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[Captain Povey]

Hi Martin, I definitely do not fancy trying the gang plank. I tried coming out of a hut in Indonesia once down a pole from 12 feet up cold stone sober was bad enough. I suspect those clever German designers made sure that it did not matter which way the anchor came up it stowed as the first arm would catch in the recess and futher pulling rotated the other arm in. Probably wrong but it sounds good. Sorry to be a pain but from what I can see in the picture it looks to me as if all the portholes were recessed. Cheers Graham.

[Colin Bishop]

The scuttles will certainly be recessed to the depth of the hull plating but no more than that. Pictures show more detail here (quite an interesting site): http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/gallery/themes/gallbismstarboardforesection.html

[HS93]

The problem is at 1/200 the recess will only have to be the thickness of paint, I am not a fan of rivets on models because some commercial hull have rivets the size of dinner plates , I think the way to put a recess would be to use a mask and airbrush a tone darker to show depth.or make a tool out of tubes (one inside the other and just pushand twist  gently to leave a mark.


peter

[Colin Bishop]

If the scuttles are less that 2mm in diameter I would be inclined to punch them out of black/dark blue Trimline adhesive tape with a leather punch and stick them in place. Thye neatness will outweigh the technical inaccuracy and avoid the need for drilling holes which will have to be lined with some sort of tube and then glazed  as you will never get sufficiently crisp edges in wood.

[Down below]

Hmmm

Just to throw a spanner in the works.....

The superstructure portholes which are part of the PE parts do have eyebrows, these holes seem to be approx the same size as the hull portholes, so it could be that the pothole recess on the hull portholes has been lost in scaling but surely not the eyebrows too??

Martin -

We are too busy trying to sort out the Amati problems

[HS93]

Just out of interest if you look at the rope going from the stern and you blow the picture up slightly it looks like the rope is recessed in the hull and even across the porthole (sorry I cannot call them scuttles as I can only think of coal but I'm not a boat person)

Peter

[Colin Bishop]

The pictures on the link I posted above clearly show eyebrows on the hull scuttles. Making them from wire would be no problem, sticking them on neatly would! A possibility would be to make a tool out of a quarter section of sharpened brass tube and tap it against the hull above the scuttle. Then paint in the minor indentation in a darker shade of gey. Another possibility would be to make them of wire, put the standard grey paint on them and attach them to the hull while still wet leaving the paint to make the bond - more practical for a static model than a working one though.

[Down below]

Thanks for that Collin as this model can be constructed in both static and RC versions

and my appologies as i keep calling them hull portholes....Scuttles it is

Maybe the work invloved to create this is why Amati have not provided this detail in the first instance which makes a bit of a mockery of there statement of this model being accurate ::)

[Cargo]

What is the diameter of the portholes? Found some etched "eyebrows" with 3 mm.

http://www.mz-modellbaushop.de/d_8096_Regenrinnen_fur_3_mm_Bullaugen.php

[Colin Bishop]

I think, to be fair, that 1:200 is a pretty small scale to be putting on on fully detailed scuttles/portholes unless you are a expert modeller or a miniaturist! I don't think this model is supposed to be THAT accurate! The claim of "accuracy" in the hype is likely to be aimed at modellers of more average abilities - otherwise there wouldn't be an adequate market for the series.

There is in fact another way of doing it which I used on my Granada around 30 years ago. The scale was 1:100. I plated the hull with paper and cut out the portholes (merchant ship!) before attaching it to the hull. I then painted carefully inside with dark blue gloss paint. It looked OK see pic:

[Down below]

Fair comment Collin, but in that case they should not hype as many in Germany are not to happy with its accuracy, the last place you want to launch a partwork which is an icon if it's accuracy description only turns out to be hype

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, I have been following this thread with some interest and am aware of the criticism. I suppose there are two aspects to the degree of accuracy though. One involves getting the basics right such as the stern anchor which would be apparent at any scale, while the other is concerned with just how detailed can you expect a 1:200 scale model to be? i.e you need to show the scuttles but not necessarily glaze them. Errors of the first type are not acceptable but the amount of detail you'd expect to be shown would depend on the abilities of individual modellers. If Hatchette did supply the eyebrows for the scuttles is it reasonable to expect the average subscriber to be able to attach them accurately without going nuts! They also seem to be taking some liberties with the stern design and shaft alignment for the working model which I wouldn't be too happy about - it's a bit too close to the old practice of adding a bit to the hull depth to improve stability for my liking and means that the model will not look accurate when out of the water.

[HS93]

There are very few kits that will satisfy all you have to remember who this kit is aimed at.  and I would have thought its aimed at a very broad group because of the way it was advertised and sold.  it has to be  able to be built by a novice thats why its not sold through the trade, and at the end of the day someone will have a nice model representing the bismark. as modelers we add our own flair to the build and add or change things we don't like , how many kits do yo see in shops will fit through your letter box as mail ?
I think at the end of the day there is a good basis for all ability's to get what they want out of it..

Peter

Sorry I was posting this at the same time as colin

[Captain Povey]

I think Colin and Peter I think have said it all very eloquently regarding scale, accuracy what can be expected of modellers of average ability. Cheers Graham

[Martin (Admin)]

Done a bit more on my build....... Here

[slewis]

Looking good Martin
I wonder ,at this late stage ,of the possibilities of getting all the partworks now from week 1 to today ? then carrying on the build . Maybe a call /email to Hatchette would be in order . I have always been a slow starter 

Shane

[Ghost in the shell]

as for the unscale depth of the hull, when a model is on the water who really notices it? the bow thurusters on the sydney star kit at 1/200th are about 2x overscale!

[rem2007]

looking good martin, what time does boots open...kidding mate.....still on issue 13 and going well.....but tired now so off to la la land as te little un has footy practise in the am
cheers robert

[Down below]

They also seem to be taking some liberties with the stern design and shaft alignment for the working model which I wouldn't be too happy about - it's a bit too close to the old practice of adding a bit to the hull depth to improve stability for my liking and means that the model will not look accurate when out of the water.

Very interesting last paragraph comment Collin and your input is very much appreciated


Coming along nicely Martin

[Down below]

as for the unscale depth of the hull, when a model is on the water who really notices it? the bow thurusters on the sydney star kit at 1/200th are about 2x overscale!

I agree at a distance your right, but as this model is also being sold as a staic display model then the detail should be as accurate as possible becuse that is what Amati claim this model to be

[Captain Povey]

Hi Peter, Sorry to go back a bit but ref the Allen head bolts in my part of the enginering world these are often referred to as 'Caphead' or 'Socket head'. The bolt part of the description would indicate that it is only threaded for part of its length and I cannot remember what proportion that is. A screw (machine screw) is threaded along its whole length. Bolts give a more accurate and stronger shear joint and so machine screws are to be found clamping plates which have been accurately located using steel dowels particularly in things like injection mould tools. I expect a lot of you already know this so sorry if this is stating the bleedin obvious. Cheers Graham

[HS93]

Most good model shops who sell model car spares should have the correct ones that have a threaded along its whole length, they where being used on 12th scale cars 25 plus years ago , I'm not shore what size they are for the 380 motors but tamya bugeys had that size motor in some cars, as for the names I could never understand how they came about some of the names for bolts, the other thing to watch is not to use some of the light weight bolts sold for the fly boys as they don't last that long.. one last note the length ...this has to be worked out with care as 1/8 to long or about 3mm can lock the armature and as they will be using wood mounts I would suggest some large washers or make a plate to bolt through to spread the load and make adjustment possible as the wood may become dented. I hope I am explaining this properly ..  thanks Graham. Ill stay out of this thread now as I'm not building one

Peter

[Colin Bishop]

With regard to the detail I think we could sum up by saying that what you can actually see on the model should be correct but that the extent of detail to be shown will be governed by the relatively small scale.

Thinking about the suggestion to use bandaging and wood glue to seal/reinforce the interior of the hull, I'm wondering if those materials were chosen simply because they are readily available on the high street. The obvious (to us) suggestion of polyester resin and grp tissue might put the average punter off a bit. Actually, I reckon that resin and modelling tissue would probably do the job.

Maybe you'll find that, having bandaged up the inside of the boat, they'll suggest you paint a Red Cross on the foredeck instead of a Swastika!  

[splodger]

Maybe you'll find that, having bandaged up the inside of the boat, they'll suggest you paint a Red Cross on the foredeck instead of a Swastika! 

Here's an interesting thought, maybe full-size shipbuilders could learn a thing or two from us modellers. If the original Bismarck had been built with all the inside surfaces of the hull covered with bandage and wood glue, perhaps it wouldn't have sunk, and that would make the model a bit more true to scale as well. On the other hand, I bet that Blohm und Voss didn't have to wait for weekly component deliveries to come through their letterbox though, so maybe this isn't a very sensible suggestion.

[Captain Povey]

Hi Peter. I am not building one either so maybe I should stay out of the thread but I find it a very interesting build especially Martin's adventure with the the plank and frame. So I just chuck my two penneth in when I think I can add to the general knowledge on the site. I did not mean to put you off as you are quite correct in what you say about motor mounting bolt length especially when using wood. Washers under the heads are essential. I have done it incorrectly and locked the rotor which immediately applies the stall current which in turn discovers weather the speed controller is correctly rated. Cheers Graham 

[Martin (Admin)]

This is the motor mount I've used before, a cut down pen display case.....

(Used in my Matchbox Corvette Lightship 'Fastelight')

[Peter Fitness]

I have been following this thread with interest, not that I'm thinking of buying one, but it seems the earlier fears of some that the series would not go the distance were unfounded. The Bismarck part work is now being heavily advertised on TV here in Australia, so it must have been a commercial success in the UK.
Peter.

[Down below]

Looking at the offer leaflet this Bismarck series is either already on sale or to go on sale in the following countries:
Germany, UK, Ireland, Poland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, France & Italy.

So yes it is very likey to  have been a successful commercial venture as I bet the customer figures are in thousands per country rather than hundreds, X that by £700+ per customer makes it a nice little earner for someone

[Brian1960clock]

Hello gentlemen,
                         I'm new to the forum. Just placed my order for the Bismarck series after reading the comments from all of you. Expecting my first delivery of parts soon.  Is anyone on this forum from Australia ?

                 Brian from Melbourne , Australia.

[Martin (Admin)]

Welcome Brian!

Will you be building youe model as Static or RC?

Regards,
Martrin
(ps. I'm in Peterborough, England.)

[Down below]

Further info about payment for the Hachette RC pack:

Once customers have sent in their £10 deposit, they will be sent a letter explaining the detail, the balance of £115 should be paid by the 28th of Feb 2008, they are unable to accept instalments.

Those who pay via credit/debit card or direct debit, payment will be taken 7 days before despatch of the pack which will be the last week of March 2008 as issue 58 goes on sale on the 2nd of April which contains the info for RC instalation.

[DickyD]

Hello gentlemen,
                         I'm new to the forum. Just placed my order for the Bismarck series after reading the comments from all of you. Expecting my first delivery of parts soon.  Is anyone on this forum from Australia ?

                 Brian from Melbourne , Australia.

There is cbr900 and bigfella from Oz, just two who spring to mind.

[colin-stevens]

is down below a give away, orrrrrrrrr, is there another conotation?

[Down below]

Nope... a UK based Brit thru n thru, wish I was down below though....the thought of gallons of 4x coming out me ears and those cool ozzy babes sounds mighty appealing

[cbr900]

And also don't forget the warm sunny days with lots of boating activity......... ::) ::) ::)




Roy