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Author Topic: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions  (Read 7428 times)

Edward Pinniger

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Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« on: March 25, 2010, 04:22:04 pm »

I've recently acquired a second-hand, part built "Inga IV" sailing ketch - an old German (Schuco/Wedico) design now produced by Kingston Mouldings. (You can see a really nice built example here on the SRMBC site.) It's quite a large model (1090mm/43") and also quite wide with a beam of 11".

I've been thinking of building a larger sailing model for a while (having got the RC sailing bug via a RTR "Sea Lite") and this looked like a much nicer subject than most of the commercial kits currently available (other than the very pricey Atlantis + Valdivia, and the Metcalf Moonbeam - which, whilst very nice, is a bit too advanced for my current skill level, with the need to make a 100% watertight hull/deck join, sew the sails, make a keel weight, etc.)

The model I bought has the deck installed along with structural supports for the radio gear inside, a rudder + arm installed along with auxiliary motor + prop shaft, and also the basic structure of the cabins. No masts or fittings were included, or any components other than the motor - but it was still quite a bargain at £30 inc. postage. The hull/deck join and woodwork are all in good condition, and it looks like not much more work will be needed to get it sailing than with a commercial plastic hull from Graupner or similar.

However, though I've some very basic knowledge of how to set up the radio gear, sails and rigging of a sailing model (dismantling + rebuilding the Sea Lite helped with this), I'm still very new to this area of R/C and have no experience at all with large, multi-masted models. So there are quite a few areas I'm looking for advice with.

- Would it be possible to operate all 3 sails (including the mizzen sail) from one servo? If so, how would this be set up? If multiple servos are needed, could they be operated on the same channel, or would a 3+ channel radio be needed?

- What servo(s) would you recommend for the sails? I assume something fairly large + powerful would be needed. I'd prefer to use a servo, rather than a
winch, if possible.

- The model is designed for auxiliary motor propulsion (and mine has a motor + prop shaft already installed). Is this worth bothering with, given the additional cost of an ESC and extra radio channel? I don't have any objection to motor power in principle (most of my models are powered rather than sail) but from my (limited) experience, it seems like large, Bermuda-rigged models can be manouevered easily in all but the calmest conditions under sail power alone.

- The hull is internally ballasted, with no bulb/fin keel (mine doesn't have any ballast installed). I assume ballast weight + distribution is fairly critical in a sailing model this large without a keel - although the mast isn't as high, relative to the hull size, as on more modern designs, and the wide hull should also help with stability. What would be the best material + method for installing the ballast? Bagged lead shot?

- Finally, would reasonable quality pine dowel be a suitable material for the masts + spars? I'd rather not use aluminium masts if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've already contacted Kingston Mouldings about the possibility of buying the plans separately.

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nemesis

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 05:24:49 pm »

Hi, You have picked up a bargain at that price, we have a couple of the Ketches in our club. your ballast wt is about 15lb, we control all the sails with a lever arm winch (Large Hitec one) running on 6v. yes the motor is at times a godsend as they dont come about like a yacht. We did not use wood masts, we used slotty ally tube from the yacht people & the sails from a local maker, in my opinion it is a waste of an ESC when you can use a couple of micro switches to do the job.   Nemesis
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DickyD

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 05:35:41 pm »

An excellent choice Edward. I know nothing about ships with sails but this one looks very impressive on the water. :-))
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Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

Islander1951

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 06:01:00 pm »

A Hitec 815BB sailarm  servo will be more than adequate for your sails, and yes, good quality dowel should be fine for the masts, so long as you can find some straight  ones.   :}

       Edward.
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tigertiger

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 11:41:57 pm »

You got an excellent bargain.
Lucky beggar. :}

The rigging materials you can get all of them from Sails etc.
You can also substitute most of this from the fishing tackle shop.
You need about 60kg braided line for shrouds and 25kg braided line for running rigging. Dacron dyes well with shoe polish for the black and brown colours of rope.

For sail material you may want to consider using synthetic material that you just cut out. This is what was supplied with my Mary J Ward kit, and I also made additional sails from bought additional Dacron material for this purpose. You can see what it looks like on the Mary J Ward Build thread http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2716.0 , you can sew sails, but it is a lot of extra work.

I also second what Islander said about the Hitec HS815BB sail arm servo. Big (only a bit bigger than a standard servo), very powerful (about 25kg/cm torque), and cheap (about £30). You can operate all 3 sails with this. I operate four sails with mine.

You will need 3 channels. You won't need an ESC, just a micro switch. The motor can then just be turned on and off to help her turn her nose through the wind, or to bring her back if becalmed.

Dowels could be used, but the problem will be finding striaght dowels. People have used fishing rod sections, and also some people have used carbon fibre kite spars from kite suppliers. Another possible source is to cut up archery arrows.

Lead shot in bags works for ballast. Try to keep as much as you can to the middle of the boat and she will turn faster. Cut lead sheet also works and may give better density.
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roycv

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 03:48:53 pm »

Hi Edward, I re-fitted an Inga IV 2 years ago and I sail her whenever I can. Current Hitec sail winches will cope easily.  I have a motor fitted driving a coarse 3 blade prop.  This gives less resistance when sailing.  May I suggest a low power 540 or 550 running on 3 volts or just 2 cells.  This will give enough power to move the yacht i.e 4 -6 watts.  I attach a piccy taken during the re-fit with the stanchions taken out etc.
good luck with your one, happy to help if you get stuck.
regards to all, Roy

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Edward Pinniger

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Re: Ketch "Inga IV" sails/radio gear/ballast etc. questions
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 08:24:01 pm »

Thanks to all for the advice + information! I'll make a note of the components + materials recommended. When I start the project (hopefully this year) I'll probably have more questions on rigging and control setup.
I also got a reply from Kingston Mouldings - they sell the Inga IV plans seperately for £15 inc. postage, so I'll definitely order a set. Though I'm probably going to make some modifications to the cabin shape and possibly some of the deck fittings, the original plans will be very useful in getting the mast/spar dimensions and rigging layout right.

I bought some synthetic sail cloth (Dacron I think) on eBay to make replacement sails for the Sea Lite, I bought the minimum quantity of 1 square metre, as the Sea Lite sails used less than a fifth of this, there should be plenty left over for Inga IV. I used a sharp modelling knife + scissors to cut out the sails and a small leather punch to cut out the holes for the rigging.
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