HMS Tireless 1/64 Build

[Mankster]

I will be posting updates on my current project, HMS Tireless in 1/64, in her 2004 guise. She is based on an old Eden/ Sheerline Trafalgar hull (the current Sheerline Trafalgar has a few updates). I purchased this second hand (this hull has been halfway around the world, to the States, France and now now back home) and some work had already been done, notably to the sail and side flank sonar arrays, which I have continued. The original propulsor shroud was replaced with a more scale like version which will require a little more profiling before its right.

I acquired this hull early in the year and started renovating and accurizing her but neglected to take suitable pictures. I have just started on her again and will be documenting a little more thoroughly this time.  The full series of pictures will be on my website, with only the poignant ones here for clarity. I only purchased the hull, so I will be building a watertight module for her on the same vein as the one on my Akula ( which has pr oven very reliable to date) but with a few refinements.





Here are are the some parts of the hull. Bits weren't fitting to my satisfaction, so I have stripped everything back to start again. I have done some work on the planes and ballast tank vents.







There are some extra holes and tubes fitted to the lower hull (the original builder was going to fit a  different type of ballast system) which will need to be removed and filled and the tile pattern re-scribed.


There is a gap between the the shroud and propulsor which will need to be filled and profile which is the next task.

[Subculture]

Ramesh, What's the inside diameter of the shroud, and the diameter of the propulsor?

I ask because I'm wondering if the Vanguard propulsor might fill out the gap for you. I'm sure Simon would cast you up a separate prop for a reasonable price if you're lucky with the dimensions.

[Mankster]

Thanks Andy, I have actually made a start filling out the gap with putty and sanding back, and its actally turning out better than I hoped. Its too late to get a measurement of the inside of the shroud now without chiping off the filler. Obviously if it all goes belly up I'll give that a go.

[Sub driver]

Hi Mankster,

I will watch with interest as always
regards Sub.

[colin-stevens]

Ramesh, stick a link in to youre site please, googling a big fat zero
colin

[Mankster]

Ramesh, stick a link in to youre site please, googling a big fat zero
colin

Click on the little globe under my avatar, the link under my signature or from my profile page, take your pick.....


Ok here you go....  www.rcmodelsubmarines.co.uk
(graphic intensive flash based site, those on dial up beware)

[das boot]

Good luck with it Ramesh, I know it will be perfect...

Rich

[Turbulent]

This should put other T's in the shade - glad I'm selling mine!

[Mankster]

Thanks guys, my aim is to make it as true to scale in appearance and performance as possible.


I filled the gap between the propulsor and shroud with epoxy putty and sanded it smooth and it came out rather well. Given that there is no puplic information on how the real one looks exactly, I can live this  The new profile of the exterior of the reworked shroud is better seen in the second picture.

[Mankster]

The top an bottom hull don’t quite meet at the stern. It will clamp together but I didn’t want to put any tension into to the hull. Small gaps can normally be filled  but then the stern wouldn’t taper smoothly to the propulsion cone.



I made a vertical cut with a razor saw, but not all the way so as to separate the top hull into 2.



 I then jimmied a 50p coin into the top which opened up a gap enough to push the stern of the top hull down to meet the bottom perfectly.



I used epoxy putty to fill the gap

[Subculture]

The propulsor has come out better than I thought it would.

What motor are you going to be using for drive?

[Mankster]

I haven't figured what motor to use yet. Its probably going outside the dive module so I am flexible. I was thinking along the lines of a Graupner 720 Torque motor (4100rpm no load) on direct drive. I think Sheerline supply a 550 type motor with a 5:1 gearbox. I am not sure if this is a commercial unit or an inhouse item. I wonder if a gearbox will add bulk and noise.

[Subculture]

I think a 720BB will work very well . The Trafalgar's I've seen use a planetary gearbox for reduction, which are very compact. But you have a lot of room inside the hull for a larger motor.

[Mankster]

The hull is moulded thickly with polyester resin and is self supporting, hence the top hull is designed to sit entirely on the bottom and be removed in 1 piece. This makes hooking up the top rudder a little harder. To help with alignment and simply the rudder arrangement, I have gone the more common way & cut the back of the top hull and will bond it to the bottom.

[Mankster]

Some hull detail.






I have taken a break from the hull and moved on to the dive module. Once again I am making the innards out of PVC.



Here are the 10 discs that will go to making the entire module. The outer 2
4 discs will be the endcaps, and the slightly small diameter central 6 will form the module (not shown is the central servo/equipment tray)

[colin-stevens]

comin along a treat.
hope you figure out a wat too make the hull stay joined. dont fancy rescuing a top half again.
colin

[Subculture]

I would use that little 'widget' that is sited forward of the conning tower as a fastner. Either attach a machine screw to it's underside, or (better) make a baynet lock pin (think of a  light bulb) that attaches underneath. Invisible, and bomb proof.

[Mankster]

With the Akula, I had to pack quite a bit of foam into to the upper hull to stop her rolling. So it was pretty buoyant and kept wanting to rip itself off when submerged, a more positive locking mechanism would have been the way to go with that boat. The Typhoon had the same system but at the top hull wasnt positively buoyant, and there was no such problem. I'll wait and see how this one turns out 

[colin-stevens]

on the other hand its so much more fun to watch SOMEONESELSES boat sail in 2 seperate directions

[Subculture]

I'll be passing by the model shop this week. They used to have some Protech 720BB's in stock £16-17 IIRC. Would you like me to pick one up if they still have any?

[Turbulent]

looking well mate, just started on the WTC for my Vanguard this afternoon,I'm makng the end caps in Resin (As I did for my Gato), turned down & fitted with O rings,I used Perspex on the Alpha but it was a struggle on my small lathe.

I'll set up a build post when I get going a bit more.

[Mankster]

I'll be passing by the model shop this week. They used to have some Protech 720BB's in stock £16-17 IIRC. Would you like me to pick one up if they still have any?

I'll be fitting the motor/ gearbox from the Sheerline Trafalgar, it seems to work very well on 12v with the propulsor and is pretty compact. I plan to use the WTC is my Alfa hull and that has a pretty heavy  prop, so a 720BB would come in handy. So yes please- get me one if they still have some. I should be able to make the morning session of Brockwell Lido Sub run on the 11th of next month, so I'll pick it up there.

looking well mate, just started on the WTC for my Vanguard this afternoon,I'm makng the end caps in Resin (As I did for my Gato), turned down & fitted with O rings,I used Perspex on the Alpha but it was a struggle on my small lathe.

I'll set up a build post when I get going a bit more.

Ahh good..., Tireless will have a SSBN to accompany, if not at one of the  Brockwell runs, at Norwich in the summer.

[Turbulent]

Hoping to be on the water by the Feb run, PC & I are going to pay you a visit.

Itching to get started on the V, my lad's away on the real thing at the moment - under the water till March!

[Subculture]

The other alternative would be to look at a brushless motor. Robbe do a nice unit which they're using on the 212 kit.

[Mankster]

I have finished cutting out and drilling all the pvc pieces that will go to make the innards of the WTC. Just have to cut the rods and tubes that will hold everything together. Total length will be 85cm/33.5" with a diameter of 110cm/ 4.5". The motor will be house in a smaller separate dedicated WTC which will be specific for the boat while the main module can be moved. Batteries will be 2x 12v NiHM packs housed under the WTC, in the wet area of the sub.

[Subculture]

More PVC than a bondage convention!

No 720bb's available at 308. Apparently they sold out a while ago, and Protech aren't supplying them anymore.

Might be worth doing a search on here, as I seem to recall someone was knocking out Graupner 720's fairly cheaply.

Andy

[Mankster]

I received the motor I am going to power Tireless from Sheerline Model Submarines. Its the same drive unit they currently supply in their 1/64 Trafalgar kits. Shown next to a 550 motor for size comaprison. The motor itself is a 385 sized unit, which is mated to a smooth turning 5:1 compact planetary gearbox. All Sheerline Trafs I have seen have had more than enough motive power on 12v using this motor-gearbox driving the same multiblade prop as mine, so this should do fine.

[colin-stevens]

you dont hang around do you? rready for the first brockwell in 2009 then!!!???

[Mankster]

you dont hang around do you? rready for the first brockwell in 2009 then!!!???

Whilst I aim to make it for the morning session of the Jan 11 Pool run, Tireless will never be ready for that. I'll do my best to get her to a sailable condition for the last Brockwell Lido run of the season. Not much time to spend on her over the holidays, still fine tuning the bits that to make the WTC, working out where the electronics will all go. I am planning on fitting 2 ESC's so I can  use it with twin motor subs as well but I havent got them yet.

[Subculture]

Have you purchased your ESC's yet?

[Mankster]

Nope!

[Mankster]

The main WTC is nearly done, just electronics to install and wireup, and shorten the tie rods. I couldn't resist puting it all together to see how it looks. Its a rather different construction to Turbulents Vanguard, under construction at the moment, as I will be using piston tanks in this one.

[Turbulent]

You like your Piston tanks  - only had my P Boat fitted with the Ron perrot type & had nothing but trouble with them. I have to admit that when working the system is very stable.
Engineering Pistons is still a little out of my league as well!

[Mankster]

I will be using Engel piston tanks in this one but piston tanks are relativily easy to make. If you can turn an end cap you can make a piston. I looked into it for this build before taking the easy wayout, but I will be making my own small piston trim tanks for my next build. The hardest part is finding a source of cheap spur gears and matching pinion (unless you know how to cut your own) and press fitting the ballrace bearing which carries the piston rod on the spur gear. easiest solution seem to be Orings on the actual piston, though Airzet seats are neater but hard to get holf of, in the UK at least

[Subculture]

You don't need to worry about press fits these days, we have Loctite. 

[Turbulent]

I'm going to have a go at building a Piston one of these days, I've an idea how I want to do it.

I think MFA do Brass gears.

[colin-stevens]

somewhere on this site is a link to a manufacturer of gears. cant remember where, may be in the lifeboat section. when i get more time i'll oink it out and post it here.
off to destoy the last of my brain cells now, so have a good'un, and all the best
colin

[Subculture]

HPC do gears, but aren't cheap.

Muffett are cheaper, as they also sell moulded gears (HPC are machine cut). Metals gears aren't essential, and from a wear point of view, plastic is better, but they will need to be thicker to avoid stripping.

Very cheap options include stripping junked printers (especially laser printers), old electric drills. Also worth looking at spare parts for R/C cars, as the gears for these can often be quite reasonabley priced.

Meccano have brass gears available. There not especially cheap, but they're strong and well made from brass and/or plastic.

[Mankster]

I had most of last month off building, but I am back at it now. Here I have nearly completed the separate motor housing. I am installing the motor in its own small WTC which can be dedicated to the particular sub with just the main WTC containing the ballast tank moved between hulls. I figured the slow turning geared motor for this multibladed prop may not be suitable for other sub where I usually direct drive the props. Though to be honest, I can only seem my self using the main WTC in 1 other hull, my other hulls will probably have a dedicated dive system.

Here are the bits that go together the ALU motor mount that also holds the Simmering seal is fashioned after the Engel item that is supplied in the Lafayette kit.



Here is dry fitted. I still have to make the oring seals for the endcaps and tidy off the threaded rod. I will be using domed nuts and small orings to waterproof the threaded rod ends. The unit id 60mm dia and 10cm long.

[Martin - admin.]

What's that purple 'Signal Quality' device?

[Mankster]

What's that purple 'Signal Quality' device?

Its an 8Ch Receiver by Schulze. its an a 40Mhz PPM rx that has onboard signal post processing and can filter out glitches and interferance passing on only clean signals to the servos. Used mainly by the flyboys on 35Mhz but useful for submarines and fast electrics. It has a 'glitch counter to show how many times the RX has had to correct the signal, so helps with rx and aerial placement, range checks and an indiction of  how 'electrically dirty' the enviroment your sailing in is. http://www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.com/alpha-e.htm IMHO these are one  of the best 40MHZ FM Rx's available, they take Futaba crystals too.

[Mankster]

Another good 40MHZ rx is the Hyperion range that also features transmitter recognition, so if someone else switches on, on your frequency, it only accepts signals from yours.

[Turbulent]

Trying to get hold of a simmering seal - where'd you get yours?

[Mankster]

Trying to get hold of a simmering seal - where'd you get yours?

I've got a stack of these 4mm x 11mm, PM your address and I'll put one in the post gratis.

[Turbulent]

PM sent - Cheers mate.

[Turbulent]

All gone quiet down there!

[Mankster]

Yep, had a big tidy up in the garage, WTC nearly done, just a bit of wiring to sort out. Then its back to sorting out the hull. Pics soon.

[Mankster]

After a couple of months busy with other things, I have finally got around to doing some more work on this project. The WTC is now finished save for save for fitting the push rod seals and other tiny bits. Pitch controller still to be fitted. I hope to have her bath tested in a week. 2x 600ml piston tanks and Engel controller. Battery is 12v 4.6AH and goes under the WTC.

[Circlip]

That's a really well executed lump of engineering Mankster.   

  Regards   Ian.

[Mankster]

Tight, but she fits