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Author Topic: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.  (Read 39074 times)

nhp651

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3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« on: December 12, 2011, 10:16:55 PM »

It has always puzzled and sometimes perplexed me as to what people want and expect from a model kit and one of the reasons that I have defended most kit manufacturers in the past from comments such as overpricing of a kit.
 
Is it value for money, accuracy, built down to a price, top of the range perfectness, or do some just want something for nothing?
 
I worry when people moan at the price of a kit ( not the quality, but the price) knowing what that kit contains, and the pound for pound cost per hour of enjoyment and yes, frustration that they might have to overcome when they buy a model kit and wend their way through the build process to end with a finely built model that they can be proud of.
 
Few people actually out there who build kits (other than those who are involved in the design and development of a model kit) really know of the time and lengths that manufacturers go to, to bring that product to the modelling public, nor the time and costs involved.
 
And so, in this build blog of three classic lifeboats, I hope to enlighten those who think that a model can be produced on a whim, that there is a little more to it than that.
 
I first got into the game of designing kits when I worked preliminarily with the late great Frank Hinchliffe on his two original models for Mountfleet models, the Active Tug and the drifter Danny Boy. Frank taught me the art of centrifugal casting in white metals, for which I am eternally greatful.
 
However, my other skills for producing "kits".i.e. Grp moulding and plans drawing, and instructions writing, come from the profession that I had a career in for 22 years....as a teacher and eventually head of department in CDT ( craft, design and Technology where chronological and discriptive written reports and the art of technical drawing were paramount in that field.
 
After Frank and I went our separate ways in the mid 1990's I set to designing my first kit to go on sale, and that was the model lifeboat kit "Anne Letitia Russell" which is now marketed by Metcalf Mouldings.
 
Since then I have worked on other projects for both full kits and semi kits, and the three that will be the back bone of this build log will also eventually become full kits.
So, what does it take to design a kit from the ground up.......well, stick around, and hopefully I'll be able to show you the process...........a slow one but an enjoyable and rewarding one.
 
Firstly, you have to chose a subject that will not only inspire you to keep up the enthusiasm, but also one that might inspire others to want to buy the available kit once it has been released onto the market.
 
I think that the 3 that I have chosen to build here will both inspire and enthuse people to join our merry band and get involved in model boating.
 
So!! Bring it on!.
 
The three models that I have chosen, and had chosen some years ago were a continuation on a theme...three lifeboats (how did I guess, many will ask), and these have been worked on in small amounts for some six years now, between working on other projects for comissions, charity and some mayhem members!!, and have always had to take a back seat when a build has come along.
 
However as I am now in the final stage of the charity build, 9just waiting for the graphics to arrive ) I can see no more reasons to be interrupted by outside influences and so can get on with the builds with a clear mind.
 
The three subjects that I have chosen, 3 lifeboats are, in order of photographs ( and all built at 1:12 scale ),
 
1)   RNLB  Mary Stanford  (of Ballycotton station,) a 51' Barnett, "Stromness" class lifeboat,
 
2)   RNLB  H F Bailey  (of Cromer station)  a 46' Watson class lifeboat
 
3)   RNLB Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts ( of Beaumarris station) a 46' Watson class, and first boat in the RNLI to have central steering.
Pictures of the first two and sister boat to the third, shown below.
 
So, where does one start?
 
Plans of the boats were obtained either from the original station house that the lifeboat served at or from the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich.
What were needed were both G>A> (general arrangement) and line drawings for all the sections, profiles and plans.
 
And finally before I stop for the night, I'll just fast forward 6 years and put some pics up of the three models as they are in their present state, dusty, timbers curling from being stored in a damp out shed and cobwebbed.....much remedial work will be needed on the timbers but this is all part of the learning curve of modelling and life, lol
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wartsilaone

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 10:50:41 PM »

I shall be sticking around Neil. As a kit producer myself, albeit on a small scale or should I say in a small scale there is always things one can learn from other endeavours in this field. I am in the process of improving my instructions and that's the easy part. It is hard to appreciate how much harder it is to produce commercial kit as opposed to a Kit of parts which you make for a scratch built model.
It's the 'mass production' part that makes all the difference and has given me a few headaches.
I took D&R at school. I would have loved to have been in your class.

Ali.
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 10:58:36 PM »

Hi Neil

I am truly looking forward to your log. Re your opening question I can only answer as a newbie. Yes I was shocked when I first saw what kits cost - and that was without looking to see what was on offer inside inside the box. For that kind of money I would be always be asking for a recommendation from someone knowledgeable first. The one thing I would really expect is that the components actually fit - which from some posts on Mayhem it seems is not always the case.

Regards Dave
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HS93

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 11:13:54 PM »

if you want components to fit without trimming,  go airfix part of building a kit is the fitting of parts as long as there there is enough waist to cut of . it's not IKEA. some people expect them to be pre painted, I think everybody has there own view of what is a kit those of us brought up on Aerokits expect to do a lot of work, even the likes of MHB kits you have to do a lot of cutting and fitting but there are a lot of high grade parts. if you want every part to fit you have to pay a lot of money for someone to pre build it , then if you put something in the wrong place nothing else would fit anyway.
my opinion

Peter
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 11:20:12 PM »

you are all right, of course, and I have always equated a model kit to the question of "how many pints of beer could I buy for the same cost",

and then equate that cost and number to the amount of hours......... a) those beers give me when drinking them, ........and b) how many hours the kit gives me in building and then sailing it......

in that way, even a Speedline kit at £1000.00p works out very cheaply for what you get.

No kit is perfect in what it gives, or what it offers, but so long as the manufacturer has gone to the lengths of making it as good as he/she can, then the chances of the model being well received are greatly enhanced.
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 11:53:13 PM »

Hi Lads

Trimming wouldn't seem a problem but undersize or twist would. I appreciate that you just don't want to assemble something.
But that aside I also feel that 'fit for purpose' is part of any deal. If Neil goes to great pains to produce a good product, then it
is not unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to keep faith with him on quality control. Beyond that if a buyer isn't happy with
the quality of a product be it kit, fridge, or drill he will tell others and that doesn't promote sales.

Re airfix - I built them planes as a little kid and usually blew them up with bangers after a while - happy days - I haven't thought
of that in forty years.  :}

Dave
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HS93

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 12:06:06 AM »

Hi Lads

Trimming wouldn't seem a problem but undersize or twist would. I appreciate that you just don't want to assemble something.
But that aside I also feel that 'fit for purpose' is part of any deal. If Neil goes to great pains to produce a good product, then it
is not unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to keep faith with him on quality control. Beyond that if a buyer isn't happy with
the quality of a product be it kit, fridge, or drill he will tell others and that doesn't promote sales.

Re airfix - I built them planes as a little kid and usually blew them up with bangers after a while - happy days - I haven't thought
of that in forty years.  :}

Dave
I see you have moved on to industrial fireworks now ;D O0 O0 {-) %%

Peter
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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 09:22:34 AM »

Now this is one of the best reasons that I can think of for being a forum member. I am for free going to get the whole package in one from a guy that knows what he is doing, no BS. I will be watching non stop. I have never felt that good well packaged kits or other items I have purchased were not good value. Where I get upset is the deliberate attempt to defraud me by selling junk in a fancy package. Good on you Neil & thanks for taking the time to do this. Mick B. PS = A member of the Ballycotton crew back in the 30;s to the 50's is probably the most decorated crew member in life boat history, he served for 39 years & saved 115 lives correct me if I am wrong.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 12:35:24 PM »

you are welcome Mick.Hope we can meet one day.

So what does it take to be able to set up even the basics of a cottage industry in order to build a kit for public market.

A very very tollerant and understanding supportative wife or partner for a start, and then s goodly amount of capital, even for a small start.

I had luckily just had to retire on ill health grounds form my teaching career and had been paid a lump sum and a pension......it was a start.

The old asbestos garage was taken down and a new concrete garage, 12' x 22' was built in it's place in 1994.It was lined with timber battens, fibre glass insulation between walls and insulation boarding and the ceiling treated with the same. It was professionally wired with trip boxes, emergency stop switches and countless plug sockets, and once all done, the perimeter benches were all made by yours truly. £2800 was spent on the bare workshop before tools.

Then came the expenditure of tools, A Myford laithe, second hand, £750, a band saw, £450, pillar drill, scroll saw and sander/linisher ..£250 and the coupe' de gras was a visit to Alex Tiranti in Reading where I blew 1500 quid on a centifugal caster and all the plates rings and ancilliaries. Then the multiple hand power tools added another £500 before I even started building a model boat..........it's amazing what few tools you use when building on a kitchen or bedroom table before you realise that you need them for ease..

It didn't stop there........I needed a large drawing board so bought a "Double Elephant" sized piece of block board ( so that it wouldn't warp in the cold atmosphere when I shut shop down in an evening) and then bought a parallel slide "square" plus french curves, set squares, Rotring pens and draughting paper ( the none rip kind.......).....another 400 quid blown.

Then it was time to start planning the build.......I would need large boxes, small boxes, materials and oh of course screen prints for the printed wooden matter...those alone cost me £300 to have made by a professional.

All the above materials would have to be bought in bulk........a hundred boxes at a time, 400 quid, thin and thicker ply woods in bulk ( 30 sheets minimum of each thickness and there were 3 thicknesses on the Ann Letitia Russell, brass tubing by 50' a time when the boat used about 6" altogether, chain and white metal for casting......dowels by the 100' to get decent prices, obeche block wood for bits and pieces and plugs, and then as I thought at the time not capable of producing an industrial strength set of moulding( which I found when I was forced to work on a remould) after the "professional" moulds started falling apart and they cost me 400quid to have made for the original mouldings, it added up to another £1000.00.........and this was all before I had even started building a model let alone sell it.

Even after selling the original masters to Metcalf Mouldings and what little I recouped from the few that I originally sold, minus costs including a donation from each sale to the RNLI for them allowing me to use their charity number and logo on my boxes, I reckopn that to this day, I am still no where near ever recouping anywhere near the amount initially laid out, but that is the chance you take.

This also does not take into a ccount the hundreds and hundreds of hours taken in developing the model, writing the instructions as you go, having them proof read and then re typed, plus the initial drawings, draughts and re draws pefore you feel that the plans are suitable for puplication, and finally the costs of photocopying amultiple sets of plans and anything up to 40+ pages of instructions and binding them.......all of which costs money.

I still keep the reciepts just to show what a folley it can be and So it isn't for the faint hearted.

That is why I defend to the hilt almost anyone who tries to do the same, against those who think that it is a piece of cake putting a model kit together as though it's a snap decision, lol....they make me cry rather than angry, as those just don't have a clue.

I haven't bothered to add the total up as it would frighten me, but just imagine the outlay that such as Model Slipway and Metcalf Mouldings have to set just to keep their prices as low as they can....it is frightening, and I was doing it on a shoe string.

the garage conversion and shed for storage

My band saw and other main tools

Now you see it, now you don't..the drawing board is hinged and folds up to the ceiling when not in use, giving extra very usefull space behind.

and finally the most important part of my workshop..my tv and digi box, lol

And now I've got that age old gripe off my chest and displayed to those none believers that kit suppliers are some how ripping off the public with high prices.....please think again.

I can now get on with the build process.

thanks
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furball

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 02:04:37 PM »


Aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh!   I want one on each!! Now!!!  {-)  %%


Dribble....



Lance
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Liverbudgie

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 02:10:46 PM »

And I thought I was untidy.................

LB
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2011, 06:28:27 PM »

And I thought I was untidy.................

LB
WOT YOO MEAN?????............I tidied it up for the photo {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2011, 08:39:37 PM »

Neil - are your nostrils fitted with micro filters mate?
Top tip - all that workshop dust is fully disposable.  O0

Re reading post - I never really thought about all the original set up costs.

Dave
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2011, 10:13:07 PM »

it's a good job I didn't photograph the floor then %% %% %% %%
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shipmate60

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2011, 10:32:36 PM »

Neil,
Such a pity you spent all that money on equipment and there was none left for a dustpan and brush!!!    :} :}

Bob
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2011, 10:58:37 PM »

Neil,
Such a pity you spent all that money on equipment and there was none left for a dustpan and brush!!!    :} :}

Bob
{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-).even my young daughter won't do it for me, and she loves housework.......... <:( <:( <:( <:(

beginning to think this build log was a bad idea,  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 11:14:20 PM »

Those pictures remind me of the tombs in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt Neil - except there's not a Mummy in sight, let alone a Daughter....

Colin
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Talisman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »

Neil,
Carry on I don't think any of us are beyond learning so I look forward to the rest of your thread!

One thing i might pull you up on is your costings .. are they not somewhat conservative / or / 1994 prices ? If my bank manager got wind of your start up costs i might be answering some uncomfortable questions! ..

Having said that i hope there is no charge in pinching your drawing board idea ... I like it!

Keep going!
Regards,
Kim
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HS93

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2011, 01:08:10 AM »

Keep going Neil it is a warning to others to think first before going down the same route it is also a shame that it didn't pan out after seeing some of your builds now I see the amount of effort you put in to projects,it shows you need a lot of luck as well.

Peter
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irishcarguy

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 07:18:01 AM »

Hi Neil if you don't clean up that shop you might be meeting me sooner than you think. I will be arriving with a garbage can ( notice the American influence here) & a big broom & the dust will surely fly. HOW do you build such beautiful boats in that rats nest, & just think what you could do if you could actually move about.Then again may be not good to think too much. I rest my case, the prosecution has spoken. Mick B. PS = I bet the wife stays a long way away. LOL.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2011, 07:57:48 AM »

Those pictures remind me of the tombs in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt Neil - except there's not a Mummy in sight, let alone a Daughter....

Colin
in a stressfull pre school break up for christmas where the kids are running around like headless chucks.that quote colin, has had me in tears with laughter......thankyou......... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
daren't show it the misses though..she's been threatening to go in there for a spring clean for years......gawd....I'd never find anything again............HELP!!!!!

only joking about bad idea to post, lol
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stubbsy

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 08:29:44 AM »

daren't show it the misses though..she's been threatening to go in there for a spring clean for years......gawd....I'd never find anything again............HELP!!!!

thats why it took a while to find the severn  {-)

looks like another great project on the go neil, keep up the good work and we look forward to your word of wisdom and guidance :-))
stubbsy :-)
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CJ1

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 09:48:33 AM »

I notice you are very Safety conscious though, with a lifejacket on the lathe in case you feel you are going under!
keep up the good work,
Chris
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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2011, 10:21:24 AM »

I just love the adjusting bag FITTED to the cross feed on the lathe, obviously a new design feature. LOL. Mick B.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2011, 10:27:39 AM »

and I thought you lot were my friends..been thrown off worse sites you know..........I only ever get this abuse from my kids and my mates down the pub.............
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2011, 10:30:32 AM »

HOW do you build such beautiful boats in that rats nest,

that is a mystery to me also, Mick,  %% %% %%
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2011, 01:19:27 PM »

Well,............... So now I'll begin the build.

I'll be using photos of generic models to display my techniques, as I hadn't 6-7 years ago when I started building these moulds even heard of Model forums never mind joined them and so never took step by step builds of my models, and so will be using pics from different builds to illustrate what I mean.......please don't let me confuse you and if you need to ask questions then do ask.

Also I am always open to suggestions in order to improve my own techniques and knowledge. My way isn't the only way, but just the way I find easiest for my own buiding methods.so shout out loudly if you know a better way.

My intentions were when I designed my first lifeboat kit, was to bring a model to the public that even someone with limited experience and tools could actually built. I never expected someone to be able to diagonally plank a hull with complicated tunnels to line, or belting to construct on the bulwark edges of a classic lifeboat, nor did I expect someone to "plank" the cockpits of a classic lifeboat with thin strips of teak or mahogany to simulate those beautiful cabins, and so set about thinking how to make it easy for the modeller.

I also desided from the outset that the plans would be full exact size AND the instructions would be written by a modeller ( with the gift of the gab) for the modeller, in modelling terms.............and those concepts have remained with me to this day.......a boat easy to build with plans and instructions easy to read and understand. I hope that those concepts have born fruit, as I believe the Anne Letitia Russell (ALR as affectionally known ) is the highest selling model lifeboat on the market.....probably others will contradict, but hey ho.........I'm proud of her, and that is something that can't be taken from me.

So what did I decide about construction methods............I was going to make the hard bits from GRP and the rest of the build from good stout ply timbers and obeche'.

I had to begin somewhere and the first job was to construct a working plug of both the hull and the cabins out of some sort of material.

There have been numerous threads on forums as to what materials to use for a plug and believe me, I have probably tried all of them in my time, and will list, just for interest a couple of pro's and cons for each that I have used, but always remember that the finish you obtain on the plug, is the normally finished result on the master mould and the mouldings that go for sale to the public, and therefore if you want repetition of excellence you have to put in the time on the plug to attain this.just see here for what I mean....just astounding, but many many hours of hard work have paid off here. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31944.msg340701#new

1) keel and sections filled with polistyrene and skimmed with plaster of paris.........it's a quick initial method and a shape can be obtained easily, but it's messy, and I have never been able to get rid of the "ghosting" lines of the sections on the plugs and then an awfull lot of rubbing down on the master mould still leaves ghosting lines. My Interceptor 42' Pilot boat was made in this manner and the very faint lines could still be seen evenb after further work on the moulding that I took off for myself........I wouldn't use this method again.

2) solid bread and butter constructional carved hull in a timber such as obeche, samba or jelutong (balsa is far too soft a hardwood for this method in my opinion) has been used, and the finish you can get on these timbers as a plug is second to none.Modern pattern makers use these timbers now that Yellow pine ( the traditional timber for such) is virtually none existant at any reasonalbe price....last checked and it was twice the price of English Oak.I love this method on smaller hulls and the cabins, but on larger ones it becomes very unwealdy and heavy to turn around. However it is a method where the hull "stays where it is" .it doesn't twist in the process nor warp or bend and you get no distortion whilst building or carving.the only downside is that these wood's smell like old fish boxes when cut and carved....but living by the sea, that's an added bonus for me, lol. his can also be an expensive method of building

3) hollow bread and butter constructional carved hull, reasons are exactly the same as before, but less expensive if you jiggle the planks arround to get the greatest cuts from a board. Also the hull is far less heavy.heavy carving as with the method above also are tiring on the arms unless you use electric power carvers and planes to take off the vast amount of spare timber. But those two methods I strongly recomend.

4) there is a third method of this andd that is to set out on a building board the keel and frames, and then bread and butter each section, but this is a slow laborious method that I tried once, and to be honest it was a pain in the bum, and not to be recomended if you value your sanity.

5) use of MDF as a bread and butter "timber".yes, I have tried this method as well, and although some say that the dust caused can be a killer, ( literally as there are some who claim it is carsonagenic) it is the finish that is hard to achieve....No matter how many coats of varnish and sealant you put on MDF, as soon as you try to get a mirror like finish with wet and dry, used wet, the MDF soaks up the water you are using to lubricate the carborundum paper, and I found this method a pain also, and wouldn't recomend that either.

6) Every one's favorite method......POF or Plank on Frame with plenty of polyester filler to fill in the gaps.It is relatively quick and easy and I normally use obeche end blocks for the bow and stern, and this method is the one I used for the three boats I am going to build here.Because the plug isn'rt going anywhere other than the skip once you have produced the master mould from it, the planking can to some extents and purposes be as rough or as good as you want to make it, as long as you have plenty of filler to hand.It is a method that is light and easy to handle and also doesn't cost much to produce, unlike those B & B methods with Obeche and such, and for reasonable sized plugs, sop long as every thing is bolted down to a strong building board when construction is taking place to stop twisting, it is a good quick method., and usually gets my vote.

So on to the build itself.

First job is to get hold of a set of plans for the boat you want to build, including G A (general arrangement ) and line plans for the sections and keel, from which photocopies of the frame sections can then be cut and glued onto the ply wood boarding , and in this case 6mm birch faced ply.

Once cut these are mounted onto a base board to hold firm whilst planking. ( sorry but here are some generic models showing the sections and planking).

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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2011, 01:59:08 PM »

Progressing on, the next part of the build is to detail the plug.

One of the most striking parts of the hull of an old classic lifeboat is the defence belting around the bulwark edge of the hull. This was placed around the boat to protect against coming along side a casualty ( read any old book on RNLI rescue and you will realise that even with these well built wooden boats this belting always took a pounding) and was built in layers, as is the belting on the model. It has to be cut semi through to take up the different curves of the hull shear line plus curviture of bow and stern.

Also placed on the hull at this stage are the markings for the "A" bracket positions, the Prop tube openings in the tunnels and the bilge keels.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2011, 02:30:43 PM »

You'll see on the  next to last picture that the height deck of the boat has been raised by about 6,, with a piece of MDF. this goes all around the hull raising it. The reason being that when moulding the extension will give a mould a little higher than needed, and this is to give an edge to the mould that is full of resin, and not whispy or feathery as they can be when approaching the edge of a mould.

Some people  do, when moulding lay a full plate onto the top of the boat at deck level which allows you to mould onto it to form a flange from which you can trim the top of the hull.

Unfortunately with this mould, (as you will see later when I show pics of the moulds) you will see the reason why I can't do it on this 4 piece split mould.
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irishcarguy

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2011, 06:43:18 PM »

You know this is in pure fun & you have made yourself a very easy target, LOL. You are actually amazing at building, I wish I lived near you, I would have you really fired up, & I can guarantee if I was there the workshop would be organised. In our house I am the tidy one. My better half works on the layered effect, ie=anything that is flat can fit on top of anything else that is flat, how high it goes is optional. When she visits her mother a lot of things disappear,"no dear I never saw it" is my standard reply.The MOM visits have reduced a lot. This is going to be a thread for the ages, I can feel it coming on now. Again thank you. Mick B.
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Mick B.

nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 10:47:43 AM »

thanks mick...your good lady sounds like me, lolif there's a flat surface, I cover it, lol.....usually with dust, it waits so long %% %% %% %% %%
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:52:04 AM by nhp651 »
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2011, 10:48:24 AM »

Well onto the next bit. The cabins............I try to work in time and motion mode and do the same sort of jobs all at the same time, and then if it's a nice job I enjoy it all and if it's a monotonous work then I get the monotony over in one fell swoop.

As I'm working on the belting and filling it to get the shape as shown on the profile from the plans, I start working also on the timber work for the plugs for the cabins. All my cabins are made from bread and butter solid timber. Obeche by preference, and I buy this from a local timber merchant......it seams that these days I am the only person in the area to buy the obeche from them, and although there is enough stock to last me my lifetime they haven't bought any now for more than 8 years.....it's well seasoned, and the best part about it is...they still charge me the price that it was when they bought it in 8 years ago......now that's a bargain, lol.............and it's about half the price of a relative piece of every day soft builders pine wood. Brilliant!!!

I cut the profile and plan of the timber for the shape of the cabins from a spare set of plans that I always copy to cut to pieces, I glue the cut boards for the cabins together using G cramps and spring clamps, and use an Aliphatic resin for a good bond, but I never plane the surfaces of the timber when I sandwich them together for gluing, just sand them lightly on the linisher.....I find no point as they will be filled anyway once set, and once the timber has been cut roughly to over size by a couple of mm all round to facilitate sanding, I set too with chisels, gouges and my favorite tool, my trusty spokeshaves....I have two sorts, a flat and a curved sole spokeshave, and wouldn't be without them for finer carving. I must point out here that I make the bottom thickness of the cabin overr sized in deapth to allow for moulding and also to allow shaping the bottom of the cabin to the sheer shape of the deck once fitted.

Once down to the good basic shape, any undulations or gaps in the timber is filled with polyester filler, and more sanding takes place with both power palm sander and hand held sheet , beginning with 40 grade grit, working down to a finer 120 grade.

Once the final shape is achieved I seal it with cellulose sealer, using many coats. This also goes for the hull which will have reached this stage also by now. Once the timber has been sealed, I give it multiple coats of filler spray and then grey undercoat from a spray can.

You can then see any minuter scratches left by the sanding and this can be filled with cellulose surface putty which is a scratch filler used by moror repair shops and avaiable at Halfords and such places. A tip here..you don't use a great deal when using on a model and it tends to gom hard in the tin once opened to air. after using it and putting it away for a while, I pour into the tin a thin layer of cellulose thinners. It keeps it nice and useable.

This is all now wet and dried down starting with 240 grade working up to 800 - 1000 grade carburundum paper, used wet to give a mirror finish to the plug. Finally it is given a couple of coats of polyurethane varnish which is again wet and dried down to give a good finish for moulding.......It all takes time but remember........... the finish that you get on your plug is the finish you have on the master mould, and is only as good as that plug with all the hard work. Moulds can be titivated up after wards, but there is no substitute for hard work. Estimated time to build a plug and cabins is around 140 hours from start to finish.the last shots shows the finish I try to aim for.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:59:27 AM by nhp651 »
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carlmt

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2011, 05:20:03 PM »

Dont mind if I tag along for the ride do you Niel?

Having just started on this adventure myself, i am always keen to learn off the experts!!!!!

Not sure I could build the FEV plug out of solid wood though - my carving skills are not up to it..........but I am getting a very dab hand at applying filler and sanding it back off again.....

Carl
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2011, 07:03:44 PM »

Dont mind if I tag along for the ride do you Niel?

Having just started on this adventure myself, i am always keen to learn off the experts!!!!!

Not sure I could build the FEV plug out of solid wood though - my carving skills are not up to it..........but I am getting a very dab hand at applying filler and sanding it back off again.....

Carl
of course you can Carl........and that's what your right hand is for.......applying plenty of filler.......I make no bones about it....where would I be without body filler.......a must for modellers.......long gone are the days of plastic wood, lol
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2011, 09:41:50 AM »

After much work preparing the plugs for taking GRP it is now down to the preparation of making a mould capable AND SUITABLE of producing multiple mouldings before needing replacement.

It is imperative that on any plug, there is a good build up of a protective layer between the plug itself and the layers of GRP/polyester resin that go to make up the mould. Polyester resin will eat into any surface unless there is a barrier to stop it doing so and this process has to be halted when mould making or everything will just become one mass.

To stop this a first barrier is obtained by waxing the surface of the plug. this is done in subsequent layers of a release agent wax........not just any wax, as most use silicons in their make up, and this will react with the polyester resins and form a breakup of the surface layers that come into contact with a silicon based wax and this results usually in a rippling or orange peel effect. NO!, the release wax to be used is a special none silicon based product, and I buy mine (as all my supples from Glasplies in Southport: http://www.glasplies.co.uk/ )

Release agent wax:

I will usually give my plugs a minimum of 6 - 8 layers of this wax, polishing off thoroughly between each layer to build up a beautiful and resilient shine and coating on the plug.



Next job is to prepare my working area, and put my most important item in good clear view, for self explanetory reasons, as any distraction can cause mayhem, lol

I then arange a good clear working space with plent of access all round the plug and arrange my "tools of the trade".....my containers for resin, measuring bottle for catylist, weigh scales for resin , my stippling brushes, and my scissors for cutting the matting when needed. Some people use metal ridged rollers for rolling in the resin into matting, and although I have used them for larger projects in the past( 16' canoes) I tend to find that on a 51" mould they are more trouble than they are worth and so don't use them for close in work. However I do use a variety of thicknesses and sizes of brushes to get into tight little corners and gaps.
And finally the chart for calculating the amount of catylist per resin needed for each mix.

Next it will be on to preparation of the plug for actual moulding.

The table for catylist to hardener is set at recommended ratio fro working in an ambient temperature of 60 degrees farenhiet.......if working ina temperature lower than that then this can be increased by upto 15% with no ill effects to the moulding proceedure, but no more really as it will make the curing process "artificial" and a brittle cure can happen to the mould.


« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:47:04 AM by nhp651 »
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