Topic: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit. (Read 38976 times)

nhp651 · « **Reply #385 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:41:54 PM »

Quote from: heritorasphodel on March 13, 2012, 09:55:47 PM

the aft all the way across.
Andrew

you're right about the aft cabins though, and these are a doddle because there is a ridge running down each cabin which demarkates the top from the sides, although the sides on the aft cabins are planked, and not sheets, judging by the photos available.

cheers for that matey.......most helpfull.
neil.

heritorasphodel · « **Reply #386 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:56:18 PM »

No problem. Always happy to help

Andrew

Neil · « **Reply #387 on:** March 20, 2012, 07:42:48 AM »

Thanks to the mods team and especially Martin and the guys.....in the immortal words of Jack Nicholson.........I'M BAA-AAACCCKKKK

Mind you I fancied calling myself Mary Staford just to confuse,

Neil · « **Reply #388 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:19:01 AM »

so! back to the build, and a little catch up, lol.

well, I wasn't happy with the cladding I put on the other day and stripped it all off.......that and the fact that Andrew, quite rightly pointed out that I had clad the cabin of Mary Stanford wrongly...........

Anyway..........I set about cutting and gluing on to the aft edges of the open cockpits, the cladding strips in 1.8 mm ply today.......now, that seamed to go a lot better than yesterday, and the cr***y painting is now just a long past minor irritation.

I also made the raised cockpit surround for the fore cockpit of the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts to take the fold down windshield to protect the helmsman/coxs'n.

Finally I fitted the funnels to the H F Bailey and FieldMarshal boats....I marked them out, drilled the perimeter of the hole to be cut out, and then reamed out with the side of the drill bit, before sanding smooth to take the funnel. Note the only funnel to have a capping of the three boats is the Field Marshal....this was made as a master from milliput and then moulded. in polyurethane resin from a rubber mould.

Neil · « **Reply #389 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:23:55 AM »

Funnel fitting

Neil · « **Reply #390 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:31:01 AM »

It's the little things that take the time to make and adorn the model with......

today I cut and glued extra cappingsa on to the cabins, sanding them down when set.........also made two sets of locker doors for the fore bulkheads of the H F Bailey and Mary Stanford front well decks.

Those I made from plasticard and brass handles.

I'll post more of the catch up later.

Neil · « **Reply #391 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:40:41 AM »

Now getting closer to the point where I will be cladding the cockpits with their Paper simulated wooden planking.

Have today put on to the cabins the knuckes where the tops meet the sides...these were made from 2.. card and glued with cyano.

They will then be painted and the planks lain upto them for a clean finish.

On the actual lifeboats these knuckles were actual strips of timber to cover the joints and stopping water inpregnating them and causing springing of the planks.

Neil · « **Reply #392 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:38:50 PM »

been doing a little work on fittings .............cutting the vent cowl shafts to length, trimming the companionway for HF Bailey, and a few more odds and ends.even painted the trimlines on the cabin sides ready for cladding..it all gets to one conclusion in the end.

Neil · « **Reply #393 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:58:54 PM »

I was at a bit of a crossroads in the builds the other day, and couldn't really concentrate too hard on the next full on part of the build......the cladding of the cockpits with printed paper planks................ or something else.................I had already repainted the insides of the cockpits with a single pot of Humbrol, making sure that they would all come out one shade of teakbrown colour, so I sat and fiddled a bit whilst I was watching a none decript first formula 1 gp of the season............wish I hadn't now as there were more highlights left out by BBC than actually in the high lights prog..........reminds me of a time back in Canberra Australia when I was watching the "highlights" of an FA cup final match from the UK...watched it avidly for about an hour with a total lack of goals in the game....when at the finish and the chaps came on to talk about the game.......the talked about a goal packed match where one team beat the other 2 : 1......the dingbats at the ozzy TV company had edited out the 3 b**** goals, lol...........anyway back to the lifeboats.

I diddled and doodled today and fitted the fore cabin mast tabernacle with locating pins so it won't slide down the face of the cockpit whilst setting later.
the shot with the cabin and the two squares and steel rule was my method of finding centre on a curved cabin top............

I also cut the timbers for the mast bases that fit and swivel in the tabernackles, and the timbers for the large "samson" posts scattered around the decks of the lifeboats whilst trimming and sanding the base sleaves for the posts.

Finally I made up the water and oil tanks for the boats.....the oil pumps were put to brackets and fittings added to the oil tanks.

Neil · « **Reply #394 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:42:47 AM »

set too to make the three main masts yesterday...........burned them down on my laithe using course 40 grade grit paper and then smoothing off with 120 grade......then I drilled the ends of both the mast and the "weighted" balance block which makes up the end of the mast, inserted a brass pin and glued the two pieces of each mast together using epoxy adhesive.

I also cut the samson posts to length and shaped them to profile and fit into the square deck brackerts shown in a previous post.

Neil · « **Reply #395 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:15:18 PM »

20 hours spread over the past two days has seen me clad the 6 cockpits in "timber".

I tried earlier with stick on wood grain vynil, but as most of the cabins have curves within curves (best way of describing them) the vynil would not stretch and curve to follow the pattern of the cockpits and so I reverted to the easier method of using glued printed paper, as with the old Anne letita Russell boat...............the paper will "stretch" when wet with glue and is much easier to apply and cover the complex shapes of the cabins.
Also all but two of the cabins are sectional in that they have trimming strips and the planking is in specific sections and easier to lay.
On only two of the cockpits..the fore cockpits of the Mary Stanford and the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, are the two halves of the cockpit ( port and starboard sides) laid around a "king" plank whilst on all the other cockpits the planks ate laid across the top and then down the sides of the cockpits, which makes it much easier to lay.

Unlike the old ALR kit where I advocated the cutting of the planks with steel rule and craft knife.......which was a real laborious and very time and craft knife blade consuming project ( there is nothing on this earth that blunts a sharp knife blade quicker than cutting paper.........honestly). I have found a new and certainly much quicker way of cutting my paper planks accurately in a fraction of the time..................whilst packing up cushioning backs to transport my Flying Christine model to Guernsey the other day I hit on the idea..............and today I cut about 100 planks in just 60 seconds...............I fed my printed wood grain paper through my shredder........brilliant....and if I say so myself............a bl**** stroke of genious, lol.........

so below are a few shots of the process of planking the cockpits and some of the finished cabin tops...........just need to varnish them now with Ronseal water based outdoor clear varnish..............BEWARE if anyone intendes to plank their boats in a similar method........the printed paper WILL NOT withstand the onslaught of pre sealing with cellulose dope..........It has been tried and the cellulose laquer brings off the printing ink of the paper land leaves it all smeered and colourless..........from experience

rottweiler · « **Reply #396 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:28:38 PM »

you are certainly making it look easy Neil! A great idea shredding the paper,I cant do that though,as I have a cross cut shredder! The "king"plank seems to be simple doing it that way too. I used coffee stirring sticks,and ice lolly sticks ,which were steamed and glued to do my Liverpool cabin with,and lots of coats of Marine varnish.
Mick

Neil · « **Reply #397 on:** March 22, 2012, 07:57:57 AM »

the whole idea of designing a kit, Mick is to make it as easy as possible for the buyer/builder to construct.

When I first made the Anne Letitia Russell prototype, I started and tried "planking" the cabin cuddies with real timber..firstly with 1/64th ply and then very thin veneers of timbers.....both were ripped off after very poor quality finish...spent hours and hours on that part alone, in the end opting for the printed paper method.

Many modelers have, since the kit was released in 1995,tried and failed trying to plank their cabins with timber, and only a few have succeeded................those that want to take the time and say at the end of the process....i have done it as the real boat should be..........well..........erh yes to a point............but the real boats never had GRP cuddies under their wooden cabins anyway.......so purity is.............just in the eye of the builder,.............. and if paper planking makes the job easier for the majority of the kit builders then I have done my job, and using a shredder to produce those planks is even better still.

furball · « **Reply #398 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:16:18 PM »

It can be done - the problem is that the plank edges aren't parallel, as you're skinning a convex surface. It took a bit longer than you've done it in Neil.

This was a pack of veneer I picked up at a car boot sale, years ago - I've no idea what the wood is. Some is stained and some not, with about 9 coats of varnish over it.

Lance

Neil · « **Reply #399 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:07:10 PM »

Oh I know it can be done, Lance.................but you have to have a lot of patience, good knowledge of timbercraft and plenty of time, and I must admit........it does look pleasing to the eyes..........however the (and I'm not being patronising or condecending to anyone) but the idea of a kit is to make things easier for the modeller than throwing them in at the deep end.

As for the cladding............I varnished my cabins this morning with a first coat of Ronseal varnish..........it's opaque white in the tin but in 20 minutes dries to a rock hard clear ( no yellowing) finish.you can get it in gloss, satin or matt finish .

And that finish is just after one coat of the stuff......has comeup quite nicely...................It also sets rock hard and really stiffens up the paper cladding..
neil.

irishcarguy · « **Reply #400 on:** March 23, 2012, 08:10:51 AM »

What can one say bl---y brilliant, thats what. Neil the next best thing to having the forum back up & running is checking out your builds. You don't give yourself enough credit my dear friend. The amount of work output & skill you have shown here is mind boggling & that is all I can say, it has been a pleasure all the way. I should let you know too that my Tamar is sitting in Memphis at the FedEx distribution point & with luck should be here in a day or two & all the bits that will make it go whiz/bang are with it inside the box from ACTion, yes it is from MS. I could not wait any longer on the other source, it may also come yet, if it does I will still take it . Mick B.

Neil · « **Reply #401 on:** March 23, 2012, 09:49:43 AM »

you'll enjoy the build, Mick......the MS boat is a good kit......and looks beaut on the water..................glad to see you back on the forum matey.....just off out to the shed now for another coat of varnish, lol

Neil · « **Reply #402 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:53:57 AM »

first picture for today....

This is the finish on the paper strip planks that have cladded the six cockpits of the three boats.

It says on the can that after two/three coats to rub down with fine sandpaper and give another coat, but don't think I'll bother.....it's shiney enough.

This, by the way, is H F Bailey's aft cockpit.......and I believe from records that the RNLI hold was the ONLY lifeboat during wartime service to have the words LIFE-BOAT painted on her cockpit to try avoiding being straffed again by German bombers/fighters during WW2.........looks quite the part.

Apparently Henry Blogg took it upon himself,to have the words painted on her after being straffed twice by enemy aircraft.......

Neil · « **Reply #403 on:** March 23, 2012, 09:58:50 PM »

Now here's a puzzler for the classic lifeboat buffs.........and I don't know the answer, that's why I'm putting it out.

It concerns the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts, and it concerns the black pipe with some odd thing stuck on the top of it, to the starboard side of the main foreward positioned mast, and can be seen just to the left of the fourth man from the left on the bow.......it's the bit that's bracketed to the mast...............What is it, what does it do and what was it made from...........it is only to be seen as far as I can see on the Field Marshal and the sister lifeboat Henry Blogg/Millie Walton.

I contacted the old ( and he is old now) second coxs'n of the Field Marshall, and he can't remember it even being there.

Today I mocked something up in brass tube to the shape shown on the plan, which seams to disappear into the top of the cockpit when the mast is folded down, and when the mast is in the upright position it seams to point into mid space instead of sliding under the cockpit, even though the mast is pivoted correctly............so the only conclusion that I can make is that it was some sort of black rubber hose pipe..........but what is on the top of it and what was it's purpose.....and more to the point where does it go to inside the cabin when the mast is upright..............I am stumped by this one.............and it gives absolutely no clue on the plans.

I thought at first that it was a Morse signalling lamp from what it shows on the plans......but the end shown on the plans has no correlation to that in the picture...........so one scrap piece of bent brass tube.

neil.

Peewee · « **Reply #404 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:39:32 PM »

Hi Neil,
No idea, its also visible in the following picture of the cromer lifeboat http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showfull.php?photo=139997 though i am sure you already know this picture

Neil · « **Reply #405 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:59:22 PM »

cheers Ian.......... a puzzling one is that.
neil.

heritorasphodel · « **Reply #406 on:** March 24, 2012, 12:00:27 PM »

Furball and I have had a think, and we've got nowhere. At a wild guess it could just be wire trunking, like on the boats with exhaust masts, but then dad pointed out it's a little large. But there is a wire coming out of the top in at least one photo, so it's always a possibility.
We had a look at Nick Leach's book on Cromer and the photographs of Millie Walton/Henry Blogg, and we noticed that it only appears in her service at Cromer. There are photographs of her in Gorleston after a refit in '65 without it, and others of her on relief with it still missing, so it couldn't have been essential.
We'll ask around up at Chatham next time we're there, see if our collective knowledge can come up with anything.

Andrew

Neil · « **Reply #407 on:** March 24, 2012, 12:29:39 PM »

cheers Andrew......that shot of the boat above is actually of the Henry Blogg, and the plans I have are for the field marshall.......so both boats originally ha it, but the old second cox of feild Marshall cannot remember it, althopugh he can remember the colour of the engine casing....Bottle green, later changed to silver grey..........so as you say, it might have been removed, and as I'm not building her as any period, unless I can find whaT IT WAS, MAY LEAVE IT OFF.............I can't find my cromer book at the mo so can't see what it looks like without it.....so, will do a little more research and then decide.
cheers, neil.

Neil · « **Reply #408 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:47:16 PM »

decided to make that trunking with black silicon tubing.......will look for some this week.

Now down to today's progress..........

just a few small jobs the last couple of days...kept getting interupted for one thing or another....you know what wives and kids are like, lol
varnished the masts, got the Samson posts sealed with their top cappings on and began making the back rests for the helmsmen.

Neil · « **Reply #409 on:** March 26, 2012, 08:39:22 AM »

Forgot to say about the masts.......they were made in two halves.....the mast itself was spun on the laithe as previously shown, and then the trunk of it which fixes into the tabernacle was cut from Obeche' to the same "square section" timber as the outside diameter of the dowel used for the mast. the two pieces were drilled with a 3mm hole centrally and then a 2.8mm pin was glued into them and the whole thing joined up using 2 part epoxy (the excess glue can be then cut off when dry and the area of overlay on the glue will not be affected when sanding smooth and will take varnish without leaving a whitish area.)

Once set and hardened the mast can be reverse inserted into the laithe and the edge of the trunk adjoining the mast can be faired into the mast using abrasive paper.
I used water based wood stain to "mahoganyise" the masts (and although they were NOT made from mahogany on the actual lifeboats) the three that I am building seam to have that hue of colour about them...........and it looks quite nice to see some stained timber around.............my choice, my preference, and my modellers licence, lol

Neil · « **Reply #410 on:** March 27, 2012, 10:14:54 PM »

it's the little things that now take the time........been working on the sprung hatches the last couple of days inbetween looking after my two young daughters who both have ear infections.......so not much done.............but each little bit that gets put on to the boats gives them that bit more character............it'll get to the point soon when I'll need to paint them alland then stick 'em down........

heritorasphodel · « **Reply #411 on:** March 27, 2012, 11:27:44 PM »

I hate to point it out at such a late stage, but I think the windscreen frame on the H. F. Bailey is wrong. The photographs I have show it in two stages:

When she went into reserve, part of the rear canopy was filled in and she was given a single piece windscreen, which she still has today (the outline of the original cut-out in the canopy is still visible)
But when she was built she had a three piece screen, but the frame for this I think was flush to the edge of the canopy and covered the complete rear edge.

I'll try posting up a couple of photos when I get the chance tomorrow to show you what I mean.

Andrew

Neil · « **Reply #412 on:** March 28, 2012, 08:24:07 AM »

Hi Andrew, Now according to the plans, and a little tell tale strip of timber on the aft cockpit top to verify the early position, the shape was as I have done it.........however, it did have two different heights to it, and the height I should have done it too, for war time guise is about twice as high as I have actually done......which I'll rectify by adding a section later....see the photo of the cabin strip.
cheers for the input though.
neil.

Neil · « **Reply #413 on:** March 28, 2012, 09:44:29 AM »

However.....I hold my hand up here and now...........I have just noticed the biggest c***up so far on the model...........looking at the planking on the cabin top.............I have planked mine in the wrong diagonal direction.................ceste' la vie'..............I ain't going to change it now...........achieved the best varnished finish in years.........I'll only muck it up if I try doing anything now.............so, how the mighty fall, lol

really though...these builders of the old classics should have got their act together all those years ago..the fore cabin is planked in one diagonal direction and the rear cabin is planked in the other direction.......most confusing to us modellers........very inconsiderate of them,

Mind you, only me and you lot know of my mistake, plus any anorak and rivet counter that comes along............stuffs up my chance of a gold at the Engineering exhibition in January though!,

furball · « **Reply #414 on:** March 28, 2012, 10:18:37 AM »

Quote

stuffs up my chance of a gold at the Engineering exhibition in January though

Why?... I suspect you know more about them than any of the judges....

(for info, when we refurbished the canopy on BASP - which is the wrong one anyway - we replanked over the outside with 3mm mahogany, and this planking is at 90 degress to the original. Nobody knows except us!)

Lance

Neil · « **Reply #415 on:** March 28, 2012, 11:46:54 AM »

{-)glad I'm not the only one, lol.

Neil · « **Reply #416 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:57:24 PM »

Today was spent making the water tight hatch doors from 3 layers of varying thicknesses of plasticard, white metal and/or resin fittings both new and generic to Anne Letitia Russell, brass rod and a fabric paint aplicater for the rivet heads.

heritorasphodel · « **Reply #417 on:** March 28, 2012, 07:43:05 PM »

This was the photo I was talking about

Cheers,

Andrew

Neil · « **Reply #418 on:** March 28, 2012, 08:57:30 PM »

That's the one Andrew, but the frame comes well forward to the lines of that little piece of strip timber that shows on the H F Bailey as it is today at cromer......it's level with the aft stanchion of the hand rail at it's foremost point, as it shows on the plans.

Neil · « **Reply #419 on:** March 28, 2012, 09:01:20 PM »

Having read what you mean again, I now understand what you are getting at....in that the canopy top in fact took the line of the wind sheild.............not according to the plans or the cross sections that I have.......the canopy followed the line that I built it to, andrew.

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Author Topic: 3 Lifeboat builds, What goes into a model kit. (Read 38976 times)

nhp651

heritorasphodel