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[Talisman]

An interesting link -

http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/pages/boathelp.htm

[nhp651]

I have been reading this thread with interest can you tell me though
What is a "sonic sander"  and give more information please

thanks

Colin

Hi Colin.....this is the beasty.......comes with a wodge of tungsten and diamond tipped blades as well as scrapers, saw blades and has a multiple of uses......but my god, it rips through grp like butter......I am very impressed with it.....best thing I've bought in yonks.
neil.

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/power-tools/sawing/multi-purpose-saws/multi_purpose_saws/Worx-SoniCrafter-250W-Oscillating-Tool-11097504?ecamp=cse_go&tmcampid=4&tmad=c&CAWELAID=656841553

[gingyer]

Thanks Neil
Will be looking to get one of those

Colin

[nhp651]

they are a nice bit o' kit, colin

[RaaArtyGunner]

Hi Colin.....this is the beasty.......comes with a wodge of tungsten and diamond tipped blades as well as scrapers, saw blades and has a multiple of uses......but my god, it rips through grp like butter......I am very impressed with it.....best thing I've bought in yonks.
neil.

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/power-tools/sawing/multi-purpose-saws/multi_purpose_saws/Worx-SoniCrafter-250W-Oscillating-Tool-11097504?ecamp=cse_go&tmcampid=4&tmad=c&CAWELAID=656841553

Neil,

Good video.
Impressive tool, no doubt something similar is available in OZ if not get from UK

[Netleyned]

Aldi and Lidl have there own versions from time to time at about £40 if memory serves me right

Ned

[nhp651]

they do ned, but lightweight stuff......I tend to buy as good as I can afford.

[nhp651]

the decks have now all been fitted, and I'm just waiting for the deck on the HF Bailey to cure before taking the tapes and weights off before trimming up.

the edges of the deck to bulwarks have been trimmed with a nice sharp bevelled edge chisel and then filled with polyester filler. the start has been made to trim around the cockpit accesses and one one of the shots can be seen a scrap piece of 1.8mm ply that acts as a support for the two pieces of the deck ( port and starboard pieces) to mate up to each other without any sagging of either side.

But the thing that always every time gets to me about a classic lifeboat is the beautiful sheerline of the bulwarks top from bow to stern.....such a gracefull and yet business like and powerfull shape to them..and these three are no exception.

To me they are far more graceful than the modern fast afloat boats, and although not as powerful, fast or safe to be in..they still went out in the same dreadfully awful and pitiless seas that the modern boats with all their protection can muster, to do one thing...and that was to put their own lives on a knife edge to save others.........and it gives me unbelievable pride to be able to re create models of these boats for pleasure.

The whole of each boat will now be sanded and got ready for a few coats of paint.

neil.

[furball]

But the thing that always every time gets to me about a classic lifeboat is the beautiful sheerline of the bulwarks top from bow to stern.....such a gracefull and yet business like and powerfull shape to them..and these three are no exception.

My son thought this quote might be appropriate:

'It is a noble service which a life boat is intended for, so the design ought to convey a sense of dignity and power, also it should be pleasing to look at, with beauty of proportions and form, and even colour' - J.R. Barnett, 1933

Lance

[nhp651]

I couldn't sum it up half as well, Lance.

neil.

[Norseman]

The whole of each boat will now be sanded and got ready for a few coats of paint.

Hi Neil

You said to pipe up where needed - so very briefly for newbies like me - what is your process pre that first undercoat.
Sorry if it seems obvious to everyone but if I can get it right the first time then I will do so everytime.
Plus I have just removed the old paint from a hull (the undercoat could have protected a space shuttle).

Dave

[RaaArtyGunner]

Neil,

In the photo with the ply reinforcing the butt joint, would it be any advantage to make the "reinforcing" piece full length and glue it at each end.
It would increase joint strength and stiffness.

[nhp651]

Hi Neil

You said to pipe up where needed - so very briefly for newbies like me - what is your process pre that first undercoat.
Sorry if it seems obvious to everyone but if I can get it right the first time then I will do so everytime.
Plus I have just removed the old paint from a hull (the undercoat could have protected a space shuttle).

Dave

I'll be using 120 grit to get rid of all the filler first, Dave , and then gradually work down with wet and dry through 240, 400 and 800 grade to get the hull smooth..then I'll give it a couple of coats of filler primer ( goes on orange) and rub down again, then onto grey primer which will show up any irregularities and scratches, fill with filler putty, and rub down again, before spraying with Glacier white.....it's a slightly off creamy white that the older boats were painted in, or green anti fouling as per Mary Stanford, and finally the blue....not Ford galaxy blue as in the modern boats, but a lighter blue and just at the mo. I forget the exact colour but have it written down.. the top coats I'll just give coats until I have the deapth of colour I want.
others will have their own way of painting/spraying, and I cannot comment on what others do, but that process is not my favorite, but it has to be done, lol.

[nhp651]

Neil,

In the photo with the ply reinforcing the butt joint, would it be any advantage to make the "reinforcing" piece full length and glue it at each end.
It would increase joint strength and stiffness.

I should have done, and god knows why I didn't. (bit of a brain freeze really at the moment in time),  but the only saving grace in this is that when the printed planked deck overlays are glued to the decks there will be a centre "king plank" running down the centre of the boat, about 15 mm wide, which the two sides of the deck will butt up to, and this will glue and hold the two butted joints of the main deck together and lie on top of the joint making it totally watertight. It will also elliviate that problem that someone mentioned a few days ago about how you get a sheet of ply to bend in two different directions at the same time...you don't without difficulty.

[Norseman]

Sorry Neil

I should have stated wood prep - but I see you will use printed planked deck overlays

Dave

[nhp651]

sorry, Dave.....only the outer surface will be prepped.several layers of sanding sealer before the printed deck goes on and then the printed deck will be given a coat of stain to match the colours of the decks that I have from the photos of the actual boats.then will give a couple of coats of clear satin varnish.
neil.

[nhp651]

today, I spent most of the day cleaning up all the decks and sanding them



Then I trimmed the main decks around the cockpits on all three boats as well as making supports to fit under the cockpit main/sub deck assemblies so that I can eventually have some substance thick enough to glue the combings too, to hold the cabins in place.



Each boat different, needed a different solution to the problem...........oh the brain aches this evening. lol.

I also filled any gaps between the tops of the cockpit walls and the underside of the sub decks for a neat finish eventually.

[nhp651]

Now that the combing supports under deck have been fitted, the actual combings for each boat can be cut out and fitted.

These are an integral part of keeping the inside of the boat clear from water, and also for holding the superstructure in place.

Although a little more complicated than most scale craft they are only what anyone would put onto their trawler, cabin cruiser, warship or even  a modern lifeboat to keep the superstructure in place and to stop water getting under that superstructure into the electrics, and as such are  constructed in sections to fit the aquired boat like any set of combings. this set shown are for the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts which has a combination of two cabins virtually adjoining each other.

They were made from a combination of 6mm ply in two layers for the bow combing and for the mid and rear sections a combination of 1.8mm ply cut with the grain for the straight pieces and across the grain at the stern end of the rear cockpit to facilitate ease of bending around the arched stern piece.

[nhp651]

And here are the two cockpits for the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, fitting snugly over the combings.....just have to trim them up now to fit the deck nicely.

[nhp651]

the second lifeboat, the H F Bailey was again, not following the rules of fair play.

the aft cockpit behind the engine room bulkhead was reasonably straight forward with just the bending of the ply onto the rear wall, which was again facilitated easily by using a cut of the 1.8mm ply across the grain of the sheet .

However the foreward part of the rear cabin assembly was not as easy.

because of the slope of the forward engine casing sides, verticla combings would not be an option. So I used two lengths of Obeche timber and sloped a section of this timber to the slope of the engine casing side, leaving a flat flange to but upto the side where the combing wuld normally glue to. I then cut and shaped a piece, labelling it and put it in the box of "odd bits" that will be eventually machined as pieces to put in the kit, and therefore as a pattern for the pieces used, can be copied and manufactured, for ease for the builder.

The front face of this combing could then be made as a normal virtical piece from 3mm ply.

Finally the two curved pieces of 1.8mm ply just forward of the engine room bulkhead were, again made from 1.8mm ply and glued and pinned to the wall of the access hole.

Luckuly, the forward cabin on each of the two boats H F Bailey and Mary Stanford are fixed and therefore don't need combings fitted.

[nhp651]

the final set of combings for the Mary Stanford were put together today.

But before these were made, the cabins were made to fit the sheer of the deck so that the height of the combing above deck could be worked out.

I used my trusty pencil guage to do this. Flatten one face of a short piece of pencil so that it slides around the deck without moving. Then put each piece of superstructure onto the deck in place.You will see gaps between the deck and cabin bottom. Slide the pencil around the cabin (at right angles to the cabin at all times) making a mark on the cabin. This line will be parallel to the deck that it has slid along, and you can now file down to that line. You Might need to do it a second time if the undulations in the cabin base are deeper than the height of the pencil tip from the deck. Repeat the process until the base of the cabin fits nicely without gaps onto the deck.

The rear combings were fitted in exactly the same way as par other two boats, using the cross grain of the timber to make it pliable around the curvature of the stern cockpit wall,finishing the sides with ply cut longitudinally with the grain of the ply.

The fore part of the aft cabin, i.e. the engine casing is just a matter of fitting a normal rectangular set of combings to the long and cross beams of the support structure, and then padding out to make the engine casing a tight but easily removable casing.However I had forgotten to put in the rear deck plate from 6mm ply which then gives support to the full length of the engine casing structure. The fore and aft walls of the access hole also need to be given an extra 6mm thickness to give the combing wall some surface area to glue too. Finally short lengths of 6mm square sprue is glued into the inner four corners of the access area to strengthen the bond of the corners between the combing walls.

The aft cockpit and the engine casing will be left as two seperate units.

The fore cockpit will be fixed and as such doesn't need combings fitting.

[nhp651]

The cabins for the two Watsons were also fitted this morning, using the same pencil guage to get the cabin bases fitting exactly to the sheer line of the deck.
The engine casing of the HF Bailey and the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts caused a little problem, as (when I moulded it some years ago, rather heavily I must add) the inside corners of the engine casing were rather "rounded" with a goodly use of resin and mat and so the combings on the deck had to be rounded to accomodate this minor hickup........but hey!?.............that's modelling, and little faults  and tribulations with hand made kits will always occur, and certainly doesn't hopefully detract from the overall kit.

Also the engine room bulkhead on both the two watsons had to be sanded down on the top and side edges as the cockpit bases lost a little from the bottom line of grp. This compensated that loss and allowed the cockpit to sit nicely onto the deck.
Perhaps if it does, those modellers should stick to Airfix/Revelle plastic models!

Once fitted it was time to cut out the openings into the cockpits.

To do this, the rims of the cockpit openings were first marked with a pencil line 4mm from the outside edge and then masked off with masking tape to stop the drill bit from straying and sliding across the grp.

The forward cabin of the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts is in fact using (as it is almost exactly the same shape as the rear cockpit on the Anne Letitia Russell......another kit in the range from metcalf Mouldings) a cockpit from the aforementioned kit, but needs to be cut and modified, which was done this morning.

Not one for using a saw on grp, I drilled the perimeter of the opening on the inside of the line, and then using the side of the drill bit............the flukes, I reamed out the waste grp to form the opening.

This then revealed the cockpit edge as a jagged strip, which will be filed to the masked line for a smooth edge.

[nhp651]

And now, just as a little side line, after working on three hulls/cabins altogether, which can get monotonous at times I decided to get on with a little job that I'd been putting off for a while...not because I didn't want to do it......I enjoy laithe work, but just because it was probably the last fitting that I needed to make, one that I had forgotten I needed, and one which needs moulding in rubber ( a sometimes messy job) and then casting in resin.....and this is the bummer...........I've run out of polyurethane resin and would have to order some, forr a little job, knowing that I probably won't need to use it any more than once, and once open it has a lousy shelf life.....oh well...........just bite the bullet and order a teeny amount.

So what is the fitting ...............it's a pillar and base to hold the forward/reverse wheel for the Field marshall and Mrs Smuts....the other two boats, and the Anne Letitia Russel and the liverpool class lifeboat all have them mounted on the engine room bulkhead on a consol....the FM has them on pillars in the open forward cockpit.

The wheel atop the  pillar is generic with the other boats, so I just needed to turn the pillar and the collar base from brass on my trusty ML7.

Then I mounted them in plastecine in a lego box and poured the first half the mould with RTV30 rubber.......I'll pour the other half tomorrow.............but get this folks.
When you put the second layer of rubber onto the first, you first normally spray the hardened rubber with a release agent wax...........I ran out a couple of months ago, so rang Tiranti's of Reading where I normally get my supplies of rubber and asked for them to send me a new can of spray release agent................"sorry we can't" said Tiranti's......" because of the new laws on  conveying spray cans, we can't send the cans any more".........is this HSE gone mad or what???

[nhp651]

and I have now just removed the plastecine from the mould to reveal the first half of the rubber nicely taken and ready for the second half.........I will use vaseline as a release barrier before pouring the second half of the rubber mould in tomorrow.

[furball]

Have you got some sorry of gadget for turning tapers like that Neil, or are you just doing it by eye?


Lance

[nhp651]

Hi Lance......yes, I just set the tool head up to the angle I need, marked on the base of the tool head in degrees and off I go.

you can see the tool head set at an angle in the first shot, but not the markings for the angles of cut.

It's an old machine, but a good solid one, that sadly I don't use to it's full potential.
neil.

[furball]

I'll have to see if I can make something up for mine (1920's 3 1/2" Drummond M).

Cheers

Lance

[Mk1]

Hi there is a slide for a drummond on ebay in Laths section that I think has degree makings on it mine has

John

[HS93]

this is what it Could look like my older one,(can I come and clean yours lathe that is)

good interesting build Neil keep it going , by the way dont you get any days off ?

peter

[nhp651]

don't keep showing me that, Peter.....makes me feel very inadequate


you can come and clean my laithe any time,
and thanks for the accolade of the build.coming from you, that means a great deal, especially after seeing your beautiful models.
neil.

[Norseman]

Hey Peter

Have you got a special setting on your new camera?
A Swarf Stealth mode perhaps? 

Dave

[nhp651]

And here is my assistant, (13 tomorrow and don't we knowt it......she's been counting down for weeks) splitting the two halves of the mould.....the vaseline worked very well as a release agent, I am happy to say, and the two halves came apart easily., and the second shot os the two halves to the mould ready for cutting and channeling to allow the resin to flow.
the final shot is just for vanity..I cleaned the boat up today, sanding down the hull and bilge skegs, and whilst I was waiting for something or other, ( can't remember now what) I put a couple of fittings and the cabins onto the hull........ahhh what inspiration.

[irishcarguy]

Peter your lathe is disgusting, nothing should be that clean. Neil you are a very talented man, I am enjoying this build & learning a lot too, I just have to come over & visit, so much happens with model boats in U/K. PS - Peter I was just kidding of course, thats how your lathe should look. Neil, now that your daughter is 13 have you bought the shotgun yet ?. Mick B.

[nhp651]

I woudn't be safe with a pop gun, never mind a shotgun

[chris gillespie]

Nice work, thanks for the link.

learning the whole time, combings sheer lines its all good. I had in my mind that the bow deck would be similar to what you have done, i also plan to go down below if i can and have a miniature engine room. If it wasnt for this fact i would have no issue with combings and opening my scuppers. But you have given me the direction to give it a go, if i cant make it work ill seal them up lol

man that is some lathe aswell...... what i could do with that lol