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[Down below]

Marki

Have you staggered the planking on your model, what do you think?

[kayem]

Thanks Daryl....... more abuse...... 

Maybe Martin, but all 'in a nice way', I hope.

Daryl was right about that step by step planking tutorial, very good indeed, but it's really aimed at modellers building proper plank on frame models, where they want all the craftsmanship to show, and the end result to look planked with lovely joints and contrasting wood grain everywhere. All that talk of tapered planks and stealers isn't very relevant to what you're trying to achieve here, where you want your model to look anything but planked, after it's been covered with a few coats of grey paint. You're trying to replicate a steel hull, not a wooden ship. I think I can see what the makers are trying to achieve by not staggering joints in the usual way, they are trying to simplify the planking process for modellers who may never have done anything like this before, but until we see the finished result, we aren't going to know whether they've got away with it or not.

[herby]

Heh that tutorail was same that i was trying to link here.  I just try to link it at wrong site. My bad  :-[

[Martin (Admin)]

Just found the reference in the instructions,

12th issue, 9th step: "All the strips glued to each other and to all the relevant ribs."



... bit of an after thought then, thanks!  >:(


I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html

[Daryl]

I think it is mentioned in the first issue and I thought they mentioned it in the first step in issue 11?

Daryl

[kayem]

I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html

Looks like we're on something of a damage limitation exercise here. I'd suggest applying aliphatic glue along all the dry planking joints with a paintbrush, maybe thinning it down slightly with water first. Depending on how close your joints are, you may have to do this several times in places, but since the stuff is sandable, it won't matter if you get a bit on the surface. If you don't glue all the planking joints, especially in the second layer really well, there's a risk that over time you'll get cracks appearing through the paint surface as the joints expand & contract, and I bet that's something that Hatchette don't warn you about in their instructions. When you sand the hull, use a block that spans at least two or three bulkheads, fairly coarse paper and not much downward pressure, otherwise you'll just remove material at the bulkhead positions, also make a smaller convex block to finish the bows. I'll look forward to seeing your next photo report.

[Daryl]

Hachette recomends GAUZE BANDAGE soaked in PVA glue in the inside to strengthen the hull. This earth shattering idea comes in issue 18, as you read this try not to laugh to much They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl

[Down below]

 

[Daryl]

I forgot to add, the revolutonary idea of using waterproof glue didn't cross Amati/ Hachetts mind. This is I think Amati's first foray into the world of R/C boats and what a mess they are making of it.

I have reason to beleive that issue 21 will contain some interesting information, so perhpas it is not wise to rely on the previews of the issues Germany have received.

Daryl

[mark_1984]

Interesting commment.... what do you think is going to happen to the paint work and outer planking if the paintwork isn't waterproof ?

In my opinion (feel free to disagree) wooden hulls need to be waterproof, both from the outside in, and the inside out.  Get water soaking into the planking and the paintwork will crack and peel as the wood swells.  I would advocate using a waterproof glue (cause you can never guarantee that the inner and outer finishes will remain perfectly waterproof), varnishing the inside (cause you will always get some splashes inside), or resin coating, etc, and making sure that the outer hull does have a waterproof coating.

They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl

[Daryl]

I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl

[mark_1984]

I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl

I don't quite see what you're reply has to do with what you might think is going to happen to the paintwork if the planking starts to absorb water ?????????

[Martin (Admin)]

Marki53, your hull looks songle planked in this picture, or is that an optical conclution!

Is it double planked here?


How did you seal your hull for water testing?

[Down below]

Both question's already been asked by me and were replied to earlier in this thread, if you read what is coming out of Germany it seems Amati want us to plank over the Hull resin parts with the 2nd planking to level up

[Colin Bishop]

Waterproofing? Well that's where I reach for the good old gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull but I don't think that will feature in the instructions somehow. Pity, as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.

[Martin (Admin)]

I don't know what the instructions will say but that's an idea I would like to try Colin.
( I would prefer to do a fibreglass tissue & finishing resin .... but I have a phobia about resin finishes... mainly because I've never done one before! )

Using the new planking clamps now... pictures later.

... gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull .....  as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.

[Down below]

As I undertand it Amati say the application of paintto the outer Hull skin is good enough to seal the Hull

The inner of the Hull is sealed by Gauze bandage (as in medical use) and the application of standard white PVA wood glue to bond it into place, some water seal ??? ???

[marki53]

The hull is completely double planked, even above the recess
the hull above the recess shall not be double planked as per instructions, but in this case i disregarded any building instructions
so i bought planks in 1200mm length and made my own 2nd planking
i sealed the hull with an ugly smelling timber additive fron graupner, named 'glattfix'
this gave me a wonderful smooth, strong and waterproof hull

markus

[Daryl]

its nice to know what is going to happen ,  read carefully what Hachette send. Issue 21 is only the tip of the iceburg.  Still not long to wait.

I am not commenting on deviating from hachette's instructions just make sure you know what you and they are doing.
Daryl

[Martin (Admin)]

[marki53]

its nice to know what is going to happen ,  read carefully what Hachette send. Issue 21 is only the tip of the iceburg.  Still not long to wait.

I am not commenting on deviating from hachette's instructions just make sure you know what you and they are doing.
Daryl

i know what i'm doing - but i'm not so sure about hachette

if you follow their instructions for the 2nd planking, then you'll receive a wonderful separation edge (between hull and deck) on the outside of the hull.
with my custom-made planking up to the deck this edge lies inside the hull, just where the deck veneer ends.
so this way of planking makes the edge invisible and more waterproof

markus

[Colin Bishop]

Martin, I've always favoured the gumstrip approach as it is easy to use. Resin and GRP tissue is fine but does require a lot more rubbing down. The beauty of gumstrip is that it shrinks very slightly as it dries to give a really smooth finish. You can use just water to stick it on but I prefer a weakish Cascamite (now marketed as Extramite) mix which effectively bonds the gumstrip to the wood hull with a waterproof seal. I then "paint" over it with shellac solution (button polish will do). It only needs a few very thin coats. Then you just rub down with very fine abrasive paper and finish with any paint you prefer. My Granada model (the white one) used laquer paint around 30 years ago, had several years hard regatta use and has spent the rest of its life in a case. No problems with the hull at all. My unfinished Brenda used Halfords acrylic spray paints over the shellac.

[herby]

Not sure ar we talking abought same thing but,

Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.

[marki53]

Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.

i know - that's why i used those long strips only for the 2nd planking

markus

[herby]

Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.

i know - that's why i used those long strips only for the 2nd planking

markus

Ye i thought so. Just want to say it  that no one else do it. 

[HS93]

Any idea what this tool is Martin seems to use one a lot, He hangs it around his neck and I think it stops the glue from dripping on the table . any idea where you can get them.??????

Peter

He He

[Colin Bishop]

I think it's some sort of radioactivity warning device...

[Captain Povey]

For me this is the eveready automatic bench wipe. As you lean over the model to inspect the far side it automatically wipes any glue paint etc from the near side. I have also seen them in offices where the can function as a coffee/tea wipe.  :)

[Martin (Admin)]

Correct Captain Povey, my auto tea/coffee/gravy absorbing device.... one size fits all. Patent void.

[Colin Bishop]

So, if you lean over your coffee is it a cup tie? 

[Martin (Admin)]

.... Colin is on top form tonight!

[Colin Bishop]

Yeah, got my new PC working - you're widescreen Martin!

[Daryl]

I have come across this statement from Hachette.

Hachette is currently investigating the points raised via the German & UK web forums but would like to stress that they work with one of the most renown model specialists in Europe, Amati.  Amati's experts have worked with original Blohm & Voss drawings as well as reference books to produce a very high quality 1:200 model.
 
Regarding the specific point raised about the anchor, Germany gives 2 pieces in issue 21 and 23 which allow you to easily position the anchor. This  approach is consistent with the level of details and accuracy you can expect for an 1:200 scale model. However, Hachette Partworks will offer an alternative option by giving an extra piece in issue 35, which can be used instead of the pieces given with issue  21 & 23, and which will make the model look even closer to the actual ship. All the information will be detailed with an insert in issue 21.
 
In the meantime, Hachette hopes you continue to enjoy building the model.

[Down below]

It seems Amati/Hachette are listening :)

So we cant now assume that the german previews are what is coming to the UK as issue 35 now disproves that

[Down below]

Marki

Would you know if any more problems have come to light in the latest issues out in Germany?