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Author Topic: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion  (Read 17545 times)

Prophet

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Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« on: July 24, 2010, 11:49:52 pm »

I Though. since i see so many build taking place on the site i would add my own.

The Fairey Huntsman is quite a popular boat to build i have seen one post of a build on here from a scratch build and one from the precident kit using the GRP hull and IC engine.

Back in April my better half brought me a new boat kit more as a suprise rather then me pointing it out to her.. which is the Fairey Huntsman 31 all ply contruction no GPR hull.

After much thought and a bit of searching on the net i decided that a double cabin huntsman is not really a nice show boat and seeing how your unable to buy a huntsman 28 kit i though i would convert the current kit and construct a new cabin section for the 28 keeping the 31 cabin section for a later build.

so anyway heres my build so far i will update when i do more i have only a limited monthly budget after bills (we all know that feeling)


Back In April kit arrives in post.



Unpack kit check parts list and all parts lucky no parts broken must have been a good post man  {-)


Missed a few photos of cutting the lazer cut parts and making new templated (just incase) and this is the current image of the hull construction



Construction of the bow, should have been constructed out of a solid balsa block however you can never get both sides the same so using a card template i created a new curved bow section and fiberglassed and fitted them to the bow giving me a perfect bow thats identical each side



Now bow is in place i have started to GRP the hull not only for strength but also (i hope) a perfect finished paint job





And this is as far as i have come since i have had a total senior moment and forgot to order more fiberglass to finish the hull this has kinda "xxxxx" me up slightly as now the next layer of glass will be a mechanical bond rather then a chemical   

I will Update once i have more done.

But for future reference this huntsman will be duel prop and rudder using electric motors TBD ..




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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 10:16:49 pm »

Ok today i started to do some more to the huntsman, unfortunalty still waiting for the fiberglass and resin to arrive so thats delayed the hull for now no biggy other things to do ....

planning is critical at this point....

Now my plan is to build this huntsman as close to the original as possible meaning i have to relocate the rudders to a section in the kit that once the deck is glued down becomes totaly inacessable so todays task was to cut a gap in the deck at the rear to allow access to the rudders for repairs maintinace etc etc




How ever after a quick spot i realised that the deck at the rear will not be flat it will be slightly curved .. insead of modding the bulkheads and the transom i decided that i would use maple strips to reinforce the cut section and ever 1/8 " cut a grove in the maple this will allow the deck to curve with the bulkheads keeping the shape correct to the rest of the boat ( i hope)

Pics to follow....





keep watch more to come its past 10 bed time for me
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 10:32:04 pm »

Nice work so far I must say, but the fibre glass thing I'm not sure about, you really don't need it, Im still running my late father's boat which is now 50 years old (taplin twin-relaced in 1975 by a 5cc glow) and my grandfathers boat (built 1938---steam powered ) and they are both going strong as are all the other boats my family and myself have.  built over the last (well lots of years) so build well in wood and you don't need GRP.
Getting a good paint finish from wood is easier than all the prerp work with GRP----but then i'm biased............
Keep going though---just my humble thoughts

 :-)) :-))
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 11:05:25 pm »

Thanks for you kind comments,

reason to grp the hull was to

A) build up the bow end rather then sculpt the balsa
B) increase the strength of the overall hull
C) will give the hull a better finish during painting
D) personal preference i like working with grp its easier to clean and helps with the aid of not letting the wood start to rot over time ( kits tend to use low quality ply cheapest they can get there hands on i assume so this will give me better confidence in my work as well as the boat)

but please keep the comments & suggestion coming its all welcome

Prophet

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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 12:36:01 am »

OK back to the build after spending past 30 Min's figuring out whats wrong with the wireless .. damn BT sucks..... NOTE TO SELF CHANGE BROADBAND SUPPLIER.....

Last night i left off with just finishing the hatch coming on the transom for the rudder access. today i have finished the hatch..

Drilled 4, 3mm holes through the ledges and the deck panel, under side i sliced a circular grove to accept a washer and a nut stuck with superglue (The washer is to aid in sealing the hatch watertight screwing hatch tight, until i add the planking to which i will seal with black silicon.

Hatch underside



Hatch open top side



Hatch Closed with perfect .05 mm gap around the edge (using 0.5mm template card to achieve the perfect line)




Next up another senior moment don't ask they happen a lot recently along with all the grey hair... blaming the kids and the wife for that one...
anyhow lucky i did run out of resin a short while ago as i forgot to put the planing chines on however it was kinda lucky i built the front up so I'm going to claim it was all a perfect executed plan  :embarrassed:

Stuck the first set of chines on using exterior quick dry (1hour) wood glue, clamped ,there walnut 1/4" x 1/8" shaped to a curve from the rear to the bow turning into a curved point and laying flat to the bow
 both sides are done.
Looking at the instruction and comparing to the photo collection i have led me to ignore the instruction totally on the position and the shape, they are supposed to curve into waterline however looking at the original boat they don't do that yet another they do so I'm assuming that its pendant on the version of the huntsman or swordsman its all confusing. however i decided that i would fit the next section tomorrow after sleeping on what to do with it ( i am however thinking that i will align the chines spaced which will proably give me best planing ability)

waterline chines fitted and shaped





Alright past midnight tonight beds calling next update in a day or so

Prophet






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Perkasaman2

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 12:57:53 am »

Hi Prophet, have you thought about improving the bow's shape......... a bit more pointy/ closer to the original's shape?  :-)
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 01:18:11 am »

Yes I'm intending to point the bow the gpr bow at the moment was shaped to extend the bow out a further 1/2" the original kit is an awful curve done with some punks coffee mug..

Its not quite noticeable at the moment due to the ply deck being over size and all photos right now are belly up, once it has been shaped to the hull you will be able to see the curve start to turn to a point, admittedly it wont be exactly as the original boat but it will be just about there, i worked out the dimensions to create the point exactly to scale but i would have to extend the entire boat over 1.5" meaning creating a new keel and side panels and deck which would render the original kit useless and to be honest i could have extended and added inserts but i just cant be bothered all for 1.5 Inches now its only 1" out of original plan shape which from a kit it pretty good i think

I will try to post a pic of the deck top side up tomorrow (should i remember) to show the point better

Prophet
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 01:34:10 am »

Hopefully these pics will show the deck trim lines cutting 1/2" of each side as well as the start of the build up of the front end GPR bow to the point.

 Hope this helps with my previous explanation to what I'm doing.








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hmsantrim

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 04:36:44 am »

 Hi prophet.
               what are you doing for plans for the 28ft cabin they have them here at my hobbystore. I am fortunate to have two of the
             veron origionals..
           
 Fairey Huntsman MM680
price 9.95
 Designer: Vic Smeed

A 1:8 scale model of one of the best-known fast sea-going small cruisers, 42in length, 12in beam, for up to 15cc engines. Hull form is steeply V'd monohedron. Ply construction.

       Here is the thread for a veron rebuild from last year ideal for paint scheme reff..   

      http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21584.msg213462#msg213462       


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_VzprATn0M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46-YybZCxJk&feature=related


 real thing 












                         cheers Frank



    huntsman 28 and 31
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 08:43:39 am »

Thanks Frank for the reference pictures,

I have most of those ones saved as it is but i will share my paint scheme with you the following pic(S) is the huntsman 28 which is what the conversions based about..

also after much deliberation (tossing and turning and the Wife telling me to B*****R of down stairs to work it out) I have decided to follow the last picture in this sequence for the planing chines which are spaced parallel to each other rather then connecting at the tip of the bow i feel that this will improve the over all sleekness of the hulls appearance as well as aiding in a better planing ability, how ever suggestion are always welcome











Prophet

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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 09:12:27 am »

To answer the Question of the Cabin build, i dont require a plan instead im using common sence lots of photos and what makes it look good by eye to create the new side pannels.

Using the original kit cabin parts i have taken copys of them (templates) then modified the templates to go from a 31 to a 28, some of the original cabin parts from the kit are now useless but i will build the cabin top anyway and store possible for a 2nd huntsman build should i feel inclined later in life.
 Ok photos to follow showing the original side and the new template side, the rest of the cabin will be scratch built from pics and praticallity along with overall look . i have found that the huntsman plans are not very accurate for a detailed model.





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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 11:52:57 pm »

NO pictures in todays update forgot to charge my camera battery's but i will update once there really more to see

Todays plan was a trip to local garage ( luckily 30 seconds up the road from me) popped in for some Bondo AKA car body filler got a great deal he he got huge tub at wholesale price must have easily saved £10 EVERY LITTLE HELPS !

Got home and then got nagged by the wife ....

next after me ears have finished bleeding popped to the workshop for more of the build, using the bondo i have skimmed the bow and sanded smooth started with 120 wet and dry finished with 600 grit this will allow a better fit for the next load of chines on the base to the bow.

later all this will be Matt tissue and epoxied to give me the final surface to sand and paint on

Todays other task was to measure and drill out the rudder holes ( I'm using 2 large rudders to start with but i will most likely swap to 2 meds should the turning ability be way to sharp and forcefull on the water, next was the issue of working out the position of the prop exit to give me an accurate position via photos so far i am extremely happy with the positions there all square and level.

To fit the rudders i have cut 2 blocks of pine and cut the base angle to fit snugly on the angled base at the transom i have drilled a 8mm hole through the pine block giving me a square and level rudder guide at current i will most likely need to trim the top of the rudders to allow further movement past 45 degrees however i will address that issue later as i will be adding the rear ladder support at the transom which will be fabricated from 4mm ply under that section there is a support beam that goes the the end of the prop shaft exit this will be made of 2mm ply giving me 6mm of rudder extension from the hull i will work on that over the next few days its subject to change, I'm more intrested in getting the boat to look aesthetically right rather then clinically correct since models tend to run way differently then the full versions. This will be my aim over the entire build hence my reason for not following the original boat plans rather going via photos and what i feel would be appropriate something to remember through out the whole build.

next job tomorrow will be to locate the water intakes which will be doubles to cool both the motors and esc separately (personal choice) I have not been able to find where the water intakes are on the original ( i am assuming they may be part of the prop support or in the rudder) if anyone has any information or a photo of there location it would be appreciated if not i will locate behind the prop and call it a done deal.

Prophet

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hmsantrim

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 03:20:30 am »

 Hi prophet.
                 You were deliberating about the hull chines earlier on, so I have just popped a pic of whats on my veron model. Had
                  started to paint strip for a re furb buts that as far as its got. Too many irons in fire, don`t know why the boss was giving
                  ya grief for you saved a tenner but then you know the saying I am the captain of this ship "and I have my wifes permission
                  to say so"  {-) 

                                                                        cheers Frank

                 



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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 09:26:10 am »

thanks for the pics Frank . I just haven't worked out the form on the bow, wether to connect them to the water line or to leave then flat at 1.5" gaps along the curve. its once of those issues thats bugging.

I'm sure there in 2 diffrent positions for a reason . most likely the racing version are straight where are the cruisers are curved, i will address the issues shortly once i drill out the prop holes in the correct place ,since its a model location of the props and rudder are NOT exactly where they are on the original boat, they are pushed back about 1-2 inches this is more for practicality for the rudder assembly.

I have a question to ask at this point.. does anyone know the original boats prop angle?

if not i will use best guess in proportion to the rudder.

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Perkasaman2

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 10:28:26 am »

Hi Prophet, This Precedent Huntsman grp thread explores a lot of the build issues and there's some useful pics.................. :-)

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21019.0
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2010, 02:30:43 pm »

thanks Perkasaman guys working from the gpr kit there.. same instructions... which i am not working from at current as the instructions are not helping with this conversion however his hull shows the chines straight .. as i figured however my kit instruction say curve them to meet the top of the waterline... hard to tell whats right since the grp is pre-constructed and the wooded kit you DIY  {:-{ {:-{ {:-{

also the prop shaft on that model is fixed to a very strange angle as well as position i guess if an ic engine is used it would be fine however my plan so far has been to make the boat as original as i can using twin props and rudders so basically most of the hull i have had to alter to allow me to achieve this. it all helps so thanks for the link  :-))

Alright my plan today is to widen the holes for the rudders in the rudder support .... i drilled them to 6mm now to widen to 8mm and tap the wood to screw the plastic rudder sleeves in then secure with a washer and bolt.. once thats achieved i will then create the under support which is a profile of the original that does a few jobs, one is to secure the ladder to the extension ( in some version i have seen this extension is a pair either side that fold down pending on the turn to aid in turning... water brakes i guess nice feature but to fiddly to get working and kinda pointless since i will be using Actions p40 mixer to aid in steering)
it also aids in supporting the props via an extension which i will later fabricate out of brass Pic inc to the part I'm creating today. still waiting to find the prop angle from someone or somewhere its not a big deal i will proably just use it for reference but might be helpfull somewhere..

i will update later tonight with pics of whats gone on


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Perkasaman2

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 07:30:24 pm »

Hi Prophet, the longitudinal hull strakes run parallel to the keel line and terminate at the bow area in several ways. They appear to serve several functions, but their main purpose is to deflect water away  from the bow in varying, often difficult offshore sea conditions were the deeper vee of this planing design enables higher speeds. These strakes also  offer some directional stability and  roll resistance when turning. Structurally, they add some longitudinal 'batten' strength and rigidity  to support the  moulded  plywood hull. They are either upswept higher to finish individually toward the top of  the stem or they are terminated/jointed  to an intersecting   fairly arbitrary horizontal  'chine' strakes which runs conventionally at a lower level on the stem. The last or second system appears to be patterned for 'cruising' rather than racing. There's plenty of Google 'Images' to study the variations, if you type 'Fairey Huntsmen' and search.  :-) 
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hmsantrim

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2010, 03:13:25 am »

 Hi Prophet.
                Dont think your going to find the answer to the prop angle question. What I tend to do is stick the prop I am going to use
              on a shaft.  Hold the shaft against the side of the hull, angle the shaft down and look at the clearence the prop has under
              the hull.
              Consider the motor you are going to use and the rudder size and site the prop in relation to the rudder position.
              mark the bottom of the hull drill holes, file slot, pop shaft into slot check shaft angle fix into place with appropriate adhesive
              end of hair pulling session for another few weeks.   

               I am a perfectionist myself but sometimes you have to take the practical engineering approach. I had been thinking about
                the brass and chrome deck fittings possibly precission control would make them if you supplied the sketch.
                 I remember the Web model fitting used to supply the best of brass and chrome fittings but they are no more. 
                 
                                                                          cheers Frank

             
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 09:11:03 am »

Thanks Perkasman for the information on the chines. i had kinda figured it was something like that i have decided to to put them flat along the hull at 1" gaps from what i can tell this is the sea faring race setup.

in regards to the prop shaft i gave up looking for the original angle and just offered up the prop shaft to the hull putting on a 50mm prop and then angled it along the line i had drawn where it met.. i drilled the hole which happened to be 6.5" from the center of the rudder support. looks pretty good. i will have to drill through the internal support to get the shaft in correctly but i will do that later today,

this is as far as i have got i didn't get as far as i wanted to yesterday.

OK to make the rudder vertical support i used a 1" square baton of pine cut to 8 " using the pillar drill drilled to 6mm holes in the right spots to line up with the hulls holes., before fitting the pine strip i cut a edge off the base at an angle to allow a flush fit to the hull glued it down . then slot in 2 pcs of scrap pine as supports along the keel line these had grooves in so they slotted over the keel proably not necessary but i put them in anyway.





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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2010, 06:19:21 pm »

Alright todays update. Fitting the ladder/extension and rudder underside supports

what should have been an easy job took longer in planning then it did building so here goes....

cut 2 strip's 8x1" of 2mm ply

after working out the angle theres a 5 degree taper so slight you can barley see it in the photos . i cut the angle over the entire 8" strip

OK marking 1" of the back section as over hang i lined up the rudder and marked where the hole will go..

now i can cut the length down to size and re cut the taper i cut off a further 2" of the length so overall its 6" total inc the overhang, also before the cut around the rudder hole i places a 5p bit around and drew around it to give me the extended shape. A 5p worked out a perfect shape for the job

one done .. 2nd to do and finished..
 
next job was to drill the holes... i used a hand drill rather then the pillar since I'm not at work and no access but this helps today for the next bit..

I placed the parts on the hull lined up the rudder hole.. now using a diamond tip Round counter sink at 90 degrees sunk the hole to allow for the rudders support to sit at 90 to the hull this keeps the plastic part just above the surface. next is to shape them down, so far i have only smoothed off the edges as currently i am fixing the prop angle once that angles fixed and I'm happy i will shape then down to a point flush with the hull and taper the edges.

next job will be the prop angle and the extension







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triumphjon

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2010, 07:43:45 pm »

what length is your huntsman model please ?
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2010, 07:53:45 pm »

46"
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triumphjon

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2010, 10:41:14 pm »

same size as the mfa fantome that im currently restoring / covverting to twin shafts & electric power !
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Prophet

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2010, 10:49:33 pm »

Evening guy's & Gals

 Todays update on the build so far explores the prop shafts, prop supports, props, rudders and the rear plane extension for the ladder sit.

Lets start with the extension.

Made out of 3mm marine ply sections are 1.2" x 3" there are 2 of these glued on at the same angle to the boats hull . now before fitting ...

I took the back edge and marked the transoms curve and transfered it to the extension , then on the outer edge i used my glasses to make the outer indentation which would be the ladder climb section.
after making one i made the other and a simple job of gluing then to the hull and to the reinforcer strip which now is perfectly shaped.

Some history as to what i have found is that this extension is only on the sea faring race versions as a simple ladder support for diving etc to allow easier access back onto the boat, there are other version that have a similar extension to the rear that do not meet in the center, these other variations are water brakes which fold down to create drag to help the turn, a friend of mine told me these version are found particular on the river or canal versions like the full huntsman 31 to aid in tight turns at low speed helping the boat turn on the spot. if anyone has any other information or a correction to this i would be pleased to hear about it.





Next up was the prop's themselves

For this huntsman I am using two  8" props.. 2 reasons ..

First they will help increase torque.
2nd....  there what i had in my spares box and wasn't prepared to spend a further £8 each on up to 12" adding extra cost to the build.

To get a decent fit i created some prop supports on the underside using 2 1/2", 1/2"x1/2"x2mm ply squares using a knife i cut them to a 35 degree angle on both sides and then carfully formed them to sit 90 degrees(vertical) on the hull and then using a med sized round file cut a grove into the top to sit the props into.

These allow the prop to sit currently at a 30 degree angle.. i assumed at one point it would be around 18-22 however after sitting a 50mm prop on it needed to be much higher to allow the take of the larger props .  these prop supports i was intending to make using 1mm sheet brass however for structural reasons i decided to form the basic support from ply glue and screw into the hull. these will later be strengthen via GRp tissues however i will make brass ''shells'' to encase these later for visual effects after the hull is grp and finished.




Fitting the props came up next.

Pretty simple job since i had already pre drilled the holes slot them in and make up where they hit the internal bulkhead and drill a new hole there to allow them to slip through to where the motor compartment would be.
 
To check alignment i popped the rudders in and watched for the end of the prop shaft to Touch the center of the rudder I'm pleased to say .. after boring out a further 2mm of the original prop shaft holes and adjusting the supports groove that they now line up perfectly.

The prop shafts will not be ex poxed in place until final preparation for paint to the boat so not to damage or bend the props while work in progress, for photo purposes .. props are taped in place.

Flipping the boat over i created something not that important but some 'cases' around the prop entry points thus allowing me a solid area for the epoxy to take keeping it clean and also allowing a decent size area to drop the lead ballast in place equally if required. there is also a secondary reason for these boxes , there top surface will help support the lower deck of the superstructure but that will be revealed later.






This concludes tonight's work on the projects but over the next few days i Will add the remaining water chines and start prep work on the internal battery boxes radio tray etc and some more of the superstructure seeing how i am still awaiting delivery of the grp and matting ... gotta feeling everyons on holiday this month uff  <:(


 

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triumphjon

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Re: Huntsman 31 to 28 Build & Conversion
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2010, 11:31:45 pm »

shafts looking good , although the rudders look very large ? what are your shaft centres please ? im looking to fit the fantome ones in the same places ! although i dont have the same hull extensions for the bathing ladder as fantome has lighter metal item , 
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