Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[andrewh]

This is the briefest of how-tos, offered mainly because I have just discovered (the hard way) how to remove the keyless chuck from battery drills (and probably mains drills as well)

Scene - I had a boxfull of battery drills (12 to 18V)  given to me by various people and wanted to salvage the motors and speed controllers for possible use in boats.  They are too big and powerful for use as sheeting winches, but all come with 2-stage reduction gearboxes.

Open chuck up as far as possible - as if you were about to fit a 1/2 inch drill - and peer into the chuck 
There is a left-hand thread crosspoint screw which screws into the nose of the gearbox shaft - remove it
The chuck now unscrews in a normal right-handed thread from the nose of the drill
(if it is reluctant do what works with a keyed chuck - fit into the chuck something strong with a rightangled bend - an allen key is ideal - support the drill body and smack the allen key with a hammer in the unscrewing direction)
Remove all the screws holding the drill body together - crosshead - about 8 or 9 of them
Seperate the body halves - the "works" will lift out complete

Pictures can follow if anyone would be helped

The "Works" are:
 a motor*  - about 650 or 700 size - wound for long life at the drill voltage - with silly internal fan
Speed controller - built into the trigger mechanism - we can operate this with a servo if we are poor or Scottish
The Speed controller has a wander lead with a cast heatsink and a power semiconductor fitted to it (??FET) - I have never felt one get warm at all.

When I get a minute I will eviscerate the mechanism and see what is in there - I would be amazed if there was not a linear pot worked by the trigger, and a small processor which tells the FET what chopping to do.

andrew

I can't pass on without mentioning the "rubbish" fan-cooled motors that were much discussed (and reviled) in Mayhem.  I am fairly sure that these were drill motors (with fans) from 4.8 or 6V drills, and would have been good boat motors at 3V or even 2V .  (take a bow GG who has published a plan which ran a buggy motor at 2V on a cylon cell).  I have no doubt that they are fine motors (sold originally for electric flight on 7.2V) but unfortunately used in the boating fraternity.  Fully loaded they are 30Amp+ motors

These drill motors I removed last night run beautifully at 12V, would be happy for warship propulsion at maybe 6V and I would hit them with 24V if I wanted vivid performance - might stick one in the PT boat with 3S Li-ion cells and see what happens


 
   

[Sub driver]

Do they have a gearbox attached to the motor to give a reduction ?.

I am interested, as I am on the look out for 2 reductions from a 6 -12 v motor to give a shaft speed of about 350 rpm, its the torque i am after and wondered if to purchase 2 of these battery drills / drivers to obtain the reduction gearbox's.

Regards Sub.

[andrewh]

Sub,

Indeed they do, a 2-stage epicyclic gearbox with an output speed of about 400 to 600 rpm.  This seems to be in the ballpark for what you need - a little adjustment of the input voltage would secure the revs you need. 
What are you aiming to do with them?

I'll take a photo or two tonight in case it helps.  If you were not looking for a lot of power I might suggest one of the (CHEAP) powered screwdrivers which are much smaller, but produce stonking torque. 
Enough in, point of fact, to sheet a big schooner sails in a Fleetwood gale

Purchase....   
Purchase?   
PURCHASE! 
sorry, new word to me - these cheap drills, drivers are thrown away by the thousands when the batteries die - which is very fast since there are a lot of cheap nicads in series, being fast charged by a cheap unintelligent charger!
But indeed they are not expensive in Aldi or similar

You would be welcome to any I have that are useful - do they need to be matched?
andrew

[Sub driver]

Hi Andrew,

Gt News,
They sound just what I am looking for and Yep they would need to be a matched pair if at all possible, to keep the thing going in a straight line.

I will send you a P.M. 

Regards Sub.

[barryfoote]

What a great idea....I have an 18 volt drill I was about to throw away. Think I will have a go at salvage later today....I will keep you posted..

Barry

[Pirate]

Waste not ----- want not, and all that.
Two of our boats are powered by ex drill batteries and motors. Just had to split the cells down to find the faulty one(s), ( so often the failing of a drill is just in a few cells that suddenly go, or in my case once exploded!!!) I am a handy man / gardener so have gone through many drills and much penny pinching. I have noted that some of the larger 18v drill motors are superb in any vessel esp fast elec as they are like new for they have never really reved due to the gearing down nature of the drill.
 I whole heartedly reccomend any salvage of any thing for the use in our hobby esp as money gets ever tighter. Plus it is beneficial, if not amusing to tell others how cheap boating can be and where you got that or this part.
Long live boating
Long live us boaters.

Pirate

[andrewh]

Thanks for the feedback, chaps

With 18 or 24 Volt drills there are so many cells (often dirt cheap cells) in series that one or more cells will reverse at the drop of a hat and that is basically that for that pack!  I have a friend with two dead 24V packs (20 cells each) and it would not be hard to dismantle and find the rogue cell - make one good pack out of two and use the spare (good) cells for boat propulsion!
Just think , if we pay say Euro 25 for a cheap drill, then it left its factory at about 10euro, and it contains a motor, say 10 cells, charger, electronics, plastic bits,  chuck as well as packing!

We have a wonderful business in our village (Multicell - no connection to them)  who will take a dead pack and either repair or replace all the cells with GOOD ones - often Sanyo- for a very reasonable price.



The battlefield:  Black and Decker don't attach their motors to the gearbox - there are two moulded pegs which plug into the tapped holes in the front of the motor


Speed 600 motor next to one of the drill motors - spot the differences.  So these ones are all S600 size, and all Johnston manufacture.  this one has a flux ring fitted (for efficiency) and notice its got a metal end bell.  Wonder where the Speed motors got their metal ends from?

The motor/gear with the dark blue trigger switch appears brand new - there is no corrosion anywhere and it runs like a sewing machine

Possible snagette, Sub is that the only two matching units were the 18V ones (blue switches) and one of them is gearbox-less since this was broken and it gave it the rest of its life to science.

andrew

 

[barryfoote]

A great tip....I am now the proud owner of a smashing geared motor, complete with esc. The battery pack is in order. I have taken it apart and find very useable items, including an led indicator, operated via a switch which will also come in very handy. Cheers amigo..

[Edward Pinniger]

Hope it's OK to bump a fairly old thread, but I've just recently acquired an old battery drill (battery pack non-working) with a similar gearbox setup on the motor - and I'm wondering if the motor/gearbox would be suitable for use in a paddle steamer model? Or would the "gearing down" still not be sufficiently high?  The model (a Victorian passenger steamer) is a bit under 1m long, and 1/48 scale.

Also on the subject of drill components, is there any way to set up drill speed controllers for forward and reverse, or are they forwards only? (if so, only really useful for "fast electric" boats)

[stallspeed]

Forwards only. 

[malcolmfrary]

Hope it's OK to bump a fairly old thread, but I've just recently acquired an old battery drill (battery pack non-working) with a similar gearbox setup on the motor - and I'm wondering if the motor/gearbox would be suitable for use in a paddle steamer model? Or would the "gearing down" still not be sufficiently high?  The model (a Victorian passenger steamer) is a bit under 1m long, and 1/48 scale.

Also on the subject of drill components, is there any way to set up drill speed controllers for forward and reverse, or are they forwards only? (if so, only really useful for "fast electric" boats)

Even if forwards only, if it is worked by a servo, it should be possible to incorporate a reversing switch between the controller and motor.  On the other hand, for the price, a proper ESC might be economical.  Certainly simpler.

[Circlip]

Is the reversing switch part of the trigger or one that is coupled to the gearbox??

  Regards  Ian.

[andrewh]

Most of the drill "controllers" I have seen have a reversing switch incorporated or near the speed controller, so if one has a spare channel the reversing switch could be worked by a servo

As an alternative a servo and two microswitches will Always reverse either a DC motor or a brushless motor.

Edward,  trying a little calculation:
Say you are looking for about 1 rev/sec at the paddle shaft (50RPM).  This is a speed most variable speed drills will run at, but it is about the minimum.
The 2 speed ones I have have ranges of approx "up to 600PRM" and "up to 2500RPM" so assuming the unloaded speed of the motor is around 10,000 RPM, the gear ratio in high is approx 1:4 and (amazingly) 1:16 in low (Engineers would ALWAYS use the same parts twice if given the opportunity)

So the overall answer is No, not really - but if you could manage approx 1:4 reduction to the paddle shaft gears/belt/rubberband/worm then the drill would be working in a reasonably comfortable range.  Remember these motors have efficiency only if spun at good speeds.
andrew

[Edward Pinniger]

OK, looks like I'll have to keep looking for a suitable paddler motor! I suspect the geared drill motor will eventually come in handy for a sail winch.

[tobyker]

I had a Blackspur screwdriver bought for at least £3 which was powered by 4 off AA batteries. It says 180 rpm on the box so the engine and epicyclic gear box are now in the Veron Titan tug in its fourth re- incarnation - now as a paddle steamer with an M-tronics 15 ESC and small 6v SLA battery. If it works I'll bin the whistling ESC and get a proper one from you know who.