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[Down below]

Hachette will always call the shots as to when items are despatched or made available for purchase and sometimes there methods does not always tie up with when you would normally need them re a build.

Generally where possible they will leave expensive components until as late as poss in the series, this is so that by then they will have a better idea as to how many are likely to see the series thru to its end, and so not tie up money in over ordering components, am told non of what they order from source is on a sale or return basis so they have to use the parts on somewhere or they usually being destroyed, this is why they move parts around the world to a country taking the relevant mag, so it is likely that some of the mag parts we are getting may well be left overs from Germany as it is only the magazine language text that changes.

I know we slate Jacklins but my view is that Hachette are directly responsible as Jacklins are only the fulfilment house and do what Hachette say, if Jacklins are not allocated enough mags to send out then the knock on effect is delays to the customer, they are mainly responsible for the set up of subscriptions and any associated problems or damages, though even this seems to be hard work for them >:(

[Daryl]

no reply so far to my e-mail from Amati asking for clarification on August if they are talking about Germany or the UK.

I have just read on the buildthebismarck.com forum that one of their members received a e-mail from Hachette on the 29th May saying that from issue 23 there will be instructions in the step by step and an offer on the r/c option. This will be confirmed at a later date. Looking on the German preview sites I'll be intersted to see where their issue 23 etc mentions anything about an R/C option?

Daryl

[Down below]

No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, not long to go then and will be interesting to see what exactly you get for your hard earned dosh and if it is value for money, though I reckon if you order it you wont be seeing it for quite a while as so far they dont know how many are to go fo it and no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Hmm just seen that posting re the RC set, seems a bit jumbled to me, in once sense it says from issue 23 you can choose for your model to be RC or static then it goes on to say for those who choose to go RC there will be an offer which will be confirmed later on......So whats that mean then can we you order it at 23 or not ???

[tigertiger]

No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, ... no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Issue 23 out of 100

Maybe lead time won't be such a problem  ::) ::)

[Down below]

But if you read my last paragraph its not clear if you can order the RC pack at 23 or it is a future offer to come, not only that surely the later you receive the RC pack the harder it gets to install, yeah you have 140 issues to install RC gear if you put it that way

[Daryl]

I too thought Hachettes reply was as clear as mud! I would prefer to mount the shafts as early as possible. Since I can't read German I don't know what they received with their issue 23, the answers could lie in one of the postings on a German forum but until someone who understands the language trolls through them its guess work.

Daryl

[Down below]

Well looking at the German preview for issue 23 the parts supplied are screws to hold the deck plates down. more planking and a stern resin nose cap.
No mention or photos of anything that relates to RC gear, so maybe it is simply a separate leaflet that comes in 23 that allows you to order the RC gear, though reading Hachette's reply re this on the .com site is like you say as clear as mud :-\

[Daryl]

Just looked again at the posting on the .com site, it mentions that from issue 23 the step-by-step instructions will give the oppertunity to make it static or r/c?

I have had a look on a few of the German sites and the pictures don't give any clue as to contol options, I don't know if the text does.

Pity they don't make themselves a bit more clearer, they do ask people to contact them, I hope they reply.

Daryl

[Down below]

The build step-by steps for mag 23 certainly do not appear to have any info re RC installation.

Have seen a  posting  saying that in Germany a battery & charger are supplied with the RC pack though the RC packs were due to arrive last Autumn and they are still waiting, now where have I heard that before ::)

Stupid us, if we had looked just below the transmitter photo on the German offer sheet which says 'Das Akku-set (6v 4.5ah) mit Ladergerat'....presumably translates to 6v 4.5ah battery & charger

So for 169 euro (approx £115) you get the 2-channel 40Mhz am transmitter & receiver, 1 servo, AA battery box, 2 motors, 3  propellers, 2.5 propeller shafts, 2 sets of 2:1 gear trains, ESC,  2 rudders,  2 capacitors, 2 motor mounting plates and the 6v battery pack & charger, the offer comes at around issue 20 or so which seems to tie in with it actually being issue 23

If the delay of receipt is anything like in Germany then you might see the pack for the winter which would be at around issue 50 as Germany are already at issue 40 and have still not received it
 

[Down below]

Have you seen that bit about the German guy with the 3 motor option broke three of the stern resin centre prop shaft forms whilst trying to drill them out for his conversion, god knows how many the inexperienced modellers will go through to get it right ::)

I think to some extent a number of the inexperienced having seen the German guys modified build are jumping straight into it not realising the easier option from Hachette, or maybe there is some assumption of this is the way to go if you want the RC vesion.
The site is now starting to be flooded wth every query in the book re the modified build, this seems to detract from what the site was set up to be, which I might add is way behind in the build against what the curent issue number is.

[Daryl]

I'll go along with with that, I to noticed he had to have several attempts to get it right. The people with a simple pillar dril or hand drill have a very difficult job, an engineering collegue of mine said it is tricky even with a proper engineering shop to do it in.

I too have noticed the trend to jump ahead and get the bits for the three motor set up,I think a lot of people are going to struggle and wreak the hull. This conversion is not for the faint hearted. I have noticed most of the questions are from people who have not tried to do anything like this before and are gettinginto difficult by going off at a tangent with modifications way beyond their capabilities. The German guy does tend to encourage people to buy the stuff he sells, this can lead the novice into territory they havn't the experience to get out of. We think the instructions are pretty good if you follow them.

Some of the questions are entertaining to say the least. But everyone has to start somewhere, help is usually a click of the keyboard away. Difficult bit is deciding which bit of advice is the best one to take.

Haviing run down anyone who wants to depart from Hachette R/C instructions Sam has decided to leave as long as he can his options open by marking as he planks the position of the prop tubes in relation to the slots in the frames. We assume Hachette has a cunning plan to do this at the appropriate time if not we have.

Interesting the way the build is not going on the .co.uk site, looking at what he has done before he has departed from the instructions more than once. I thought the object of the site ( buildthe bismarck.co.uk) was a step-by-step guide to building the bismarck, this guy is way behind on the issues and looks like he has not done anything for some time. I have not checked on his Titanic site to see how that went to guage what he has doen before.

There seem to be a mass exidos to jump ahead and spend £150 ish on r/c gear  way before anyone has had the chance to see what Hachette offers. For the novice theirs may be the best option but as with most things there is more than one way to do it. This point has escaped the attention of quite a lot of builders.

there now off soap box and about to take cover

Daryl

[Down below]

  @Daryl

All valid points and a lot to consider for the novice, yeah its great to have an all singing & dancing version, but unless you are very confident and have some experience of what you are getting into then the safest route is to follow the mag build, afterall the mag build advice is supplied by Amati who the kit originates from ::)

I'am surprised the webmeister on the .co.uk site has not stepped in to switch the drift back to his own build but right now he seems to be steering clear of what is going on, am sure it will confuse many with both builds on the go or in actual fact there will be three builds on the go, Static, Hachette RC & German RC.
It would benefit that site to have a separate page where the German guy can answer all his queries and slate the Hachette RC pack to his content, wonder who will pick up the fallout when things start to go wrong?

[Daryl]

Interesting to what constitutes an experienced modeller, I find it is one hobby where you are allways learning and can never have all the answers. The German guy has built three so far according to him, I don't know if any of these are similar the the one he is doing. He is very good and his skill shows in the pictures he has posted, but who knows if he has gone down the right route until the hull is afloat.

There doesn't seem to be much moderation going on with the postings on their forum, one guy has openly advertised scaned copies of the plans in the anatomy of the ship book. Umm bit naughty that. The webmaster has you say is keeping his head down, I wonder why. I did read a post by the German guy which says he got fed up posting on the German web sites due to the flak he was getting, ( no pun or insult intended). I wonder why as with everything there are two sides to the story. he has a good build but I wonder how long his help will streach out to once thing start going pear shap with novices trying to copy what he has done and making a mess of it.

Looking at the list of r/c gear it does not seem to bad value for money, depends on the quality and the appearence once it is installed. I still think it is a bit rash to jump headlong and order loads of r/c gear at around £150 from this guy just yet. I also noticed he quickly put a post up saying he has had a few price increases in his supply of parts and postage increases. The easiest solution but not nessessarily the best is to follow Hachette... for now that is.

We are keeping our options open by marking the position of the tubes where they enter the hull, so later we can fit Hacette, our own or whatever tubes is apropreate.

Daryl

[Down below]

I agree, keeping your options open seems the best way forward on this project.

The german guy also sells on ebay germany, so its likley he is out to make a nice little earner if he can attract enough to buy into his goodies hence why he keeps pushing it.
I feel it is a little tactless though for him to to keep branding the available Hachette gear as being rubbish, many will go that route regardless either because they feel comfotable with it, it suits there experience or its what funds will allow, so does that mean there model is rubbish too for have the Hachette RC pack?

Not sure if he has considered this, there is a potential here for some of those who have bought into his system to blame him if things dont work out too well re the installation or the end result floats or goes like a brick :-\

[Daryl]

I forgot he mentioned he sold on ebay, that brings a few points to ponder.

I wonder what Amati/Hacette thinks of him running down their products. This is a double edged sword, if customers make a mess of Part D for instance, then they make money by selling replacements, ( you can't keep saying its broken in transit). But if they make a total mess of the whole hull and give up on the series by going down the route suggested by our German friend then they loose sales.

There are lots of complaints about Jacklins lack of service which I beleive is being looked into by Hachette, but when an individual who looks like he is on a nice little earner by denouncing the Hachette r/c gear and promoting his own might ruffle a few feathers amoungst the Amati/ Hachette sales team. they are not going to maximise their profits by independant suppliers rubbishing their products.

Who is going to sort out the ptoblems which may arise as a direct or indirect consiquence of altering the build plan supplied in the magazine. How far will the German guy go to help before he decides that's it he has made his money and will quietly withdrawfrom the forum. also he is getting cheep advertising direct streight to his potential customer base via buildthebismarck.co.uk. He also does not have the fees charged by ebay nor the cost of setting up and running a web site of his own. Is it me or is this been all carefully thought out ???

Amati/Hachette has invested time and money in designing and sourcing the r/c gear, they might think this guy is only a minor irritation but if his r/c gear takes off then at what point will they have a quiet or not so quiet word to try and slow down or stop his sales drive.

The webmaster of buildthebismarck has been quiet for a while I wonder why, has anyone else noticed that he departs frequently from the magazine build instructions. i thought the whole point of the web site is to help people build it not confuse as seems the case.

Haveing said all that Martin how are you getting on?

Daryl

[Daryl]

just noticed a few posts asking is this the correct way to butcher the keel for the third shaft on build.co.uk. does not bode well if people are asking allready if they have got it right.

Daryl

[Down below]

A lot to go at there..

He will only loose sales from those he does not manage to convert as he already has made his money out of those those who get it wrong or right.
I cant say I have looked too closely at his prices, having said that he only needs a small fraction of those building the RC version to jump in with his set-up to be heading out of "Nelson Mandella Tower's"

Jacklins will never change no matter what Hachette tell you, its the nature of there business and do you really think they give an hoot about someone else customers, they are judged on answering calls and lots of them so the more problems the better as calls to there premium rate number must make them a packet, so a conspiracy theory here, do they actually create problems to guarantee callers?

The german guy is certainly not hiding the fact that he is there to push his set-up and supply the components...just one simple thought on that one, he could well be a model shop proprietor discreetly selling his wares

I cant see Hachette getting involved, afterall what there customers do re there models is the customers concern, should problem's be brought to Hachette's door that can be identified as to having nothing to do with the mag build then Hachette will simply walk away as would any manufacturer.

Maybe the the webmaster of that site is at a loss for what to do for best :'( 

Maybe Martin is looking on in disbelief  

[Daryl]

Good point about the discreet modelshop, I have just read that he sells planking sets. the following I got from his last posted price list

two drive set 60 Euro
three drive set 90 Euro
this seems to include motors( looks like Graupner) brackets U/V joints, shafts and props

Add to this as extras if required

30A esc at 30 Euro
40A at 40 Euro
80A at 50 Euro they look like Mtroniks

condensers at 5 euro

v-mixer at 30 Euro
Y cable at 15 Euro
rudder levers at 15 Euro interesting discription there.
Lassek rudders at 20 euro
Lassek props at 50 Euro
servo mounting set and steel wire to attach to rudders 10 euro
9000mah battery at 12 euro per cell
3 channel Tx with RX  60 Euro
2 channel Tx and Rx 50 Euro

More stuff than my not so local model shop, can add up to quite a bill, he don't mention how much the planking set is and what would the advantage be in using his? the planks we have so far look ok.

He says the prices include postage.

Then we get Hachettes Fred Flintstone gear we havn't seen advertised in the UK.

He seems to denounce the props supplied with the kit, why? they havn't turned up in Germany yet, they might work, who knows.

Daryl

[Down below]

I think his planks will be the full length version, approx twice the length of the mag supplied ones rather than the cut down version being supplied.
It means you can plank over a wide span with less butt joints, most planked wooden boat kits supply the longer length rather than the short ones we are being supplied, suppose its a packaging/breakage issue for Hachette as in effect they would be twice as long as the mags, where poss they will try to supply components that are no larger than the mag size.

Blimey his list does add up, if you went the full monty on his set-up you could be looking at not far off £300... boy there are going to be some disappointed people out there who buy into it and then cant pull it off :'(

Think his denouncement of the Hachette props is from looking at the offer leaflet, they seem like basic black nylon basic props to me, if he is comparing these with the brass Lassek ones then we are talking chalk n cheese so you cant compare like for like, at the end of the day I suppose Hachette are supplying what works as there is no mention of the RC pack being the dogs b*****ks 

  @ Fred Flintstone....he the man

[Daryl]

speaking of props no mention of them yet in  the German previews, I wonder if they are brass and usable. I suspect they are one of the last items supplied. Its the props for the static kit I am thinking of.

I wonder when the German round of the Fast Electric Bismarck racing series will start

Daryl

[Down below]

For the static display model the props are brass though these are not suitable for the RC version

If you look at the RC offer sheet photos of the stern there is a hell of a compromise to make for the RC vesion and it simply does not look pleasing tom the eye, I plan to try and replicate it as near as poss without detracting from what the RC bits are ment to do, cant have it all ways I suppose....well thats the theory

If you want a laugh have a read of the small print at the bottom of the home page oo the .co.uk site....love the discalimer bit about 'I might make mistakes' and 'the way I'am bulding it may not necessarily be the best way'....so whats the point then of a build forum that dont tie up what it says in the mag ??? confusion all the way me thinks

[Daryl]

Mine exactly I allways try to replicate the look of the real thing whilst making the ship work. The picture I have seen of the Hachette r/c bits do look out of place. I noticed that the german guy had a bit of ossillation in his set up, his solution was to put it in water so the h20 could dampen it. Out of sight out of mind I suppose. looks like I'll get some props from G. Sitek, 25mm is close to 23.5mm which is the scale diameter, or the Prop Shop.

I notice our german collegue has had a go at the Titanic I wonder how he got on with that. I saw a guy building one at the Weymouth show looked a nice kit. I also spotted the webmaster of the .co.uk site didn't finish his Titanic, pity I looked at his build which seemed a good job he was doing.

Daryl

[Down below]

Am curious now, have just checked out the .co.uk site webmaster's build for Hachette's Titanic, as you say its not finished and stopped at 92 of 100, fair enough I thought until coming across the below posting which you then find he is already on with the build of another ship and running a build forum for it...Build the Bismarck!

A note on the site as follows:

"Due to personal circumstances I have had to put a hold the building of the Titanic. I'am unsure when I will be able to re-start building this model. I will maintain this site for the forseeable future, and will complete the model when possible. I hope this does not cause any body too much disappointment"

Like you say his build looks good but the plot thickens if you think carefully about it....

The posting re the Titanic being put on hold must have been posted around the time of the Bismarck UK launch as he also notes the exact date of its launch, so you might well ask how did he know the exact date if there is no link between him & Hachette?..... am sure that Hachette closely guards the launch date of all its projects for obvious reasons.

Check the posting detail for yourself http://buildthetitanic.co.uk/home.htm

His other Hachette project The Red Barron plane appears to have been completed, there is also some link to the build for Del Prado's Victory ship and he also seems to be building a working steam loco model, busy guy me thinks or is he some kind of model consultant I wonder?

[Daryl]

ummm interesting, this takes up a time, I wonder what he is up to. Lots of projects on the go and information ahead of everyone else, I am thinking if the issue 4 letter as he seemed to have information the rest of the Uk didn't at that time or more accurate.

I think I also found referances to the German guy on one of the Titanic sites. Small world isnt it??

Daryl

[Down below]

I bet the german guy near papped himself when the issue 4 letter surfaced

Jeez he is advising on the mag build now, dont these guys read the mag and whats happened to the webmaster who is supposed to be doing the on line build?....that web site is a mess, shame as it started off well!

Am undecided as to what really is behind 'the front' to the on line build, maybe something maybe nothing but one thing does seem aparent its starting to look very suspicious :-\

[Daryl]

I agree totally, I have just read with interest, OK laughter, his advice, it seems apparent that the people who are asking the questions didn't read the mag fully. My son does and then passes it to me so I can read the historical stuff. I'll follow the site as the chaos develops, no moderation whatsoever. Its turning into a free advert for German supplied r/c gear, still cheep advertising, but what happens when things go pear shape might turn out interesting.

As you say the online build has come to a halt, if you compaire this site with the .com site it is like chalk and cheese. the .com is relativly quiet with questions that are relativly sensible. I agree the site started off well but has turned into how to install three motors and ignore the instructions.


Might be intersting how this develops, the German guy said in one of his posts he fell out with some continential forums, I wonder what the story there is.

How many will last the course remains to be seen. There seems to be confusion which way to go newsagent or subscription, both has its faults. There are a fair amount of people on that site which seem to be in a rush, I thought this was a relaxing hobby.

I am interested how it all is unfolding, more questions than answers. that site has more twists than a ride at Alton Towers.

Daryl

[Down below]

I suspect the german guy departed the continental forums for one reason alone, those who did not love his set-up he slated and those who talked of the Hachette RC pack he also slated.
There is already evidence of the same tact creaping in on the .co.uk site, in one of lhs latest postings he abruptly tells a guy 'nonsense' for asking a simple question about running over the plank lengths at the bow by a few mm, he comes across as you cant tell me anything and those who go the Hachette RC pack are you know whats, so it could be that the guys on the continental forums had a go at him and he spat out his dummmy, it maybe that something in his set-up is not as compatible as he would like to think, sometimes we cam overcomplicate things for the bus of it looking a very technical set-up.

In many cases there does seem to be some urgency to the build, what some dont seemed to have grasped is that this is a 140 week series, so yeah run out and buy his RC gear but your still not going to get beyond the build of the weekly supplied mag, its fine chopping the ship about to install his RC gear but they and especially he simply does not know what is to come over the 140 week span, at least us here can keep an eye in what comes in the mags with Germany being 25 mags in front  

[Daryl]

I noticed in one of his posts he mentioned a vibration when he ran his set up at top speed, his solution was to ignore it as he thought the problem went away when the hull was in water. I'd be inclined to find out why and cure it. first place to look is if those Lassek props are balenced, but judging by the skill level of most of the builders on that site they might struggle to balence them properly.

i've never some across anyone who has r/c the Hachette/Amati Titanic. I did see one modela t weymouth but did not manage to speak to the builder. He was sailing it in the pool at the Pavilion, it looked a bit unstable to say the least when it turned, in fact on more than one occasion he looked a bit worried. Great looking model I hope he is there this year.

Daryl

[Down below]

Hi Martin

Its on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site within the German RC gear topic on page 5 and is the 2nd posting.

Somthing is not all as it seems here, if you look thru that topic from the start one minute he has black nylon props in place shown twice then suddenly out come the brass ones from Lassek, so does his vibration comment relate to having the nylon props installed or the brass ones or is it related to his set-up?

Daryl - like you say all that has happened is that the the vibes have been muted by the water, they are still there so he could be talking problems in the long or even short term, why I said previously possibly a great next TV ad for the Renault Megane as its a*s in this case might well be shaking

[Daryl]

And if the stern is not strengthened enough then it could fall off like the real one. A friend of mine had a small diameter prop shaft oscillate in the middle, took ages to work it out, he fitted a bearing in the middle of the tube and hey presto problem solved.

Daryl

[Daryl]

Just had this reply from jacklin, I sent the e-mail to Hachette.

Dear Daryl Dobbs,


SUBJECT: BUILD THE BISMARCK.


Thank you for your e-mail dated: 12/06/2007.


From issue 23, the step-by step instructions will give the opportunity to
make the model either static or radio-controlled.


For the people who choose the RC option, there will be a special offer to
get the engine and the RC unit. The offer will be confirmed later on.


If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us
directly.


Please accept my sincere apology for the late response.



Yours Faithfully
Jonathan Moleta
Customer Care


looks like a bogstandard reply. The same I got word for word last week. They still prattle on about the step-by-step instructions giving the option of installing r/c gear.

Daryl

[Down below]

Am puzzled by what they mean when they say "the offer will be confirmed later on"

So does that mean you can order it at 23 and its cost will be confirmed later, or they will confirm later when you are to receive it, or details of the RC pack are in 23 but it will be offered later on?

It seems a bit vague to me, it could also be ages before anyone sees it, by then its installation surely gets more taxxing ???  Germany were told it was expected there last autumn....they are still waiting for it to surface

Have you seen the posting today on the site from a guy who's build is at 11, he now wants to hack his hull to accomodate the german guys 3 motor set-up and asking him to post the detail on how to set about the hacking, its all going to get very ineresting ::)

[Daryl]

yes I have seen the post, it seems an epidemic now to build as far as part 11 then go into driller killer mode and start hacking the keel around. I will follow this lot with interest to see how they get on. I have done a r/c conversion similar to the German on a Billings boat, not easy and lots of reinforcement needed. Good luck to them I think they will need it.
I like the earlier post about the guy who didn't have a drill long enough so he drilled from both ends and still had a gap in the middle, so he heated up a nail and burned the remaining bit out. Umm on a wooden hull brave or foolhardy man.

The letter I got was word for word the same as the one I got from Amati last week, the questions I asked hachette/jacklin was. 1/ when are we going to install the prop shafts, 2/ when are we going to order the R/C gear and when will it arrive and 3/ what battery is supplied and what charger is it 240v for the UK. Nice of them to answer so vauge, doesn't inspire confidence.

Daryl

[Down below]

Well at least you got a reply, I have had no reply so far from Amati or Hachette on the exact same questions, even so I suspect any reply would ditto those you've had, for some reason they are playing there cards close to there chests or there really is something they dont want us to know, why else be so vague?.... its not rocket science or then again for some people at the South African call centre this might well be the case

[Daryl]

One thing I have noticed is that most of the .co.uk bunch are members of the .com site. But on the .com site there is no german flogging r/c gear, I wonder why.

Hachette almost seems to be making this up as they go along, I wonder how far ahead they are in ordering the parts for the mag, I assume Amati has finished designing it and a pre-production model exists somewhere. i am surprised they don't have a help line when the build goes wrong, I am sure it would be a money spinner for them. just look at some of the questions on .co.uk. The apparent differences between the German pictures of the R/C gear and the pictures in the pull out of issue 1 is interesting, unbranded motors, cheeper? changing supplier, or waiting to see how many people in the UK and Germany order the stuff to get the best price for themselves by ordering in bulk.

As Hachette/Jacklin got brances in New Zeland and Australia I wonder if the Bismarck is on sale there?

Daryl