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Author Topic: A Beginners Guide to Steam  (Read 57515 times)

hammer

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2014, 09:13:45 PM »

Good it wasn't that difficult after all.
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AlexC

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2014, 09:28:02 PM »

I think the three bar litre rule applies to both the boiler pressure test and the steam test so no actual issues in sailing on a public pond.
 
Albeit wise to check the safety valve works regularly for obvious reasons
 
G

Since 1st Jan 2013 the 3 bar/litre rule no longer applies.
Prior to that date any boiler of 3bar/litre or less was exempt from any testing.
 
The new rules state that for boilers under 3 bar/litres it must be Hydraulically tested to 2 x max working pressure and then, after all fitting are added it should be Hyraulically tested to 1.5 x max working pressure... providing it has passed these tests then the hydraulic test lasts for the life of the boiler.
It therefore will not need this test done again, unless the boiler needs to be repaired... at which time it is treated as a new boiler and will need both Hydraulic test repeating.
 
The second part of the test process is the steam accumulation test... this is only valid for 1 year and must be successfully retested in order to remain legal.

Your boiler will only need to pass this steam test.

I attach a copy of the current test code.
Section 14 covers small boiler under 3 bar/litres... section 14.6 covers the steam test.
 
There are 2 engineering clubs near you: -
 
Hoddesdon model railway club.
 
Chingford and District model engineering club.
 
Both have steam enthusiasts and run live steam railways so either should have a boiler inspector/tester.
 
 
I hope this helps.
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC :-))
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Geoff

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #152 on: October 02, 2014, 01:51:55 PM »

Thank you for clarifying the rules and I am quite prepared to concede I am wrong in the 3 bar litre rule.
 
I do however have some questions having just read the "code" as it seems both narrow and contradictory in places.
 
It appears to me this applies to all clubs and societies. Seriously I'm not looking to "nit pick" just trying to get a better understanding of how this all works in practice as in the code;
 
1) Section 1.2 says the PSSR does not normally apply to persons operating pressure equipment as a hobby activity. However the HSS considers it good practice etc...
 
2) This goes on to say the document has been prepared after consultation with various engineering societies and provides a list
 
3) The purpose, section 2.1 further lists the various societies this applies to which under section 14 includes all boilers irrespective of size so this brings in the 3 bar litre threshold.
 
4) However this guide appears to be for the use of various societies and whilst expressions such as good practice are referenced this would appear to be different from the law of the land. It also says in 1.2 "as if they were duty holders" Again this distinction is very different from saying this is a legal requirement.
 
5) Section 1.4 references the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 but this applies to work place practice
 
Irrespective of what is good practice and wise etc the code appears to apply to all model engineering societies and clubs etc but what about Joe public.
 
If Joe public is sailing a steam powered vessel on a public lake then none of these rules would appear to apply legally as he is not a member of a club/engineering society etc. and he is not at work.
 
So Joe public can do what he wants? Is this a correct interpretation?
 
Just trying to flush this all out.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 
 
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AlexC

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #153 on: October 02, 2014, 04:53:11 PM »

 
Section 1.4 references the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 but this applies to work place practice
 
Irrespective of what is good practice and wise etc the code appears to apply to all model engineering societies and clubs etc but what about Joe public.
 
If Joe public is sailing a steam powered vessel on a public lake then none of these rules would appear to apply legally as he is not a member of a club/engineering society etc. and he is not at work.
 
So Joe public can do what he wants? Is this a correct interpretation?
 
Just trying to flush this all out.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff

Hi Geoff,
 
In a nutshell... NO... Joe public cannot do just what he likes.
 
The Health and Safety at work act extends well beyond factories and offices etc.
 
A public park or privately owned lake complex is also a workplace for some people... Park-keepers, Groundsmen, lake banks and bridge workers etc... so HSE applies.
 
Most public lakes and parks are owned and maintained by Local Councils and they apply local bye-law rules... privately owned lakes are subject to the owners rules of use.
 
For people using any lake facilities for the purpose of sailing model boats the owner/council generally require the user to have adequate third party insurance to protect the owner/council from litigation in the event of an accident.
Where model steam is concerned such insurance will require the production of a valid boiler test certificate before cover will be given... this means passing a boiler pressure and steam test.
 
The code presented, whilst not the Law of the Land (per se), is a hard fought for and agreed subset of the PSSR regulations, which are LAW, specifically obtained for model steam boilers.
 
Before this code became agreed, we had to pass the PSSR regulations tests and they are much more complex, and very much more expensive.
 
It is actually and offence (in the UK) to operate a model boiler in a 'Public place' without a valid pressure and steam test certificate and valid adequate public third party liability insurance.
(Note, this does not include the likes of 'MAMOD' type items, since these are classified as steam toys and are covered by separate legislation... however, some local council bye-laws even prohibit these).
 
To protect what little we have left of the freedom to persue this hobby, it makes sense to follow the guidelines and procedures stated in the code... or we could end up loosing the facilities forever.
Even if not a club member it is still reasonable easy to approach a club in order to get a boiler test certificate, albeit this may involve a small fee... as a member of the club the testing is usually free and, in addition, you may benefit from being covered by the clubs insurance.
Once you have obtained the valid test certificate you can approach most reputable insurance companies for third party model cover... it is not that expensive.
On the other hand... Litigation following even a minor accident involving a member of the public can get very expensive without valid boiler test certificates and/or insurance.
 
I hope this clarifies things a bit.
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC. :-))
 
 
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Geoff

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #154 on: October 02, 2014, 05:02:20 PM »

Thank you, it does.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff :-)
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BarryM

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #155 on: October 02, 2014, 05:48:32 PM »

When calculating the boiler capacity under the 3 bar-litres rule, is this the maximum capacity of the boiler or the capacity to working level? I suspect the former but would appreciate it being confirmed.

Thanks,
Barry M
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AlexC

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #156 on: October 02, 2014, 08:35:10 PM »

Hi Barry,
 
It is the total internal capacity of the boiler in litres multiplied by the working pressure in Bars.
 
Best regards.
 
Sandy. :}
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BarryM

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #157 on: October 03, 2014, 08:27:04 AM »

Thanks Sandy,
BM
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Tomokabear

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #158 on: October 31, 2017, 02:28:36 AM »

I am gathering parts together for steam engine building.  I am having trouble locating phosphor bronze wire and phosphor bronze balls here in the USA.   Can someone provide a link to a vendor anywhere here or overseas who stock those items?
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terry horton

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #159 on: October 31, 2017, 09:40:48 AM »

Maccmodels Engineering Supplies.... UK Company


Regards
Terry H
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Tomokabear

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Re: A Beginners Guide to Steam
« Reply #160 on: October 31, 2017, 04:08:20 PM »

Thanks Terry, 
I will check them out! 

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