Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 ... 40   Go Down

Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 210424 times)

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #700 on: August 29, 2007, 03:23:41 PM »

Yeah then come down to earth thinking about the naff UK weather :(
Logged

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,579
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #701 on: August 29, 2007, 05:41:48 PM »

Yeah then come down to earth thinking about the naff UK weather :(
Nothing wrong with our weather, the suns shining and not a cloud in the sky. 8)
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

adam07

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #702 on: August 30, 2007, 09:37:15 AM »

yes brain
my name is Adam and i am up in north queensland.
I too am expecting my first shipment soon to can't wait.
where abouts in melb you from.
Logged

adam07

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #703 on: August 30, 2007, 09:46:36 AM »

the suns shining with not a cloud in the sky 364 days a year here, 8)
give me a rainy day anytime O0
 
Logged

colin-stevens

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 629
  • Location: Southwater
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #704 on: August 30, 2007, 02:19:18 PM »

wish i hadnt said anything now. leave of about the Babes, you can keep the 4x.
and leave it out about the weather, rubbing salt in or wot!
colin
Logged
grumpy old XXX

cbr900

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,867
  • Mayhem is the Only Forum!
  • Location: Tuncurry New South Wales Australia
    • Roys Hompage
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #705 on: August 30, 2007, 03:46:30 PM »

Colin,

But when it does rain here it does not muck around, up north of me had last week 1000 millimetres of rain in 48 hours, just a drop in the ocean........ ::) ::)



Roy
Logged
I try not to be naughty but nautical

gary r uk

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 313
  • Location: slough
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #706 on: August 30, 2007, 09:01:34 PM »

hello
ebay has issue 20-23 if anybody needs them a few days to go
cheers
gary
Logged
SAILING WITHOUT FAST ELECTRICS PRICELESS

Brian1960clock

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #707 on: August 31, 2007, 03:02:03 AM »

yes brain
my name is Adam and i am up in north queensland.
I too am expecting my first shipment soon to can't wait.
where abouts in melb you from.

Hi Adam and all,   I'm from Northcote, Melbourne. Martin, I will build my model as a static ship. I have built Amati's H.M.S Bounty and was very impressed with the quality of timber and fittings. This is my first battleship model, as I mostly build sailing ship models. 

               Cheers   Brian.
Logged

cbr900

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,867
  • Mayhem is the Only Forum!
  • Location: Tuncurry New South Wales Australia
    • Roys Hompage
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #708 on: August 31, 2007, 06:25:15 AM »

Hi all,

Iwill be building my Bismark as a full RC version..................


Roy
Logged
I try not to be naughty but nautical

Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,694
  • Location: Peterborough, GB
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #709 on: August 31, 2007, 11:30:11 PM »

Well I'm going to spend some time over the weekend building model boats..........! :-\

Anyway, I've bought some "gauze", which one do you think I should use?







The reel is self adhesive builders 'scrim' and the other stuff is comm or garden bandage.
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"   -  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/

Ghost in the shell

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,546
  • Go Nuclear! you'll love it
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #710 on: August 31, 2007, 11:35:07 PM »

id say use the builder stuff, more durable.
Logged
"xxxxx" the tree huggers, GO NUCLEAR

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,626
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #711 on: August 31, 2007, 11:53:38 PM »

Martin, how is PVA type glue going to bond with mesh that open? I don't think that even resin would work with that. Before plastering the inside of your pride and joy at least put it on a test piece first and see what happens: 1) does it actually set properly to the underlying surface?; 2) does it improve strength?

I think that Hatchette are making a very dodgy suggestion here. Be very careful before committing yourself as you'll never get it out if it doesn't work.
Logged

PSSHIPS

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #712 on: August 31, 2007, 11:57:03 PM »

A suggestion. Have a look in Halfords for some Davids tissue for use with their glass resin, it worked for me for years before I descovered propper fibrglass.
 Hope this helps.
 Paul...
Logged

chingdevil

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #713 on: September 01, 2007, 09:07:39 AM »

Martin

I still do not think that guy in yellow has any idea what he is doing, sack him and get a proper model boat builder in, YOU ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Brian
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,626
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #714 on: September 01, 2007, 10:54:53 AM »

Yes, looks like Bob the Bodger - "Can we fix it? No we can't!"
Logged

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #715 on: September 03, 2007, 02:40:26 PM »

Martin

Suppose your hands are tied if you are bulding by the book with going the magazine/Amati method of Gauze n PVA,  in that case I would go with the smaller web of the two as that is the approx size the mag shows.

Having said that I would not go this route at all and go via the PSSHIPS method, also it seems some in Germany have used a product from Graupner called 'Glattfix' for sealing but dont think it is available in the UK, I think this is only a sealing agent so unsure if there is any strength to it ;)

Also I hear that the Hull scuttle/porthole eyebrow's are to be supplied as PE parts at some point in the series O0
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 03:20:54 PM by Down below »
Logged

colin-stevens

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 629
  • Location: Southwater
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #716 on: September 03, 2007, 04:53:36 PM »

reckon you are making a grave for yourself going witht the hatchet method (pva). pop down local model shop and get some cloth and resin.
or try local chandlers and try there stuff. you can thin it out a bit using Meths. use only a very small amount though.
Logged
grumpy old XXX

Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,694
  • Location: Peterborough, GB
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #717 on: September 05, 2007, 09:24:24 AM »



I think I have to go with Down below / Hachette on this one. Gauze (bandage) and PVA.
I don't think it the best or easiest method by far but it certainly not the worse.
.... The bow section is going to be a real bitch!

"pass me that bucket of PVA Bradders!"
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"   -  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/

madrob

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #718 on: September 05, 2007, 10:40:16 AM »

Planking finished......YES   O0   O0


Happy? me? never   ;D
Logged

cbr900

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,867
  • Mayhem is the Only Forum!
  • Location: Tuncurry New South Wales Australia
    • Roys Hompage
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #719 on: September 05, 2007, 11:09:16 AM »

Martin,

Over here PVA is also available in waterproof variety, adding that to your builders tape will work very well, I use the glue all the time..........


Roy
Logged
I try not to be naughty but nautical

Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,694
  • Location: Peterborough, GB
    • Model Boat Mayhem
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 12:02:49 AM by Administrator (Martin) »
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"   -  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/

Cargo

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #721 on: September 07, 2007, 11:32:34 PM »

Looks like a poor idea from Hachette  >:(
Logged

edible_engine

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #722 on: September 08, 2007, 01:11:09 AM »

why dont you just use standard glass fiber ot cloth and resin ??
Logged

mark_1984

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #723 on: September 08, 2007, 03:38:57 AM »

ROLF.  I'm glad I'm not bothering with this ;)

Have you tried painting the inside of the hull with PVA, then applying dry gauze to the glued surface ?
Logged

cbr900

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,867
  • Mayhem is the Only Forum!
  • Location: Tuncurry New South Wales Australia
    • Roys Hompage
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #724 on: September 08, 2007, 05:41:07 AM »

Martin,

When sealing the inside of my boats, I use a gauze which is used by plasterers, it has a reasonably open weave but is already sticky one side, cut and stick then simply paint with waterproof PVA, seems to work quite well..........


Roy
Logged
I try not to be naughty but nautical

colin-stevens

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 629
  • Location: Southwater
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #725 on: September 08, 2007, 06:54:03 AM »

go with rolf, its the way you would apply resin and cloth more or less. paint the inside with a slightly thined down mix, so it soaks into the wood, let it get tacky, then give it another coat, apply dry cloth and stipple it down with a dry brush. if need be you can give it another coat.
have fun
colin
Logged
grumpy old XXX

Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,694
  • Location: Peterborough, GB
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #726 on: September 08, 2007, 07:19:54 AM »


I'm trying to stick as closely as possible to the instructions but this method seems to be a fools errand ....

mark_1984 - yes tried that but the gauze has no weight of stiffness at all and PVA is not 'sticky'!. It's like trying to decorate with toilet paper.

cbr900 - yes I bought some builders gauze (see below) and will try that next...... :-\

« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 07:25:58 AM by Administrator (Martin) »
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"   -  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #727 on: September 08, 2007, 08:59:27 AM »

Not  good is it :'(

I wonder if Amati have really thought this one through as in how customers will manage to do it right as I bet loads wont which then makes the task pointless!

I cant quite get my head around how they arrived at this method as being suitable for a model that is to hit the water, for one reason alone, they do not advise the use of waterproof PVA to apply the gauze!

So is there thinking that the use of standard PVA & gauze is simply to add strength rather than seal the inner of the hull??......because if there is a seal element required then they potentially have a major disaster on there hands!

I think this gauze n PVA advice from what is supposed to be one of the worlds largest wooden model boat manufacturers is naff, I cant undertand why they did not advise the use of resin as they expect customers to buy everything else to finish this model so why not advise something that is a tried n tested method instead of some hair brained idea that might mean ships sink!!

Martin -

Step 1 of issue 18 describes the Gauze & PVA method as "sealing the Hull with caulking", not a word on doing this with a waterproof PVA!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 09:49:47 AM by Down below »
Logged

kayem

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 162
  • .....excellent!
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #728 on: September 08, 2007, 10:37:58 AM »

Not  good is it :'(

I wonder if Amati have really thought this one through as in how customers will manage to do it right as I bet loads wont which then makes the task pointless!



I think you're right about Amati not having thought this through, in fact it looks to me as if they're making quite a lot of it up as they go along. I suppose that Martin has to go along with what they advise, but if I were building one of these Amati Bismarcks that I'd paid for with my own money, I'd do quite a lot of things differently, especially sheathing the inside of the hull. Where it's accessible, I'd use neatly tailored squares of 300gm glass mat with  polyester resin stippled into it, if you wanted the best possible result, glass cloth and epoxy would be even better, but I have a minor allergy to epoxy so don't use the stuff except as an adhesive. It's where the sharp end of the hull isn't too accessible that problems start of course. What I'd do is use a syringe to inject a fairly generous quantity of resin into each hull compartment, taping over any gaps in the planking first to stop the stuff running through, then turn the hull every which way to make sure that it has got into every nook & cranny, and lastly use bits of kitchen towel held in tweezers to remove the excess if anything more than a small puddle looks like developing before the stuff cures. For obvious reasons, you can only do one compartment at a time with this method, you have to let one lot set before you pour any more wet stuff into the next area. Epoxy is a bit better than polyester for this, but you have to use the  runny stuff sold for laminating, it wouldn't work with epoxy adhesive. I have some planked hulls treated in this way with standard polyester laminating resin, glass reinforcement added only where it was reasonably easy to get at during construction, and they're as good as the day they were treated after 15 or more years of sailing in sea water.
Logged
"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book; inside of a dog, it's very dark" Groucho Marx

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,579
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #729 on: September 08, 2007, 10:40:20 AM »

Martin might I suggest using this PVA . Have used it in 1:1 boat construction.

UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer
 
Safe & Simple to use, UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer is the toughest, fastest, strongest and longest lasting PVA you can buy.

 
 
Use UniBond Super PVA for
 
· Bonding
· Woodworking
· Hobbies & Crafts
· General Repair
· Priming Old Porous or Dusty Surfaces
· Priming Gloss Paint to Take Wallpaper
· Stiffening Fabrics

 
 
Available in following sizes
 
· 250ml Tin
· 500ml Tin
· 1ltr Can
· 2.5ltr Can
· 4lt Jerry Can
· 5ltr Can

 
Apply one coat to wood. When tacky apply fabric then recoat with PVA. O0

http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/pdf/pva.pdf
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 11:27:27 AM by DickyD »
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #730 on: September 08, 2007, 10:45:27 AM »

The best bit is that it seems the outer of the hull planking is simply to be sealed by the paint, combine that with a non waterproof PVA on the inner hull and you have a model that wont be sailing for too long if it gets paint chips etc., even better is the mag dont advise the use of waterproof PVA for the build ::)

Maybe the model was never meant to be around for to long as the actual ship was not around for too long either ;D
Logged

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #731 on: September 08, 2007, 10:47:12 AM »

Dicky - is it waterproof??
Logged

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,579
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #732 on: September 08, 2007, 10:55:01 AM »

Dicky - is it waterproof??

Certainly is.
When it first came out many years ago my father was building a cabin cruiser and he glued several pieces of teak together and left them in a barrel of water for several days.
No way he could get them apart.
Also we used it all the time in the building industry. It can also be used for sealing concrete floors etc.
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

Down below

  • Guest
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #733 on: September 08, 2007, 10:59:54 AM »

Thanks for that O0

From B & Q I presume?

Have never used it, also like the idea of it being user friendly which is probably why Amati suggested the PVA method but sadly it dont seem to work as well as they thought it might :-\
Logged

gribeauval

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
  • Tidy Bench -Tidy Mind, Messy Bench - BUSY!!
  • Location: West Yorkshire
Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #734 on: September 08, 2007, 01:13:38 PM »

I line all my hulls with waterprooof PVA, normally Unibond Super PVA, and cheap non-woven cleaning cloths (they act like glass fibre finishing mat). I even do the outside when adding a finishing layer of diagonal planks. As yet I have never had a leak in any hull! ;)

Mike
Logged
True Lifeboat Nutter!!
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 ... 40   Go Up