Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: jpdenver on January 15, 2017, 09:27:47 pm
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Greetings.
Last summer I managed to find an un-built MH&B Topaz kit. It took a bit to get it from South Africa to Denver, Colorado.
I then had to re-configure my shop in the garage in order to make room on the other half for my wife to park her car.
When I finally got everything ready I discovered that there were some cracks in the hull.
So before I got started those needed repair. I asked in the fiberglass section of this forum on methods of repair
and after following them, I am now ready to start.
The kit is incredibly complete. All the little extras are provided.
I started by an inventory, then I had the drawings mounted on
cardboard to facilitate being handled.
Next I started to separate the pieces and categorize them by where
they go on the boat: Cockpit, Salon, Seating Area, etc.
Here are some pics.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver
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A few more beginning Pics:
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Hullo Jim......will look forward to your build log :-)) ............ Derek
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Oooh, lovely! Really looking forward to this build. O0
Glad to see you got your hull cracks fixed. That mend should vanish under the paint and never trouble you again.
Greg
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Looking forward to watching your build with interest. . I am on the last leg with my build, rescued the Topaz kit from The States a year ago. Mine was also unmolested, fortunately no problems with cracked hull. Have found it a very interesting build . I think yours is one of the later kits, mine was an early version and the build plans left a lot to be desired , they got better on the later versions, I am down to the final fitting out of the main cabin.
It really does make a fantastic display model, visitors to our house who have no interest in model boats have been stopped in their tracks to admire it. I wonder if I will have the balls to take it down to the duck pond to steam it and get it dirty ?
Happy Building,
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Bonjour,
Topaz is a beautiful and very uncommon launch in France.
My friend Eric found one in England and equipped it with an Anton steam plant : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kifkESTY9I4
And Miles won a race of the Anton Trophy with his one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVbhy5EJAU also here at the beginning of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7xt4v4QK70
I missed one, she would have had her place in my collection :-))
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So Baldrick -
Where is your build log?
If your plans were even more obscure than mine,
then you certainly must have had a difficult time.
I am finding myself hesitant to actually begin.
I keep re-reading the plans and looking at pictures
to find all the little details.
My kit came with the Anton Crystal engine, boiler and piping.
I am looking for an appropriate gas regulator as I believe in them.
I also need a good whistle - every steam launch need a whistle!!
Does anyone have a source for these items? I am familiar with the
BIX regulator, I have one in each of my other boats, are there any better?
As to the whistle - I am looking for a slimmer model than I have used in the past.
Any good sources? I will order anywhere in the world.
Thanks for reading,
I really enjoy this forum and the help I see being freely given.
Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA.
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Bonjour Jim,
For a gas regulator, I would recommend you a double diaphragm Anton, expensive but fully reliable (I have several, but noyt filmed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovmjIvfkTw ). Benefit, French threads compliant with your plant ok2
Alternative : Microcosm, larger : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO16806-3pM and English thread.
For the whistle, I would suggest a JMC one, I also gave several of them : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA-D4mQ3I9g
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Without offering any comment, the members of a French Model boat WEB with steam affiliation have a number of individual threads on the Chinese double membrane gas regulator
http://modelismenavalradioc.nouvellestar6.com/t12936-achat-chine
In my build I have the Anton V71 regulator which is a single diaphragm unit and has been without fault since commissioning approx. 5 years ago , [not as complex as any dual membrane unit]...I understand the V71 is similar to the BIX regulator however I also understand the BIX unit has not been available for some 2 years? which is difficult to understand:o
Below is my V71 as installed, I intend to add an isolation valve on the gas discharge tube prior to the burner and also a second pressure gauge again on the discharge side of the regulator
Derek
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So Baldrick -
Where is your build log?
If your plans were even more obscure than mine,
then you certainly must have had a difficult time.
I am finding myself hesitant to actually begin.
I keep re-reading the plans and looking at pictures
to find all the little details.
Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA.
It's a bit further down the page from your post http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,56416.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,56416.0.html)
I have not posted as I progress but have a bit of a file I was holding to do a bulk upload at completion .
Don't worry, just look at the plans long enough and things will crystallise out of the fog, take them to bed to read, cures insomnia .
regards Balders
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Actually Jim I found this site a more useful resource than the MH&B plans , I commend it to you.
http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/martenhowes-and-baylis-topaz.html
regards Balders
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So Baldrick -
If your plans were even more obscure than mine,
then you certainly must have had a difficult time.
I am finding myself hesitant to actually begin.
I keep re-reading the plans and looking at pictures
to find all the little details.
Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA.
I can relate to that.
My kit was one of the early ones and I found the plans confusing at times.
I think that the inability to cover up any slight errors, due to the natural wood finish, has meant that I procrastinate and keep checking that what I'm doing is correct...
It's still sitting in my workshop waiting for me to finish the cabin - does look really good though :-))
Perhaps your build will inspire me :-)
Good luck with it.
Mark
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Thanks for all the encouragement.
I am currently considering the final hull color, and at what point do I apply it.
Leaning towards a deep green - Close to BRG. I am guessing the time to paint is after
doing all the hull-attaching-activities like the engine, boiler, and driveshaft/rudder. But before the
decking begins.
Also - I am finding all kinds of primers.
Self-etching?
Gap-filling sandable?
Not sure which to use here.
So - please feel free to voice opinions.
Thanks,
Jim Pope
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Jim...I will leave the recommendations of primers & the like to other members with far more experience
Having said this, I do understand your predicament....
That deep Navy Blue looks very nice [AMNA 2016 RC 10/14 : Présentation de la chaloupe vapeur Topaz d'Eric]
However the Deep Green is absolutely stunning :o
Is this termed as a 'rounded reverse counter stern'?... %)
Derek
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Hi Jim .
Hull colour is the most difficult choice, they all look good , I have done mine Ford Monza Blue. For primers the Auto Accessories shop will do a grey rattle can primer for plastic car bumpers, I used this, it went on well and sanded to a perfect finish ready for the top coat. Just be sure you de-grease the hull well . I did not paint my hull until all the deck woodwork was finished, means taking care with the masking tape. If you do get a smidgen of overspray finding its way through, hopefully only a spot or two, metal polish on a cotton wool bud will remove it.
cheers Balders
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:-))
This are a great looking and working whistle
https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-whistle/
and this Gas regulator
http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/bix029.htm
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https://youtu.be/m-Crbu_eeNk
Whistle and gas regulator in work
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Bonjour,
Another example ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTE53aoPAJE
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Bonjour Bernhard,
Is http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/bix029.htm (http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/bix029.htm) a gas regulator (1) or a gas expension limiter (2) ? In French we have two different words : "Régulateur" (A) and "Détendeur" (2)
I got one and did not find the screw needle to adapt the gas low flow at the choosen steam pressure ==> I thought it was a (2).
On my tug Jan, I have both of them, the regulator (1) is a double membrane and the "détendeur "(2) has its own pressure gauge : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYZJDJPBVg
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Greetings again.
Snow on the ground in Denver.
I have rigged a lamp in the garage to keep the chemicals above freezing.
The new heater makes things workable in only about an hour.
Started the build.
First to go in is the "shelf" - their words - I would call them the inwales, or parts thereof.
More to come as it goes.
Also - ordered a BIX regulator from Forest Products. Very fast response.
Still considering the Whistle. The main issue is that the piping has been
pre-configured. There is only one steam outlet, so I will have to build off of that
in some way.
Stand by for more.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver
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If only one steam outlet then you need one of these. This has the Research Products whistle mounted directly. This stops condensate spraying everywhere as whistle always hot.
Jerry.
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Hi everyone I may be stirring a possums nest here but I have been steaming and building scratch model boats for some years now and never needed a gas regulator preferring to keep things simple furthermore in actual use ON THE WATER most small boilers need all the heat they can get and the most efficient setup is a balance between boiler pump feed and and burner, it is also my view that a model steamboat must be trialed in actual circumstances before praising one product or another O0
Cheers
John
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Hi everyone I may be stirring a possums nest here but I have been steaming and building scratch model boats for some years now and never needed a gas regulator preferring to keep things simple furthermore in actual use ON THE WATER most small boilers need all the heat they can get and the most efficient setup is a balance between boiler pump feed and and burner, it is also my view that a model steamboat must be trialed in actual circumstances before praising one product or another O0
Cheers
John
John,
P.M. sent to you.
George.
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Bonjour,
John, I can not let you say that a regulatot is not useful because at first all the steam plants have not a boiler feed pump and furthermore, choosing manually a gas pressure setup will never satisfy both needs of Movement and immobility.
Please listen to the work of a regulator, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSgIe1JsHY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSgIe1JsHY) which justified my opinion.
My boat boilers never exceeds a pressure of 2,5 bars (for example), even if immobile a fe minutes, like it can happpen in a steam contest.
And as I say, based on my own experience, a doube membrane one is quite smoother.
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Bonjour,
John, I can not let you say that a regulatot is not useful because at first all the steam plants have not a boiler feed pump and furthermore, choosing manually a gas pressure setup will never satisfy both needs of Movement and immobility.
Please listen to the work of a regulator, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSgIe1JsHY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSgIe1JsHY) which justified my opinion.
My boat boilers never exceeds a pressure of 2,5 bars (for example), even if immobile a fe minutes, like it can happpen in a steam contest.
And as I say, based on my own experience, a doube membrane one is quite smoother.
Raphael.
John is not saying that regulators are not useful but saying that they are not required, the regulator and boiler level instruments are useful but you must remember that somebody wanting to have a steam boat are not as wealthy as you with your several steam boats and all of the attachments that you have bought.
It can be rather off putting to add up the costs of all the extras that are not really required and you will learn more by having a basic steam plant and getting to know how it performs.
Like John I have built steam plants (engines and boilers ) and steam boats for many years and never have installed any of these extras as it's more fun to balance the plant without them.
George.
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Bonjour George,
Some people can buy because some others build, otherwise this passion would not survive ok2
And I would greatly appreciate if you could argue without using my supposed wealth, we have not been introduced, have we ?
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Bonjour George,
Some people can buy because some others build, otherwise this passion would not survive ok2
And I would greatly appreciate if you could argue without using my supposed wealth, we have not been introduced, have we ?
Raphael,
I have no knowledge of your wealth nor do I wish to but you have made yourself a prominent figure by your comments in the past on this forum and many on y-tube as to the number of steam plants in model boats that you have, that you have, Stuart , Antone , Saito and others over the years but they all come at a high cost which can put new comers of and are lost to the hobby.
Now if I have offended you , I apologies, as it was not my intention to do so, however when you or any other member on the forum insinuates that all of these add ons are necessary to run a Steam boat I shall continue to tell you that you are wrong and not required ,helpful though they my be and as the buyer you are entitled to fit as many extras you please.
George.
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Fear not Raphael....I will not talk of your wealth......[wealth in health is priceless] as long as you can make your own bread & grow your own olives to make olive spread for your bread & your home grown Garlic.... :P
I enjoy each of your many you-tube videos ...I only wish my grasp of the French language was better. I also appreciate and learn from members such as yourself in the postings here at MBM and on other WEB pages
As you are aware, the subject of double membrane gas regulators is currently on the French Le Bleu WEB site and there is also an interesting thread on the same subject on the German De Schipp WEB site
Looking at these WEB sites, it is clear that the number of gas regulators being installed in model marine steam plants is steadily increasing
So, so many builders cannot be wrong, their purpose is not to save gas, they are increasing running times.....
A reader could suggest that refillable gas tanks are expensive, some members pay $0.028/ml of gas for those 7/16"EN?? camping disposable's......some pay $0.006/ml of gas for the bayonet refiller type disposables
The English language is a strange body of words, however sometimes with so many words to choose from allows people to draw on words :embarrassed: which are not necessarily appropriate
Derek
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Bonjour,
Bonjour,
Georges, there is no offense, let me also apologize for my reaction. Discussing and writing is quite different, this is why I like so much the reallife relatiohship. And the language barrier does not help, this is why I try to speak slowly and make a maimum of pictures.
Derek, I am happy to read that you know the "Les copains d'abord" alias "Bleu" forum, I registered only on the "BloOOo" one and lot of French steam passionnates are on both.
I think we are polluting this subject, sorry James and perhaps we could go on sharing in a dedicated subject, so I will create it.
Let us go on dreaming on this beautiful launch (I have not been able to buy her ok2 )
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Raphael,
Thank you for your insights. And it is ok to hi-jack my thread once in awhile, just give it back when you are done. :-))
Honestly, we need to share ideas. I did not start this thread to brag or show off how much or little money I have,
I started it to share my experiences, and give my insights into how I solve the problems I encounter.
I am nearing retirement, and only got into models and live steam in the last 5 years. This build is my third.
and I will make a number of mistakes as I proceed. I look forward to solving them, and will ask all who read to
feel free to comment on the solutions.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Greetings,
It has warmed up for a few days so I am back for a few hours a day to get things going again.
I have built up the bow and then moved onto the drivetrain. Following the printed instructions
and the plans I have built the engine and Boiler mounts and using Bondo, attached them to the
hull.
The Bondo version I am using has fibers embedded in it and it quite plastic until mixed with
the hardener. BTW - the reason for the two colors is that I have two different colors of hardener
and did not notice the color choices until the second batch came out a lighter green.
Next will be to clad the boiler and work on the pipe-work. Adding a port for a whistle and a
gas regulator. I ordered a BIX regulator from Forest Classics, it came in last week.
Here are some pics:
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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More from today:
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Bonjour Jim,
Great progress !
Which is the blackglue you are using ? It looks like thick oil ? I usually use epoxy adhesive bi components.
And a little advice, if you have empty room at the bow, it could be useful to fill it with "air bubbles" to prevent any sink accident (it happened to one of my bats O0
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Thats looking nice Jim. Is the motor an Anton unit as it looks like one? Also did the plans give you the exact location for the motor and boiler or was it a bit trial and error. I'm just asking as my next build is steam.
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Raphael,
The "glue" is actually a Car Body paste with embedded fiberglass.
It uses a hardener and I have two types of it. One had a red hardener
one had a white hardener. I mixed them up, which is why one of the batches
ended up looking like "oil"
Here is a pic of the can.
Thx,
Jim
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Mark,
The engine is an Anton Crystal.
The plans gave me a rough position for the engine and boiler, but it was up to me to
get the pieces to fit together.
I had to cut the hull and fit the running gear. The driveshaft had to be cut about 3/4 of an inch
and after all that the biggest issue was that the drive coupler was a different model than
the plans showed. It is 1/8 inch longer. So I will be working to adjust the front bulkhead
as the boiler is is still off a little.
But in the end of two days I have mounted the engine, boiler, servos and clad the boiler.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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greetings again,
One of the items I noticed was that there is only one outlet for steam.
And since I wanted to add a regulator and a whistle.
So I reorganized the main output and added a port for the regulator
and one for the whistle. Also added a main valve.
Then I interrupted the gas line to insert the regulator and seem to
have gotten things to fit OK, I might have a positioning problem
with the gas tank, it seems a little high up.
Here are some pics.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver
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Bonjour Jim,
Good job, I know now why we say "steam plant" :-)) And to my opinion, I would also add a RC safety gas valve https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCgLBAxieNU
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:-) Hello;
Something teases me, you're going to isolate all of these pipes to avoid steam condensation ? :o
:-)) Nice work dz plumbing
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Thanks for the remarks,
Yes - Insulation will be installed.
And some paint too.
Then I will fire it all up and see if there are any leaks!!
More to come.
Jim Pope
Denver
USA
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Jim,
Is there a reason why the engine is hard against the boiler.
George.
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George,
That is how they designed it. a very tight fit.
I may have to ease the boiler forward a little
but that will impact a bulkhead and the decking.
More to come,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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To All,
I have completed the piping and insulation.
I have picked up a whistle from Microcosm, but made a mistake
and got one with an 8MM connection. Emailed Jin and he is sending me an
adapter.
So here is the result.
BTW - Instead of just a picture of a valve or a device like a regulator,
how about a LINK to where one can buy it?
I am seeing lots of neat little pieces and parts, but a YOU-TUBE video
does not help me find one!!
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver
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Bonjour Jim,
If you refer to my videos, sorry, I try to give my sources ... but in French. For example my safety gas valves come from http://www.anton-vapeur.fr/liste.php?cat=7&mr=Accessoires%20Vannes%20coupe-gaz (http://www.anton-vapeur.fr/liste.php?cat=7&mr=Accessoires%20Vannes%20coupe-gaz) or http://www.dampfmodellbau-keifler.de/ (http://www.dampfmodellbau-keifler.de/) ==> Gasarmaturen
And if you wish other references :-)) , do not hesitate to ask
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Raphael,
Even though I speak no french, I can at least make sense of the website.
So thank you for the posting.
More progress on my Topaz to come soon.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Hello again.
Here is the first run of my assembled steam plant.
some of the noise is because the engine is not fastened
down and is vibrating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWpLbAr8gwg
Thanks for watching,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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Looking good Jim. Did the engine need any adjustment or did it run like that straight out the box?
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The engine ran a little stiffly but I would expect that.
Other than that it is as I received it.
Quite a beautiful piece of engineering.
I plan do a bit more running in during the time I am
finishing the build of the kit.
But first I need to finish the mounting and control
points along with some "pre-wire" for lights.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
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Hi Jim.
Nice going with the steam plant. Watching your build with interest. Can you clear up one matter that is worrying me on mine , how long a steam run do you get on that gas tank ? On the MH&B website ( http://www.model-steam-engines.com ) they post details of their catalogue gas tank and state it will give an hours run on a medium size engine . However although their tank is the same diameter as the kit supplied one it is twice as long (166 mm) . This would appear to say the kit tank will give less than half an hour run. Have you had a chance to assess this ? Help would be appreciated as my purchase was without a gas tank and I am unsure of the size to get .
cheers Balders
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Bonjour Balders,
Sorry to answer in James message but your question is very often asked and interests lot of people.
To my opinion, it is always better to have less gas than water, it prevents uncontrolled heating of the boiler (that can happen when you discuss with your friends while you navigate O0 ).
Besides this, two possible options to increase the autonomy of a gas tank :
- Add a dedicated filler valve to plug your gas bottle for the first heating part of the boiler
- Refill the tank after the heating of the boiler. This is what I do on my Cheddar plant which has a water pump so a very large autonomy without risk :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6q4yYpVcA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6q4yYpVcA8)
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The point offered by Raphael [gas volume to water use] is off course agreed :-))
The MB gas tanks with the simulated end flanges and bolts would look fine in an open launch, however the net effective length of 166 mm could be a 'long' element to consider placement
The MB tank gas volume is really not an incremental milestone as the diameter is only 32 mm, as compared to more squat tanks of a nominal 110 x 50 mm tank......which have a similar capacity for a smaller overall nominal footprint
Derek
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The point offered by Raphael [gas volume to water use] is off course agreed :-))
The MB gas tanks with the simulated end flanges and bolts would look fine in an open launch, however the net effective length of 166 mm could be a 'long' element to consider placement
The MB tank gas volume is really not an incremental milestone as the diameter is only 32 mm, as compared to more squat tanks of a nominal 110 x 50 mm tank......which have a similar capacity for a smaller overall nominal footprint
Derek
The advantage of the MH&B "sausage tank" is that it will go in places where you cannot fit the "pork pie" or squat style of tank. In the Topaz for instance you can slide it down the side of the boiler. Other options are limited without disguising it as deck cargo. However you would not want to go for too long a tank as this particular hull is rated to take 6Kg weight , the boiler, engine and gubbins weigh about 2.5 Kg , add a large amount of wood and fittings and you get nervous about filling the boiler.
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Yes naturally if the length is available for the longer gas tank, then horses for courses
Balance however becomes the issue in such a slender and light hull.......0.3 kg in balance when the gas tank is full :-)), -0.3 kg out of balance across the beam <*< when the tank is empty
MB also manufacture a complimentary oily water condensate tank of equal design and dimension to the gas tank....if these were placed side by side of the engine, would their combined use not only increase the out of balance moment?
Jim had adopted this twin side by side layout with his current build [although with shorter tanks], so it will be interesting to see how much of an out of balance moment this creates
Derek
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Hi Everyone,
One of the interesting things about being on this side of the pond is that we answer
postings about 12 hours apart, this means that you all get to debate while I am away and visa-versa.
So - to answer the questions about the gas tank capacity -
I do not know yet.
I have only made one test run, and since I did not have any load on the
engine, I ran it only about 1/3 open.
I ran for about 45 min total, still had about 1/4 of the sightglass left, and still had gas.
I agree with all the other speculations - it will be interesting to see if the boat rolls to the side
as the gas is used up and the waste tank fills. I am not too sure that there will be much of a change.
I think it will be after the engine is "run-in" a bit before I can get a good indication of gas usage and
timing. I have a BIX gas regulator in place to keep my pressure steady. That will also aid in extending the
run time. And I always use a stop watch.
Once I have run the engine a couple of times out in the open, I plan to put it in the hull and run
it fully linked to the propeller shaft.
I have a number of lighting fixtures and running lamps that need "pre-wired" - and I have have a
side project involving the controls for the throttle and reversing gear I will discuss soon.
Regards to all,
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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I am adding working running lights and lamps to the kit.
I made a Bow Light with red and green leds in a pair of lanterns left over from an old build.
Then I asked a friend who designs circuits to add some wires to some surface-mount LED's
That's my pen in the picture to provide scale.
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Hello again.
I took the led's from the above post, and installed them in my lamps
Here is the result:
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Bonjour Jim,
Beautiful, Topaz worths it :-))
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It might be worthwhile trying to obtain some warm white LED's rather than the blue/white ones you are using. These lamps will look more realistic with a more yellow colour light to represent the original oil lamp.
Jim
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Hello Again,
JimG - I think the phone camera colored the light a little. Plus I can dim them down to a warmer glow.
It is March 18, Sunny and 75F in Denver. So today is an excellent day to work out on the patio,
Added the rear deck, a chunk of Balsa. I then did some rough forming with a rasp, and then finally a sanding block.
Finish up with a layer of "Spot Putty" - when that is dry , more sanding to bring all into a condition to be ready to deck.
The boiler, engine and servo mounts are embedded in the fiberglass body putty, but parts of the surface are just painted wood.
Since the will be getting hot and wet, I felt it necessary to encase the entire wood block in a coat of clear fiberglass resin.
Just enough to solidify the whole thing and hopefully not add too much to the weight.
My next step is to begin to prime and paint the hull.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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I debated with myself all last week -
When to paint the hull?
I decided that I would paint it before starting on the interior.
I picked a deep dark Green, Then I added a special 2 part High Gloss Clear Coat.
It is going to sit in my garage and cure for the next week.
I figure that the Clear Coat will protect it during construction, although I
might cover it in clear plastic wrap just in case.
In between coats of paint, I tested the engine again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrx0mYXOps
This time I ran it for about 15 Min - only using about 1/3 of the sight glass.
So I anticipate a runtime of between 30 and 45 minutes.
Once the paint has cured, I will mount the engine and hook it up to the shaft.
Then we will see how it does.
Here are pics of the paint job.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Lovely job Jim. And yes, I would cover the paintwork with a protective layer while work continues. There will be lots of sharp and abrasive things in close proximity to the hull and it would be a shame if you needed a re-paint before the maiden voyage. Personally I would use some heavy gauge polythene taped to the hull around the gunwhale. It doesn't have to look neat, just be effective.
Enjoying your build - keep up the good work.
Greg
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Hello again,
So The paint has cured, and I have used some plastic wrap to protect it.
Here in the US we have a product called "Cling Wrap" that has a very this layer
of "micro-encapsulated" adhesive that makes it cling (hence the name) but not
really stick. Mostly used in the kitchen.
Now that the hull is ready, I have remounted the steam plant to allow for the design of the
R/C system. More on that later.
So Far So Good.
Regards,
Jim
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So I went to my local model boat club meeting today.
We are know as the Colorado Crew.
One of my friends has made me a micro-processor control
that takes the single throttle channel and converts it into
a dual servo control, one for the Steam Valve and one for the
reversing gear.
When the throttle is in the center, the steam valve is closed, and further movement
will change from forward to reverse and back again when the stick moves in the other direction.
Here is a short movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oglki_3nt3A
Next is doing some actual running in.
More to come.
Jim
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Jim...from what I see, the is a neutral [dead] band with the stick in mid position
1. how wide [number of clicks] on the ratchet is the dead band?...
2. is this dead band absolutely discernible?
3. can the actual reversing motion be slowed in speed?
Coming from the family of thought that these type or design of engine should actually be momentarily stopped prior to the reversing function is made......the speed of reversal is also a function that should be able to be tuned or timed
A number of manufacturers will show the reversal function being made in the blink of an eye without any form of engine speed reduction ......however these are usually without any form of load ie., the propeller shaft and propeller
You are also relying on the M3 SHCS in your engine and the 3-56 SHCS in the HUDCO shaft coupling in maintaining themselves <*<, ie., coping with the reversal of the momentum of forces <*< in the complete drive line
Again, I do understand that the actual reversing function uses the slowing inertia of motion so it will be interesting to hear from other members with more experience with this issue
Derek
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Derek,
The control is based on an arduino microprocessor. This means that the functions and speed are
100% adjustable.
1. - the current dead space is 1 click.
2. - Not really discernable, but it could be widened a bit to make it easier to hit without looking down - say 3 clicks.
3. - Yes I can have the "flip" slowed down.
I am planning on taking some time to get everything right with the Steam Plant before moving on to the rest of the interior of the
boat. Mostly because it would really suck to have to re do a lot in such a confined space.
My primary reasoning in doing it this way was to try to reduce the chances of loosing control of the boat because I
shifted at the wrong time. So by tying it to the throttle, I felt I would be less likely to end up dead in the water.
I am a little dyslexic and putting this on one stick makes sense. Another reason I do not do Cars or Planes.
Thanks for the insights
I Look forward hearing from others.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
You have beat me too it, I have been kicking that idea around for a while but not having a slide valve engine at the current time it always got moved to the back burner. Any chance of getting a copy of the source code posted and a circuit diagram.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Gerald,
I'll ask my friend. I am sure it will be OK, but until we got the bugs out I did not ask for the source.
---------
Everyone - Especially Raphael - As you might have experience with the Anton Crystal Engine.
I need some help with physics.
I am not getting a good head of steam up - and what I do get takes a LONG time Like 25 min for 20lbs/sq in.
Environment:
Temp 55 deg F.
Altitude - 5000 ft above sea level.
Std Butane/Propane Camping stove fuel. Use it in my other boats.
Jet is a 5
I adjusted the airflow on the jet orifice to get pretty little blue peaks on the ceramic Burner.
I can not get over 30 LBS/Sq In.
See the video to and compare to the previous ones to see what I am experiencing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey6Xrl9O8yc
Rough Starting, Not a good range of speed,
The addition of the prop and shaft are obviously a factor,
while they are not ball bearing smooth, it does turn pretty freely.
So - Any ideas anyone?
do I just need to do more run-ins?
Any intelligent analysis is welcome.
Thanks,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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Jim....the something that is wrong would appear to be ~~20% less air pressure in your City
With the Anton build, say Paris is ~~ 100 ft above sea level....so the atmospheric pressure is still close to 1 Bar or ~~ 14.*** PSI
You in Denver @ 5000 ft would experience ~~ 12.*** PSI or say ~~20% less air available for combustion
So I believe whilst you have tuned the gas burner to provide flame with light blue tips, it is the gross amount of air/oxygen available that is limiting full heating from the gas
So before you consider increasing the air draw holes in the gas nozzle carrier tube by 20% on surface area......could you pack the car & go for a drive down the hill %) until you reach near sea level & trial the burner heating time?
Be interested to hear what others [with greater experience] think
Derek
PS....talk to a technician from your local Gas authority & ask if they use different sized/orifice air draw nozzles in gas stoves or heater appliances in your Mile High city O0
The famous sherpa guides of Nepal reportedly serve garlic soup to patients with altitude sickness
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Jim.....the last paragraph from gas hot water people Rheem makes interesting reading <*<....
They even mention your city Denver CO..........
That garlic soup is smelling nicer by the moment O0.........Derek
_________________________________________________________________
Balancing the fuel-air mixture is accomplished by doing one of two things: derating the water heater or devaluing the gas fuel. Derating the water heater affects only the heater and is accomplished by replacing the orifice in the burner assembly. Devaluing the gas fuel affects only the gas and is accomplished by the local gas utility. In some areas of the country, such as Denver, CO., the local gas utility derates the BTU value of the fuel from 1050 BTUs (the BTU value at sea level) to equal the normal average altitude of the area.
If a water heater is modified for high altitude, then either the heater must be derated or the fuel must be devalued. You must do one or the other - not both!
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Jim......just a thought.....check your boiler Test Certificate.....it may be from MH&B, or Martin Bayless
Why not pen a note to the Author/Testing Authority clearly outlining both your location/elevation/ambient temperature together with your boiler and gas fill and heating times detail and ask the begging question
Reading the full article from Rheem would suggest the circumstances of high elevation and lower air pressure are problematical for conventional gas combustion
Derek
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_kuToz_XSAhWJ6YMKHXuQAbwQFggrMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rheem.com%2Fdocs%2FFetchDocument.aspx%3FID%3D60b83cc1-ff36-4b55-b757-ac5a6b665761&usg=AFQjCNELbhYGU13idFBgvrUMYOFt5Qr7wA&bvm=bv.150729734,d.cGc
Only other question is why does the Lady M & The Greyhounds Revenge not suffer such combustion issues? :embarrassed:
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Hello all,
I live at 4500 ft elevation in California, and I have a Martin Baylis triple and I have no problem reaching 60psi in short order. I normally run it a 45-50psi without any problems because the blow valve is set for 60psi.
Kind regards,
Bob
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Hello!
I do not have enough element to tell the solution, but...
I do not think that your problem is coming from a lack of O2. The %age of O2 being (+/-) the same whatever the altitude; only the Atm. Pres changes.
Not enough pressure in your gas tank will not help for sure. Above all if it's cold. Low Temp = Low Press. = weak blow.
At 5000 ft theatmosphéric pressure is lower, but good enough to work out your Steam Plant.
Most of the time, if the boiler needs more than 10 min to hardly reach 25/30 psi, it is due to the jet partly plugged in by debris. It happens more often that we believe.
Fortunately, we have here , people steaming the same plant as yours, in the Alps , at 1600 m (+/- 5300 ft) by 10°C , with no problem.
The temperature may be one, though. Yesterday, I sailed (at sea level) with a ambiant temp of 16°C. My burner supplied by 100% Butane gas. The pressure in my gas tank was too low (0.2 bar) to have a good flare. By using then, 30/70 mixture, the burner spitted as a Saudi flare in a good day. So temp may be the issue more than the altitude.
Sailing below 7°C is a problem in term of positive burner gas supply, but can be solve by using liquide phase.
The other option is to insert a thermic bridge between the gas tank and the burner. Just a piece of brass, that you can remove for hot days.
I would conclude by saying that the combination of a plugged jet and a low temp may give you hassles.But not the %age of O2.
Remember that the optimum temp for steaming is when the beer is at the right temp! %)
(except for freezed Budweiser drinkers! {-) )
Concerning your engine, I have the feeling that the difficulty you have to restart it after a STOP is due to the synchronisation of 1/4 turn valve opening and the slide valve movement.
I think that the main steam valve opens (just a crack is enough) to pressure up the slide valve sticking it against the wall. No pressure on the other side as you stopped.
Then the servo is too weak to move this slide valve enough to allow some steam to pass and allowing the machine to run.
Maybe something to reconsider. Use one servo (stronger) for each function.
Sorry to be so talkative , but I do not see nothing wrong with your plant. I don't know if I gave the right solution, but I would look in this direction first.
Thanks for reading and sorry to be so long. Hoping you understand my "globish". %)
Regards.
MODELISME BATEAU A VAPEUR (http://modelismenavalradioc.nouvellestar6.com/c9-modelisme-bateau-a-vapeur)
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Bob, Derek, KBIO,
Thanks for the advice. I am thinking that I am going to start over on the engine servo linkages and alignment.
I have removed the boiler and engine from the hull, and will run some more test runs, looking at the servo speed
and throw distances. I will also look at the alignment with the prop shaft, it looks real close, but maybe it can be better.
At the same time I am going to start on the paneling and bulkheads.
I have two other boats running on the same fuel mixture. Both run great at this altitude. So looking at how the fuel may be
delivered, clogged jets, or temp may be something to look at. The servo motion and speed seem too jerky, that sudden in-rush of
steam may be pegging the slidevalve like KBIO said. So - back to the drawing board.
Thanks for responding,
This is why I post here.
Regards to all,
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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Hi Jim from my own past experience and others on this forum have agreed that ceramic burners on horizontal boilers do not supply anywhere near the energy of a gauze type flame burner ,something like sitting in front of the fire compared to being actually in the fire as most horizontal boilers have cross tubes that need plenty of heat.
Ceramics are fine on vertical boilers as the heat rises thru the tubes and further helped by the exhaust draft.
Your steam plant looks great and don't know if you have run your engine in yet so perhaps let run some more before attempting adjustments,would also consider a small flywheel which I don't think would be out of place keep up the great work
cheers
John
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Thanks again for all the advice.
I went back to basics, and pulled the engine out of the hull.
Then I ran it again, and this time I paid greater attention to
the steam valve.
Turns out that the critical angles are less than 45degrees.
More like about 30. So with such a short throw, my servo
must move in a slower, steadier motion.
As it was in the earlier movie clip, the servo was moving thru the
range of control in about 3 clicks of the joystick - way too fast.
So I'll rework the control program to slow it all down to give greater
control.
As to the pressure issues - I may have been overfilling and there was not enough
headspace to build up pressure. The top of the sight glass is right at the top of the boiler
and unless you stop at about 7/8 full, there is just too much.
So, more tests and trial runs to come.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
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All,
If you're not into micro-processor programming, ACTion has an equivalent single stick direction/throttle controller for steam engines. I haven't had a pond period with my TVR1A so I can't comment on it yet.
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P105.pdf
Ken/Landlocked
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Ken,
I appreciate the info. As will some others as well, I am sure.
My microprocessor control is a project with another member of our club,
so we will keep on tweaking it.
In the meantime, it is time to get started on the paneling.
Thanks for reading, and all comments are welcome.
Jim Pope
Denver,CO
USA
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Just clicked onto this thread , great build ,if you are having problems raising pressure it might be worth checking the seal on the gas jet. A friends steam plant was having similar issues after trying out a number of changes plumbers tape was added to the thread of the no.5 jet instant improvement in the burner performance problem solved.
Keep the updates coming.
Mark
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Hello! :-))
[/size]Good, this a good gain of experience.
[/size]This is also an important point to check.
[/size]Too much water is effectively, not good at all.
[/size]3/4 of the total capacity is the limit. I load with 2/3 now. I want steam not boiling potatoes and I want to avoid draining water in the outlet.
[/size]Remember that you need 6 to 7 time more energy (including the boiler mass itself) to vaporize from boiling water to 100% steam that you need to bring the water at ebullition temp. %)
[/size]Your plant is well thought, and I am sure that after some adjustments and help from the Mayhemers, you'll enjoy it. :-))
[/size]Let's us know. Good days and high temps are here soon and you'll can get away from it.
Regards. ok2
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KBIO and all -
I really think my problem is overfilling the boiler.
So I will make a bunch of runs at 3/4 and 2/3 and see
what the steamup as well as the total steaming times are.
It snowed here last night and the workshop was almost too cold
to spend a lot of time in. So It will have to wait until next weekend.
Thanks for the encouraging remarks.
Regards to all,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Hello JP.
If you sail , when snowing, and the boiler full , you may have find where your problem is, then!! O0 Unless using pure Propane! And still! :embarrassed:
Attached a quick calculator sheet to allow you to know what the max volume to fill your boiler with :
Volumetric - or Cubic Thermal Expansion - Engineering ToolBox (https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjluq6jr4XTAhVrC8AKHfRICdgQFggyMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engineeringtoolbox.com%2Fvolumetric-temperature-expansion-d_315.html&usg=AFQjCNGL0f6spkffCGmAhvoLAjIco-yNuQ&sig2=7b7CgXX5PNbq4bkUR2I4ag&bvm=bv.151325232,d.ZGg)
If the total boiler contains 800 cc (you can work it out in Gals) the total dilated volume @ 100°C will be 848cc.
You need to deduct 25/30% of void space for a safe cushion of steam on the top and to avoid draining hot water in your engine line.
So 800cc - 30% = 560cc of water should keep your nose away from problems. (normally) %)
As you always work at this temp , you can keep in mind the augmentation of the volume of 50cc.
I would conclude that : "Steaming without having problem, is boring!" %%
Have a good time steaming in Colorado. :-))
Cheers!
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Well here it is - one week later and the temp is 80 degrees out.
Just goes to show you how the weather can vary in a Colorado springtime.
So - back to paneling. I finished the side strips, and started the process of
fitting the bulkheads.
More Pics:
-
Ahhhhhhh.....that Edwardian twin tone vertical panelling always looks beautiful :-)).......[in the right place :kiss:]
It also reflects well when the boiler lagging is of uniform hue....
One question not asked Jim %)......did you experience any boiler howling when you did your initial steam trials?
Derek
-
Derek,
I did hear some howling, but was more focused on the engine.
so I did not keep track of when it was happening.
So - I must ask - What is the significance?
Thx,
Jim
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more pics on the planking process
Thanks for reading.
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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More Planking.
I SEEK OPINIONS:
White Caulking or Black Caulking? The Stain I am using
on the Pear Planks is coming out dark. I am tempted to
switch to the White Caulk.
So - WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Thanks,
Jim
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Hullo Jim
The deck planking caulking must be the vessel owners preference %)....some say that white will show irregularities more than black.....[although this does not appear to be the case as you display below]
With your Pear timber, yes most varnished/oiled/polyurethane type finishes will tend to slightly darken the timber surfaces .......adding stain can only increase the depth of the darkened surface
Timber even when preserved as above, will also darken with heat or sunlight >>:-(
Derek
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I think a traditional type of vessel like this would always have had black caulking. I think you will find that white is a modern sealant. Also, on a steamboat, I would imagine that it would be difficult to keep the white from getting stained no matter how many galley slaves you had at your disposal to clean the boat!
Colin
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My view is that the caulk should be in contrast to the planking colour. If you are leaving the deck planks an unstained blond colour then black caulk is appropriate to accentuate it . If you are staining the deck planks a dark colour then perhaps white caulk. The material supplied in the Topaz kit is black card.
-
They both look great, personally I would go with the black.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
black caulking :-)) ,,,BLACK caulking , will look best on a steam launch..
-
Gentlemen,
Another bit of guidance please.
If you review the Wicksteed build log at:
http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/martenhowes-and-baylis-topaz.html (http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/martenhowes-and-baylis-topaz.html)
I am looking at the decking. Is it my imagination or are the deck planks made up of the lime strips
with the pear (from the precut pieces) on the outside.
If you look at the AFT DECK. Did he continue to use Lime, or was that Pear? Looks like a darker color
from the BOW and the Lower Decks of the Fore-Cockpit and Rear Seating Area.
Thanks,
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I looked at the photos and it appears to me to be more of a photographic lighting situation problem. The bow seems to be lit with a flat soft diffused light due to the very soft shadows. The aft seems to be lit with a point source or hard light with very deep and sharp shadows. I really believe it is the type of light used and exposure settings that make it appear so differently. I don't think he used different woods for the bow and stern.
Kund regards,
Bob
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Morning Jim....if you revisit the images, it would appear that the snaps of the stern planking is complete with the semi matte varnish, whereas the bow planking is still under construction and yet to be varnished
Just like brickwork %)......imagine if the proud owner of the real launch arrived to find two different types of timber had been used between FWD & AFT planking <*<
Derek
-
I think that "from the box" pear is the provided wood for all the decks and edgings, The kit is a reconstruction of a typical Windermere steamer of the time so no point in trying to replicate exactly how someone elses model is precisely . Because I liked the appearance of different woods I deliberately used a lighter wood for the planking than the side edging. For obtaining a more even colour the kit instructions suggest using some stain varnish (Blackfriars light oak) to bring lighter pear strips darker. But this is one particular area to do your own thing without worrying about authenticity, hey there never was an original TOPAZ was there :
https://www.windermerejetty.org/collection/swallow
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Baldrick,
I did not realize that the beautiful Emerald was your creation.
I must thank you for your detailed build log. It has really given me
great guidance.
Thanks for setting the record straight. I have been staining the pear
a deeper color, I think I will keep that up.
Regards,
Jim
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No Emerald is not mine , wish it was . But what in my clumsy way I was trying to say is that the model can be built up to the whim of the person making it and no strict adherence needs to be made to copying the MH&B original design . The following link is to a model (Josephine)built from a Topaz kit but expressing the builders very different take on the subject.
http://www.modelboats.co.uk/sites/2/images/member_albums/1557/717596.jpg
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Baldrick,
I understand your point. And I agree.
Mostly because I am not a student at the historical level on these fine craft.
Since I do not have the knowledge to build a 100% (or close to that) accurate model,
then my own interpretations will have to do.
In that light, I will get back to the fun part, building this boat.
I started on the bulkhead today, and decided that the forward one next to the boiler
should have some heat protection. I have some asbestos and lined the opening over the
burner and the face right next to the end of the boiler.
More to come,
Thanks for reading.
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
-
I also decided to add a pan under the engine, just to catch the splatters.
Thx,
Jim Pope
-
Looking really nice keep the progress photos coming. :-))
-
Hello again,
If you are following this thread, you might have noticed that
I feel that talking about the mistakes I have made and how I corrected them is an important part of the build.
So - one of the things I noticed while trying to run-in the drive train is that it seemed to be lagging and struggling.
At first I thought that the driveshaft might have gotten bent or mis-aligned. However when the engine is removed
the shaft turns fairly easily.
So then I put the engine back in - this time WITHOUT the U-Joint.
Well - shiver me timbers matey -
the shafts are not even pointing at each other.
In order for the U-Joint to work correctly the two shafts need to be pointed at each other.
They do not have to be exactly straight in line, but the ends of the two shafts need
to be aligned in such a way that there is no strain put on each piece by the other.
So I added some shims under the back of the engine to bring the shaft up to meet the driveshaft.
Some pics:
-
Time to start working on the Decks.
-
I have always tried to ensure that the drive and prop shaft are dead in line before fitting a universal coupling, an alternative is to use a double coupling these always run very smooth.
-
I try to set shafts up with a solid coupling, then when things are inline switch to a flex coupling.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
I found this arrangement has worked well for five years now with no sign of wear. My steam plant however is removable in one go hence this design. I don't even bother to put the pegs through the holes in the yoke. Boat is looking really good.
Jerry.
-
I have always tried to ensure that the drive and prop shaft are dead in line before fitting a universal coupling, an alternative is to use a double coupling these always run very smooth.
Its smooth because a double Cardan joint is the way the job is supposed to be done. Just look at the driver shaft in your car.
Model boaters always insist on a single cardan joint. This isn't a proper universal set up. It can not possibly compensate for misalignment
John
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Gerald and Jerry,
I had gotten everything aligned in the beginning. Then I decided to coat all the
wood in the bottom of the hull with a coat of clear fiberglass to act as a stabilizer and waterproof it.
This must have shifted things out of wack.
The kit comes with the U-Joint, and the tolerances are so close that I did not even have room for a
flywheel. I'll come back to the engine again in a couple of days, but I wanted to get the deck done first.
As to the deck, I decided to attach the outside "side decks" first and then fill in the middle. I am debating the
makeup of the middle planks. and whether I will add come inlays.
Tomorrow is our annual "Ice Breaker Regatta" with my club, The Colorado Crew, at our local city park.
So I did not get as much done today as I expected.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
More Pics:
-
Looking good ,have you started on the cabin ?
-
No Cabin just yet.
I want to finish the decks first.
I decided to take a little departure and add an inlay strip
to the deck. I used this in my other boats, it has become
a kind of trademark.
So far so good.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
-
Finished the aft deck planking.
a few more details and then the decks can start to get their
topcoats.
More Pics:
-
That looks great the checker board effect makes all the difference.
-
Thanks for following this build.
I worked on the deck of the Front Cockpit today.
I decided to continue the theme of the inlay.
The upper decking has one coat of top varnish.
More to come.
Here's pics:
-
So. I am a believer in running lights. The MH&B kit does not include any.
So I made some of my own and added the internal connection block.
Then I made the benches for the front cockpit. They were a little tricky as they needed
to be on a slant.
Finally - putting it all together.
Here are pics:
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
-
She is stunningly beautiful especially with that chequer strip and candy stripe internal planking.
-
Time to start working on the Salon.
First the sides.
Pics:
-
Staring to assemble the salon sides.
They need a slight bow in order to follow the curve of the sides.
-
now starting on the doors and windows
-
Two finished doors.
More to come.
-
Working on the saloon.
I built the doors, and decided to make the rear ones open and shut.
I did not have any real small hinges so I cut some slightly larger ones down.
I may give up but for now I am going to give it a try.
One other thing I am finding is that the pear pieces do not always take a finish
to the same hue. So I am prefinishing all the pieces and the strips used to
make up the saloon.
I believe in a certain symmetry so I want to match up the different hues to
make a pattern I like.
More pics.
Thanks for reading.
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
-
I must admit that I was also disappointed that the doors in he kit were not hinged, However I was having such a battle with the cabin construction in general that I decided to go with them fixed.
-
Jim, have you tried searching dollshouse suppliers for hinges? I think you will find a range of styles at a scale that matches your splendid boat.
You are certainly moving on very quickly with this - you'll be steaming in no time!
Greg
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Baldrick and Greg,
Thanks for the comments. Following your advice I looked on the net for dollhouse hinges and found some
on Amazon. As it turned out they are about the same size as mine when I cut them in half.
So I am going to try them. A bird in the hand - don't you know.
Here is one end of the saloon under construction.
Thanks,
Jim
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I continued to work on the ends of the saloon.
Each piece was sanded and given a coat of Spar Varnish.
This established the hue I spoke of earlier.
Then I matched up the pieces to give me the symmetry I like
rather than just pick at random.
Then I decided to add some of the inlays to continue the theme
I started in the bow. I also added the cut down hinges.
I know that the hinges are placed kinda funny but the upper part
of the doors and the walls need to support the window panes and
it would have been much harder if there was a hinge in the middle of the
window area.
Each assembly will receive additional coats of varnish later.
So some pics:
-
Time to start playing with putting the sides on and seeing how it might
start to fit in the hull.
One thing I am noticing is that various assemblies are going to need some
"fitting" together. Maybe more than I expected.
Note: I have not finished cutting out the windows yet. By that I mean that MH&B
left some pieces of wood in the corners of the end windows to give some structure.
You are supposed to cut it out sometime before you are finished.
More Pics:
-
Now I need to look harder at the assembly process.
What I noticed is that you have to line up the bottom of the windows
between the sides and the ends.
This means that the sides I thought I had done such a great job on
are, in fact, too high. After you get things lined up right you are faced with
having to trim off the tops of both sides.
I went back over the construction of the sides and I think I did it all
correctly. There is a note on the drawing that you have to trim it down
to fit the curves of the end pieces.
I just did not expect to have trim so much.
It is going to be interesting to figure out how I am
going to do the trimming.
Here are more Pics:
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Hullo Jim.....I think the opened cabin doors facing the stern tiled quarter deck will add to the realism of the intent :-))......being a launch cabin with the stern doors open to catch some breeze...or whatever O0
Derek
PS.....have you managed a displacement water test with the steam plant and other simulated weight accessories?
-
Hi Jim .
On mine I found that a small wood plane was my tool for reducing the heights of the window sides I used a Stanley No 2 and made sure it was very sharp.Taking off a very fine shaving at a time. You have to go very carefully at this point because all that is holding the structure together is the end to end glued joints at the corners although the 5mm stringer at the top of the window gives some rigidity providing it is also glued on the two end sections . I must admit to having glued in a few reinforcing fillets behind the corners on mine to give it more strength. Ps With your outward opening rear doors watch the drop as the end frame is tilted at 6degrees and the door bottom will need to clear the deck planking in the rear foot well .
I am in awe at your lovely clean construction , fine work.
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Derek and Baldrick,
Thanks for the comments.
I used a slightly more "brute force" method - A coping saw setup on an angle.
I used a piece of scrap as a fence.
It came out OK, just needed a little cleanup afterwords.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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The hinges I cut down did not work well.
So I bought these on Amazon
20 w/nails for $7.95 USD. Free shipping.
2 day delivery -
So now I will "re-hang" the doors.
Thanks for reading-
Jim Pope
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HOW DO YOU CUT PERSPEX FOR WINDOWS?
Any techniques welcome!
Thanks,
Jim
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Fretsaw with very fine blade.
See if you can find a jewelers supplier with them as they break easily and often cheaper.
Various grades available.
I sand small amounts on my power sander, fixed sideways to a bench with a big clamp.
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HOW DO YOU CUT PERSPEX FOR WINDOWS?
Any techniques welcome!
Thanks,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Ask your Perspex supplier for a scoring tool. Mine looked like a box cutter, but the blade was different. Instead of being beveled to a sharp point it edge was square. You ran it down the line you wanted to cut using a strait edge, scoring a line. You then snapped the piece like you would glass. For compound curves you can use a fretsaw/jigsaw etc, the problem being you have to cut very slow so you cut the plastic and not melt it. I did some using a CNC machine at one time with lots of flood coolant, worked great, but was a chore to clean up.
Gerald.
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the problem being you have to cut very slow so you cut the plastic and not melt it.
Gerald.
If you stick some masking tape along the line that you're cutting the adhesive acts as a lubricant and the Perspex won't weld itself back together :-))
As you've suggested - straight lines are best scored and snapped O0
Hope this helps
Mark
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Yep thats the way I did my windows. I scored a line using a stanley knife and safety edge and then simply snapped along the line like a piece of glass. I found it to be a very accurate way of making windows and also very quick too. By the way your build is looking awesome :-))
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Bonjour,
Very uncommon in France, I have seen a beautiful Topaz and an OPAL to be enhanced during our VAP IDF steam event :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDUHE-z80Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDUHE-z80Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEHLZNv3beo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEHLZNv3beo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhh1LPqjc-U&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhh1LPqjc-U&t=2s)
And I have tried to add several Enflish words in my videos ok2
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Everyone,
Thanks for the advice. I found a scriber in a drawer of strange knives I got from my father.
Never did know what it was for. As the blade is kind of backwards. Now I know.
Raphael - your friends boats are magnificent! I hope my measures up when I am done.
This weekend marks the average time for the past freeze. And here in the states at least
it is Mother's Day. So I spent the weekend getting the vegetable garden ready for planting
and cleaning up the fountains. Not a lot of time left over for work on the boat.
I did start the mounting of those tiny hinges.
More to come in the next weeks.
Regards,
Jim
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Bonjour Raphael great videos and lovely models,and well done with your English. :-))
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Fit the new hinges the final way in.
They look a lot better than previously.
Now to play with the floor of the saloon.
More to come.
Here is a pic.
Jim
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I started to layout the floor of the saloon.
That is when I discovered that the black & white "tile floor"
was wrinkled and not what I wanted to use.
I also did not like the bright blue fake carpet.
So - Time to play with ideas and see what I like.
Here is my thought on the Checkered Floor.
Thanks for reading,
Jim
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Floor finished with the first coat of varnish.
Thx,
Jim
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The floor looks good to me especially as it uses up the marquetry inlay material.
-
Now attaching the floor to the saloon.
Then I spent the day on electrical connections.
Have to get the LED lighting ready and all the wires
routed before I glue the saloon into the hull.
More pics:
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Very nice work. Why don't you make the saloon removable? Should be much easier to acces things later on.
-
On the Topaz the saloon and the floor attached lift out of the hull as an entity (providing you have detached the servo cables)
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I think that is a great idea.
It will require some "Yankee Ingenuity" to make some things
permanent and some parts removeable (like the rear seats)
but It should be doable, and anything worth doing id worth doing right.
More pics to come next week.
Thank you everyone for your comments.
Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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After taking Kno3 and Baldrick's suggestions to heart,
I started working on the read cockpit seats.
I want to attach them to the rear saloon decked floor
so they come in and out with the saloon.
I also needed to come up with the finishes and stains I want to use
on the interior pieces and walls
So here is the rear seat bench.
With cutouts for the power switch, and a hole for the charging socket.
I have decided to keep the pear panels "natural"
with the cross-pieces a darker mahogany stain.
Thanks for reading,
Jim
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Mounted the rear seat base to the deck.
Inserted the on/off switch and the charging socket.
Staring to work on the interior walls and features.
Here are a couple of pics.
Regards,
Jim
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and a little bit more.
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Ahah....
That black studded Grade 1 English Cow Hide upholstery looks superb :kiss: ........can just imagine the owners sipping their G&T's seated on this beautiful stern sunken deck lounge........
Derek
PS Jim.......
Have you completed the flotation/displacement trim level test :o that I questioned "Reply #126" on: May 10, 2017?
-
The Head -
The plans for the Head (WC) show a fake hinged seat.
Well, what good is a seat if you can not leave it "up"?
So I built it with working hinges.
- Questions: On these types of launches, did the head just dump in the lake?
Would there be any water in the bowl - similar to today's toilets?
I am trying to figure out if there should be any "liquid" in the bowl.
I am continuing to build the interior pieces of the saloon.
My wife is wondering why I never built doll houses for my daughters.
Here are some pics.
Thanks for reading.
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Hi Jim .
to address your question , the fittings pack includes two hull/bulkhead fittings for discharges from 1) the sink so the second must be the closet. This would not have been trapped , just washed through with a jug of lake water. Horrible thought but in Victorian times environmental issues had not appeared over the horizon .
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My wife is wondering why I never built doll houses for my daughters.
I have had this comment as well, as I have 2 daughters. Mind you, it was well before my modelling interest came into view.
Regarding the 'head', we never left loose water there on our yacht because of slop when sailing.
Hope this helps
ken
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I would think that the head worked similar to the ones on the trains of my youth. No standing water in them, water flushed them when chain pulled. trap opened at bottom (on the trains you could see the tracks, a favorite prank was to use the head in tail end car, flush toilet paper down in long stream and close trap on tail end. then go to back platform and see the streamer of paper. You will have to add a holding tank over the top of the closet with a pull chain.
Gerald.
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Bonjour,
Never seen an up water tank with a chain in a boat. How would it be filled ? With a pump ? I do not imagine a generator on a Windermere steam launch, otherwise its kettle would have been electric {-)
Last time I took a boat and used its toilet, I had to press a pedal with a foot and activated a pump with the hand.
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OK, Got it.
The little hand pump probably just pulls in from the lake and
rinses the bowl.
So - no water in the bowl.
I have continued to work on the walls and interior of the saloon.
More to come.
Float test tomorrow I think.
Regards,
Jim
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A while ago I showed the addition of LED's to the lanterns supplied in the kit.
Here is a pic of the installation.
If you look closely, you can see the wires
on either side of the darker wood.
More to come.
Jim
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Time to start working on the roof.
-
a couple more pics.
-
So here is a quick view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdTKEuTvv_A
I am finding that the vertical alignment of the saloon may need some
adjustment in order have the various floorboards clear the running gear.
Still working it all out.
Have a good week,
Jim Pope
Denver, Colorado
USA
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Looking very handsome
-
I have started to add fittings and expand on the excellent collection
MH&B provided with some of my own.
I added some gauges to the position inside the saloon.
I added some tie-down chains to the boathooks on the
roof.
I had to shorten the "skylight" windows over the engine
and next I will install the steps and the rest of the
flooring.
I also cut all the perspex for the windows, but I have not put
them in yet. My lady is making some curtains, and I figured
that it will be easier to install them before I put in the "glass".
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
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Hi love the gauges are they just brass rings with printed decals,kind regards Allan
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I used portholes for gauges.
I got them from RBModels in Poland.
I have gotten excellent service from them. Highly recommended.
They are a ring with a "ridge" that would enable you to
"insert" them into a hull. They also have a small
clear rubber/plastic insert to emulate glass.
The faces are decals.
I think they worked out pretty well.
Thanks for the comments.
Jim
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Thanks for that Jim look great and authentic, kind regards Allan.
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Now I am starting on the lower decks.
This is where I kinda got bit on the butt.
The spacing is off.
I had to raise the saloon to clear the driveshaft.
That put the starting point for the lowest deck up
about 3/8 of an inch.
Now that I have started to build the steps and decking
using the pre-cut pieces I find that I have a shallow first step off the gunwales,
I kinda need to keep the height on the "last step" as the lowest pieces just clear the condensate tank on the port side
and are exactly where they need to be to cover the shifting servo on the starboard side.
SO - given that - here is the question - and I will put it up for comments:
Do I set the height of the tallest step, the first one off the gunwales,
at the same height increment as the bottom step? this means that the
first step off the gunwales is shallow and the second and third steps are the same.
OR - Do I half the distance to make the first and second steps the same height
but the last one is deeper?
What are your thoughts?
Here is a pic.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Pope
Denver,Colorado
USA
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Hi Jim......just thinking, steps and the placement/spacing was a matter of critical importance even in yesteryear
Thinking of descending, the 1st & 2nd steps should be of constant rate, then the 3rd or final step down could be to also be of the same rate and onto a grid or mat placed on the engine room floor plates
This then ensures uniformity for balance of your vessel crew or staff. the grid could also be like the ones designed to ensure dirty/oily engine room boots do not mark the floor of the cabin %)
Visually this may also provide the more appealing look O0
Derek
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Hi Jim,
I think Derek has the right idea. Having lived and worked in a number of places with uneven step depths, then always trip you up and cause falls (fortunately m current house only has one step that is shorter than the others, only fallen once because of it). You are doing a really superb job on this model, I have enjoyed watching it being built.
Regards,
Gerald.
PS I am going to make some Mint chocolate chip cookies soon, so if any of your Elves start swimming north on Lake Ontario you will know the cause.
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Gerald and Derek,
I re-sized the steps to even things out.
Here are some pics of the results.
There were taken before the final adjustments,
but I think they show where I am heading.
Thanks for reading,
Jim
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I remembered today that I needed to add control for the whistle - every steamer needs a whistle!
So I added a servo under the floorboards and worked out a chain and pulley linkage.
More pics:
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Bonjour Jim,
:-)) :-)) :-)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnCo1rrBkU
-
Here is a short video on the progress so far.
Added some of the fittings and the step treads.
Waiting on the curtains, and then I'll see about the rear canopy.
Not long now. Definitely time for the float test in the guest bathtub.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmSvUvQyFk
Enjoy
Jim
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She Floats!
Sits flat, no list. the water line is spot on.
I received permission to use the wife's tub for a test.
The water did not show up well, so I used the grandkids
ducky to try and point out the level.
I put as much as I could on her first.
Here she is:
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Excellent Jim.....
I hope the boiler and gas a tank were both full %).......that would make a lovely bath for all of the 4 legged friends {-)
Derek
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Derek,
The girls all go to the groomer for a spa day once a month.
As to the tanks - yes both were full.
Although I did not have anyone sitting on the WC.
More to come - almost finished.
Thanks for reading
Jim
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Really looks great.
Gerald.
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I struggled with the concept of the rear canopy.
Should I put it on, or not.
So I built it. and made it semi-removeable.
I did not do the best job of attaching the canvas.
I might try again.
The instructions did say:
"Remember that it should look like a canvas pulled over a frame and not like an airplane wing"
So here is the result.
-
I would leave or off, viewed from above it covers too much of that lovely work
-
I decided to leave it off, Concluded that the cloth of the canopy would get dusty and stained and would soon be discarded
-
Spent part of the day (until my garage got over 95 deg F)and worked on the railings.I also think I will remove the canopy.
So I am just about done.At least with the kit as it was supplied.
Now I need to add the little details to take it a step further:
1. A Driver and Passenger and a Greyhound of course!2. Soap dish for the sink.3. A selection of wine4. A "Victrola" wind up record player.5. A selection of MP3 files on a micro-player w/hidden speakers of 1900 era records.6. Curtains - on rods with "tie-back" chains.7. Safety Chains across the steps.
So a little more to come before she hits the water.
More pics:
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Beautiful job Jim. Thanks for sharing the build with us. Looking forward to the maiden voyage!
Greg
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Not quite done yet.
Added Curtains.
Made by my lovely wife. Although she said if I needed moreI could make them myself.
Getting Closer
Thanks for reading,Jim
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One of the add-ons I want to put in are a wind-up old style record player or Victrola.
So of course it had to play.
So I have found the smallest MP3 player I have seen.I mounted it under the cushion of the rear seats.I have ordered some miniature speakers from
a Train company called TrainTek. I hope to fit theminside the base of the Victrola.
This is how it came out:
I also added some "safety chains" across the steps.
-
And of course:
Just like every Steam Plant needs a Whistle,
Every launch needs a Hound.(in this case a puppy)
Thanks for all the comments,
Regards,
Jim PopeDenver, COUSA
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Morning Jim.......all of these brass cleats & pins & chains etc......'look a million$'......were they part of the Kit?...or did you source extras?
The handrail stanchions :-)) ....are they Claw or Club base fitments?
Derek
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Derek,
Not sure what you mean by:
"are they Claw or Club base fitments?"
Most of the deck fittings came with the kit. One of the reasons the kits are so expensive.I added the chains, door and wc hinges.
The stanchions are "two holes" and are the same as I see from a number of places, but MH&B includedadditional brass "donuts" as a base. They slipped over the shaft and were glued down.
Thanks for the comments.
Jim
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Jim, in my SL Wear for music I used a similar dolls house wind up gramophone, for the sound, I used an iPod nano, I think it's called. I cut the ear buds off, keeping the control switch. I soldered the ends to both sides of a 6 watts per channel miniature audio amplifier chip from eBay ($3). Soldered 2x2" speakers to the outputs and powered the chip with a 4 cell receiver pack. It's quite loud enough. I'm dusting the launch off for The Mersey River Festival today so will get some pictures for you.
Your model looks really good and I'm looking forward to some videos. Well done.
Jerry.
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Final details added:
1.Name Plate
2. Striping
3. Captain
4. First Mate
She is going on the water this weekend.
-
:-) Hello;
I am building this magnificent boat and the addition of all these very well made accessories, but a question comes to mind, and weight.
Sincerely and marveled :-))
François
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Have you done a tank test yet?
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Yes I put her in the tub.Trim and flat, no additional weight needed.
First "sea trials" tomorrow.
Francois,Bon Jour-(that's all the french I know)
The added weight was minimal. and I substituted like-for-like in most cases.
example - the thin aluminum "diamond plate" went in replacement for the original deck under and beside the engine.
The Pilot and First Mate are of minimal weight, mostly cloth. And the Greyhound is just a puppy.The rest of addons are carefully distributed side-to-side.
I hope we can see your build in the future.
Regards,Jim
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Would love to sees a video, good luck 🍀
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She is going on the water this weekend.
I've followed your build with interest as I'm also building a Topaz - it'd be great to see video of your "sea trials".
Mark
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Here she is.
On the water for the first time,She needs a little trimming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWD16jaqrBc
Thanks for watching,See you next bulid.
Jim PopeDenver, Colorado
USA
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Great looking model and an enjoyable build thanks for sharing.
-
Look great on the water, very well done.
Gerald.
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Jim - your model looks and sounds fabulous on the water :-))
Many thanks for taking the time to share your build.
Mark
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Thanks Jim.....she is superb O0....[not sure about that dodgey looking <*< 1st Mate type helmsman though] Derek
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Excellent job! Look great on the pond.