Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Tug-Kenny RIP on June 28, 2017, 11:10:12 am
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What ever is a Greek BIRENE, I hear you ask.
A Greek/Athenian Bireme is an early craft built around 480 BC.
Here is a picture of one that I propose to scratch build. She will have 22 oarsmen mechanically driven by electric motors and gadget things to accurately simulate the rowing motion. If I ever get more confident, then the crew will be increased to maybe 44.
I have already started making the OARS and experimented with drive mechanisms. I then made ONE single man rowing and the actions his body have to go through to execute this task. This project should occupy my mind for a while. %)
If you think it's easy, then please follow me through this journey of discovery as I work through the design and construction, which lies ahead.
Your comments (and answers) will be very welcome.
Here is the original
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It's Jason and the Argonauts, watch out for the big bronze bloke!
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Now THAT is a challenge Kenny. Effective rowing boats with a single oarsman have been rare, mainly because it is a complex set of movements to replicate mechanically, but to have a whole Bireme off them - I doff my cap to you sir.
Reversing the action is equally tough to achieve as the movements are different to forwards. To steer, back up, and manoeuvre . . . I shall be following this thread with great interest :-))
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Hi all, we used to have a modeller who was interested in and built biremes and triremes all with working oars and able to move in the water. We had them at our club exhibution some 20 odd years ago I will see if I can find some pictures.
regards Roy
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A colleague at Black Park has a wonderful rowing boat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6m-cyclMq8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6m-cyclMq8)
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I think there are a variety of mechanisms that could be adapted. The picture is one I found while I was considering a project. The stern oars are driven by a belt from the motor and each subsequent pair of oars is driven by a belt from the one before. You could simplify this by using a gear wheel rather than a pulley and use a lay shaft with worm gears on it.
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Lots of fun but this one seems to show the strain on the rowers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8J1w4fcowA
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Here is another one from YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtjN2ImTFY
The ultimate, I would have thought. ok2
ken
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I know that you are a speed builder Ken,
but that is incredible %%
Ned
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Thank you for the vote of confidence but this is not mine. It's something to aim for though. {-)
The more one thinks about it, the harder it becomes to design. I'm having an 'Oars day' today. The mock up started with swizzle sticks but they are not sturdy enough. I am settling on the design and will go into mass production mode soon.
ken
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Reminds me of a cartoon I once saw showing an ancient galley dead in the water, broken oars sticking out in all directions and bashed up half conscious crew members draped over the sides.
On the aft platform was a guy going nuts on a modern full drum kit....
Colin
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We have a local that has a couple of viking ships.
The most impressive ones have come out of Europe.
Bireme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMaIE3YNefg
This modeler did ALL the oarsmen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMaIE3YNefg
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Love it. Thanks Umi.
We can but dream I'll do my best. I haven't got an exact idea of the design of the craft yet, but the main theme seems to be to rowing action. This is the priority at the moment with designs coming out of my ears. %)
ken
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I have fashioned the oars, which I carved from real timber. Although time consuming, I thought it better to make them out of one piece of wood, rather than join the paddle ends separately.
Here is a mock up to show what they would look like on the ships side. I am going for 22 oars at the moment but might increase the number if the hull comes out larger.
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WOW!
...most impressive oars Ken O0
Regards,
Ray.
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Thank you Captain Ray.
I've got into the whittling habit and mass production techniques since I ran out of money. {-)
ken
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Ken
Can the title not be changed to the correct spelling of bireme? It slaps me about every time I open the forum!! O0
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:embarrassed: Thank you for pointing this out Footski. You could say you were putting your OAR in but that would be tacky. I appreciate your correction and have altered the spelling. I never noticed it as Greek was never my strongest subject.
Cheers mate
ken
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:embarrassed: Thank you for pointing this out Footski. You could say you were putting your OAR in but that would be tacky. I appreciate your correction and have altered the spelling. I never noticed it as Greek was never my strongest subject.
Cheers mate
ken
Cheers Ken,
Nice not to keep getting slapped! {:-{
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I'm having a Greek weekend. :-)
I have come up with some drawings and made some sketches to enable me to construct the hull. They are not detailed, but I have enough info to go on.
Here is a lash up to get the general ideas and layout. As you can see, it's a trifle small at 2 foot long. What the scale might be is anybody's guess, but it must be large enough to accommodate the internal drive motors and mechanisms.
I have modified the oars by thinning the blades to make them more in proportion.
Today I am going for an increase in size as I have plenty of timber.
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I would certainly have honoured the ancient warship by putting it in with its descendants in the warships section. Even if the idea of explosive weapons rather than rams or personal weapons might strike fear into your crew!
This model will defiitly not be an 'Any other build' :-))
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Don't forget 'Greek Fire' would be classed as a weapon of mass destruction!
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Key Ken,
All those oars, which look pretty good I might say ..... how did you prevent yourself going mad?!?!
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=58442.0;attach=175107;image)
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Hi Ken this may be of some help to you
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Boats-Magazine-May-2008-Vol-58-Issue-690/232386291633?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
john
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I would certainly have honoured the ancient warship by putting it in with its descendants in the warships section. Even if the idea of explosive weapons rather than rams or personal weapons might strike fear into your crew!
This model will defiitly not be an 'Any other build' :-))
Thanks for thought Ian.
I will get it moved over to the new section.
ken
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Don't forget 'Greek Fire' would be classed as a weapon of mass destruction!
Good point Tony.
These 'ships' were certainly playing rough. :-))
ken
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Thanks for 'heads up' on the article in Model Boats mag, John. I shall get this immediately, unless Colin can come up with a cheaper version. :} :} (soon)
ken
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Martin, I enjoyed the Oars production and have gone back to them to finish them off. I found the blades were tooo wide, so set up the band saw to trim them off a bit and feather the edges.
The second boat is now framed up to 'one and a half times' as large and seems to be about the right size to encompass all the motors and gadgets that will be needed to drive her along.
I can't stay here too long as I've got things to do. {-)
ken
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Hi Ken have a look at this
http://www.modelshipbuilder.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?7494
john
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Morning John,
My secret is out . %) I have followed this guy with his Bireme build and it is what has stirred me into action. I was inspired by his carpentry and skills and will not to copy his work in detail, but use the information learnt to assist me in my build with my own designs.
Cheers
ken
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I have just bought the magazine John. Thank you again for pointing it out.
More 'secrets' to learn. ;) You can never get enough information when surveying a subject.
cheers
ken
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You're probably aware of the Hellenic navy's Olympias - a trireme built initially as an experiment and documented by the BBC in the film Trireme Quest. Useful detail in the movement oof the oars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGl8LB9Zxo
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Thank you for that Steve. I had not seen it before and found myself drifting off through the Triremes section.
Real ships rowed by real people. It looks very hard work being below decks. :-))
Today I glued in the 11 ribs and larger shape is appearing. Pictures to follow.
ken
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Crikey, at this rate Ken. you will have a fleet to rival that of Ancient Greece! I forgot Greek fire, so you will have to clad your stem in thin plates of brass shim as fire prevention.
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As far as I remember, one of the reasons that the Beeb made the programme was the many weeks of correspondence in the Times regarding the speed of the average bireme. I think someone compiled the lot into a book but I'm not sure.
:-))
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As I recall one of the main points of the experiment was the 'under-pinnings'. This was a cable connecting both the stem and the stern, designed to keep them from 'dropping', keeping the line of the keel level.
In the Olympias, they used a steel rod, instead.
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I have been doing a bit of 'Underpinning' myself. It's a very 'long verses thin' type of frame, so I've added extra packing of plywood to the structure.
The frames were 'widened' for better attachments of the planking and the bow shape has been stiffened up ready for carving later.
I have now constructed the extra oars to match the bigger ship, taking the total up to 30 now. I have made a temporary set of bars to hold them in place and also to 'wiggle' them about in a rowing motion just to give me ideas on the mechanical controls that will be needed. Up-down-left-right, sort of movement.
Now to cut some planking with my dangerous table saw, which sliced my thumb last time, so I'm a little wary.
Here's where we're at.
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Looks like deforming will not be an issue - good deep keel, unlike the trireme which was more like a racing shell.
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She seems sturdier now. I have been working on making the oars fit over two decks so have to make a different holding strip to keep them spaced apart and at different heights. It now looks like I have make 30 more Oars for the other side. ok2
The first planking strip has been secured, starting with the top of the hull rather than the usual keel start. It's all square and true, so it gives me a line to work from. Luckily the planking strips came out well as I did them on the band saw and NOT that circular bench saw this time. %)
Scheesh, the weather was warm today. The aliphatic resin glue was dry in under 30 mins.
John, the magazine arrived from Ebay today, so read it out in the sunshine. No useful tips, I'm afraid, but the bloke building his version was very secretive.
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Bloody hell!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o There is going to be some head-scratching in the Tug-Kenny household over the coming weeks here!!!!!!
Two decks of working oars???? And I thought you were brave trying to make one deck's worth work.
I really admire your tenacity here Ken - I am watching this with awe!!!
Carl - who cant quite believe what he is seeing here!!! %% %%
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Thanks Carl. Funny how things 'run away with you'. I'm off to the wood yard for more 'oar wood'. If you've got 10, you might as well fit 60. %) %) At least it won't sink---------- ever.
cheers
ken
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My Bandsaw has exploded it's blade. <:(
I was busy sawing away on 3mm timber and a clicking noise followed by a large CRACK and wheels spinning furiously as bits' of blade reeled out of the machine.
I jumped back furiously in shock and watched it all come to rest. The blade had snapped suddenly giving me the fright of my life. Thank goodness it was well protected with guards.
The rest of the day was spent travelling to Axminster tools for a new blade where enquiries were made as to the cause, because the blade was only 6 months old and still had teeth sharp enough to do damage.
They could offer no explanation as to the reason and sold me another one. I didn't get a refund or reason for it's demise.
Any tips from you folks please, before I fit it today.
ken
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They sometimes just go. I've worked with band saws for 30 odd years and you can never predict when they'll let go. Except, that it usually happens as you start it or stop it. Tiny flaws in the welded or brazed joint or simple fatigue. Try and replace the blade with as good a quality replacement as you can. I like Starett blade but can't always use it.
Check your tracking carefully and the position of the top and bottom guides. Having the blade rubbing on the guides and produce unwanted heat which fatigues the blade. Keep the guides adjusted correctly as a lot of exposed blade will flex unduly and again cause fatigue. You do need to remember sometimes they just get tired of being band saw blades and break. If there's plenty of life in the busted blade you can always use the old blade to make yourself a little bow saw.
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Thank you the information. I have it now running and cut a further 30 paddles alright.
The bloke in the shop mentioned all the stuff you say above so I was very studious in putting it back together. We figured it might have been because the 'saw belt' was already too tight and along came the hot weather and expanded things. The welded joint was still there and the break was away from the join. ( I thought the old one was still sharp but the new one took a nick out of my forefinger to prove it was there. (It's sharp to even look at) {-)
On with the build. Here are the 60 oars waiting outside the hull.
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There's a tendency for people putting blades on to overdo the tensioning. You have to understand your not tuning a guitar ( so don't do it up so tight it twangs) there should be a gauge somewhere on the saw to indicate the correct tension or the instructions should tell you how much side deflection is right for a correctly tensioned blade.
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I went by feel and blade movement like you say. It does move sideways a little without undue force and it runs smooth at the moment.
Cheers
ken
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Sounds about right then.
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Had I known Ken, you may have passed near my way. I would have seen you right for a toilet break and a cup of tea to set you up for the next leg of your journey.
Did you travel via Honiton and the M5?
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I went to the Store at Cardiff, Ian. It's just down the road from Newport, but I would have loved a cup of tea. Thank you for thinking of me. :-))
The motorway traffic has now reached suicidal proportions so I only drive when I have to. It must have been the hottest day of the year as it was 37 degrees when I started the engine. %%
ken
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Do you mean Cardiff in Australia Ken ?? :} I did not know there was a branch in Cardiff though I have visited their branch in Kent, so it is logical for them to have other branches.
I did wonder when you said you drove to the shop, as that would be an epic drive especially if you want to avoid the bridge tolls.
I was thinking how you were avoiding your table saw and then the bandsaw tries to eat you. Your tools are alive, ALIVE I TELL EE!!!!! %%
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This popped up in my Facebook feed this morning, thought I'd mention it
https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/the-trireme-olympias-to-sail-once-again.html#lKFvViVVkZ5wa86s.97
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Goodness me :} have I started a craze.
I've been quietly planking away a bit at a time. I thought I would try clamping each piece of timber to prevent any holes in the planks. It seems to work as there is not a lot of tension in the straight runs.
When sanded, it should look quite smooth. I am undecided as to how the final finish will be. I didn't really want to paint it, so stain and polish might be the answer.
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Perhaps a little painted pattern on a white stripe along the gunwales and stern with the rest in a stained or varnished finish. Less is more as they say.
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I think there is a strong possibility that the hull might well have been black from pitch used to waterproof it. This could have been embellished with coloured decoration. It's an interesting topic.
Colin
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That's good news that it might be covered as I had to resort to a few pins in the most awkward sections. (with subsequent holes on removal). These are going to require filling and sanding and will now require covering.
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Once the glue's dry, try a little water (on a q-tip) on the holes. You might find that that's enough to re-swell the crushed fibres where the pin holes are.
Andy
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What a great idea Andy. :-)) That's what this forum is all about. Thank you very much, it might work as it's in the awkward areas anyway. I was thinking of a 'darkish' wood stain to make it look natural and then some waterproofing.
ken
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Hot water is better O0 O0 O0
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Thanks guys. :-))
Here's what I've got to work with. A bit lumpy but nothing a little sanding won't help.
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The sanding might also help remove some of the pin holes along with the water idea.
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It's all sanded nice and smooth and various spots filled with the 'ol' P38 filler.
Now that the wood surface is blotchy we have to go the paint route. I have started with the red oxide but the tin ran out. I then mixed up some epoxy and ran it around the total inside area and it's come out nice and clear. At least I know it will be waterproof.
I shall probably be going the Black colour for the outside surface to make it look like Tar.
Here's where we're at. ( No, that's not the mast ok2 )
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I should think the pitched wood would be dark brown such as this: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-hull-boarding-of-an-old-wooden-steam-ship-boards-treated-with-tar-37685646.html
This is basically Burnt umber and can be bought in Aerosols from Halfords type places and Plastikote in jars. I painted a Fibreglass Cricket bat using both for a sign in my old village: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=The+slindon+cricket+sign&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=n_FR8mdbE0G7GM%253A%253BRxsqbO7C6PZqQM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSlindon_Cricket_Club&source=iu&pf=m&fir=n_FR8mdbE0G7GM%253A%252CRxsqbO7C6PZqQM%252C_&usg=__oq9fP1nDjfbkQGAhTNKgDBzrriE%3D&biw=1440&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwj47bqkj4fVAhWKK8AKHYX9CXwQyjcITQ&ei=8dpnWbixG4rXgAaF-6fgBw#imgdii=j7ifRvKL-TkaTM:&imgrc=n_FR8mdbE0G7GM:
And it took oil paint on top as well as mixed in.
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Thanks Ian, I'll look into the brown shades. It looks like darker brown is the way to go.
ken
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It gives you more wriggle room for weathering and painting over if you go down the white stripe route.
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I hadn't realised Ken, but this could be a very first well documented usage of the Ram, or Armoured Ram Bow?.....
Will you be using a brass foiled or brass metal painted Ram Bow?....
Derek
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I used a lot of brass in remodelling the ram bow on my HMS Polyphemus, which means if I hit another boat with this 9kg model I would probably sink it. Always a worry sailing this on crowded lakes as it's turning circle and stopping distance are too close to "sale" for comfort.
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Yes, you are correct Derek. It will have a cap fitted, but not sure of it's construction yet. The structure is very sturdy so bashing into dock wall will be no bother. %)
ken
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Today I have fitted extra strengthening plates to allow for the pivoting tensions on the oars. These will be drilled out to accept the oars, which have been stained a dark wood colour.
The top deck has been cut to size but not secured yet.
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The holes have been drilled for the oars
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There is a Vacancy for 60 oarsmen. :} :}
On with the build and I've made the top floor to go around the top edge. The thought did occur to me that 'should the oars be removable for transport' as it's rather a Wide model. %)
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"Should the oars be removeable for transport?"
The cautious side of me suggests yes, perhaps with a push fit into a silicon tube or something like that. It would make replacment easier if one got broke in general use.
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Going to be a hassle if you have to refit all the oars every time you launch the model and there is a good chance that some might fall off when the model in working unless you have some form of locking mechanism for each one. Plus the oars must be a tight enough fit not to rotate in their sockets.
Maybe this is not going to be a very practical model..... A lot of rowlocks.....?
Colin
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dreams never come true, unless you work on them, and have positive thoughts.
Jim.
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The thought did occur to me that 'should the oars be removable for transport' as it's rather a Wide model. %)
just make a wide carrying box Ken.
Jim.
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A square peg in a round hole. They are already turning around by themselves.
It does look like the way forward is to secure them in position. Thanks for the observations fellas. :-))
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Put a thread on each end and a threaded collar onto the ends of the mechanism and screw them in. You could do it with an electric screw driver so you don't get RSI from twisiting your wrist a multiple of 60 times.
Just out of interest, how wide if your Bireme with the oars?
Whatever happens, she looks great, and as per usual you have rocketted along with her :-))
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No problem Ian, as they will be fixed in. The total width is measured at 21 inches so it's not too bad.
Today I re-sanded the hull again and added some extra filler, as I could see blemishes, so it had to be re-sprayed again in more red oxide. (Told you I loved the stuff ok2).
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There's nowt wrong with a dab of red oxide:O)
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Soon Kenny, soon! - https://youtu.be/lzveezi5vVs
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Just like in the movies O0 O0
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It reminds me of the old Dave Allen joke, about the galley slave owner who likes to go water skiing on Sundays.
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Film of the actual event! %)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I_b97C3VcM
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Thanks guys. Well immersed into the subject now. %)
I am at present designing the 'rowing mechanism'. I have all sorts of systems on file and plan to make it as realistic as possible. Several versions have been tried and rejected as there's more to this than meets the eye.
It has to be a parallelogram action with rounded corners and slightly slopping sides, with enough force to shift 60 wooden blades in the desired way, forward and backward. When that's done, we have to make two sets (one for each side) which can be run independently or together as the need arises. I'm certainly getting through the Whisky bottle. {-)
Cheers
ken
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Don't you wish that the ancient Greeks had invented the paddle steamer Ken - soooo much easier.
Colin
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Didn't they have giant wheels that people walked uphill inside of . :}
ken
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Thanks guys. Well immersed into the subject now. %)
I am at present designing the 'rowing mechanism'. I have all sorts of systems on file and plan to make it as realistic as possible. Several versions have been tried and rejected as there's more to this than meets the eye.
It has to be a parallelogram action with rounded corners and slightly slopping sides, with enough force to shift 60 wooden blades in the desired way, forward and backward. When that's done, we have to make two sets (one for each side) which can be run independently or together as the need arises. I'm certainly getting through the Whisky bottle. {-)
Cheers
ken
Hi Ken, you may have already considered this.
Beyond the basics but this may make life easier.
If you can find someone who can program an Arduino for you, and you use stepper motors.
For each row/side of oars.
Position 1: Oars out of the water top of stroke. For coasting (turning if opposite side in)
Position 2: Oars in the water bottom of stroke. Braking (handbrake turns if opposite side out)
Position 3: Row forward, normal speed
Position 4: Row forward, slow
Position 5: Row backward, slow. (playing with 4 and 5 allows turning the boat in its own length)
Position 6: Sync port and starboard in position 1. Start position and fail-safe.
Just thinking out of the box. But having some way to put the oars back into some 'start position' would be useful I think.
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I am looking into this idea but first fancied all the mechanical ways of achieving the same result.
I can see why technology has taken over. %)
ken
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The mechanicals will still be the same, just controlling the motor will be programmable instead of micro switches. :-)
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I am now deep into work on the rowing system.
Enquiries have been made on the 'Radio Equipment section' about servos to control the up and down movement of the oars. At the moment I am going with mechanical means of control but hope to graduate to Arduino computer control at a later stage ( another bigger model ?)
The OARS will be connected to push rods that are connected at their base to a horizontal strip which controls their action. At the beginning of each stroke the servos will push the whole strip up whilst the oars travel horizontally and then down for the return movement.
Here are some pictures of the build so far. This represents 2 days work so far and it shows the oblong ends for insertion of Oars which have been fitted to the pusher rods. The Oar count has been reduced by one on each side as it looked odd when all the oars were fitted into the boat. The front oar was a long one and the rear oar was a short one. It looked so out of place ?? The bottoms of the pushers will be cut off flush, now we know their heights. ok2
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Huston...... we have a problem. %)
After making all the oar mechanisms and dry fitting them, I found I couldn't rotate them in the required fashion.
That is to say, they have to move along the horizontal plane a distance and then drop down a distance, and move back along another horizontal plane and then move up towards the start position.
The reason for the failure was that the Oar holders were square and NOT elongated. Please see pictures. Now we don't have enough material to complete this re-design.
This now means that I have to make a modified set with a vertical section to allow the oars to pivot up and down. I also have to make a better bearing system which allows them to turn with minimal resistance whilst keep the blades in a vertical position in the new vertical slots.
Please don't complicate things further by mentioning 'Feathering the blades' {-) as I'm sure they ancient mariners weren't aware of these things.
Onwards.
ken
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If the oar holders could swivel in the wooden beam then that would cure one of the issues you are having especially if you can reuse the existing ones.
I would solder a small washer onto the holders just above where they exit the beam, and have a small pin below to keep them in place, perhaps with another loose washer, or solder the washer in place once the holder has been poked through. Making the loops bigger and then putting a pin through the outer most end of the oar stock would then allow them to swivel in the vertical as well How wide are the oar stocks?
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Hello Ken,
It would be easier to make an Oar setup using just ONE Oar.
Get it to work OK, then make all of the others the same way.
Would be a lot quicker and easier than getting things wrong on dozens of them.
The Engineer in me is coming out !!!.
Very impressed with what you are doing.
John. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Thanks guys.
Ian has the right idea. I used solder as a quick way but washers would seem smoother. I shall discontinue the wood beam as it might swell during use, so aluminium is the way to go.
Yes it was silly to proceed with them all, but hey, that's the fun of it all and I do like my mass production.
We haven't come to holding the oars in position yet, so we have think of a way of stopping them sliding out. Maybe the pins as sugested.
Cheers
ken
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Ken,
Looks like this type of servo movement/control might help?
A very quickly cobbled together experiment - in this example only one servo is moving at any one time - one waits until the other has reached it's destination - clearly in real life the oars ( hence servos) would for some part of the travel be moving in both planes at the same time - this is possible just needs to be translated from the real world into code :)
I am using the Arduino Uno as it was readily available - this could equally be the smaller Arduino Nano - approx cost £4 delivered
Youtube video link - https://youtu.be/Fe8goLPlOjE
(http://www.rchub.co.uk/images/Arduinoservocontrol.jpg)
The program code that is making the servo's move is below:
#include <VarSpeedServo.h>
VarSpeedServo myservo_1;
VarSpeedServo myservo_2;
void setup()
{
myservo_1.attach(3);
myservo_2.attach(4);
}
void loop() {
myservo_1.write(1000, 50, 1);
myservo_2.write(1000, 75, 1);
myservo_1.write(1700, 50, 1);
myservo_2.write(1700, 75, 1);
}
Regards
C-3PO
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Fascinating. I've bookmarked your film for future reference. The plan is to use a servo at each end of the pusher bar to drop the bar a certain distance and then restore the bar back to the top whilst a geared motor is pushing and pulling the bar a certain distance fore and aft via a linked rod. I'll show details as I progress.
Today was spent working on a 2 new bars and swivel systems for each oar.
Cheers
ken
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Now that Arduino functionality by C-3PO sure looks like the heart of the 2 x dual system movement for you Ken
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Yes, it does look smooth Derek.
C-3PO, does it speed up in sync with the speed control ?
ken
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Ken,
If you want the Arduino to read your RX throttle channel and react to the throttle change to speed up the servo's that is easily achieved. You would not need a traditional ESC as we are only controlling the servos.
The sweep motions can be as simple or as complicated as you want. EG. you may say you want the total travel of servo one to be 90 degrees - you may want the first and last 10 degrees to be at a slower speed to the main travel. You can specify a completely different movement for the other servo. You may want a pause once the oars have entered the water before the stroke starts....so in theory you can animate this as per your imagination.
Indeed you may need 4 servos- 2 each side - you could even include reading the RX "rudder" function to make one side stroke go faster than the other, or maybe just one side moving ....
So I think you can see that this can be as simple or as complex as you want :)
PS If you want to add some whistles and bells you could even synch a sound(s) with the stroke rate - did the Greeks chant/drum beat as they rowed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXh1tW16V-8
C-3PO
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I just choked on my corn flakes.................
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To continue... I have run out of 2mm brass tubes so went shopping yesterday.. None left I stock. Now I'm stuck in limbo until I come up with an answer.
ken
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Sorry to be at a standstill. %)
I have sourced some more brass tubes and have to get the car out as they are now ordered and ready for collection some many miles away.
I am seriously thinking of going the Arduino route now and have been looking into it. I need recommendations of suppliers and the kit required please (help required C-3PO,) as I've looked on 'the Bay' and don't want to overspend on rubbish.
My last computer course was studying 'Basic' and 'C plus' many years ago, but I did take to it and understand and enjoy the technology. :-))
Much excitement and entertainment to follow.
cheers
ken
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Ken,
I'll send you a shopping/supplier list later - won't be much
Arduino code is very simple - there aren't that many commands! - https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage
Don't under estimate the power of the little beast - even the £4 cloned board can still process 16million instructions per second
If you understand some of the basic programming generic logic building blocks like "if - then - else" it won't take you long to get up to speed - and if you get stuck many forums to get help...
Apart from some cable, solder , battery connector , battery total spend it likely to be max £10
There won't be much if anything you want to do with an Arduino that someone hasn't already done....
If you want to start preparation you can download and install the free Arduino IDE (Integrated Development Environment) - it's just a posh text editor at heart with some additional functionality from this link https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software
You will then be able to get familiar with the editor - you can type a program and compile it in the IDE - the final bit - you just need an Arduino attached to your PC via a USB cable to send the program from the IDE to the Arduino board - and that's it!!!
C-3PO
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Thank you very much. I'm following the route and will get it all loaded.
My email addy is under my Icon.
Cheers
ken
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Running at full speed now the materials have arrived. %)
Using a taller gap to allow for the oar movement, we have made another set of Rollocks and placed them in the new pusher frames. These will be secured in at the bottom allowing for a pivoting movement. The rods are 2mm hollow brass tubes and take some hammering and bending without snapping, so it came out as desired.
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It is starting to look like a victorian mechanism from a Loom Ken. You may need small children to lubricate them!
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To us others it all looks Greek. O0 O0
Somebody had to say it %) %)
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The project mechanism is finished. Wouldn't the Greeks be surprised. %)
The rotating lift mechanism is secured with tiny 2mm washers, soldered in and smoothed down. I expect there's a bit more to do to get them moving.
ken
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An distraction for you Kenny!
Ancient Floating Death Stars | Chinese Super Ships Documentary - https://youtu.be/KX1OZKKfHGg
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Something to pass an evening. There might be some ideas there. :}
Further work has been done on the oar mechanism. I am fitting the oar pushers into place. This set-up will provide the side to side movement of the oars. The system is designed to slide sideways back and forth a certain distance.
Slots have been made to allow the for up/down movement which is the next big project. We are hoping for a computer controlled system and this is being thought about at the moment. What have I let myself in for, when 60 slaves can do the job better. %)
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It would be far harder to geneticaly modify DNA to form minute hoomans to row your ship than work up an Arduino system Ken.
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Yes, we are considering the Arduino route.
Presently gathering the relevant info. :}
ken
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Now we are fitting the rowing mechanism and it was decided to build a test bench so that adjustments and mods could be applied.
I have made a base onto which is fitted the vertical supports. A false ship side wall was made with portholes and the newly made Pushers have been aligned.
The drive mechanism to move the oars left and right has been experimented with and, believe me when I say, it is proving to be quite difficult. The motor has to have an arm with one end slotted to pause the pusher during rotation to allow the whole assemble to move sharply up and down at the end of it's traversing. It is driven via my bench voltage adjuster so that I can run it any speed.
The computer has arrived to be able to program the up and down movement of the pusher, but that will be another story. %)
Here's the latest views with the oars left and right.
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God you've got some patience Ken, I've seen this done with two oars in a row boat but sixty WOW, hope all goes to plan, good going so far. :-))
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Thanks Joe. There's certainly more to this than I first thought.
ken
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This is a totally fascinating thread Kenny. I am enjoying every step on your development path.
A huge amount going on in such a limited space. I know "rowing" is a technical art, a colleague at our club has a lovely working row boat, but only two oars. Love the challenge you are taking on :-))
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It was indeed fascinating watching them all move in Sync.
They are running on my bench power supply at the moment and I could speed them up or slow them down. The whole thing looks a 'wobbly mess' at the moment and will need a bit more precision when it comes to fitting them in the boat.
Already I'm noticing errors in design and things that 'don't look right', so much so, that I'm thinking of making another boat. Next time, a bigger one maybe. %%
ken
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You will soon have a fleet in forced perspective ken!
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Might have already been stated/sorted, Using the KISS principle would it not be a row boat repeated/reproduced thirty or whatever times in length.
Also on the real thing was there a 'slot' for the oars as opposed to a round 'hole" ??
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Ah !! yes the holes. %)
Thereby lies a design problem. The oar has to move in a radius motion. The round holes have to allow for provision of the oar moving sideways and up and down.
Therefore to maintain a non clunking and jamming of the oar when moved sideways, the centre has to be maintained whilst the outer edges of the hole have to be an angle like a cone. The oar has to be oblong shape to maintain it's vertical position therefore this oblong is presented to the hole and has to move in a rotary movement.
Mechanically, it is actually a bad design, as during it's lifetime, it will wear away the section it rubs. This also creates friction and drag and 30 of them are causing a load on the motor.
Whilst watching them 'do their thing' and drinking loads of coffee, it became more apparent there is more to this than meets they eye. It is also amusing to watch the oars 'drop out' from the side of the craft whilst in motion as there is no form of 'stopper' at the moment.
When there is, then this point will become the rotational pivot point as well, causing extra problems and loading. Hopefully this has been solved with the rotational clamp slotted fixture to allow for the oarsmen to pivot the oar. I just need 60 pins to stop them sliding out.
It all feels as if I'm doing a 'Doctorate' at the university as computers have been ordered to control this system, and we haven't got around to making them go up and down, let alone pausing at each end of the stroke to raise and lower them.
No wonder the slaves were beaten with sticks to keep them rowing. :} :}
more later
ken
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If it is a Greek Bireme Ken, then the rowers are likely to have all been volunteer upstanding citizens not slaves. (depending to some extent on the period of course!)
Colin
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This will save me animating another character.
{-)
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Ooh Ken, you are oarful! %)
Colin
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Great grief and consternation.
I am at the point of critical analysis where there are just too many problems for the set up that I have. I am beginning to see that certain things could be made differently so am considering re-doing most of it again.
1. The oars are spaced wrong
2. The height from the water level is wrong.
3. The Length of stroke is wrong.
4. The hull is too small.
All of this would mean the holes in the hull would need repositioning and that would require a new side to the ship. ARGH .............................
Any comments guys.
ken
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Well, it CAN be done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzveezi5vVs
and
http://www.modelshipbuilder.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?11357.0
Colin
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Hi Colin. Thanks for the 'heads up' movie picture.
It does indeed show the problems with oarsmen that I am trying to eliminate.
Speed of oars
Stroke distance of oars
Depth of oars
Circular rotation of oars
Thrust of oars
A very interesting project indeed. I shall continue until I get it right.
cheers
ken
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Ken,
The second link seems to have quite a bit of info about the mechanism buried in it from a quick look.
Colin
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Thanks again Colin. You are very supportive.
I shall be back on the workshop soon with fresh vigour and enthusiasm now.
Cheers
ken
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This one whilst a bit long, was built and shows the oars and has some sketches which may assist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e1cmprH6BY
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Thank you for your input RAAArtyGunner. :-))
All clues are welcomed as there's more to this than imagined.
If you don't like horrible sights then please skip over this next section. :} :}
Yesterday was decision day and it was 'out with the axe' . I have cut out the offending sections with the miss-placed holes and started a new section with better spaced holes for the Oars. The holes are slightly under-sized at the moment whilst we decide on their shape and size.
New sections have been cut and placed in position.
-
The next job was to make a precision master jig for the oar holes and the matching oar movement frame.
-
The new sides were then drilled out and offered up to the hull.
-
You will notice that the holes are 2mm closer than before. This is because we need to shorten the length of the pusher arm so that it does not interfere with the curvature of the hull at each end. (another error unspoken of !!)
The new pusher arms have been cut ready and pre-drilled. Today we hope to fix the 60 oar pushers into place.
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I salute your efforts Ken.
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Thanks Ian,
Day off today. I'm running out of breath lately, Not from working fast but climbing stairs after smoking for 60 years. I'm arranging a visit to the surgery to check it out.
Cheers
ken
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That sounds like COPD, so quitting now and getting the Docs to check you over will be a boon to your Boat building career! My Aunt has COPD and my Uncle has the beginnings of Emphesema, so they're a right pair Love 'em %)
Go careful matey ok2
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Thanks Ian. The next available appointment is 16 days time ??????
Might go down before they open in the morning and join the queue for an instant decision type of visit. No work done today, just watched TV for 6 hours. %)
ken
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Our surgery is like that too. I think they work on the principle that either the problem will go away in the meantime so they won't need to treat you or that you will drop dead so they won't need to treat you either.....
Good idea to force the issue and present yourself. Our surgery has a resident paramedic who can give you an assessment and refer you to doctor if they feel it necessary. They don't advertise the service of course.
Colin
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No Ken today? Hope visit to Doc went OK.
Colin
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Here I am. :} had a quiet day. Couldn't get down there so will phone tomorrow and make appointment. Mind you, when they hear me coughing they might 'jiffy up a bit'.
I'm trying to give up the dreaded weed but I keep failing. {:-{
Catch you later
ken
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Hi there Ken
I can put a picture on that may help you pack in smoking - I smoked for 40 odd year and 3 years to this month - on the 14th to be exact was the last time I had a cigarette. I used to enjoy a tab. Now I have a small plastic bottle reminding me - it has tubes in it - they were inserted into my right lung - and the sheer pain of it all when they inserted the tube without any anaesthetic - they used something like a welding rod and pushed it straight through - all I remember apart from being bruised from me armpit to the thigh - I felt like I had been belted with a baseball bat.
In all honesty do I miss smoking - yes I do occasionally - but once you get over the first few days - hey presto!!!
I had patches and everything you can think of to stop - to be honest with you - the best thing I had was similar to a cigar holder to chew on :-)
when they removed the pipes I asked if he would give me the bottle with the pipe in so everytime I fancied a tab I would look at the bottle - do you want to see the bottle? Cos I still have it here. Ken, I do suffer from severe COPD and the worst thing ever is sometimes I have to use me wheelchair, I cant walk very far and that gets me down. Its a killer when you go to the lake as you need people to help ya.
By the build is looking good - I am still watching. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK KEN - AND PACK IN THAT SMOKING :-)
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Hiya John.
Nice to hear from you. So sorry about your story. It does make you think.
Yesterday I tried to stop and failed later in the day. Same again today but have reduced from 20 down to 5. I really would like to stop and will persevere.
No more suggestions please.
Onwards with the boat. I am not pleased with it now the cut out section is re-fitted. It's all wobbly under pressure so I'm afraid I shall have to give it up.
I have been out to get new timber and will completely make another hull. I shall keep the oars and mechanisms for the next model.
:o
cheers for now
ken
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Will you continue on this thread Ken ...or will you be starting up a fresh one ?
Regards,
Ray.
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You'll get there Ken. Dropping seventyfive percent in two days is an amazing achivement :-)) :-)) I think it is breaking the habitual moments that will be the turning point. My sister recently gave up and she said, its those coffee and getting ready to set off on a drive moments that are sticking points.
I look forward to seeing your next stage in project Bireme, you must be learning loads and no one drowned :-))
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Worry not. I am staying with the thread as I have a large investment in it now. The oars and runners are done and the electronics are on paper plans. We are going the Arduino route, so that should be fun. :}
Today we acquired some new timber (they love me down the shop) all ready to make new planking for the new hull. Shouldn't take me long once I get going. The model will be 6 inches longer to allow for a better line up of the 60 oars.
7 ciggies today Ian, but we are trying and times are tense. %) Went down the Doctors today and they were fully booked for 3 weeks. They suggested I get in the telephone queue every morning until I got through to claim an emergency appointment. They've stopped the crowds appearing at their door on opening times. Seems a good job to be in eh !!
ken
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Well, if you only increased by two on a stressful day then I continue saluting you Ken. That drop by seventy two% to seventy five% each day really will help and help soon :D :D :-))
I can't comment on the Health service without getting very soap boxish, so keep up the good work on both counts, the Hobnobs are poised :}
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New Ploy today. Started working in shed straight after breakfast. (can't smoke when bustling around.)
Well, as mentioned the new version is on the blocks. We are using 9mm plywood for extra strength to cover the torque of all the moving oars.
Last night we enlarged the plans to make her 6 inches longer with the matching width being automatic from this, without the need for more calculating.
'By Cracky', she's suddenly more sturdy and weighty now. Here are some pictures of the plywood with the 'fret sawed out Keel' to give you an idea of the size. The frames have been cut out with slots to match the slots in the keel and it all dry fits together quite nicely, These will be shaped for the curvature of the hull and glued together as a solid fixture.
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The new timber is awaiting cutting to make the planking strips. Last time I did this I forgot I had 5 fingers on my hand and had a slight mishap. :((
Hopefully with my new blade guards in place, it will make the job safer.
Cheers
ken
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That's a super start Ken.
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The frames were then hollowed out and glued into place. It's now so solid that I can stand on it. %%.
As I usually have trouble attaching the planking to the bow, I am trying a new idea of fitting blocks to the stem post and will be chamfering it to match the curve. The stern is yet to be done.
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A quiet, nervous day was spent cutting the planking. %)
We have started by laying from the top and will work downwards. The strip was laid dead square and horizontal, as all the others will follow it.
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I like your idea of clamping the planks together their ends to keep them level.
She's looking good Ken :-))
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Thanks Ian, it will help to keep things square.
No-one has commented on the reversal of the frame and keel fitting slots. The keel is cut from the bottom upwards, half way, and the frames are cut from their centres downwards.
Because the slots are lengthy, I cannot reduce the inner heights of the frames because I'll run out of timber in the joint. Hence I have more height than I would have liked, giving a 'centre board effect' . You can see the partial loss of timber close to the red clamp in the last picture.
It looks like a ridge to separate the rowers !! so maybe I'll get away with it :}
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Galleys had a 'corsia' or flying bridge that ran from quarter deck to bows, so that could sit on the 'centre board' hiding it. What scale is she now? You may well be able to get some Greek wargames figures to populate her. Let me know and I will research some ranges for you to look at.
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Regarding scale, I too pondered this.
We would need to know the actual length of the real ship which might prove difficult. I would, however like to estimate it might be between 1/40 and 1/60 as the little people might be around 25mm tall. Mind you, on reflection, them oars are pretty big. {-) {-)
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I am sure you must have seen this, but Greece built a replica Trireme, "Olympias" in 1987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGl8LB9Zxo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGl8LB9Zxo)
Another YouTube vid about them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e1cmprH6BY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e1cmprH6BY)
On Google, a typical Bireme was about 24 meters in length.
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Thanks Bob. :-))
I was checking YouTube when I got this message. There's certainly a lot on there.
Thanks for the size info. I shall measure mine tomorrow and go from there.
ken
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Biremes were generally smaller than triremes.
Colin
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This version is now bigger, maybe another row of oars. :}
ken
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Traditionally 25mm figures were 1:72nd scale. Then 25mm became 'Foot to eye' and then 28mm came along and anything goes!
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I will try and work out the size comparisons fellas.
We have started planking and it's beginning to come together with more of a 'boaty' look. I do enjoy this part as it's very satisfying watching the final shape appear.
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When considering the height of the crew, bare in mind, and you probably have already thought of it Ken, the average height of a man in those days was considerably shorter that today, even in Nelsons day if you were 5' 8" you would have been considered a tall man with Nelson himself being 5' 4". Just an observation Ken,, not wanting to teach granny to suck eggs, %% {-) Good progress on the new hull :-))
Joe.
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The problem with scaling figures and allowing for the lower average height is that the head size and the girth were as now or thereabouts.
Need leg reduction surgery?
Tony
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The oarsmen would have been the largest and strongest they could get.
They need to be sat down also.
Make the seats a bit lower and you'll be OK!
Ned
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Thanks for the replies gents. All interesting stuff.
To this end I have placed a soldier of modern extract with an oar on deck. {-) {-)
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mmmph !!! I think I'll have to think it out again.
Onwards with the planking marathon. Here is the latest stage. More to do yet and I'm feeling encouraged.
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The hull looks fab ken.
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It's quite smooth and laid carefully (this time %) ) Now looking forward to steaming the front (unglued as of yet) planks then curve them into place.
This is something I've never done before and will hope hot steamy air will soften them enough to do the job. This is why I have secured them mid riff, as it were, to hold them stable.
ps Did you notice the little man was not really to the correct scale. We'll get there eventually. ok2
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I was going to ask what make and scale he was, but decided to keep my mind on the planking :-)) He looks like a 1:56th scale Russian to me.
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And now the BAD news. She is tooooo wide. The ship is actually quite narrow in proportion to the length
It has been nagging me these last few days and was only confirmed when the planking went on. The hull is wider than the ships that I have seen on the Web.
Thanks to Bob K, I have been over to the Trireme site in America and studied their films from all angles. There is a cracking film of their Real ship being rowed along the Thames which finally convinced me of her size and proportions. I should even be able to get the size of the little people right.
Today I start work on a brand new Trireme. I will post pictures of the bireme as she is later when the tears have dried. %) :o :D
Cheers
ken
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So sorry too hear that Kenny. Note the Triremes were quite a bit wider from having an overhanging section for the upper rows of oars. There are probably plans available for the trireme Olympias as Greece built a full size one. Most impressive underway.
Some nice documentaries available on the Battle of Salamis when the Greek triremes routed a much larger fleet of Persian ships. Fascinating era.
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Nooooooo %% Could you not cut her in half and add an extra length of hull? The frames would be easy to make given them being identical, and you could gauge where to cut the hull by working out where the holes for the oars need to be.
I am worried that you have a Bireme OCD thing going on Ken, as you haven't stopped for weeks now perfecting your ancient warfleet.
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I've finally got the details I was after regarding measurements and have started on build number 3
Here's a group photo with the new design in the centre. There doesn't seem to be much difference in the picture but the new one in the centre is beginning to look the part. :}
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The main difference now is that the frames have been cut slimmer and tapered downwards which makes her look more in proportion.
There will an overhanging section on top for the upper rowers.
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I applaud your patience on this project Ken, I know it will pay dividends in the end and with your resolve I'm sure you will kick the weed soon if you haven't already, I gave it up 17 years ago so I know how hard it is but use that strong resolve of yours believe me it's worth it. :-))
Joe.
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Hi Joe. Thanks for your kind comments. I would say I'm down to 10 a day as long as I keep busy.
I had forgotten about the very first Bireme that I'd started and realised it was too small for the 'gubbins I had planed for it. So here's a picture of the No 1 with No 4.
Here are the latest views of the build. We have cut more planking ( a bit thicker this time to allow for sanding smooth) and have the frames all glued in ready, so have fitted the first row. You might notice the wooden blocks at each end that have been tapered. This will aid in the adhesion of the planks into a natural curve. I am also going for the 'No nails showing' effect and going for individual clamps.
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G/day Ken they say third time lucky or is it the fourth.
Graham
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We never end (when it comes to model boats).
It did surprise me that I forgotten I'd built that many. My life is a speedy blur these days.
A nice quiet day today planking away quietly with the radio on and numerous cups of tea being transported in now and again. It's like an old factory when everyone has gone home. Oooh the plans going though my head as I work away silently.
More later.
ken
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I have finally completed the planking in nice new 'thicker' wood. They are between 2 and 3mm thickness and lay nice and straight. The rough edges were sanded down nice to make a flat hull shape.
The small version has been put back in store. :}
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Say hello to the TRIREME
Yes, we are going ahead with the 'three layer of Oars' model. In for a penny, In for a pound, as they say.
The completed hull is now being built upwards with another side deck for a top row of Oarsmen. I need to make some more Oars as they now total 90.
Here is where we are at the moment. My regulars might note that the Rear curved end has been snapped orf at the giant feather. oooh er. but that's life in the modelling game mmmh!!
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I have added to extra 'top row' and secured it with round posts, which run down through to act as pivots for the oars.
-
The oars were then tried for size and lining up.
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So far so good.
We are now going for the Trireme so the extra row of oars was added. Now we need 30 more oars manufactured to keep up with production. :}
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Now that does look nice Ken :-)) Those galleries with the pilars is a nice touch.
With ninety oars to get set up, when you have mastered that you will probably be able to build anything.
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It sure is turning out to be a labour of love.
I really am enjoying this wood working lark. Every time I look at it I can see 'updates' needed. %)
I feel another day on Oar production coming up.
ken
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They are always a labour of love Ken, she is OAR inspiring %) %)
Joe
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Shock and Oar! {-) {-) {-) 
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{-) {-) {-) Those puns are OAR ful!!!
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Well the boat is full of oars . %% {-) {-) I'll get me coat. :D
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Oar inspiring? %)
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I have made another 30 oars. The ships full compliment is now 90 oars.
It does sound a bit OARful and hopefully not a problem when it comes to driving them.
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You will have noticed that the top deck for keeping the rain off of the rowers has been lined up. It's not secured yet because there is plenty of work below decks to be done.
I have also made the Bow deck but not secured as I want to drop some epoxy inside the hull. The same applies to the stern deck, which is in the process of being curved to shape.
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The hull is looking Awesome or even Oarsome Ken, :-))
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This is looking great. It will be quite the feat to link all those oars. I look forward to seeing your effort.
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Thank you for your kind comments, we are indeed deep into this now. :embarrassed: Plenty to do.
Cheers
ken
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The bow is very attractive Ken.
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It does seem to look the part now Ian.
Today I shall be playing with Plasticine. The plan is to make a model man which will fit the space, and hold the oar. By getting his body shape and arm length etc, to fit the available space I should be able to work out the scale of this model ??
You all have the day to place your bets and see who is closest. {-)
Cheers
ken
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Hm.
Version 3.0 was about 1:56th scale based on the figure posed aboard. Version 4.0 is larger but has more oars so it is still 1:56th or maybe around 1:48th scale.
The 'Make a job really challenging' part of my brain was thinking you could cast each rower's body in soft rubber with the working parts set into the mould beforehand but having articulated figures will be impressive enough to create. Having a drummer to beat time would be an impressive addition to the working crew :}
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You're not wrong about the problems. What a day I had ........ {-)
Here are some pictures of my attempts. (I am not very artistic in the human modelling dept) but you should get the 'gist' by the sizes shown.
First I made the man and was governed by the height allowed by the seat and roof measurements. He looks a bit chunky but it's the height and size we were after.
Several points jumped out at me, notably the size of the oar handle was a little large and the man was getting smaller as we progressed. we are going to need a pivoting waist and pivoting elbow joints. I don't think we need legs but I suppose it would look better with them.
I did find a smaller commercial 'soldier' which I re-shaped with the hot air gun, but his features turned out to look too small.
Here's some pictures. According to my calculations he would appear to 1/42 scale.
It will be 'mechanism time' soon so buckle up and start your engines (as they say) %)
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The real life oars were beasts so they fitted hand rails to them which were more ergonomic. This might help you anyway on providing a natural pivot point between 'Oarville' and his mate's hands and the oars.
Sorry, that last pun was a load of Rollocks %)
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A great reminder. Yes, there was a metal loop coming out of the wood for the rowers to grip.
Just 30 of these to modify mmmh! We don't have rowers under the decks. %)
ken
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This has got to be one of the most fascinating threads ever. The challenges you have set yourself seem daunting. However I have no doubt you will succeed.
May I suggest, that the two lower tiers of rowers, which are largely hidden by the overhanging top tier, could have legs omitted and merely pivot from the waist. Their legs did go through to underneath anyway.
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The real life oars were beasts so they fitted hand rails to them which were more ergonomic. This might help you anyway on providing a natural pivot point between 'Oarville' and his mate's hands and the oars.
Sorry, that last pun was a load of Rollocks %)
The big metal staple was also useful for chaining the slaves to.
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The big metal staple was also useful for chaining the slaves to.
Perfect. 8)
Thank you for the idea.
ken
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I'm still here, quietly working away. The ideas are coming thick and fast. %%
I have typed in a long description below and hit the ESCAPE key whilst typing and the whole letter disappeared.
I'm sorry but does anyone know what button to press to get it back. (if indeed it can ever be done ) >:-o
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Almost certainly lost forever Ken, it's happened to all of us. If you have a long post to make then compose it in a word processor and then copy and paste it into the Mayhem posting box.
If you don't want to bother with that for medium long posts then at intervals highlight all your text in the posting box and press the CTRL and C keys together. This will temporarily save it to the computer. (each time you do it the previous save is overwritten) If you need to get it back (such as when the upload fails for some reason) then just position the cursor in the posting box as if you were going to start typing and press CTRL and V and your saved text will reappear.
Colin
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Thanks Colin. Will remember next time. :-))
Today I've sanded down the filler and started with the Red oxide. 8) Meanwhile I've started on the dreaded mechanism (hold on to your seats !!)
A new idea is being tried and I'll show you when the 'parts' arrive.
ken
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It may not work having pressed the ESCAPE key, but you can retrieve text etc by typing Ctrl z .
Looking forward to more images Ken O0
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Here is the updated hull. She is sprayed with Oxide and looking quite smooth. I have added the side pillars which differ from the first way it was done.
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Looking good Ken.
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Thanks Ian. Not much to show today. I'm (not so ) quietly working on the rowing mechanism and now on version three ? I had a feeling it might not be so easy.. %) and I do so want to get it right. It's all great fun drilling over three hundred holes so far (don't ask !)
Hope to have some piccies tonight.
ken
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Good oh. I will look out for them.
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I have re-sprayed the hull with the new side panels fitted and it's looking a bit better.
I have also made the brass battering ram to go on the front. :D
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Now it was onwards to the dreaded oar mechanism. This is the 4th version ?? yes, I know, it does seem to go on and on but I have settled on this final version.
The drive bars are rigid and contain the moving pivots for the individual oars. They are secured with Nyloc nuts to allow them to pivot without loosening the threads. I have opted for the centre of the bar to drive the middle row of oars. Making all the holes line up was a mammoth job as I wish I had made the mechanism first and then drilled the holes in the hull after. ? They are not exactly spaced equidistant but look close enough, viewed from afar. %)
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Holy goat, you will be building automata and pianolas soon with all this expertise you are gaining.
It looks all neat and mechanical Ken :-))
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This should be child's play compared with servicing a Hammond Organ
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What a memory. %) There's a blast from the past. You haven't lived until you take them one of them apart. {-)
Cheers Ian. You can see why my thread has slowed down now. tehe.
Yesterday was spent deep in thought about fitting these mechanisms to the wooden sides ?? Quite a problem so I diverted to a bit of fun.
I had some canvas so tried to make the sail by painting my design on it. How did I know the runny paint would live up to it's name. %%
It's a great illusion, but me thinks another version will have to be made because it came out all wrong. There's no one alive that has seen the original sails so , it's all guesswork. Any revision ideas folks. ?
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You used to able to get special stuff for putting pictures on Tee shirts. You could print it from the computer and iron it onto the sail fabric!
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The fourth version of the drive mechanism has been abandoned and the final ? fifth version has been constructed.
It was found that the metal rotating version had too many problems. The main problem being keeping them in a vertical position to actually paddle without stopping them rotating around their axis.
I have now discontinued the idea of a Trireme as it was proving to be rather heavy and cumbersome for such a small craft, so will stick with the Bireme design. ( There's a month's work gone) :}
Here's how she looks with her new drive system and only 60 oars.
I have made a Punch with the correct oar fitting slots in it and punched out some 2mm plastic sheet.
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I've been slow recently as the cough has developed into a Two week major YUK. My wife even has a cough now and it appears to be 'going around' , according to the Doctor. Anyone else suffering with it ?. It really is quite debilitating and sounds horrible to any listeners. !!
Correspondingly, the model making has slowed down but I can report that I have connected up two motors and can watch the oars going for'd and aft in a most amusing way.
They are driven by my variable voltage generator (tools from my past) and the speed can be highly controlled from idling to the Captain going surfing. It really is an amazing piece of artwork and as fascinating as I'd hope it would be.
At the moment they only go on a horizontal plane as the vertical plane actions have yet to be built. I shall have to make a movie just to show this action alone once I stop the oars falling out of their holders. {-)
Thank you for the ten thousand views of this thread, so far. I'm feeling very humble.
ken
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This is an interesting project ken, so well worth the thousands of views.
My two main customers have both had it but I seem to have avoided it somehow. I must have had the virus before now and am immune. Pneumonia seems to be more prevalent this year as well {:-{
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Had it three times this year, really gets you down.
Colin
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Do you think it was a series of relapses or different virusses? If the former, then I hope you are getting your vitmins, but if the latter, then that is crap luck. One of my clients has two children under three so they pick up the sniffles that adults get where they turn into nasty flus etc.
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Don't know really. Starts off as a cold and then goes on your chest with a cough that takes 4-5 weeks to clear. Lots of people I know have had it. You would think that having had it once you might be immune for a bit but no.
Colin
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That's the one Colin. It goes for a day or two then returns savagely. The doctor put me on anti-biotics for a week but they are all gone now. I think I am recovering as it doesn't seem so bad.
I must be getting better as I had a go on the 'project' yesterday and did a little light work.
ken
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I have now made another version of the pushers, but from aluminium this time. The previous ones (in plastic) were bending a bit under the strain.
The difficult part was cutting out the square holes for the oars which took 2 days. Here they are in their new setting.
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By repositioning the holes more accurately, I have the oars better in line.