wish me luck!
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You are a lucky chap to have a supportive spouse:O) I like the idea of building up the prop shaft tunnel like you have. Quite elegant.
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Well Peter....you have shown an image that is rarely offered in model building but is always referenced in full size ship builds O0
The 'Run of Keel' ...straight & true :-))...& no drunken wander :D
Keep the images coming thru
Derek
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Thanks! She's pretty special.
I stole the prop shaft tunnel thingy from a Polish build I found online.
I'll probably do some more carving on it after the planking.
I picked up some brass and copper today for the tiller. I love a nice fresh bit of copper sheet. Pity to cut it.
"Run of Keel" Very nice.
I love a true line. No matter what you build it makes it look fit!
Thanks to the master-builders for the tips to make it happen.
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So, things are coming along nicely.
I can do about 5 or 6 planks a day in my spare time.
I've worked out a method that is not fast, but it works, and is easy to do.
After the first few rows from the keel the process of bending was much simpler.
Now I reached the widest part of the beam, and by tapering the planks I could fill in the chine area.
Plank 9 on either side then runs the whole length, full width.
After 9 I laid plank 13, tapering the keel facing ends of 13 till I had a nice crescent shaped gap, about three planks wide at midships.
Then fill in the gap, tapering the planks as required, and trying to make sure they run out over a rib for secure gluing.
After 13, I tapered the keel facing ends of subsequent planks, making sure they were tight to the previous plank.
Soon I ran the taper out to the last former fore and aft, and started with full width planks again.
I'm still finding push-pins to be the best way to secure my planks, and spring clamps to hold the edges in alignment with the previous run.
I shape and fit a plank, pre-drilling the pin-holes to avoid splitting, and adding spring clamps where required.
When I remove the plank for final fitting and glue, I keep the pins in the plank, and I lay the clamps down on the table where they are required.
Now I can add a drop of glue to the first rib and push the pin home in the previously established hole. Then, working along a couple or three ribs at a time, glue and fasten at each rib, adding clamps where they go.
A good bit of stout twine is a great help in securing stubborn fitting planks. I put a pin in the keel, and tie the string off there.
My drive shaft and speed controller arrived in good order. Still waiting on a prop that is looking a bit too small.
All for now.
Cheers
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Wow.
Planking is a big undertaking. %%
I enjoyed doing it, but I'm glad I can begin to move onto other tasks.
Anyway, here is the partially sanded result.
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Lookin' great :-)) .
Mark
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That is a good rugged hull Peter. I like plank on frame,there is something very attractive about them.
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Articulated rudder.
I hope you guys like this.
I love to make things complicated I guess.
FYI this is fully hand made with very primitive tools.
Soldered copper sheet and brass tubes.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/10YMGCPpIwAPNS/giphy.gif)
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Cool :-)) .
Mark
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Very nice!!
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Peter....your articulated rudder is a work of engineering art O0 ......one point you may wish to consider is controlling [reducing] the speed of movement
Rudder movement [speed] is one of the units of motion that do not really fall well into scaling
An ACTion P96 servo morph would provide this facility and also make the end set points adjustable, together with the facility to extend a standard servo travel
Derek....[no association, just a very happy P96 customer]
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjjl6SjrbbSAhUGabwKHaaECq8QFggZMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.action-electronics.co.uk%2Fpdfs%2FP96.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGg2pxP5R0u9BeNodnY2dJ2UCvg5w&bvm=bv.148441817,d.dGc
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Peter, your rudder is brilliant especially as it is all hand built. It shows that our model making forefathers did know their onions when it came to making all maner of things with little or no machinery.
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Looks good to me the rudder! :-))
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Thanks folks!
Thanks for the tip Derek. I will add a circuit to limit the travel and speed.
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So, Derek got me thinking about electronics for this ship.
%)
I took a few hours this morning and programmed an Arduino microprocessor to do the speed and range of travel adjustments.
I'm going to add some features like directional stability and throttle curves to emulate the ramping up and down of the diesel.
I can also add a couple of battery condition monitors with an audible alarm, and a digital readout.
A failsafe that would navigate the boat back to port via GPS would be cool, as would a way to record positions and replay them for autonomous travels.
Sound effects are a possibility.
Light controls and accessory motor controls... really anything.
With bluetooth all the variables can be controlled via my IPhone; maybe even eliminate the RC receiver altogether.
Not knocking the guys who make these great, and affordable electronic devices, they are the salt of the earth.
I just happen to be capable with the computer controls, so I'm going in that direction.
I'll post my setup and programs as I complete them.
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Well Pete....it certainly sounds like you are capable of creating these functions electronically :-))
There are a number of MBM members who are going down this via Arduino microprocessor path [and many more in the wings watching {me included} watching and learning]
Be more that interested in any detailed postings you make O0
Derek
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Hmmm.
Tried to post a lengthy primer on Arduino, but the forum rearranged all my pictures and spoiled it.
How can I make sure the images I post remain inline, rather than being relocated to the bottom of the message?
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How can I make sure the images I post remain inline, rather than being relocated to the bottom of the message?
The pictures would have to hosted by another site. That way, you can place them between text.
ken
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Ok Thanks.
I saved everything so I'll try again in the morning.
:-))
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I haven't posted in a while... but I'm still making progress with the Klimek.
(http://i.imgur.com/4x49dBq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SucYiK0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/L1FjfVI.jpg)
Used epoxy and superfine glass for waterproofing.
I like epoxy as it doesn't stink so much.
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Finally free from the build board. O0 O0
(http://i.imgur.com/Nbh2usP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/W3eQwcr.jpg)
Upper deck is spruce strips.
I tried a solid sheet of plywood, but it just didn't want to take the shape of the deck.
Spruce is nice to work with, but dents easily.
(http://i.imgur.com/apy8Rju.jpg)
My secret laboratory
(http://i.imgur.com/u1zoLh1.jpg)
Came out nice and smooth. I found a tip to get rid of runs by scraping them off with a razor blade. Worked fantastically!
(http://i.imgur.com/UYyZi0J.jpg)
The foredeck.
(http://i.imgur.com/x8qwGBq.jpg)
The stern. I threaded the top of the rudder post and tapped a little handmade aluminum tiller. Bit of threadlock... Bob's your uncle.
(http://i.imgur.com/apy8Rju.jpg)
Nice slope on the deck.
(http://i.imgur.com/vOL49Yw.jpg)
Motor was mounted, took it out to apply inside waterproofing... thinned 5-minute epoxy from the dollar store.
(http://i.imgur.com/w8QYu77.jpg)
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Lookin' good :-)) .
Mark
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Hey Guys! Had a bit of a break to get caught up on real life.It's spring here, and that means I have to rake the ranch.Anyway, I was puzzled how to do the bulwarks, because of the tight bends, and the compound curves.Finally I just leapt in and did the bulwark plates in 1/16 balsa. I bent the bow over a small carved block about 3/4" thick.I put some very small strips down to make a notch for the bottom edge of the balsa to glue against, then I just kinda built the panels out to where they are in the pics.I stiffened the balsa with super thin super glue. Afterwards, I fashioned a number of 2" and 1" bulwark stanchions from white oak I had laying around, and stuck them in place with super glue.
The result is amazingly strong.
Oh, and I finally built a stand.
(http://i.imgur.com/Vj4ihdY.jpg)[/size][/font][/font]
(http://i.imgur.com/Eh1SSbd.jpg)
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:-))
Mark
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Firstly I am copying that idea in your workshop where you have the sander above the grinder, excellent O0
Secondly, The bulwarks look very tidy and neatly curved. It is useful to know that spruce is quite soft for future reference.
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Haha Help yourself to any ideas you like.
This is a messy but VERY handy workbench.
I even have a small bending brake built into the front edge.
Thanks for the kind comments.
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A few more progress pics.
I decided to make the cabin very light. I guess this works. A few strategic stiffeners and braces, and its as solid as ply.
1/16" and 1/8" balsa only. I extended the sides down a bit and made everything square at first, rather than cutting the deck contours as in the plans.
I taped the structure together and then hit the joints with thin CA.
I lapped the cabin to the deck very nicely by sticking self-adhesive strips of sandpaper to the deck where the cabin edges are. Then just moved the cabin back-and-forth with a bit of pressure... good fit.
(http://i.imgur.com/sZ0zG6X.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2OKDtis.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xYAOTNN.jpg)
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looking good Peter :-))
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(http://i.imgur.com/BzXBTuJ.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/WE9uh6H.jpg)
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A couple of progress shots.
I'm using a new fast dry enamel paint from Krylon.
It's really thin, but sprays beautifully, very resistant to runs.
Best of all, it dries to the touch in 8-10 minutes.
Waterproof hatch cover is made from oak veneer I found at the side of the road.
I put food wrap over the hole, then put a nice thick bead of clear silicone on the sealing edges of the cover.
Pressing the cover to the hole, it molds itself to the surface perfectly.
The plastic peels off easily when the silicone is dry.
I got 10 lbs of lead shot today. I will commence ballast trials today I think. I want to get the waterline painted.
(http://i.imgur.com/w0kynXt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fxJDJYm.jpg)
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Trying to figure out what to use for a rubbing strip.
If I had thought it through, I would have just extended the deck a few mm all around.
I read where someone makes mouldings by running an index card or old credit card with an appropriate shape notch over a bead of silicone on glass. After it's dry they cut it free with a razor blade.
I'm really leaning towards this.
Any other suggestions?
(I am going to try and bend some very tiny wood mouldings, but I doubt they will make the bow and stern curves.) %%
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hi there
Hows about using strip styrene or plasticard as some people call it - cut the same width as your rubbing strake but only half the thickness and build your rubbing strake thickness up using several pieces all glued on top of one another. Have a look at the Cervia build that is how I did the rubbing strake on her.
john
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Ahhh!
It's so simple, but my mind just wasn't going there! :embarrassed:
I even have styrene i bought for doing details on the CNC.
Thanks tons. :-))
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Klimek first voyage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zEEHJUTzSw
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Very smooth. Nice driving. :-))
ken
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Yup. The hull looks like it is made from fibre glass and not balsa, ovely smooth finish Peter ;)
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Thanks guys!
It was a very rewarding project, and i've met a number of like-minded people at the pond.
Wonderfully rewarding hobby.
This winter I will dress it out, and then maybe another.?!?!
Cheers to all, and thank-you for the forum and all the kind help.
P %% %%