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Author Topic: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated  (Read 8577 times)

invasion

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First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« on: December 29, 2008, 11:11:54 am »

Hi, to everyone on the forum looks like I will be able to learn a lot from you guys and you never know in a few months or so might be  able to give some advice ;)

Well for Christmas I got a Billings Norden No. 603, now as I said this is my first ever boat build, and I would of liked a bit more instruction than comes with the Norden.

Can somone advise me on the best type Glue to use for this? or maybe a Hot glue Gun is in order ??

The other thing that is puzzling me is in Fig 1: in the instructions it says Cut out Frames 1-10 but they are not numbered on the sheet so I am not really sure if I have them in the correct order ?? they look ok but I could have one or two the wrong way round...and I am finding really hard to tell as it is quite a complex shape and being new to all of this. So should they of been numbered on the sheet seems odd to me that they are not??
Then I thought they must be printed on the sheet in order but from 1-10 but this doesn't seem to be the case either  ??

So can anyone help me with this it would be much appreciated sorry for such basic questions  :embarrassed:

thanks in advance 
 
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andyn

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 11:22:20 am »

I've never built one of these, but i would advise against a hot glue gun, as they do have a tendency to drip everywhere and is likely to drip all over your nice shiney boat.
My dad has been building a Billings Bluenose Schooner for about the last 20 years and was using PVA
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invasion

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 11:30:00 am »

Hi thanks for the reply   :-)) so regular PVA will do the job ?? you would think they would put a tube in the kit as it is a beginers kit!
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Arrow5

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 11:45:58 am »

If it is an all wood kit I`d seek out some exterior PVA although not for prolonged immersion, they use the term "weatherproof" not waterproof. It will still go slightly rubbery after a while. Be sure to paint the inside of the hull when complete.  I use Titebond II which is weatherproof, easy to clean accidents ! Model aircraft shops will have it in stock,it dries yellowish so careful if the joint is going to be seen or varnished.  Epoxy adhesives might be better. You know of course that you HAVE to post pictures of your build ...WE want to learn too :-))
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invasion

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 12:39:31 pm »

yes it is all wood kit..but it will be display only it wont be getting wet! I will have a look in DIY shop for some wood glue something like Eo Stick PVA ?? and I will post pictures along the way good or bad lol !
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barriew

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 01:36:19 pm »

Ordinary PVA will be fine, but if you can find some aliphatic glue (I think that is what Titebond is) it tends to grab a bit quicker than ordinary pva - its usually yellow. A DIY shop may have this, otherwise use pva. I am afraid that Billings instructions are not very helpful as you say, but if you get stuck post on here.

Barrie
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dougal99

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 01:57:11 pm »

Hi Invasion

Welcome to the forum.

Not built this boat, but to ensure you get the frames in the right order try dry fitting them to the keel in the indicated positions and then use a hull plank strip to check the run. Any undue dips or rises between frames will indicate if they need swapping about.

HTH

Good luck

Doug
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invasion

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 02:00:46 pm »

Barriew:
Thanks for that  ok2 instructions are so bad and I just cant believe they haven't printed numbers on the parts or is this the normal for boat kits ?

Dougal99:
 Thanks for the tip on using a plank strip I will give it a go! after this kit I think I will try a different make with better instructions  any suggestions??
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dougal99

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 02:29:22 pm »

Depends on what you want but Model Slipway do a mean instruction book. Take a look at their website

http://www.modelslipway.com/complete1.shtml

Cheers

Doug
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wideawake

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 02:40:24 pm »

Barriew:
Thanks for that  ok2 instructions are so bad and I just cant believe they haven't printed numbers on the parts or is this the normal for boat kits ?

Dougal99:
 Thanks for the tip on using a plank strip I will give it a go! after this kit I think I will try a different make with better instructions  any suggestions??

I've not built this kit but have two other Billings kits and therefore great sympathy for your views on the instructions.   You should see the ones for kits labelled suitable for "more advanced modellers"!!

However looking at the instruction manualpage 32 (.pdf available on line) I see that, in the same way as the kits I have, the parts are numbered on the diagrams of the sheets of pre-cut parts.   Personally I use these sheets to identify the parts and mark them in pencil before removing them from the sheets.  If Dougal99's suggestion doesn't give you confidence that you're right then I'd suggest fitting the frames back into the holes in the sheet and matching them against the diagram or if the scrap sheet material is no longer in one piece, making a copy of the diagram at full size and matching the frames to that.

HTH

Guy
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Seaspray

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 03:55:59 pm »

Hi invasion

Welcome to the forum, lots of help / experience here when needed    :-))

There is never such a thing as a silly question asked on here.

There are charts about on what glues to use on various materials.  http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html 

See the chart link just above the model house and plane
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JB

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 09:21:48 pm »

I built the Norden a couple of years ago, i used Aliphatic resin glue which does grab quicker than ordinary PVA so is a good choice IMO. Yes the instructions could be better but there you go!!!. To be honest i can't remember much about my build (festive 'spirit' isn't helping at the minuite %%) but i'll post my experience of the kit if you get stuck, i have some pics and still have the box and instuctions somewhere.. i think %) Don't know how to post pics but i'll try.

 
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JB

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 10:13:52 pm »

Well the pic worked much to my surprise!

On your question about the frames, here's a pic of mine...numbered... :embarrassed:

Just realised it's 3 1/2 years since i built the Norden, no wonder it's all a bit fuzzy!

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OMK

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 12:32:41 am »

I had a stab at building the Norden a few years ago. Unfortunately, I'm more of cabin cruiser fan, and ended up biting off more than I could chew. I also hit the idea that I shoud scale it up -- by which time I was getting waaaay out of my depth.
Unto this day I'm still not entirely sure what became of it.
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barryfoote

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2008, 09:36:12 am »

Hi PMK,

So that's what I missed out on......Looks great....You really should have finished it you know!!

Barry
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invasion

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 01:22:49 pm »

Barriew:
Thanks for that  ok2 instructions are so bad and I just cant believe they haven't printed numbers on the parts or is this the normal for boat kits ?

Dougal99:
 Thanks for the tip on using a plank strip I will give it a go! after this kit I think I will try a different make with better instructions  any suggestions??

I've not built this kit but have two other Billings kits and therefore great sympathy for your views on the instructions.   You should see the ones for kits labelled suitable for "more advanced modellers"!!
   If Dougal99's suggestion doesn't give you confidence that you're right then I'd suggest fitting the frames back into the holes in the sheet and matching them against the diagram or if the scrap sheet material is no longer in one piece, making a copy of the diagram at full size and matching the frames to that.

HTH

Guy

Thanks Guy I fitted them back in the frames and have them all numbered up now  :-)) as for the advance kits I am glad I didn't choose one  of those first and I very nearly did  :o
FYI:   http://www.collateral.org.uk/mantua/b603.pdf




Thanks for the link for the PDF helped number them all up much appreciated
Hi invasion

Welcome to the forum, lots of help / experience here when needed    :-))

There is never such a thing as a silly question asked on here.

There are charts about on what glues to use on various materials.  http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html 

See the chart link just above the model house and plane
Bookmarked that site thanks for the warm welcome  :-)

I built the Norden a couple of years ago, i used Aliphatic resin glue which does grab quicker than ordinary PVA so is a good choice IMO. Yes the instructions could be better but there you go!!!. To be honest i can't remember much about my build (festive 'spirit' isn't helping at the minuite %%) but i'll post my experience of the kit if you get stuck, i have some pics and still have the box and instuctions somewhere.. i think %) Don't know how to post pics but i'll try.

 
Just found a shop two minutes down the road that sells Aliphatic resin glue so I am off to get some in a minute and  get this build underway  ok2

thanks for the pics etc much appreciated
I had a stab at building the Norden a few years ago. Unfortunately, I'm more of cabin cruiser fan, and ended up biting off more than I could chew. I also hit the idea that I shoud scale it up -- by which time I was getting waaaay out of my depth.
Unto this day I'm still not entirely sure what became of it.

I would of liked to have seen the up scaled version finished  :-)

Thanks again for all the help everyone...much appreciated  ok2
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invasion

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2009, 10:37:19 am »

Ok will post some pictures later but could really do on some tips on planking and pining as I cant get the pins to hold it ?? was wondering if I should use some super glue for planking or is this wrong? I am using Aliphatic glue at the moment.
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andyn

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2009, 10:57:40 am »

Does anyone have the plans for this boat? I would quite like to build something simalar based on this hull.

Would like to enlarge it to around 34 inches

If anyone has the plane I am willing to pay for it / borrow it to enlarge it.

Actually does anyone make a 34 inch glassfibre hull for this type of hull shape?

Andy :-))
 
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Seaspray

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 11:47:54 am »

If you have a look in the Master Build Section on the home page. There are planking "how tos" there. Try The Tug Cervia Hull Build  for starters. There are others there, which would be of interest to.

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JB

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 08:43:22 pm »

Ok will post some pictures later but could really do on some tips on planking and pining as I cant get the pins to hold it ?? was wondering if I should use some super glue for planking or is this wrong? I am using Aliphatic glue at the moment.


i would not use superglue for planking, 'stick' with the aliphatic...sorry :}

I will try to explain the method i used, the planks will not bend enough without breaking or are difficult to hold in place with pins so i soaked them in hot water for a while, i taped the bow ends around a tin can and left them to dry, the stern ends might not need a soak, don't forget to chamfer the frames so the plank sits on them nicely, i used medium sandpaper, looking at my kit part 12 is fitted first..(i think..these instructions are as clear as mud  {:-{) mark a line near the center on part 12 for reference, offer up the first plank and mark this to match, you now need to chamfer the plank to butt up against part 12, i have a small 'David' plane for this, you could use sandpaper, instead of pining through the planks hold them in place by pining just under them, they will split easily especially at the bow, you should find by soaking the planks they are much easier to hold in place while the glue dries.

I'll try find some more pics of the hull..for inspiration..keep at it :-))

   
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Seaspray

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 08:36:25 am »

I use to use the old kettle to shape wood (steam them) to the correst shape but there all automatic these days ,so thats out the window.

As jab says make sure they are completely dry before you use them so you know the shape you have made. Correct if necessary. There are pics on the Cervia build that complement the write up, which I find helpful.

Keep boating
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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2009, 11:06:27 am »

As Seaspray says, have a look at Johns Cervia build its very good.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7947.0
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wideawake

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2009, 03:23:36 pm »

I use to use the old kettle to shape wood (steam them) to the correst shape but there all automatic these days ,so thats out the window.


?????????????????  :-)

Only if you mean these modern electric gadgets!!   A proper kettle on the hob works fine.   Even (most) electric ones can be forced into submission by gaffer taping the on off lever or button in the on position!   Not that I'm suggesting such a trick of course   ;)

Cheers

Guy
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Seaspray

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Re: First ever boat kit your help much appreciated
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2009, 06:12:35 pm »

Save yourself the price of a new kettle. Use a pan, one you can unscrew the lid handle off.

You'll be left with a nice little hole which creates a little jet of steam for shaping. Coming out of the top of the pot.  ok2  ok2  ok2

Seaspray
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