Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[RaaArtyGunner]

I can't believe Neil baked rock cakes just to have a one line joke 
Now that shows real dedication to his thread 

Probably had no flour so used workshop dust 

Dave

Is this an example of quote between a rock and a hard place 

[Norseman]

the one big question is......what are you doing up at half past one in the morning, thinking about cakes.........GET A LIFE MAN!!!

Neil 01:30 feels like 11:30am to me - I am a night worker 99% of the time (that is why I fell over on X'mas daytime - I've only got night vision mate).
So even when I am off work on hols I go to bed about six and get up at ten. Any more sleep than that and I get a headache

Dave

[nhp651]

a night owl.............. .....well, sorry mate..........i'm now just  off to bed, can hardly keep my eyes open, so going to hit the sack....see ya tomorrow with an update...might even get some building done tomorrow instead  of just gassing about it all, lol
neil.

[nhp651]

Well, I suppose I've whinged on enough about how much effort and preparation plus the big expense it takes to get a model kit off the drawing board and into production to put off all of the most hardenned nutters in the game that there are only three more jobs to do  before the kit can be marketed.One is to write the set of instructions, and this is written ( i myself do it in long hand with all measurements taken and step by step process AS I ACTUALLY BUILD IT) and then convert onto the computor with spell check ON, and draw all the diagrammes for construction (free hand at first and then convert onto A3 drawings to begin with.finally reducing size on a photocopier to fit 4 or more to an A4 size sheet, draw the full size working drawings with all fittings corrulated to the list of parts on the instructions page, and finally build the prototype model from all the sums of the parts.

the build time of the model itself is probably a little longer than the average builder will build the kit...say about 600 hours.making sure that all parts fit, another 50 hours to write the instructions, convert them onto the computer( that includes the sectional working drawings of all the parts and another 20 - 30 hours to do draghts of the plans and then final working drawings.
And there you have it.....I haven't totted up the total amount of hours spent on developing a kit, nor what you would be charged if a "professional" on "professional wages" such as  mechanic at your local garage would charge.................I don't want to frighten myself, never mind others who would want to start up in the "game"............I'll let you do that, lol.

But I'll now get down to just building the three prototypes.

As all of the models I have built in the past ( and I do not count the Rother class lifeboat that Dave Metcalf produces, as I had no input into that model what so ever but it is included in this next statement)......... they are all of what we call the "Classic double ender" lifeboat era, from the mid 1920's up until the final Rother was produced in 1982 and all used certain generic parts to their builds, and as such certain fittings from one model can be used on another boat with reasonable scale correctness.

Although certain minor differences might occur they are not too great that  (say for instance) the stanchions on the Rother can be used for the Barnett, and the "A" frames for the tail shafts on the Rother can be used for the Watson class 46' boats, and also used with these brackets, the feet from the little Liverpool class boat can also be used for the Watson on the ends of the Rother A frames.

It makes life a little easier and for all but the very purist in lifeboats( and that is why I try to stick with the classics rather the modern fast afloat boats) if brings the old classic lifeboat into the relms of the model builder who would normally be put off by trying to manufacture those difficult parts like the beltiing and propeller tunnels.

Also as more of these classics are developed, the more the range of fittings are available to build into them, and to be honest, with the final sets that are to go on these three boats, there will be very few fittings now left that aren't available to build the type of boat you desire.

[nhp651]

So, finally to the build.

First job will be to clean all the moulding marks from the belting and the keel and stem/stern posts ( of which I have omitted to do on the prototypes at the moment.

Next is to fit the running gear of prop shafts,A frames and then rudders.

I found that I only had one set of brackets for the  Watson, and had had to in the past, make up a new set ( as there were no generic ones to fit ) for the Barnett, Mary Stanford....and so I'll just run through the steps to make a set of brackets first. these would also be normally cast in white metal after moulding.

Take a round of brass to make the bearing that will be inserted into the boss of the A bracket, and using a laithe, drill the centre with the diameter of the propeller shaft, ( in this case 4mm) and then shape the bearing in the laithe, putting on a flange at one end, and the outer diameter to ( in this instance) 6mm. set aside.
Take a round of brass for the hub of the bracket boss, and centre drill for the hole to take the bearing, which will be a 6mm hole to take the 6mm outside diameter of the bearing. The bearing will then eventually slide into the boss.

Shape the boss in the laithe to that shown on the set of plans, use carburundum tape to clean up, and then using a parting tool, cut off the boss from the brass round. Repeat this process for the second boss for  it's twin A frame.

Take some length of flat bar ( or if needed shape the bar with a file,/grinder/sander if you want to get the profile of the legs exactly as per boat....but that's for the purist) and jigging up, silver solder the legs to the boss at the correct angle required on the plans. cut the legs to fractionally over length, and set aside for a few minutes.

Take a length of nylon rod about 10mm longer than the length of the boss......this is to go through the boss of the A frame which will go into the rubber mould with the A frame assembled.

Make a rubber mould from two layers of RTV rubber as in the pictures, using lego boxes and plastecine for the process of moulding.

The box is made and a layer of plastecine is put into the box...............the part to be moulded is pressed into the plastecine half way ( this is the process, using RTV rubber for any fitting part) and the round of nylon is moulded in the rubber.Also small impressions are made into the plastecine for locating pins to form in the rubber, in order to stop the mould from sliding later when moulding, ( thus giving an overlapped mould, which would be useless)

Rubber is poured into the exposed half of the fitting and alowed to set, usually overnight.

Once set, the plastecine is removed to expose the unmoulded half and the exposed rubber of the first half is sprayed with a release agent, so thet the two halves of the mould won't stick together. Pour into the seconf half the RTV rubber again to finally cover the master that you have made.

Once cured, remove the rubber from around the master revealing a berfect female mould of your master.

Cut track ways for the metal to flow in, airways for the trapped air to escape, take the nylon out of the master and put back into the rubber mould, put the mould between a sandwich of two pieces of 4- 6 mm ply , hold together with clamps and pour into the access hole your white metal......allow to cool and then remove the moulding from the mould.............remove the nylon rod from the mouylding....and Hey presto...you have an A frame with a hole running through it for the bearing.

The process is shown below for making an A frame in pictures.  the brazing hearth is a constitute material called Vermiculite and obtained from such a place as this... 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Mat-Pad-Brick-Board-Brazing-Hearth-/120799566544?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D260898624510%26ps%3D54                   

  and is very cheep for what it is..can be cut with a saw, made into any shape and is just superb for brazing.

[nhp651]

Next step is to insert the running gear into the  tunnels, and this is done in the usual way of making a first drill hole centrally as to where the prop shaft is going to exit the hull, and elongate it using a smaller serated drill bit so that the prop tube will lie true to the A btacket and not "bind" the shaft.

slight alterations have to be made on the A frames used from the Rother class for the Watson..the feet moulded onto the frames are cut off in favour of flange brackets from the liverpool class boat which fit over the legs.

Shown in pictures below.

[CF-FZG]

Neil, I think I got it after the second post, 4 is a bit of overkill

Just a thought, have you thought of using 'oilite' for the bearing/bush in the A-frame??


Mark.

[nhp651]

hi matey..  it's this 504 gateway time out  thingy............... sorry . what a pain!!!.....

will delete them and ask the mods to delete the bits not needed.......it's a pain......as for oilite, not heard of that .can you post a link please.

cheers,
neil.

[Netleyned]

Manufacturers name for what you probably know as sintered bushes Neil

Ned

[nhp651]

cheers, guys.............will have a search for those.
neil..........I used sintered bronze for the first time ever...and didn't know what I was using, ( some one had given me a lump of it years ago.) when it kept ooozing oil, on the master for the ship's bel for the Clyde lifeboat........lovely stuff to work with though, must say.

[CF-FZG]

Oilite is 'oil impregnated sintered bronze' ideal for prop shaft bushings

It's available in stock sizes - e.g. 4mm id 8mm od 10mm long, (flanged or plain), custom, or maybe better for you as bar stock.

TBH, it might be best if you google it, as I've just looked and there are pages of suppliers in the UK and a few of them are requesting 'submit for quotes' type thing.


Mark.

[nhp651]

cheers Mark.......will have a look.

I think I'll look into that for my own boats for the future, but for a kit I feel that the bearings would have to be kept as per kit, the simplest of manufacturing methods. And as the prop shafts are farmed out to an engineering company, for the cheepest way of production they would have to be kept as brass bearings.

neil.

[nhp651]

After the propellor shafts and A frames have been dry fitted the next process is to make the rudders for both types of boats.

Although the rudder for the Mary Stanford is a simpler rudder to make in that it is made from just one piece of 4mm birch faced  ply wood cut to shape as per plan, it has a complicated fixing set as it hinges onto the stern post and is steered by a slide mechanism from a pivot on a hidden servo, and so will attempt that one after the holiday period when the kids have gone back to school and I can spend a couple of hours on it.

However the rudders for the two Watsons are of a normel type with top and bottom rods fixed into the rudder blade and pivotted through both the boat's hull and the rudder skeg.

To make the rudder, I do as I always do,with any boat, make it in three layers of material, in this case a core of 3mm birch faced ply, and an outer skin both sides of 1.8 mm birchfaced ply.

I bend an arm for the steering rod at right angles so that it can't twist inside the rudder, and cut a corresponding slot into the inner centre core to accomodate the rod. A straight cut is made in the bottom of the core piece to take the bottom pivot....and then the three layers are glued together using 2 part epoxy with the two rods sat firmly inside, niether of which will move.

The rudder skegs for the two watsons, although different shapes will also be built in the same way, with either brass or plastic tubing sunk into the bottom of the skeg for the rudder pivot bar to sit into eventually.

see the photos below.

[nhp651]

Today was spent constructing the two different rudder skegs for the Watson lifeboats.

They were both made from a core of 6mm birch faced ply sandwiched between two layers of 1.8mm birch faced ply, and glued together with a waterproof glue. they are also seen with the rudders in place which also were made in the same way of sandwiched timber.

The skegs were drilled with a 4.5mm drill bit to take a sheath of plastic tube which will be the housing in the skeg for the lower rudder rod, and also which will be set into a block of timber inside the boat to support another length of plastic tubing for the upper rudder rod.

[RaaArtyGunner]

Is there any particular reason why the hull keel was not "extended" to eliminate the "wood" block at the end of the rudder skeg as per the other example.
Was pondering these pieces and how they fitted, which is now clearer, and no, I know absolutely nothing about lifeboats, except they are a very popular modelling subject.

[nhp651]

arhhh, now you 've got me there, RaaArty.........Because I'm using the same hull for the two different boats, ( and the two boats were designed on the same hull so no problems there) I have had to extend the grp Keel for the second boat that has the Block of wood as the wooden Keel in order to get the rudder in the correct possition.

Originally I was going to build two boats (they all use the same Watson hull) one with the keel that doesn't have the lump of wood on it, and on the second boat that area that has been cut out was going to have a piece of ply reset into it to re instate the keel all the way back to the stern post, and an external traditional rudder was going to be set onto a rudder bar which hangs onto  the end of the stern post (as in the picture of a barnett I built in part a while ago).

However when I saw the pictures of the second boat I am now building I decided to build that one instead.

This boat, though has an extended keel/rudder skeg that protrudes further out from the stern post for design purposes to protect her when launching down a slip, and because the skeg is set further back, so is the rudder, and this left a gap between the moulded GRP keel and the measurements for the placement of the rudder, and so this has had to be filled with ply.

Once it has been set. it will be faired into the keel with polyester car body filler, and match up to the particular plans of that boat.

so basically just utilising one mould and set of mouldings to make two different arrangements of keels.

hope this explains the discrepancies in the wooden keel skegs.

the pics below are what the second watson was going to be like, rudder arrangement wise, before I changed it for the one you talk about, and as such the keel would have needed extending all the way with timber. As it is, just a little extra is now needed on the rudder keel skeg.

neil.

[nhp651]

Of course all these pieces of timber are now drawn around and put on their relative sheets for future screen printing ( or even possible laser cutting) for the kit.

[furball]

Ahh, the fun of modelling 1930's - 1950's lifeboats....

The RNLI basically asked each station what they wanted on there boats, and so, especially on the Watsons, every damn one was different! Some had internal rudders, some had external rudders. At least two had internal rudders but no deadwood protection around them (like Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts above, but with nothing surrounding the rudder), and then some were built with internal rudders but later converted to external rudders, leaving a large hole in the deadwood (apparently this was because the boats steered somewhat better with external rudders. All the later 46'9" Watsons, the later 52' Barnetts and all the 47' Watsons have external rudders.

One of the documents we've got at Chatham is the parts lists (with diagrams - most useful!) for the steering gear for a lot of the 40's & 50's boats. For those with external rudders it's interesting to note that rudder posts (the square shaft that the rudder slides up and down on) are almost always unique lengths for every single boat - even within the same class! 1/2" shorter here, 3/4" longer there, an each boat was basically hand built. It must have been a nightmare for the RNLI stores to keep track of everything.

Lance

[nhp651]

That's interesting Lance...something that I didn't know..........but when you think about it, with so many yards building the same class of boat, from natural naterials it is only to be expected really........the total accuracy of one set of builders in one yard would not be the same as in another, and even between boats........so presumably they were all fitted as per what was needed when repaired or built.

It is modellers licence then, that one boat need not be the same as another.....lol............makes the whole job a lot easier to argue your corner against rivet counters, lol

[RaaArtyGunner]

Neil,
Thanks for that, gathered as much, but not knowing about lifeboats, walked where angels feared to tread, but hey us Aussies can handle it.
Thanks again.

[nhp651]

no probs......mind you, with your rescue service taking quite a few of our ex lifeboats, there's no excuse for you not to build a model of one now......

so come on, get to that bench and lets see a nice Waveney in Nedd Lloyd colours emerging next spring, lol..........you know you want to, 

[nhp651]

The skegs have been dry fitted now, the plastic inserts put into the skegs and blocks to take the rudder tubes have been drilled, inserts placed in and rudder bars cut to length ready for tomorrow when I'll pin them from both inside and outside with 2mm brass pins to both locate and keep them straight and true whilst gluing with 2 part liquid epoxy.

The Hulls have also been sanded to get rid of all moulding lines and levelled the bulwark tops off.

The support block for the rudder tube is made from obeche and a piece of the same , size included, along with a length of plastic tubing has also been set aside ready to go into a parts bag for each boat, for later collation when putting the part for the kits together.

the obeche block will be set onto the hull of the boat using polyester body filler to give a firm watertight grip between block and hull.

[nhp651]

Some say that scratch building hones the little grey cells to think laterally, others say it's the mother of all inventions.

Even more so when you are also trying to make it an easy build for others to copy.

Well, I hit a problem.......or perhaps a quandry this afternoon when trying to fit the skegs, with all locating pins in position and the rudder in possition as well................it just wouldn't fit.

But the pins are needed to hold firm and make sure that if the skeg gets knocked when sailing, it wouldn't part company with the grp hull.

So I thought a while and then decided that the two pins that were causing the problem and not allowing the skeg to "drop" into possition were the two horrizontal pins on each boat that fit into the vertical face of the end of the grp keel. If I could overcome this problem but keep those pins, all would be fine.

A bit more thinking and looking at the holes already drilled and I thought that if these drill holes became a slot in the end of the keel for the pins to fall into, the problem would be solved, as the slot could then, on glueing the skeg in place, be filled with 2 part epoxy whilst gluing the rest of each skeg in possition.

So, having already drilled the holes, I re inserted the drill bit into the top hole, and then keeping the drill spinning turned the drill bit upwards to ream out the hole into a slot.Likewise I did the same with the bottom hole and joined that up with the top hole which has already become the slot.
Now, with one downward motion, the skeg, and rudder can be pushed into possition and glued up, and held in place with tape and clamps until set.

However the wooden parts are now off to the "paint bay" to be given several coats of sanding sealer and rubbed down with wire wool ready for when the boat is sprayed up later.

The photos show firstly the marking up and then the pins set into the skeg, plus the slot.

[RaaArtyGunner]

Neil,
A thought, what would be the result, if the two pins in the "slot", were replaced by a flat material such as Brass.

The flat material would reinforce the joint between skeg and keel.

[furball]

You'd still need a slot for one of the axes though, as the reinforcing bits (whether they be pins or bar) are at 90 degrees to each other.

Holes for pins are easier to drill in the wood as well.


Lance

[nhp651]

Neil,
A thought, what would be the result, if the two pins in the "slot", were replaced by a flat material such as Brass.

The flat material would reinforce the joint between skeg and keel.

I understand what you are saying, raaArty, and if I were doing this for myself I would probably go down that road.......BUT, it is going to be a kit at the end of the day, and when cottage industry manufacturers get into the realms of having to produce small squares of brass in the pakage for the kit, it then starts to ( even with such small items) complicate the production run of them. It is far easier to put a length of 2.4mm brazing rod into the package than have to stop, and cut some plates of brass.
However I appreciate the idea, and will have a look at the idea , but the brass would have to be of similar thickness to 2.4 to have any strength............but I do see your point, cheers..thinking cap on now.

And a good point there too Lance..don't know whether it would weaken the ply ( doubt it) but to get a slot in grp is easier than in ply.
neil.

[RaaArtyGunner]

Neil,

Some after thoughts, understand KISS and not over complicate materials etc.

As  the problem is that the fixing holes/dowels are at right angles to each other two alternatives spring to mind.

1. Use flat plate material instead of round material. Slots are more forgiving than drilling a series of holes on a centre line. Maybe thinner ply would suffice for the flat material.

2. Use round dowels such as brass for the dowels but have the dowels in the same plane, that is parallel to each other, do this by drilling the holes at say 45 degrees to the surface, that way they are parallel to each other and slot into their holes.

A lot harder than the flat plate slot option.

[nhp651]

using ply would work, as there will be an ample supply of scrap 1.8 or even 3mm ply in the kit, and I'll make mention of that as an alternative in the instructions to the 2.4mm rod pins.
fair comment, and hadn't thought of ply or that method.
However, the drilling of all holes at 45 degrees wouldn't work because you still have the lower rod of the rudder to slip into a hole which is at right angles to the skeg and it is this location that hinders the locating of the other pinsall at the same time.
I had thought originally of putting the pins into the skeg from the inside of the boat, where it fits the flat area of the hull aft of the tunnels, but you still have the rudder bar at the bottom, and you can't get this in unless the slot is fitted to the aft end of the keel...............sort of 3 different pinning processes in one, and that was the initial problem.
neil.

[nhp651]

the rudder skegs have now all been located, and glued in place.
Even though the rudder bar is running in plastic tubing to aid smooth movement, I have still injected into the plastic guide tubes a mixture of vaseline/carbon powder to aid lubrication and barrier against water ingress.
The skegs were all glued with 2 part epoxy. I have also written into the instructions the alternative method of fixing the lower leading edge of the wooden skegs on H F Bailey and Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts with a biscuit of 1.8 mm ply as suggested by our ozzie friend RaaArtygunner..........Pondered it last night for some time and on how to cut the slot rather than drilling out and agreed that it was a good idea.

The method of cutting I thought of instead of drilling out would be to use a saw and cut in to the wooden skeg and the keel leaving a triangular section in each, into which a right angled triangular piece of ply could be glued and fitted. Thanks for the idea, RR

The only reason I didn't use it on these two models is that I'd already stuck the pins into the wooden skeg with epoxy before the suggestion and didn't want to damage the skeg by trying to remove them in favour of a sawn slot, which will accomodate a triangular biscuit.

As I said earlier, certain fittings can be used on similar boats, and the white metal skeg used on the earlier designed Anne Letitia Russell, can be used on the Mary Stanford, as I have done. However it is a little thinner than the M.S.'s keel and so sandwiches of 1.8 mm ply on both sides of the white metal rudder skeg have been cut, drawn onto the screen prints and then glued into place using 2 part epoxy and clamped.

The pictures below show, mary Stanford, field Marshall and Mrs Smuts and H F Bailey, respectively.

I shall now wait for it all to set, and then clean of exess epoxy, and fill all parts with filler....reminds me, I've run out......off to the car factors for some more..better a big tin this time.lol

[nhp651]

The final part of the Mary Stanford Rudder skeg arrangement has been fitted..........the false stern post that the rudder up/downhall brackets will be attached too, but these, being vulnerable to knocks and brakage if fitted at this point will be fitted later in the build. The stern post was made from 3mm ply and  glued and pinned with 2.4mm brazing rod before being filled and later sanded smooth with polyester filler.

Next will be fitting the prop shafts and "A" frames on all three boats.

[nhp651]

This was the part I was dreading most, as getting these things lined up in the tunnels is probably one of the most important processes of making a classic lifeboat, and has to be close on perfect to get the maximum out of the propellers, which are limited in size anyway to the inner dimensions of the tunnel. the sizes are laid down anyway by the  class of lifeboat anyway, and the prop shafts have to run true down the tunnels.

To start with, I assembled the prop tube/shaft with the "a" bracket and the end locking nut for the propeller. I had already glued the bearing into the "A" bracket ready and made sure that the shaft rotated in the bearing with ease.

I have also found that these assemblies have a tendency to slide around all over the place and never stay in one possition.ie, the tube will creep up the shaft and then the whole thing is out of position when glued, so I have in the past, and here, locked the prop tube onto the shaft at the desired position with masking tape.......easily removeable once the job is finished and glued up.

Starting with a pilot hole in the centre of a raised piece on the moulding and enlarging to an oval allows the prop tube to sit in neatly.

As the tube is locked in position to the shaft, the only thing now that is moveable on the shaft is the "A" bracket, which is put into place at the tail of the shaft, and close to the raised markings on the tunnel that correspond with the approximate position of the bracket. The  bracket is rotated untill the shaft is centred in the tunnel, and the centre of the shaft is at the correct hieght above the top of the tunnel wall ( as depicted on the plans) and then the possition of where the legs meet with the tunnel wall is marked in pencil. The whole assembly is then removed and the markings of contect between legs and tunnel are covered with masking tape.
 Onto the legs are placed the "feet"....white metal brackets that make gluing contact with the tunnel, and also house the legs in a slot. Two part epoxy is then applied to the ends of the legs and the whole assembly is put back into position, making sure that the feet to the legs glue and set whilst touching the tunnel.....they will then be left to set for an hour, whilst working on the next boat in exactly the same way, but with different brackets and shaft lengths for the two watsons in comparrison with the Barnett........Mary Stanford.

Once set, the feet are drawn around with pencil to reviele when the assembly is removed again, a square.

The square marks the gluing area, and I now, using a 1.5mm drill bit drill multiple holes on the inside of this square to give a "keying area" got the adhesive to cling into. I also drill some holes into the feet and the ends of the legs of the "A" bracket for the same "key". Remove the masking tape

Mixing some polyester filler I put some into the leading and trailing edge of the oval which takes the prop tube into the hull at the forward end of the tunnel and also a liberal amount ( it can always be taken off when set) onto the bottom of the feet which make contact with the tunnel wall.

The assembly is put into the hull at the correct possition and the feet make upto the tunnel wall in ( by now ) the exact pre determined position. it is held in this position with masking tape until the filler sets and cures.another hour, whilst I can turn my attention to the next boat.

Finally turning each boat upside down I can now fill around the entry holes where the tubes come into the hull with polyester filler. Whilst doing this, you'll see the area where the filler has squeezed through from the base of the feet......this area can be reinforced with some more filler to bond all that has been used to glue the "A" bracket into the hull. set aside to cure before taking the prop shafts out to clean up around the base of the feet with abrasive paper.

[nhp651]

Finally all three boats together showing the different rudder arrangements.

That process only took 4.5 hours from start to finish, and although they say the camera never lies....the shots show the skegs all over the place and the prop tubes totally uneven..........was mortified when I saw the shots.....can assure you, they are all set even, straght and level..............think I'll buy a new camera, lol

[furball]

A couple of tips (hope I'm not teaching people to suck eggs here   )

If dealing with separate shafts as you've got above, I cut a couple of scraps of ply as spacers and drill a couple of holes in each the correct distance apart for the shafts with a diameter as the prop shafts. I then bolt the shafts to these spacers with the nuts that come with the shafts, so they're held together as a rigid pair. Of course, the ply spacer on the outside has to be a bit of a funky shape, as it's got to go  up and over the keel, which can hold the shafts centrally in the tunnels - the inside one can be a simple strip about half inch wide. All you have to worry about then is the fore and aft adjustment.

What I do if I've got a grp hull and I'm soldering up my own A frames is cheat - and make both A frames as one unit, which is sort of a \o---o/ shape. These are the correct distance apart for both shafts. You can then fix the shafts to the A frame unit, making sure they're parallel. This makes them one rigid unit. I then cut a piece out of the hull in the deadwood from the keel up to where the cross piece of the A frame is, epoxy the shafts & A frame unit in, and then glue the piece cut out of the hull back in again, reinforcing the inside with grp tape and resin so that it's water tight, and filling any view of the cuts on the outside. You can dummy up the feet which normally hold the A frames on with bits of plasticard. This makes the shafts absolutely solid, and I've done this on at least 5 boats with absolute success.

It's easier to do than explain, and I hope that I've got the idea across. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll work with the wooden hull that I'm working with at the moment.

Lance

[nhp651]

good ideas, lance especially  the one regarding the disc for the propeller spacing......and I'll incorporate that into the instructions.

I know what you mean about the frames too, but the frames for the Watsons are already there ( they are the same ones for the Rother...............) the brass pair in the picture were just a couple I knocked up because I only had one set of Rother white metal ones..Having said that, as the kit would be aimed for even the lesser experienced modeller as well as the experienced........I don't think that they would want to start cutting great chunks out of the "deadwood" on a GRP moulding and then start to have to replace it with reinforced grp matting and resins........even some experience modellers shy away from grp work.
neil.

[nhp651]

next job on the hull is to fix the bilge skegs and keels.

They are quite heafty articles on the real boats, to act as protection for the hull and propellers and made of good stout stuff that will take heavy knocks and veen grounding in certain cases especially when such Coxs'ns as Henry Blogg of Cromer was in charge....he had a habit of running his lifeboats onto the decks or into the split hulls of the casualty that he was attempting to rescue.....hence his 3 gold medals and countless others to his credit for bravery and fine sea man ship.
So my normal way of fixing a bilge keel of splitting the hull longitudinally with a jick saw was out the question , not only for the general kit builder, but also because they are made from a representative thickness of 6mm ply, and being four of them in such close proximity I felt that this would deform and weeken the grp hull if 4 splits each of 6mm wide and as long as they are were to be cut into the hull.
I therefore decided to use my second choice of fixing them and that is to pin the skegs with 2.4mm brazing rod and drill through the hull, gluing with epoxy, backing up on the inside with grp matting and resin and filling on the outside with polyester filler, finally sanding and sealing with sanding sealer.
But I get ahead of myself, with this as I have as yet, only curt out the ply keels and transfered them to the draughting paper for screen printing, and drilled for the pins. that process will be done on all three boats tomorrow.