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Author Topic: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.  (Read 39061 times)

richtea

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #280 on: February 21, 2012, 08:14:58 PM »
Varnishing is an art in itself, Neil,
looking forwards to the rest of this superb 3 boat build.
Regards
Richard  :-))
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #281 on: February 21, 2012, 09:00:21 PM »
Varnishing and french polishing I can do, Richard...........had plenty of practise doing that as a teacher of woodwork for many a year.............I love bringing out the colours of the grain.....it's the covering up of the natural stuff that I loose patience with, lol

thanks for the comments.
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #282 on: February 21, 2012, 10:17:45 PM »
today's job, after clearing a little space for working on the 3 boats was to seal the kickboards with cellulose sanding sealer.....3 coats were given and then rubbed down with fine grade wire wool.

Finally I painted them with humbrol enamels.the mary Stanford and the field Marshall and Mrs Smuts were painted a light shade of matt brown tan. (which will be given a coat of satin varnish later)......whilst the H F Bailey boards were painted in a mid satin grey.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:19:33 PM by nhp651 »
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heritorasphodel

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #283 on: February 21, 2012, 11:43:55 PM »
Are you sure that the Mary Stanford's and the FM and MS's toeboards were painted? On all the boats I've seen they were simply varnished. I suppose that these may be exceptions  {:-{

Andrew
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #284 on: February 22, 2012, 08:29:23 AM »
yes,andrew...

here's H F Bailey, Mary Stanford in pics......the grey on H F Bailey is plain to see.
the brown on the Mary Stanford comes out red on the bow shot, and faded brownis red over varnish on the two starboard shots of her with the cabin that was added when the Irish harbour board added their touches.

However on the fabulous painting by Tim Thompson of her rescue of the crew from the Daunt Rock lightship in 1936 ( and Tim Thompson was renown for his extensive research, he has painted the kickboards grey).

And finally I had a conversation with an old gentleman in a rest home on Angelsey a few weeks ago who was mechanic and Second coxs'n of Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts when she served at Beaumaris from 1946/47 until sent to the reserve fleet who told me that the kickboards on her were painted a light brown........he had in fact painted them, lol

So I feel justified in painting them that colour. I know that a lot were varnished, the Anne Lettitia Russell was definately varnished, but I try to strive for authenticity on a certain date in history, and may even paint the MS grey rather than red/brown.....haven't made up my mind yet.
Hope this clears up a little ambiguity for you and others.
neil..
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #285 on: February 22, 2012, 08:32:04 AM »
In fact, having looked closer to the bow shots of the Mary Stanford, you can plainly see the under paint of the reddishbrown is grey......so think I'll change that this morning.
Also, the anti fouling on the Mary Stanford will be painted green, to represent the green lead used at period in time of 1936, rather than the red shown in these shots.
neil.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 08:33:42 AM by nhp651 »
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #286 on: February 22, 2012, 09:01:30 AM »
also whilst I was looking at the paint drying........very theraputic and avoids boredom, I dug out some pieces that I had made some time ago for the boats to see if they were still there and not lost.........luckily I had made double sets for both the watson and the Barnett class boats, and as the watson has changed in design for the second boat somewhat, I was lucky in that I had only lost one piece which was nort needed on the second boat.......the pieces........oh yes..........the timber gratings for the bottom of the floor for the well decks.

The original 5mm square grating was made as an A4 sheet for me by a mate in his woodworking shop where he had access to a radial arm cross cut saw.we riged a jig to lock into each spur in turn to make the grating "teath" (The crossed halving joints that make up the joints) absolutely square and interlocking into the cross members. It was a fete of woodworking and took hours to cut..........we used Obeche to make it, and I was going to use it on a 1:12 scale model of the Duke of Northumberland water jet drive lifeboat of 1886 vintage.

However after producing a mould and a hull for the boat about 18 years ago I lost interest and my mate dumped the mould and moulding, so the only thing that ever got made for that lifeboat was the grating.......so it came in very usefull for the new boats, being the same scale.

I cut sections off the A4 sheet and then edged it with some mahogany "L" shaped banding that I made, also from two pieces of timber.

the smaller section gratings are for another section of the boat and were bought from an ebay supplier.

They will eventually be varnished with a gloss finish ( possibly satin.............yet to decide).
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heritorasphodel

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #287 on: February 22, 2012, 04:19:23 PM »
Yeah, that's definitely cleared it up. Cheers   :-)

Andrew
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #288 on: February 22, 2012, 08:40:06 PM »
No problems Andrew.
glad to help.
neil.
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furball

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #289 on: February 22, 2012, 08:57:47 PM »
The problem is, of course, that there are very few contemporary colour pictures of the old boats and it can be difficult to judge colour from old orthochromatic black and white film which was very insensitive to blue.

Also, in the '60s a lot of varnished wood was painted over. There's a story we've heard of the mechanic of a Liverpool crying into his beer after his boat went off to refit with a highly polished mahogany canopy, and came back with a few coats of orange paint on it.

(I'm typing this on hear rather than just talking to Andrew, who is no. 2 son, and is sitting about 2 feet away from me as I type this...and it's time for him to make a cuppa!  )

 {-)

Lance
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #290 on: February 22, 2012, 09:12:16 PM »
Quote from: furball on February 22, 2012, 08:57:47 PM
Also, in the '60s a lot of varnished wood was painted over. There's a story we've heard of the mechanic of a Liverpool crying into his beer after his boat went off to refit with a highly polished mahogany canopy, and came back with a few coats of orange paint on it.
Lance
I can imagine his language on seeing her coming back home......anglo saxon would not really describe it, lol

I used to chat with the old mechanic of Fleetwood's Watson...........and after a service or practice he would prop the scupper flaps open with matchsticks to let the air through to avoid rot and such.........an area inspector paid an impromptu visit one morning to the boat house and enquired rather hoitily as to what the matchsticks were for.Old 'Drew explained in his broad Scottish accent and told the inspector that they washed out as soon as she hit the water at the end of the slip..........to which he ( the inspector ) virtually accused the mechanic of lying to him, and ordered an immediate launch.
Drew had the maroon fired for standby, the crew all dropped tools from their jobs and raced to the boat house to be told by the inspector that he had ordered the launch ion order to prove that the mechanic was talking b******.......

45 minutes later he left the station with a flee in his ear and egg on his face.....but not before he'd gone round every scupper flap and checked that there weren't any matchsticks left inside the scupper tunnels..........

they certainly knew how to wind up crews in those days.
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heritorasphodel

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #291 on: February 22, 2012, 09:13:09 PM »
One has no choice but to be a lifeboat anorak when one has a Furball for a father  :}

Andrew
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #292 on: February 22, 2012, 09:18:55 PM »
 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)............that's no way to talk about your dad.....................

You sound like my daughters....always giving me grief....... {:-{ <:( <:( <:( <:(

get him to build you a model ....................that'll keep him busy, lol O0 O0 O0 O0 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

and nice to hear from you......but I  still can't work out your name on mayhem :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #293 on: February 22, 2012, 09:30:58 PM »
Lance........I'm going to be down in kent the first week in April for a break.............do you know which lifeboat "museum" the old barnett, stromness class model is in that Brian King restored in an article in Model Boats some years ago

I'd like to visit and take a few shots of her.............it is on the south coast, either in kent or East Sussex.
if you or anyone else know, could they please let me know.
cheers, neil.
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furball

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #294 on: February 22, 2012, 09:54:26 PM »
It is (or was last year) in the life boat museum in Eastbourne. I'm sure that they used to have a website, and you could see it in the photos, but the place has just been refurbished and I can't find the site anymore - it might be worth giving them a ring to see if it's still on display. They also had, at one point, the other model made by C.J. Cavell, who was the Walmer mechanic, of the old Walmer boat, but the last time I saw this it was in storage at Pool in a terrible state.

The Barnett model might be labelled up as 'J.J.K.S.W.', but it's actually of 'The Rankin' as it was the only 51 footer in this configuration.

Andrew's building his own boats. The Thurso 47' Watson, Pentland, is sitting nearly complete on the coffee table in front of us. I'm sure he'll post some pictures at some point.

Lance
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #295 on: February 22, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »
Just a guess Neil  http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Heritor_Asphodel  ;D
I've never played any games though.

Dave
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heritorasphodel

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #296 on: February 22, 2012, 10:04:30 PM »
Got it in one  :-)

I read the books a few years ago, and the name sort of stuck  :-)

Andrew
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #297 on: February 22, 2012, 10:16:48 PM »
thanks Lance.....Will give then a ring nearer the time.

well Andrew........I'd never have guessed in a million years, and thanks for the link, Dave....will have a look at that.
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #298 on: February 22, 2012, 11:16:40 PM »
Just a point that you mentioned, Lance..............what was the difference between the Rankin and all the other Barnetts of that class...........would be very interested to know. :-))
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #299 on: February 23, 2012, 08:32:59 AM »
well, I stripped the masking tape off the decks last night and found I'd dropped a b*****s with one section of one of the boats.........I'd not masked it up properly and it had left a small area not painted that should have been, so had to re mask and spray again....after a couple of hours and a quick colour wash job it had blended in with the other areas that had been painted and didn't look too bad, although there was a join line.........I can cover that on the model with a couple of hanks of rope..........so all was not lost.
Also I found that there had been very little weepage under the masking tape of the very thin paint wash and this was soon scraped off to leave clean edged.

I had repainted the kick boards for the Mary Stanford to grey earlier in the day and had  then painted some fairleads in antique bronze and a full 3 sets of kick board brackets in grey.
To end off the day's work I made a mould from 3 old grab rails I had made out of room temperature vulcanising rubber, plastecine and Lego building blocks which I will eventually cast for deck fittings for the Mary Stanford and H F bailey.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 08:37:49 AM by nhp651 »
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #300 on: February 23, 2012, 08:34:08 AM »
well, I stripped the masking tape off the decks last night and found I'd dropped a b*****s with one section of one of the boats.........I'd not masked it up properly and it had left a small area not painted that should have been, so had to re mask and spray again....after a couple of hours and a quick colour wash job it had blended in with the other areas that had been painted and didn't look too bad, although there was a join line.........I can cover that on the model with a couple of hanks of rope..........so all was not lost.
Also I found that there had been very little weepage under the masking tape of the very thin paint wash and this was soon scraped off to leave clean edged.

I had repainted the kick boards for the Mary Stanford to grey earlier in the day and had  then painted some fairleads in antique bronze and a full 3 sets of kick board brackets in grey.
To end off the day's work I made a mould from 3 old grab rails I had made out of room temperature vulcanising rubber, plastecine and Lego building blocks which I will eventually cast for deck fittings for the mary Stanford and H F bailey.
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heritorasphodel

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #301 on: February 23, 2012, 06:10:20 PM »
Quote from: nhp651 on February 22, 2012, 11:16:40 PM
Just a point that you mentioned, Lance..............what was the difference between the Rankin and all the other Barnetts of that class...........would be very interested to know. :-))
neil.

I think I can answer this one. (Dad speaks a lot of it)  :-)
Rankin had an internal rudder, similar to the one on the H. F. Bailey, so the rudder gearbox was further forward than it was on the other boats of the class.
The engine bulkhead was a single piece and was angled, like the later boats, and it never had the breakwater by the forward shelter, so the front of it was semicircular. On the aft shelter, it didn't have the single piece windscreen so the shelter was extended aft slightly, as it had the frame for a three piece windscreen. (but it only had a small square screen on the front section).

And finally I think I'm right in saying that all the previous boats had relieving tubes to get rid of the water through the bottom of the hull, while the two last boats (Rankin and Southern Africa) had scuppers in the sides of the hull instead.

I think Furball put up a couple of photos on his thread, including one of Cavell's model. If I've missed anything else I'm sure he'll correct me  :-))

Andrew
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #302 on: February 23, 2012, 06:30:20 PM »
thanks andrew.very interesting indeed.............I knew at least one boat had the rudder in the deadwood...............but didn't realise which boat it was.
cheers for the info.
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #303 on: February 23, 2012, 09:40:00 PM »
Seem to have made one step forward and two steps back today.

I made a set of moulds yesterday for making some grab rails for the deck, but for some unknown reason ( and I've never had it happen before) the both halves set (at different times) with humps in the centres of the mould........so that when I sandwich them between two pieces of ply the outer edges of the moulds don't clamp up properly and they weep any resin that is poured into the moulds.
So I have had to make the boxes again to fit the mould halves and tomorrow I'll mix some rubber and catylist and pour the rubber into the moulding box, and then place one half at a time over that rubber.......this will then give me some "flat"  surfaces that when sandwiched between the ply backing sheets will give equal pressure all around the mould.
But that wasn't the end of the story..........I bought on line some Polyurethane quick set resin a few weeks ago.
now this stuff is supposed (as I have always found in the past when casting) to remain subtle and not crack or shatter, and is actually carvable even when months old and fully cured.
Well this pack of stuff that I bought from a new supplier ( to me...They've been around some time though) is possibly a bad batch, as the resin shatters even when splitting the two haves of the mould.........it is more brittle than polyester grp resin........

so hopefully the company will be able to give me some hints as to what is wrong with the stuff when I phone them tomorrow....don't know what's wrong with it though.......not the norm as far as I know from past experience.

but at least I managed to get all the kick boards fitted this afternoon...which, after the disappointment of the moulds and resin cheered me up a little ..ggrrrrrr {:-{ {:-{ {:-{

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:43:19 PM by nhp651 »
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #304 on: February 23, 2012, 11:02:26 PM »
anyway, apart from that little debacle.....I at least managed to get some building done and put the kickboards and brackets on to all three boats today, so a litttle detailing has taken place.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #305 on: February 24, 2012, 09:44:10 AM »
Sorry Gentlemen,

I've accidentally deleted some photos, please can you repost them and I'll move back to the right place.    :embarrassed:
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"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"   -  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/

nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #306 on: February 24, 2012, 10:50:19 AM »
no probs martin, will repost it when the repairs to my mould are finished, lol.in the meantime........a thanks are needed.

Well Guys, many thanks for all your help and advice about the polyurethane resin which I also spoke about on this topic..
the problem is now sorted.
I rang East Coast glass fibre supplies this morning and spoke to the technical advisor called Martin......and he couldn't have been more helpfull and apologetic for my dilhema and totally understood what I was trying to do..........in their defence the technical data sheet says that the minimum thickness for a mould is 3mm, and I was trying to mould 4mm thickness so was right on the edge.
Martin agreed with me that the resin was not suitable for what I was wanting to do, and as such said that if I reurned the twin pack of resin to him he would give me a full refund for the product, even though I had opened the tins and used a little.

I CANNOT ASK FOR BETTER SERVICE THAN THAT, and my thanks and praise go out to East coast fibreglass supplies....many thanks.
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #307 on: February 24, 2012, 12:51:49 PM »
after sorting out my resin and rectifying my mould( I hope so anyway), I spent an hour cleaning up the "gobeye" faileads on all three boats....all a little different, and this one in the picture has a roller set outside similar to the old Anne Letitia Russell.
Also added the bracket to hold the rope fender in place.

The photo behind is from the bow of the H F Bailey.

Now a question for the Judges at show level
If I were to enter these models in show I would put them in scratch section.
However some would say that some of the fittings were from the kit Anne Letitia Russell.......correct I say, but as I designed these fittings years ago, and are from a stock that I had set behind to give future lifeboats some detail...........would they be classed as scratch or part kit........

I'd like to see what judges like Colin Bishop have to say on this matter.................as we all know what people think about putting commercial fittings on "scratch build" models in a show..........
just interested.
neil.
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #308 on: February 24, 2012, 07:20:42 PM »
I have never known one single mould cause me so much hassle and bother..........firstly as I said in a previous posting yesterday, the mould for the hand rails came out with a hump on each reverse side (i.e. the back of both halves.)

and when I tried clamping together the outer edges sprang open..the only way to correct these was to make a box for each half...lay some rubber into the bottom of the boxes and them lay each half back into the box with the back face making contact with the new rubber............and no release agent between the new rubber and the mould..........the idea being thet the new rubber would adhere to the old mould...........normally without rubber this would happen..............not with this mould for some reason.
firstly the rubber, which had set yesterday within a couple of hours...............took the heat from the radiator all day to go off...........and then when I took the lego away from the newly "repaired" moulds, sod me if the rubber had stuck to the lego but not to the old mould...........I just can't believe that the same rubber from the same tin, with the same amount of catylist can behave totally diferent on two separate days............
I have made hundreds of these rubber moulds over the past 20 years, and never ever have I had so many problems in such a short time.........it has stumped me..............if it don't work this time then it'll be the bin and start again.
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furball

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #309 on: February 24, 2012, 08:11:29 PM »
You made the fittings originally, so to me they're still scratch built - for you.

Lance
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #310 on: February 24, 2012, 08:24:41 PM »
Quote from: nhp651 on February 24, 2012, 07:20:42 PM
I have made hundreds of these rubber moulds over the past 20 years, and never ever have I had so many problems

 {-) Have you considered you might just be losing your marbles mate %% %% %% {-)

and I agree with Lance - when you use them they are scratch built - can't be anything else.

Dave
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nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #311 on: February 24, 2012, 08:26:50 PM »
Quote from: Norseman on February 24, 2012, 08:24:41 PM
{-) Have you considered you might just be losing your marbles mate %% %% %% {-)

and I agree with Lance - when you use them they are scratch built - can't be anything else.

Dave
I would agree with you guys........but would a judge???
as for losing my marbles..........think I lost them years ago when I got married, {-) {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %%
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irishcarguy

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #312 on: February 25, 2012, 09:06:23 AM »
Hi Neil, there are rumours about that you never had any marbles to start with. LOL. Mick B.
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Mick B.

nhp651

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #313 on: February 25, 2012, 10:22:12 AM »
Thankyou for those words of support matey....... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

I'll have that put on my headstone, %% %% %%
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Norseman

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Re: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit.
« Reply #314 on: February 25, 2012, 12:50:43 PM »
Will that be scratchbuilt?

Dave
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