Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: dlancast on January 10, 2018, 05:46:56 pm
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Well folks, here we go again, with my next project. The USS Ranger CV-4 static build at 1/350 scale. Kit is again from Trumpeter with photo-etch detail enhancement. I have just cracked the box open and have started work on the hull by preparing her for bottom paint. I will provide pictures shortly, but am starting off right out of the gate with a question for you folks. This model kit is showing her color scheme with the 1945 period "Razzle-Dazzle" camo config. I have mixed feeling about it and the look, plus having to mask and hand brush all those different geometric patterns on the hull sides, etc. It would be stunning and unique in appearance, but my feelings are that I would like to show the Ranger as she would have been post 1942 vintage which had the standard G-5 (?) type dark blue/grey color, pretty much like all the other US Naval ships of ww2 that I have been building. I'm not afraid to take on the challenge of that camo paint schem. I'll take a poll from you good folks as to what you think I should do with it. More later. Dennis
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While I love the razzle dazzle, I would see if it distracts the eye from other detail such as aircraft etc. Give it a go, it will probably be the only carrier in the narrative you do in such a scheme, so it won't be one of a whole chore load to contemplate. I expect you can make your life eaier by pmasking and painting the hull before you add too many details so there is little risk of damage from hungry tape.
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Yes, that would be the plan to paint the hull early in the game. I think there are about 5 different colors going on and alot of masking. Still thinking on this It is very striking in appearance... from light grey to black, dark blue, med. blue, etc. I wonder how effective it was as camo in real life? Dennis
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I would imagine very effective Dennis. Painting camo at that scale sounds even more challenging than your previous carriers. Good luck I shall be watching with interest.
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Ok, unless something I find out from further research directs me otherwise, I will paint on the camo. I haven't learned how to spray paint (yet), so this will all have to be hand brushed with masking. It was the challenge part that hooked me. I love a challenge. Its this thing I have... if I can still get this old mind of mine to keep going, then I'll keep going... make any sense? Cheers! :-) Dennis
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Here are a couple of pics that will help with the visual of my "Razzle Dazzle" model ship. Work has started on the hull, drilling out the ports and masking off for the bottom paint. As is always the case, painting will be done in stages, more so with this paint pattern. Trumpter has done a wonderful job with this new kit. Lots of fine detail, clean castings and even a nice selection of photo-etch parts. Yup, the kit manufactures are starting to get smart and are including their own upscale sets in the kits. I'm looking at the USS Yorktown CV-5 as my "next" project (always have to have one in the wings right?) and that kit is loaded with PE. Dennis
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Further digging on paint scheme for the Ranger. The "Dazzle" scheme was done around 1944. In 1942, the Ranger was painted what they called a "Camo Mod", much the same as the USS Hornet. I have attached two photo's and I'm leaning towards going with this scheme only because I like the look... Dennis
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Here is the 1942 picture of the Ranger in the Mod. Camo Scheme.
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Evening Dennis..............they say a picture never lies ;D, however the photographic image of CV-4 displays 3 chimney stacks quite a little AFT of the representation in the kit photographs
My guess is that the picture never lies %)
Derek
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Well sir, sorry to say, pictures do lie. That is a deception due to the angle of the photo. I just checked my deck plate, which has openings for the stacks against the actual ship plans that I downloaded from the web (and they don't lie, unless mods were made that I don't know about). I think I'm fine with the accuracy of this model. Reviews are backing that up as they say that Trumpeter did a great job with this hull. I agree that one has to watch these kit manuafacters, many errors and I'm certain that there will be some with this kit. Thanks for your sharp eye sir. What are your feelings about the camo scheme, which way would you go with it? :-) Dennis
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Dennis.....in no way suggesting a criticism, however further photographic images from the WEB confirms the USS Ranger as twin x 3 stacks...with each set well AFT of the Island
My apologies, I stand corrected, in that the Trumpeter box art appears correct :-)), it was just the other cameo image [of the Hornet] that threw me
In some of the reading of CV-4 Ranger, the twin x 3 smoke stacks are spoken of as unique??
Derek
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Hi Dennis, she is one of those ships that was lucky with the camo schemes she wore. You have more than one choice of interesting scheme so definitly go with the 'Camo Mod'. It looks a little more forgiving in the accuracy stakes as well.
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No problem Derek, you have a sharp eye and one thing I like about this group is that things are spotted that really can help with an accurate build. I'm posting a couple of pics that help to see the stack location. Looks like the kit is pretty close. Yes... I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the camo mod. wave pattern, only because it just looks better to me than the Razzle Dazzle. You know, if you investigate on the web. about camo patterns, there are some pretty wild shcemes that were used.. almost scary. Dennis
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One further complication Dennis......it appears that the 6 stacks could be rotated to the horizontal plane [90 degrees down] and this as assumed would be for take off and landing of aircraft.....looking more at the Trumpeter box art......it appears that they are shown as lowered state
Derek
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That is true... I have pondered how I want to display those stacks. The nice thing about the kit is that the parts are designed so that once assembled, they can be rotated easily up or down. Now, do I show one side up and one side down or both up or down? From what I have read, they lowered those stacks if they had aircraft on deck or running flight ops and raised them for flat out steaming. I would guess that having the stacks in the up position would blow the exhaust up and away. I remember my Navy aircraft carrier days when I was aboard the newer Ranger. It didn't make any difference if the smoke was blowing up or out, it still came over the deck depending on speed and wind direction. I think it was more a removal of vertical objects for flight ops that they put them down. I could have "one up and one down" all the way around and that would solve the connundrum. O0 Dennis
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Dennis. Using the definition you have just given, if you are planning to show aircraft on the deck, especially if flying off or over, then all the smoke stacks should be in the lowered position.
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Tks Bob, I agree. Now.... if I can figure out a way to have an entire squadren flying over....... cheers! Dennis
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Encapsulating the entire model and its aircraft in acrylic resin as the paper weight people do would allow you to have the aircraft flying without the need for wires, but the whole block of resin, ship and aircraft would weigh quite a lot!
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Brilliant! {-)
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Dennis,
A wonderful book for your reference about Ranger is " Torpedo Squadron Four A Cockpit View of World War II", by Gerald W. Thomas. The author reported aboard Ranger as an ensign pilot on 1/10/42. The first 1/4 of the book is Ranger based right thru the North African invasion.
All stacks up or down, don't mix them. As an aside, I believe the USS United States was designed with folding stacks as well. Also, the Japanese horizontally vented almost all of their carriers until quite late in the war.
Jonathan
PS, Great under represented subject!
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Dennis,
Here is a nugget for you involving the Ranger. It will require you to come up with TBM-3W's though.
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Very interesting indeed. Did not read that part of her history. I have decided to render my model of the Ranger as she appeared in the 1942 time period. Her camo was what they called "camo-mod". Similar to the USS Hornet's camo scheme. I'm about 50% complete on that paint scheme at his moment. No air brushing, all free-hand brush. Dennis
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Camo is finally on the hull. The masking tape I used failed and managed to pull a large portion of my hull paint off.. first time I've had that occur. It was old tape or hull prep and I knew better. So, alot of hand work to correct, but its behind me now. Shaft supports and main shafts, plus rudder to install next, then the hanger deck is ready to install. I have to admire the lines of this ship. She was not fast for a carrier, probably could have used more power. Still, a beauty in my books. Dennis
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I can imagine the Petty Officers marking out the sheme with their sticks of chalk and getting the proportions right.
Lovely job Dennis :-))
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Nice! Reminds me of Hornet. I am planning an early Fletcher in 1/48 with that camo. Really looks good.
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Thankyou gentlemen, can't imagine what kind of crazy challenge that "dazzle" would have been if I had taken that route.. this was hard enough. The hanger deck is painted and mounted now and I'm working on the framing for the STBD stacks. I am very pleased with the amount of detail in the castings, even down to fire hoses that I am not sure one will even see when the model is complete. The hanger doors roll up in real life and I have decided to present mine partially open so that you can actually see inside the hanger at various places. I hope to have aircraft positioned on the hanger deck. Lighting would be helpful, not sure if I want to go there.. its been done by others for sure. Cheers, Dennis
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Dennis,
Check out this outfit. Pre-wired micro mini LED's. Might cause you to rethink lighting.
https://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/ledlights1.html
Jonathan
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Thankyou Sir, You are correct, now you have me thinking. It would be very cool to light the interior of that hanger deck and rig it to a battery outside the case with a switch. Great website. Regards, Dennis
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Saw her on TV last night, in a war documentary, landing planes on and the shot from Port quarter showed the lowered stacks. Quite a coincidence after reading about them here. {-)
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That would be correct, lowered stacks during flight ops. Similar, when I was stationed aboard the Forrestal Class Ranger, we were required to lower the antenna that were located around the perimeter of her flight deck during flight ops. Just makes good sense.... ;) Nuther thought, there are a number of roll up doors on both sides of the hanger deck. The kit shows all of those doors in the down position. There is a section about midpoint that will be open on both sides so that one can see into the hanger deck. I want to open as many of those doors as I can on both sides, about 3/4 of the way up. I've already cut one door for that purpose towards the stern. Looking at the historical pictures I have, not many that I can see are in the open position wither at sea or at dock. I'm sure they opened them for venting and depending on weather, etc. My main reason is that I want to purchase additional aircraft kits to show several with wings folded arranged on the hanger deck and still be able to see them. I guess its just a do what I want sort of thing. Just seems a wast not to be able to see a lot of that nice detail down below. Just thinking ya know. Dennis
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All the old carriers had Wire Aerials on the outboard edge of the flightdeck.
On the British Carriers the pylons were called Hockey Sticks as they had a curved top.
Some had Hydraulic motors and others Electric to lower them for Flying Stations.
Ned
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Nice feature.... ours were all manual. Went out on the catwalk at the outer edge of the flightdeck, walked out onto a plaform at the base of a fiberglass antenna that had to have been maybe 40ft long? You grabbed a lever, unlocked and rotated the antenna down or up. It had a counter weight at the base to make this possible. As a Radioman onboard the Ranger, our Message Center was located near the bow, just below the flight deck, so at times, we were asked by the deck crew to lower the antenna close to us.. normally, that crew took care of it. Memories.... has been over 50 years ago. Ship has been scrapped now.
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Ranger
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something didn't work. I reduced the pic size, maybe that will help. Just another shot of the USS Ranger CVA-61.
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And I bet that isn't the full complement of aircraft on deck either! You seem to find a new challenge on each of your builds, wether it be aircraft flying, or vast acres of etch, so maybe a little lighting to show off the hangar deck is this project's challenge?
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You re correct about that.. she could take more on deck and below. Ships company was over 2,000 sailors, Brown Shoes added another 5,000 aviation sailors. Ship got mighty crowded... probably nothing like todays carriers. Well gotta stretch it a bit I suppose. :-) Dennis
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First of (6) Stacks is installed on Port Side. Stack rotates as pictures show. Camo paint scheme on stack confirmed by historical 1942 pictures. Very fiddly assembly of parts, makes it a bit of a challenge. Dennis
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Looking in towards stern from STBD side of Hanger Deck, you can see fire hose cast in bulkhead... possibly not to be seen after full assembly.
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Picture angle is further aft, showing aft Port Hanger Door rolled up about 3/4 way to allow viewing of deck. Aft elevator is to Port. Dennis
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Dennis....there must be some mis-listed Naval images in circulation
This Carrier as shown is listed as Ranger Departing, but the Carrier has an angled flight deck & no 6 x stacks evident
Derek
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Dumb.......again I did not read beyond the name of Ranger :embarrassed:.......I will not post any cross references to Ranger CV-4 to CVA- 61....
All very confusing when the build I CV-4.................
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Easy mistake sir, USS Ranger CVA-61 is a Forrestal Class carrier, with the modern angled deck, which set the framework for all US carriers since. My humble plan is to build model of each class up this Ranger. Unless one of the kit manufacturers issues a new kit of the Ranger 61 at 1/350 scale, I will have to use one of her sister ships and rebadge and modify where necessary. At least that is my dream. Dennis
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Dennis,
Looking good. in that you are showing her circa 42" vintage does that mean you are going show her aircraft wit the bars on the rudder and the red roundels? See this at Navsource http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020445f.jpg or maybe even more interesting http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020452.jpg as headed to North Africa?
Jonathan
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Dennis...yes this CV-4 OK....but what is she storing these large projectiles for? ....{and 2 styles of shell.....pointed head [armour piercing] and domed head [explode on impact]}
They certainly appear to be much larger than for her as listed 5" guns..............Derek
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Thank you. Probably will be showing aircraft, ie. Wildcat, defender, devastator, with dark blue upper half, with red and white stripe rudder. Yes, I am aware of her time ferrying P-40's to South Africa... very interesting subject and worth giving some thought to. Would be more appropriate with the 1942 scheme. I need to investigate to see if I can find 1/350 kits of P-40's... might be cool to have a squad of them on deck, since I want to carry a number of aircarft on the hanger deck below. Thanks for the suggestion.. I like it, the more I think about it. Dennis
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You know, I noticed those cylinders or whatever on one of the photos I have downloaded. I do not know what they are. Gonna have to look into it. Tks, Dennis
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Just a few guesses based on their shape and apparent color, air=yellow or CO2. not sure of that color code. Could be O2, but doesn't look to be green.
Might consider Shapeway's as a source for P-40's
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Thank You Jonathan, I contact Shapeways and one of their designers is making 3D models of the P-40's I need... (actually, they will be a curtis varient design XP-42, which occured just prior to the P-40... at 1/350 scale and painted up, the models will be close in appearance.) I searched far and wide on the net and could not find a 1/350 kit or built model of the P-40. So, technology to the rescue. Dennis
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Making jewlery.... one of two cranes from PE. Fiddley to work with, but it comes out pretty real. Working on hanger deck sides that will support the flight deck. Lots of pre-painting before assembly, then touch-up after. Dennis
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Looking good Dennis.
I remember reading that US carriers would regularly open the roll up doors of the hanger deck for light and ventilation, , especially when warming up engines, which was often done on the hangar deck before planes were moved up to the flight deck for a strike mission. About the only time the roll up doors were closed completely was at night, to prevent light escape while planes were being worked on. I did as you when I started my Yorktown. I expect to see a bevy of activity in your hangar.
Jonathan :D
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Thanks Jonathan, It was really bugging me that all that wasted space on the hanger deck woud not be seen. At least there will be "peek-a-boo" glimpses of activity down there. If I'm not mistaken, one model manufacturer supplied a "clear" flight deck, not to be painted, so one could see down below. Nice idea, but that does not work for me. Since I will be featuring a squad of P-40's up on the flight deck being hauled to North Africa in 42, I plan to have a good number of regular ships aircraft with wings folded, or not, on the hanger deck. Would like to see pics of your Yorktown, are this on this Forum? Dennis
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I hope it doesn't get any smaller than this... :o Guess you would call these Ballards or Bits? Figure eight tie off or to a cleat. Dennis
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Eek! They are small. I love the crane.
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Stairs and railing in PE. Dennis
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Hi Dennis,
Coming on a right treat :} . Have you started thinking about whats next?
Rich
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If you mean by what ship model, it will either be the Yorktown or the old Interprize. I'm trying to go by class and the next ship in class after the Ranger is the Yorktown, then it will be the Essex Class, then the Midway Class and I want to conclude with the Forrestal Class and try to depict my old ship that I finished my Navay Career on "Uss Ranger CVA-61). Three things, I will either run out of room for all these models, run out of money, or run out of time. {:-{ Dennis "either way, its gonna be fun"
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That's only four models, so I have faith in your abilities, space and funds Dennis :O)
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Well Derek, the saga continues. Guess what I found in my kit, those strange cylinders or whatever they are. Trumpeter must have thought them important, there they are on sprue E-4. And so I dug into trying to find out what they are or where and came up with zero. But, I did come to some conclusions. My boat safety course always said that any flamable and compressed gas must be stored outside on the boat somewhere, or where there is very good ventilation, especially for gases that are heavier than air. So my conclusion is that those are compressed gas cylinders, possibly used for Fire Control System on the ship and piped to different compartments. Pictures I have seen show two racks of those cylinders, but not sure that would be enough for such a big ship. Unless, the gas is going to a very sensitive compartment, like ammo storage, or the galley? It appears that either the tip or the entire cylinder are painted white, or is that yellow in a black and white photo. That's my best shot, unless some of you folks can solve this mystery. I'd sure like to know for certain. Thanks again Derek. Sharp eye. :o Dennis
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One more suggestion, Welding Gas cylinders? D.
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Your interest in the identity of these cylinders reminded me that on the model of HMS Ark Royal (I think that is she) at the Fleet Air Arm museum, there are a number of torpedo sized cylinders along the bridge side of her flight deck. I wondered if they serve the same purpose as yours? They are not torpedoes or bombs as they have neither fin nor fuse/arming prop.
It's all interesting stuff!
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A shot in the dark - maybe the cylinders are fire fighting foam for the flight deck ? {:-{
Regards,
Ray.
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Ok, the mystery cylinders are installed. Dennis
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Dennis,
Very nice. I did notice that half of the cylinders still retained their valve protection caps. Most flammable gases were protected by the cylinder itself, ie acetylene, so I don' think the theories fit, yet. You might chech with the Naval Historical Foundation, or the naval History and Heritage Command, to identify them. I suspect that they are high pressure from their appearance, but the color of the tanks will identify them.
Jonathan
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Ok folks, my P-40's (actually Curtis XP-42) have arrived from Shapeways. 3D printed per my request to scale 1/350. Actually, they are not too bad for the small scale... mind you, not up to the detail accuracy of the Trumpeter aircraft kits, but with some careful painting, they will look like P-40's. I've got the camo color scheme identified and the decals. I only ordered eight to start with, they are not cheap, at around $3.00 US ea. The Ranger carried 74 when they ferried them to North Africa in 1943. I will order another eight and call it good, or maybe more, we will see how they look on deck. My kit only supplies a total of 15 aircraft. The ones with folding wings, I can have on the Hanger Deck, maybe some Wildcats on the Flight Deck. I'll sort it out. All in all, I'm pleased. Dennis
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Dennis,
Those should work! don't forget that Ranger carried four Vindicators with folding wings on deck with her load of 40's. Did you kit come with Vindicators? This is going to look fantastic.
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Yes it did, along with TBF's and F8F's. Those are pretty standard for this era and additional kits are readly available from Trumpeter. Currently finishing up with the stacks... articulating piping is fiddly to work with, but each swival quite nicely... like little kits on their own. Still need to decide if I want them down for flight ops or up for steaming. I'm finding this kit to be great for lots of detail. I can't even find a detail upscale kit out there yet for the Ranger. Seems to be enough PE that Trumpeter has got it covered. I will need to purchase Wind Breaks from Gold Medal, which will include some additional details that just may work for the Ranger. (kit is for the Hornet). Very pleasing, working for hours under my mag loop in a warm room as the storms rage outside.. boy, we have had the weather in the great North Wet. Cheers! Dennis
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Here is the first P40 in camo. Pretty small to paint. Just needs decals. I think it looks pretty close. Also a shot of STBD stacks so far. Dennis
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Hi Stan, I tried to reply to your personal msg. But that didn't work. What can say about your Gambler Bay.... I bow to the master.... beautiful and stunning. Now that's a scale you can get your hands on... lovely detail work. Curious now where the model is stored and what you plan to do with it down the road. I'm producing models at such a high rate, I'm running out of room. Its no different than my wife and her cross-stitch pictures that require framing when completed. Between the two of us, our house is filling up. I have sold a few models. Tks for sharing. The talent on this forum is amazing. Cheers, Dennis
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Hi Dennis to answer your questions.
The model is stored in a very large box that splits into two halves it also includes a draw to store the aircraft. The box keeps out sun light and dust giving protection to the model. The box is stored in the garage. With regard to the future of the model should I ever build the second one then Gambier Bay may be seen again long term who knows. The aircraft are from John Haynes fine scale models and painted using paints from white ensign now sovereign hobbies.
Hope this answers your questions.
Stan. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Thanks Stan. Good protection for a model that truly runs on the water. I choose to display mine in plexi cases, which I'm finding is a very expensive way to go. I'm too much of a chicken to learn to build my own, which would save me a ton. Your aircraft are beautifully rendered. Dennis
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Painted up the warhawk is a lovely model. The canopy works well in transparent plastic.
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Tks, but I changed the paint job.... Dessert Sand solid, except for canopy. Yes, I'm glad they rendered it in a frosted acrylic... man, that stuff is tough, it will break. I'll get pics when I apply decals. Dennis
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I bookmarked a few pics before shutting my laptop down and it's not remembered anythigng which is very annoying as your quandry regarding the "shell shaped" objects sacked up on the gantry on the transom had me obsessed as to find out more pics or find out what they were.
...Suffice to say I lost a very good pic of the stern, and I lost the link to the website (GRR!!)).
...But I had a clear BnW shot of the stern and it showed not the shell shaped objects but a line of maybe a dozen other objects across the beam instead. They were clusters of what looked like three balls each (two lower, one upper, bit like a clover leaf), I would guess 2-3 foot diameter each ball, maybe 6 feet separation right across the stern on that platform under the landing deck. I thought it was maybe some form of system with lamps set at angles / colours to aid landing on deck. Each lamp a different colour and angle you could only see if you were flying at just the right approach angle to land??? Maybe not! I coouldn't tell from the pic when it was taken, or why the bank of them was different from the "rocket" shaped items in the other picture which only spanned half the beam otherwise.
I'm perplexed by this. I spent allot of hours trawling the internet. It annoys me when I can't find an answer somewhere but to be fair I have spent a good few hours reading up on this vessel which I never heard of before which is all good.
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http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020421.jpg
... this pic shows something different, I'm fairly sure it's a pic from the stern. I am intrigued as to what that formation is compared to other pics in the area. I can't work out whether it's re-fits / original fits etc or not, it lacks the significant diameter ducting from the other pics to the platform anyway. Any ideas?
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RST......this is very interesting.....
I am sure that Dennis could accept that these are a series of rotatable for angular placement Landing Lights.... for stern on landing geometry/direction aid lights
It remains a mystery >>:-( why Trumpeter provided the brace of pointed shell like projectiles for the model kit?, and as shown in the earlier image of Ranger
The earlier image displays what appear to be two inflatable life rafts on smaller & stacked in the larger.....the corners of these could be confused as say 12 " to 20" diameter ducting or trunking??
Derek
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Gentlemen, well I certainly appreciate the hours you are spending trying to find out answers for me. Sadly, I have no clue what those are and I'm with you, I would agree that those could be landing lights for aircraft.. makes perfect sense to me. Most all the pictures I have are from NavSource and none show those lights. However, In going over those pictures, one from 1942, shows a two tub arraigment for AA guns, where my model kit shows 3, with a larger middle AA gun and two smaller cal. on either side. I have very small copies of the original build plans for the ship that I managed to download and they show the 3 tub config. for those guns. I know this must be very satisifying doing all this research, but you gentlement are spending way too much time on the internet and need to be building models. Thank you for the efforts.. most kind of you. ;) Dennis
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Gentlemen, well I certainly appreciate the hours you are spending trying to find out answers for me. Sadly, I have no clue what those are and I'm with you, I would agree that those could be landing lights for aircraft.. makes perfect sense to me. Most all the pictures I have are from NavSource and none show those lights. However, In going over those pictures, one from 1942, shows a two tub arraigment for AA guns, where my model kit shows 3, with a larger middle AA gun and two smaller cal. on either side. I have very small copies of the original build plans for the ship that I managed to download and they show the 3 tub config. for those guns. I know this must be very satisifying doing all this research, but you gentlement are spending way too much time on the internet and need to be building models. Thank you for the efforts.. most kind of you. ;) Dennis
Hi Dennis,
Ha, no chance. I am still intrigued by this. I have never been somewhat obsessed like this ever before!!!!
In regards to Trumpeter. To be fair on them -they have probably worked off the same pictures (probably less than we have today with 'tinternet!!!) and it's entirely reasonable at the scale to give an approximation worthy of the return on the price of the model.
Also, there are a few pics of the stern as you say -differences in armament through the few years she was in service. Begs the question how accurate you want to be I guess!!
....for all the supposed history and pioneering effort of the real thing there is little left on the web to go on apart from the later namesake.
By the way the term "PE" has had me going for weeks... e.g. "PE platform added". I may not have posted before but I've been googling "PE Platform, Ranger" etc. like mad and not come up with much as to where it was or its use. Recently realised "PE" probably means "Photo Etch"? , not part of the ship Excuse my own nativity!!!!! DUUH
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the corners of these could be confused as say 12 " to 20" diameter ducting or trunking??
...My netbook is hung up on updates and apparently didn't keep any bookmarks I made on this but apparently somewhere in pics anyway when the the Ranger changed from the pics showing the "balls" under the hanger to the other perfectly valid "rocket" shaped objects. I Can guarantee I saw in legit photos (all from port side) outer ductwork around the stern area around this platform but no pictures show anything clearly! I'll post a pic when I find it again -it was a hard find!
THE FORUM TOOK A WOBBLY WHEN I TRIED TO POST -I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TRUNKING IS!!!!?????
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I forget sometimes that acronyms can cause confusion. PE is Photo Etch... sorry. Photo-etch parts are becoming the "go to" for added detail. One can spend a ton of money on "Upscale" kits full of several or one sheet of Photo-etch parts.
Again, don't have a clue on the piping in stern area. Good point made, at this scale, one just can't get it all in.. oh, I suppose one really could if you want to start counting the rivets. Trumpeter probably has protacol for where to "draw the line" when it comes to detail, where it starts to become unreasonable without driving the price of the kit way beyond the average modelers means. I defer to a company called TechnoArt. Located in Latvia of all places. They produce, in my books, some of the best, highly detailed kits on the market. If you check the archives on this Forum, I posted the build of the USS Indianapolis at close to 1/200 scale. The kit cost me close to $1,000 US. I saw it, I had to have it.. end of story. It is now a center piece in my collection. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of detail, from resin cast hull, to bronze and brass castings, to several photo-etch sheets, decals, rigging. It was a massive project and really got me going into build WW2 US Navy Warships. I built a destroyer from another TechnoArt kit, it was cheaper in price, but smaller.. still with outstanding detail. Now, I have discovered Trumpeter, who in my opinion come very close to the quality and detail level as TechnoArt and at a much cheaper price point, one that I can afford. Nothing wrong with plastic, not these days. Ok, I can go on and on with this subject.
Again, I do appreciate the time and willingness to investigate to get a question answered. After all, that is a huge part of this forum. Best regards, Dennis
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Back to the madness, final Desert paint scheme and decals on P40. By the historical pic I have on the P40's on the Ranger flight deck on the way to North Africa, I'm led to believe that the paint scheme is right out of the factory. So, that is how I did it. I have started with the AA guns .50 cal. I need to build 47 of these little guys. the shield is Photo-etch and the gun is plastic. Just two parts, but crazy small. Can't afford anything going "Ping". Dennis
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Sorry fella, photo etch tech more than 40 years old pretty much well established now. Just when I see "PHxxx" I was usually expecting / looking for that part of the ship it was pertaining to -most others refer to that. My Bad, realise my mistake now.
Cheers,
Rich
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I am currently working on several of the small, tedious guns and radar, etc. that is both necessary and time consuming. So, large gaps in progress reports for you. Here is pic of the 5" guns completed. Dennis
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Don't fret Dennis. Your hobby takes as long as it takes. We will be here waiting patiently. After all it will be worth waiting for :-))
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Roger that! One of two gangways. So well to I remember coming aboard the USS Ranger CVA-61, when upon reaching the top, I first saluted the Flag on the stern and then saluting the Officer of the Day, asking "RM2 Lancaster, permission to come aboard sir!", then stepping aboard that "floating city", such a huge vessel, I was always proud, still am today and sadly, she is now scrap iron somewhere..... amazing the detail of Photo-Etch. Dennis
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Ok, the mystery cylinders are installed. Dennis
I believe that these are part of the ships smoke screen generating equipment. On the General Arrangement drawing available at http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cv4.pdf that area is labelled "Screen Tanks". It is possible that they are actually smoke floats designed for air dropping. They're obvious quite light or they wouldn't be stored upright.
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There you go. I concur sir and makes perfect sense. i knew you gents would find the answer. Thanks again. Dennis :-))
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Great research there TailUK :-))
On the stern level with the 40# Bofor mounts we see
Inboard - CO2 Equip, Tanks for Airplane Smoke Bombs
Outboard = 18 ?RCAREN Tanks
Tried a few translations/abbreviation's/letter changes & US Navy word/coding's to no avail
Derek
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Fairly certain that should read "screen tanks" those mimeographed blueprints can be the very devil to read.
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Yes, I would agree... so I can assume those tanks were "smoke screen" tanks... sure would make sense. Case closed? Tks for help guys. Dennis
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Stern gallery now taking shape. That PE is amazing stuff for detail. Dennis
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How wide is that gangway Dennis?
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If you mean the width of the stairs, they are just over 2mm wide. I had to pull the assembly off and drop it down some to get the bottom of the stairs to touch the deck... did the same on the other side as well. Tiny stuff. Dennis
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Starting on aircraft before installing flight deck. SBD-3 sitting on the Hanger Deck. No decals yet. I will attempt at placing aircraft stored below deck in locations where they can be viewed from outside the model looking in. I chickened out on installing lights. At least on this one. Dennis
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That's a shame, but cleverly placed, they will show up. I would paint them a little lighter than in real life to reduce the effects of the shadows.
Looking good!
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Been busy with the aircraft. 5 SBD's and 1 TBF have been built and painted. Decals will come last. The airplanes are placed on the hanger deck for now. I probably will have most located on the flight deck, aft half, with the forward section of the flight deck full of P-40's on their way to North Africa. This is small, slow detail work. Steady as she goes. Giving a ton of thought as to my next carrier build. I will be moving into the Yorktown Class and have 3 ships to pick from: the USS Yorktown, USS Hornet and USS Enterprise. I have about removed the USS Hornet from my list. The only 1/350 scale kit is made by Trumpeter, which has been my go to kit maker. Sadly, they blew it badly with the hull shape. That leaves the Yorky and the Enterprise, both made by Merit, which has done a beautiful job of hull shape and details, however, for some reason, they decided to add hull plates that are grossly way out of scale. Some sanding will take care of that mostly. I tend to favor the Enterprise because of her amazing war history. I'm still thinking. Cheers, Dennis
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You are doing a splendid job. There is no way I could work with anything that small.
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I imagine it would cost too much to buy both kits; one for the hull and the other for the rest of the parts? How badly off is the Trumpeter hull and could you modify it to improve it with less work than sanding down the merit hull and re applying any details accidently sanded off?
I am looking forward to see your flight deck covered in Warhawks :-)
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Expensive and not worth the cost in my opinion. Not sure how close the two would fit to each other. I'd rather go with the Merit kits and do a bit of sanding and get the shape that is right. Merit kits are good and loaded with details and lots of PE. Rumor has it that both Trumpeter and Merit use the same casting factory in China... similar tooling techniques. I'm still thinking. What if I were to get the USS Enterprise kit and obtain a very small scale of the Star Trek Enterprise and place it on the hanger deck, such that if you looked closely, with a bright light... bingo, there would be Capt. Kirk's Enterprise. I know, that is a stupid thought O0
Ok, here is a TBF with landing gear drying, decals mounted. For this model, the wings will be folded. I'll post finish of that later. Cheers, Dennis
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Your model, your rules Dennis!
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TKU sir.... its a fun project. Aircraft are a bit tedious, but that is very typical. Build on.... Dennis
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Especially as you are going that extra mile with folded wings etc.
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Ok, I went and did it. I ordered my next model to build. I have decided on the USS Yorktown CV-5 kit by Merit. This will be my first Merit kit. The Yorktown was the first of the Yorktown class and had a very notable carrer during WW2. Actually, what sold me was the documented accuracy of her hull. Only downside is the out of scale hull plating, which can be sanded down. Some rivet counters claim that their is some out of scale thickness in the stern area near the shafts. I can live with that. Kit comes with some very nice upscale items, which should make for a nicely detailed model. I can also purchase after-market upscale kits if I feel the need. I'm excited to have another model waiting in the wings. Dennis
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First of (5) F6F-3 Wildcats. I think I'll do 3 with wings folded and 2 with not. Kinda looks like a little bug. Dennis
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To be a bit pedantic, this is a Hellcat not a Wildcat.
Jim
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Arrrgh... I stand corrected. I always get the two mixed up. {:-{ Dennis
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They are lovely examples and will add lots of depth to your ship. I see a little weathering of panel lines :-))
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Thankyou... you know Trumpeter does an amazing job with nice little details like that at such a small scale to even resolve in the casting. Lots of fun. Dennis
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Progress report..... still working on aircraft. Mostly decal work ahead. Shifted to installing hanger deck support girders. Trumpiter really messed up with this area. Placement of supports are way off. These griders do not do anything structurally and will be very difficult to see once the flight deck is installed. Had half a mind to just leave them off the model. But, you know me.. can't resist. Another problem is the sides of the hanger deck walls are warped in various areas, so I was forced to install brass tubing spreader supports along side the girders to straighten the warped areas. I was warned about this from a kit review. Trumpeter needs to do some design work in this area. I will provide pictures later as I move along. Very frustrating section of the build, but this too will pass. Cheers! ok2 Dennis
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Hanger deck overhead girders installed and painted. All of this will be covered with the Flight Deck. I will position a few aircraft near the open hanger doors so one can see something inside. Dennis
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Did the USN hang disassembled aircraft from the girders like the RN did?
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What......like Bats? %)
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Yes, they did. In fact, I just read an article on one of the other forums where a builder doing the old Enterprise, actually hung a few extra aircraft up in those girders, never to be seen again... only he knows they are there. But, what the heck... its all history. Dennis
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Pop a bit of mirror on the hangar deck to show a couple hung up in bits (Unnassembled plane kits!)
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Really nice Dennis. Are the girders in the hanger scratch or part of the kit? Does this mean you will be adding a Gallery deck?
Jonathan
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Finally found it! I knew I'd seen a picture somewhere with aeroplanes hung from the rafters. It's the Enterprise not the Ranger but it looks like they had a lot of airframes in reserve.
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Thank you... yes, that is how they did it. The girders I installed are from the kit. Very flimsy and non-structural. In fact, I had to add brass tubing supports along side to get the warp out of the sides of the hanger deck. Not happy with that and now, I will have to trim some of those supports down, as its not allowing the flight deck to lay flat. Adding aircraft frames on this model would just complicate matters. However.... I am seriously considering doing that on the Yorktown, my next project. I can plan better this time. Mirrors and even lighting will have to be installed to make it all worthwhile, I would think. Its pretty wild to think they had inventory to rebuild a fighter in the field. Victory at Sea! O0 Dennis
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Flight deck is painted and decals for striping, etc. applied. Sprayed a matt clear coat to seal. Deck has not been glued on yet. On the foredeck is one P40. I hope to have about 16 sitting on the fore portion of the Flight Deck, depicting the Ranger transporting a number of Curtis P-40 KittyHawks fresh out of the factory, heading for North Africa in 1943. Flight deck is wood color per that time period. Still have arresting gear and wind breaks to install. Just recieved more PE from White Ensign Models that will give me more Flight Deck details and future aircraft details. No end to what is available. Dennis
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That is a first rate image TailUK! Very neatly stowed, but then you don't want that sort of stuff clattering about on loose cables in a heavy sea. As per usual, your progress is excellent Dennis.
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Detail madness.... Dauntless with dive brakes, wheel covers and tail hook. My plan is to have this baby landing, hooking a wire, pulling down for the stop. Can't believe it, this upscale kit I just got, even has interior cockpit detail, rudder peddels, control stick, seat, instrument cluster. I won't attempt until I get a few more aircraft or on my next project. I think these PE designers are trying to out-do each other at the expense of our sanity! :o Dennis
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Unless you did one that had been badly burnt on the deck after crashing I cannot see an easily visible means of displaying one showing her interior. I cannot imagine having a really cooked bird on one of your flat tops would be to your liking Dennis {:-{
They may have completely stripped aircraft on occasion but in the hangar.
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Flight Deck is glued. SBD just landed. Dive brakes still extended. Hook attached to arresting gear. F6F coming up on aft elevator. Working on island at this point. Dennis
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Model is nearing completion now. Into Wind Breaks and some PE railing. Radar detail. Wind Breaks from PE are pushing me into insanity.. probably the single most difficult process in the build. Each "picket" is supported by its own back brace. The brace is the size of a human hair and I can barily see it under my mag. loop.. probably my tired old eyes. Keeping it steady is near to impossible.... steady as she goes... is the old saying. Total of eighty braces between the two breaks. I think these PE designers try to outdo each other is detail, with the goal of driving the modeler nuts. Will anyone really care after I'm long gone? Anxiously awaiting my USS Yorktown kit due in early next week. Cheers! Dennis :((
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Fore Flight Deck Wind Break assembly finished and mounted. Dennis
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I can believe that Dennis. I think a human hair is quite in scale for such equipments!
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Correct about that. I keep telling myself, if I'm still able to do this kind of small detail work, then something is going right. I just received my next project, USS Yorktown CV-5, kit, scale 1/350 from Merit. I am told that Merit and Trumpeter use the same tooling factory in China. Well, when the box arrived today, I had my doubts as to the condition of the kit. I mean, the box was trashed... bad. So, I took the time and made a close inspection of all parts packed and have to take my hat off to Merit for doing such a great packing job on the kit. Come to find out the kit was shipped from Austria. I purchased through Amazon and I suppose that they source products all over the world. It took a couple of weeks to get here. Not so worried, with Amazon, they will replace the kit if its seriously damaged. They have just been fine folks to work with in every aspect. Ok, its back to the second Wind Break. Now that I have experience, it shouldn't be as difficult. Cheers. Dennis
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It seems each aircraft carrier has finer and ever finer detail to challenge you !
I hope the Yorktown does not go to half human hair parts.
Excellent job done - As always :-))
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Thank you Bob. As it turns out, there are several Upscale kits on the market already for this Yorktown model. All depends on how much money I wish to spend. The kit supplies 5 sheets of PE parts, I will need to determine which ones would not be duplicated wiith an Upscale kit. As you say, also depends on how much I want to challenge myself. On these carriers, so much is covered up at the end. Seems model making is changing at a rapid rate, for the best, I might add. Alot of it has to do with advances in technology and it may suprize many how much the circuit board manufacturing technology has contributed to this advance in detail enhancement. Always amazed. :-) Dennis
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That is the classic situation with kits, you can spend several times the original kits worth on upgrades!
A fellow member at an old club I belonged to in Bognor had an old Tamiya kit of a Sherman in his loft which at the time (late ninties) cost about £12.00. He bought three books on Shermans for about £22.00, then bought a resin turret and upper hull to make it into a cast hull M4A1 from Verlinden £17-£20.00 and an etch brass update set for £8.00. So, its that easy to turn a £12.00 kit into a £70.00 plus model! That said, its his money so its his right, though I think his wife threatened to perform a lobotomy on him with the handle of a spoon vis the ear canal, but we hobbyists have ways of getting our stashes in under cover :D
I am glad the box took the brunt of the damage Dennis. Even though the vendor will replace it, its the extra wait for the exciting stuff to be sent that annoys most %)
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Working with the P40's that will be on the fore portion of the Flight Deck, being transported by the Ranger to North Africa in 1943, my dilemma was the props produced by the 3D printers where way out of scale, so I nipped them off and replaced with Photo Etch props. I then needed spinners and we are talking small spinners. I happened to have some 1mm square plastic stock, so I carved out spinners and glued them on. I think they will do the trick.. perhaps a bit smaller than they should be, but better than the 3D printed ones. This is a miniture world for sure. Dennis
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At that scale, making such things is an achievement, so anyone querying them should make a few themselves first. They look good Dennis.
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Thankyou sir. Decals going on now. I have a original photo taken from the bridge in 1943, while the Ranger was ferrying P40's to North Africa, I want to attempt to place my models close to what that picture shows and then take a shot from roughly the same camera angle for a compare shot I'll post later. Gotta have fun right? ;) Cheers.... Dennis
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Ok, aircraft are completed and mounted. For fun, I photo edited the picture I took a roughly the same perspective as the original photo done in 1942 of USS Ranger on her way with a load of P-40's to North Africa. Its not exact, but interestingly close. Dennis
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lovely work, sorry i just arrived to late to watch her come together
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Don't know if any one noticed, but in the 1942 photo, in the left hand line of aircraft the first bottom left appears to be missing the blades on the prop !!!!! also the second one as well. (the first is mostly off camera)
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The picture did have a caption that explained the missing blades.... they were running the engines up. :-) D.
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Which one is the model? :-))
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thank you! :-) D.
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PE produces a nice little tug with a torpedo carrier backing under aircraft. Seems to be no limit. Dennis
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AARRRGH! My eyeses imploded :}
That is a nice touch and helps give life to the model.
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Finished pictures.
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Torpedo load.
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Beautiful job Jim. I guess you use a magnifier to work on those tiny details, I am sure I would need to. Looking forward to the next one of your fleet.
Greg
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Amen to that. I thought you still had a while to go yet on her, but then you go and get it all completed smartish!
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Thank you so much.... well, it did come together very quickly at the end. Once the aircraft were done, the build was done. As I look at the completed model and compare her to the Lexi, that island is rather dinky and as I understand it, the island was added later, after launch. Having the smoke stacks on the sides and aft, reduces the shape of the island. They tied the exhaust with the island design on later carriers as a cleaner way to go... up high and to the side. The Langley, Lexington were "one-offs". The Ranger was the first purpose built carrier from keel up... strange they didn't get it with the stack design until the offical "class" carriers began, with the Yorktown. Evolution can be strange sometimes. Regards, Dennis
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Dennis,
Looking wicked good!
I hope you will not mind one historical point. JJ Clarke was the first CO of the Yorktown CV-10, an Essex, and he introduced the use of tractors on deck to move aircraft. That would have been after April of 43' As such it may be a little early to have seen one on Ranger. Certainly looks appropriate anyhow!
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Oops.... sri bout that. {:-{ Dennis
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I take that "oops" back. I know I remember seeing "tractors" on the Ranger in 1942. Here is proof. Picture taken aboard USS Ranger CV-4 in 1942 in route to North Africa. Testing machine guns on F4F-4 Wildcats. Dennis
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Dennis,
A picture is worth a thousand words... I can't argue with that! Good find. I'll speak with the Admiral. It may take a bit to get back to you because I'm not planning on heading in his direction for a while, I hope.