Topic: Can anybody ID a Vintage Steam Engine? (Read 10907 times)

kiwimodeller · « **on:** July 13, 2009, 10:33:42 am »

Greetings all, I picked up at the weekend what appears to be an old Straight Runner boat with an engine but no boiler. The engine is cast alloy and similar in shape to a Stuart Sun or Sirius. It has a flywheel on the front of the crank and a set of bevel gears on the rear just ahead of the coupling. The gears drive a shaft up the back of the engine which has a disc with a pin on the top. The pin engages a slot and moves a slide valve mounted on the top of the engine. The bore is .700" and the stroke .650" and it is twin cylinder, single acting. I would say it was probably made from a set of castings as there are scribed marks on the underside of the valve body and some of the workmanship looks a little amateur but I am fairly sure the castings would have been professionally made. Hope fully some pictures will follow this. Cheers, Ian.

bogstandard · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:15:24 am »

I don't think it is the Sirius, that had the flywheel on the gear/cam arrangement end

http://www.stationroadsteam.com/Stuart/sirius.htm

Here is also a little info on the sun engine, it looks like bore and stroke don't match.

http://www.stationroadsteam.com/Stuart/sun.htm

Check it out against the 1B, that looks almost spot on to what you have shown.

http://www.stationroadsteam.com/Stuart/1B.htm

If you want to check out others, then here

http://www.stationroadsteam.com/stuart%20turner.htm

Bogs

gondolier88 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:14:06 pm »

Hi,

:oLooks like a Sun with a modified valve head to me.

Greg

andrewh · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:02:43 pm »

My strong top-of-the head thought is that it is an acetylene motor - running on the pressure, not burning of acetlyene.

There was therefore no boiler - just a light gas generator which was filled with a mix of carbide and Dry ice. Hopeless for flight, but might work in a boat if that is what it is

As soon as I stop thinking about it I will remember the name, and will then be able to Google it

andrew

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2009, 10:53:45 am »

Certainly the Stuart 1B looks the closest suggestion so far although the one in the picture seems to have a copper or brass shroud around it. I had thought that all old Stuart engines were cast iron whereas mine is aluminium castings, perhaps somebody knows if Stuart made alloy casting kits? Thanks, Ian.

gondolier88 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2009, 12:52:49 pm »

Hi,

My guess is;

A skilled engineer in the 30's, let's call him Bob, interested in model hydroplanes, saw one of the stuart turner engines in one of his contemporaries boats- this man was a big-head and was very proud of his acquisition and machining skills- it being 'the best on the market' and such (i'm sure we all know one!).

Our Bob politely agreed and looked into getting one for himself- on receipt of the castings he was very disappointed to find that the castings were in fact CI not Ali', after all, he wanted the edge on his freind with the 'best one'.

So, using the original castings as patterns he cast his own castings in alloy, however, due to shrinkage and not having a sophisticated enough casting set, he couldn't cast the valve-head- no matter what he did he would cock it up every time.

'Sod this!' sais Bob, i'll make one to my own pattern- he re-cast the crank-case with bearing houses for a vertical layshaft and fabricated his own valve-head using MS.

When, on taking it down to the pond for the first time, he showed his freind, he asked Bob where he purchased such an interesting engine?

"Oh this" said Bob "I made it myself, Aluminium you know, better than anything on the market."

Then proceeded to trounce said freind in a round the pole race- leaving him wondering why the advert said his engine was the best!

Thats what I think anyway!

Greg

bogstandard · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2009, 01:05:26 pm »

Ian,

As Greg has said.

It might just be someone's rip off efforts to get himself an engine.

If yours is ali, then think about when it would have been made. Up to and during the war years, ali was in short supply, so maybe someone in the late 40's or early 50's, when it became abundant again, came across a set of castings they could copy. Ali being much easier to cast than CI for the amateur. Of course, they would have removed all traces of the Stuart logo either in the mould or after casting.

That is just one scenario, it could just have been a straight rip off copy made by some unscrupulous manufacturer on the other side of the world.

But the 1B looks to be the original source of the design.

Bogs

malcolmbeak · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2009, 07:45:23 pm »

Ian
I'm pretty certain that it is a Stuart MTB1. The photo shows my version, but it is fitted with a piston valve from a sun engine. Yours looks to have the correct slide valve - have you had a look yet?
Malcolm

malcolmbeak · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2009, 07:53:38 pm »

Woops - hadn't realised it was ally. But never mind I'm pretty certain that it is a Stuart engine and I know who has got one, but may take me some time to contact him.
More information Ian - what is the bore and stroke. If steamboatphil sees this he will probably know the answer.
Malcolm

Steamer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2009, 06:31:43 am »

Raymond Yates published a book on Model Making that had that engine or its twin brother in it. I would agree with the premis that it is a rip off of the Sirus, but it does look like the drawings in the Yates book..

Dave

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:48:30 am »

Malcolm, the bore is .700" and the stroke .650" It does have what looks like brass liners in the bore so could have been sleeved or could have been just not bored right out to .750. I have just taken the sump off and the crank looks like a built up item so it may be a copy as others have suggested although I did see a reference to one engine which came with a piston valve on top for Flash Steam or alternatively a slide valve for use with a regular boiler. If your friend knows more then that would be great but even if I never find out for sure I will still get it and the boat going. Who knows we might even ressurect Straight Running in N Z and I could have a championship winner!

malcolmbeak · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2009, 01:30:15 pm »

Ian
Best if I read what's been written before putting finger to button!
I think the others are probably right, but it's not a copy of the Sirrius or Sun as they have the mounting lugs on the base wheras on yours they are about at the crankshaft centreline - much like the MTB series of engines. So maybe it has been copied from one of those.
Malcolm

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:01:39 am »

Thanks for that. It has been a while since I have seen a Sirius or a Sun but I am sure this is smaller. Apart from the fact that it is alloy and has the slide valve it looks very much like your MTB1 so as has been suggested it is probably a copy. It needs a new rod to move the valve as the centre section of thread to adjust the valve position has stripped but other than that I think it will run. Now I just have to figure out what the thread is a find a die that small. Cheers, Ian.

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:07:06 pm »

Greetings, I am pleased to be able to report that the engine has been repaired and runs well on air. Now for some steam. The boiler is no problem but I would like to use the original type of burner. The gent I got it from remembers having to pump up pressure before lighting it but does not remember if it was petrol or parrafin fueled. Can anybody tell me the pros and cons of each and suggest a source of plans for the old type of burner? Is the something like the old pressure blow lamp my Dad used to use to burn paint off a starting point? Thanks, Ian
p.s. Have attached a picture of the boat I hope.

gondolier88 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2009, 06:35:25 pm »

One way is to addapt commercially available and cheap alchohol burners for camping stoves- the non pressurized type is much safer- just solder a feed pipe from a tank mounted remotely- put a couple inline if they aren't big enough.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/images/product/main/SPIRIT-BURNER.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr2183.html&usg=__Aea0QjBMY_7n6_f5Nf544L16YlI=&h=300&w=500&sz=30&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=7V2PvIIrOY3YRM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalcohol%2Bburner%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1W1DKUK_en%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1

Greg

Circlip · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:02:17 pm »

If the boiler is the centre flue type Kiwi, the chances are that the burner was a roarer, yes, basically a blowlamp. It was normally heated whilst outside the boat and once burning correctly, fed into the boiler space. You could probably convert a modern blowlamp (Gas type).

Regards Ian.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:42:43 pm »

Hi Ian
Petrol blowlamps are easier to make, as paraffin needs a lot more heat to start it going and is a little dirty. You would use a trusty cycle pump to pressure the lamp. I can send details if you would like (sorry I haven't answered you last e-mail--on case now) These are the types of lamps I use in my straight runners (start SR up over there and I might have to visit) And they will work with both centre flue and scott (semi flash) type boilers.
Gas is a cleaner option, although you tend not to get the "roaring" heat you get with petrol, and the tank and pipes might start to freeze because of the gas discharge (and the gas costs more than petrol--well over here anyway)

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:15:37 am »

Phil, you are welcome to visit any time and show us how to set up a S R course. Late October would be good as we go to a sailing weekend in a pond that was supposedly built in a park just for that purpose. It is rectangular shape and has nice concrete edging around it. If I can get this old dear going in time I will take her along and see how much interest we can stir up. Sorry but I cannot see much in the photo of your burner on this thread, it would be great if you could email me a picture and perhaps some dimensions. I have got gas burners of the Roarer type that would do the job for now but I would like to make something at least semi authentic. A friend offered today to drop over a couple of different sized Primus blowlamps so they might be a starting point but I need somebody to explain why they coiled the pipe around the burner to vaporise the fuel, was this instead of using a pressure pump or in addition to? thanks, Ian.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:21:36 pm »

I will do a description for you, with a couple of pics (bit later today---)

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2009, 10:25:33 am »

Spotted another similar one on Ebay recently, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280401278948&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT but did not have deep enough pockets to buy it. It was similar in many ways but different in some including the valve operating linkage. It also looks to be piston valve. If it was the same make then there must have been castings available but again there were no makers marks on it. Oh well, the mystery deepens!

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #20 on:** October 19, 2009, 11:03:54 am »

I have now acquired a "roarer" type burner. It is a cylindrical cannister with a bicycle type valve in the top and a filler plug which also has a valve with a needle down the centre in the middle of the filler. It has Primus written across the burner assembly but the rest appears home made. I got it going with White Spirit and it put out a great flame, hot enough that the burner surround was glowing red hot within a couple of minutes. I presume one opens the air valve to let out pressure when one wants to stop it? I thought it might be a good idea if I am to use it to put a stop cock in the pipe from the top of the tank to the burner to allow the flow of fuel to be regulated. I was surprised at how well it went but it is a worry that fuel started flowing as soon as I started to pump up the pressure and also that the only way to stop it was to open the valve and wait for the pressure to drop. The boat is almost repaired and to run it I probably will stick to the camping gas cylinder and burner but it would be interesting to have the original type of setup in working order. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks, Ian.

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Author Topic: Can anybody ID a Vintage Steam Engine? (Read 10907 times)

bogstandard

bogstandard

malcolmbeak

malcolmbeak

Steamer

malcolmbeak