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[anmo]

That's very nice work Mr Grib, very neat.

[Down below]

A new one on me and very useful to know

[Down below]

Martin

Re the issue 18 sealing of the hull with PVA & Gauze.

The crazy thing is that if you look at step 1 of issue 18, it does not advise to seal the very forward inner hull compartment of the bow, it shows at step 3 to start at the next compartment back.

We know why which is because access into the forward inner bow is ny impossible re sealing it as a result of the build/design, but what concerns me more is that they have simply side stepped it and do not suggest any method to seal the inner hull at the forward bow point, so as a result it is now likely many who are novices and know no better will not seal this part of the inner hull basically cos the mag does not tell you to do so!

It would have been better to make part 35 so it was removable so we could position the ribs rather than glueing it in place at issue 7, this would allow easier access to seal the back of the planking at the forward point of the Bow, then simply glue part 35 in place when done

This has to be a major future concern as the Bow front with no inner sealing is then reliant on the outer paint job to stop water ingress into the planking/hull, this combined with those who have not used a waterproof PVA (the mag did not recommend it)) will no doubt lead to problems at some point and especially at the Bow where surely the model is most likely to get knocks & chips into the exterior paint??

[Colin Bishop]

Using the cleaning cloths with resin is a novel idea. I used to do the same thing very successfully with nappy liner tissues when sheathing the outside of my hulls. When it cures the resin is the hardest part of the mix and much easier to rub down than the glass fibres you get in GRP tissues and it's perfectly strong enough. The cleaning cloths would seem to be a very good alternative.

[gerrybuilt]

Hi Martin,
Just thought I would share my experience of caulking with you, if you have n't already gone past that part yet.
 I cut pieces of gauze to shape and length. Place in position and hold firmly. Fill your brush with glue and place gently onto gauze. Let the glue flow on to the gauze. Don't try to spread the glue , you will only displace the gauze. Just keep filling your brush with glue and soak the gauze. Move the brush down and away for the next brushful, not straight off the surface of the gauze, otherwise it will displace. Once you have completely swamped and soaked the gauze it wont move much and you can spread the glue evenly,  and then make any adjustments to the position of same.

I hope this is of use to you.

P.S. How do I get emoticons to go where I want them?

[Martin (Admin)]

Hi Gerrybuilt,

That was the method I did try but the Gause just has no substance and lifts off with the brush.... it's lighter than tissue paper! 

[cbr900]

Thats the big advantage of the plasteres tape cut it to shape and stick it in then seal with the w/pva jobs done..........


Roy

[Down below]

Martin

It seems there is yet another ship partwork series on sale, another Titanic at 120 issues long and supposidly this time with lighting.
The info said it was from Hachette but so far can't find any evidence of this version neither on TV on sale or around the net other than there old Titanic series which was 100 issues long.

It must exist as the guy says he has bought issue 1 at £1, issue 2 costs £2.99 and the regular price is £5, wonder if it is some kind of a test?

[Martin (Admin)]

I hear the first Titanic series made into a nice boat once ballasted correctly.


I think I'll have a go with the Scrim Tape this week with waterproof PVA.

[Down below]

Are you sure it's not the Mantua version you are talking about as the Amati version was static display model, it got well slated for its accuracy & build problems, something about some if its detail having been copied from its sister ship rather than it being from the Titanic!

Titanic as an RC model is renound for its stabilty problems!

Not sure if this new version version is Static, RC or both,  but either way as its likely to be a re-hash of the old Amati Titanic, I for one will most definately be leaving this new venture well alone if it goes on general release as heard & read too many bad vibes about the old Amati version :-\

[HS93]

Have you thought about a watered down coat over the scrim just to hold it, 50/50 with water . when dry give it the coat to seal/stiffen  it.

Peter

[Martin (Admin)]

Yes, that's the way I think I'll do it.
I might even put two layers of scrim if required.

.... that bow section, they're having a laugh!

Have you thought about a watered down coat over the scrim just to hold it, 50/50 with water . when dry give it the coat to seal/stiffen  it.

Peter

[Down below]

And the bow extremity is where the concern lies as no info in the mag re sealing it, the only way is via any inititaive you come up with yourself otherwise this part will remain unsealed and at risk

[DickyD]

Martin can you not epoxy resin the bow section with a couple of thinned down coats. You know, swill it about a bit. :-\

[Peterm]

What I have done with similar problems in the past is to pour resin into the void by means of some 3/4 inch plastic piping, then as suggested, swill it around a bit.   Pete M

[Martin (Admin)]

What are all the German Bismarck builders doing in this regard Down Below?

And the bow extremity is where the concern lies as no info in the mag re sealing it, the only way is via any initiative you come up with yourself otherwise this part will remain unsealed and at risk

[Down below]

Markus has used a product from Graupner called 'Glattfix' which is a paint on type hull sealer which sounds the bis!

Unfortunately it seems this stuff is not available in the UK but he can get hold of it to send to the UK, it sounds thin  enough to be poured to coat the inaccessible parts and the excess poured out.

Other's have siimply poured a waterproof PVA down the gap and poured away the excess, the only problem with this is that it could be hit n miss if not done carefully, you could do the same with resin.

Most seem to have ditched the PVA n Gauze for resin.

I like the sound of that Unibond PVA stuff mentioned previously.

Suppose its a case of what you prefer and what you are used to handling, but I  do think the extreme bow should sealed simply because of the likely hood of knocks etc on the exterior atwhat is a vulnerable point, once the skin is broken your stuffed!

[Cargo]

has paypal, will deliver to GB 

http://cgi.ebay.de/Porenfueller-Glattfix-100ml-Graupner-207_W0QQitemZ260156287175QQihZ016QQcategoryZ9162QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[Down below]

Thanks for that Jan

[Cargo]

And you can buy some more cans, not only one. Shiping to GB 11€.

No, i am not into it 

[gerrybuilt]

Hi Martin,

My big concern is, that, I have glued the fore deck in place. There is now no access to the bow compartments. I sealed the  A B C D sections, as per the instructions, using the gauze, but there was no advice as to the inaccessable forward comps. I think that to reach the parts I should use a can of Heinecken.  It is supposed to reach the parts others wont!!

Seriosly tho'. What if I drill into the deck and pour some 'stuff' into the hole? Any comments?

Gerrybuilt

[Martin (Admin)]

.... on the quiet... I'm thinking of painting/pouring a coat waterproof PVA inside the hull (to glue & seal the planks) and using Epoxy Finishing Resin and Glassfibre tissue.... and Bradders is gonna do that for me!

[Colin Bishop]

Gerrybuilt,

Do you have access through the bulkhead rather than the deck? If so it doesn't really matter. What I would do in your situation is to drill a hole in either the bulkhead or the deck (it can be filled in later). Then mix up some polyester resin, such as Fastglass from Halfords, and pour it into the bow compartment. Tape off the hole and then wave the hull about a bit to ensure that the resin covers all the internal surfaces. Then mount the hull right way up but with a bow down angle of 30 degrees or so. This will ensure that all the surplus resin accumulates in the lower bow section when it cures where it will provide the reinforcement you need.

Colin

[Down below]

Good idea if there is only one bulkhead to drill through.

The problem is that are 6 bulkheads and all are individual compartments once planked and access to drill thru these would be just about impossible, however it is possible to pour resin/glue down the inner surfaces from above but once the forward deck is glued into place this would be impossible.

The only way would be to drill small holes in the forward deck at each bow compartment and then do as Collin says, then seal the holes, theses will later be covered by deck planking etc.

Its quite obvious this kit was only ever meant to be a static display model as the bow sealing would then not an issue, the design for RC has not allowed full considertion of lots of things and the bow inner hull sealing is just scratching the surface.

[Colin Bishop]

The other option is of course to seal the outside before painting. This could be a fairly large job if using tissue and resin but I have successfully used shellac which penetrates the wood and gives a very hard and smooth easy to rub down finish. Another option would be to "plate" the hull with gumstrip paper using Cascamite/Extramite glue to moisten and attach the gumstrip followed by shellac or sanding sealer on the gumstrip. It's easy to do and rubs down well for the final paint finish. I used it on my Granada model 25 years ago and it has never lifted, even after 5 years hard use afloat.

As Down Below says, it was intended to be a static model and they seem to be making it up as they go along!

[Down below]

All good info Collin

The best bit is that its seems Amati are relying on a coat of varnish to seal the outer of the Hull so the Bow inner sealing will very reliant on exterior varnish and paint to seal it.
I would have thought that the Bow was a very important place to seal due to its vulnerabilty, seems ludicrous to me but then again what do I know

Could it be that Amati's inexperience of RC wooden boats is now showing through rather than the static display models they have expertise in??

Just seen a link to a UK supplier of the Graupner Glattfix hull sealing product.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/fillers.html

[Down below]

Martin

Have you had any thoughts about sealing the removable deck to the hull to prevent water ingress, as I cant see there being any info from Amati to do this.

[Martin (Admin)]

I've just been out this lunchtime to get some Unibond Super PVA as TrickyDicky suggested but I wasn't convinced it is waterproof, as it didn't say anything about being waterproof on the tin... not that I'm doubting you Dicky!  :)  So I bought some Unibond Exterior PVA Exterior...... I wonder if they all come from the same big tub anyway.  ::) http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/woodglue.html

I've started painting the interior with PVA now so I'm going to have another go with the builders/plasters scrim tonight. If it still doesn't work, I'll just going to paint a coat of PVA inside anyway to glue/seal the planks.

My preferred sealing method these days is a can of Plasticoat Clear Satin varnish, 2 minutes and the job is done!  :'(

Must ask Shane about sealing the outside of the hull, he seems to have it 'down pat' Here .

I haven't thought about the deck seal yet.... leave me alone! 

Martin 

[Down below]

 

Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
 
Why dont you use that Graupner Glattfix stuff noted above as a UK supplier has been found, its simplicity in itself, you can also use it for sealing the hull outer (much better than the varnish being recommended), simply paint on and get some kip

Glattfix here we come

[Martin (Admin)]

Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
Glattfix here we come

I've already started the interior with the PVA so I committed to that.   :'(
I have no idea what changing half way through will do to the wood but it won't be a good effect!  :-\ 

[Down below]

Fair comment, mind you I suspect the Gauze is to hold the inner planking together as one rather than strengthen it so it might be best to simply persevere as the Glatfix stuff is merely a sealer

[colin-stevens]

if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin

[Martin (Admin)]

if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin

Through the top, prop shaft leaks, wave swamping....... bad workmanship!  ::)

[Cargo]

Wood must be sealed on the in- and outside, simply use glattfix or similar  ::)

[Down below]

Glatfix sounds a great sealer but I dont think it also replicate's the task that the gauze is intended for, is not the idea of the gauze to securely hold the inner planking holding it as one/prevent movement?

Why else would Amati recommend it as it is the waterproof PVA part that does the sealing does it not or have i missed something?

In which case to give what amati intended the better method to go with has to be resin and tissue as Colin says , maybe then use Glattfix on the outer as there are areas such as the exteme bow which are inaccessible to inner sealing cos of the daft design

Seems like we have a plan