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[boatmadman]

I am trying to figure out the best and most cost effective (read free, or cheap!) way of getting a good edge on my chisels.

I currently use ezylap hones and finish on leather with metal polish, but I cant get consistently good results.

Has anyone used one of these, if so, comments please?

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9288116&fh_view_size=6&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=knife+sharpener&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1215257292315&isSearch=true&selected=products

Any other ideas?

ian

[djrobbo]

Hi ian.....yup  got one of them there things......works a treat once you get used to it..........when i first got it i must have been the only house in the street where absolutely everything was razor sharp......knives...scissors...shears.....budgies beak ...you name it i sharpened it.......

          Note to self....must get out more !

                 good tool well worth the money...

      regards.....bob.

[Damien]

Hi Ian, If you already have a bench grinder of any size, while useful these machine are not really nessessary.
As long as the stone on the grinder has fine grit and is in good condition an excellent edge is easily aquired with a final dressing on an oil stone will give a shaving quality edge.
A google search for "chisel sharpening forum" will give plenty of reading here's the first i found.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=24637
A newby gives his take on what he thought was a dark art.
Damien.

[HS93 (RIP)]

OK this is how" I " sharpen chisels, and how I was taught a long time ago , and it has worked for me
Picture 1 shows the stone I use its a fine joiners stone and I use light oil and a bit of wd to clean it with , I sometimes leave it on the window ledge in the sun for a bit as it lifts the rubbish out of the grain my stone is about 50 years old and is starting to get a bit of a dish in it you can flatten them on a bit of old glass and some valve grinding paste and about two worn out elbows

Picture 2 my cheap grinder standard stones, but a bob in a dremel will do as long as you take your time, I did this for a few years after I left work and lost the use of a grinder, it works ok. I also put a bit more angle on than they are when supplied as they will not be used for rough work and strength is not a problem, they chip essayer if bashed with a hammer.

Picture 3 shows chisel after grind note no black bits don't overheat when grinding

Picture 4 shows the back of the chisel I was trying to show the burr on the end that should be right across

Picture 5 shows after the cutting angle is put on , this is slightly more than the grinding angle.

Picture 6  place chisel / tool on the stone with the newly honed part over the edge of the stone
the most important part of it all is to always keep the tool perfectly flat on the stone and slide the cutting edge on to the stone and polish the  back I find this the most important part as this has to be perfectly flat to get a usable edge



Picture 7 shows the finished back after polishing and 5 shows the front

This is how I do it others may do it different

[Damien]

Great decription HS93, the only thing i'd add is the importance of regular dipping into a pot of water to stop the metal overheating, If any brown or black heat marks appear they must be carefully ground out as those marks indicate the tempering (strength) has been remoeved from that section and will be too soft to hold a reliable edge, otherwise it is exactly the method i was taught by my dad and again in trade  school '64 - '68

[tobyker]

Doesn't anyone use an Eclipse honing guide - one of those gadgets with a roller that you clamp to the chisel or plane iron that holds it at the right angle to the stone?

[boatmadman]

Thanks guys, great help and info as usual.

I read somewhere that the only problem with a honing guide is that its just about imposible to get exactly the same angle every time you hone, resulting in a dull edge.

Ian

[kiteman1]

Eclipse honers used to come with a guide which gave the measurement from the chisel tip to clamping point for different grinding angles but ity's not necessary to regrind every time unless the tool is chipped. 

As far as using an oil-stone is concerned, the normal practice is to use a figure of eight motion when sharpening the tip in order to cover the whole surface. The stone needs to be lubricated with light oil while sharpening and not allowed to dry out.  Afterwards it should be wiped dry to avoid the oil residue clogging the pores of the stone. The result will be that the stone will not wear excessively in one place, nor will it glaze over.  The need to regrind the stone will be reduced to vitually zero.

It's important also to buy good quality chisels, not the cheapo rubbish from the pile it high stores.

I have a stone which belonged to my grandfather and which is stiil flat after more than eighty years.   

[BobF]

Hi all,
I use those large diamond sharpeners.  They come in three grades, and always stay flat.
I do have the aforementioned sharpening guide, but the biggest problem with this method is that it can cause a dip in the middle of the stone as already mentioned. Before getting the diamond sharpeners, I always sharpened a plane blade to restore the stone.
I always had very sharp plane blades.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Eclipse honers used to come with a guide which gave the measurement from the chisel tip to clamping point for different grinding angles but ity's not necessary to regrind every time unless the tool is chipped. 

As far as using an oil-stone is concerned, the normal practice is to use a figure of eight motion when sharpening the tip in order to cover the whole surface. The stone needs to be lubricated with light oil while sharpening and not allowed to dry out.  Afterwards it should be wiped dry to avoid the oil residue clogging the pores of the stone. The result will be that the stone will not wear excessively in one place, nor will it glaze over.  The need to regrind the stone will be reduced to vitually zero.



I have a stone which belonged to my grandfather and which is stiil flat after more than eighty years.   

Sorry to have to tell you a figure of eight motion wears the stone in the centre, because you cross it twice on the up and down stroke , you need to use all the stone when sharpening, and if you use a honing guide you just damage the stone, when you use your stone several times a day as a good tradesman would do you leave the oil on and lid on , as joiners sharpen more than chisels on there stone you cannot guarantee that all the stone is used , all of the time . I stated at the start it was how "I" sharpen tools so I did not get someone who's gradfather had given them a stone telling me what I was doing wrong .

my last post
hs93

[RipSlider]

My dad taught me roughly the same way as HS93, but to use two grades of stome - on coarse(ish ) and one fine. The fine stone is an actual whet stone, which is a bit soft, so hence then harder coarse stome first.

I think I've ruined the stone though - it has a track all along it. At some point I'll have to flatten it.

My mothers dad used a completely different technique to sharpen blades ( chisels included ) - he'd use a grind stone to get the rough edge, but had a piece of lead ( possibly a lead alloy - did seem a bit hard to be pure lead ) about the size and shape of a bar of soap. Using a technique that is pretty difficult to describe, but it was kind of a "napping" action - as though he was making a flint arrow head he'd bring one edge to sharpness incredibly quickly. And then on the flat rear side he'd rub in tiny circles to de-burr.

I tried it a few times when I was younger, but I never even came close to getting the hang of it. It did make for amazingly sharp blades, but if I remember right the technique only worked on blades with a single sided edge - like chisels or razors. I'm pretty sure he used a stone to do double edged blades like a pen knife for example. It was a LOT faster than using a traditional stone method I think - only 5 minutes or so to take a completely messed up blade to full sharpness agan.

Anyone else used this method, of know of it?

Steve

[Peter Fitness]

HS93, I don't think anyone was telling you that you were doing it "wrong", but merely giving their preferred methods.

I spent 36 years in the meat industry, working in butcher shops and abattoirs, and sharp knives were an absolute MUST, especially for skinning cattle (in the days before hide pullers, when the beast was entirely skinned by hand). The knife needed to have an extremely sharp and very smooth edge, that is no slight nicks in the edge which would catch on the tissue between hide and carcase. Knives were sharpened on fine grade oil stones, and many of us used kerosene as a lubricant, although some used soapy water. The kerosene had the effect of floating the fine steel particles out of the surface of the stone, therefore allowing better honing of the blade. The knife was then finished off on a SMOOTH steel to give a razor edge. I might add that the knife was washed clean before use, to remove all traces of the kerosene.

One thing I did learn was that you NEVER use the same stone for sharpening knives, as you would for chisels or plane blades, the reason being that sharpening knives tends to wear a curve in the centre of the stone, as well as round off the edges slightly. Using a stone worn in this manner for chisels and plane blades would result in those tools having uneven edges, as the stone was not perfectly flat. HS93's photos show what I believe is a perfectly sharpened chisel, with the concave face from the grinder, and a beautifully straight sharp edge from the stone at just the right angle, which enables the tool to make a very clean cut in the wood.

Peter.

[sheerline]

I lost my stone when moving house and in desperation one day I raked a new piece of emery paper out of the cupboard and taped it all around the edges, and fixed it down flat onto a smooth work surface. With the addition of a little oil I used it as I would with the old stone and hey presto, one razor sharp chisel! Now, purists would probably scorn this method and it can have its drawbacks because if you get the angle wrong, you can rip the paper but if kept flat with used with smooth even pressure it seems to work fine.
The other advantage is that you get a large surface area to work from and can select finer and finer grades of paper until the face of the chisel looks like a mirror.
So for those unfamiliar with sharpening stones or in the absence of one, give this a try as the end result is very rewarding. I have to say this is typical of me as I always improvise in the absence of 'correct' equipment but I find it works to my satisfaction and haven't bothered with an oil stone for years but I just know purists would probably deride me for doing it. 

[Billyruffian]

I always had problems sharpening any edge tool using stones.  It doesn't take that long for a stone to start taking on a concave shape - which is not good.

Early into my lutherie work - thats making guitars to normal people  I was taught the "scary sharp" system and still use it today.  In its simplest terms you use progressively finer grits of sandpaper on a flat surface like a piece of glass.

If you follow the system you will have a blade that WILL take the hairs of your arm.

Remember it's the secondary bevel and a well honed back to a chisel that is all important.

Even though I now have the Tormek system - which is excellent - I still go back to the "scary sharp"

This link may help.

http://wood.bigelowsite.com/articles/scary_sharp.htm

[boatmadman]

I just tried the scary sharp system on micromesh paper - now that is sharp! The hairs on my arm jump off in fright!

I measured a wood shaving taken off with a small chisel sharpened this way, it was 0.0035". Some room for improvement yet 

Ian

[Greggy1964]

I agree with Madboatman

I go a bit further and use a piece of 2" thick glass that came from a huge fish tank that was taken out when a local pub closed down.

It gives me a perfectly flat surface to work on plus if its wet - the wet and dry paper sticks to it if I smooth out all the air bubbles.

I can get my chisels so sharp and smooth I can see my face in their backs as clear as a mirror!

There is a kit for polishing perspex bubble canopies on gliders with stupid fine grades of cloth backed wet and dry that really finishes the job.

Its a lot of hard work on new chisels but once your there, its easy to keep up as long as you don't nick the blade edge.

Trouble is after all that bother you don't want to blunt them shaving wood!

[steamboatbob]

Scary sharp is good but in reply to getting a concave on ya stone its easy to fix

1 find a flat bit of concrete and then make a cuppa tea or coffee
2 pour some water onto the concrete
3 sit down next to the wet patch and drink ya cup of coffee while gently rubbing your concaved stone on the concrete
4  15 - 20 mins later = 1 flat sharpening stone just make sure that the concrete is not too rough