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[Kerrsy]

Well after due trial and tribulations I can definitely recommend the B&Q copper to copper brazing rods.
flowed a treat. Job Done.


Sorry guys web will not let me upload image goes through all the loading but no image

[gondolier88]

That's good to know Alan, thanks for going to the effort so we don't have to (no, you can't be known as Mr. Flash now!!)


Out of interest, how much has the entire amount of solder set you back for this boiler using the brazing rods?



Greg

[Kerrsy]

Hi Greg
About 6 rods one pack of four rods plus 2 from another cost £6.75.
That includes adding the small end to the next rod,

[gondolier88]

Thanks Alan, there's no arguing with prices like that.


I don't know what experimentation you have done with them, but perhaps with a small piece you could solder onto copper, let it cool naturally and then try to remelt- it would be interesting to know what it sweats like with no flux and after it's oxidised- silver solder requires a lot more energy to unsweat than it requires to run in the first place.


Greg

[Martin (Admin)]

 

[Kerrsy]

Thank you Martin for posting the picture

[southsteyne2]

Thanks so much George and others for the much wanted info on the yarrow boiler as I have searched far and wide with no real down to earth information on actually building it much appreciated
John

[hammer]

Will you be using the copper rod with flux to fix the bushes. Or will you be silver soldering them. Of course the silver has a lower melting point.

[southsteyne2]

I really admire Kerrsy skills on welding and would really like to see maybe a video to get some idea of the heat required as I would be terrified that the whole job would disintegrate after all the fabrication ,having said that I would have a go with some practice on scrap bits as it really looks a professional job
John

[ooyah/2]

I really admire Kerrsy skills on welding and would really like to see maybe a video to get some idea of the heat required as I would be terrified that the whole job would disintegrate after all the fabrication ,having said that I would have a go with some practice on scrap bits as it really looks a professional job
John

Joihn,
It's a new learning curve for me as I have always used silver solder and never considered copper to copper joint.
Alan has said that it's no more difficult than Silver solder and a big burner as you would use to Silver solder a boiler is required.
In my next boiler I will be trying the copper to copper method as the price of S/solder is now prohibitive in cost due again to the E.U.'s dictum.
So don't be afraid have a go.
George.

[Jerry C]

Intuitively I would think copper to copper would be better than silver because everything becomes as one, whereas with silver it's kind of like glueing it together but maybe at a molecular level? You've got some bottle though, I'll say that!! I'd have been on pins if I tried it. Seeing all those pipes and holes evokes memories of those guys spinning plates on sticks at the London Palladium.
Jerry.

[Kerrsy]

Gentlemen it's not that difficult, really. You can heat the copper to cheery red just as you would when you anneal it.
I'm not sure but copper melts somewhere around 1200C and the brazing rods around 750 so plenty of room for error.
Any way for £4.50 and a bit of scrap copper it's worth having a go.


As for the fitting on the top I will experiment with brass brazing (with flux) and copper to see how the brass takes to it.
I can't believe in 2012 we are still  path finding !


Look up the Go System range and you will find the Copper rods, Ali Rods and All purpose


http://www.go-system.co.uk/diy-range.html


good luck
alan


 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi There, have I missed something? What sort of flux do the copper to copper rods use, or are they pre fluxed?

[ooyah/2]

Gentlemen it's not that difficult, really. You can heat the copper to cheery red just as you would when you anneal it.
I'm not sure but copper melts somewhere around 1200C and the brazing rods around 750 so plenty of room for error.
Any way for £4.50 and a bit of scrap copper it's worth having a go.


As for the fitting on the top I will experiment with brass brazing (with flux) and copper to see how the brass takes to it.
I can't believe in 2012 we are still  path finding !


Look up the Go System range and you will find the Copper rods, Ali Rods and All purpose


http://www.go-system.co.uk/diy-range.html


good luck
alan

Alan,
I am assuming that by saying the fitting on the top is the bushes to fit safety valve and sight glass.
Don't use brass as the threads which are cut into the brass can be compromised and become very week, a slight over tightening on the fittings can strip the thread.
Use only Cast  Gun metal or Phos bronze.

I don't think in this age that we are path finding, S/Solder was quite cheap at 2 pounds for a 1.5mm x 500 mm rod and was the norm for soldering boilers, copper rods were to my knowledge unavailable from our normal suppliers but with S/solder now nearly 8 pounds a rod we are forced to try alternatives and it's good to know that copper rods are available from the likes of B&Q. and your postings are very encouraging.

George. 

[steamshed]

Hi All
Thinking back to my Refrigeration days, copper to copper joints were good with the standard rods , however brass to copper was always silver, brass didnt take very well to copper rods, on normal copper systems we use to test with OFN to around 400 psi which included brass to copper but as previously stated that joint was silver.
Mike

[irishcarguy]

I don't know enough about steam to make a comment, other than your work looks first class. I follow a lot of threads but refrain from making stupid comments unless I can add something constructive to the build. I just found your thread & will now follow it to its conclusion, so keep up the good work, more are watching than you might think, Mick B.

[irishcarguy]

Kerrsy, just to prove the point, your thread has been read nearly 2800 times, I would have to say that is a whole lot of people interested in your build, keep it going, & thanks, Mick B.

[Mad_Mike]

Dont feel disheartened kerrsy if people dont reply too much. People read them. I have just recently got into steam and i hope one day i can build a boiler as awesome as that!! Until i know what im talking about ill shut up and learn. 

[Kerrsy]

Thank you all for your comments and words of support.


Wow I've reached Canada, not far from Alaska !


Nick the rods come coated, no flux required.


Mick B. when I was a training instructor I used to tell my students that the only stupid question was the one you didn't ask.
all comments are valid unless they are rude or derogatory so please don't be put off commenting or asking questions that's what we are here for. [size=78%] [/size]
 

Yes your absolutely right George I will be using phosphor bronze although I could put a hellicoil insert in a brass one!
It will be interesting how that is brazed on but I think if all else fails I could afford one stick of silver solder as a proven alternative.


I'm having a bit of trouble since the web was upgraded in that I can't upload pictures using the upload section of the reply post.


So you will have to wait until this is fixed before I can post more pics


best wishes
Alan

[southsteyne2]

I used solid copper turned and threaded bushes in my first boiler with no problems is this considered ok in other parts of the world ?as I know is ok in Aus model boiler rules
John

[irishcarguy]

It is nice to see you back posting Alan. If you are using silver solder for the first time, two things to watch for ( among others ) have your heat correct at all times, this only comes with practice, so practice first. The #2 thing is spotless clean ( goes for most jobs & often neglected ) You will be amazed how easy it is if you keep these in mind as you work & dont rush, you are supposed to be having fun ,remember.Finally yes we are not too far from Alaska, I have been to the panhandle 6 times photographing Grizzly bears when they come into the rivers for the salmon runs & managed to drive all 2,100 Km's in one go of 20 hours on one occasion. In one 3 hour stretch we never saw another vehicle or person on the road. ( approx 300Km ). Mick B.

[Kerrsy]

Hi Mick B
What a wonderful land it must be, I can't imagine driving for 3 hrs and not seeing any one!
Yes I've been using silver solder for about 50 years it's only the expense that leads me to look else ware, but It was nice of you post advice.
alan   

[Kerrsy]

John, good question, perhaps are more experienced boiler builders could comment?


alan

[ooyah/2]

Alan & John,
There is nothing in the blue book code of practice in building model boilers in the U.K. that says you must not use copper as boiler bushes nor does it say that you can't use brass..
It does say Quote, " During construction of a boiler , the screw threads in mounting bushes can be burnt/scorched. Ensure that screw threads and their mounts are of adequate depth to maintain strength " end quote.

I have had boilers of unknown construction or vintage presented to me for testing, one with brass bushes and one with copper bushes.
The brass one had so little thread left that the safety valve I think would have let go before the valve lifted.
I refused a test.
The copper one was similar due to excessive tightening and had P.T.FE. tape wrapped around the valve to try and get a seal.
To date I have never had any problem with bushes made from Gun metal or Phos bronze so on experience alone I would never use copper or brass.
If I was to use brass or copper I would solder them in and tap them after the heating process was completed to give a good depth and clean thread, hope that this answers your questions.

Here is a pic of a Yarrow boiler that I built, I post this as a test to see if the new forum page will allow me to post pics.

George.

[hammer]

I have not seen any boilers in my part of the world with copper bushes. But I know of no reason why they could not be used. The only point is copper isn't the best metal for holding a thread. I have found silver solder flux ( tenacity or silver flow) will work with bronze, brass & copper. Posted this before I had seen your post George. So modified it . sorry no photo.