Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job? (Read 210740 times)

TCC · « **Reply #1085 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:50:02 AM »

If I was you, I go for a satin paint.. looks far neater on a model than matt.

About 'grey', not all greys are the same. I went with humbrol m64 but in some lights, that's a bluey-light grey. I wish I'd thought more about the paint and not just picked 'the nearest in the humbrol range'.

I'd have preferred a more silvery light grey than a bluey-light grey.

And if I had my time again, I'd get together a load of paint swatches and pick out a set of tones that went together well, not jus pick the right colours that may not sit as well together even though they are 100% accurate. I'd have gone for the good looking model.

Hagar · « **Reply #1086 on:** February 19, 2009, 07:04:01 PM »

Quote from: berth44 on February 19, 2009, 02:35:41 AM

I'm at the painting stage, now, I'm NOT doing the 'stripey thing', plain 'ole grey, now which one??. I've opted for 'medium grey' and I have 'airbrushed' all the brass bits that I have completed so far, but I'm beginning to think that I should have used a 'light sea grey'instead. Can somebody put me right before I reach a point of no return...please???...Dave

Here you go; every thing you need to know. RAL nr. Colour name, and THE Paint that hits the spot!!!
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody

Or the Kriegmarin range maybe; http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody
(just a happy customer, spreading the word)

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #1087 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:01:30 PM »

You mean I can't paint mine Metallic Tahitian Blue ?!?!

Peter Fitness · « **Reply #1088 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:03:05 PM »

Quote from: Martin - Forum Admin on February 19, 2009, 08:01:30 PM

You mean I can't paint mine Metallic Tahitian Blue ?!?!

Why not Martin, it would look beeeeeuuuutiful

Peter.

berth44 · « **Reply #1089 on:** February 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM »

Thank you fellow modellers for the information, much appreciated for sure!, only thing was as I'm an impatient type of fellow I ran off to my local supplier of 'Humbrol' paints and purchased 2 tins of 'light grey matt 76' and after giving it a 'trial run', I thought, looks more like it, better than the 'medium!!', and proceeded to re-spray all the stuff that I'd done previously. (only then do you find you've got replies, not used to that,but I'm still listening!!))
I found in a couple of instances that the light grey wouldn't cover the darker grey, but it actually looked quite good...instant used look!! Anyway, I thought, I'd better fix it,as I want the ship to look 'relatively new' So I decided to use my 'fibre glass pen', this took off a layer of fine paint/dust (?) leaving a quite clean but 'streaky' light grey, and I thought that looked even better! I then rubbed the thing with my finger, this put a light sheen on the paintwork,and I thought, wow, this is even better still!!
I did another few parts, but I'm thinking this'll take some time to do, maybe I'll give it another coat of light grey??!!...or maybe as Martin suggested, 'Tahitian Blue' if all else fails, at least it'll be individual for sure!!........Dave

TCC · « **Reply #1090 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:05:27 AM »

Quote from: berth44 on February 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM

I ran off to my local supplier of 'Humbrol' paints and purchased 2 tins of 'light grey matt 76' and after giving it a 'trial run',...

I found in a couple of instances that the light grey wouldn't cover the darker grey, but it actually looked quite good...instant used look!! Anyway, I thought, I'd better fix it,as I want the ship to look 'relatively new' So I decided to use my 'fibre glass pen', this took off a layer of fine paint/dust (?) leaving a quite clean but 'streaky' light grey, and I thought that looked even better! I then rubbed the thing with my finger, this put a light sheen on the paintwork,and I thought, wow, this is even better still!!

Told ya!

Dave 'light grey matt 76? I can't find that mate. Matt steel grey in M87, that it?

There are some nice light greys in the satin range and some inbetween m140 and m147.

I'm looking for a mid-grey with a touch of violet in it, anyone got a humbrol or any other range that would suit? Cheers

Xaro · « **Reply #1091 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:06:20 PM »

Hi everyone
To start with: I'm not used to write English, so excuse me for any writing or gramatical mistakes

I'm a nearly 65 years old Belgian who just have started the building of the vessel. Im awaiting part 4, so llots of work coming up.
So far I've only build some plastic model kits in the past years, so I will have a lot of learning to do.
I hope to may post some questions here if problems are ( surely) coming up.
From Belgium (with love

Xaro

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #1092 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:17:56 PM »

Welcome aboard Xaro!

berth44 · « **Reply #1093 on:** February 22, 2009, 11:59:06 PM »

G'day all, thanks TCC, but the colour is definately 'matt 76', says it on the lid!! So continuing on, I got all the brass that I was'nt satisfied with and using the 'fibre pen' cleaned everything up and resprayed it. I'm adding a Dark gray/black line at the base of All cabin and bulkhead structures, tried masking it, pulled the paint off, so I ended up using a 'Fine Compact Disc/ CD black marker to do this with a 90% 'that's the very fellow' and a 10% 'that'll no dae' rate!!, ("spray it again Sham!!)
Unfortunately, this leaves a sort of 'reddish blue sheen' when the light hits it from a certain angle, but when the 'Satin Varnish' is applied, it goes away!!, so I'm quite happy with the result, and it's a lot quicker than doing it 'freehand' with a paint brush!! ...Dave

P/S, "Velcom", Xaro!!........don't be afraid to ask questions, the guys on this Forum' will be only to glad to help you out...we've all been where you are, just remember, there's no hurry, read your instructions, deviate if you must, finding a way is what it's about..your the man!!

TCC · « **Reply #1094 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:33:50 AM »

Quote from: berth44 on February 22, 2009, 11:59:06 PM

G'day all, thanks TCC, but the colour is definately 'matt 76', says it on the lid!! So continuing on, I got all the brass that I was'nt satisfied with and using the 'fibre pen' cleaned everything up and resprayed it. I'm adding a Dark gray/black line at the base of All cabin and bulkhead structures, tried masking it, pulled the paint off, so I ended up using a 'Fine Compact Disc/ CD black marker to do this with a 90% 'that's the very fellow' and a 10% 'that'll no dae' rate!!, ("spray it again Sham!!)
Unfortunately, this leaves a sort of 'reddish blue sheen' when the light hits it from a certain angle, but when the 'Satin Varnish' is applied, it goes away!!, so I'm quite happy with the result, and it's a lot quicker than doing it 'freehand' with a paint brush!! ...Dave

P/S, "Velcom", Xaro!!........don't be afraid to ask questions, the guys on this Forum' will be only to glad to help you out...we've all been where you are, just remember, there's no hurry, read your instructions, deviate if you must, finding a way is what it's about..your the man!!

Dave
M76 is 'Matt Uniform Green', that it? M67 is 'Matt Tank Grey'.. confused as to what Humbrol colour you've used.

Good tip about the CD pen along the bottoms of the painted surfaces, I was going to try painting strips of paper 2mm wide and glueing them along. Maybe site them first 'dry' and touch the bottom with the CA tube and allow the paper to soak it in. But I'm not at this stage yet.

The bad side of doing the above is you'll have an edge of paper on view, and even if it's painted, they didn't have a skirting board-like member along the bottom, did they?.

What colour pen did you use?

Drawbacks? Any concerns as to logevity? (fading?)

Cheers.

berth44 · « **Reply #1095 on:** February 23, 2009, 03:25:14 AM »

Hey TCC, thanks for the reply. You've got me thinking now, but the one thing it is not, is green!! I'm absoutely 100% that it says 76 on the lid of the can, but it'll be the first thing that I check when I go into the garage this avvo...apart from opening the windows to let the heat out!!
The CD/DVD pen is BLACK, I really don't know if it's available in grey.(?) In real life, it's hard to determine whether the actual line line is 'dark grey' or' black'(??) In black and white photos, which most of them are anyway, it does look a dark grey in some, but then another shows it's positively black, it's so hard to find two photos the same!!!. So I guess, it's up to the modeller as to how one should portray this line, or as you say TCC, 'skirting!' (the same theory applies to the ships actual Grey, is it dark, or light???)
Looking and studying photos, it sure looks like it's painted!!. As far as fading goes in the long term??, could'nt say, but I'm thinking that it'll last a long time as it's been varnished??! On the 'real thing' I only thought this 'skirting' was applied from new up until she was 'painted out' for it's final forey into the Atlantic in '41, but if you 'Google' the 1/200th Bismarck by Peter Beisheim, it looks like he has this in place, so if he's right, and all the other info is right, then we should all be painting this line in??!!...Dave.

P/S, I'm thinking, what about transfers???,anyone who makes their own could quite easily make a big black sheet and cut strips from it, or what about transfers for model cars, how many modes do we see with big bold black stripes, I'm certain they can be bought separately from good model shops??, just a parting thought!!

TCC · « **Reply #1096 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:12:56 PM »

Dave
I didn't want to seem to be harping on about that colour... it's just curiousity.

Fading
I'd think the varnish will be very good for it (the pen ink).

The painted 'Skirting'
I always thought these were painted in from new and for the lifetime of the ship. Purpose? Aren't the black strips so wet mops and any dirty water won't stain the lighter grey paintwork? I've never give them a thought but all the ships I've ever been on have got this strip at the bottom of painted surfaces.

In saying the above, J Haynes LION has mid grey 'skirtings' on a very light grey paintwork.

Therefore, I think it's one of those 'it's up to the modeller' type things and that this area was one of those things that constantly changed and was left up to theofficer on the spot and what paint the ship had. Anyone know anything differemt?

I have a pretty good 'on deck' image from Bismark, it's of one of the secondary guns and there's a wall behind it with a row of taps along. I scanned it for you and Martin and all you other guys who've had a taste transplant. (German WW2 ships? They're even worse than modern RN!

)

Just call me 'Mr Scan' as that's all I seem to be doing nowadays. Nah, Martin helped me out the other day with images, as have others, so I'm returning the help and helping bolster Mayhems rep as a 'helpful' site.

p.s I'm joking about other peoples models!

berth44 · « **Reply #1097 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:27:37 PM »

Mr Scan man,??, It's got a good ring to it 'TCC', could even be a song title, first verse, "hey Mr Scaaaann Man, do a scan for me, am all out to sea" ( Hum it to an old 'Byrds' tune, Mr Tamborine man!!??).........Anyway thanks for doing that, certainly shows the 'skirting' for sure!, and more than likely, the colour is a 'dark grey', but for me, black it is!!
My trips aboard ships are few, but I can remember on trips 'Doon the Watter' in the old paddle steamers, ie..'The Waverly'. Later on in life trips accross to Europe, and yes, that line was always there, usually green, but you don't know why (should've asked me dad, he was in the Royal Navy during WW2, bit late now mind you!!) Swabbing the decks (harr) sounds like a good and logical reason, I just can't think of any myself, I'm sure someone out there must know????.
Lastly, did a bit more last night, the 'pen' works fine on the straight bits, bit more difficult in the curved sections, I keep making the line too wide!, so I have to remove it, re-spray, then do it again, I think I should be wearing my 'head magnifiers', I'll give that a go next time!!...."OOPS!!"... I forgot to look at the paint number on the lid, but I'll do it tonight ...for sure! Dave.

TCC · « **Reply #1098 on:** February 24, 2009, 12:42:33 PM »

Yeah, but did you have the image? (the deck on with the taps?) I'd kill for one of them of my ship.

Can't you use a ruler? Use it to keep the nib towards the edge and away from encroaching 'up' the wall?

I knew there would be these isues to face. That's why I thought 'pre-painted paper strips'. You may even get away with using PVA and sliding them into position, and just do you best to stop glue getting on the finished surface above.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #1099 on:** February 24, 2009, 12:51:27 PM »

You could try using black Trimline tape. There is a selection of widths and you can varnish over it if you want to tone it down. Hardly any thicker than a coat of paint and it is repositionable to a certain extent.

Example here: http://balsamart.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=109_297

Colin

Hagar · « **Reply #1100 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:26:39 PM »

Could a paint pen, such as those tamiya sell do the trick. If you paint before assembling, you could trim the tip og the pen, and tape a wire guide to it. Run it around the bottom, using the guide to kep the pen right at the edge. Bobs your uncle!

berth44 · « **Reply #1101 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:03:50 AM »

Gentlemen, I thank you all for your responses, it's what the site is all about!! TCC, "yip" I did see the image, I've seen it before, but a lot smaller, and now that I know that the 'long thing' is a row of taps, it stops me from wondering!! It is represented on the model I believe, but obviously not in such detail!. I did model a 'drinking well and tap' on my 'Amati TITANIC', that's an even smaller 1/250th scale! I made the well out of a bit of plastic sprue and the tap was a bent piece of copper wire of a miniscule nature, and between the two, look the part!! Using a ruler would be impossibly hard (I think)as these brass parts have doors, vents, vent covers etc etc as pronounced etchings.
I found out 'accidentally' that the CD/DVD pen was infact 'double sided', so, if the finer tip is used to first draw in the 'top line', the 'bottom line' can be filled in by using the 'fine' liner again, or the other 'fatter' end. I'm thinking that your paper idea is really good, glued on with craft glue and then varnished might work, but would the overall varnishing maybe 'crimple' the paper as it does with transfers??..."HMM??"
Colin, I've seen that'Trim Line' tape used before as the 'gold band' on the above TITANIC, personally if I had thought of it I would have gone for the TRANSFER, you can get some sort of 'sealer' that moulds the thing over individual detail parts, ie, rivets, so it may have did the same with the doors and vents on the brass as I've mentioned above, but I've noted 'Trim line' into my diary for any future projects that I attempt!!
Ian M, the 'TAMIYA' paint pen was my FIRST thought as it was ideal, and avail in D'Grey!! I had purchased 2 from E Bay and used them for doing the exact same thing on my 1/350th TAMIYA Battleship Missouri with great success, and No GUIDES!! (a couple of BOY SCOUTS had to do!!) I could'nt find anymore on E Bay, nor did my local model shop stock them, so 'the pen' was it!!!..".Bobs yer uncle!!"....thanks everybody for the info, all noted!!.............Dave.

berth44 · « **Reply #1102 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:47:26 AM »

"Hey TCC!!", forgot to mention, the lid definately has 'matt 76' on it, and yes, it's Humbrol and it's 'light grey', so, I'm afraid I aint got a Scooby Doo!!...Dave

TCC · « **Reply #1103 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:56:21 AM »

Dave
Glad the images highlighted it a bit.

Could the different humbro, no be due to me looking at a UK paint chart while you are in Oz? It's either that (which I'd think would be highly impractical of them) or yours is from an old range? But they guide I'm looking at it 10+ yrs olf and that's the same as a new one in the front of a Squires catalogue.

I don't have a clue, either.

Colin, that tape sounds the biz... what is it exactly? What is it used for? Is it a thinner version of 'pinstripe' apes you used to get for cars in the 80s? If it's just a 'sticky back', it will need a varnish over it to keep it firmly on over the years, I'd think. Cheers mate.

Re: Transfers.
You can get blank A4 sheets that will go through an inkjet, or toner, and you can make your own transfers. I looked into it briefly but you can't print 'white' with an inkjet.

But why do the above when I can buy colins £3 rolls that come in the right size.

Cheers lads

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #1104 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:09:15 AM »

Quote

Colin, that tape sounds the biz... what is it exactly? What is it used for? Is it a thinner version of 'pinstripe' tapes you used to get for cars in the 80s? If it's just a 'sticky back', it will need a varnish over it to keep it firmly on over the years, I'd think. Cheers mate.

It is like the car pinstripe tape in that it is applied in a similar way by peeling off the backing. But it is considerably thinner and the adhesive is waterproof although I usually apply varnish over it anyway on the belt and braces principle.

Colin

Technical info:

TrimLine

Self Adhesive Coach Line. A 2½ metre length of 8 different width tapes on one roll. Widths' 0.5, 0.8, 1.3, 2.1, 3.3, 5.0, 7.0 and 10.0 mm. Colours available Black, White, Red, Yellow, Royal Blue, Sky Blue, Green, Orange, Silver, Gold, Lime Pink, Purple, Lilac, Cerise, Dark Blue, Turquoise and Wine.

The specially developed material adheres well to all surfaces and can be taken around tight curves without shrinking back and can be shaped around compound curves easily. The range of sizes from 0.5mm upward means there is a size to fit all models from the smallest train to the largest aircraft.

berth44 · « **Reply #1105 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:18:38 PM »

I wonder if it is available in Oz Colin??, (probably not, this place sucks when it comes to getting simple or specialised model stuff!! I collect BR locomotives 'OO' with a view to actually having a layout at some time!, and when I was back 'home' in Scotland last Nov/Dec I visited the 'Warley' model Railway Exhibition in Birmingham, it became blatantly obvious just exactly what I was missing!!! ) This stupid marker has just dried up! It's not too late to use something dif'rent!!...Dave.

berth44 · « **Reply #1106 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:53:33 PM »

G'day, well, it doesn't get worse that this, issues 80-83 despatched on the 12TH February 'lost in space,gone, vanished into thin air!!' (how, who would want them???), so replacements have beeen ordered by my supplier, so that could take up to the next 12TH, like the 12Th of never, so this boy could be dead in the water once I have all the brass sides painted, glazed, and fitted.
Any you builders out there have decking problems??.'Dry fitting' the ' lasered' deck part to the aft deck section that goes round the brass in issue 62, I found it was at least 3mm too wide, well, either that was out or the wooden superstucture that the above mentioned brass fits was too small. I could have made up this 'wooden' bit to fit the decking better with 'PLasticard', but seeing the brass was 'finished off', fully painted and glazed, to flatten it out and rebend it to fit the 'wider' wood part was out of the question. The only way to 'fix it' was to cut the deck into two sections and by removing a couple of planks managed to get this thing to fit as best as I could!..hope it's not a sign of things to come??.....Dave

berth44 · « **Reply #1107 on:** March 16, 2009, 09:27:22 PM »

G'day, good news for me, missing issues '80-83' were re-supplied by my 'supplier', one week after I called them,(the parts were dispatched to me on the 12th February, but I didn't receive them. I called them, when I thought, "where's my latest lot?" A certain time is allowed (it seems) to pass before the parts are actually deemed ' MIA' and I was instructed to call them again a week later if they didn't arrive, they didn't, but one week after the call, they did!, that was the week my friends!!)) so I say that was great service indeed, why they went missing in the first place??, who knows!, but all I can say in defence of my 'Australian Supplier' is that the service they give is spot on, as far as I'm concerned..and this has not been the first time either!
Earlier on in the 'planking process' I was unsatisfied with the quality on a batch of the '2ND' lot..... replaced, the resin stern part..... replaced...twice!! All came with my next lot of issues, no problems, and more recently in issue 70 I had a small resin part missing...replaced....So, there you go crew, and this afternoon I'm going to call them and say thanks...I'm sure the operators will be happy with a bit of 'positive feedback' instead of the grillings that they'll no doubt get from irate customers!!...Now we can get back to 'the build'....but not this week, a bit busy with 'other things!....Dave.

P/S I also received issues 83-88 as well, so that's 8 issues to work on!!!

tjilpi · « **Reply #1108 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:03:51 AM »

So Martin,
Are we going to see any more of your Bismarck? or have you decided she'll do nicely as a barge without all that silly superstructure?
Cheers
Oz

berth44 · « **Reply #1109 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:48:57 PM »

"Hmmm", I'm thinking it was more like an 'Aircraft carrier', that's what mine is at the moment, with a spitfire on it's deck!......Dave

TCC · « **Reply #1110 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »

Quote from: berth44 on March 17, 2009, 10:48:57 PM

"Hmmm", I'm thinking it was more like an 'Aircraft carrier', that's what mine is at the moment, with a spitfire on it's deck!......Dave

Well you're only doing what they did with a lot of the 1st wars batlecruisers.

tjilpi · « **Reply #1111 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:03:33 PM »

or she'd make a nice Japanese Carrier (scans to 'Tora, Tora, tora' ... mmmmmmmmmmm, carrier)

berth44 · « **Reply #1112 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:39:52 PM »

Hopefully she's not going to be like that for long, but then I'm thinking??, "probably", there's a lot still to be done on the superstructure, so she's gonna be a 'flat top' for a few months yet, might get rid of the 'spitfire' and place the 1/200th 747 on deck....just to be different!!........Dave

Eric65 · « **Reply #1113 on:** March 19, 2009, 11:18:32 PM »

I'm in the throws of widening my hull and deck amidships by about 1.5mm each side, just inside the armourd belt recess.

Test fitting of the supplied decks has shown she is just a tad narrow as I want to maintain the 1 to 1.5mm gap between the decking and deck edge so I can fit the rails in it.

Ah well, such is life......

berth44 · « **Reply #1114 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:12:36 PM »

Interesting point Eric65, need to look out for that, but I might be OK as I did my planking round the 'armour belt' from bow to stern in a very different way to the 'AMATI' instructions, but as I haven't quite reached the 'decking point' as yet,I don't know how it will be, but I'm hoping it will be OK! Obviously, you must be a wee bit further ahead in your construction, thanks for the 'pointer' in any case!
How did you find other parts of the ' laser cut' decking??, I've only 'dry fitted' one deck and that was a hit and miss affair!....Dave.

kelvin · « **Reply #1115 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:23:26 PM »

well everybody,

your doiing a great job building the bismarck. I also have my problems building the great battleship.
here you can watch me building the Bismarck

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15180.0

Eric65 · « **Reply #1116 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:41:23 PM »

Quote from: berth44 on March 22, 2009, 09:12:36 PM

Interesting point Eric65, need to look out for that, but I might be OK as I did my planking round the 'armour belt' from bow to stern in a very different way to the 'AMATI' instructions, but as I haven't quite reached the 'decking point' as yet,I don't know how it will be, but I'm hoping it will be OK! Obviously, you must be a wee bit further ahead in your construction, thanks for the 'pointer' in any case!
How did you find other parts of the ' laser cut' decking??, I've only 'dry fitted' one deck and that was a hit and miss affair!....Dave.

I found the decking to be fine, no problems with it at all. Some parts on the upper decks needed small amounts of trimming so they would fit in place, but only a little. I had considered doing my own planking, but bottled it! Glad I did now.

berth44 · « **Reply #1117 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:53:11 AM »

That first bit I tried on the 'upper deck' (looks like a horse shoe) It was about 3mm wider than the structure it was supposed to fit round!. I cut it in two and removed a couple of planks to try and get a better fit. If the brass hadn't been fished off and glued to the wooden bit, I would have increased the wooden part in size and re-bent the brass rather than cut the decking! ..Dave

keef666 · « **Reply #1118 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:29:32 AM »

hi everyone can i just add that the black line you are talking about, is called a boot topping, and isn't black but a very dark grey

berth44 · « **Reply #1119 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:29:27 PM »

G'day keef666, I thought the 'boot topping' was the grey/black line between the grey hull and the red keel??? I can't say you are right or wrong on the superstructure, except the fact it is probably 'dark grey', but, when most of the photographs are black and white images, it's hard to confirm 'black or grey' because of different 'shadows', and of course the actual quality of the image/print, but thanks for that imput, I'm sure there has to be someone in the 'know'
The Battleship 'Missouri' that I was (am still!!) building and superdetailing it as I went along has a 'line' as well, for this I used the 'Tamiya' paint 'pens' and it was dark grey that I used, unfortunately I can't get these in Canberra, the ones that I did have were off of Ebay, and I can't find no more of them!!....Dave.

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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job? (Read 210740 times)

TCC

Hagar

berth44

TCC

Xaro

berth44

TCC

berth44

TCC

berth44

TCC

Hagar

berth44

berth44

TCC

berth44

berth44

berth44

tjilpi

berth44

TCC

tjilpi

berth44

Eric65

berth44

kelvin

Eric65

berth44

keef666

berth44